>8 CPUs WHAT WERE THEY THINKING? And even the most competent Sega developers at the end of its life were only able to coax out the graphical equivalent of sub-par PSX games.

File: 117 KB, 1280x853, SEGA-Saturn-Skeleton-cool-Loose-9__80276.1509375743.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Mon Jun 24 17:33:51 2019 No.5687826 [Reply] [Original]

>8 CPUs
WHAT WERE THEY THINKING? And even the most competent Sega developers at the end of its life were only able to coax out the graphical equivalent of sub-par PSX games.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 24 17:37:10 2019 No.5687834 >dank eceleb meme >blanket incorrect generalization >psx Zoom zoom zoom.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 24 17:38:35 2019 No.5687838 It was that generation's version of the PS3. Except the PS3 kept getting some continuous support in ALL regions.

Anonymous Mon Jun 24 17:40:04 2019 No.5687846
File: 2.53 MB, 1784x6512, psx.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5687834
You are trying way too hard to fit in. Nobody anywhere denies the Saturn's incompetence at 3D besides extreme fanboys. Any programmer who's worked on the system agrees it is far inferior to the PSX on a hardware level.

Also

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 24 17:46:15 2019 No.5687856 >>5687846 What if I'm allowed to call it whatever the fuck I want?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 24 17:59:08 2019 No.5687892 >>5687846 >Nobody anywhere denies the Saturn's incompetence at 3D besides extreme fanboys See burning Rangers. Coming from a jittery mess fanboy. K, bud.

Anonymous Mon Jun 24 18:03:57 2019 No.5687901

>>5687892
Runs at 20 FPS (with dips) and severe clipping. I’m not sure what you think you’re proving with that, just compare it to Metal Gear Solid or Soup Reaver on PSX. Also burning rangers’ gameplay has aged tremendously with a horrible camera, floaty controls, and only four levels.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 24 18:05:42 2019 No.5687905 >>5687901 >Also burning rangers’ gameplay has aged Keep going bud.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 24 18:08:02 2019 No.5687915 >>5687905 Nice argument. Pro-tip: you’re trying too hard to look like a grown up.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 24 18:08:32 2019 No.5687916 >>5687826 >8 cpus Sega were used to weird setups like that in their arcade hardware. They probably thought it was clever. But it was not so great for third parties.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 24 18:09:00 2019 No.5687918 >>5687915 Including yourself, bitch.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 24 18:10:24 2019 No.5687924 >>5687915 Hating tank controls is the ultimate larp filter.

Anonymous Mon Jun 24 18:13:51 2019 No.5687932

>>5687916
Not even they could get a handle on it. Even games like the OG virtual fighter suffered from massive polygon clipping in a tiny ass arena and flat shaded polygons. Hell, late era games like BR, PDS, and Shenmue weren't on par with the graphics of the competition. Well maybe Shenmue was but since it wasn’t actually released I guess we’ll never know.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 24 18:14:53 2019 No.5687939 >>5687924 Burning Rangers doesn’t have tank controls. Are you sure YOU’VE played it?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 24 18:15:38 2019 No.5687946 >>5687939 Are you retarded?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 24 18:19:09 2019 No.5687961 >>5687946 ???

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 24 18:20:05 2019 No.5687964 >>5687961 You can't move without the triggers unless it's one of the sections where the camera is locked.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 24 18:26:51 2019 No.5687989 >>5687964 I don't think you know what tank controls are. Tomb Raider is a game with tank controls, not Burning Rangers.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 24 18:34:15 2019 No.5688008 >>5687989 The camera is controlled by the triggers.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 24 18:35:23 2019 No.5688010 File: 2.94 MB, 584x476, tomb.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5688008 That's not what tank controls are dummy, this is. And you call me zoomer.

Anonymous Mon Jun 24 18:38:32 2019 No.5688019

>>5688010
In burning rangers you're running down hallways 90% of the time with right angles. It's way faster to use "tank controls" around the corner. And the camera is always good when you play it that way. Maybe that's why you think the camera is bad because you're just using the dpad?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 24 18:40:37 2019 No.5688028 >>5688019 I have an analog pad, that's not the issue. The majority of the game ISN'T hallways, it's rooms with at least some verticality which are extremely cumbersome to navigate with the horrendously floaty controls and bad camera.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 24 18:43:48 2019 No.5688038 >>5688028 >The majority of the game ISN'T hallways I think you played a different game anon. >horrendously floaty controls You really played a different game or didn't know how to do the dash moves right.

Anonymous Mon Jun 24 18:44:58 2019 No.5688041
File: 474 KB, 1600x1200, Daytona USA Championship Circuit Edition (U)-190625-101219.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5687826
I've played Daytona USA on the PC and in the arcade. Finally getting around to it on Mednafen and holy shit is it bad. Terrible framerate, blurry as hell graphics and did they make the game easier? I remember the arcade version being brutal as fuck. (I also have it on PS3).
Now I can see why. What the hell were they thinking with the Saturn?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 24 18:48:16 2019 No.5688047 File: 2.87 MB, 1000x750, daytona saturn.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5688041 That's not even the original version, pic related is. It looks even worse but surprisingly is one of the best playing releases of the game to this day.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 24 18:59:23 2019 No.5688073 >>5688047 I have the HD remaster on PS3 and it plays and looks much much better

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 24 19:10:04 2019 No.5688102 File: 3.00 MB, 1000x567, daytona.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5688073 They play equally unless your enjoyment is tethered to the framerate. The true top tier will always be the arcade version.

Anonymous Mon Jun 24 19:20:00 2019 No.5688132
File: 901 KB, 1280x2162, 1483348204601.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I am a huge Resident Evil fanboy. How worth it is it to pick up a Sega Saturn just for that reason alone. While I think the system is sleek as fuck, none of the other games really interest me

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 24 19:22:39 2019 No.5688134 >>5687826 >9k underage shitposters WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 24 19:23:13 2019 No.5688135 >>5688132 You can play resident evil on the PSX.

Anonymous Mon Jun 24 19:30:56 2019 No.5688146
File: 524 KB, 950x1191, 1561267037308.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5688135

Yes, I know. I just like having all the different versions of the game PS had 3 different game versions (Original, Directors Cut and Greatest Hits). The Saturn version is a unique version with different content. Shame it's 100 dollar CIB. Fuck that

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 24 19:31:44 2019 No.5688149 >>5688146 It's 99% the same game, just play it on mednafen.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 24 19:32:39 2019 No.5688153 File: 98 KB, 802x1095, 1513069459569.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Related to the thread for info.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 24 19:33:45 2019 No.5688157 File: 681 KB, 1229x1650, 1513059382953.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5688153 and

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 24 19:36:48 2019 No.5688167 >>5688149 Alright, thanks for the input. I already went down the rabbit whole collecting Resident Evil and didn't know if I should go even more.

Anonymous Mon Jun 24 20:44:27 2019 No.5688297

>>5687846
>Any programmer who's worked on the system agrees
If you actually read interviews from contemporary developers the vast majority said that both systems had their strengths and weaknesses. Lobotomy went on record saying there was no way they could get their Saturn games working on the PSX.

Anonymous Tue Jun 25 04:37:52 2019 No.5689027

>>5688297
>Lobotomy went on record saying there was no way they could get their Saturn games working on the PSX.
I think you’ve got that backwards. Ezra said that his Quake Saturn code would run at 60 FPS on PS1 if he optimised it to the same degree for that platform.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 25 04:51:53 2019 No.5689040 >>5687826 Late releases for Saturn include stuff like Dungeons and Dragons Collection, which would never run on Playstation without severe and major cut backs. Playstation simply doesn't have enough RAM.

Anonymous Tue Jun 25 05:39:08 2019 No.5689098

>>5687826
No you dumb zoomer, not every processor is a CPU. Calling the VDPs CPUs is like calling the GPU in your PC a CPU. The Saturn had two CPUs, which was a bit weird and hard to program for compared to the usual one CPU, but nothing too special. Like most consoles of the era, it also had a number of special-purpose processors to control things like the CD drive and sound hardware, but those aren't CPUs, in the same way that not all the processors in the PC you're shitposting from are CPUs.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 25 06:37:14 2019 No.5689179 >>5687846 everyone just called it a playstation. dont know where psx came from. people were blown away when ps2 was named ps2 instead of some totally new name so they never expected a number system. why would you randomly add an x?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 25 07:19:14 2019 No.5689263 >>5689098 >special-purpose processors to control things like the CD drive and sound hardware, but those aren't CPUs, The sound processor was a Motorola 68000 and the CD drive processor a Hitachi SH-1. Those are absolutely general purpose processors.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 25 07:29:09 2019 No.5689273 File: 224 KB, 680x498, 13b.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5689098 absolutely btfo >>5689263

Anonymous Tue Jun 25 07:34:34 2019 No.5689278

>>5689263
CPU is a role. The Dreamcast had an ARM7TDMI, but it wasn't the CPU, even though it was the CPU in the GBA. The RSP in the N64 had an very similar architecture to the CPU, but only one of them was the CPU. Your hard drive probably has an ARM processor in it, but it's not your computer's CPU. What developers found difficult in programming the Saturn was fully utilizing the two (2) CPUs. You didn't have to write code for the 68000 because you could use SEGA's sound library. The presence of the 68000 didn't make developing games harder just because it was programmable. The only reason you'd touch it is if you wanted to tweak the sound, because it was the sound processor.

Anonymous Tue Jun 25 07:43:59 2019 No.5689295

>>5689278
>CPU is a role.
Semantically sort of yes, but CPU is not synonymous with general purpose processor, although for obvious reasons pretty much all CPUs are general purpose processors.

>The Dreamcast had an ARM7TDMI
But it is a general purpose processor. It may not be the CPU of the Dreamcast console, but it’s arguably the CPU of the audio subsystem.

>The RSP in the N64 had an very similar architecture to the CPU
Only in a partial way. The RSP has a scalar unit and a vector unit. Only the scalar unit has a similar architecture to the CPU but its instruction set was castrated to the point that it’s not really a general purpose processor anymore.

>You didn't have to write code for the 68000 because you could use SEGA's sound library
So because you didn’t have to write ARM assembly for the PS1 CPU cause you could use Sony’s generous library, the console didn’t have a CPU?

Nothing stopped you writing 68000 assembly on Saturn btw.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 25 07:45:07 2019 No.5689297 >>5689295 *meant MIPS assembly

Anonymous Tue Jun 25 07:57:31 2019 No.5689315

>>5689295
It's just pointless to count the number of general purpose processors. General purpose processors often fill roles that application-specific processors could fill, but that doesn't make the design more complicated. Even counting general purpose processors, OP's count of eight is wrong, because you have to include the VDPs to get to that. The Saturn was hard to program for, but it wasn't hard because it had a CD-ROM controller.

>So because you didn’t have to write MIPS assembly for the PS1 CPU cause you could use Sony’s generous library, the console didn’t have a CPU?
Well no, you don't have to write MIPS assembly for the PS1 CPU to make games for the PS1, but you do have to write code for the PS1 CPU. You don't have to write anything for the 68000 to make games for the Saturn. It's completely optional, like reprogramming the RSP in the N64 or the ARM7 in the DS.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 25 08:17:02 2019 No.5689336 >>5689315 >You don't have to write anything for the 68000 to make games for the Saturn. It's completely optional, like reprogramming the RSP in the N64 or the ARM7 in the DS. You still have to write C code for all of these things.

Anonymous Tue Jun 25 08:21:32 2019 No.5689340
File: 131 KB, 291x288, moving truck.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>muh 2D powerhouse
Show me THREE (3) games that CLEARLY distinguish themselves from anything that could be done on another 5th gen console (mainly the PS1), or even older stuff like the the Neo Geo. I mean by the 5th gen you're reaching a point where saying "we can do nice 2D" is almost redundant and expected.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 25 08:25:35 2019 No.5689345 >>5689336 But you don't. Sega and Nintendo write it for you. Your game only has to run on the primary CPU(s). The other processors can run generic vendor-provided code that works for all games.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 25 08:32:26 2019 No.5689353 >>5689345 >Sega and Nintendo write it for you All they did was write C libraries for you

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 25 08:33:14 2019 No.5689354 >>5687834 Retard. PSX was also the name of the AOL channel for the PlayStation back when AOL was the go to way to connect to the internet. God damn you're an idiot.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 25 08:33:39 2019 No.5689356 >>5689353 Yes, they did. That's all I'm saying. (Not sure why you're hung up on which programming language they used.)

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 25 08:41:50 2019 No.5689364 >>5689356 Because Sony also wrote C libraries for the MIPS CPU. Where’s the line between the two?

Anonymous Tue Jun 25 08:51:20 2019 No.5689371

>>5689354
He wasn't referencing an aol channel he was referencing the system. It was the name of a magazine too, doesn't mean anybody called the system that. It's pretty clear you weren't around then if you're citing the name of an aol channel as proof of anything.

Anonymous Tue Jun 25 08:53:59 2019 No.5689372

>>5689364
The game developer also had to write code for the MIPS CPU in the PlayStation, otherwise they wouldn't have a game, because that's where the game ran. The difference is that the average developer wrote zero lines of code for the RSP, the ARM7 in the DS, or the 68EC000 in the Saturn. The console vendors provided complete programs for those processors and replacing them with custom programs was optional.

Anonymous Tue Jun 25 09:00:47 2019 No.5689378

>>5689372
>The console vendors provided complete programs for those processors and replacing them with custom programs was optional.
No, all they did was write all the core functions you would probably ever need. For example, on the Motorola 68000, the functions for generating many DSP effects was already written for you. But developers could also write your own extra DSP effects.

I mean when you write things like this it just seems ridiculous
>the average developer wrote zero lines of code for the RSP
So that would mean that every single game has the exact same display lists and matrix operations.

Anonymous Tue Jun 25 09:18:43 2019 No.5689398

>>5689378
I was under the impression that most developers used Sega Sound Library/CyberSound unmodified. Is that wrong?

All I'm trying to say is that it's not really a CPU if the game itself doesn't run on it. The implication from the OP is that the Saturn was difficult to develop for because it had 8 CPUs. Obviously that's nonsense, because it only had four general purpose processors, but you could also argue only two of them were CPUs because the other two had specific purposes and didn't often run game-specific code. You can run a custom program on the 68EC000, but I'd argue that's similar to running a custom program on the N64's RSP, in that, it's absolutely not required, but some developers did it to optimize their audio or graphics (for the 68EC000 and the RSP, respectively.)

>So that would mean that every single game has the exact same display lists and matrix operations.
No, it doesn't mean that at all. The display lists were a data structure shared between the CPU and the RSP. They weren't executable code for the RSP. Most games used Nintendo's RSP program, which just read those display lists.

Anonymous Tue Jun 25 09:24:41 2019 No.5689407

>>5689027
Oh yeah? Show us that quote then lmao. Lobotomy started working on the PS1 in late 97 but never released a single game on it. Quake was attempted several times on the PS1 and eventually abandoned. Duke Nukem 3D on the PS1 is a massively inferior game to the Saturn version.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 25 09:27:28 2019 No.5689412 >>5689398 I think our argument is basically just semantics to be honest.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 25 09:29:34 2019 No.5689415 >>5689412 Yeah, I think you're right. OP is still wrong though.

Anonymous Tue Jun 25 09:35:01 2019 No.5689420

>>5689407
>Ezra: The most striking thing about the PlayStation port was how much faster the graphics hardware was than the Saturn. The initial scene after you just start the game is pretty complex. I think it ran 20 fps on the Saturn version. On the PlayStation it ran 30, but the actual rendering part could have been going 60 if the CPU calculations weren’t holding it up. I don’t know if it would have ever been possible to get it to really run 60, but at least there was the potential.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 25 09:58:50 2019 No.5689459 >>5689420 Kek so he didn't say 60 fps, he said it could have hit 60fps if the hardware was better. Also that would be a non-existent port he's talking about.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 25 10:01:39 2019 No.5689461 >>5689459 Reading comprehension. He said that it might have been able to hit 60 FPS if he optimized it well. Might.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 25 10:09:21 2019 No.5689469 >>5689461 >this game that might have been made might have hit this frame rate if it had a better cpu Yeah, reading comprehension indeed. Being a fanboy for a 25 year old console is just sad.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 25 10:11:32 2019 No.5689473 >>5689469 How hard is it to read this line? >I don’t know if it would have ever been possible to get it to really run 60, but at least there was the potential.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 25 10:14:49 2019 No.5689479 >>5689473 Yeah and I had the potential to win the lottery last week with a ticket I bought. I could be a millionaire now fucking 10/10 escorts. Didn't happen though. You're a fucking idiot.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 25 10:28:19 2019 No.5689494 File: 288 KB, 402x438, 1502832519621.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5689479 stop making yourself look stupid anon

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 25 18:03:30 2019 No.5690503 >>5688047 >those dithered transparencies.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 25 18:05:44 2019 No.5690505 They were thinking that multithreading is the future. Too bad they were in the present.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 25 18:19:22 2019 No.5690541 >>5690505 that was something that sticks out in the specs but wikipedia cites that it was the fact that both processors shared a bus and thus had to wait on each other for memory calls

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 25 18:27:35 2019 No.5690568 >>5687856 You can call it a banana but nobody will know what you're talking about

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 25 18:30:59 2019 No.5690574 It's sad seeing a bunch of people who never moved on talking about and arguing over shit from the 90s.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 25 18:38:08 2019 No.5690594 Not gonna lie, packing all of EIGHT separate CPU in a kiddie game box in the mid90's, 10+ years before consumer grade PCs could even DREAM of having a measly 8 CORES, is pretty gangsta Hats off to the japs

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 25 18:41:27 2019 No.5690604 >>5690594 Now go count how many CPUs there are in your graphics cards.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 25 18:44:26 2019 No.5690612 Central Processing Unit Can a processor be central and specialized at the same time?

Anonymous Tue Jun 25 18:46:05 2019 No.5690615

>>5690594
Japanese folks didn't consider these "kiddie game boxes". The Famicom was the family computer. All the while in burgerland, nintendo had to disguise the famicom into the hideous NES, even adding stupid fucking loading mechanisms, all just to make it look like a VCR, because American companies basically ruined the videogame industry and consumers wouldn't buy a "kiddie game box" anymore. As an American myself, it's obvious it's not Americans I hate; it's the general stupidity our population suffers from.

Anonymous Tue Jun 25 19:20:20 2019 No.5690692

>>5689371
It was absolutely called the PSX by a bunch of people. It was codenamed PSX, it was referred to as PSX in gaming mags, and it was even advertised as PSX for a while in the US before the system came out.

The real "zoomers" or wtfever you guys are calling them are the ones who don't know anything about this.

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