/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.5624151]

Misty's Starmie was the original Whitney's Miltank

[Anonymous No.5624169]

>>5624151
Did it have Ice Beam? If not, you're way off.

[Anonymous No.5624173]

>>5624169
>Stab 65 power attack from one of Gen 1's Uber tier pokemon
It was pretty powerful considering what it is.

[Anonymous No.5624178]

>>5624173
Eh. Starmie's special stat really isn't that impressive by gen 1 standards.

[Anonymous No.5624372]

It was an imposing Pokemon, but ultimately it doesn't compare. If anything, Brock's Onix is more of a memorable threat if players selected Charmander.

[Anonymous No.5624389]

>>5624372
>>5624372
Picking Charmander in Gen 1 is so dumb.

[Anonymous No.5624387]

>>5624173
I remember it being powerful, but even if you didn't catch a Pikachu, you are a complete retard if you didn't use your Oddish or Bellsprout for that battle.

[Anonymous No.5624393]

>>5624372
this...

[Anonymous No.5624414]

>>5624372
>>5624393
niggas what, it doesn't even have rock throw, you can ember it to death easy

[Anonymous No.5624434]

Enemy Pokémon in Gen 1 rarely had good movesets because they were barely able to cram the game as is in a 1mb cart. In order to compensate for bad movesets, they instead made the enemy Pokémon high leveled, so that their brute strength made up for ineffective movesets. I would like to make a hack of gen 1 that gives enemy trainers better moves and switches around some Pokémon, but I'm not sure if such a thing is feasible with this game without overwriting parts of the game.

[Anonymous No.5624440]

>>5624151
Was it? I always vine whipped that bitch in one hit.

[Anonymous No.5624447]

Reset your game and pick Bulbasaur.

[Anonymous No.5624453]

>>5624434
In Gen I most enemy Pokemon just had moves they'd learn by leveling up and the Gym Leader's TM. Yellow actually gave them more moves that they could learn through TMs.

[Anonymous No.5624456]

>>5624372

>first game was Yellow
>tried to beat Brock with only Pikachu and Pidgey

[Anonymous No.5624460]

>>5624387
You actually have to endure your rival AND the entire nugget bridge before you can get one, and then you have to grind it up to a servicable level (and you can no longer access Mt Moon for easy Geodudes). Pikachu is the safe bet, but Starmie so much as breathes on Chu it usually faints since it doesn't have much HP.

[Anonymous No.5624496]

>>5624460
Why would you not explore those places before taking on the Pokemon Gym?

[Anonymous No.5624497]

>>5624453
Exactly, which is why exeggutor famously only has 3 moves.
>>5624460
If you really wanted to, you could just use the pokecenter at Mt moon, go through nugget Bridge, catch an Abra and bellsprout, and then teleport back to mt moon. It will be tedious but you can level up bellsprout easier now, assuming zubat encounters are few and far between.

[Anonymous No.5624504]

>>5624496
The point is you can't catch an oddish/bellsprout until you've already beaten the trainers with the exp to grind it on

[Anonymous No.5624569]

>starmie is level 21
>get a pikachu to 20/21
>thunderbolt doesnt kill it, its gets a water pulse/bubblebeam off
>get it to 23
>thunderbolt still doesnt kill it

fuck you, gamefreak

[Anonymous No.5624601]

>>5624460
You're supposed to fight them before Misty, anyway. That's precisely why Game Freak put them there.

>>5624504
Wild Pokemon give exp, too, anon

[Anonymous No.5624639]

>>5624414
This, Onix isn't bad even with Charmander. If you've been leveling nothing but Charmander, Starmie can wreck you.

[Anonymous No.5624686]

>>5624639
The only thing you need to watch our for when using Charmander is bide besides that pretty easy battle regardless of the starter

[Anonymous No.5624734]

>>5624372
You can solo Brock with a lvl. 9 Charmander if you have a spare potion and know how to play the game right. Ironically this is not true for the Sandshrew using trainer you can fight before Brock.

That's right, Brock is so vastly overrated that he's the worst trainer in his own gym!

[Anonymous No.5624741]

>>5624734
>I'M BROCK I USE ROCK TYPES MY GYM IS ROCK TYPE!
>only other trainer is stronger than him and uses Ground type

Brock's a cuck

[Anonymous No.5624749]

I just replayed this game and I beat this on the first try without even using stab moves, you damn shitter.

[Anonymous No.5624754]

>>5624151
>>>/vp/

[Anonymous No.5624769]

>>5624686
And that becomes super easy if you just growl when he uses bide.

[Anonymous No.5624774]

>>5624639
I played this before I really knew how to read. I thought fire moves were good against rock types because it did a lot more damage than tackle.

[Anonymous No.5624776]

>>5624741
That's more due to the fact that rock types were fucking awful in gen 1, and all but one have a double weakness to grass. Compound that with awful special (defense) and they're pretty worthless, apparently Golem and Rhydon only saw comp use for the sole purpose of countering Zapdos.

[Anonymous No.5624839]

>>5624776
Rhydon hits like a fucking truck though, unlike the others. I would say it’s the most consistently underestimated mon in any generation. It can cripple or sweep entire teams that aren’t taking it seriously; it can actually survive SE hits thanks to high HP and its Substitutes can take two hits sometimes which is an absolute nightmare. The amazing thing is that its utility hasn’t changed much over the years because it’s always had two STABed attacks plus Sub.

[Anonymous No.5624845]

>>5624754
>Stop talking about retro games in /vr/

[Anonymous No.5625071]

>>5624639
Thank you for this webm. I distinctly remember when I was 9 and beat Brock for the first time with just my level 15 Charmander who grew to level 16 after the fight, and because of that, I was convinced that beating Brock was why it evolved. My friends who chose Bulbasaur and Squirtle didn't believe I beat him with just Charmander.

[Anonymous No.5625081]

>>5624776
Countering Zapdos is nice, but they're great besides that too. You have to remember that Normal types were as broken as Psychic in gen 1. Pretty much every competitive gen 1 team has Snorlax and Tauros, and Hyper Beam/Explosion were common attacks. Rock types take half damage from Normal, so you can switch in Golem/Rhydon on a predicted Hyper Beam or Explosion and take heavily reduced damage to make them waste their attack. They're both strong physically too, and Golem having Explosion is really nice.

Onix is awful though, sadly. Less attack than a Rattata, and its huge defense is countered by having terrible HP and Special.

[Anonymous No.5625382]

No one even brought up the terrible AI in gen1. Fucking 70% of the time Misty and Patrick just do the completely worse move you could do.

[Anonymous No.5625481]

>>5624447
This, bulbs is my man.

[Anonymous No.5625497]

>>5624414
you have to remember people played this as children though. it certainly wasn't impossible but it would be a slog for a kid who is new to the series

[Anonymous No.5625654]

>>5624447
>>5625481
looks like I found the level headed amongst the rabble

[Anonymous No.5625684]

>>5624178
100 special is very solid considering Starmie's speed, typing, and coverage. And it's by far the most powerful special user (or pokemon in general) up to that point. It's essentially a fully evolved pokemon competing with the babymons which you have.

[Anonymous No.5625735]

>>5624776
I should point out that omastar, kabutops and aerodactyl were bad in gen 1 for reasons other than just being rock types.

[Anonymous No.5625754]

>>5625382
>Patrick

[Anonymous No.5625760]

>>5624734
Kids don't know that you can whittle him down well enough with Ember at first glance. There's also the Geodude to consider too, and a lot of Pokemon up to that port do pitiful damage against Brock's Pokemon. Butterfree is an exception with Confusion, but it's pretty fragile in turn.

[Anonymous No.5625784]

>>5625760
Man, fuck Butterfree. For some reason when I was a kid I thought it was essential to grind a caterpie to level 10 for that Confusion, it took me years to realize there was no reason not to just use Ember

[Anonymous No.5625961]

>>5625754

[Anonymous No.5626238]

>>5624372
What? Brock with his retarded bide spam?

[Anonymous No.5626425]

>>5625382
The AI in this game actually cheats. Say you had a jigglypuff out and the enemy Pokémon somehow knows lick and submission. If you switch out to gastly, anticipating submission which in turn will do no damage, the enemy will choose lick. If you switch from gastly to jigglypuff anticipating lick, it will use submission. When you switch out, the AI will choose the best attack for the Pokémon you just switched in. However the AI also chooses attacks purely by typing, which can result in soft locks where dewgong spams rest.

[Anonymous No.5626701]

>>5626425
You said this last time and someone posted a gif of you being wrong

[Anonymous No.5626713]

>>5626425
Boss fights can also use healing items when they're not supposed to.
>you go first
>knock them down to 1 hp
>they use a full restore

[Anonymous No.5626812]

>>5626425
>>5625382
The basic trainer AI just uses a random move every turn disregarding type advantages. Some trainers have a slightly modified AI that allows them to use stat modifying moves in their second turn. The Gym leader AI (also used by your rival and a few trainers) always tries to use an attack that has a type advantage over your pokemon or if no move has an advantage it uses an alternate move that avoids a type disadvantage. This would normally be a pretty good idea for AI but if the player is aware of this they can exploit it by putting out pokemon that are strong to all of a gym leader's moves and force the opponent to use a status modifying move over and over or something.

[Anonymous No.5627190]

>>5624456
get you a mankey in the bushes on the way to victory road

[Anonymous No.5627194]

>>5624456
AIM FOR THE HORN

[Anonymous No.5627217]

>>5624151
If you know what you're doing then it won't be a problem

[Anonymous No.5627239]

>>5624173
It wasn't even Uber, and no, it has none of the reason that lead Miltank to be so annoying in gen 2(paraflinch, good bulk plus recover, only geodude and machop couls resist there by the roster you were given at that point in the game, etc). Your comparision is really poor.

[Anonymous No.5627247]

>>5626812
To this very day they're still using shitty AI for the normal game trainers but have demonstrated they can make somewhat decent AI for the battle frontiers/subway/maison etc. Like they have their own plans and shit. They should really just use the best AI they can that doesn't cheat or look at the player's move, because honestly how hard can it be in the main game when most trainers have only one or two shit mons anyway. At least make them be smart. And maybe have them use items.

[Anonymous No.5627265]

>>5626812
See TPP - vs Lance (no the same exact case but alnost there)

[Anonymous No.5627267]

>>5624456
Viridian Forest exists for a reason

>Butterfree
>Confusion destroys Brock
>Beedrill
>Twinneedle destroys Starmie and is 4x super effective vs everything on Erika's team

[Anonymous No.5627274]

>>5627239
>It wasn't even Uber
You're right and it's gen 1, the only ubers (if you like smogon tiers) are Mew and Mewtwo. There aren't even enough pokemon for uber to be a populated tier. If he meant "one of the very best pokemon" by uber then yes Starmie definitely fits that category but we're talking specifically about misty's and whitney's pokemon. It's not like misty's Starmie was loaded with surf/psychic/thunderbolt/icebeam to obliterate everything that comes at it.

[Anonymous No.5627276]

>>5627267
That's why I've always found Brock to be terrible game design. Your best option against him other than power leveling your Charmander is Butterfree, but you'd never know Butterfree hard countered him unless you already happened to have one. Hell, I don't think they even explained what the special stat did anywhere in the game or in the instructions.

[Anonymous No.5627279]

>>5627274
>It was uber if by uber you mean OU
Okey

[Anonymous No.5627280]

>>5627267
>beedrill
truly one of the shittest evolved mons in existence. shame cause it looks kinda cool in Red/Blue like an armoured power ranger battle-wasp.

[Anonymous No.5627298]

>>5627279
No I mean all Uber means in gen 1 is "no Mewtwo" so using uber as a descriptive term for what could be the 3rd best pokemon in the game is alright if you're not a smogon follower.

[Anonymous No.5627352]

>>5626812
Gen 1 AI rarely switches Pokémon out, the only trainer class that does is juggler. Gen 1 AI also sent Pokémon out in order, as opposed to picking the best Pokémon once the current one faints. However, this AI quirk does make the game appear more dramatic, such as the case of the final rival battle sending out his starter out last, to emphasize how far you've come from the very first battle. I do wonder if there are AI modifying hacks out there for any of the games. I imagine making the AI cheat and filling a Pokémons moveset with damaging moves is the only way to make a challenge, seeing as AI can't really think.

[Anonymous No.5627370]

I just lost two of my lads on my FR nuzlocke to starmie. Rattata (Bucky Larson) and Spearow (Kikiro).

[Anonymous No.5627441]

>>5624151
nah

[Anonymous No.5627548]

>>5624151
How can one game be so based?
As soon as this shit came out absolutely nobody played or bought anything else. This was literally the best you could have. If you played anything else on gb or gbc you were a fucking weirdo kid and got bullied

[Anonymous No.5627559]

>>5625784
>Man, fuck Butterfree

I wiah

[Anonymous No.5627605]

>>5624389
Unless you actually wanted a decent fire type. Then it was pretty much mandatory.

[Anonymous No.5627614]

you're practically spoon fed a few Pokemon that can easily handle Patrick even if you are under leveled. Not the case with Misty.

[Anonymous No.5627617]

>>5625382
>>5627614
is this the beginning of a dank /vr/ meme?

[Anonymous No.5627623]

>>5627605
Arcanine, Magmar, Moltres, Flareon, Ninetails, Rapidash, were plenty good enough. Still mad you couldnt find the other guys in the wild though.

[Anonymous No.5627626]

>>5624434
>Enemy Pokémon in Gen 1 rarely had good movesets because they were barely able to cram the game as is in a 1mb cart.
what the fuck are you talking about? A good move and a shit move do not take different amounts of memory to store.

It's now current year, and enemy trainers' pokemon *still* don't have good movesets, and are still shitmons loaded with stall and attrition moves.

[Anonymous No.5627641]

>>5624151
>he didn't pick bulbasaur
Amazing.

>>5624178
It's literally famous for being fast and having a very decent Special stat.
That being said, it still dies because you picked Bulbasaur... right?

>>5627276
I just checked. Absolutely nowhere in the R/B or Yellow (US) manual does it mention what the stats do.

[Anonymous No.5627642]

>>5627623
Arcanine had to wait as a growlithe for FIFTY levels to get flamethrower, ninetales had weak offense, Ponyta was a fucking physical attacker in a gen where fire moves could only be special...
>waiting until the end of the fucking game to get moltres or magmar

some of those were also version exclusives

[Anonymous No.5627889]

>>5627605
Why would you want a fire type at all? Fire was pretty much useless in gen 1.

[Anonymous No.5627902]

>>5627641
Of all of starmie's appeal in gen 1, it's 100 base special was the least impressive. What made it good was that fact that the 100 base special was backed by 115 base speed, recover, great water/psychic typing and a very impressive special movepool.
And starmie was just one of several fast special attackers in gen 1, along with alakazam, jolteon, gengar, zapdos and jynx.

[Anonymous No.5628292]

>>5627280
Better than the gen2 bugs though.

[Anonymous No.5628347]

>>5627280
It and Butterfree are mainly meant to be powerful early and replaced by something better later on.

[Anonymous No.5628356]

>>5628292
Heracross, Foretress, and Scizor say fuck you.

[Anonymous No.5628365]

>>5624372
Or anyone playing Yellow that didn't realize Mankey was useful as a kid. Had to grind for butter free.

[Anonymous No.5628371]

>>5627267
You can't get Beedrill in Yellow. Also anon was talking about when he was a kid

[Anonymous No.5628540]

>>5625760
Fuck, I just realized I said port instead of point.

>>5628292
Gen II started introducing Bug Types that could last throughout the game.

[Anonymous No.5628674]

>>5628347
>meant to be powerful early
Butterfree was. Beedrill wasn't.
Every move it got until Twinneedle sucks ass, but that already at like lvl 20 I think. You could get your Pikachu you either got anyways (Y) or caught in Viridian Forest (RB) to a decent lvl to fight Starmie. It learns Cut, but so what? You could also teach Cut to that Dugtrio you caught for Lt. Surge anyways, that's just helpful if you use your Nidoking (desu everyone should have had Nidoking in RBY) and avoid Dicklet's cave altogether. Erica is a joke if you have Charizard, Fearow or Hypno to name a few.
All of those are also stronger later on.

[Anonymous No.5628689]

>>5624151
yeah whatever dude my ivysaur just one shot it.

[Anonymous No.5628709]

>>5624456
>get nidoran(male)
>clear the whole game with nidoking alone

[Anonymous No.5628769]

>>5627298
>Implying Starmie is better than Tauros
>Implying Starmie is better than Snorlax
>Implying Starmie is better than Chansey
>Implying NPC Starmie is better than your starter

Ok, it's uber if you totally ignore everything about the game you are talking about.

[Anonymous No.5628870]

>>5628292
shut your whore mouth

[Anonymous No.5628917]

>>5624178
100 Special in Gen 1 was pretty good (especially considering what Special was in those days), and you were facing it at the second gym. Pair that with a 115 Speed, and you've got an extremely impressive stat spread that's way better than anything the player is going to have at that point in the game.

That said, its moveset means that it's ultimately not going to be *too* dangerous against a team that's not loaded with Pokemon weak to water types. Whitney's Miltank was dangerous because it was one of the rare enemy Pokemon to employ some semblance of strategy. Attract meant that you weren't even guaranteed a quick KO if you had super effective moves, while Milk Drink on a Pokemon with such high HP added to the frustration. And if you failed to stop Rollout before it gained power, it had the potential to wipe your team.

>>5624569
Pikachu actually didn't learn Thunderbolt at level 21 until Gen VII. Hell, it didn't learn it by level-up at all in RGB. That was added in Yellow.

[Anonymous No.5628969]

>>5628769
>proceeds to dispute what is the 3rd best pokemon in the game
Well I guess you agree with the actual point I was making then.

[Anonymous No.5629691]

>>5624434
https://github.com/pret/pokered
Do it!

[Anonymous No.5629732]

Okay /vr/, I always wanted to ask this question but I never had the opportunity to ask, but today is my chance. How would YOU make Brock an actual challenge to the player? Bear in mind that both of his Pokemon are 4x weak to two starter types, which means you have a 2/3 chance of breezing past him. I was thinking he should have four Pokemon instead of two, and they should be up to level 16 as opposed to 14, his roster would be Geodude, Rhyhorn, Omanyte, and Onix. For example, Geodude would have Body Slam, Dig, Fire Blast (he has awful special but it should deal significant damage to Bulbasaur), and Rock Throw, and his other Pokemon have mixed movesets as well. What would you personally do? And yes, you're free to teach them Gen 1 moves that they would eventually learn in Gen 2 onwards, such as Earthquake/Rockslide for Aerodactyl or Fire Punch for Geodude.

[Anonymous No.5629840]

I wish I could go back to picking pokemon because I thought they were cool and not because a bunch of grown men on an edgy image board decided which were the most efficient and effective

[Anonymous No.5629845]

>>5629732
The first leader shouldn't have fucking rock types in the first place, that's retarded. If GF knew what they were doing the first leader would use normal types.

[Anonymous No.5629850]

>>5629840
>being influenced by the opinions of anonymous people-oids on a cathode ray tube television and digital swashbuckling forvm.

[Anonymous No.5629887]

>>5629845
Considering how well Rock resists Normal which was arguably the best physical type in Gen 1 the Rock type Gym probably should have been one of the last Gyms. It also suffered from the relatively low levels and weak movesets of Brock's Geodude and Onix. If Brock had a Graveler/Golem and a Rhyhorn/Rhydon with a decent moveset it might have been more of a challenge.

[Anonymous No.5629916]

>>5629887
Wait actually maybe it would be better as like the third or fourth Gym. Early on there would be less special attackers that are super effective against them. I forgot about how relatively common Water types are plus their weakness to Grass.

[Anonymous No.5629925]

>>5629840
Unless you're fighting against super competitive people or playing modern Pokemon games online (lol), that never stopped being a choice you can make.

[Anonymous No.5629942]

>>5629845
>waaah waaah it's too hard why doesn't this game handhold me more
GIT GUD

[Anonymous No.5629947]

>>5629925
>that never stopped being a choice you can make
Try the Battle Frontier/later-gen equivalents.

[Anonymous No.5629958]

It's not that hard to nab a Pikachu from the Veridian Forest and level it up. Hopefully you didn't waste all those trainer battles on your starter 'mon.

[Anonymous No.5629973]

>>5629845
According to Ken Sugimori, Brock wasn't meant to be the first gym leader. Which brings up another question, using the existing gym leaders from gen 1, how would you arrange them to make them more logical? I can't think of who else could be first, Erika maybe?

[Anonymous No.5630076]

>>5629973
The first gym leader was gonna be bug type.

[Anonymous No.5630335]

>>5630076
I wonder if that idea eventually became GSCs Bugsy. However he was the second leader, not the first. Though there seems to be a type advantage hierarchy with the Kanto leaders, for example water beats rock, electric beats water, grass resists electric, poison beats grass, and psychic beats poison. Blaine breaks this trend, but Giovanni's ground types beat his fire types.

[Anonymous No.5630426]

>>5629850
>peoploid

Hello fellow Bowie fan.