Let's have an in-depth discussion of this game. >inb4 "cryptic" >inb4 "burn every bush and bomb every wall" meme

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Anonymous Thu Jun 27 20:46:33 2019 No.5695909 [Reply] [Original]

Let's have an in-depth discussion of this game.

>inb4 "cryptic"
>inb4 "burn every bush and bomb every wall" meme

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 27 20:47:25 2019 No.5695910 What do you do first when you start a new game?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 27 20:51:56 2019 No.5695923 >>5695910 I grab everything I can find before even entering the first dungeon. >big shield >blue candle >arrows >bombs >two heart containers >white sword >red potion >power bracelet >blue ring

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 27 22:12:02 2019 No.5696109 >>5695923 Based. The first boss literally cannot hurt you if you have the big shield.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 28 15:56:32 2019 No.5697795 Okay, but for real. How the fuck was I supposed to know to play the whistle at the lake to reveal Dungeon 7?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 28 15:58:52 2019 No.5697808 >>5695923 >white sword Wut?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 28 16:02:23 2019 No.5697820 >>5697808 You never found the white sword? It's on top of the waterfall and you need five hearts to get it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 28 16:10:48 2019 No.5697846 >>5695910 I usually just go straight to the first dungeon and beat it cause it's fun and quick.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 28 16:13:04 2019 No.5697850 This game was incredible for its time, giving you almost the full map to explore right from the start of the game, made each bit of progress feel like a discovery

Anonymous Fri Jun 28 16:14:21 2019 No.5697854

Had a lot of fun with this because of how short it is. Whenever I got lost, I'd just reset and play through up until the point I was stuck, looking for things I had missed.
My final run took me less than a half hour and I felt like I'd gotten a very satisfying arcade-like experience.

Anonymous Fri Jun 28 16:17:30 2019 No.5697867

>>5695910
I grab the wooden sword and do the first level. It's not hard and minimizes the amount of grinding for rupees.

Once I have 60 rupees I grab the candle and use it to grab more rupees. By then I'll usually have bombs but if not then I buy them next.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 28 16:19:25 2019 No.5697871 Does anybody else save-warp back to the first screen when they're in trouble to keep the death counter at zero?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 28 16:24:47 2019 No.5697876 >>5695923 I'm this type of player. I suck at this game, so the first thing I do is get a more powerful sword, bigger shield, more hearts, and some armor.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 28 16:49:30 2019 No.5697938 >>5697871 Hell yeah. Maxed out saved file with no deaths looks cool.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 28 23:29:56 2019 No.5698630 second quest is some bullshit

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 28 23:51:17 2019 No.5698670 >>5698630 Those fucking red and blue bubbles drive me crazy.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 28 23:57:00 2019 No.5698673 >>5697867 You can easily grind bombs from moblins outside level 3. They will drop them even if you've never had them before.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 29 01:16:54 2019 No.5698790 Holy fuck, I can NEVER seem to remember where to find the second dungeon. I've beaten this game countless times, but trying to find that dungeon always drives me crazy.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 29 01:24:59 2019 No.5698802 Little known fact: This game is called The Legend of Zelda in North America.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 29 02:02:26 2019 No.5698852 >>5698802 Yes, and the poor translation and lack of voice functionality make it an inferior game.

Anonymous Sat Jun 29 06:29:56 2019 No.5699178
File: 1.69 MB, 4032x2529, k9AAOmx.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Do you actually think Botw borrows from this game in terms of design? I won't negate that 3D game with no frontiers is the logical conclusion of games, but I don't see how they play the same. In LoZ1 you have access to the whole map, but it is very tiny. You move back and forth until you find how to progress. In a sense, it is less about discovering new lands and more about re-discovering new dungeons

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 29 13:03:34 2019 No.5699919 >>5699178 Breath Of The Wild took the spirit of this game and re-imagined it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 29 13:11:22 2019 No.5699936 >>5695909 Very bad game.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 29 13:35:56 2019 No.5699990 >>5699936 Care to explain? I think it's one of the greatest games of all time.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 29 14:50:24 2019 No.5700123 >>5698790 Head east of the starting screen and look in the woods near the coastline.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 29 15:07:11 2019 No.5700154 >>5699178 Botw is just Zelda 1 in 3D

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 29 15:13:51 2019 No.5700171 >>5698852 This game with the original translation, voice functionality, map, and manual is an entirely different experience. It's a real shame that modern audiences can't experience it the way it was meant to be played.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 29 16:44:50 2019 No.5700380 >>5700171 wait is there a Zelda 1 with the correct translation and map?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 29 16:45:48 2019 No.5700382 >>5700380 Nah, but you can read about it. https://legendsoflocalization.com/the-legend-of-zelda/first-quest/

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 29 22:44:51 2019 No.5701020 >>5700382 >There are secrets where fairies don't live. >There's a secret in the pond without a fairy. Japanese text was much more helpful.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 30 02:04:32 2019 No.5701341 movement & combat feels too stiff

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 30 02:05:19 2019 No.5701346 >>5701341 git gud

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 30 02:08:22 2019 No.5701353 >>5701346 what's weird is that i played through the whole thing a few years ago with none of those problems, and i was on keyboard..

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 30 02:10:05 2019 No.5701361 >>5699178 BOTW has next to nothing in common with Zelda 1 and as far as I'm concerned anyone who says otherwise didn't actually play the first game and are just quoting e-celebs

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 30 02:13:13 2019 No.5701370 >>5701353 Four directions probably works better on keyboard. With a d-pad you'll want to press a diagonal.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 30 02:16:38 2019 No.5701378 >>5701370 true, but i also tried with keyboard recently and it still felt weird. wonder if you could hook up the keyboard from the famicom basic to function as a controller...

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 30 02:20:20 2019 No.5701381 >>5699990 It relies on being in grade school and talking to people who are also playing it for the first time, sharing tips and rumors. It was explicitly designed this way. For most people to enjoy Zelda today, you need a walkthrough and some mods.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 30 10:36:16 2019 No.5701993 >>5696109 The first boss dies to a couple bombs.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 30 10:37:22 2019 No.5701997 I imagine red potion tastes like ruby red squirt

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 30 10:40:04 2019 No.5702007 Why is zelda 1 the only zelda game where bombs are actually useful? Destructible walls are everywhere unlike later games, plus the time is short and actually do significant damage. Why has nintendo implemented them similarly in later titles?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 30 10:41:06 2019 No.5702009 >>5701381 >some mods. Huh?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 30 10:46:16 2019 No.5702023 >>5702007 bombchus are fucking broken and let you walk on air

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 30 11:12:14 2019 No.5702078 >>5702023 Glitchy isn't quite the same thing as designed to be useful

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 30 11:20:42 2019 No.5702106 >>5701381 >Grade schoolers are smarter than modern adults Woah

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 30 12:25:33 2019 No.5702263 >>5700154 In spirit maybe, and admittedly I haven't played BotW, but how is it "just Zelda 1 in 3D" when it has no dungeons? One or two room shrines are not the same.

Anonymous Sun Jun 30 12:44:24 2019 No.5702343
File: 265 KB, 1000x720, Zelda NES Manual Page 7.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5701381
Nah, it's perfectly playable with the original manual and map. Thats how the developers intended it. I don't consider them walkthroughs, since they shipped with the game.

Anonymous Sun Jun 30 18:13:28 2019 No.5703054

>>5695909
I mean, the bomb shit is rather annoying to do, and I say that as someone who likes the game. You can at least get the red candle to make burning easier, you have to grind up/purchase more bombs after you use a handful, even after seeking out the upgrades. It's not like most of the locations are telegraphed, some of them are just completely uniform walls.

Anonymous Sun Jun 30 18:26:35 2019 No.5703079

>>5699178
Botw tries but by virtue of having a huge and real open world the level design goes into the shitter.
Every area in LoZ is interesting to navigate or serves a purpose, most of BOTW map is there just for flavour. Also, no real and dangerous dungeon is a HUGE flaw, and if we compare it to LoZ the problem just becomes even more apparent.

Also, not blocking progression behind items but only having dumb fisher price "puzzles" feels way less rewarding than getting items that let you go in new places.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 30 18:53:05 2019 No.5703142 >>5703054 Only really on the overworld. Dungeon bomb spots can get pretty obvious

Anonymous Sun Jun 30 18:55:21 2019 No.5703148

>>5703079
I feel like this is something that really got lost between 2d and 3d.
2d spaces are so much easier to just be packed full of stuff on each screen. You can't do the same with 3d.
I think it's also helped by the fact that 2d games can get a lot more abstract. A couple tree sprites can represent a forest. In 3d you would have to build a whole forest.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 30 19:45:28 2019 No.5703263 >>5695909 I remember being super frustrated with this game as a child because i couldn't figure out anything past the first dungeon.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 30 20:18:26 2019 No.5703337 >>5695909 I mean, in the end it's basically Atari 2600 Adventure with a drastically bigger scope (due to improved tech) and a lot of extra polish. But that polish really matters.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 30 20:36:15 2019 No.5703372 >>5702263 It has five main dungeons. Six if you count the DLC.

Anonymous Sun Jun 30 20:54:40 2019 No.5703424
File: 68 KB, 1920x1080, stuck.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Playing this now just because of this thread, got to this part, wtf.

I already bombed the left wall (leading to the flute) and am now trying to go back to the rest of the dungeon but the top door is locked and none of the blocks can be pushed to open it. I had to go into the next room to kill myself to restart the dungeon. But what if I entered this room originally, killed the Gibdos, and wasted all my bombs and didn't find that left opening? I'd be soft-locked and had to reset the whole game if I didn't save?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 30 21:34:24 2019 No.5703524 >>5703424 Some blocks will only be able to be moved once all the enemies in the room are defeated. Remember that room with all the knights? Good luck.

Anonymous Sun Jun 30 21:59:40 2019 No.5703558

>>5703524
Yeah that's my point, this room in pic was full of Gibdos. I killed them and none of the blocks move. Luckily I used one of my bombs on the left wall, but it is a dead-end. You kill the knights, push the block, use the stairs, get the flute, have to return to this room and I can't exit north. I know there is a bombable wall on the right but the issue is I have 0 bombs left so I can't do that, and if I hadn't already bombed the left I would seemingly be trapped in this room forever forcing a system restart. Unless there is another way to unlock that door?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 30 22:00:31 2019 No.5703560 >>5695909 Has this game aged well?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 30 22:04:28 2019 No.5703573 >>5703372 >the Divine Beasts >dungeons Hardly. They're basically just bigger shrines, with five or six puzzles intermingled into one area.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 30 22:12:48 2019 No.5703587 >>5703424 Doesnt the flute take you back to the entrance? If not ab select start on player 2 takes you to continue/ save screen

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 30 22:16:27 2019 No.5703592 >>5703587 Flute didn't work for me, tried that too. Didn't know about controller 2 but it really shouldn't have to come to that :/ I'm surprised if there's no way to undo that locked door that slipped by testing.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 30 22:26:53 2019 No.5703612 >>5701381 >need mods to play Zelda 1 PCfag strikes again

Anonymous Sun Jun 30 22:37:08 2019 No.5703636

>>5703424
>>5703592
I double checked and the room does have a drop-- Bombs, in fact. But one of the Gibdos is carrying them, so it's possible a player could grab the bombs and use them to try and kill the Gibdos rather than look for passages. If the Bombs only appeared after the Gibdos were defeated, it'd be a better heavy lesson on "bomb walls to find exits", so you have a point.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 30 22:46:28 2019 No.5703668 >>5701381 Look at this loser over here, look at him and laugh.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 30 22:56:33 2019 No.5703690 >>5703424 This room fucking sucks. I remember this part being really confusing.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 30 23:04:04 2019 No.5703706 >>5697795 Old man in dungeon 6: >THERE ARE SECRETS WHERE FAIRIES DON'T LIVE.

Anonymous Sun Jun 30 23:17:57 2019 No.5703728

Good game, one of the best Zeldas.

Pros:
- very open world, lots of freedom and sense of exploration
- no BS story to stop you, just 100% pure gameplay

Cons:
- only revived with 3 hearts after death, forcing you to grind to heal so you can try again
- re-uses bosses a lot in later dungeons
- arrows cost 1 rupee per shot
- bombs can be hard to come by, restricting some exploration for fear of having to go grind/buy bombs

Neutral:
- mostly focused on action and fighting, can be a pro or con depending on what you want, but does not have much in the way of puzzles like later games

Anonymous Sun Jun 30 23:22:56 2019 No.5703734

The simplicity of the original Zelda is its most appealing trait. Miyamoto wanted the game to emulate his memories of adventuring in hillside forests as a child, and it really captures that feeling. The lack of direction and the way each screen is presented as its own little diorama that needs to be "solved" on its own terms gives it a sense of moment-to-moment purpose and intention without taking the player by the hand. From A Link to the Past onward, Zelda became too involved in its own lore and high-fantasy tropes, culminating in the ridiculous "official timeline" debacle. The story of Zelda has never been particularly rich, and as technology and presentation standards for video games advance, we move away from the "interactive playground" design philosophy and more into self-serious, "Important" narratives, which clash heavily with Zelda's self-imposed simplicity. Zelda was a game meant to be played sitting down on the floor trying to nail the next enemy or find the next item, not checking FAQs for one of 999 useless trinkets, or discussing "the lore" on a subreddit. The overt surface-level analysis, obsessive theorycrafting, and more = better philosophy of modern games is what's ruined gameplay in general.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 30 23:29:19 2019 No.5703747 >>5703728 >grinding hearts Nigga, there're two faerie springs near the starting point. >>5697867 >grinding rupees Nigga, there's like ₹500 free all over the map. There's literally no need to ever grind, ever.

Anonymous Mon Jul 1 00:06:48 2019 No.5703792

>>5703747
Faerie spring isn't going to help when you're in some faraway dungeon and respawn.

For grinding, you kinda do if you want to get any decent gear at reasonable time. Just to proceed you have to buy arrows, blue candle, bait, and you'll probably want the blue ring too. I know it's the first game so I didn't list this as a con since the formula wasn't cemented yet, but I don't like the idea of Link having to buy half his gear instead of just finding it in dungeons.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 1 00:12:19 2019 No.5703805 >>5703792 Yeah, later games make money completely useless. First game got it right.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 1 02:08:20 2019 No.5704064 I think this game is great but I hate the combat. Do any of the remakes like the SNES satellite one handle any better? NES version feels so imprecise and unresponsive when you got a swarm of 6 tektites jumping all over you.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 1 06:42:57 2019 No.5704413 >>5701361 You make progress by exploring, without guidance, and neither game has the hookshot in. That's it. That's where it ends.

Anonymous Mon Jul 1 07:01:42 2019 No.5704431

>>5703734
I would be okay with this whole 'official timeline' stuff if the stories were any good. But honestly, they never are.
Zelda 1 might have one of the best stories in the series, because it's mostly told through implications, and it subtly deconstructs typical DnD heroic fantasy, by showing such monster-filled world as a somber, desolate wasteland where few remainders of humanity hide in caves, with no real towns or economy. Subtext is everything.

Anonymous Mon Jul 1 07:03:41 2019 No.5704435

>>5702263
It's not really Zelda 1 in 3D - if anything, Breath of the Wild is all the parts of Zelda 1 that didn't carry over to future games, revived. Because all future games after 1 focus on complex and elaborate dungeons, and not on open world - this game focuses on open world instead, and dungeons are just a cherry on top.

Anonymous Mon Jul 1 07:05:17 2019 No.5704436

>>5702343
I love this artwork. I think it intentionally looks like anime stills, with detailed painted backgrounds and cel-shaded characters.

And that is fitting, Zelda 1 always gave me a vibe of a Ghibli movie. Yes, Ganon won, world is destroyed, but that's all in the past now, and the story is about a lonely journey of one boy, and the sheer wonder of nature and adventure.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 1 07:06:19 2019 No.5704438 >>5701381 Then explain me. I played Zelda, and beat it by myself in couple of hours with zero need for walkthrough.

Anonymous Mon Jul 1 07:08:51 2019 No.5704441

>>5699178
Consider this:
Adventure on Atari 2600 wanted to create a game with an open world and a sense of adventure. It didn't really succeed, but it created a genre.

Zelda 1 on NES tried to do the same, and fared much better, as the hardware was vastly improved. Still, there was something missing.

Years later, Breath of the Wild would take a crack at the same concept - and emerge victorious.

BotW is the game that creators of Zelda 1 dreamed of making, but had to make due with technical limitations. It's the promise of Zelda 1, realized.

Anonymous Mon Jul 1 07:43:28 2019 No.5704483

>>5701361
This fascination with people parroting youtubers is more cringey than the actual youtubers to me, and that is quite the feat. Nintendo themselves made the comparison, dipshit. Several times.
>Z-ZOOMIE WOOMIE
Both you and the people you bitch about can die. God Bless.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 1 07:44:09 2019 No.5704485 >>5702263 >no dungeons It has the Divine Beasts and Hyrule Castle. This is such a dumb meme.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 1 07:48:05 2019 No.5704492 >>5695909 I play through the first dungeon and then continue wandering around for a bit and get bored and stop playing. I've never progressed further than that, even as a little kid.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 1 07:49:36 2019 No.5704493 >>5704438 >I played Zelda, and beat it by myself in couple of hours with zero need for walkthrough. You probably already knew a lot of the trickier secrets from people talking about the game online.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 1 07:51:37 2019 No.5704494 >>5704441 Fuck of shiguru

Anonymous Mon Jul 1 08:25:53 2019 No.5704530

>>5703792
>Faerie spring isn't going to help when you're in some faraway dungeon and respawn.
By the time this becomes an issue you should have found the power bracelet and can warp to the faerie easily.
>For grinding, you kinda do if you want to get any decent gear at reasonable time.
only if you don't know where the free rupees are.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 1 08:27:57 2019 No.5704536 File: 474 KB, 2101x2155, 1561984077696.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] a few years ago out of curiosity I sketched out a graph of the gates/dependencies in LoZ. It's rather impressive how much you can do from the moment you spawn.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 1 08:31:07 2019 No.5704541 File: 476 KB, 2101x2059, 1561984267004.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5704536 minor fix

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 1 09:07:30 2019 No.5704574 >>5703792 >>5703728 why not just carry potions?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 1 09:10:51 2019 No.5704582 Never player the original Zelda, but am I really to believe that some grown ups are finding a 80s game hard to beat? lmao.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 1 09:12:18 2019 No.5704583 File: 2.19 MB, 1713x2048, 9626967676_b8697d912f_k.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5704582 it's called having a learning disability, anon.

Anonymous Mon Jul 1 09:17:53 2019 No.5704592

>>5703792
>Faerie spring ain't gonna help if you die in a far away dungeon
Brosephine Bronaparte, by the time you need to go to any dungeon that far, you'll already have access to almost three times the hearts you actually have currently. For example Level 5 is the earliest one that would be "far from a faerie spring." Well, by that time, you'd have 11 heart containers, right? Plus a red potion which means you'd have at least 31 hearts. Are you really telling me that 31 hearts isn't enough by that point?

>grinding is necessary to get decent gear at a reasonable time
Get 100 rupees from the northwest corner of the map then buy a 60 rupee candle and 20 rupee bombs. With these, you can find another 200 rupees plus more. All you need to get in the early game are the blue ring (250 rupees) and shield (90), which you can easily afford with all the free money lying around. AND you can get two heart containers and the white sword right off the bat. After Level-1, you should have enough for a red potion, not that you'll need it.
And you don't need the arrows or bait for quite a while yet. Just get them later with what rupees you find along the way.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 1 09:26:08 2019 No.5704604 >>5704541 >>5704536 based

Anonymous Mon Jul 1 09:43:32 2019 No.5704631

>>5704592
>Get 100 rupees from the northwest corner of the map then buy a 60 rupee candle and 20 rupee bombs. With these, you can find another 200 rupees plus more.
Yes, anon, games designed around figuring out to do and finding secrets are much easier when you know exactly what to do and how to access every secret. You're not thinking about the experience of someone who hasn't memorized every inch of the game.

Anonymous Mon Jul 1 10:55:41 2019 No.5704712

>>5704541
The interesting thing to me about this is how you can enter many dungeon levels and accomplish something meaningful right from the beginning of the game.

1, 2 and 3 are completely open.
5 and 6 require solving map puzzles that can be done at any time and have no other requirements.
8 requires only the candle, a common shop item.

That leaves only 4(raft) and 7(whistle) that require a dungeon-obtained key item to access(plus level 9 obviously). Actually reaching the boss, defeating it, and obtaining the triforce piece may have additional requirements but you can at least go inside and poke around a bit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 1 11:08:52 2019 No.5704726 >>5704541 This is such a great idea. Are there more like this for other games?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 1 11:11:13 2019 No.5704729 >>5704726 Also, what software do you use for this?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 1 11:24:03 2019 No.5704742 >>5704431 post-facto story telling is fanfiction

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 1 11:32:57 2019 No.5704754 >>5704493 I love that it's completely impossible for you to wrap your head around the very idea that a person can beat a game for small children from the 80s without any outside help.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 1 11:46:59 2019 No.5704783 >>5704754 I'm only suggesting that someone new to the game won't know all those secrets and will inevitably need to grind for rupees at some point to get certain items.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 1 11:52:10 2019 No.5704789 >>5704754 Because even those small children in the 80s were given a half-complete, labelled world map and a manual that contained a walkthrough up to the first like 2 dungeons to get them started.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 1 11:54:52 2019 No.5704797 >>5704789 Your fault for emulating then.

Anonymous Mon Jul 1 11:58:19 2019 No.5704801

>>5704797
What does that have to do with anything? The manual and map are available online for anyone who cares to find them, that's not the point. My point is you can't pretend like they don't count as outside help or deny that people used that supplementary information to help them beat the game. Not a single kid who played Zelda 1 when it was new did so completely blind, they DID have outside help.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 1 11:59:17 2019 No.5704804 >>5704801 They're not outside help because they come with the game.

Anonymous Mon Jul 1 12:12:44 2019 No.5704829

>>5704804
It's outside help because it's not info available in the game.

Back then it was called "the manual", today people doing the equivalent (talking to other people, using walkthroughs) are called "babies who need handholding". The truth is both constitute outside help.

Anonymous Mon Jul 1 12:19:13 2019 No.5704838

>>5704431
The "official timeline" is clearly bullshit because they were making stories up as they went along, there was never any clear roadmap they were following. If Miyamoto's quote in AVGN's video about it is true the guy clearly has NO IDEA what he is talking about because he places the games in a totally different order than literally every other source at the time, and his makes no sense either. Timeline is just Aonuma or whoever was in charge at the time retroactively trying to jam square pieces into circular holes to appease fans who demanded a connection between the games.

But I will say if even they are loosely connected, I do like how OoT the Time of Time is a full structure, TP it is mostly decayed with only a few walls standing, but still has the Master Sword pedastal (though somehow retconed to be inside the Lost Woods, not Castle Town), LttP it is so long after the forest has totally taken over all the ruins, and only the Master Sword platform remains, and by LoZ possibly a milenium or more has passed and even that is gone, the woods are now brown and have died out themselves. It's really cool atmospherically and tells a lot of the setting without some multi-dimensional bullshit.

Anonymous Mon Jul 1 12:21:06 2019 No.5704841

>>5704801
>ot a single kid who played Zelda 1 when it was new did so completely blind
wrong lots of kids played rentals where the map+manual had been lost or stolen.
That was the case with me. I didn't find Level-2 until much later in the game than is typical, but I still found it even without the map that shows you where it is. And I was like 7 or 8 years old.

Anonymous Mon Jul 1 12:27:09 2019 No.5704857

>>5695923
Same. I also try to get anything else that cant be accessed at as soon as I get the item needed for it from the dungeon its located in. I do the dungeons in order, although I should try doing an out of order playthrough sometime. I usually play through the randomizer nowadays though. That has made the games replayability limitless

Anonymous Mon Jul 1 12:29:26 2019 No.5704862

>>5704838
Miyamoto thinks of Mario characters as actors who can fit whatever roles necessary depending on the game. I suspect that he probably thinks the same about the Zelda franchise. Not caring a whole lot about story and more interesting in making a fun and unique game and any weird story contradictions are considered irrelevant.
Aonuma probably cares more about the story, since he's gone on record about being utterly terrible at actually playing Zelda.

Anonymous Mon Jul 1 12:36:47 2019 No.5704874

>>5704829
you are a retard
when people talk about hand-holding they mean something completely fucking different. Hand-holding is when the game doesn't let you fail. The game doesn't let you make bad decisions and learn from it. The game doesn't give you the freedom to explore and figure things out for yourself. The game doesn't let you proceed until you have learned some specific thing because god forbid you wind up in a situation later on not having learned something right away.

The contents of the Zelda manual and map could easily be in an in-game reference section in a modern game, and no one would call it hand-holding.

But even then, there is a difference between being in a game and having a glowy dot on a map saying "GO HERE NEXT" and having a paper map you have to look at that just has a number "1" marked on it, along with a 2 and the 3. The former puts pressure on to do what you are """supposed""" to do, while the latter leaves the choice to the player.

When people talk about "babies who need hand-holding" they're talking about bitchy fags who complain the moment they get the slightest hint of anxiety about not knowing exactly which task they are supposed to perform next in a game about open exploration.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 1 12:39:41 2019 No.5704883 >>5704530 >only if you don't know where the free rupees are. New players won't know, so hence the grind.

Anonymous Mon Jul 1 12:45:14 2019 No.5704894

>>5704574
>>5704592
>die in level 5
>respawn with 3 hearts
>hurp durp gotta use a potion
>already 1/2 wasted just to get back on your feet leaving you with 1 serving left to beat the dungeon instead of the 2 you rightfully paid for

There is no excusing respawning with 3 hearts. Metroid did that same shit, load a game and have to grind out health to refill your subtanks. It's just an archaic and bad design choice to pad out the length.

>go get free rupees

Easy to say when you magically know all the secret locations after 30 years of playing this game. Tell a newbie it's "so easy" to find all this free shit when they don't know the locations.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 1 12:48:31 2019 No.5704901 >>5704883 you're only ever a new player once. This game wasn't designed to be played once then thrown in the trash.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 1 12:48:33 2019 No.5704902 >>5704894 It's almost like they have to play the game or something. We get it, it was too hard for you so you used walkthroughs and save states, then said the game was boring and dumb.

Anonymous Mon Jul 1 12:55:30 2019 No.5704920

>>5704902
A lot of ASSumptions you're making there. I beat this back in the early 90s on my NES. Having to leave a dungeon to go hunt down a faerie and then having to go right back to the dungeon start where you originally were is just a complete waste of time. Pointless walking back and forth that didn't need to be there. The meat of the game is the dungeon and exploration, not fetch-quest faerie hunting just so you can jump back into the important part of the game that matters. Do you also defend having to stand at a pipe shooting out flying beetles for 20 minutes to grind out health for your Metroid subtanks? Is that valuable and rewarding gameplay as well?

Anonymous Mon Jul 1 13:05:22 2019 No.5704938

>>5704894
anon the point of a potion is to use it before you die.
The point of dying is to be a punishment for fucking up otherwise why not just have infinite health?
Having to go outside to see a fairy, buy more potions, or get more bombs gives you a reason to travel across the world and maybe discover shit like, I don't know, free rupees or heart containers hidden under bushes. It gives you time to think about whether you want to go back to beat your head against those Darknuts again, or if you want to go try something else.
>There is no excusing respawning with 3 hearts.
There absolutely is if you think about it for more than 1 second. Respawning with full health gives a fucked-up incentive to die in certain situations. Reach the entrance of a dungeon on low health. Just die on purpose to the first enemy, then you can start at full.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 1 13:08:15 2019 No.5704941 >>5704894 Level 5 isn't even one of the hard levels though

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 1 13:10:20 2019 No.5704943 >>5704920 Stop dying so much and this wouldn't be a problem.

Anonymous Mon Jul 1 13:10:36 2019 No.5704946

>>5704938
The punishment is already having to re-do the dungeon and lose your progress in it. Restarting you with 3 hearts is almost giving you the middle finger because it's like "here you can try again... if you're stupid" because if you couldn't beat it with 12 hearts there's on way you will with 3. Respawning with full hearts would encourage you to get back into the action and try again, not leave you with the feeling of having to give up and go somewhere else for a while. Kind of the opposite of exploration there.

>>5704941
Other anon gave level 5 as an example, not me, I didn't say it was hard or not.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 1 13:24:03 2019 No.5704962 >>5704946 to be honest, if I thought dying again on a level would be an issue, I would probably have to leave and come back with more bombs and potions anyway. Regardless of my current HP.

Anonymous Mon Jul 1 13:48:08 2019 No.5704987
File: 317 KB, 516x1924, zelda-fairy-50.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5704946
Just to be clear on the scope we are talking about here, Level-5 is probably the most remote normal dungeon and furthest from a fairy than any other dungeon but Level-9. The dungeon where you expect to die a lot (Level-6) has a warp point and potion vendor right next door (as well as a the best grind spot in the game in the graveyard). Level-5 also has one, but you can only use it incoming because the eastern entrance to the mountain puzzle is a one-way transition.

The total amount of time it takes to run from the entrance to the fairy and then back to the dungeon entrance is 1 minute, 45 seconds (without using save&quit). This is the absolutely crushing punishment that anon is whining about.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 1 13:49:56 2019 No.5704990 >>5704987 also it would be shorter if I had memorized the warp zone rules instead of just taking the rightmost staircase until I get to the one I want.

Anonymous Mon Jul 1 14:28:14 2019 No.5705048

>>5704946
>Restarting you with 3 hearts is almost giving you the middle finger because it's like "here you can try again... if you're stupid" because if you couldn't beat it with 12 hearts there's on way you will with 3.
That's not true though, because in some cases progress is permanent. Once you obtain the whistle and bomb upgrade in Level-5, for example, you don't have to kill any more blue Darknut. In some cases you might have found dead-ends, or other traps and bullshit that you know about and can avoid now. There are plenty of situations where I'd feel comfortable heading into a dungeon with only 3 hearts.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 1 16:42:23 2019 No.5705345 How do you deal with blue wizzrobes? Those guys are assholes that teleport on top of me and then walk around shooting beams like a machine gun. It wouldn't really be so bad if half the rooms they're in also didn't contain bubbles to take away the sword.

Anonymous Mon Jul 1 16:52:24 2019 No.5705361

>>5705345
Magic shield protects from their beams. It's really a matter of playing very defensively and striking when you're safe.
Bombs and the upgraded magic rod are also good for this. Remember the rod upgrade is only a few rooms into level 8, so it's practical and easy to get it as soon as possible.

Anonymous Mon Jul 1 17:06:48 2019 No.5705402

>>5705361
The rod didn't seem to damage them at all, even with the book. Maybe I wasn't hitting them right. Big shield is fairly useless since the wizzrobes appear right with the Like-likes and those SOBs ate my shield right away.

Anyway I beat the game now, I'm just curious. They were the hardest part, especially that one room in dungeon 6 where it had yellow and blue wizzrobes with bubbles and like-likes at all once.

Anonymous Mon Jul 1 18:26:12 2019 No.5705575

>>5705402
wand doesn't hurt wizrobes, not sure what that anon was talking about. I think the wand might be able to damage them if you strike them with it directly but there's no real reason to do that when you could just use your sword instead. (The wand hits with the strength of the white sword)

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 1 18:37:25 2019 No.5705592 >>5705575 >not sure what that anon was talking about. I was misremembering I guess.

Anonymous Mon Jul 1 20:46:20 2019 No.5705802

>>5695909
The game is good for one playthrough. After you learn where everything is you can beat it in about an hour and it loses all sense of mystery. Exploring and finding secrets is the whole point and that's lost by the second run. You get a second quest but the same idea applies.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 1 21:06:30 2019 No.5705846 >>5705802 >the more familiar you are with something, the less mysterious it is. No shit, sherlock. That applies to more stuff than zelda 1.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 1 21:19:16 2019 No.5705873 >>5705802 Good thing sense of mystery isn't and never has been the only reason to play it, even for first-time players. Seriously what an inane thing to say.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 02:21:58 2019 No.5706264 This guy >>5703424 again, I beat the game again today. Last night was 47 deaths. Today's was 4, which I could have sworn I died more, but it says 4. Is this was gitting gud feels like?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 05:30:02 2019 No.5706427 File: 114 KB, 560x720, 01-item-graph.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5704541 Compared to OoT

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 05:48:14 2019 No.5706432 >>5704754 in a couple hours? This is absurd yes. Some of the secrets are not even hinted at correctly.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 07:16:03 2019 No.5706508 >>5703148 Absolutely true, it's just easier to have tight game design with 2D because it's more abstract. To me it's really hard to think of a tight 3D game that is as well designed as most 2D games.

Anonymous Tue Jul 2 12:34:41 2019 No.5706950
File: 133 KB, 538x1145, alttp-digraph-inprogress.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5706427
Yeah, Ocarina is so linear. To be fair, doing Ocarina using the same rules that I did would result in a larger and more complex graph than that, but you'd still have a LONG chain of mostly linear requirements before obtaining the Master Sword.

I'm working on one for ALTTP and it's more similar to Ocarina, although the first phase isn't quite as linear. (The big difference between ALTTP and OoT doesn't show up on a graph like this, which is that ALTTP light world and its dungeons are full of enemies and challenge while Ocarina's first phase is mostly NPCs and puzzles with only little bits of combat).

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 12:58:41 2019 No.5707018 >>5703148 >You can't do the same with 3d. You can, it's just difficult and have to deliberately constrain yourself to building "levels" as opposed to "places". (example: Dark Souls 1).

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 13:34:13 2019 No.5707087 Unplayable because of the snail-paced screen transitions. Even worse than Super Metroid doors.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 13:35:56 2019 No.5707092 >>5706950 >image Can't see shit, cap'n.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 14:38:27 2019 No.5707248 >>5707092 I know, it's not done yet

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 15:07:02 2019 No.5707303 File: 1.27 MB, 2640x5723, alttp-digraph.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5707092 >>5707248 >>5706950 Here you go

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 15:09:25 2019 No.5707312 >>5707303 These graphs are fantastic, can't you squeeze more space?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 15:11:01 2019 No.5707317 >>5707303 ..and I forgot to connect the silver arrow requirement for defeating ganon

Anonymous Tue Jul 2 15:13:31 2019 No.5707323
File: 480 KB, 2341x2019, lozdigraph-ranks.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5707312
I just throw it into graphviz and let the algorithm sort it out what it looks like. I'm not a master at manipulating it, although you can do some things like enforce equal rank. Here's the original LoZ one, this time with equal ranking for triforces 1-3, triforces 4-6, and 7-8.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 15:18:17 2019 No.5707332 Here's the code for the dot files for anyone interested: Loz1: https://pastebin.com/5ztzZiG3 Alttp: https://pastebin.com/8hcmtUW9

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 16:07:44 2019 No.5707425 File: 936 KB, 2276x3520, alttp-digraph-compress.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5707312 This one's a bit smaller

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 16:44:21 2019 No.5707489 File: 99 KB, 513x352, 1505626813803.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5704874 Agreed 100%. Pic related.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 09:12:21 2019 No.5709085 >>5707425 >>5707323 >>5707303 >>5706950 >>5706427 based

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 09:46:57 2019 No.5709113 >>5703573 And they are comparable to Zelda 1 dungeons. The dungeons in Zelda 1 were fairly small. The last dungeon is large, but that's true for both games.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 09:49:03 2019 No.5709115 >>5704829 > reading the manual is handholding You are everything wrong with the current generation.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 10:40:47 2019 No.5709164 >>5709113 The easiest dungeon in LoZ1 is harder than the hardest dungeon in BotW.

Anonymous Wed Jul 3 10:40:58 2019 No.5709165

>>5709113
Yes, Hyrule Castle is the only real dungeon in BotW.
>comparable to Zelda 1 dungeons
>Zelda 1 dungeons, which are 98% combat
>BotW Divine Beasts, which are 99% puzzles
honestly neither of them are very good from a gameplay standpoint. Zelda 1 keeps you on your toes and BotW has some "aha!" moments, I guess.

Anonymous Wed Jul 3 10:49:35 2019 No.5709174

>>5709115
In a way though it is basically cheating. How is it much different than a FAQ or walkthrough when it flat out is telling you where everything is? People always say it was "meant" to be played with the manual, but is that also true for Japan? The Japanese always considered the American audience to be "too dumb" for things like RPGs and I've heard they stuffed the US Zelda manual full of extra hints the Japanese one didn't have just so American kids wouldn't get frustrated and quit. If the Japanese manual didn't have all this extra content then I'd say the game was definitely not meant to be played with a manual in hand and left more to the player to explore and discover secrets.

Anonymous Wed Jul 3 11:37:16 2019 No.5709232

>>5707303
another missing dependency is the flippers for the ice palace.

Alttp has a LOT of redundant dependencies, which is one reason why I find the alttp randomizer can be frustrating to play compared to z1r. The original LoZ is almost designed to be randomized. The content in the original game was obviously crafted to ease a player into it, but if you already know how shit works then randomizing LoZ has a ton of potential.

Meanwhile, ALTTP is designed with a ton of assumptions about items you will have when you reach a certain point, to the point where I didn't even include a lot of them in the graph. For example there's a key in the Desert Palace you need the Pegasus boots to obtain. In the original game, Pegasus boots are a prerequisite for the Book of Mudora, which is required to even enter the Desert Palace in the first place. So in the original, you will never be in a position where you can't get that key because you don't have the p-boots. But in the randomizer, suddenly you CAN have a scenario where you have the book of mudora but not the p-boots. Sometimes this is cool in the way that you're forced to do things in a different order, but it can get frustrating constantly running into roadblocks because it was assumed you'd have some specific item to handle a particular obstacle.

Anonymous Wed Jul 3 11:51:03 2019 No.5709259
File: 1.28 MB, 858x1010, zelda-start2eagle.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5709174
>How is it much different than a FAQ or walkthrough when it flat out is telling you where everything is?
You tell me faggot. Pic-related is the manual. This is the walkthrough: https://www.zeldadungeon.net/the-legend-of-zelda-walkthrough/the-gathering/
If you can't tell the difference between showing you how to reach the first 2 dungeons (in a manual that you probably read for fun in the car on your way to grandma's house or whatever), and a breakdown on how to get all the easily-available overworld upgrades immediately before even entering the first dungeon, I don't know what to fucking tell you.

Anonymous Wed Jul 3 11:56:13 2019 No.5709265
File: 2.15 MB, 2560x947, zeldamap.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5709174
>If the Japanese manual didn't have all this extra content then I'd say the game was definitely not meant to be played with a manual in hand and left more to the player to explore and discover secrets.
This has nothing to do with it. Yes, the game is designed to be played without a manual. But the manual still exists, and the manual is not hand-holding. It's just the manual.
>US Zelda manual full of extra hints the Japanese one didn't have just so American kids wouldn't get frustrated and quit.
US manual had pic-related. Personally I think it's more than necessary. But still, it's just hints that say "hey there is something interesting on this screen" that's it. It's a far cry from the hand-holding experience suggested by >>5707489 or use of the ACTUAL walkthrough linked here: >>5709259

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 12:23:03 2019 No.5709319 File: 460 KB, 1600x1200, s-l1600 (2).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5709265 Notably, that map is also sealed with tape and the player is told "only open this if you really think you need this".

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 12:26:11 2019 No.5709327 >>5709319 ah neat I had forgotten that. I had played and beaten the game several times before I actually owned it, and the rentals never came with the map and only rarely with the manual.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 12:55:14 2019 No.5709384 >>5707425 >>5707323 >>5707303 Zelda threads are getting a little too high IQ to me. It's like we're now playing the games on a theoretical level.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 12:57:31 2019 No.5709391 >>5709384 >How many timelines does your Zelda have >I dunno, two, maybe three? >You are like tiny baby, watch this

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 12:58:23 2019 No.5709394 >>5709391 The timeline where link got the ice rod before entering eastern palace is my favorite timeline.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 13:04:08 2019 No.5709409 Or the timeline where link blew all his rupees on bomb and arrow expansions at the wishing fountain and now can't afford the zora flippers.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 14:49:18 2019 No.5709620 >>5709259 >Go into the cave >Get the sword >Go north >then east into the forest >go north to the lake >go across the bridge >do level 1 LITERAL (literal) hand holding.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 14:53:05 2019 No.5709632 >>5709620 >still too dumb to tell the difference between hints to toward the first level in a game for 7 year olds, and the fucking walkthrough that gets you 3 heart containers, the white sword, and the blue ring. Your idiocy is really incredible.

Anonymous Wed Jul 3 15:06:05 2019 No.5709675
File: 601 KB, 2111x3120, dark-souls-1-digraph.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5709384
well the idea was mainly for analytical comparison purposes and game design/theory. They're not really supposed to be useful for playing the game lol. The original idea came from a Dark Souls discussion where I wanted to compare DkS1 with Zelda 1 and ALTTP. The original graph I made is attached. You can see its general shape is more similar to ALTTP than Zelda 1.

I often praise Zelda 1 specifically as being a game that has a lot of good lessons for game designers, and the open structure is one of those things. The idea behind drawing up graphs like this is that if you were to design an action-adventure of your own, you might consider doing a graph like this and making a conscious decision to either make it more like Zelda 1 or more like ALTTP. Personally, I think that ALTTP's introduction of a more rigid and controlled progression was unfortunate for this style of game. It wasn't really noticeable at the time when playing it, because there's still a great deal of freedom and exploration, but I really appreciated the way Dark Souls 1 has mid-game and and even an end-game zone accessible right away. It made me think of the way Level-8 in Zelda 1 can be entered and beaten pretty much at any time you feel ready. Souls is much less open and exploration-focused than Zelda, but the ability to mix it up makes the game a lot more replayable at least to me.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 15:27:48 2019 No.5709726 >>5709394 I actually just did this to before posting the graph to be sure my memory of it wasn't fucked. The Icerod's utility is actually somewhat disappointing in my opinion. I always get it early but then hardly ever use it.

Anonymous Wed Jul 3 16:21:37 2019 No.5709859

>>5709265
>This has nothing to do with it.

No it has everything to do with it. The game was made first before the manual was written, let alone the US manual which came a full year later. You can't say it was "meant to be used with the manual" when said manual didn't exist. Which is why I said maybe a case could be made for the Japanese manual which was written at about the same time, but going by Nintendo's history with treating American players as babies I'm guessing the Japanese one was quite a bit less explicit, which is to say the manual was not needed in Japan, but in the US it was, and if so, that is not an excuse to justify cryptic things in the game since they were put into the game knowing full well a player had to figure them out himself, not just look it up in the book.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 16:25:00 2019 No.5709873 >>5709859 >You can't say it was "meant to be used with the manual" when said manual didn't exist Good thing I'm not saying that.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 16:25:21 2019 No.5709874 >>5709675 It would be nice to count the average of options every game offers you for every "door".

Anonymous Wed Jul 3 17:58:59 2019 No.5710083

I really disliked this game the first 20 times I tried it. Then, I actually sat down with a piece of paper and made my own map of all the screens as I encountered them. It clicked for me and made everything a lot more fun and doable. It is too cryptic in places, though, there's no denying that.

Anonymous Wed Jul 3 18:29:03 2019 No.5710162
File: 84 KB, 904x823, the-legend-of-zelda-nes-screenshots-08.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5705402
The Trick is to to know how the grid System in LoZ works, everybody bitching about fighting uses the grid System wrong.
Instead of standing inside of the normal grid squares (squares on the floor) you have to stand in between them, this makes them not machinegun attack you. Secondly enemies can be hit upwards through a Single Block, this can be a used for darknuts for instance.
Using this makes most fights fairly easy.

In my example Pic you could attack the bootom blue wizrobe from that Position while it is passing by without getting shot at or him moving direction

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 18:31:01 2019 No.5710168 >>5705802 >Life is good for one playthrough. After you learn where everything is you can live it in about 25 years and it loses all sense of mystery. Exploring and finding secrets is the whole point and that's lost by the next 25 years.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 18:36:59 2019 No.5710185 >>5709384 Maybe sonic threads suit you more anon if this is to taxing for your brain.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 19:08:23 2019 No.5710246 File: 34 KB, 590x550, 1471520629873.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5710168 > that's lost by the next 25 years It really is. Life sucks, I wouldn't want to replay it anyway.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 19:18:50 2019 No.5710269 File: 61 KB, 860x859, 1557614383612.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5710246 Maybe you have the Konami Code turned on and this is already round 4

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 4 07:02:57 2019 No.5711280 >>5709675 Can you do it for more rpgs like Ultima for example? I want to recopilate them.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 4 08:49:27 2019 No.5711419 >>5710185 No bully pls

Anonymous Thu Jul 4 08:58:12 2019 No.5711432
File: 18 KB, 599x335, zelda-panties.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5695909
But no matter where I go there's more of game there and it doesn't stop being a thing and supposedly there's even more game beyond the first dozen screens. All I want is for game to end quicker but it just doesn't end and I don't know how to make it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 4 11:23:55 2019 No.5711586 >>5711432 t. Eiji Aonuma

Anonymous Thu Jul 4 12:19:37 2019 No.5711708

>>5711586
>die to octorok
>get so mad he works his way up the corporate ladder out of spite to lead the series
>warps the series into a distorted version of what it's meant to be just to make sure octoroks never have a place in Zelda ever again

I guess in some weird way he finally beat that octorok

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 5 03:43:19 2019 No.5713410 >>5711708 That explains everything.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 5 09:11:09 2019 No.5713687 >>5711280 I probably won't be able to do Ultima as I haven't played that series. They take a few hours to make even for games I know extremely well.

Anonymous Fri Jul 5 12:35:03 2019 No.5713928

For all the rumors of this game being obtuse, OoT is way more player unfriendly. Presenting a fish to JabuJabu is way more cryptic than using food on the Goryia. At least in that case you only have like 2 items you could possibly use making it fairly condensed what your options are.

In OoT's case there is 1) no real indication you should feed the whale to enter it, 2) the zora shop sells a fish but it is more expensive than your wallet can hold, 3) meaning you have to go out and grind skulltulas if you haven't got to 10 yet to unlock the bigger wallet (and even then I don't know if at that stage you can even get 10 yet anyway), and that's 4) assuming you even know 10 will get you the wallet.

Sure it's easy in retrospect that you can just go catch one yourself, but see 1), it's not immediately obvious you have to feed it to begin with. At least feeding the Goryia is about the only possible thing you can do with it since you can't attack it and all your other items are attack based.

Anonymous Fri Jul 5 13:17:39 2019 No.5713983

>>5703734
>the way each screen is presented as its own little diorama that needs to be "solved" on its own terms gives it a sense of moment-to-moment purpose and intention without taking the player by the hand
Nigger, 90% of the screens are featureless voids with random smatterings of enemies and fauna.

Anonymous Fri Jul 5 13:20:26 2019 No.5713992

>>5713928
>Presenting a fish to JabuJabu is way more cryptic than using food on the Goriya
Stopped reading there. One of the Zoras tells you to do this. Nothing in the first Zelda hints at this at all, and the food is in a hidden underground shop that players might never even discover. I figured out the fish thing when I was 8 because I talked to every NPC in that area.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 5 14:12:22 2019 No.5714080 >>5713992 >hidden underground shop Wut It's sold in like four or five different shops and not all of the are underground.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 5 15:02:21 2019 No.5714240 File: 46 KB, 644x692, db2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5713983 >featureless voids just like your posts

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 5 15:15:34 2019 No.5714270 >>5714240 >wojak >>>/v/

Anonymous Fri Jul 5 15:20:30 2019 No.5714285

>>5713992
>One of the Zoras tells you to do this

Pretty sure that is false since I just played this yesterday and made a point to talk to every Zora looking for the one hint people claim to exist. One tells you fish are there in the water and you can catch one, someone else tells you Ruto's job was serving meals to JabuJabu. No one tells you to give it a fish. I admit the clues are there but piecing them together isn't readily obvious until after you've already solved it, then yes it makes sense, but to a first time player it is not.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 5 15:24:03 2019 No.5714296 >>5714285 I haven't played OoT in a good decade, but I'm pretty sure it's spelled out. I and all of my retarded normalfag friends figured it out when we were 12, so it can't be that bad. It's not the Water Temple.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 5 15:27:52 2019 No.5714312 >>5714270 You deserved that wojack. Try taking your shit-tier lazy criticism to /v/ and see what happens.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 5 15:29:38 2019 No.5714320 >>5714296 Checked a game script >[003] : Have you seen Lord Jabu-Jabu? >----------------------------------------------- >-(Yes) >According to the "Legend of Zora," the act of offering a fish to Lord Jabu-Jabu will make you happy.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 5 15:29:55 2019 No.5714323 >>5714312 Nigger, /v/ is now officially a fucking reddit/twitter/retardera outpost. That you think it is somehow of a higher quality than this board shows your true colors.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 5 15:30:58 2019 No.5714327 >>5714320 Yeah, dude's a retard.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 5 15:55:22 2019 No.5714383 >>5714320 >make you happy Extremely vague, it does not mean you'll get to go inside him. Furthermore, what if you hadn't seen him yet and say no? You're supposed to lie? Hiding cryptic clues behind gated responses is bad design.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 5 16:06:23 2019 No.5714415 >>5714383 >the game tries to not-so-subtly tell you specifically what to do >"What? Make him happy? Why would I do that?" *throws controller This is you.

Anonymous Fri Jul 5 16:14:36 2019 No.5714434

>>5714296
Most people figured out the bait, too.
The thing about Jabu Jabu is that the first half of Ocarina is very linear and if you DO happen to get stuck at any point, all progress stops until you figure out the mechanic.

The other thing is that Ocarina is full of novel mechanics and doing tasks/quests for NPCs, which should be evident by the time you get to Jabu Jabu's mouth. Meanwhile, the Grumble Gorya is the first path-blocking NPC in the entire game of Z1, and the only other one in the first quest is the guy at Death Mountain requiring the triforce.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 5 16:15:37 2019 No.5714439 >>5714323 It's not higher quality than this board, it's higher quality than your posts specifically.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 5 16:24:55 2019 No.5714461 >>5714434 >novel mechanics >putting shit in bottles Nigger, literally what are you going on about? Did you play ALttP?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 5 16:36:03 2019 No.5714486 >>5714383 It's less vague than GRUMBLE GRUMBLE.

Anonymous Fri Jul 5 19:22:25 2019 No.5714941

>>5714383
>Furthermore, what if you hadn't seen him yet and say no?
Pretty sure that Zora mentions offering a fish to Jabu Jabu when you say no, too. You clearly just missed that NPC or didn't pay any attention when you talked to him. Your own fault, not the game's.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 5 19:29:00 2019 No.5714959 >>5698630 Haha the first time I played I named my character Zelda, lost hard and didn't play for awhile.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 5 19:32:49 2019 No.5714971 >>5714461 Link's Awakening is the best Zelda.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 5 19:48:21 2019 No.5715014 >>5714971 What does that have to do with you not understanding Zelda bottles?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 5 19:55:09 2019 No.5715038 >>5714941 >Pretty sure that Zora mentions offering a fish to Jabu Jabu when you say no, too Well he doesn't because last night I said no to him and went on my way. He just says everyone should visit JabuJabu at least once or something.

Anonymous Fri Jul 5 20:59:35 2019 No.5715157

>>5714941
I noticed that people want clues flat out replaced by the game telling you what to do. It's fucking sad. You'll see things in these threads that are like
>"There are secrets where fairies don't live." - bad hint, obtuse
>"There is a secret at the pond with no fairy." - Better hint but still bad
>"Blow the whistle at the pond with no fairy." - perfect hint

Guys like this want King Zora to say "Feed a fish to Jabu Jabu to go inside him and save my daughter".

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 5 21:02:36 2019 No.5715164 >>5715157 >>"There are secrets where fairies don't live." - bad hint, obtuse >>"There is a secret at the pond with no fairy." - Better hint This is objectively true and the translation from the second to the first is simply bad localization.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 5 21:04:13 2019 No.5715169 >>5715038 >He just says everyone should visit JabuJabu at least once or something. Did you think about visiting Jabu Jabu and then going back to him and telling him you went there? Or just lying to see what he'd say?

Anonymous Fri Jul 5 21:04:59 2019 No.5715174

>>5714461
god you are a dumbass
By novel mechanic I simply mean something specific for that situation if you had more than two brain cells you would have picked that up from context. ALTTP has nothing to do with it.

Lighting Deku sticks to burn webs is a new mechanic. Playing an Ocarina tune near an NPC to get it to respond is a new mechanic. Using blue fire to melt red ice is a new mechanic. Dropping a fish on the ground to get a previously inanimate object to come to life is a new mechanic. In the context of Z1, giving the bait to the Goryia bait is a new mechanic. Nothing like it had happened before. The difference I am pointing out, the difference you are too buttfucking retarded to see, is that Ocarina of Time constantly introduces new mechanics while Zelda 1 does not. In fact, sometimes part of the game in Ocarina is to look at the environment and try to guess which part the developers programmed to behave realistically. Zelda 1 does not have that dynamic at all.

So on the one hand, Ocarina in theory conditions you to expect things like this, and by the time you reach Jabu Jabu, baiting him with a fish isn't some kind of crazy cryptic thing. Meanwhile, in Zelda 1, the hungry Goriya is the first time in the game that a dungeon NPC has blocked your path. It's 2/3rds of the way through a dungeon that is is 2/3ds of the way through the game. But on the other hand, Zelda 1 is less linear (as you can see from the diagrams I posted earlier). If for some reason you get stumped by Jabu Jabu, you're stuck before you've even had a chance to do anything fun, and have nothing to do but run in 3D around a bunch of empty boring areas that you've already visited. If you get stuck on the Grumble Goriya in Z1, you can just shelve it, move on to Level-8, and come back to the puzzle after sleeping on it and maybe the answer will be obvious.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 5 21:05:16 2019 No.5715176 >>5715164 Read the Legends of Localizations page. The fairy secret thing is the exact same shit in Japanese.

Anonymous Fri Jul 5 21:06:46 2019 No.5715181

>>5715174
>The difference I am pointing out, the difference you are too buttfucking retarded to see, is that Ocarina of Time constantly introduces new mechanics while Zelda 1 does not
Then maybe you should actually point them out instead of looking like a fucking retard who thinks putting shit into bottles is a new thing.

Anonymous Fri Jul 5 21:14:18 2019 No.5715203

>>5715181
>context is way too hard for me
It's not up to me to prevent you from adding unintended semantics to words. Perhaps it might have been better for me to spell it out with more verbiage and avoid the phrase "novel mechanic" specifically because I should have known some retard like you would take it as generic praise for Ocarina's unique amazingness or whatever. My mistake there doesn't make you any less of a retard.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 5 21:18:00 2019 No.5715212 >>5715203 >still can't define what you think a 'novel mechanic' is Jew.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 5 22:40:23 2019 No.5715376 >>5715212 What is wrong with you?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 5 22:58:28 2019 No.5715395 >>5715376 Fuck off, jew.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 6 08:20:56 2019 No.5716083 File: 141 KB, 645x773, 1521515121728.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5715395 the term is explained clearly, your brain simply does not function

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 6 10:46:19 2019 No.5716328 >>5715176 You're gonna have to link me to it or something because I looked up that website and all I see is every page telling me to buy some dumb book with no actual translation comparisons visible anywhere on the site.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 6 11:26:10 2019 No.5716402 >>5716328 The irony that this is your response to a topic about a clue in a video game being up to the player to solve vs spoonfeeding the player is beautiful.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 6 14:11:55 2019 No.5716781 >>5716402 I guess, but have you seen the website? It's just one giant ad for a book with zero information other than "BUY MY BOOK."

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 6 14:22:54 2019 No.5716812 What's your favorite level?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 6 15:21:44 2019 No.5716961 >>5716812 3, because I like that certain shade of green.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 6 15:34:00 2019 No.5716998 >>5716328 https://legendsoflocalization.com/the-legend-of-zelda/first-quest/

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 6 15:35:02 2019 No.5717002 >>5716328 https://legendsoflocalization.com/the-legend-of-zelda/first-quest/#fairy-man

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 6 16:38:20 2019 No.5717145 the bottom line is that a hint is a just a hint. hints are only for the people who aren't able to just figure it out through reasoning and experimentation. It could be even more garbled and it would still be idiotic to complain about it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 6 18:08:19 2019 No.5717327 >>5713687 If you make more for retro games, I'll include them https://vretc.neocities.org/#graphs

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 7 19:47:04 2019 No.5720046 >>5695909 What game is this? I only came here because /lgbt/ says this is a good place for old fashioned memes and classic video game jokes.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 7 20:01:36 2019 No.5720076 1st time I played it I completely missed the blue ring and had no clue how to get the sword upgrade until like 7th dungeon. I absolutely hated it, the game is extremely cruel without does 2 upgrades.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 7 20:01:40 2019 No.5720078 >>5716781 http://youtu.be/QZg8E72xXFA

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 7 20:04:02 2019 No.5720081 >>5709726 >Icerod I found out by accident the icerod will kill the worms in the 2nd palace in one hit

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 7 20:27:16 2019 No.5720142 >>5695923 Is there a guide for this

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 7 20:34:38 2019 No.5720162 >>5695923 Aren't there three heart containers you could get, two with bombs one with the candle?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 7 21:36:13 2019 No.5720302 >>5710168 >>5710246 Wtf git gud scrubs I still need to improve: My lawn game My home confyness my bartending My /fit I keep thinking sex cant get better but it does.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 7 21:36:32 2019 No.5720303 >>5720081 yeah it's cool for that, the the problem is actually hitting those things with the icerod's slow animation.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 7 21:37:33 2019 No.5720304 >>5720142 it's linked in the thread already >>5709259

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 7 22:03:28 2019 No.5720342 >>5720303 Learn to aim

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 7 22:06:00 2019 No.5720345 I like the early zelda games because they feel more like European legend like Beowulf or King Arthur. Link's awakening and onward, the games took on an increasingly japanese style.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 8 05:17:42 2019 No.5720968 >>5720046 If you don't recognize that logo, you're in the wrong place.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 8 08:13:06 2019 No.5721161 >>5720968 Different anon, but now that I think about it, how did I even recognize the logo?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 8 11:38:58 2019 No.5721397 File: 25 KB, 802x630, Zelda Classic on Linux.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] opinions on Zelda Classic?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 8 12:37:22 2019 No.5721468 >>5721397 I have none. What is it?

Anonymous Mon Jul 8 12:46:09 2019 No.5721482

>>5721397
I haven't played it in awhile. The last time I tried, I recall not liking the control scheme and being annoyed there was no way to remap buttons. I also missed emulator features like save states.
>>5721468
Basically Open Source Zelda Clone that lets you build custom quests.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 8 13:50:07 2019 No.5721605 >>5704729 >what software do you use I'm no professional, but it appears to MSPaint

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 8 13:55:31 2019 No.5721612 >>5706427 To be fair, you can completely break Ocarina Of Time if you know how to Navi dive and use ocarina items.

Anonymous Mon Jul 8 14:04:24 2019 No.5721627

>>5704729
>>5721605
It's not MSPaint, it's GraphViz: https://graphviz.org/
It comes with a collection of different graph generation tools, the one I used is called dot, which is the one for directed graphs.

$ /usr/bin/dot -V
dot - graphviz version 2.40.1 (20161225.0304)

The input files look like the pastebins here: >>5707332
Command looks something like this:
dot -Tpng -o alttp.png alttp.dot

There are also bindings for lots of other languages like perl, python and java.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 9 00:56:47 2019 No.5722954 >>5721627 These are really great, good work. Have you tried applying graph theory algorithms to these things?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 9 09:16:23 2019 No.5723519 I always forget how trash the wooden sword is on every new game start.

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