/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.5477901]

Out of all the classic Build Engine games (Blood, Redneck Rampage, Duke 3D and Shadow Warrior) which one is considered the best?

[Anonymous No.5477905]

>>5477901
Duke 3D is the real answer, but Blood is probably the /vr/ answer.

[Anonymous No.5477908]

Shadow Warrior.

[Anonymous No.5477962]

>>5477901
Blood > Douk > Powerslave > Shadow Warrior

[Anonymous No.5478000]

Ion Maiden looks really good.

[Anonymous No.5478142]

>>5477901
Duke is the default platform for Build userlevels, so.

[Anonymous No.5478802]

>>5477901
Blood > Duke >>> Shadow Warrior >>> Redneck Rampage
Blood and Duke are very close, but Blood's weapons are a bit more satisfying. That glorious super shotgun...

[Anonymous No.5478838]

Blood by far. Then it's a tie between Duke and SW.

I also have a soft spot for the Build version of Powerslave, it's a pretty nice Doom clone with a very cool aesthetic, but it's a bit barebones compared to the "holy trinity".

[Anonymous No.5478980]

Duke is most consistently amazing but I think the highs of Blood are better. They're really close.

Shadow Warrior is significantly worse and thoroughly unenjoyable

[Anonymous No.5478983]

The killdeer (Charadrius vociferus) is a large plover found in the Americas. It was described and given its current scientific name in 1758 by Carl Linnaeus in the 10th edition of his Systema Naturae. Subspecies breed from southeastern Alaska and southern Canada to Mexico, in the West Indies, and in and around Peru. The non-breeding habitat includes coastal wetlands, beach habitats, and coastal fields. Although it is a shorebird, it does not necessarily nest close to water. Both parents incubate their eggs for 22 to 28 days on average. The killdeer primarily feeds on insects, although other invertebrates and seeds are eaten. It forages almost exclusively in fields, especially those with short vegetation and with cattle and standing water. It has a range of responses to predation by birds and mammals, including charging at intruders, which can be fatal for the killdeer. The species is declining but not yet threatened

[Anonymous No.5478985]

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[Anonymous No.5479003]

>yfw DOS Duke has had RoR all along

[Anonymous No.5479107]

>>5479003
Did you ever doubt that? What ports like EDuke32 introduced was TROR with no tricks. I hate people that think these games aren't actually 3D, at least to the best of their abilities.

[Anonymous No.5479226]

>>5479107
You're confusing RoR with something else. There isn't a single RoR in all of DN3D.

[Anonymous No.5479229]

>>5479226
He's talking of the spiral staircases achieved through clever use of portals that are literally everywhere in Duke3D. Goddamn it, you fucking know that you just wanted to do a gotcha comment.

[Anonymous No.5479245]

>>5479229
And I'm telling you this has nothing to do with RoR. Also there is no "portal trick" in this case, it's just how Build works.

[Anonymous No.5479246]

>>5479245
Oh fuck sake.

[Anonymous No.5479249]

>>5479245
I'm not even mad about the technicalities I don't care about in the build engine, I'm mad because you're two old man acting like children.
I'm too old for 4chan.

[Anonymous No.5479265]

>>5479226
Sectors in build are arbitrary 3D pockets defined by a minimum of 6 vertices in a xyz space, what are you going to do about it?

[Anonymous No.5481479]

The contrarian answer is Blood but Duke is the definitive Build shooter. Blood is great, Shadow Warrior is good, Redneck Rampage is campy and fun, but Duke sets the gold standard for level design, character definition, environmental interactivity, and weapon feel.

[Anonymous No.5481485]

For me it's Star Wars Dark Forces and Duke Nukem.

[Anonymous No.5481678]

>>5481485
>Star Wars Dark Forces
Now that's a name I haven't heard in a long time. A long time.

[Anonymous No.5481685]

>>5481485
>Dark Forces
Not a Build game, brainlet

[Anonymous No.5481696]

>>5481485
Dark Forces uses Jedi Engine. It also uses sectors and calculates visibility via portals, but its shares no code at all with BUILD. The revision in Outlaws added support for stacking sectors vertically.

[Anonymous No.5481714]

>>5481696
Ok thanks for the info I knew it is not a doom engine so I automatically assumed it's a build.

[Anonymous No.5482172]

>>5477901
Duke 3D is the best, Blood is my personal favorite.

[Anonymous No.5483020]

Blood is the most overrated game on /vr/, probably because Post Mortem died, and fanbase found their new home here.

Outside /vr/, Blood is considered as a fart in the wind.

[Anonymous No.5483647]

>>5483020
Every old 3D shooter not named Doom is "considered as a fart in the wind" nowadays.

[Anonymous No.5483673]

>>5483647
fuck zoomers

[Anonymous No.5483692]

>>5483647
And even Doom is only still relevant because of Brutal Doom

[Anonymous No.5483718]

>>5483692
Mostly, yes.

[Anonymous No.5485151]

>>5479003
Nice sprites bro

[Anonymous No.5485185]

Duke level highlights

E1M1, from the bridge leading to the end of the level you spot a thin ledge on the building. There is something lying there, don't remember what. You jump down there, collect it, the ledge continues further around the building, becomes wider, you get to the end of it, there is nothing there, a lonely palm tree is standing right next to it, its height just right. You jump on it. Nothing happens, you are just now standing atop the palm tree. You observe your locales. Before you is a seemingly impenetrable building wall with non-transparent windows. The distance is just for you to reach a single window, inaccessiable from the ledge, from that palm tree, if you jump without running. You jump, and pass right through it, there is a secret there after all.

E1M2, beta. In the adult video store, you open the coded door, before you is a corridor with a lit elevator in the end of it. You go to it, someone starts shooting at you from somewhere, from the pitch black passage to the right of you. Maybe you blindly fire back, maybe you hide and wait for the enemy to come to you. Anyway, provided you pistolstarted, you don't have the night vision googles. You have a choice. You can go into the darkness without the googles, or you can pass it for the time being, and hope to find the googles later. In the beta version of the level, the mini-maze is entirely unlit. If you tackle it without googles, and hope to complete it with minimum damage taken, you aggro the enemies, then you backpedal and you let them come to you. If you don't go into the maze immediately, you proceed with the level normally, and near the very end of it, there is a fairly difficult to spot secret ledge with the googles on it, which is only reachable through running or taking steroids. After you get the googles, you back track from that near the end of level to the maze near its beginning and complete it with googles. EITHER WAY YOU BACKTRACK. A bit on several occasions, as in case with...

[Anonymous No.5485198]

>>5485185
...proceeding blindly, or a lot once, as in case with finding the googles.

E1M3. At one point you open a door that leads to a bridge that goes into nothing other than a panel on the wall. After usage, the panel slides up, revealing what seems to be a map. If you open your own map of the level, while facing that map, you find out that your map currently has the exact same orientation. Despite your map being incomplete, you spot another difference between your map and panel map. There is an arrow pointing to a certain part of the panel map. The place that corresponds to where that arrow points contains the "Shawshank Redemption" poster, passing through which is mandatory to progress with the level.

E2M6. By the means of using the jetpack, after triggering a scripted event from the vent, you access the secret, taking the other exit from which makes you emerge right next to a previous secret from where you acquired your jetpack (the only one on the level) to begin with. That secret you accessed through the usage of jetpack, contains a box of rockets for the battlelord you passed on your way to the vent, from which you have triggered the jetpack-requiring secret. Yes, I know that's difficult to read.

[Anonymous No.5485215]

Also, Powerslave, level 2.

Proceeding with the level, you come onto the stream of water. You jump in it, the water carries you, as you float, to your right, you spot an angular niche in the wall. There is a solitary rat there, just sitting there watching you watching it, a bit further there is a bit larger niche on your left. There are two rats there sitting there and watching you observe them. The water carries you further, you come to the whirlpool, there seem to be moving shadows in it, something underwater. From the whirlpool you can either drop down to the pool, which is a point of no return, or go to the room adjoining the whilpool - which contains the second dark maze in the level. Regardless, hopefully while you get to or from the whirlpool to the adjoining room, you get a chance to spot a rat or two doing the same, either going out of the water into the room, or from the room back into the whirl. Regardless, you drop down into the pool eventually. Its bottom is choke-full of rats running around there, which is unusual for previously very realistic looking level, immediately gives it a very surreal feel. Also, that would be quite impossible to miss during internal playtesting. Anyway, you need to swim underwater for a bit, in order to get to another room containing yet another key, bla-bla. Anyway, you open the room in the mapster, apparently, all the rats were initially spawned in the whirlpool, and dropped into the pool (or got into the whirlpool-adjoining-room) by themselves.

[Anonymous No.5485217]

>>5485215
>Regardless, hopefully while you get to or from the whirlpool to the adjoining room, you get a chance to spot a rat or two doing the same, either going out of the water into the room, or from the room back into the whirl, thus forming yet another "suspicious shadow", which answers the question regarding their nature.

[Anonymous No.5486413]

>>5477901
If I'm going to rank them

Duke 3D > Blood > Redneck Rampage > Shadow Warrior

Duke is just the most consistently enjoyable and by far most solid and "complete" of the Build games, with great enemy, weapon and level design, there's really nothing wrong with the game, and Duke is a lot of fun as a protagonist.

Blood has a lot of great ideas and executes a lot of them really well, but it falls apart when examined in a little more depth. The weapons mostly feel great to use, there's a lot of enemy variety and it has some of the best Build levels out there, but it also has a lot of barely finished and rushed aspects, like the enemy AI being shitty and a lot of bland levels to pad the later episodes out. I definitely think Blood has a lot going for it, but it just doesn't quite come together the same way Duke does.

Redneck Rampage seems to get a lot wrong, but what it gets right I find really make the game good. The enemy design is lacking with the bulk of the game being the same enemies along with the notoriously un-fun space vixens and the weapons just feel like garbage . However the level design really makes it greater than the sum of its parts and somehow gets the elements it has work together as you get used to the weapons. Also, it has a great soundtrack.

Shadow Warrior is just really bland to me, and that's the worst I can feel about a game. At least RR is bad in interesting ways that kind of complement it, but I really just grew tired of Shadow Warrior. The enemy encounters mostly felt very samey in bland urban/industrial levels with the occasional temple-y level thrown in and I never really found a weapon I liked to use since they just felt kind of weak outside of the explosives. Shadow Warrior sounds like a lot of fun on paper, but I didn't really like much about it.

Ion Maiden is shaping up to be great (if it ever releases) if the level design quality can keep up with what we've seen so far then it's a strong contender for second best on my list.

[Anonymous No.5487631]

>>5486413
I like that ranking.