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/vr/ - Retro Games

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File: 27 KB, 350x437, john_carmack.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5699106 No.5699106 [Reply] [Original]

>forces dev team to utterly gimp Saturn port of Doom because of texture warping
>has no problem with a port of Quake that radically changes many maps and doesn't even use the Quake engine

>> No.5699108
File: 2.92 MB, 1000x750, quake.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5699108

(which by the way, also had texture warping)

>> No.5699147

>>5699106
Maybe the Saturn is just a shit console.

>> No.5699376
File: 91 KB, 916x570, doom.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5699376

>>5699106
he knows he fucked up

>> No.5699382

>>5699376
I was about to cite this

Op leave Him the fuck alone

>> No.5699383

to be fair, it you're playing Quake on console you've already gimped yourself

>> No.5699403

almost like he learned a lesson and grew as an individual, op.

>> No.5699430
File: 328 KB, 1500x1500, pa.89376.1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5699430

>>5699147
Maybe you're retarded

>> No.5699519

>>5699106
>shitposts from parents basement about shit no one gives a shit about
>has literally no purpose in life aside from that

>> No.5700085

>>5699106
Yeah, he realized he made a mistake.

>> No.5700094

>>5699106
Doesn’t matter since because it was on Saturn only 7 people played it anyway.

>> No.5700142

>>5699106
He's a genius but also an sociopathic asshole. No wonder he made some bad decisions.

>> No.5700338

>>5699106
>>5699376
So basically Carmack just had autism?

>> No.5700614
File: 90 KB, 488x400, Concerned stare.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5700614

>>5700338
>had

>> No.5700620

Can we agree that fps games are bad and that ultima underworld should have been the future of videogames?

>> No.5700623

>>5699106
Literally who?

>> No.5700643

>>5700620
We can agree on the first thing but not on the second. Ultima Underworld and RPG's in general are garbage.

>> No.5700647

>>5700623
Co-founder of Id Software, innovator, rocket scientist, slow-aging blond nerd, and alleged time-wizard, John Carmack.

>> No.5701379

>>5700620
Wolf3D was way more optimized than UU, it could run on a regular machine.

>> No.5701413

>>5700620
I agree with the fps thing, but isometric rpg > first person rpg

>> No.5701416

>>5700623
The man who more or less invented 3d game engines and whose attitude to source code makes him indirectly responsible for most 3D game engines in use today.

>> No.5701471

>>5699403
foreign concept for your average 4chan poster

>> No.5701990

>>5700620
FPS are the only western genre that are actually fun to play (for a while at least) and not clunky
Also we need less stat autism in games, not more

>> No.5702539

>>5699430
shit consoles can have good games

>> No.5702557

>>5700623
Get the fuck off /vr/.

>> No.5702564

>>5701416
>whose attitude to source code makes him indirectly responsible for most 3D game engines in use today.

Maybe this was true in 1998, but today IDTech is not used by fuck all, and Carmack had nothing to do with Unreal Engine.

>> No.5702574

>>5702564
> indirectly

>> No.5702604

>>5700620
It was the future of videogames, look at Daggerfall, Morrowind and the new Fallouts.

>> No.5702609
File: 52 KB, 604x453, 1490950996817.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5702609

>>5699147
youre right
>>5699430
youre the retard

>> No.5702792

>>5700643
There's an entire board dedicated to you people.

>> No.5702998

>>5702609
Stop playing with teddy bears and get a job.

>> No.5703021

>>5699383
If your 3d is being held together by duct-tape like on Saturn sure. I find Quake 64 is the comfiest and best way to play Quake.

>> No.5703048

Pretty sure he was already disinterested in games by that time.
Inventing 3D gaming for Carmack was just a stepping stone to bigger things.

>> No.5703085

>>5703048
>Pretty sure he was already disinterested in games by that time.
>Inventing 3D gaming for Carmack was just a stepping stone to bigger things.
"bigger things" such as technology officer for a floudering VR nobody cares about or wants at this point? When Carmack does an interview on a mainstream network about his great success then it'll mean something.

What will actually happen is this - when VR starts to become interesting, the likes of Google, Microsoft, EA, Ubisoft will plough money hard into the technology and companies like Oculus will get be bought or skewered up the ass. I'm not saying it's right, but that's what'll likely happen.

>> No.5703098

>>5703085
You must have missed the part where Oculus is owned by Facebook.
Facebook is way more rich than EA or Ubisoft, and MS already has AR glasses and shit designed for the future, not to mention WMR.

Also, VR is a niche market but not a failing one by any meaning of the word, if it were Valve wouldn't have launched a new headset recently, nor would Pimax with its extremely niche 5k screen.

For an innovator like Carmack VR/AR was the next logical step, you can't do breakthrough games anymore as you're forced to have them work on consoles that are already outdated by the time they are released, so why bother with normal games?

>> No.5703316

>>5703021
Retard alert

>> No.5703318

>>5700620
Skyrim is what resulted from following the ultima underworld path

>> No.5703342

>>5703316
Thanks for alerting us to your presence but one glance at your face is sufficient.

>> No.5703729

>>5703342
>Preferring quake64 to quake on PC
>Calling anyone else retarded

>> No.5704131

>>5700338
how did you jump to that conclusion from the to posts >>'ed in your post? It very well might be that you are the one with autism-specter condition

>> No.5704350

>>5700623
get out of here

>> No.5704361

>>5702574
Not him but.

Unreal 1 release date - 1998
Quake 1 source code release date - 1999

Unreal engine was written from scratch without glancing at any of Carmack's code at all.

>> No.5704407

>>5703318
God bless Ultima Underworld and Richard Garriott.

>> No.5704513

>>5704361
You know he would hand source code to just about anyone right? Half life exists cause of source code he handed out

>> No.5704576

>>5704513
Valve licensed the Quake engine for Half-Life. Epic did not.

>> No.5704594

sometime i forget how profoundly dumb and ignorant 4chan posters are

>> No.5704630

>>5704513
What the fuck kind of ignorant post is this. In reality Romero got into a legal dispute with ID in order to use the newer Quake 2 engine for Daikatana

>> No.5704803

His decision has to be seen in the context of the times - a solid, robust world was of prime importance to him back then. He did so much good and outstanding work but folks love to focus on the "negative".

>> No.5704807

>>5699106
The Saturn was powerful enough to do the real Doom engine in software but the devs didn't pull it off. Whether that was time constraints, lack of skill or butt hurt I can't say.
The Saturn is NOT powerful enough to do Quake in software so affine texture swim of some kind you just have to live with.
Carmack's only sin was believing someone else had the talent to optimise his engine.

>> No.5704813

>>5702564
The techniques that were used in his engines though were HEAVILY documented. Every aspiring programmer back then was pouring over the Doom & Quake rendering techniques.
They didn't use his engines, but they sure as shit benefitted from his expertise. This was only possible because he didn't keep this shit secret. Hell, the famous "Carmack's Reverse" thing might not even have happened if it wasn't for him writing a paper on the thing. Creative labs would likely have never known he was using a patented technique.

>> No.5704925

>>5704807

idk, hard to say. the guy who did the doom port is a pretty high tier programmer as well. he did some pretty impressive conversions of arcade games to the zx81 and spectrum.

one of the big problems with the saturn port as it ended up was that it rendered at twice the resolution of the 32x version. actually, it might've been more than twice since it was fullscreen. in an interview he said he optimized the renderer to the point where it never stalled the SH2s 5 stage pipeline, so hard to imagine the issue was slow code.

>> No.5704935

>>5704807
Reminder that Doom wasn't truly smooth on PCs until early Pentiums, which are *much* faster than Hitachi SH-2s.

>> No.5705097

>>5699106
Given that Doom happened first, and that he's admitted that vetoing how that port was developed, I'm willing to guess he realized this was a mistake and allowed the port of Quake to be more accommodating of the hardware for the sake of performance.

>>5700338
Carmack is the emperor of aspergers.
Weird and didn't really get socially interacting with people (something he's worked on), he's stupidly smart and industrious.
As a youth, this got him into various trouble because he didn't yet understand/care about social norms or law.

This is a guy who wrote revolutionary code which was used to make some of the most important games of the 90s, but it's also a guy who made bombs for fun as a kid, pumped weights and trained martial arts to beat up bullies for fun, went to juvie, and later supposedly didn't have a driver's license, preferring to just pay the fines if he got stopped, because he just didn't want to go through the hassle of going to the DMV.
Oh yeah, and he once tried distilling his own jet fuel in his house.

The guy is like a fictional character, a cartoon figure, who somehow came to be in our world. The man is fucking surreal.

>> No.5705106

>>5700142
I wouldn't call him a sociopath, he just has really heavy tism and it took him a long time to properly develop social skills.
I think maybe an understanding of his own intellect as a kid maybe made him arrogant and feel like he had the right to disregard rules and people's feelings, some kids can be very egocentric.

>> No.5705110

>>5700620
No, because that game is fucking dull as shit as far as RPGs go, while Doom remains entertaining even if you butcher it for a weak console.

>> No.5705140

>>5701379
Wolf3D also gets going the moment you pick a difficulty level, while UU is dry and slow like shit, taking forever until it feels like it's actually starting for real.

This one guy obsessed with UU reminds me of the fucking nerds back in the day who accused Quake of assassinating point and click adventures, as if that shit wasn't depleted as a genre by the early 2000s.

>> No.5705153

>>5703021
Why would you play Quake on an old console when you could use Quakespasm and enjoy not just mouselook, but also Scourge Of Armagon, Dissolution Of Eternity, Dimensions Of The Past, and Arcane Dimensions?

I'm sure it's still fun to play, the core gameplay is still there, but you're missing out on the expansions and the high tier map packs.

>> No.5705183

>>5704807
Early builds used a more 'warpy' renderer, but it was supposedly running fairly smoothly.
Carmack couldn't stand the texture warping, and given that he was actually having some trouble getting Quake's rendering to properly behave, it could be an expression of his frustrations.
The only reason the Playstation port ran well enough and got away with texture warping was that Carmack was absent at the time, and Romero approved it, otherwise it likely would have gotten the same treatment.

>> No.5705186

>>5704935
The base game ran smooth on a 486.

>> No.5705203

>>5703021
The old Wii homebrew port was honestly entertaining as hell with dat wagglan. Got me to actually give it a legit playthrough

>> No.5705225

>>5703729
PC elitists are so dumb.
They're so dumb.

>> No.5705234

>still got it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ax2Q6zPevo

>> No.5705237

>>5705153
I don't want mouselook, I prefer the controller. I can use mouselook when I need quickness and accuracy in online fps games.

But you're right I should probably try to get into the modding community.

>> No.5705247

>>5705225
>Preferring stripped down gimped Version with bad controls to the full experience with excellent controls

>> No.5705258

>>5705237
Quakespasm supports gamepads, I use one in my left hand and a mouse in my right.

>> No.5705278

>>5705247
Yeah. I mean, I'd be willing to make concessions for a handheld version, like GBA Doom is far from perfect, but it's still Doom, and it fit snugly in my pocket, so that counted for a lot, but the Sega Saturn + a TV set isn't what most people would consider a portable, so unless you already had a Saturn in like 1997 or something, and thought "Hey, I don't have a PC/my PC isn't strong enough, but that game looks cool!", I don't see a lot of appeal in playing a lot of these ports in this day and age.

>> No.5705282

>>5705183

the playstation version doesn't have texture warping (it renders columns individually using triangles) and carmack helped work on it himself though

>> No.5705296

>>5705186
Even on my 486 DX4 it can still chug in a few places. Doom 2 is even worse.

>> No.5705317

>>5699106
Based big dimes Carmack not giving a shit about the no drawing Saturn.

>> No.5705409

>>5705247
There's nothing stripped down about Quake 64 whatsoever. There are slight parts of some maps taken out but it's barely noticeable and frankly, they took out the boring parts like a better film cut.
>my PC can play it at 250fps at 4k while the N64 is only playing it at 30fps at 280p.
I am not interested in high resolutions or framerates for the original quake in single player as they don't improve it. Like the mouse, framerate is important if you want to be competitive online. Otherwise as long as it doesn't drop, and unlike other games N64 can handle quake really well, who cares.

>> No.5705418

>>5705409
(continued)
Try reading this review, note how he says "in some ways better than the PC version": https://www.reddit.com/r/n64/comments/5v3ll6/indepth_review_quake_64/

>> No.5705471

>>5705409
Mouse aim will always be preferable you will never convince me otherwise like what you want I will always consider you retarded for preferring the n64 version to the PC version

>> No.5705498

>>5705471
Well don't call me retarded just because I don't share your opinion then you fucking asshole.

>> No.5705506

>>5705498
You know what, FUCK you, retard. I've had enough of your autism. I will not and cannot tolerate someone enjoying a port of a game on a console, even though it does not directly harm me or affect me in any way whatsoever. I hate when people are having fun. FUCK.

>> No.5705510

>>5705140
>the fucking nerds back in the day who accused Quake of assassinating point and click adventures, as if that shit wasn't depleted as a genre by the early 2000s.
niggarium what

>> No.5705516

>>5704594
t. profoundly dumb and ignorant 4chan poster
Now shoo, zoomie boomie doomie. Shoo back to /v/.

>> No.5705523

>>5705498
I'm going to call you retarded for it rather you like it or not

>> No.5705553

>>5700620
Yes. Fuck doomlets

>> No.5705648 [SPOILER] 
File: 55 KB, 512x512, 1562023213293.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5705648

>>5699106
Wow. People change their opinions over time!

>> No.5705695

>>5705510
There were some people who bitched and moaned like that, yeah.
Don't know how common this was though.

>> No.5705982

>>5699106
He looks like a proto-Tim Sweeney.

>> No.5706005

>>5699106
who?

>> No.5707335

>>5705097
Sounds like the writer for Deus Ex

>> No.5707434

>>5699106
why the fuck is he so smug in every picture

>> No.5707491
File: 49 KB, 400x438, pussy-snorkeling-world-champion.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5707491

>>5707335
Which one of them?

>>5707434
Because he's a chad and he knows it.

>> No.5707580

>>5705203
Fuck this brings me back to when I first put homebrew on the wii and loaded up quake. It was cool as hell playing with a wiimote.