/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.5540223]

/vr/ ready to admit Lunar Apocalypse is the best episode in the game?

[Anonymous No.5540246]

I ready to admit that I always liked it because of the aliens feeling and some of the mutli-tier level designs. The drones are understandably the worst part, but you also really get access to the whole arsenal of weapons.

Now are we ready to admit that tripbombs were kind of useless until you learned the level and knew where enemies would spawn?

[Anonymous No.5540251]

not until these get officially patched out

[Anonymous No.5540252]

>>5540246
the drones aint shit when you use the pistol most peoples mistake is they try to use the shotgun

[Anonymous No.5540254]

>>5540251
git gud

>>5540252
Same with the chaingun. And the freeze cannon since I always seem to forget about it. Really any of the fast firing weapons that just keep them stunned.

[Anonymous No.5540259]

Honestly my overall least favorite episode, even though I like some moments from it. Much prefer the episodes set on Earth.

[Anonymous No.5540269]

>>5540223
No
also filters

[Anonymous No.5540283]

>>5540223
Sucks that build engine games don't have the same caliber of map makers like Doom has.

[Anonymous No.5540294]

>>5540283
uhhh doom 2 is trash compared to every major build game

[Anonymous No.5540406]

The levels/atmosphere are jarring compared to the other episodes, but damn is some of the music nice:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz3_c8lXTns

>>5540294
Doesn't matter

Dukes mapping community has been dwindling over the past 10 years, but Doom's is still thriving

[Anonymous No.5540407]

>>5540294
List build engine game map packs that are as high tier was the wads the Doom community has pumped out. You know what I fucking meant.

[Anonymous No.5540410]

>>5540407
u gay

[Anonymous No.5540412]

>>5540407
>>5540406
I wish mapster was as easy to use as doom builder because there is way more you can do with the build engine.

[Anonymous No.5540413]

>>5540406
I think the levels are fitting enough duke is going on a counter assault by going to space to kick their asses it's pretty badass.

[Anonymous No.5540568]

>>5540410
rekt

[Anonymous No.5540653]

>>5540251
dncornholio
dnstuff

there, it's official, m8

[Anonymous No.5540682]

>>5540254
Huh, I always assumed the freezethrower wouldn't work on them since they're mechanical. Maybe that's expecting too much logic of a 90s FPS.

[Anonymous No.5540960]

I've been saying this for years.

I genuinely believe the people who spread the "Lunar Apocalypse is shit" meme are people who've only played the game once or twice, or people with superficial taste.

ep2 is an acquired taste that takes time. On the surface things look different, but once you really know the game by heart, you should realize that ep2 has the the most imaginative and detailed architecture, level layouts; but also the craziest effects, and, outside of a couple of Sentry Drones, the most fun enemy placement and pistol start balance in the entire game.

That is without mentionning the atmosphere and the awe-some, grand scale, level themes.

EP1 is great, but it's missing half the weapons and enemies, and more importantly, is too short, and among those few maps, e1l2 Red Light District is average at best once you're past the iconic pool table and porn table, which on the long run provide nothing.

ep3 is very uneven. It has some great maps but also a lot of stuff feel "been there, done that already", and some maps like the Movie Set/Rabid Transit/Farenheit trio are very short, squarish and inspired. Stadium is also objectively the worst map in the game.

More importantly, enemy placement through ep3 feels for the most part very "random", thoughtless, done too quickly.
This is an example of the kind of stuff you're hardly going to realize on your first or 2nd playthrough, it is on the long run that you get to realize that the fights in ep3 just aren't as fun as in ep2.

[Anonymous No.5541024]

Lunar Apocalypse is good, but it also has the most bullshit of the episodes. Not that the others don't have bullshit, but Ep 2 has the most.
>Sentry drone spam
>Most dangerous and confusing level traps
>Battlelol and fat commander spam

[Anonymous No.5541059]

>>5540960
I want to argue with you but i can't, so that means your right.

I always felt 3 ep 3 was the best, but yeah, ep2 is much more consistent in it's quality, all good vs ep 1 and ep 3, having 2 or 3 goat maps and the rest sub-par.

[Anonymous No.5541137]

>>5540412
Mapster is easy to use, but I'm saying that probably because I spend years using the original tools for DOS.

[Anonymous No.5541139]

>>5540406
Doom/Doom II is good at more abstract maps, BUILD succeeds at creating semi-realistic places.

I like both for different reasons.

[Anonymous No.5541140]

>>5540960
Episode 2 has its definitive heights and lows, just like every other episode.

[Anonymous No.5541151]

>>5540223
e3 is the clear best tho

[Anonymous No.5541659]

>>5540223
the atmosphere of the episode is unmatched. it really captures the space feeling visually, in a way I've seen very few games do.

also:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fl_1ioJBb1U

[Anonymous No.5542040]

>>5540251
How am I supposed to blow up the corpses for free without them on Damn I'm Good?

[Anonymous No.5542462]

does the original Duke Nukem 3D have Doom-style auto-aim? cuz i found the aiming to be hard when the character is moving at 200mph.

[Anonymous No.5542567]

>>5542462
Yes. It was pretty common to play these early first person shooters with just a keyboard and no mouse. If you're playing with a mouse you should turn it off and learn to aim at fast speeds, but nothing is stopping you from doing so

[Anonymous No.5542875]

>>5540960
>ep2 is an acquired taste that takes time. On the surface things look different, but once you really know the game by heart, you should realize that ep2 has the the most imaginative and detailed architecture, level layouts; but also the craziest effects
Yes.

>e1l2 Red Light District is average at best
No.

>ep3 is very uneven
Ep 3 drops like a rock towards the end, starting at around Movie Set. Ep 4 feels way much more like the real final ending, and that has a few duds in the middle but quickly regains quality at the end.

>Stadium is also objectively the worst map in the game.
Why? At least it's clean, simple and fun. Not including secrets, I think the worst map is something from episode 3, like Rabid Transit and Fahrenheit, which look ugly and aren't fun.

>ep3 feels for the most part very "random", thoughtless, done too quickly
Yeah, but ep 2 also has lots of *teleports behind you* moments with even worse enemies as well.

[Anonymous No.5542974]

I love ep2 but i hate the protozoid slimes, they freak me the fuck out

[Anonymous No.5542990]

>>5540223
Not a tough admission for me m8, I knew it was the best back in the 90's. Space > smut.

[Anonymous No.5542994]

>>5540223
Shrapnel City better

[Anonymous No.5543602]

>>5541024
>Dude let's put 3 battlelords in this room with a key up a slope lmao

[Anonymous No.5543615]

>>5540223
This was my opinion from the very start. The space horror theme just fits the game way better than the urban/industrial/canyon themes. And also most of the best maps of the game are on Ep 2.

[Anonymous No.5543616]

>>5543602
Doom baby playing Duke:
>hmm, a dark room which was locked by a keycard? Oh well, I'll just rush into the middle of it and turn around on myself hoping for the best

True Build engine master race player:
>room is dark and locked by a key, something must be up
>I'll be careful and use the Night vision goggles provided to me earlier in the map
>Ha! Battelords! They haven't seen me yet, I'll lure out of the room the 2 first ones and dispense of them quickly using the Devastator I got just earlier in the map
>For the third one, I'll take go in and take cover behind those pillars. Since I'm a good secret hunter as well, no doubt I will find the atomic health in the room to help.

[Anonymous No.5543630]

>>5543616
and btw, the Night Vision Goggles are literally placed next to the room; while the Devastator is provided next to the key which lets you open this door.

Take. A. Clue.

[Anonymous No.5543635]

>>5543616
>Hitscans you to death in 2 seconds
>Blows you up in one second with bombs

[Anonymous No.5543638]

>>5543616
Actually, you have like 15 units of devastator ammo by that point. Maybe more, but definitely not enough to tackle not even two battlelords, but maybe even one.
What you are actually meant to use is RPG for which, if you have found ALL the preceding secrets (including that niche from which sentry drones flew out of - which contains at least 5 rockets, and which requires you to pull off a really tricky running-jump-while-on-steroids in order to access it), you will have precisely 15 shots for, not to miss a single shot (5 shots per a battlelord), and use devastator just as a backup tool, in case you weren't lucky with random factors, or missed a shot, or something.
But yeah, the key part is that aforementioned jump. It literally constitutes the difference between beating the level comfortably, and desperatly scraping by.

[Anonymous No.5543670]

>>5543615
HAHAHAHA

No.

Duke is all about city maps, deal with it. YOu opinion in unpopular and shit.

[Anonymous No.5544070]

>>5543630
>Take. A. Clue.
Cringe

[Anonymous No.5544382]

Can we agree The Birth is the worst?

[Anonymous No.5544508]

>>5544382
Not counting WT which I haven't played yet, I do agree The Birth is overall the episode with less soul. I also hate the fact that your title screen needs to be plastered with that annoying ATOMIC stamp (at least PLUTONIUM had a short life) and that the menu font became some fat, grungy, inconsistent looking scruff marks instead of the sleek metal typewriter kino font they had in the original release.

[Anonymous No.5544537]

>>5544508
It's the one I play through the least. The protector drones are fucking annoying if you don't have any chaingun cannon or freezethrower ammo. I have WT but I usually play eduke32. It's ok, there are 2 really awesome levels and other than that the levels are gigantic and the original 3 bosses appear as mini and regular variants during levels.

[Anonymous No.5544724]

>>5544382
Yes.

[Anonymous No.5546345]

>>5540223
It's the most atmospheric one and my favorite.

[Anonymous No.5546432]

>>5542040
>playing on Damn I'm Good

[Anonymous No.5546436]

>>5543635
>dying from their bombs

[Anonymous No.5546440]

>>5542994
Patrician opinion

[Anonymous No.5546685]

>>5540223
This entire thread and its responses are proof that Build Engine (mostly Duke and Blood) swarms with a new zoomer fanbase that would rather change (for the worst) something made more than 20 years ago than just git gud at it. This saddens me deeply, don't you have something like the new anime FPS game to play? It's very clear that this stuff isn't for you, you are the guy who plays Blood on Still Kicking with constant save-scum and god knows what other shit would you pull off with poor Duke.

[Anonymous No.5546754]

>>5546685
I personally don't care about Blood nearly as much as you seem to. Just sayin'.

[Anonymous No.5546768]

>>5543630
By the way, if I am not mistaken, night googles' placement mirrors to an extent the placement of the steroids bottle, which is, IIRC, tucked beside the ramp through which you first enter into screenshotted circular hallway, just as night vision googles are in relation to screenshotted ramp leading to the "Trio" - although maybe on a different side in relation to it (like to the right of the ramp when you face it - as opposed to to-the-left, as seen on the screenshot)? Don't remember for sure.

[Anonymous No.5546798]

>>5546754
I never said that though? I played all the build games almost equally. Also there's something called exceptions...

[Anonymous No.5546804]

>>5546685
>This entire thread and its responses are proof that Build Engine (mostly Duke and Blood) swarms with a new zoomer fanbase that would rather change (for the worst) something made more than 20 years ago than just git gud at it.
Any time you see discussion of episode 2, no matter the age range, even on Duke fan forums, people will pop up to hate on sentries. I personally don't mind them, but clearly it's not just zoomers that they annoy.
>This saddens me deeply, don't you have something like the new anime FPS game to play?
What? Since when is anime FPS even a thing? Japan doesn't do FPS.

[Anonymous No.5546824]

>>5546804
There were some japanese FPS games. Like, Iron Angel of the Apocalypse / Tetsujin 1 and 2, Robotica (all three - ridiculous shit).
The most noteworthy one I am aware of is Breakdown for OG XboX.

[Anonymous No.5546826]

Honestly the sentries are only really bad on that one level where you open a secret door and like 10 of them come out in a very small area. The area is so small it's easy to blow yourself up with explosive, so you gotta retreat and slowly take them out or just take some damage. But overall if you are listening, they aren't hard to anticipate and handle.

Also zoomers complaining about Battlelord Sentries are absolutely pathetic. You can literally shrink them and step on them.

[Anonymous No.5547097]

>>5546685
the way you worded that makes it sound like you were directing it at me OP, I know you mean you as in a general group of zoomers, might help to use they though. I dindu nuffin wrong. I don't know how these zoomies cant do it though, I got it for ps4 and 100% it with a controller and these kids cant even handle a couple of battlelords lol

[Anonymous No.5547274]

>>5546804
>Since when is anime FPS even a thing?
It was just a silly joke buddy, don't stress it.
>>5547097
No, you're right. I meant it in general... Your OP didn't even address this kind of stuff anyway; on an entirely different note, how the fuck do you even play DN3D on PS4? Feels like an utter pain in the ass.

[Anonymous No.5547279]

>>5542974
Just spam the kick button when you're near their zone/eggs and you will avoid even seeing them lil fuckers.

[Anonymous No.5547292]

>>5547274
old shooters with autoaim are easy enough with a controller. I played a lot of duke nukem 64 back in the day too, of course the pc version is the best but I wanted to play 20th anniversary with my buddy. I could beat these zoomies with a controller and them on kb+m im sure haha

[Anonymous No.5547375]

>>5547292
Fair enough... It's a shame World Tour doesn't include the addons, especially Caribbean

[Anonymous No.5547421]

>>5547375
yeah I own megaton already on steam thankfully.

[Anonymous No.5548008]

>>5547279
Now try that in v1.3D

[Anonymous No.5548325]

>>5540223
It generally lacks the level of interactivity/detail that made Duke iconic, and a couple of the maps aren't all that stellar, but overall I really like it! Probably helps that I'm a sucker for dark and moody sci-fi schlock

[Anonymous No.5548328]

>>5548325
>It generally lacks the level of interactivity/detail that made Duke iconic

It certainly has less stuff like pool table, strippers... but then again, how much of that do ep3 and 4 have?

Meanwhile ep2 is the one with the most cool structures and effects like generators, moving sectors

[Anonymous No.5548347]

>>5548328
Yeah when you get down to it most of the interactive gimmick stuff is pretty much frontloaded into EP1 in order to help sell the game, but I still feel that the more urban and grounded environments are a big part of what made Duke stand out. EP2 is fucking great for the most part, but a dark and moody starbase isn't exactly inspired since the genre effectively started off with that already in Doom.

[Anonymous No.5548357]

Dark Side is the best map for sure.

[Anonymous No.5548365]

Too many slimers, slimers terrify the fuck out of me and I don't know why, the moment I hear the sound of one I have to close the game

[Anonymous No.5549721]

>>5541137
doom builder 2 is idiot-proof compared to the original build and mapster tools

[Anonymous No.5549953]

>>5549721
can someone please do that to mapster ffs

[Anonymous No.5550314]

i like duke nukem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wnl6A39pJE

[Anonymous No.5550545]

>>5540223
So I just beat this game and Life's a Beach for the first time. LA Meltdown, Shrapnel City, and Life's a Beach are god tier. Thoughts on Nuclear Winter? I've heard bad things but it seems like something I'd actually want to play around Christmas time.

[Anonymous No.5550956]

>>5540223
This was the best Duke stage.

[Anonymous No.5550981]

>>5549721
That explains a lot

[Anonymous No.5550990]

>>5549953
idiots wouldn't make good duke maps

[Anonymous No.5551082]

>>5540223
How the hell did they never top Duke Nukem 3D? They created damn near perfection with the game and then just didn't realize how to follow it up? It is crazy. We need Duke Nukem to be revived in the way Doom was. In fact Duke would be even better since he is a better character than Doom Slayer ever will be.

[Anonymous No.5551096]

>>5551082
Doom Slayer is pretty based tbqh.

[Anonymous No.5551102]

>>5551082
>How the hell did they never top Duke Nukem 3D?

That's what Bombshell was supposed to be.

probably a good thing they lost the right to call it Duke

[Anonymous No.5551368]

>>5551082
I'm sure Duke will be fine as long as some retarded faggot doesn't own the rights to him.......

[BORIS No.5551448]

>>5549953
You need to man up. BUILD is easy. Even was back in DOS days. Making Doom maps is like babby stuff compared.

[Anonymous No.5551472]

>>5550545
Fuck everyone else, I liked it. Maybe it's not god tier, not even high tier, but it's definitely up there on the expansions list imo. Way better than Duke Assault anyway.

[Anonymous No.5551481]

>>5540223
Are there any archives for adult pc/tcs? I vaguely remember one with Lara Croft in a jail cell or something. I wish I saved all that stuff.

[Anonymous No.5551493]

How does he do it, /vr/? Does Duke the Hopak(that Russian squat dance) or does he skip around on his enormous dick?

[Anonymous No.5551529]

>>5551493
Wasn't there a way to spawn yet another foot on the higher section of the screen?

[Anonymous No.5552457]

>>5551082
Duke 3D wasn't perfection. It was a unique mix of mostly nice things that happened to hit a really sweet spot with the audience at the time it was released.
And there was never a proper sequel to it because Duke's success was kind of a lucky strike and the guys at 3D Realms didn't have what it took to pull it off again.
Also, Duke was a product of its time. The story, characters and humour were good for the mid nineties but it wouldn't fly nowadays. And I would rather never see another piece of media featuring Duke than see him changed to fit the demands of the current social narrative.

[Anonymous No.5552525]

>>5540223
only episode worth playing is the first one, change my mind

[Anonymous No.5552538]

>>5550545
It's crap. Ugly enemies & textures, and bad level design besides the LA Meltdown levels they reused (with minor changes). Try Duke It Out In DC first.

[Anonymous No.5552568]

Urea 51 is kino. Kino!

Not really.

[Anonymous No.5552623]

>>5552568
>kino

[Anonymous No.5552693]

>>5551493

[Anonymous No.5552694]

>>5552693
wow that's some T1000 nano magic right there

[Anonymous No.5552797]

>>5551448
the mapping part is easy the controls part is annoying actually and i think the duke nukem community would benefit if it was more approachable

[Anonymous No.5552852]

>>5531979
>Wavetravis
Hooker you keep saying that but it'll never make it true. Never been shy about crediting Robert with the high quality boosts he gave Market Melee, Top Secret, etc.

Wavemistress was a reference kludge of Wheel of Time, mimicry of some early SiN screenshots, John Anderson's 3DR application, Bank Roll gears, and Tier Drops via an exercise in building something that had to be worked on apart and only stitched together for testing and final delivery because of excessive ror.

[Anonymous No.5553096]

>>5552852
Top Secret shows you were perfectly aware of Travis' usermaps. Two usermaps in question are Beta One and Anselm, both feature an underside the presense of which isn't immediately apparent (optional burnt out armory in Beta One, mandatory cave system in Anselm, aesthetically Wavemistress is closer to Beta One, but red key being mandatory is more Anselm-like). Moreover, Caribbean's level 1 features a secret behind a door barricaded with the sofa, passing before which several times prior during normal level progression, with that door being unopenable, serves as a tease. That setup is very similar to how you emerge out of the technical part of the ship (red keycard related) back into the public (blue keycard related) part of the ship, having already acquired red keycard, through the previously unopenable door you have previously passed by several times over during the normal level progression. Technical zone of the level is also balanced in a noticeably different way, than public zone is. Lastly, the keycard locks setup before the level exit room is quite peculiar. Red lock only becomes visible and accessible after you enter the blue keycard for no apparent reason, other than, possibly, catching the player offguard (what? another key? but where, I've been through the entire public area only of the ship?!).

So there, two oddities, exit locks sequencing and the technical zone exit you pass several times by. Would be glad to hear which exactly references to Wheel of Time are those.

[Anonymous No.5553123]

the sound balancing in duke nukem 3D is so horrible.

[Anonymous No.5553135]

>>5553096
Not to mention that aforementioned setup in Carib's level1, in itself, originates from Beta One, which hinted upon THERE BEING SOMETHING not only through unopenable doors you pass by, but also through lapse in numbering of tram stations, as well as, IIRC, evidence of there being broken cameras somewhere (you get white noise on the camera feed monitor).

[Anonymous No.5553380]

>>5552538
I finished Nuclear Winter yesterday. I didn't hate it except for Santa's Corporate HQ, but it was the worst of what I played. There's a part where you have to blow up a specific column in the level to reach a key. I had already fired a rocket at it, fucking twice, to no avail. So I ended up wandering the level for a good half hour. I never want to hear Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer ever again. Aside from that one specific annoyance I didn't think the level design was actually bad. Simple maybe, but not bad. The Doom section caught me off guard. I kind of liked the enemies. Though you're right they're ugly, especially the elves, exploding the shit out of snowmen is fun, and the standard Assault Troopers and Pig Cops all Christmas'd out is charming. I dont think it's as bad as everything I've heard about it but I get why it has the reputation it does when there's already a bunch of quality Duke.

[Anonymous No.5553683]

>>5551493
why was this ever even an option
one boot was enough

[Anonymous No.5553705]

>>5553683
They wanted a quick melee attack, but maybe didn't think it through or ran out of time. I think the eduke32 port fixes this?!

[Anonymous No.5553714]

>>5553683
It was clearly an unintented behavior, otherwise it wouldn't have been fixed after the first registered release. Two boots are better than one if you run really low on ammo. It was a good way to reward ingenuity.

[Anonymous No.5553749]

>>5553705
It was fixed after I believe the first expansion. Thing is the original quick kick lowered the weapon you were holding and then replaced it with the same kick you do with no weapon, which wasn't as quick as the name suggested. It was then changed for the first commercial release with a side extra hit by inverting the sprite, which didn't disrupt the weapon you were already holding. This change in design created the scenario for the double kick, and since it seems like a pretty late addition, it probably didn't receive the proper amount of testing.

[Anonymous No.5553773]

>>5553683
Its silly, but I like it.
You have two feet, may as well use them both.

[Anonymous No.5553873]

>>5553123
Explain

Also what are the best fan created levels or mega wads to play /vr/? This thread has made me want to play more Duke.

[Anonymous No.5553883]

>>5553873
I was entertaining an idea of trying to make a few maps, an entire campaign for that matter.
Probably will never come true, but I want to believe someday I will manage to do something productive.

[Anonymous No.5553884]

>>5553123
>being a contrarian on that Mongolian underwater basket-weaving forum

[Anonymous No.5553917]

>>5553873
DNF 2013 and Duke Hard are pretty good.

[Anonymous No.5554478]

>>5543638
Nah, just shrink ray them lol.

[Anonymous No.5554916]

>>5553096
>Top Secret... Travis' usermaps.
He and I thought it would be amusing if the teleporter took the player to one of his maps. Robert built the time machine along with a nice lighting pass across my portion of the map. I've never legit played through the Aztec portion of Top Secret to this day. Nor any of his pre-Sunstorm maps. I recommended him to Tony on DC because his quality was obvious even if I didn't personally enjoy traversing the pre-Sunstorm maps.

>Beta One and Anselm, both feature an underside the presense of which isn't immediately apparent
Cruise ship with cargo and engine areas, Duke map that traverses multiple settings plausible within the theme, high contrast transitions, player arcs of light to dark back to light. Uncanny. Or common level/story patterns.

>aesthetically Wavemistress is closer to Beta One
Sure. They both have swimming pools. And not made of stone.

>So there, two oddities, exit locks sequencing and the technical zone exit you pass several times by.
Standard design patterns of showing things then returning later and contrasting moments within a map. In that era of level design in particular it was poor form not to tease somewhere you needed to unlock, find a path to, or come out of later. Looping back around within themselves in interesting ways was part of the craftsmanship.

>Red lock only after you enter the blue keycard
Didn't want to do the same thing as the Alien Remains door while able to pick up the cards in any order. It was a lazy setup though.

>Would be glad to hear which exactly references to Wheel of Time are those.
The name.

You can pareidolia the maps all you like but like Alien Remains and Oilrig for SiN... WM was made in permaheadphone isolation for a couple weeks of Deep Dance mixes and emerging with a monster. Robert and I gave feedback and learned things from each other, but otherwise enjoy very different things in maps and have opposing goals when we set out to make them.

[Anonymous No.5555049]

>>5551493
>>5553683
>>5553705
>>5553714
>>5553749
>>5553773
Never should have been "fixed".

[Anonymous No.5555245]

>>5554916
>I've never legit played through the Aztec portion of Top Secret to this day.

How is this even possible? Didn't you test the maps for balancing at the very least?

Also do you know if any of the maps in DC were started before the add-on was even supposed to be a thing? RT did a lot of maps for this, which would be the first hint for me. I'm thinking of Metro Mayhem specifically.

Not the guy you were responding to btw

[Anonymous No.5555249]

>>5554916
also, I know you only did some basic programming for it, the installer I suppose and perhaps the ending, but do you know anything about the cut basement of Gothic Library in Cryptic Passage? you wouldn't happen to own some old backups were it still existed would you

[Anonymous No.5555252]

>>5554916
Alright, coincidence it is then. In that case, let's say, that I moderately enjoyed Wavemistress in particular (as I did your Quake level Deadly Inspirations, by the way), however, conceptually, I find Travis' Beta One (well, this one is more or less on par concept-wise, but far simpler in implementation; also aesthetic similarity I was talking about is luxury), Anselm, Hoth and Mountain Path to be more high-conceptually interesting, even if the first two are very stale in regard to moment-to-moment combat.

As for Alien Remains, I have a very specific nitpick with it. The huge area with the drowned boat, that has shitload of nightvision googles and rebreathers, doesn't count as a secret, leads to a secret that just as well could not bother counting as a secret, and contains nothing noteworthy otherwise. I have wasted a shitload of time looking for a nob-existant key there. Twice. If it isn't an intentional red herring, it sure looks like one to me, ESPECIALLY in regard to googles/rebreathers baiting you to search underwater, despite nothing significant being there (both switch to access the aforementioned secret and the secret itself are situated above water). There was another reason I thought that area held a well-hidden key. When you use multiple locks at once, it implies that it's basically "let's EXPLORE11!1" kind of map, and, specifically, keys are situated in different directions in relation to locks. In Alien Remains, there is an immediate split between following a single path (that later splits into stairs down and stairs up - which lead to different keys) futher into base proper, and flushing down the tube into the area with the drowned boat. However, boat area contains nothing mandatory, and for both keys you actually need to follow the same direction for quite a bit. That is highly non-intuitive and misleading for that sort of a map. And I gotta say, that I don't enjoy my time being wasted like that, regardless of whether intentionally or not.

[Anonymous No.5555259]

>>5554478
If I am not mistaken, you don't get a shrinker on this level, however, amusingly, there is some shrinker ammo there. Anyway, if you are pistolstarting, shrinking them doesn't seem to be an option.

[Anonymous No.5555265]

>>5555252
Always been pretty obvious to me that it's a secret place. It's the typical Doom-inspired "you can see it and it looks unreachable, then it's a secret place" that RT was a master of, and I wouldn't be surprised if this one was his idea.

I would however have appreciated a B-exit once you're at the top and end of it, in the room with the Octobrains, have an exit there somehow instead of having to backtrack all the way through the tiny pipe.

>and, specifically, keys are situated in different directions in relation to locks.

Says who and like what? And no Wavemistress is not an example of that. In Wavemistress only one keypad is seen at first.

Anyway, the map makes it clear you need to find a way to unlock the keys. It has to be 1 unlock per key because otherwise, why would there even be 2 keys.
Then, there is one mandatory path you open. A bit further, literaly one corridor afterwards, that path branches into two.

It's not rocket science. Your confusion comes from the secret place and nothing else, as if having a tiny near invisible crack and going down the smallest pipe possible wasn't enough of a hint. Anyway, I guess that ideally it should be marked as a secret place as soon as you enter the pipe; but the thing you don't know and the reason why it is not and only the room overwater is marked as such, is because overwater and underwater sectors can not be marked as a secret in Duke.

[Anonymous No.5555269]

>>5555252
I'll elaborate. First time I played Alien Remains, I followed the main path, then took stairs down (while passing by stairs up) thus eventually getting to the corresponding key. While I initially noticed passing stairs, they were situated in a part of the level with a plenty of same-looking corridor, some of which you could even blow up a bit. So, while those stairs registered as existing there, they didn't register as anything special, significant, leading to somewhere I haven't. Maybe even I got them mixed up with some other similar looking stairs up.
Anyway, getting one of the keys from tge staira down portion, I then backtracked to the locks, and then followed the pipe, assuming the second key could be in a different direction from the locks. ENTER RED HERRING.
The second time around I did exactly the same, except, except I actually looked it up on gamefaqs as to how I was actually meant to progress. Those stairs sure do blend in quite well into tge overall visual and encounter monotony of that part of the level.

[Anonymous No.5555273]

>>5555265
Come on, "collect X of Y, lying SOMEWHERE on the level in any order" is the commonest possible RPG/dungeoncrawling-related trope, always meaning "explore the WHOLE dungeon, Every Fucking Nook And Cranny". Of course, the keys amounting to just two, takes it a bit to the extreme, but, you know, it still can absolutely be perceived as the same thing.

[Anonymous No.5555279]

>>5555265
You could make the pipe thick-walled, and count its "walls" (well, the part around the hole from explosion) themselves as being secret. You traverse those to get into the pipe - you get the notification of it being secret.

[Anonymous No.5555282]

>>5555279
In other words, couldn't the edges of the hole in the pipe actually be sectors, and thus, not being either underwater or overwater, marked as secret?

[Anonymous No.5555393]

>>5555245
>testing DC
For DC I was still full time at university originally hired to write the DC installer and help Tony coordinate the project. Top Secret was just a fun bonus and Robert was point man for level design so if he was happy I was happy (same for Cryptic, just one bloodbath map). It wasn't until Carib and WD that level design became a primary priority (and stopped halfway through DNF).
>maps started before the add-on
Not sure. Part of me thinks I remember RT had some in progress stuff he adapted to the DC theme, but I'm not sure if I've just seen you speculate on that enough times that I'm making false memories now.
>know anything about Cryptic stuff
Nope.

>>5555252
Don't mind stuff being disliked or other stuff preferred at all, just like filling in the context for that stuff got made where I can.

>>5555252
>>5555265
>Kobayashi arena
Having the secret room up above drop back down into the room with the pipe you left from would definitely have been the right thing to do.

>>5555282
That would have given the credit too soon. The space exists to be pretty from the elevator and let the player visit the Kobayashi boat. The secret up above is to give some sort of token for exploring vs leaving it unexplorable.

[Anonymous No.5555395]

>>5555279
>>5555282
That wouldn't work as well as you think it would

[Anonymous No.5555456]

>>5548347
The creepy space theme from Ep2 fits right in with the creepy alien enemies and crazy sci-fi guns. While the urban maps feel kinda off IMO.
Of course it worked out. But I wish episodes 1 and 3 had expanded more on the urban dystopia theme and had a different set of villains, enemies and weapons to reflect it.

[Anonymous No.5555539]

>>5540251
This. Nothing killed my joy more then hearing that 'vroooom' noise. Just an awful enemy.

[Anonymous No.5555553]

>>5555539
Drones are ok. Just stop being bad.

[Anonymous No.5555572]

>>5553096
Everything related to blue key conforms to expectations, everything related to red key subverts them.

[Anonymous No.5555593]

>>5540223
I've always far preferred Lunar Apocalypse over Shrapnel City.

[Anonymous No.5555595]

>>5544382
I love ABs levels in it, but it's definitely the least consistent episode.

[Anonymous No.5555612]

>>5555539
You suck.

[Anonymous No.5556418]

>>5555456
Duke is obviously inspired by scifi b-movies in part, so having aliens running amok in urban locales is more than fitting.

[Anonymous No.5557549]

>>5555539
stop using the shotgun retard

[Anonymous No.5557557]

>>5555539
Protector Drones in Ep4 are worse.