/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.5501464]

Where do I start with the SaGa series ?

[Anonymous No.5501537]

>>5501464
SaGa Frontier is where I started. Romancing SaGa 3 is probably good too though.

[Anonymous No.5502013]

SaGa Frontier or the Game Boy SaGa/Final Fantasy Legend games are great start points.

[Anonymous No.5502023]

The ones I'd say not to start on are the first Romancing SaGa and 2, and of course Unlimited

The rest are good to go. Even the DS remakes of SaGa 2 and 3

[Anonymous No.5502209]

As long as you go in with an open mind and some capacity for punishment, you can start with any game since they all do vastly different things starting from the SNES games, there's still a constant evolution in the series and a build up of the core mechanics, but each entry also has a lot of unique gimmicks or submechanics you won't find in other games.
Most people suggest to start with SaGa 2, Romancing SaGa 3 or the first Frontier and I agree with that, I don't suggest to being with Romancing SaGa 2, Unlimited or Minstrel Song due to being too mechanically dense and punishing for the average newcomer, Frontier 2 is also very different from the rest of the series as it's the most story focused game in the series, while the rest of the games are pretty archaic by now and/or substantially flawed.

I'd personally tell you to start with the GB games outside of 3, since they're short but contain the very basics, the DS remake of 2 is perhaps the best compromise if you want to learn the most of basic battle and build design on the variable model, the SaGa 3 DS remake is also the only version of SaGa 3 you should play, the original is more or less the black sheep of the series.

[Anonymous No.5504028]

If I want to play the GB games, do I play the US versions of the GB games or a remake of them?

[Anonymous No.5504218]

>>5504028
You can do whatever you want for 2 but I suggest the DS version of 3 because it's a complete overhaul (the original 3 was considered to ironically be an FF game with a coat of paint while the remake actually implements a whole bunch of mechanics that SaGa is known for)

[Anonymous No.5504248]

SaGa Frontier on PS1, then throw the rest of the franchise into the trash.

[Anonymous No.5504521]

>>5504028
The Wonderswan remaster of 1 is pretty much the definitive version, there's honestly no reason to play the original nowadays outside of being a purist, the remaster is essentially the same game but with better graphics and bugfixes.

The DS remake of 2 is, as usual, very competent and only adds to the original game while not removing anything, unlike the SaGa 1 remaster this is remake though, which means that it adds a lot more stuff that wasn't in the original game and also rebalances the existing content quite a bit while adding many new mechanics, a longer script, more music, a few more quests and some extra fanservice content like an Arena where you can fight powered up versions of story bosses.
Some people tend to dislike the more modern anime look too so there's that and the DS 3D capabilities aren't really any good (though the game does look a bit retro in its own low polu way), play the GB version and if it feels too archaic, jump straight to the DS remake.

SaGa 3 is a bit of a problem, the original GB game wasn't even a SaGa game technically since Kawazu didn't direct for some unknown reason and the new director basically turned it into a SaGa flavoured FF games, taking out many key gameplay elements like the no level approach and using bog standard RPG mechanics.
Kawazu personally fixed everything wrong with the DS remake of 3, giving the entire system a major overhaul and getting rid of a lot of dumb stuff, unlike the SaGa 2 remake which keeps all the original content of 2. This gives you a game that is radically different from the original one, and for the better since the DS remakes actually works like a SaGa game, it still keeps all the key mechanics from the original game but works on a completely different (and better) core ruleset, and just like the SaGa 2 remake also has plenty more mechanics, including pretty interest time travel ones that build on the ideas from the original game, which was pretty much exactly like Chrono Trigger.

[Anonymous No.5505235]

>>5504521
>The Wonderswan remaster of 1 is pretty much the definitive version, there's honestly no reason to play the original nowadays outside of being a purist, the remaster is essentially the same game but with better graphics and bugfixes.

One thing that I noticed when I emulated the Wonderswan remaster of 1 was that enemies attacked whatever character they wanted, whereas in Final Fantasy Legend 1 even the instruction manual tells you that your first character is considered to be the "front character" and he will get attacked more often.

My theory was that the emulation was fucking shit up.

[Anonymous No.5507002]

>>5504521
And why did they even bothered restricting your amount of hearts if you can just load game and undo it? Who the fuck would sit through grinding for another heart instead of wasting 10-20 minutes?

[Anonymous No.5507137]

>>5501464
Saga frontier and just stop there. It's really all you need to do know

[Anonymous No.5507197]

>>5507137
And even that's overrated by casuals because there's no penalty for losing.

[Anonymous No.5507437]

>>5507197
I mean you flat out game over straight to title screen if you lose in any SaGa game

that's pretty punishing if you forgot to save

[Anonymous No.5507442]

>>5507437
Which you never do because it's a casual baby game trash.

[Anonymous No.5507510]

>>5501464
The first in the series is great fun and requires very little investment, though it is Romancing Saga and onwards that bring the series' signature non-linear story progression. Specifically, start with the RS1 remake on the PS2, or wait for the remake of RS3.

[Anonymous No.5507551]

>>5507437
>responding to obvious shitposter
Come on man, hide and report.

[Anonymous No.5507603]

>>5507551
anon you have to say the right things or the children will never hear them

[Anonymous No.5507631]

>>5507437
>romancing saga 2

[Anonymous No.5507692]

>>5507603
Don't know about you, but I'd prefer having a good thread rather than worrying about (man)children.
/vr/ already went to the shitter, I would like at least SaGa threads to be spared, they're pretty much the only reason I come here anymore.

[Anonymous No.5507790]

>>5501464
Minstrel Song is the best starter

[Anonymous No.5507876]

>>5507692
then why don't you start acting righteously and being a dad instead complaining all the time?

[Anonymous No.5508692]

>can't have SaGa threads on /vr/ anymore because there's an autistic retard that comes into every single one of them to complain
I miss the old threads. Fuck everyone who mentioned these threads on /v/.

[Anonymous No.5508738]

>>5508692
>Someone says a thing.
>Now the whole thread is dedicated to how things were better in the past.

[Anonymous No.5508862]

Alright enough bitching, let's save this thread.
Since RS3 is coming SOON-ish post your:
>Favourite MCs
Harid, Katarina, Elen
>Favourite secondary characters
Robin, Boston, Nora, Snowman, Ward, Sharl, Muse, Zhi-Lin, Bai-Mei-Nyan, Undine
>Favourite quests
The Zweig Tournament
Robin's quest
The Nacht Sieger
The well treasure
The holy king trials
The holy king tower
Finding the Holy Grail
>Favorite bosses
Dream Demon
Nacht Sieger
Aunas
Arakes
Volcano+Undine Tag Team
>Favorite tracks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZayGp2wFPc&list=PLF5455663AF4F78FD&index=4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulyyG-v3M0I&list=PLF5455663AF4F78FD&index=10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqoZhVWnPvs&list=PLF5455663AF4F78FD&index=12
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUoGUkcKM9M&list=PLF5455663AF4F78FD&index=14
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Va124cwwD6I&list=PLF5455663AF4F78FD&index=22
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GN2T-Yw1Kdo&list=PLF5455663AF4F78FD&index=25
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2VlvNVSeQY&list=PLF5455663AF4F78FD&index=26
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87YnY1fTKt8&list=PLF5455663AF4F78FD&index=32
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPRC0SPus2k&list=PLF5455663AF4F78FD&index=38
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4e_2bfYuq0&list=PLF5455663AF4F78FD&index=50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBNFJiZCZs0&list=PLF5455663AF4F78FD&index=61

[Anonymous No.5508914]

3, get Yousei asap.

[Anonymous No.5509013]

>>5501464
the one you posted is and also Frontier for the PS1. Pick Asellus or Red as a first character but save either one of them for last.

the GB games are okay imo, but personally I never got into them very much for some reason.

[Anonymous No.5509467]

>>5501464
As others have said: SaGa 2, Romancing SaGa 3 and both Frontiers.

However, while I love it, SaGa Frontier 1 is just an incomplete game. It's more flawed than interesting if you play as the wrong characters. Sure the graphics are really neat, the music ties with RS3 as the best in the series, but only half of the scenarios are worth playing and feel complete. You may just wanna play as Red, Emelia, Asellus and the robot before calling it a day.

[Anonymous No.5509524]

>>5507551
>obvious shitpost
We've discussed the uselessness of LP for the last 5 threads and everyone agreed that there's no reason for you to take the L if LP are permanent and if LP get refilled when you sleep then why even have LP?

And you tag the factual criticism of your lovely game as "shitposting"? How cute and fitting for a blind fanboy.

[Anonymous No.5509527]

>>5508692
>someone hates what I like
>"waaah my threaaad"
Threads are for everyone, faggot, including people who criticize game mechanics.

[Anonymous No.5509530]

>>5509467
>SaGa Frontier 1 is just an incomplete game
Is there an interest in completing it in some remaster or are we talking about Xenogears disc 2 levels of incomplete?

[Anonymous No.5509603]

>>5509467
Lute route was the only forgettable one. Both Blue and Riki have hype as hell scenes in it.

[Anonymous No.5509617]

>>5509530
It's fine as it is. It's nothing you would miss in a normal playthrough without knowing about it.

[Anonymous No.5509747]

>>5509524
>We've discussed the uselessness of LP for the last 5 threads
So now you resort to completely make shit up?
It's an argument that came up in the last thread (which wasn't a 5 reply ones like the average thread) and even there there were mixed opinions, for the record, I was the one who started that whole argument to begin with, so I remember it well.
>And you tag the factual criticism
If "factual" criticism to you is that there's no supposed penalty for losing even by getting a game over screen, I don't know what to tell you.
If this was Scarlet Grace I'd agree, they were way too soft with that even though they amped up the average difficulty to make that up, but it's not really appliable to any other game in the series.
What is a game that has some appropriate penalty for losing? Because the only RPGs where you have an actual penalty for losing are roguelikes, since you can't reload savefiles and they force you to start over from the beginning in case of game overs, but SaGa games aren't roguelikes.
So either you come up with REAL criticism and some solid arguments this time around or you just stop pretending you're anything but the usual shitposter plaguing these threads.

Oh, and stick your blind fanboy thing up your ass while you're at it, I'm real tired of seeing this shit for every blathering moron who thinks their own opinion is anything but worthless.

[Anonymous No.5510395]

>>5509747
No, SaGa frontier has a hugely forgiving LP system compared to the likes of RS2 but RS2's LP being unforgiving makes people load game faster to avoid losing side characters.

Speaking of RS2, here's why you lose LP in the first place
>enter fight
>do what you always do
>enemies decide to focus your weakest or 2nd weakest character because fuck you
>your only option is to spam defend with the characters that have the lowest armor and pray

Amazing tactical gameplay!

>Because the only RPGs where you have an actual penalty for losing are roguelikes
Define "actual" because it seems your definition of actual is restricted to permadeath. "Roguelikes" are the only ones that have permadeath? Sounds like someone never played Fire Emblem. Busy sucking that Kawazu dick? And no, you fucking retard. I'm not talking about permadeath. I'm talking about reasons to stick around and pay 10 thousand gold for an extra heart instead of reloading the game. It's a gimmick that's just there for the sake of producing anxiety over nothing.

Your average SF1 character has 8+ LP. Who the fuck dies over 8 times in one trip? What is this, a penalty for mouth breathers?

[Anonymous No.5510405]

>>5509747
No, SaGa frontier has a hugely forgiving LP system compared to the likes of RS2 but RS2's LP being unforgiving makes people load game faster to avoid losing side characters.

Speaking of RS2, here's why you lose LP in the first place
>enter fight
>do what you always do
>enemies decide to focus your weakest or 2nd weakest character because fuck you
>your only option is to spam defend with the characters that have the lowest armor and pray

Amazing tactical gameplay!

>Because the only RPGs where you have an actual penalty for losing are roguelikes
Define "actual" because it seems your definition of actual is restricted to permadeath. "Roguelikes" are the only ones that have permadeath? Sounds like someone never played Fire Emblem. Busy sucking that Kawazu dick? And no, you fucking retard. I'm not talking about permadeath. I'm talking about reasons to stick around and pay 10 thousand gold for an extra heart instead of reloading the game. It's a gimmick that's just there for the sake of producing anxiety over nothing.

Your average SF1 character has 8+ LP. Who the fuck dies over 8 times in one trip? What is this, a penalty for mouth breathers?

Only reason why throwing you back to the title screen would amount to anything is if I couldn't quick save with a shortcut combo. But Kawazu knows how the game fluctuates in randomness and spikes so in the 7th day of creation he said "let there be shortcut" and called it a day.

>I'm real tired of seeing this shit for every blathering moron who thinks their own opinion is anything but worthless.

Only it's far from worthless and you've still haven't procured anything that proves me wrong. You could remove the LP system and the games would play the same for everyone but monkeys.

[Anonymous No.5510419]

>>5510405
>>your only option is to spam defend with the characters that have the lowest armor and pray
You're intentionally ignoring how formations will affect the odds of certain positions being targetting, and can give defense bonuses.

[Anonymous No.5510432]

>>5510405
heh just use Rapid Stream scrub

[Anonymous No.5510485]

>>5510405
>LP system
>Frontier
>"unforgiving"
>in a game where LP points rarely run out if ever when you can regain them through resting

congratulations, you outed yourself as a retard that actually loses characters in Frontier

[Anonymous No.5510598]

>>5509530
Lute, Blue, and Riki's quests in SaGa 1 are incomplete. They plop you in the middle of the gameworld with no explanation of how anything works, which can be frustrating, especially if you picked Riki (who is garbage, and monsters in general are weak). Pick one of the other four characters and you'll have some decent tutorial story sequences before you reach the more confusing non-linear parts.

But don't pick T260G first; mecs are much different than humans that make up most of the cast, plus his final boss is probably the hardest of the seven. Pick Asellus, Red, or Emelia for your first and probably second and third scenarios; theirs are complete and rad. No shame in using GameFAQs to read up on the character choices or how other stuff works, either.

[Anonymous No.5510659]

>>5510405
>>your only option is to spam defend with the characters that have the lowest armor and pray
No, you have many options, from formations to spells or just simply blitzing things before they can do anything, let alone LP potions if things get too dire, but as you get better and better at the game you'll need them less and less since you'll be able to prevent danger altogether.
>Amazing tactical gameplay!
So you're complaining you cannot absolutely dominate everything and there's always a degree risk involved, sounds like a good RPG and not a rps game to me.
Weren't you complaining that these games were too forgiving though? Seems to me they aren't if you're that butthurt about losing LP and incurring into character death.
>Sounds like someone never played Fire Emblem.
So you're not only that dishonest to compare a roguelike (One character, you die, restart from the beginning) to FE (Multiple character, the MC or party member/npc in the rare special mission of the week dies, you restart from your save file), you're pretending fucking FE, one of the most braindead SRPG series to date is even remotely on the same level of something like Angband or Nethack.
SaGa games also have a reset if your MC incurs into LP death, SMT also have a reset if your MC dies, on top of the fact that it's also easy to get a full wipe in both of these, but apparently, FE is better because there's also functional permadeath in there despite the vastly easier general difficulty.
Though it's funny you complain about RS2 enemies ganking on a character but do not complain about FE's notorious RNG.
>It's a gimmick that's just there for the sake of producing anxiety over nothing.
But character death in FE isn't?
You do know 90% of the things that make games difficult are literally made to induce anxiety over nothing?
If your argument is that you can prevent any single loss by reloading then pretty much no game is immune to this absurd claim, especially RPGs
>>>

[Anonymous No.5510661]

>>5510659
Suddenly, Wizardry IV is piss easy because why bother going back to a pentacle to restock your party when you can just reload? Why pursuing a thief that stole your key item when you can reload? I guess anyone who pretends that game isn't easy as fuck is sucking Greenberg and Woodhead's cocks, fucking fanboys, amirite?
Suddenly, XCOM or Jagged Alliance 2 are piss easy because why dealing with the fact that you lost a unit or that the battle took a wrong turn when you can just reload? Damn Sirtech and WRPG cocksuckers truly don't know about actually difficult games like Fire Emblem after all.

You're pretty much the kind of guy that gets fucked up in a fight and pretends that he didn't lose as long as you got out of that alive.
>Who the fuck dies over 8 times in one trip?
Beginners, or Riki in Virgil's lava slime rape dungeon.
I love how you're also pretending that party wipes aren't a thing and are so fixated on LP death, LP in Frontier might be lax in most cases but still forces you to fight actively compared to other RPGs where there's no penalty from having a KOd character at all, but of course, let's ignore that because you're either that stupid to not realize this simple mechanical fact or are simply too dishonest to consider something this simple because it's another thing that dismantle your excuse of an argument.
>Only reason why throwing you back to the title screen would amount to anything is if I couldn't quick save with a shortcut combo
So again, losing isn't losing because you can reload?
Do you also pretend you're a girl because you wear a skirt and take dicks up your ass?
>You could remove the LP system and the games would play the same for everyone but monkeys.
I guess I'm talking to a monkey then since you just complained about losing LP in the very same post.
I guess it's also bad for games to have a learning curve and be actually manipulable.
I'm still waiting for an example of a supposedly punishing RPG, moron.

[Anonymous No.5510674]

>>5510598
>Argues Riki and Blue quests are incomplete
>Pretends Asellus' quest of all thing is complete when it's the scenario with most cut content, most of it which is still on the disk
Peak shitposting.

[Anonymous No.5510817]

>>5510405
holy shit has anyone ever seen a brainlet have such a hilarious meltdown in a saga thread before

[Anonymous No.5510836]

You're playing Red's route and you want to have all your party members be IRPO. But you can only have 4 people with Red so you gotta neglect one of the five IRPO dudes. Who is your lineup?
I like Red, Doll, Fuse, Rabbit, and Silence. I feel obligated to use Doll and Rabbit because I'm pretty sure you can't get them in other routes. And monsters are gay so fuck Cotton.

I suppose another choice is to have one group just be Red, always transforming into Alkaiser, and the second group be all five IRPO cops.

[Anonymous No.5511150]

>>5510836
>But you can only have 4 people with Red
You can have multiple teams though, just put the IRPO dudes in a team of their own, it's not like Red has a lot of forced battles either, just slam all four robots on his side so he can handle the boss battles and let based Fuse and the gang clean up everything else.
The real problem would be if the remake adds Ren as a recruitable but keeps the five party member base.

Damn I'd really like a IRPO spinoff tv series or something, they're some of the coolest characters in the series and the chemistry is amazing.
Imagine a high budget six episode OVA series like Cyber City Oedo, which each episode devoted to one of the team members, it would be glorious.

[Anonymous No.5511384]

>>5510419
Formations come into play a few generations later, so until then you just take the forced death. Brilliant.

>>5510432
lol

>>5510485
My point is that it's not, LP is just there and doesn't contribute to anything. Doesn't make things hard at all.

[Anonymous No.5511397]

>>5510661
>Suddenly, XCOM or Jagged Alliance 2
XCOM at least provides an Iron-Man mode and Fire Emblem makes it explicitly known that permadeath is the way it's meant to be played

>So again, losing isn't losing because you can reload?
Saving anywhere is more lax and prone to "let me relod my save until RNG favors me" solutions.

>I'm still waiting for an example of a supposedly punishing RPG, moron.
It's about pointless mechanics retard. LP is pointless, POINTLESS.

[Anonymous No.5511581]

>>5511384
You can get new formations as soon as you finish up Leon's prologue, and really, if you even let anyone die during Gerald's generation, like you evidently did, you're beyond saving.
>LP is just there and doesn't contribute to anything.
Except it does, otherwise you wouldn't complain about it like you're doing.
Again, LP serves multiple purposes, one of which is forcing you to play aggressively since you can't just leave somebody incapacitated on the field like other games, which you still ignore because again, it destroys your "argument"
>XCOM at least provides an Iron-Man mode
So it's okay when a game provides an explicit challenge to force you to admit you suck at the game but it's not fine when it doesn't have it?
>and Fire Emblem makes it explicitly known that permadeath is the way it's meant to be played
And permadeath in SaGa somehow doesn't?
>Saving anywhere is more lax and prone to "let me relod my save until RNG favors me"
I agree, what does that have to do with SaGa though? Don't tell me you're THAT bad at the games you have to hope what little RNG is there turns around to save your sorry ass?
>LP is pointless, POINTLESS.
First you say that LP is unavoidable and now you say LPs are pointless? Damn dude, your grasp on logic is failing hard here.
I guess that why Romancing SaGa 2 of all things has stuff like Life Steal or things like Death Scythe spam, let alone limited LP potions, I guess that's also why the games have limited healing tools coupled with various systems that make LP a key resource, from Frontier 2's LP cure system to Unlimited SaGa's LP based damage or Minstrel Song's LP channeling mechanics.
I guess that's also why LPs are integral parts of character identity for people like Koumei, Coppelia, Michelle, Silver or Hermann and people also do specific challenge runs or builds around low LP characters.
But lo and behold, the anonymous genius designer appears once again in the retro board of 4chan to school industry veterans.

[Anonymous No.5512054]

>>5510836
>Red is Alkaiser
Take this conspiracy theory bullshit to /x/

[Anonymous No.5512671]

>>5510836
I use Cotton instead of Silence

[Anonymous No.5512687]

>>5511150
Wait is Frontier getting a remake?

[Anonymous No.5512707]

>>5509530
current squenix executive has said that there is a very real desire and a very real chance its going to be remastered after the launch of scarlet in the west.

[Anonymous No.5513062]

>>5512687
Well, Kawazu is slowly remastering/remaking all the games in the series, and now that Romancing SaGa 3 is out of the way the next in line is Frontier.
He also did drop a lot of Frontier references/fanservice in the recent games, which is the usual signal when he's going to remake a game, Frontier also went through a notoriously troubled development cycle and Kawazu himself isn't satisfied with how it turned out, so you know, don't be surprised if they announce a remake, pretty sure Kawazu's big priority now before retiring is creating a definitive version of each entry in the series, the current series producer is also just as big of a fan of the series as you and I, so we can count on somebody to push the series through Squenix' board of executives, especially now that they realized (or rather, remembered) how lucrative it can be.

[Anonymous No.5513135]

>>5502023
>and of course Unlimited
are you braindead? USaga is one of the worst games of all time. It's a legit shitty game.

[Anonymous No.5513149]

>>5513135
>USaga is one of the worst games of all time. It's a legit shitty game.
You don't belong in these threads

[Anonymous No.5513189]

>>5513149
I disagree. You're in them all the time and I genuinely think your taste is terrible. Keep doing you, but don't think your love of Unlimited makes you better. It just makes you have atrocious taste.

[Anonymous No.5513215]

>>5513189
>You're in them all the time and I genuinely think your taste is terrible
Rest assured, the feeling is mutual.
>don't think your love of Unlimited makes you better.
You think I like Unlimited because I feel the need to affirm some presumed superiority on an anonymous imageboard?
That says more about your own precarious mental condition than me or my tastes, I like Unlimited because it's a great game and the quintessential SaGa game for a lot of things.

Rest assured it's definitely not for everyone, which you might argue is a reason why it's so good in the first place, but to say it's one of the worst games of all time only shows how shortsighted you are at best or how entry level you are at worst.

[Anonymous No.5513312]

>>5513135
Did you even read his sentence right? Unlimited is with the other games that you shouldn't start with.

[Anonymous No.5513351]

>>5504248
This man lies

[Anonymous No.5513414]

>>5507002
SaGa has always been quite experimental and has evolved a lot while keeping its core intact. The hearts system was a primitive LP system and dying was not common, while in RS-onwards getting one-shotted was to be expected, and in RS2 you were given a colossal list of characters because of the lethality.

>>5509013
Good god no never do Asellus first. Her scenario is the boss rush scenario and can be quite bullshit in many places. You should do Red or Blue first. Red is more on-rails and straightforward and Blue's region map gives you a lot of freedom to explore the universe.

[Anonymous No.5513416]

>>5510405
>enemies decide to focus your weakest or 2nd weakest character because fuck you
You run into enemies and break your formation don't you?

[Anonymous No.5514123]

>>5513312
He's just one guy who wants to convince others that Unlimited is a bad game for some reason, he's been doing this since some time.