Any JRPGs where Christianity isn't evil?

[Anonymous No.5559568]

This is a pretty consistent trope. I think I've had my fill of killing God.

Xenogears, Lunar, Breath of Fire, Final Fantasy, Phantasy Star, Chrono, Tales, etc all those series have an evil Christian analogue religion.

[Anonymous No.5559571]

>>5559568
They're just being realistic.

[Anonymous No.5559572]

Dragon Quest kinda, since the church is usually the one that heals/resurrects you.

[Anonymous No.5559579]

Earthbound you have to beat the boss by praying.

[Anonymous No.5559614]

Christianity is portrayed as evil in japanese media because it's a concept that's foreign to them. They were only introduced to Christianism in the 1500s, and even then they were persecuted by the government - much more openly than in England, for example.

So they portray Christianity as "evil", not out of malice in their hearts, but because they see it as a foreign concept. One example from another media, anime: all the Christian imagery in Evangelion is not symbolism, they just thought it looked cool. It looked cool because they see Christianity as foreign.

For example, the final boss of Samurai Shodown 1, Amakusa, was inspired by a real-life person, Amakusa Shiro Tokisada, who led the Shimabara Rebellion (when he was merely 17 years old!).

[Anonymous No.5559621]

>>5559614
The Shimabara Rebellion was a rebellion of Roman Catholics against the Shogunate, I forgot add. And Amakusa was 16 when the rebellion started - he was 17 when he was executed. A lot of anime and manga adapt either this story or the character of Amakusa. I think SamSho's portrayal comes from Makai Tensho.

[Anonymous No.5559634]

>>5559614
Amakusa was this nigga?! I had no idea.

[Anonymous No.5559635]

Honestly I don't recall Chrono or Final Fantasy having an evil christian church

In Chrono Trigger the chapel is an actual hideout for the demons used to trick humans, so actually the religion is good over there

FF I played up to IX and honestly can't recall an evil church. There's lots of enemies who are demons and fallen angels, even.

[Anonymous No.5559639]

>church is evil in Tales

[Anonymous No.5559647]

>>5559635
There isn't an evil church in any of the /vr/ mainline FF games, but I'm assuming the OP is referring specifically to FF Tactics.

And yeah, there wasn't an organized religion that was evil in Chrono Trigger, it was just one chapel in the 600s that was infiltrated by the same monster line who infiltrated as the Chancellor in present timeline.

[Anonymous No.5559653]

>>5559635
>>5559647
Technically, X's is a pretty blunt analogue in regards to imagery, but the way Yevon operates is straight up like the Jewish globalists.

[Anonymous No.5559656]

>>5559653
That's why I said /vr/ mainline FF.

[Anonymous No.5559673]

>>5559647
The Mystics/Fiends are literally muslims being led by a false pophet (Magus)

[Anonymous No.5559675]

>>5559572
The first final fantasy gen had churches for revival too

[Anonymous No.5559676]

jannytranny at work again.

[Anonymous No.5559681]

>>5559676
Can't be too hard on him this time. It's kind weird to delete such an innocuous exchange, but it was non-retro and that's how it should be.

[Anonymous No.5559685]

Yevon is modeled more on a very strict brand of Buddhism

[Funcoland Clown No.5559703]

I feel fairly confident that Jesus is never specifically mentioned in any Japanese retro game period (feel free to prove me wrong) so this discussion will just end up being "this game's christianesque religion is more accurate than that game's because it more closely aligns with my subjective opinion"

[Anonymous No.5559708]

>>5559703
Thanks for being pedantic and not really adding anything. You really are fun to be around.

[Anonymous No.5559714]

>>5559568
Organized religion IS evil, though. You don't need pedophile priests to tell you how to live your life.

[Funcoland Clown No.5559718]

>>5559708
This is a troll thread. Go play Grandia II you fucking godless heathen.

[Funcoland Clown No.5559721]

>>5559714
See what I'm saying? This thread should be deleted asap.

[Anonymous No.5559732]

>>5559718
>>5559721
You should be like this anon>>5559614 who can approach a topic with a nuanced stance and actually be informative without shitposting.

Into the filter you go.

[Anonymous No.5559734]

>>5559568
Nobody here thinks Christianity is evil. It is just a very exotic and foreign thing to Japanese.

[Anonymous No.5559739]

>>5559734
I must add to that despite practicing forms of Buddhisms and Shinto, most Japanese are what you call would agnostics.

[Anonymous No.5559754]

>>5559614
Seems like an odd behavior to exhibit. Especially since some of these are AAA titles. I don't think western rpgs go on about muslims too much.

That said, I do realize a lot of it is off kilter romanticizing, but other aspects seem very dismissive.

[Anonymous No.5559771]

>>5559568
It's >not retro unless you count it as on-topic due to being an extension of the Dragon Slayer series but the Trails series has a church who are unanimously good guys.

[Anonymous No.5559789]

>>5559714
>t. Shekelberg Goldstein

[Anonymous No.5559801]

>>5559789
Go read the Bible again. Jesus would never have approved of shit like the Vatican.

[Anonymous No.5559805]

>>5559571
*tips fedora*

[Anonymous No.5559806]

>>5559801
who says we approve of the catholic church heathen

[Anonymous No.5559816]

>>5559579
Praying isn't a christian concept

[Anonymous No.5559828]

>>5559568
In Zelda II you play a zealous christian on a one man crusade to eradicate all muslims after mohammad is dead

[Anonymous No.5559839]

>>5559754
Anglos (which is what most people are referring to when they say "western") have way more interaction with the outside world than Japan.

Japan is an island with basically no natural resources of its own (fishing doesn't count), so there's a lot more barriers to migrating to/invading Japan than most other countries. This means that cultural exchange is much rarer there and happens way less often

[Anonymous No.5559840]

>>5559816
It is in when you're American

[Batowl No.5559856]

>>5559568
Only in xenogears.

[Anonymous No.5559860]

>>5559839
This explains a lot!

[Anonymous No.5559941]

>>5559568
It's a metaphor, you goober. They don't actually hate Christianity. They see it as an exotic curiosity.

[Anonymous No.5559952]

Honestly? There's nothing wrong with making an Abrahamic religion out to be evil in a videogame.

[Anonymous No.5559956]

>>5559952
based and volkpilled

[Anonymous No.5559961]

>>5559614
Considering that most healers/healing centers in JRPGs use a cross and that you could only find one example of Christianity being portrayed as "evil" in Japanese media (I'll throw in two more for you: SMT and possibly Samurai Shodown), your conclusion here is baseless shit that doesn't follow your initial premise.

[Anonymous No.5559971]

>>5559952
>died from STD
Sasuga, pleb.

[Anonymous No.5559980]

>>5559568
Depending on your ideology SMT counts. While some people call them evil there are people who genuinely believe in the ideologies of law.

DQ is pretty pro Christianity, priests are usually good guys. In DQVII God, literally even just called "God", is a character and he's actually a good guy. In the post game you can even have a friendly battle with him, if you win he congratulates you and says how impressed by you he is for mere humans.

[Anonymous No.5559979]

>>5559971
t. christcuck jelly that a fedora got more pussy than him

[Anonymous No.5559992]

>>5559979
Dilate before posting, sister. It will help your mood

[Anonymous No.5560007]

>>5559992
i hate trannies, i just think it's funny you follow a desertnigger death cult believing that that will save the west

[Anonymous No.5560010]

>>5559568
Catholicism isn't Christianity, though.

[Anonymous No.5560026]

>>5560007
>have sex incel. neurosyphillis is for ubermenschen

[Anonymous No.5560045]

>>5560010
The world conveniently sees "all white men" as representatives of Christianity, too

[Anonymous No.5560063]

>>5560007
Christ is life brother

[Anonymous No.5560070]

>>5559572
It's funny that the priest still REQUIRES you to pay money to get resurrected, or else they don't care. I think they even say some harsh words if you don't have money to pay.
>>5559579
>>5559816
At least Ana from Mother 1 is canonically christian since you find her in a church. They censored the christian crosses on the NoA localization though.

[Anonymous No.5560092]

>>5560070
>the priest requires you to pay money
It's one of the 7 Catholic sacraments to do so

[Anonymous No.5560162]

>>5559961
Amakusa is literally a demon in SamSho 1.

[Anonymous No.5560190]

>>5559980
Seems a bit odd looking at it. He seems to get upset when you beat him. And its implied you've overpowered God. Doesn't sit right with me to be flinging spells at him, but there's been worse portrayals.

[Anonymous No.5560193]

>>5559614
>Amakusa
Isn't Amakusa in Rurouni Kenshin too? He blinded Kenshin's eyes.

[Anonymous No.5560212]

>>5559828
Implying Zelda 2 is an RPG is the least retarded thing that this post is implying

[Anonymous No.5560238]

>>5559568
>evil Christian analogue religion.
Actually no, most of those series just have a generic "evil religion." If you perceive every evil religion as an analogue to Christianity, that probably says more about Christianity than you'd like to admit.

[Anonymous No.5560241]

>>5560212
t. assblasted savage

[Anonymous No.5560252]

>>5560241
T. Brown guy missing his foreskin

[Anonymous No.5560253]

>>5560193
The Amakusa (Shogo) in Kenshin took the Amakusa part of the name, but he wasn't Amakusa Shiro. His rebellion is based on the Shimabara Rebellion, though.

[Anonymous No.5560272]

>>5559568
Shining Force, most Dragon Quests, a bunch of series... Unsurprisingly the churches are more just background elements in those games because you don't flesh out elements that aren't going to be involved in the story, and making the church important to the story without the "OMG I NEVER PREDICTED THAT" plot twist of them actually being evil is too hard, I guess.

[Anonymous No.5560276]

>>5560252
you meant that for the post I replied to

[Anonymous No.5560353]

>>5560276
No. I'm sorry if I'm not speaking Hebrew

[Anonymous No.5560359]

>>5560353
You're not okay with a game that has a chad killing a mohammedan's minions? Are you Talmudic or poo?

[Anonymous No.5560380]

>>5560359
Neither. Just don't see how it relates to Zelda 2

[Anonymous No.5560463]

What are the real options?

>There is no church
Most games fall under this category.

>The church is neutral
Any game where the church is just a flavor way of healing or resurrecting your party or saving or whatever.

>The church is evil
Extremely cliche, but popular because it goes against the player's assumption that the church is good (insert edgy comments here) and it's just an easy way to push major story events.

>The church is good
It's a lot more difficult to write an interesting story suitable for an RPG where the church plays an active good role. Your party members are the good guys, so at best the church could be a supporting element that what, was protecting a divine sword that can kill the demons? Been done. And it's not like having party members that are part of the clergy is rare in JRPGs, either.

[Anonymous No.5560481]

>>5559703
Yeah it's almost never really specifically christianity, it's usually just something that shares a lot of similarities.
It's just really.to show how a large religion like it can be used to control and violate a world.

[Anonymous No.5560501]

Which in-game religion would you say is the most close to actual Christianity/Catholicism?
I think the ST eva religion in breath of fire 2 does a pretty decent job of it.

[Anonymous No.5560865]

If we are talking more generally speaking about Nip games and not just JRPGs, Harvest Moon has a Church were people go on Sundays and also provides schooling for the youth.

[Anonymous No.5560869]

>>5559571

[Anonymous No.5561078]

>>5559952
With this post I can tell you've never read Nietzsche

[Anonymous No.5561091]

Christards would have to Learn2Code before they can ever make such a thing.

[Anonymous No.5561098]

>>5561091
based

[Anonymous No.5561116]

>>5560070
Video game and all, so they can't just let you resurrect someone for nothing.
In-game could have an explanation of local churches running on donations like they do in real life.
If such a thing were real, Ideally, it wouldn't be a mandatory donation, just something you'd do to show thankfulness

[Anonymous No.5561121]

>>5559571
Nah, that wpuld be he case if it was islam

[Anonymous No.5561140]

>>5561091
I got bad news for you sweetie

[Anonymous No.5561165]

>>5559571
the internet was a blessing from the Lord Jesus to spread the word of God throughout the world, but then Muslims and pedophiles stole it and used its holy power to seduce children like yourself

[Anonymous No.5561187]

>>5560501
The Church of Zod from the Shining series is aesthetically middle ages Christianity in every way but the name. Although it doesn't play a big story role, it's a resurrect / save point church.

[Anonymous No.5561235]

>>5561078
Sounds like you haven't. Nietzsche loathed Christianity, called it slave morality, etc.

[Anonymous No.5561364]

>>5559568
I would think you'd like Lunar then since although the church itself has become corrupt, the divine force behind it is still very much good. It's like Jesus with boobs returning to the earth/moon to show how the church has been missing the real message and toss those money changers out of the temples. It's pretty darn positive as religion in games goes.

[Anonymous No.5561603]

>>5560010
wow such logic

[Anonymous No.5561616]

>>5559568
Is that true? That in all these games they portray Christianity in a bad way? Tell me more.

I never liked JRPGs and turn based combat games. I was right then.

[Anonymous No.5561617]

>>5559614
>(when he was merely 17 years old!)

Dude, Alexander the Great was wrecking shit from 16. Nobunaga was also 17 whe he took over Oda and started war with Mino.
17-year olds leading wars is nothing out of the ordinary for most of human history.

[Anonymous No.5561618]

>>5561140
Noah's Ark for SNES isn't an RPG, tho.

[Anonymous No.5561738]

How do games like FFT imply that Christianity is evil? The villains simply piggyback organized religion to fulfill their own unrelated agenda. This isn't an implication that religion itself is the problem, but rather the lack of separation between church and state, and the authoritative institutions (i.e. religious organization) based around a particular belief system. The characters in these stories usually do believe in the same deity or deities as everyone else, even after exposing the internal corruption of the church.

It's highly gullible for someone to think that questioning an institution in any way is the same thing as questioning the religion or values that is proclaims to uphold. Corruption can occur within any institution, period. If you really believe otherwise, then you're only setting yourself up to be exploited.

[Anonymous No.5561749]

>>5559568
>>5560463
Xenogears subverts the fuck out of everything and has good and evil examples of both. Deus is evil, but the Wave Existence is good, Ethos is sort-of evil, but the Nisaan sect is good, etc.

[Anonymous No.5561753]

>>5561738
>It's highly gullible for someone to think that questioning an institution in any way is the same thing as questioning the religion or values that is proclaims to uphold.
have you ever been to church?

[Anonymous No.5561761]

>>5561753
Have you ever left your basement

[Anonymous No.5561815]

>>5561753
Do you want separation of Catholicism & State or separation of Protestantism & State?
I'm pretty sure the tards will kill each other for teh lulz cause they misinterpreted something the other side thought was misinterpreted.

[Anonymous No.5561864]

>>5559732
Nuanced lol? He's just making shit up

[Anonymous No.5561874]

I don't like Christianity but it's such an easy target and the snarkiness directed at Christianity is peak soi

[Anonymous No.5561887]

>>5561815
Separation of church and state means the separation of all churches, numb nuts

[Princess Sevenleaf !IT2uZpX.Ic No.5562856]

Why are Christians always butthurt if their religion is portrayed in a not-completely-positive light? Castlevania has evil witches who serve Dracula and want to kill you, but that never bothered me.

[Anonymous No.5562883]

>>5559568
>butthurt about Shin Megami Tensei

Go play Actraiser

[Anonymous No.5562970]

>>5559703
It's not Christianity that is evil, it is religion in general. Just the way it was seen.

[Anonymous No.5562976]

>>5562856
Getting mad at your religion being portrayed as evil is not exclusive to christians

[Anonymous No.5563014]

>>5562856
>Princess Sevenleaf

[Anonymous No.5563037]

>>5562856
namefag

[Anonymous No.5563175]

>>5561738

did you not play the game?

there were so many layers of misdirection and parallels in FFT aimed specifically at themes in Christianity that a couple of them were phonetic alliterations. Judas- Jermonik?

and not only that, it lays the entire inception of the church as malformed opportunism, concealed from the masses instead of a natural development.

(in fact, thats the one plot hole I found annoying and just unignorable, why germonik's scriptures would have had anything to do with the framework of sealing the airship graveyard below that monastery)

seriously, did you not play the game?

The prophet of the Christianity analog in the end was an old world evil god.

[Anonymous No.5563182]

>>5559568
>Chrono
Wait, what? Do you mean the Mammon Machine?

[Anonymous No.5563193]

>>5559568
When you think about it, it is a trope hard to resist, like the rebel army against the empire or the conspiracy to take the control from within. And videogames are characterized for not being too original.

That said, God is the natural progression in a game were you end up from killing rats to killing dragons. Japan is used to think that there are hundreds of gods, making the killing of one of them no much special. Buddhism also has the concept of 'killing the Buddha', don't let anybody tell you that one interpretation of Buddhism is above someone else's. The only intances of organized cults comes from sects or foreign religions. There were also some terrorists attacks perpetrated by a sect in Japan in the 90s that maybe influenced the storytelling in Japan.

[Anonymous No.5563201]

>>5563193
It's the Autism God. Can't have any others.

[Anonymous No.5563247]

>>5562856
Catholic guilt, 90% of the time

[Anonymous No.5563290]

>>5563193
>Japan is used to think that there are hundreds of gods, making the killing of one of them no much special.

You can't kill a god in Japanese mythology.
That's a wholly Chinese thing. The thing is, Chinese literature forms the basis of Japanese literature and thus story-telling.
So while killing gods is not a thing in Japan, it is an innate part of their stoytelling.

[Anonymous No.5563340]

>>5559639
Retards read "Church of Martel" and "Angels" and assume it's a take on Christianity and don't realize that the two worlds is a play on a two party political system.
The Church is the media which hypes up the "Chosen One" (a political candidate) to complete the "journey of regeneration" (campaign where you go around and get votes).
Angels are emotionless beings because they are retired politicians who become martyrs for their party (literal caskets in the towers in each world).
The only way to break the cycle of these endless elections is to merge the two worlds (political parties).

[Anonymous No.5563349]

>>5559614
it's like when westerners people get kanji tattoos and it looks like some mundane shit the japanese, as if we saw a japanese person wearing a shirt that said "grass"

[Anonymous No.5563423]

>>5562856
It’s misrepresentation and miscommunication more then anything else. When you portray a dead guy hanging from a cross “ala shin megami tensei“ in a christ like pose that isn’t referring to Christ but is taking advantage of his popularity and holyness that’s sacreligouis.

Makeing sure people clueless about christianity, those who know nothing about this game or have played it and didn’t truly realize what it meant helps stop stuff like this from happening in the future

[Anonymous No.5563434]

>>5559571
Proof that Japanese are smarter than mutts.

[Anonymous No.5563518]

>>5563175
>what anon thinks FFT is

>what FFT actually is

[Anonymous No.5563579]

>>5559568
>triggered by evil Christian analogue religion
>not enjoying the sick pandering the the religion of peace
>not being a fully digital bit-identical NPC cuck
Must suck to live in the upside down of 1984 without knowing it

[Anonymous No.5563597]

>>5559568
Wild Arms?

[Anonymous No.5563613]

>>5563518
This post deserves to be on a museum

[Anonymous No.5563619]

Not rpgs but the classic Castlevanias were about mercenaries of the Vatican killing demons with holy powers,

[Anonymous No.5563647]

Dragon Quest has always had the church being good guys. Chapels are where you save, cure ailments and other such things.

[Anonymous No.5563671]

>>5559828
Dunno about that but...

[Funcoland Clown No.5564032]

>>5563349
>Asians would never do this

[Anonymous No.5564056]

>>5559568
If some Christianity-like religion has to be in a JRPG, I at least want to punch them in the face.

[Anonymous No.5566131]

>>5559568
Yeah, no they don't. I don't think even half of those games have a 'Christianity is evil' twist.

>>5559614
>because it's a concept that's foreign to them.
Yeah, bugger off. Christianity is Japan's second most popular relgion. It's big.

[Anonymous No.5566136]

>>5561617
you just listed some very extraordinary people though, alexander the great is a one of a kind figure that's hardly matched by billions of humans in history

[Anonymous No.5566346]

>>5559568
In contrast to American fantasy, which has roots that stretch to late 19th century anti-liberalism, Japanese fantasy tends to be more about national identity. Japan tends to be very liberal but in a conservative way and conformity tends to discredit the horseshoe-end nerd politics that used to inform Western fantasy. So when the Japanese tell fantasy stories the stories are about their own culture and its values (good: environmentalism; bad: militarism) and not about utopias, dystopias, or second-hand nostalgia for the good old days.

The idea of God (with a capital G) could be seen as un-Japanese and threatening in contrast to gods who tend to be benevolent. Strict religious observance would also fall in that category. In addition, a person who becomes God has shades of emperor worship that the Japanese see as a recipe for tragedy.

[Anonymous No.5566475]

>>5559568
>Any JRPGs where Christianity isn't evil?
Almost all of them?

[Anonymous No.5566493]

>>5566346
>Japan tends to be very liberal but in a conservative way

And you're trying to be smart in a retarded way

[Anonymous No.5566506]

>>5566493
He's right though. By mannerism and attitude, most Japanese liberals would be called rather conservative in many western countries.

[Anonymous No.5566518]

>>5566506
How so? Are they influenced by Western classical liberalism?

[Anonymous No.5566641]

>>5561617
I wrecked your moms shit when I was 16

[Anonymous No.5566740]

>>5559754
Western developers used to go about Islam quite a lot in the past - most "evil" religions had some subtle or not so subtle muslim imagery - the Qun in Dragon Age being the most obvious example. They kinda dropped it for some reason and now they fetishize the fuck out of Islam.

[Anonymous No.5567581]

>>5563423
Deusvalt larper autistic poltard spotted