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/vr/ - Retro Games


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5715908 No.5715908 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

You could study Japanese for 4 years and be good enough to play most video games. Or you could spend decades holding a bowl out waiting for some pseudo EOP to take a dump in it with a laughably inaccurate translation. The choice is yours.

>> No.5715924

Shh, EOPs don't take kindly to being reminded about their pleb status.

>> No.5715929

>>5715908
You don't need nearly 4 years to learn enough Japanese to read a video game. You don't even need a year to read a games that's all kana.

>> No.5715932

>>5715929
I wouldn't read any all kana game at all. It's annoying.

Look at OP's screenshot. Yeah, it's easy
>聖堂の中にセベクの像がある。セベクはワニの姿をした神様で水の守り神なんだ。
but annoying.

If your studies are progressing properly, the window when reading all kana stuff is meaningful should be super small anyway.

>> No.5715947

who came up with EOP must be some fucking burger shit cause anyone else probably knows another language and chances are it aint fuckin japanese, so not only are they not EOPs they cant even read the games either.

je peux parle un petit amount du francais

>> No.5715951

>>5715947
本物の言語を学んで

>> No.5715954

>>5715951
je ne suis pas de la lune

>> No.5715957

>>5715954
全く分かんない

>> No.5715958

>>5715957
l'homme et la lune est drole

>> No.5715959

>>5715958
ah fuck i forgot the S in est so now it says the man and the moon is funny not the moon man is funny

>> No.5715961

>>5715958
あいにくこの頃フランスとアフリカの違いが無い
観光客にとってはもう安全じゃなくて特に白人の観光客です

>> No.5715962

>>5715961
i told you bro im not from the moon, and i am also technically not an EOP

>> No.5715968

>>5715908
who the fuck wants to play portopia style adventure games anyway? japanese are trash at the adventure genre that shit cant even stand up to sierras B list

>> No.5715970
File: 628 KB, 1242x631, 1562359656678.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
5715970

EOPs crowdfund this shit and smugly think they've gotten away with doing no work.

>> No.5715976
File: 100 KB, 640x480, 20180607_0ff02c.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
5715976

>>5715968
I wish they'd made more actual puzzle-solving adventure games like Doukoku and Isaku instead of this "hit every command over and over until something changes" shit.

>> No.5715982

>>5715976
that saturn game with the special ed looking dragon by enix dont remember the name actually looks really nice too for a japanese adventure game too

>> No.5715983

>>5715982
oh yeah by the Wonder Project people
Wonder Project J2 is kinda like that too

>> No.5716006

>>5715908
I wish I could but I don't even know were to start

>> No.5716008

>>5715959
that would still be 'the man is the moon is funny'

>> No.5716009

>>5716006
Hiragana, then Katakana, then the N5 grammar and vocabulary.

>> No.5716013

>>5715983
i am slightly more forgiving of the japs and their take on the adventure genre now, but still that many god damn portopia style games wtf

>> No.5716014

>>5716008
well i have forgotten the verb for that so Im a retard. as i said in the first one I only speak a little.

>> No.5716015

>>5715961
>安全じゃなくて特に白人の観光客です
安全じゃないよ
特に白人の環境客にとって

>> No.5716027
File: 36 KB, 1140x548, Capture.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
5716027

>>5716015
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. 観光客 means tourist.

>> No.5716030

>>5716015
Both wrong.
If you study for four years you can learn a decent amount but you have to have a Japanese environment which you will never get. Japanese are still improving their language skills well into adulthood. As for the one year thing, you might be able to get through the game but wont understand shit. Also not many people can commit to something for years and years. Foreigners never learn native level Japanese, because they aren't Japanese. Comprehending some games, manga, books, tv shows, newspapers etc... is even beyond the reach of Japanese who aren't highly educated.

>> No.5716031

>>5716027
Yes. My point is that your phrasing was unnatural, so I offered a better one.

...and made a stupid 変換ミス while doing so.

>> No.5716032

>>5716030
You sound like an EOP.

>> No.5716035

>>5716031
Pretty embarassing desu.

>> No.5716036

>>5716030
who cares about being fluent? Being able to play games and read manga that haven't been translated is good enough for me.

>> No.5716038

>>5716030
>As for the one year thing, you might be able to get through the game but wont understand shit.
Wrong.
>Foreigners never learn native level Japanese, because they aren't Japanese.
So?
>Comprehending some games, manga, books, tv shows, newspapers etc... is even beyond the reach of Japanese who aren't highly educated.
I guarantee that whatever video game you think is "beyond the reach of Japanese who aren't highly educated" is currently being read by some middle school student.

>> No.5716043

>>5716030
Lol. This guy >>5716038 is right.
You sound like a salty EOP that failed his studies.

>> No.5716139

I could spend that time learning piano and playing translations as they come.

>> No.5716146

>>5716139
They'll still be shit and inaccurate. I guess whether or not that's acceptable is a personal choice.

>> No.5716161

>>5716146
Oh no my translation of a children's game is inaccurate :(

>> No.5716169

>>5716161
What's up with that attitude, shitter? You might as well make up your own original plot while playing the Japanese version then.

>> No.5716173

>>5716169
>you will never understand the proper textual nuance of jrpg #56826
it hurts bros.....

>> No.5716187

>>5716173
Again, so why play it at all if you don't care about it?

>> No.5716191
File: 53 KB, 342x500, 51lfAqxGRuL.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
5716191

>>5716187

>> No.5716240

So what's the most effective way to self-learn Japanese? I've looked into formal classes, but they're only available in bigger cities over an hour away and I work.

>> No.5716265

>claims to know Japanese
>still comes to English message board to shitpost instead of spending time playing magical untranslated games or interacting with Japanese people

>> No.5716295

>>5715908
Or you could study Japanese for a few months and then start with some of the easier games and use them as a tool to help you git gud at moon

>> No.5716298

>>5716265
Because what's the point of spending years to learn a language just to play endless dragon quest clones, dating sims, and quiz games, if you aren't going to brag about it to all the people who can't? If you just wanted to learn the language for yourself, you would have. No asspats needed. And given the majority of people who also speak japanese don't consider it some amazing talent or skill, the only place you can really brag is where people don't know the language and have very little motivation to learn it.

It's first year college student syndrome, but they never grow out of it.

>> No.5716301

>>5716146
>They'll still be shit and inaccurate
And your internal translation based on kindergarten level Japanese won't be?

>> No.5716310

>>5716301
I've seen beginners get the wrong end of the stick before, but past a certain point it's actually very hard to be worse than a translation.

>> No.5716315

Aprender Japonés.
Expectativa:
>jugar juegos en japonés
Realidad:
>insultar al que no aprendió japonés, porque los juegos japoneses son una mierda
Sasuga.

>> No.5716321

>>5716169
I mean... yes? To play a game, all that matters is that the important bits (commands, menues) are translated.

The only reason what you suggest doesn't work is because our imaginary plot is imaginary and not set in stone so we can follow through our imagination. When someone translates a game, even if they pull the plot out of their ass, it is all good as long as the plot makes sense, regardless of whether it is faithful to the original or not.

It reminds me of that Legend of Localizations bit about the Final Fantasy IV translation.
>ackshtually, Kain never had a relationship with the Wind goddess
Who gives a shit?

>> No.5716323

>>5716298
>If you just wanted to learn the language for yourself, you would have. No asspats needed.
This. I don't go on Latin/Spanish forums to shit on the people asking for Spanish translations, "jaja aprendan inglés SOP". But if the English games I'm playing turned out to be shit/disappointing, and I devoted my time to learning English just to play games... well, I imagine it would be worth my time to go there and say "stupid Spaniards can't read this message".

>> No.5716329

>>5716301
Considering there are official translations that are borderline incomprehensible like Breath of Fire 2 and Secret of the Stars, yeah I'd say I can probably do better.

>> No.5716359

>>5715932
All kana I'm generally fine with. All-hiragana or all-katakana is a fucking nightmare, though.

>> No.5716386

>>5716321
I say names and locations should be translated as well, you can't just call "Sokuzawa the dark emperor" "El Diablo Horno". But you can change the story a little and avoid preserving the robotic Japanese sentence structure and mannerisms, and the word "technique" being used to mean any word in the language. Shit like "W-what? The D-dragon buster technique? I-it cannot be!" can be translated to the more natural "Dragon buster? That's impossible!". You know, shit where the Japanese make a big fucking deal out of something inconsequential within the context of a game, which happens a lot.

>> No.5716407 [DELETED] 
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5716407

>>5716386
Nah just change "My goal is to conquer all time periods. I will become a God" to "I'll be one touch Muchacho". Don't forget to spell spell "tough" wrong and add an extra apostrophe.

>> No.5716412
File: 960 KB, 1590x705, Capture.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
5716412

>>5716386
Nah just change "My goal is to conquer all time periods. I will become a God" to "I'll be one tongh Muchacho". Don't forget to spell spell "tough" wrong and add an extra apostrophe.

>> No.5716419

>>5716386
All of what you say is what I personally call "localization". And I believe localization goes hand in hand with translation: there's no good translation without good localization.

>> No.5716794

>>5716030
"Learning native level" is barely even a thing.
You can take your average American that was born in some other country and moved to America as an adult, take them into a perfectly normal kitchen, and ask them to hand you a ladle, and chances are they'll have no idea what that word means. A word your average 3-year-old native speaker knows.
Why? Because it's not the kind of word you learn in school, and it's not the kind of word you ever really encounter in daily life. So they just plain never learned it.

>> No.5716820

>>5716321
>Who gives a shit?
You do, since you sat down to read a comparison of the translation and the original in the first place. What kind of dumb question is this?

>> No.5716836

Can mods please ban the term "EOP" or the people who use it. It's mostly just one autist/schizo shitting up threads about Japanese games.

>> No.5716843

>>5716836
While we're at it, make lol, lmao, rofl, and their derivatives ban-trigger words, as well as have sex, dilate, and stop liking Pagani.

>> No.5716853

>>5716794
Ladle would be one word which you would learn on the spot or could look up and understand. The English speaker can still speak at a normal level, get along with others, read books and newspapers, understand the television etc... at a 'fluent' level. The same will never happen with Japanese. Even kids who spend a few years overseas then come back don't end up speaking at the same level as a Japanese who spent their whole life there, and it's not just vocabulary. Learning Japanese is good for those who have a passion for something Japanese that they will spend a considerable amount of their life on, but those studying have to accept the complexity of the language and culture and that they wont reach the level of Japanese people and wont be accepted by them. Truly knowing this will save some people a lot of pain, time and money.

>> No.5716930

>>5716853
>Ladle would be one word which you would learn on the spot or could look up and understand
Of course. The point is that a fuckton of "fluent English speakers" have never heard the word before and would need to either look it up or ask for clarification if they were just told to find one, even though it's a word all native speakers know.

>> No.5717082

>>5715908
>learning a language to play with toys

>> No.5717087

>>5717082
Do you have any arguments to go with that green text?

>> No.5717092
File: 34 KB, 632x375, c.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
5717092

why not use machine translation. I know moonrunes and turned on microsoft auto translate just to see how well it would do and was surprised how accurate it was, it was actually flawless most of the time.

>> No.5717117

>>5717092
How is that flawless?
It's missing the fact that the student was in the second year.
刃物 doesn't have to be a knife, it could be scissors or other bladed thing
>male student of his classmates
sounds retarded
>an interview with investigators found
Is mixing up the context as if the interview found the stab wounds.
>police are investigating the motive, which they suspect may have been relentlessly cut
is complete nonsense.

The whole text is just two sentences but it broke the first one down into several parts.

>> No.5717128

>>5715908
How long would it take me to be able to collect patreon bucks for translations?

>> No.5717134

>>5717128
You can do that immediately, just look at >>5716638
Actually knowing Japanese might be an obstacle to translating.

>> No.5717174

>>5715932
It's less annoying than super low quality kanji fonts. Obviously games that are high enough resolution should use kanji though.

>> No.5717207

>>5717174
Low pixel kanji fonts are generally fine, though. They're only an issue if you're new and can't recognise words yet.

>>5717092
It's only halfway passable like that on shit like news articles, it still struggles immensely with anything that's trying to sound like actual speech. The problem with MTL isn't that it's always wrong, it's that it's very easy to jump to completely incorrect conclusions.

>> No.5717220

>>5717134
>Actually knowing Japanese might be an obstacle to translating.
There's actually a reason most translations are done by complete amateurs like that guy. I know the feeling, back when I was very new, there were things I wanted to read but I just couldn't. So I'd "translate" them for myself, and upload them for the hell of it, because typesetting shit seemed more convenient in the long run than having a word doc open or something if I wanted to "read" a piece again.

This kind of mentality fades quickly when you actually learn more than 5 words and can read at a pace slower than molasses, but for some reason there are nutjobs who remain in the "can't read Japanese" state for years, probably because they barely know kana and just supplement everything with google translate and guessing.

If you actually know Japanese, there's almost no benefit to translating something. It can be alright as practice if you want a job, I guess, but even then you wouldn't translate half the lines you encounter because they're too trivial. The only other reason to do it is E-peen.

>> No.5717250

>>5716321
I don't understand your post so I'm going to translate it for everyone else

>Rubba dub dub, Final Fantasy localization legend is a faithful wind goddess for me.

>> No.5717305

>>5717207
Low quality, e.g. the subs you get in MGS are fine. A 256x224 image like the OP posted would be hard to read if it used any less common kanji.

>> No.5717318

>>5717305
I've seen NES games with reduced kanji sets that look fine, most of the time they just make them slightly bigger than the rest of the kana to get enough resolution. Maybe it's an issue if you're using RF or even composite garbage on low quality screens, but I've never seen anything that'd bother me.

You hear stories of beginners frustrated by kanji posted here because the lines look too small to resolve. I think it's just a question of experience, and you're not going to encounter anything that uncommon in a NES game because of the memory limits anyway. If you go back to anything that might've had the kind of hardware to do a full kanji set back in the day, it's all PCs with 640x400 resolutions and up.

>> No.5717447
File: 14 KB, 629x224, g.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
5717447

>>5717117
Its not that bad, 9/10 its a knife and junior high is all that you really need to know. I can see why the last sentence got mixed, because the original text is kind of awkward.
Im guessing they are using A.I. to translate it so it will get better over time, its already a huge improvement from what it used to be. A better solution might be to machine translate it then hand it off to someone who knows japanese to fix small errors.

>> No.5717481

I'm gonna come out and just fucking say it already: english is the only language that matters in this world. I don't give a damn about some video games or cartoons or even entire shithole countries. Every thing that truly matters, every country that truly matters, has a strong relation to english. Disagree all you want, but you know it's the truth. If it weren't, we wouldn't even be talking right now.

>> No.5717492

>>5717481
seething EOP

>> No.5717513

Non EOPs what are the games that made all that studying worth it? I want a taste of what I've missed out on

>> No.5717527

>>5717513
Nothing, all the good stuff got translated, everything else is seriously a waste of time.

>> No.5717546

>>5717513
The whole Sakura Wars series is so great that I'm stunned it never got translated, I guess the Saturn was just that much of a death sentence in the west. It's incredibly easy to see why it was at the top of the list for Sega franchises people wanted revived.

Honestly, I don't play that much old story-based stuff. It's really nice playing new releases half a year before they come out in the west, and people really don't understand how much they miss out on in a translation. A solid half the games I've played since learning Japanese have literally been games I already beat in English years ago, because the difference between them is so huge that it's like playing a whole new game.

When you've experienced what it's like to play games in Japanese, you just can't go back. It's like having a broken arm or something for your entire life, until one day it just starts working. Nobody would go back to playing one handed.

>> No.5717589

>>5717513
machi
boku no natsuyasumi
fuuraiki
nanatsu kaze no shima monogatari
veldesellba senki
linda3 again
lunatic dawn 3
fushigi deka
kowloon's gate
yuuyami doori takentai
popolocrois monogatari
mizzurna falls
bealphareth

if you go back and play officially localized games in japanese, you will also realize that most retro-era localizations were questionable at best and absolute trash at worst

>> No.5717612

>>5717546
lmao STFU you are exaggerating way too much, English and Japanese gamers basically get the same experience when playing the same game. Sakura wars games were never translated cause its always been shitty generic TRPG + visual novel and theres a fully localized anime series making it redundant.

>> No.5717625

Someone tell me what the fuck is an EOP?

>> No.5717634

>>5717612
>English and Japanese gamers basically get the same experience when playing the same game
They really, really don't. Obviously you don't understand because you're an ESL at best.

>> No.5717653

>>5717634
Can you give an example then?

>> No.5717701

>>5717653
It's like trying to explain what color is to a blind man. The best I can give you is something like that comparison of MGS2 where all the characters are made absolutely retarded because Kaku thought she could write, and the absolutely awful voice direction they went with when they decided that Raiden should sound like a whiny child in English.

I wish J>E translation was good. I'd save me having to replay a bunch of games. But the money involved basically guarantees garbage work, and fan "re-translations" are inevitably even worse because they come from inexperienced spergs who leave shit untranslated for "authenticity".

The example I tend to go back to is 「吾輩は猫である」. It's a book title, and in English it's translated as "I am a cat". If you translated "I am a cat" back into Japanese, you'd get something completely different. Technically speaking, "I am a cat" is correct. It conveys the same basic information, it can't be classified as a mistranslation, there is nothing "wrong" with it. But this is because English doesn't have the same manner of speech. In Japanese, 吾輩は猫である implies a cat who is haughty, one who considers himself very well-to-do. This tone is completely lost in the English translation, and there's really no sensible way to confer it as a book title.

>> No.5717720

>>5717625
English Only People

>>5717589
Most of these titles are renown for their unique art style, but the gameplay and story is all generic and nothing outstanding, even if I know moonrunes not once did i feel as though they were worth my time to playthrough.

>retro-era localizations were questionable at best and absolute trash at worst
It turns out that way due to production deadlines and memory constraints in the rom. They have to fit the text into memory space allocated for the original japanese text which is sometimes not enough so they have to shorten sentences. But a lot of the time its just nitpicking because weebs are always insecure about their Japanese comprehension and nothing secures them more than claiming to make better translations than the official version.

>> No.5717732

>>5715908
>4
Make that 8, and still counting.
There's always something in my life that makes me drop rune memorizing. That and being a lazy shit.

>> No.5717742

>>5715908
Japanese is a cuck language, that's why I study Chinese

>> No.5717767

>>5715908
Or I could stop caring about shitty JP games
All the good ones are in English
Im never even going to play all the ones that are in english already
If your mp¡motivation to learn JP is videogames please stop and dont do it.

>> No.5717769

>>5717720
games like machi, fūraiki and fushigi deka are 100% about their writing. i'm not saying you're missing out on the meaning of life by not knowing japanese. but just like learning any another language, it opens your mind to a whole new world. and retro games can be good for practicing, too.

>> No.5717770

>>5717701
You are fucking pathetic dude.
And Im actually Japanese.

>> No.5717828

>>5717742
Lmao, the only thing that will get you is having to deal with the Chinese.

>> No.5717887

>>5715908
>waste YEARS of your life so you can play ROMs

nigga what the fuck is wrong with you

>> No.5717892

>>5717887

imagine thinking that learning a language is ever for any reason a waste of time

>> No.5718024

>>5716836
That paranoid schizo is you. And the apologist for made up translations is you as well. Get some standards, you shit-eater.

And it's really hilarious how you break down when being reminded you're an EOP. Maybe stop having such a complex about it.

>> No.5718128

>>5718024
you're literally insane dude, barneyfag tier. the only way you can somehow reason against that is by having schizophrenia

>> No.5718140

>>5717527
Even the stuff that's translated is significantly better in its original form.
Retro translations in particular had low standards and high technical problems to work with. They also come hand in hand with dubious changes and restrict your choice of platform.

>> No.5718204
File: 43 KB, 1299x352, Untitled.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
5718204

Unfortunately Makyouden translation was revealed to be made-up crap.

See here. Three random scenes, all three full of rewrites or completely removed parts.

>>5700672

>> No.5718210

>>5718204
Take that you fags.

>> No.5718228
File: 122 KB, 1271x1048, dead.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
5718228

>>5718210
Dead of the Brain doesn't seem to be any better.

コール: はい、近々パーティをやろうと思いまして、ドク・・・・いや、教授と相談してた所ですよ。
>Cole: Yeah, recently I've been thinking of having a party... it's what I was talking about with Doc... no, the professor.
Consider for yourself if the guy's translation is anywhere close.

Really sad how many people celebrated the guy and his translations.

>> No.5718234

>>5717447
>Im guessing they are using A.I. to translate it so it will get better over time,
There is no actual artificial intelligence. It may get better if they feed it more training data but you can't really use reinforced learning for translations.

>> No.5718249

>>5718128
I hope everything will be alright for you. Are you the Patreon dude himself? Otherwise I can't imagine why you'd defend his translations after multiple people shown them to be shit in detail.

>> No.5718252

>>5718228
The shocking part is that it's not the first time somebody tried to scam PC98 translations.
I'm surprised nobody so far has claimed "it doesn't matter as long as I understand what's going on" as if you can't make up the story yourself instead of relying on somebody else to do it for you.

>> No.5718273

>>5715908
videogames aren't complicated enough or well written enough to complain about a "good" translation you fucking retard. you are only fooling yourself if you think anything meaningful has been lost in any translation you pathetic waste

>> No.5718276

>>5718252
You have people doing that in this very thread. I hope some of them are joking.

>> No.5718278

>>5717701
You fucking idiot. Languages don't work like that, and you are being incredibly pretentious.

>> No.5718283

>>5715908
>i have to study for 4 years in order to play visual novels
not worth it. ill just remember the "fire attack" is the one with the " disjointed stick figure" looking thing

>> No.5718286

>>5717892
If you never use it for anything and end up largely forgetting it, then I think it's pretty safe to say that it was a waste of time.

>> No.5718342

>>5717653
Ace Attorney. I've only played the first one in both languages but it's completely different. English version has less character (I know that might be hard to believe). It's also more childish with pun abuse and random jokes thrown around while in the original the tone is more consistent and appropriate to the situation.

>> No.5718354

>>5718342
I should point out that while there were plenty of dumb decisions made with that localization there is also a lot of content that just cannot translate well from Japanese in that game, like the speech patterns of each character. It is a big part of what gives them charm and in English it is harder to give characters distinct personalities (at best you get corny accents).

Anyone who has played 999 also probably remembers that one twist that made no sense because it depended on a Japanese homophone that does not exist in English.

In general I think I wouldn't recommend translated story-heavy games like VNs and such, because game translators are not very good at translating prose. 999 had a lot of awkward wording in English; rereading it in Japanese now, it flows naturally. I liked Ace Attorney in English too, but it is weird going back to it and realizing how much they rewrote the game and how different (and better) it is in its original version.

>> No.5718372

>>5716820
>who gives a shit
He gives a shit that other people give a shit, and is deeply unsettled that anyone cares about getting the original plot in all of its

cartoony,
campy,
inferior uncultured untrained oriental writing,
trope filled,
embarrassingly problematic,
unsubverted,
unedited,
outdated,
immature,
not saying any message of value to further social causes,
stilted unnatural and dry,
taking-itself-seriously despite how much i despise it,
not fixed to be an-amy-schumer-comedy-skit

glory.

So it could be a game that makes up the whole thing to detrimental lengths (which for an interactive medium takes a massive screw up to happen) and he would scour the internet to make sure all EOPs, moonrune readers, and those who list the differences, all know how he thinks they are trash and how the game is trash so its translation being even more trash makes the deal better since he can laugh at the big joke that stupid game is and take some enjoyment of it. Oh and because of this it makes the game better, supposedly.

BUT If a hongkong translator uses machine translation to pump an english version of some game with yaoi faggotry and those lines are missing any iota of meaning, well you sure bet your ass he will come running with extra autistic walls of text explaining how much minute details and obscure meanings that kanji radical, with a nice tldr with the translator's name to be fired.

It's okay to be a weaboo afa resetera is concerned, you just need to do that in the CORRECT context.

>> No.5718415

>>5718372
LMAO

>> No.5718424

>>5715908
If you're emulating, you can take screenshots, use qimagereader to scan the text, and then use google translate to get a rough translation of the Japanese text.

>> No.5718430

>>5718424
That may be workable to look up kanji you didn't know but it's a terrible without Japanese knowledge.

>> No.5719012

>>5717701
>The example I tend to go back to is 「吾輩は猫である」. It's a book title, and in English it's translated as "I am a cat". If you translated "I am a cat" back into Japanese, you'd get something completely different. Technically speaking, "I am a cat" is correct. It conveys the same basic information, it can't be classified as a mistranslation, there is nothing "wrong" with it. But this is because English doesn't have the same manner of speech. In Japanese, 吾輩は猫である implies a cat who is haughty, one who considers himself very well-to-do. This tone is completely lost in the English translation, and there's really no sensible way to confer it as a book title.
>I am a stuck-up cat
>I am an elite cat
>I am a noble cat
>I'm a cat, and I'm better than you
Sweet jesus christ that was hard! How can we possibly translate concepts to another language?! I know there are some things(mostly puns and jokes about the JP language) that don't translate well, but that's about it. The same shit doesn't translate from english to JP very well either. But your example is total ass.

>>5718354
>you can't give characters distinct personalities in english without accents
Have you ever read a book your school didn't force you to? Even characters in fucking Steven King novels have specific speech patterns. How far up your own ass are you?

>> No.5719014

>>5719012
EOP

>> No.5719016

>>5719014
See
>>5716298

Now try to prove my post wrong instead of a meme reply, if your brain can handle it.

>> No.5719019

>>5715908
>studied Japanese in college
>was making decent progress
>graduate
>drop it like a hot potato
>studying now would probably be almost like starting at square two
Why do I sabotage myself?

>> No.5719098

>>5719016
You are an EOP in denial, it clearly doesn't matter how much other people spoonfeed you, you will never get it and you will keep denying the truth because you are too arrogant to admit you don't know shit. I've seen your type many times, don't worry.

>> No.5719116

>>5719098
>I have no argument, but I'll claim you JUST DON'T GET IT!
Amazingly, I still have no reason to learn JP, or any desire to. Screaming EOP at someone who has no desire to learn is like screaming "CAR ONLY PEASANT, BET YOU WISH YOU HAD THIS BIKE" while riding a bicycle past an auto shop.

And you STILL haven't proven anything I said wrong. Can you not into logic?

>> No.5719443

>>5718286

playing retro games is, conveniently, a very good way to practice and remember japanese. i learned italian four years ago and i don't interact with anyone in italian on a regular basis, but i keep it fresh by watching movies and reading novels in italian. i have never ever regretted it.

>> No.5719454

>>5719443
I can't name a single retro game made in Italy.

>> No.5719482
File: 91 KB, 508x448, Gekido_-_Urban_Fighters.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
5719482

>>5719443
What's your honest opinion of our language? What do you think it achieves best, and what does it lack the most? It always feels fresh to hear an outside opinion. I could tell a lot of things about my language, and how it is recently falling into ruin by the means of cultural colonization, but it would take too much of the energy I can spend right now.

>>5719454
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gekido

This is one of the arguably best known ones that don't fall under the amiga/soccer/racing spectrum.

>> No.5719483

I don't want to come off like an asshole here, but for me learning another language is like the ultimate waste of time. There are so many other things you could be doing with your time.

>> No.5719490

>>5719483
>I don't want to come off like an asshole here, but for me going to school is like the ultimate waste of time. There are so many other things you could be doing with your time.
No, don't hit the reply button retard. This is exactly how you sound. This is your mindset. Don't try to deny it.

>> No.5719498

>>5715970
What is wrong with that exactly? Japanese isn't exactly directly translatable to english

>> No.5719502

>>5719498
Care to explain for us how the Japanese 明日 and 今日 are rather different concepts from the English tomorrow and today? Not everybody here seems to know such complex kanji.

>> No.5719503

>>5715908
You only need to study Japanese for 18-22 month to become fluent enough to play games.

>> No.5719508

>>5719503
That completely depends on how you learn and what games you play.
It's perfectly possible to master RPGs in 6 months while quiz games are probably going to take more than 4 years.

>> No.5719510

>>5719508
I'm not sure about 4 years but games that feature scientific terms will take longer studying if you want to play them.

>> No.5719515

>>5719503
not really, unless you play baby games exclusively. even then DQ-speak is nothing like what you'd learn if you learned modern Japanese (which you should).

you can get good enough to trudge through children's games while looking up words in the dictionary constantly in that amount of time, but that's not a realistic timeframe to actually play games fluently unless you are a NEET and maximum autist.

I am at an advanced level (rarely need to look up a word), but still annoyed by auto-scrolling/auto-skipping text, due to reading speed. if you have to think for a second about a word you miss the end of the text.

>> No.5719518

>>5718204
holy fuck yeah that is a retarded translation. its not even plural at all

>> No.5719578

>>5719518
Aren't all translations like that?

>> No.5719592

>>5719578
my japanese isn't exactly great, but im pretty sure that the japanese do have pluralizing suffixes and この水の魔物挑んだらしいが only indicates one single monster

>> No.5719605

>>5719592
Normal japanese is vague for whether or not something is plural, and it depends on context.You can go out of your way to specify if something is plural but it's not always done.

>> No.5719608

>>5719605
ah, i kind of figured. ive never played this game or dont even know what its about so i was just going off the image.

>> No.5719621

>>5716030
If all the Mexicans in my town can live here for fucking decades and not learn a lick of English, basically living in their own little Mexico bubble, you can surround yourself in enough Japanese media to the point where you might as well be in Japan. Of course talking to native speakers all day every fucking day would be great, but there just happens to be enough media out there that you can simulate it.

>> No.5719726

>>5717701
Even something like "I'll have you know you stand in the presence of a cat" would've at least attempted to convey the point of the original title.

>> No.5720223

>>5715908
Or I could play a fun and exciting game like Final Fight 3, Quake, or Warcraft 2.

>> No.5720235

>>5716298
>Because what's the point of spending years to learn a language just to play endless dragon quest clones, dating sims, and quiz games, if you aren't going to brag about it to all the people who can't?
You play dull games for bragging rights?

>> No.5720243

>>5717742
NO ANON! DON'T DO IT!

>> No.5720250

>>5716265
>>5716298
Actually the real reasons why people stick here is 1) getting to a fluent PRODUCTION level (i.e. writing and speaking) is far harder than being able to read fluently, so many people can enjoy games but not communicate effectively;
2) this is a niche hobby even in Japan and there aren't that many people to talk about untranslated retro games to, depending on what system, era etc. you are interested in. Maybe I haven't searched hard enough.
3) Popular Japanese boards geo-block against non-Japanese posters, so you cannot post there without paying either to the board or to a VPN/VPS provider.
and small 4) because we've been here for a long time and don't know comfy Japanese communities. I hang out in a couple but they are pretty dead compared to /vr/.

Although I have to say bragging to EOPs is pretty fun indeed.

>> No.5720252

>>5720250
Bragging only works if it's something that actually impresses the people you brag to.

>> No.5720254

>>5715947
Such a simple sentence to fuck up
>Je parle un peu francais

>> No.5720261

>>5720252
People seethe pretty hard when the topic is brought up as evidenced by this thread. The denial of posts such as >>5716298 (claiming all untranslated games are derivative or mediocre) is hilarious. Even if people don't admit that they are envious, it is entertaining to see the denial and ignorance on display.

>>5715947
EOP assumes American by default, it's a catchy abbreviation. Kinda lame to call someone a non-Japanese-speaking bilingual même si la plupart de /vr/ peut parler plus d'une langue.

>> No.5720279

>>5720261
>claiming all untranslated games are derivative or mediocre
Most of them probably are. If the game was good they would probably try to sell it overseas to make more money.
Optionally, it's a game which does alright in one market, but they opt not to export it because the kind of game it is just isn't something that'll interest a lot of people in foreign markets.

There's untranslated games which are actually pretty good, but the Japanese market had its fair share of cookie cutter titles too, and I don't lose any sleep from not having experienced them.
I'm really not a JRPG kind of guy anymore either, and I don't find most interactive stories/adventures particularly engaging, so it's looking all the more narrow from here, because even if they're good they're of genres or niches which don't interest me.

>> No.5720294

>>5720261
>Even if people don't admit that they are envious
Why the hell would I want to play VN's, dating sims, quiz games, and dragon quest knockoffs? The first three are all videogames in the sense a Choose Your Own Adventure book is a game, and actual Dragon Quest is already too bland for me. You seem desperate to be admired.

Here's some japanese for you. 1 bomb plus 1 bomb equal end of war.

>> No.5720305

>>5715908
>You could study Japanese for 4 years and be good enough to play most video games
The world will end before that

>> No.5720310

>>5720279
>Most of them probably are
Most games are, period.
>If the game was good they would probably try to sell it overseas to make more money.
This is exactly the kind of ignorance I am talking about. There are plenty of innovative and top tier titles that were too risqué to be brought overseas, or that rights holders never bothered to re-release for one reason or another. Hell, there were multiple consoles and console peripherals that were exclusive to Japan. How do you suppose they would bring those games to the West? Not everything gets ports and remakes.

And it's not like it only applies to older titles either. Take E.X. Troopers, a great action game released for 3DS and PS3, with a pretty unique art style, that I assume was "too Japanese" to be worth bringing to the West.

And besides all the exclusives you don't have to worry about whether you're going to be fed a terrible translation like those guess-lations doing the rounds lately or censored crap. Even the best translations in my experience lose information or change tone a bit because Japanese and English are too different from one another to allow for 1:1 translations in any but the most simple of scenarios. Any text-heavy game tends to come off as awkward.

As for genres, there are plenty of untranslated action game, shmups, simulation games, strategy games, puzzle games, walking simulators, you name it. I have no idea what makes people think that only turn-based RPGs, adventure games and VNs are left to translate.

>> No.5720313

>>5720310
Do the Japanese do any first person shooters?

>> No.5720343

>>5720313
Yes but I'm done spoonfeeding.

>> No.5720354

>>5720313

yeah, but not many and none worth going out of your way to play

>>5720310
>As for genres, there are plenty of untranslated action game, shmups, simulation games, strategy games, puzzle games, walking simulators, you name it.

this is true, but if someone wants to play a japan-only action game or shmup, they can do it. only text-heavy games such as adventure games and rpgs have an actual language barrier.

>> No.5720424
File: 170 KB, 1024x706, 1534237243850.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
5720424

>>5715908
Or I could just play a better game.

>> No.5720497

>>5720354
I've stopped trying to use logic or respond to him, and you should too. He just wants to screech EOP at people since, as he admitted here:
>>5720250
he has no where else to go where he can even pretend anyone cares.

>> No.5720503

>>5719592
>>5719608
Next time comment after you learn the very basic of basic grammatical concepts of Japanese.

>> No.5720517

If anyone actually wants to learn
>>>/int/djt

i've tried op but i don't have the attention or motivation.

>> No.5720519

>>5720503
shut the fuck up nerd

>> No.5720521

>>5720250
Also, most people are generally not all that intereted in talking to people that write caveman-tier posts full of grammatical errors , weird phrasings and the occasional misused word.

>> No.5720539

>>5720519
Dude, I just didn't like someone dismissing the commentary because he didn't know how pluralization works in Japanese.

>my japanese isn't exactly great
He started, yet proceeded to act like he knows what he's talking about.

>> No.5720549

Imagine not being able to just read the code the game's written in and playing out all the options in your head. Stupid shit eating spoke origin language only people.

>> No.5720595
File: 403 KB, 496x640, e-fox-grapes-nw.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
5720595

>>5720424
>I didn't want those grapes anyway

>> No.5720604

>>5720539
>He started, yet proceeded to act like he knows what he's talking about
as he defends gurorious nihon ranguriji on 4chang

>> No.5720614

>>5720604
Are you okay, dude?

>> No.5720902

>>5715908
all the good ones are already translated
you know it's true

>> No.5720916

>>5720549
>Stupid shit eating spoke origin language only people.
Imagine being able to post this shit. I'd check myself in for a brain scan and 72 hour hold if I did

>> No.5721132

>>5720595
Untranslated games are not the only grapes in the world, my man.

>> No.5721180

>>5720916
Too bad you're not fluent in Indian or you could do the neurology yourself

>> No.5721221

>>5717481
Americans don't even have their own language, they have to use a European language. No culture, no history, very sad.

>> No.5721228

>>5721221
American language superseded the English language.

>> No.5721250
File: 3.16 MB, 500x212, clicking_intensifies.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
5721250

>>5715908
Or you could spend 4 months hacking together an emulator OCR system and jury rig it to an automatic translator to set onscreen subs/overlays.
The main advantage being, it's a simple re-hack to translate Chinese/Korean/Russian/French/etc games as well.

Biggest issue is probably detecting/extracting the text to pass, and then deciding the framerate. Maybe it could be invoked manually by the user or something. Now last time I checked OCR was basically dog-shit, but maybe there's a machine learning solution for this now.

>> No.5721559

>>5721250
Or I'll do you one better. Implement a system where you can get users to input text themselves instead of having it machine translated

>> No.5721578

>>5721559
>input text themselves

Good luck with those kanji.

>> No.5721582

>>5715908
You could play most video games after only 6-12 months of Japanese study. Video games are for kids.

>> No.5721591

>>5718286
So high school is a waste of time? Most stuff I learned there I never used. I spent eight years learning French and I never use it. Didn't forget it though, I think I could get back up to a decent level with only a week, maybe two of practice.

>> No.5721598

>>5721582
There are games for adults as well.

>> No.5721603

>>5721591
>So high school is a waste of time?
Honestly, kinda.

>> No.5721610

>>5721578
I meant English for the overlays dummy

>> No.5721616

>>5721610
For what purpose?

>> No.5721771
File: 52 KB, 500x375, 1509043657870.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
5721771

Or learn a language that people outside a small isolated island use

>> No.5721853

>>5717770
>You are fucking pathetic dude.
>And Im actually Japanese.
and coming from a japanese, that's a pretty bad insult

>> No.5721872

>>5720354
>if someone wants to play a japan-only action game or shmup, they can do it
There are many action games with a lot of text or at least reliance on text, as well as games that expect you to read the manual.

>>5720497
Denial through bullshit isn't "logic", poor little man.

>>5720521
I hate people who try to write Japanese around natives when they are awful at it too, it's embarrassing.

>>5721250
Sure, see if you can succeed where everyone else failed. Considering the amount of time it would take to build a reliable system capable of handling all sorts of fonts and resolutions with good precision and recall, you'd probably save your time and get more out of it if you learned instead, disregarding how it might help other people - or money you could potentially make off of it, which I doubt would be much. Translation quality isn't very good either, especially for fragments of speech.

As for other languages, they are hardly relevant for video games, except Chinese which is gaining ground lately, and Korean only if you have shit taste and like to be exploited.

>>5717887
EOP mentality.

>>5721771
We will see about that after the next Pearl Harbor.

>> No.5721896

>>5721872
Plenty of shmups have spoken dialogue as well. Imagine beating 虫姫様 and not understanding what's being said. 君に会えって良かった

https://youtu.be/Inq1LYYxyt0?t=144

>> No.5721905

>>5721896
There are some with writing too but pointing that out is likely to just get "hurrdurr it doesn't matter for gameplay" replies so I prefer to focus on cases where EOPs wouldn't be able to understand what to do.

>> No.5721961
File: 4 KB, 156x96, tacnuke.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
5721961

>>5721872
>the next Pearl Harbor
I mean, go for it.

>> No.5721978

>>5719012
>I am a stuck-up cat
>I am an elite cat
>I am a noble cat
>I'm a cat, and I'm better than you
None of those are poignant. The first one makes it sound like he's admitting he's an ass, "elite" sounds more like top quality, "noble" has more of a sound of being heroic, selfless, etc. basically the opposite, and the last one is just plain snarky and not appropriate for a translation of classical literature.

>> No.5722008

just use tl notes lmoa

>> No.5722009

>>5721978
How about >>5719726

>> No.5722030

>>5721591
If you didn't get any use out of that knowledge or enjoy the learning process itself, then yes, it certainly was a waste.

>> No.5722107

>>5722008
Now THIS guy gets it.

>>5722009
Probably as close as we're gonna get. The other 4 that anon suggested honestly weren't BAD, it's just an issue of losing flavor/not conveying exactly the intent. And since people usually just spring for "I am a cat" with the title, imagine if we were talking about translating a whole book. It's true that plenty of lines wouldn't need this level of discussion involved, but it really builds up.
Another thing is that slurring the shit out of your speech is very common for young Japanese, especially people who wanna sound tough, but if you try to do that in your translation it'll just make your character sound like a hick or trying to act black.

>> No.5722119

>>5715908
>study a foreign language so I can enjoy grindfests with basic storytelling
meh

>> No.5722241

>>5715908
>4 years
I took 1 year and a half to read games like the image in your OP buddy

>> No.5722253

>>5722241
Why tell lies on the internet though?

>> No.5722256

>>5721180
>one slurpee
I'm fluent in Indian

>>5721228
>Fuck yeah
I like how Portugal just gave up on trying to own the language when they were outnumbered by black trannies while Englandstan desperately tries to pretend that a dialect that 1% of the population actually speak is "the law"

>> No.5722325

>>5715947
Idiot, the term arose from people who have to wait for English translations, of which there are infinitely more than translations from other languages. It doesn't refer to English monolinguals specifically.

>> No.5722339

>>5720595
Aren't grapes poisonous to dogs and shit?

>> No.5722392

>>5717513
I play a fuckload of Japanese only games but few retro ones (e.g. Tobira no Densetsu) so I will refrain from dumping a list. I'm not sure learning Japanese for just retro games would have been worth it for me since there aren't many untranslated kamige I've heard of. Replaying translated games in JP is nice though since translations are universally less well written.

>> No.5723147

>>5720354
I could imagin there are several games inbetween, where you don't need to read the text to finish it but it really improve the overall experience.

>> No.5723183

>>5721896
There have been zero instances where a persons enjoyment was heightened from understanding the voices or dialog in a shmup. And if there is it's a touhoufag who doesn't play for the gameplay.

>> No.5723202

>>5723183
You aren't even curious what they're saying?

https://youtu.be/8qIj7hYj_Rk?t=156

>> No.5723219

>>5723202
Not really. I would actually prefer if you could turn them off in the shmups that have them. Saidaioujou and Ginga Force have annoying voices.

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