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/vr/ - Retro Games

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5603275 No.5603275 [Reply] [Original]

Since most games were developed in Japan they're meant to run at around 60hz, with the PAL port at 50hz only being a compatibility thing. But what about games by developers based in PAL-countries, such as Rareware's stuff?

>> No.5603284

>>5603275
OOT was redone in pal.

>> No.5603295

>>5603284
Yeah, they got better at optimizing games for PAL later on, but I'm pretty sure it's impossible to get it to run at the same speed in PAL. Most old video games run at 30 frames in their NTSC version, when you divide the PAL speed of 50 by 2 you'll get 25.

>> No.5603656 [SPOILER] 
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5603656

>>5603275
>"Un'Incredibile Avventure nel Regno di Donkey Kong! Meravigliosa Grafica Computerizzata a 3D!"

>> No.5603673
File: 31 KB, 601x508, IMG_4658.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5603673

>cope general

>> No.5603690
File: 37 KB, 394x350, 1548817559292.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5603690

>>5603673
>composite
>s-video

>> No.5603695

>>5603656
>omlette

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omelette
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omelette

How can the person who made that image fuck up a word that is spelled alike in both languages?

>> No.5603707

>>5603295
>Yeah, they got better at optimizing games for PAL later on, but I'm pretty sure it's impossible to get it to run at the same speed in PAL. Most old video games run at 30 frames in their NTSC version, when you divide the PAL speed of 50 by 2 you'll get 25.

NTSC updates the screen at 60 Hz, PAL at 50 Hz. What the poorly converted games did is slow the entire system down by 16.6% (music, gameplay, everything) so that the same frames would be drawn 16.6% slower.

PAL also has higher vertical resolution, 576 vs NTSC 525. So they would display at the same resolution but have black lines at the top and bottom of the screen for PAL, which also squashed the image.

DKC is actually optimised so that it runs at the same speed. So instead of slowing the game down they just draw fewer frames to match the lower refresh rate. However, the letterboxing (black borders) is still in effect.

>> No.5603708
File: 208 KB, 327x316, 2ec.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5603708

>>5603690
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn7g21y7GvQ

>> No.5603717

>>5603708
>implying anyone still plays the PAL version

>> No.5603723

>>5603707
>DKC is actually optimised so that it runs at the same speed. So instead of slowing the game down they just draw fewer frames to match the lower refresh rate. However, the letterboxing (black borders) is still in effect.
So, even Rareware's games tend to be inferior in their PAL version?

>> No.5603748

>>5603295
All games pre gen 5 run at 60.

Oot runs around 20 and pal version is 17

>> No.5606948

Secret of Mana has PAL exclusive bugfixes.

>> No.5606953

>>5603723
Depends, DKC3 is a lot better optimized for 50hz then the slowdown mess it is at 60hz

>> No.5606979

>>5603748
You're confusing refresh rate with the fps. 60/50hz is how fast the video signal refreshes on a screen.

oot's animation frame rate is 20 when displayed at 60hz and takes a hit when displayed at the slower refresh rate of 50hz.

NTSC TVs were 60hz and most PAL TVs before the 2000s were 50hz. It wasn't until the 6th generation that PAL games had a 60hz opition built in. For whatever reason nearly every PAL Gamecube game had 60hz mode whereas it was rare on PS2 with some big name PS2 titles still having terrible conversions

>> No.5606998

>>5603275
I guess that just because a game was developed in a PAL territory doesn't necessarily mean that it was developed for PAL format from the get-go. If a game were only ever meant to release in PAL territories, then it would make sense to develop it with that format in mind.

>> No.5607640

>>5606948
That's quite typical for PAL-versions, but if the game wasn't properly optimized and made use of the extra resolution it isn't worth it.
>>5606953
If it still doesn't use the extra resolution, it becomes more of a subjective thing if this is worth it or not.
>>5606979
>NTSC TVs were 60hz and most PAL TVs before the 2000s were 50hz
Actually, all PAL TVs I've ever tested have managed 60hz, most of them dating back to the early 90s or late 80s. Developers continued to convert games to PAL only for compatibility reasons, especially since a lot of players would use a much older TV for gaming.
>>5606979
>For whatever reason nearly every PAL Gamecube game had 60hz mode
Yeah, I think all first party games were like that. Some, like Metroid Prime 2, only ran in 60hz mode in their PAL version. For these games the PAL version is obviously the definitive one.

>> No.5608272
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5608272

>>5606948

>> No.5608407

Games with a frame rate matching the refresh rate (i.e. all good action games) should be played on low persistence displays (e.g. CRTs, or emulators with black frame insertion) to avoid sample-and-hold blur. 60Hz flicker is merely annoying, but 50Hz flicker is intolerable. Therefore there are no good PAL action games.

>> No.5609087

>>5606948
same with Lufia 2

>> No.5609093

>>5603275
>Rareware's stuff
Their N64 games felt slow as fuck on NTSC. I don't want to imagine how they ran on PAL.

>> No.5609169

Is there a list of PAL versions that are optimized? (preferably snes and 64)

>> No.5610625

>>5609169
None are truly optimized for the SNES, except for exclusives.

>> No.5610864

>>5610625
Well sure, but what I mean as in it works slightly better on PAL than directly using the NTSC version on PAL

>> No.5610885

Back to the Future III PAL on the Sega Genesis is literally the only way to play this game. The speed wasn't optimized at all for the NA version and makes the game much more difficult than intended.

>> No.5610894

LOL.
Software Creations did development entirely in NTSC for NES.
Rare used NTSC Famicom models and NTSC Super Nintendo systems.

>> No.5610924

I wish I was good at romhacking stuff so I could make Soleil (Crusader of Centy) run on NTSC mode permanently without the region lock. It sucks to have to boot it on PAL and then switch it. The US version has a terrible, terrible translation.

>> No.5610948

>>5610894
>Software Creations did development entirely in NTSC for NES
proofs?

>> No.5610962

>>5610864
>than directly using the NTSC version on PAL
There's no reason to use PAL-consoles except for exclusives or games that can be said to be in their definitive version in PAL. Buying a Super Famicom isn't very expensive, I got my 1Chip SuFami for like 5000 yen, you can get it way cheaper if you're not as picky.

>> No.5610963

>>5610924
>The US version has a terrible, terrible translation
Wouldn't it be simpler to just port the translation from the PAL version to the NTSC version then?

>> No.5610974

>>5610963
No idea really.

>> No.5612021

>>5603275
Despite the Naughty Dog Crash games being developed in America, they're very well optimised for PAL versions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_QX6UGiGtE

>> No.5612028

>>5603656
That's italian, you dip.

>> No.5612067

>>5612021

Isnt naughty dog Australia?

>> No.5612331

>>5612067
>DescriptionNaughty Dog, LLC is an American first-party video game developer based in Santa Monica, California.

>> No.5614404

>>5612331
Crash is as California as it gets. You can tell all the way that the dev was from there.

>> No.5614421

>>5603673
>>5603690
>>5603708
Get bent

>> No.5614739

Colin McRae Rally I guess