/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.5515273]

I realize this is the last board to graphicsfag on, but couldn't they have done a bit better? This was a highly anticipated entry in a very popular series in a very popular genre, and the result looks more like an early Playstation game. Chrono Cross and Final Fantasy IX, which came around at the same time, blow it out of the water graphically. The interfaces come off as strikingly shoddy as well. What was up with this game?

[Anonymous No.5515305]

>>5515273
>million hours of pure content
>why wasn’t it as graphicsfaggy as games 1/3rd it’s size
We just don’t know

[Anonymous No.5515341]

DQ doesn't need 'good' graphics.

[Anonymous No.5515348]

>>5515273
Why don't you just play the definitive version?

[Anonymous No.5515349]

>>5515273
You'd be surprised. Fights over graphics are a solid 70% of what gets talked about here. Music is another 25%. No one talks about actual gameplay.

[Anonymous No.5516050]

>>5515348
Nice joke.

[Anonymous No.5516260]

>>5515273
DQ was rarely about graphics.
>>5515348
GTFO

[Anonymous No.5516263]

Dragon Quest games deliberately eschewed from conventional JRPG norms because that genre was already chock full of Final Fantasy copycats. It allowed them to build rich worlds full of the love and attention to detail missing from its contemporaries.

Besides, why would they change a winning formula anyway? Those games sell hard on Japan despite the minimal presentation and has its niche following abroad too.

[Anonymous No.5516269]

>>5516263
I'm ashamed to be a DQ fan because the modern localizations are so disgusting and that's what people think about when they think of DQ.

[Anonymous No.5516274]

>>5516050
What about that is funny?

[Anonymous No.5516287]

>>5516269
I dunnae what yur talkin' boot laddie, cor.

[Anonymous No.5516359]

>>5516274
In the 3ds version they simplified/shortened the intro. People like to sperg about it literally ruining the game.

[Anonymous No.5516458]

>>5516359
That's what passes for a joke on vr these days?

[Anonymous No.5516505]

>>5516458
You also forget on here it’s OLD = GOOD / NEW = BAD regarding everything. Even ports and remakes that are undeniably better.

[Anonymous No.5516507]

>>5516505
> Even ports and remakes that are undeniably better
the localization script for DQ4 is pretty damn offensive though even if its not worth complaining about in 5/6's remake

[Anonymous No.5516546]

>>5516507
>offensive
Maybe if you're illiterate and also a bitch.

[Anonymous No.5516554]

>>5516546
because I am just supposed to automatically know which of the 6 different text accents the localizers are using at a first glance right?

[Anonymous No.5516591]

>>5516269
Jesus I hate people like you. I wish you'd just die

[Anonymous No.5516605]

>>5516505
There isn't a SINGLE DQ remake that is better than the original. And I played all the fucking remakes first.

[Anonymous No.5516771]

>>5516605
not even the Snes remakes of 1/2 and 3?

[Anonymous No.5516902]

>>5516274
>>5516359
>>5516505

I don't think the 3DS version is bad but they did change the flow of the game in a substantial way that people tend to downplay. Not just the intro. On screen enemies plus giving you a map on the second screen of each dungeon in the 3DS version makes dungeon crawling less tense because there are really no surprises. And while the fragment tracker can save you some headaches, the old method of finding the fragments was very old school Dragon Quest in that you had to just explore and talk to people and fuck around. Not to mention the job system was changed.

[Anonymous No.5516963]

>>5516605
So the best version of 1 is the original famicom version? I dare you to back that up.

[Anonymous No.5516997]

>>5516902
They turned a 100 hour game into 75 hour game by shaving off almost entirely extraneous bullshit. I'll concede that the map does ruin some of the labyrinth floors in dungeons though. However the fragment searching was always garbage where you just had to backtrack everywhere. NPCs almost never gave hints about where they were.

Also the changes to the job system were good in my opinion.

[Anonymous No.5517137]

I wish all the DQ games looked like 7. Those remakes on the DS that reuse the 7 graphics are just perfect.

[Anonymous No.5517152]

>>5516997
Not against the 3DS remake at all I think it was the right move the trim the game down a bit and add quality of life changes. And job system changes I'm mostly cool with but I go back and forth a bit.

I think I would have preferred for there to have been tweaks but to lean a bit more towards the older design. If that makes sense. As in, make the tracking down of the fragments more straightforward - have NPCs give hints and make them harder to miss. Things like that.

But my main point was just to point out that there are some differences between the two versions that aren't simple upgrades, and that if you're the kind of person who posts on this board you might appreciate aspects of the original version.

[Anonymous No.5517189]

>>5517152
The original is definitely a different beast in a lot of ways. It has that "where the fuck do I go" quality that some older titles have. Which can be a lot of fun.

[Anonymous No.5517292]

>>5516591
Same to you, FUCKO!!

[Anonymous No.5517303]

>>5515273
>Games built with random encounters because their origin was Wizardry
>Newer titles put roaming enemies that you can dodge even without using the run button

I miss a good dq

[Anonymous No.5517308]

>>5516902
Sorry man but having to talk to every fucking NPC in hopes of finding a fucking fragment is stupid. I lost 5 hours because one of the fragments was held by an NPC that wasn't even important. There is no such thing as tension in fucking DQVII besides some bosses.

[Anonymous No.5517559]

>>5517303
You can't even avoid encounters in the majority of dungeons because the damn hallways are so narrow. Try playing the game instead of crying on a Burmese basket weaving forum first.

[Anonymous No.5517589]

>>5516554
No? Have you tried just READING them, instead of throwing a tantrum the moment you experience the slightest bit of difficulty in having to comprehend nonstandard text?
You're pathetic.

[Anonymous No.5517596]

>>5517308
>having to talk to every fucking NPC in hopes of finding a fucking fragment is stupid.
Is talking to all NPCs not something you just do in jrpgs? Especially DQ games, maybe other jrpgs don't require it as much anymore but a substantial part of every DQ is just talking. It was necessary to talk to every NPC in the earlier games too if you wanted to know where the fuck to go. (that aspect seemed to die down in later installments but it's still present to a degree)

[Anonymous No.5517601]

>>5517596
Generally I might talk to most NPCs once unless they -seem- important. I played and finished DQV without having talked to every single NPC more than once.

[Anonymous No.5517607]

>>5517601
I'm playing through 7 right now and so far it's always been obvious to me when I should talk to NPCs. When I first arrive at a town (obviously), after I've solved the town's certain crisis, and whenever I go visit the same town in the real world. I don't believe I've missed any shards yet. Did this not become apparent to you at any point?
I mean, since I haven't finished the game I can't speak with 100% certainty, but this doesn't really seem like a problem with the game to me.

[Anonymous No.5517727]

>>5517308
Isn't talking to all the NPCs after every major event the WHOLE point of DQ and DQ7 in particular? How the hell could you miss shards during your first playthrough if you are supposed to WANT to talk to everyone?

[Anonymous No.5517743]

>>5517189
>It has that "where the fuck do I go" quality that some older titles have. Which can be a lot of fun.
I have spent over 5 hours of my life that i'm not getting back looking for where the white SeeD ship is in FFVIII. That is far and away the worst experience I have ever had with any game.

[Anonymous No.5517747]

>>5517727
If you are a teen that's great value for your money but I haven't got time for that.

[Anonymous No.5517764]

>>5517747
But it doesn't even take that much time. And if you're just doing it for shards you can button mash.
If you're that strapped for time why play an RPG in the first place?

[Anonymous No.5517776]

>>5516591
>>5517292
Based

[Anonymous No.5517793]

>>5516771
>>5516963
GBC 1-3 say hi.

[Anonymous No.5517821]

>>5517308
I get your point of view but my perspective is that "talking to NPCs" is a major gameplay element of Dragon Quest and so I talk to everyone. And so I don't think it's unreasonable for some main story elements to be revealed this way. You had to do that to advance in the early DQs - and it could easily get out of hand considering the scope of DQ7's world. It was easier to talk to everyone when the worlds were smaller. But DQ7 even mitigates that by having the sealed island mechanic. It means you really only have to check in on NPCs in that town.
It's definitely not perfect and think could be improved but I don't think it's a bullshit mechanic.

As for tension, I was referring to having to watch your health and resources in dungeons. The random element of not knowing what enemy would attack you and when was something you had to work and plan around in the PSX version and other DQs with random encounters.
Sometimes you have to take a couple passes at a dungeon before you get through it because you didn't have enough resources. If you wanted to get every chest in the dungeon you would have to remember what paths lead where. If you have a map like in the 3DS version you can surmise that the dead ends are the areas where the chests are and if you want to skip them you can make a beeline to the next floor. It also makes the Thief skills like snoop less useful, because if you pop down to a floor and you see it's small and just has a couple dead ends you can guess there's chests there without having to risk possibly encountering monsters that would fuck up your party. This is what I mean by tension.

[Anonymous No.5518046]

>>5516605
>He didn't pick the best wife in V
Sad!

[Anonymous No.5518096]

>>5515273
Chrono Trigger, from 1995 on last gen hardware, blows it out of the water. Hell, it blows many Playstation RPGs out of the water, because graphics generally weren't much of a concern for most devs in the genre.

[Anonymous No.5518212]

>>5515273
It sold more than FF7 in Japan so it succeeded.

[Anonymous No.5518435]

>>5517152
>>5516997
>>5516274
they STILL pozzed up the script with this gay shit

[Anonymous No.5518448]

>>5518435
>pozzed
Go outside you decrepit retard

[Anonymous No.5518645]

>>5518448
why is that acceptable in any way?

[Anonymous No.5518794]

>>5518435
>localization adds character to a game
>isn't identical, down to grammar, to original
AUTISM ENGAGED!! REEEEEE!!

[Anonymous No.5518909]

>>5518794
yes shoehorned accents are "character"

[Anonymous No.5519126]

>>5518909
Yes, from standard kingdoms one became a Scottish, one Russian, one French, that wasn't really french, but under some spell. that's character dummy.

[Anonymous No.5519736]

>>5519126
Does gutting 60% of the dialog because it would have been "too hard to add accents to all of it" also character to you, you fucking mongoloid?

[Anonymous No.5519738]

>>5519736
Is*

[Anonymous No.5520104]

>>5516359
>In the 3ds version they simplified/shortened the intro
You mean the intro that is several hours of literally running back and forth without even a single battle to test your skill? It's STILL bad in the 3DS version, it's less bad but it's shit with sugar instead of just shit. After playing it for six hours I traded it in for something else because it was just so mind-numbingly slow, and I'm no stranger to long RPGs.

[Anonymous No.5520438]

>>5519736
I appreciate the accents a lot more than party chat which just ends up ruining the pacing of the game unless you use it very sparingly. But I guess if party members repeating the same thing NPCs recently said with a question mark at the end really matters to you, I can see your point of view. Nice job moving those goal posts, by the way.

[Anonymous No.5520472]

>>5520104
So world-building in a game world that you're supposed to be spending several dozen hours in is bad?
Fuck you, this game clearly wasn't made for people like you. There's plenty of generic rpgs that rely on shitty gimmicks like waifu bait to attract your room temperature IQ and keep you playing.
>>5520438
When the fuck did I move any goal posts?
This isn't an argument, they gutted the game and destroyed the original intent of the script to put in some shitty accents that are barely legible at times.
Alena isn't russian, Ragnar isn't fucking scottish.

And sure party chat ruins the "pace of the game" if you're too much of a smooth brain to appreciate world-building and character interaction. No lets just have these sprites move in a straight line from meme accent to the next all the way until the end without muttering a single word, because anon here is a literal mongoloid and words that are spelled in a foreign way are amusing to him.

Since this is /vr/ both those posts are made by the same smoothbrain.
Fuck off.
Imagine being too retarded to play a fucking video game jesus.

[Anonymous No.5520507]

>>5520472
It's very sad to see someone frothing at the fingers over a completely incorrect assumption. I'm the second person you're replying to and I thoroughly enjoy 7, especially its opening.
You were originally complaining about accents not adding character, then flipped and said "WELL WHAT ABOUT PARTY CHAT?", that's where you moved the goal posts.

>No lets just have these sprites move in a straight line from meme accent to the next all the way until the end without muttering a single word, because anon here is a literal mongoloid and words that are spelled in a foreign way are amusing to him.
And you can't decipher the accents but love to have each member of your party repeat the current objective for you. Who are you trying to impress by conjuring up these embarrassing fantasies of you winning arguments against strawmen mongoloids?

[Anonymous No.5520518]

>>5520507
Because the party chat is the actual character of the game you idiot.
it got removed because of the accents.
I really have to spell this out for you?

[Anonymous No.5521056]

>>5517559
This.

[Anonymous No.5521273]

>>5518096
Chrono Trigger blows a lot of Playstation RPG's out of the water when it comes to graphics.
They just put so much effort in the visual presentation of that game.

[Anonymous No.5522432]

the localization and accents aren't bad because they are hard to read, but because they shit on the atmosphere of the original with their groan-inducing Mickey Mouse bullshit

[Anonymous No.5522475]

The accents are nowhere near as bad as the massive dialogue rewrites and PUN names for every character and town.

It really cheapens the story when everything is made into a fucking joke. How can fans of the series defend this shit?

[Anonymous No.5522581]

>>5521273
>Chrono Trigger blows a lot of Playstation RPG's out of the water when it comes to graphics.

That's highly debatable.

[Anonymous No.5522729]

>>5515273
just admit you judge and perceive visually and don't play shit.

[Anonymous No.5522741]

>>5515273
I love this game, but it's the most ugly DQ by far.

It's a shame that most people have only experienced some of the best games in the series as casualized DS remakes with rushed pacing, literal joke "translations" and DQ7's ugly graphics.

The Zenithia trilogy in particular is fantastic and each game looks very different from the rest, but most people ignore it in favor of these dumbed down remakes with the exact same graphics engine that doesn't even look good in the first place.

[Anonymous No.5523553]

Anyone else found this more emotional than any other part of the story?

The grandfather is the bald scholar dude you meet in the excavation site and leave in the past because he wants to stay there and study old cultures.

[Anonymous No.5523557]

>renaming the bag
Why is this a thing?

[Anonymous No.5523590]

>>5516260
>DQ was rarely about graphics.

The nes games were very strong on presentation, aside from the monster sprites the games looked better than the FF nes games.

It was only really V where they dropped the ball and made something that looked like an RPG maker template. Then they went full opposite of that with VI probably under the infulence of Enix working with Chrono Trigger and got Heartbeat to make something simular.

[Anonymous No.5523597]

>>5523590
6 looks and sounds beautiful. It's a shame that most people only played the ugly remake.

[Anonymous No.5523601]

>>5523590
I kind of like the graphics in V because they look just like the NES ones but more colorful. And the female characters have cute little noses when you look at them from the side. And NPCs move only their head to talk to you, leaving their body in the same position. It's quite charming.

[Anonymous No.5523628]

YOU FAGS THINK THE DS REWRITES WERE BAD?
BE GRATEFUL YOU DIDN'T HAD TO PLAY THE SPANISH VERSIONS, SINCE THESE CRANKED UP THE PUNS, ACCENTS AND SHIT UP TO ELEVEN!
I still laughed like crazy with the Argeninian cats and dogs, though
>"Este... ¡miau!"
>"¡Che, guau!"
>"¡La pucha, miau!"

[Anonymous No.5523713]

>>5523628
What is it with Spanish translations?

[Anonymous No.5523786]

>>5522741
I am playing the DS remake of IV, is it really that bad? How is it dumbed down? I love Dragon Quest with all my heart, how is it a bad game, I want to experience it to the fullest.

[Anonymous No.5523823]

>>5523786
The remake is not a bad game at all. In fact, it's the first game I played. It's just a bit too easy, which makes the quests feel like they go by too fast. And the upper screen kind of makes the dungeon design redudant because you can clearly see all the dead ends without even moving. The translation is hot garbage, barely better than your typical spoof romhack, but as long as you can take the game seriously...

I recommend playing the NES original at some point. It's still my favorite DQ game and one of the best JRPGs I've ever played, even though I played every single remake and original game in the series before it. DQ3 is also really good.

I have a soft spot for DQ2, especially the NES version, but I can see why many people hate it. I personally love everything about it, though.

The only game I'd say has aged poorly is the original DQ1. It's still fun and playable, but it's the only game in the series that actually requires grinding. The whole game is secretly a grind, but by the time you open the final dungeon and can't even get there without dying... a painful 1 hour grind awaits you. The game is basically over by that point, though.

[Anonymous No.5523828]

>>5523823
Despite its shortcomings, DQ1 is still a really comfy game. Even the original. None of these games is a nightmarish, unfair, buggy mess like some of the early FF games. That's what I like about this series.

[Anonymous No.5523831]

Why do people recommend DQ3 on GBC over SNES? Call me a graphicsfag but it's hard to ignore the spritework on the SNES version.

[Anonymous No.5523840]

>>5523831
I prefer the original version of every DQ despite having played the remakes first.

That said, DQ1 and DQ2 have really pretty GBC remakes and I really like them. The SNES versions look kind of ugly and sound like absolute ass compared to the originals.

The SNES remake of DQ3 is really beautiful, although I still prefer the NES version. I don't like how it uses the assets of the most recent DQ game (DQ6 in this case). I feel like it robs DQ6 of its identity while also making DQ3 look like a romhack of DQ6 rather than its own game. I have the same problem with most of the remakes, although that's not even the biggest problem with them.

Both DQ3 remakes are pretty good, but people recommend the GBC version because it has enemy medals you can collect to open a SECOND extra dungeon. It's not worth it, in my opinion. You'd have to play the postgame for over 20 hours to even get access to it, and by that point you'll probably be burned out on the game. The game also looks a bit ugly and the fast speed movement feels somehow wrong and uncomfortable with these small GBC sprites. You'd expect them to move at the same speed as the previous two remakes. But they had to keep the SNES movement speed because the GBC remake of DQ3 is basically a port of the SNES one.

I personally prefer the SNES remake, if I have to choose one of them. Although I kind of hate the personality system and prefer the simplicity of the original NES game.

[Anonymous No.5523841]

>>5523831
Because they're faggots, DQ3 SFC is a thing of beauty.

[Anonymous No.5523842]

>>5523831
The remakes add the ugly ass thief class.

The original has a female merchant with blue hair, so you can call her Bulma. I keep her for the whole game despite being inferior to the solder in almost everything.

[Anonymous No.5523846]

>>5523841
If you want beauty why not play DQ6? It looks even better. Seriously, it's one of the prettiest games on the Super Famicom. I hate what the remake did to it, it looks like garbage and ruined the dream-like atmosphere.

[Anonymous No.5523858]

>>5523823
I played DQ1-3 and playing DQ3 after 1+2 absolutely blew my mind, it rose right up to one of my favourite games, just hearing the overworld music gives me a high when remembering the adventure that I feel like I truly had when playing the game. I actually really liked DQ1, I went into it simply for "historical reasons" to see how JRPGs started and it was one of the most pleasant surprises I ever had in gaming. I have played many retro games obviously, but none have exceeded my expectations as much as DQ1. It's barebones and simple, but what was done with this simplicity fascinated me immensely. (I thought Zelda1 was good and I understand its historical value but still nowhere near as good as it's made out to be) I think I will play the original DQIV after the DS remake.

[Anonymous No.5523863]

>>5523858
What I love about DQ1 is that you are a single dude fighting monsters one on one. As it's tradition in the DQ series, huge fat creatures like mammals and dragons have a high chance of being affected by sleep spells, so you can just put one of those wolf enemies to sleep and run away with a 100% chance of success, making it really easy to get to certain towns early..

It's a small thing, but it makes the game more immersive.

[Anonymous No.5523870]

A weird but interesting thing about the NES era DQ games is that there is no resilience stat. Your "attack" stat is your natural strenght + the power of your weapon. Your "defense" stat is your natural resilience + the combined defense power of your helmet, armor and shield. But there is no resilience stat to be found in the stats screen.

Your resilience is a hidden stat that is always half of your speed. The faster you are, the more resistant you are. If you have 40 speed, your resilience is 20.

It's interesting that the stats work this way, because it means that soldiers (massive HP and strength, absolute garbage speed) are the shittiest resilience stat in the game. They have massive HP but they can't tank for shit. And that's where their great equipment options come in. Thanks to the great but expensie equipment they can wear, their "defense" is still formidable despite their absolutely miserable natural resilience that is HALF of their garbage speed stat. That's what makes them tanks.

Fighters/martial artists, on the other hand, have the best speed in the game and therefore the best natural resilience stat. But their HP is mediocre and they can barely equip shit, so their overall defense stat is pretty mediocre too. Their strength is slightly lower than that of a solder, but their critical hit chance increases with each level and by the second half of the game their critical hit chance is always 1/4, which is fantastic. Definitely my favorite class.

This applies to DQ4 too, since the characters there are basically DQ3 classes. Except Taloon who is a weird mix between a jester and a merchant and also an early version of the thief.

[Anonymous No.5524228]

>>5523870
This is about 60% correct see me after class.

[Anonymous No.5524317]

>>5523786
Please do not let other people influence your view of a game so easily. DS DQIV is perfectly fine, >>5523823 brings up some fair points about it being balanced differently and some of the dungeon exploration is cheapened by the additional screen. His complaint about the translation is completely retarded though, pretending like it's "spoof romhack"-tier means he either has little understanding of the work that would have went into making the script, or he's arguing in bad faith intentionally. Play a little of both NES and DS and see where your preference lies before continuing.

[Anonymous No.5524324]

>>5523597
SNES 6 has amazing presentation but I think the balance/difficulty is sorta fucked. I prefer DS for the gameplay, but it really sucks not having that sweet SNES soundtrack and the original graphics.

[Anonymous No.5524329]

>>5523840
>I don't like how it uses the assets of the most recent DQ game (DQ6 in this case).
It doesn't though? Look at a map of DQ3 SNES and compare it to one of DQ6 SNES. 3 is like a more perfected form of 6.

[Anonymous No.5524461]

>>5518435
Wait, did they seriously use faux cyrillic in the game? I don't care about exaggerated accents but faux cyrillic is a straight up crime against linguistics. If you know how to read cyrillic the text becomes absolutely incomprehensible.

[Anonymous No.5524970]

>>5524461
The best part?
IV PS1 will never get a translation because of this shit. I would have rathered they didn't localize it at all.

[Anonymous No.5525001]

>>5523713
That fuckup was epic, but because of the epic fallout the translation team had to endure, they did a much better job from that point onwards.
On the other side, 90's and early 00's Sega and Nintendo's localizations always were excellent.

[Anonymous No.5525013]

>>5523786
Dude, DQ IV DS made the original game 1000% better by simply making all characters manually controlled as opposed to the forced AI from the NES version.

[Anonymous No.5525173]

>>5523553
I have been playing half way through DQ7 and I am regretting not taking and screenshots because it has a couple of very memorable lines, from feels over thoughtful to hilarious, this is one of the best written jrpgs I have played