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/vr/ - Retro Games

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File: 2.93 MB, 720x405, panzer.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5449124 No.5449124 [Reply] [Original]

Is it just me, or do Saturn games have a certain look to them? Is it from developers focusing the majority of their polygon budget onto the dynamic objects and relegating simple 2D sprites and VDP2 to the environments and backgrounds? Saturn games look like they can literally be recreated in paper mache.

>> No.5449129

It looks like a lot of huge sprites and "large and low poly" models

Also the lack of PSX triangle uglies makes it distinct

>> No.5449146

i read that they used squares instead of triangles.

>> No.5449150

The Saturn has some nice colors and sits comfortably between the primitive early 3D games and the later developments. It's not so old as to look like buttery ass but not so new as to feel soulless and similar.

>> No.5449154

Most consoles do have a look. If you can't correctly identify a home system by a couple of pics at least 75% of the time you simply didn't play them enough.

>> No.5449158

That is correct and perspectivve squares distort a little bit less than triangles.

>> No.5449164

I haven't seen a whole lot of Saturn games in action and I'm really impressed with how the movement looks. The skeletal animation seems to have smooth, precise interpolation between poses that you couldn't do on the PSX to my knowledge.
The shots and explosions are all 2D billboards. The trees mix billboards with 3D geometry in some clever ways. I don't remember ever seeing this trick on the PSX. It likely wouldn't have looked as good.

>> No.5449186

>talks about saturn aesthetics
>posts an emulator

>> No.5449206
File: 2.94 MB, 720x480, nights_svideo.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

What difference does it make

>> No.5449414

input lag is literally the only problem with saturn emulation but i'm sure he doesn't have any original hardware and is just a shitposter

>> No.5449430
File: 3.24 MB, 4656x2620, P_20170829_172817_vHDR_Auto.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

The floor and ceiling isn't actually geometry, it's an infinite plane.

a lot of games often just do not work.

>> No.5449437

mednafen is actually extremely good now, only a few games don't work
unfortunately one of those is die hard trilogy

>> No.5449445
File: 1.92 MB, 3264x2448, P_20181007_192141_vHDR_On.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

mednafen may be the worst of the big 3 saturn emulators. It's got the most compatibility issues, rendering issues, logic errors, it's a real mess. It was developed as if it was just a check list for a feature, not as if it was a fleshed out element. A real screw up.

>> No.5449454

It has long since surpassed SSF and has always been better than yabause. Keep believing what you want to believe, I guess.

>> No.5449467

It can't even run a simple 2D game like Linkle Liver Story.

>> No.5449474
File: 82 KB, 1280x720, maxresdefault (1).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Scaling and rotation of sprites on a 2d plane is how many early 3d games made the effect without wasting all their polygons.

It's similar to how the airship travel scenes on FF6 worked, but with a few poly models overlaid.

Like SNES Starfox dialed up to 11. It's really quite impressive what the devs pulled off.

>> No.5449507
File: 3.26 MB, 1584x1080, Linkle Liver Story (Japan)-190320-052518.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

> Linkle Liver Story - Game crashes when going to the world map. Cache coherency problem. Fixed in 1.22.1
yes it can lol, even the english patched version works
>b-b-but show me the world map
no, i need to sleep and don't want to beat the intro just to show you a screenshot, feel free to look here if you think that quote is fake for some reason, there are plenty of real issues for you to bitch about here while they're being fixed:

>> No.5449521

what game is that?

>> No.5449526

Not by PS3. Barely during PS2.

>> No.5449532

PS2 has shitty interlacing (or blurring to hide it) and muddy textures in most of its games, it's easy to notice.

>> No.5449540

Thanks for the big list of broken shit. Good to see it's still a terrible emulator.

>> No.5449557
File: 164 KB, 2048x1536, B6ygK42.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>> No.5449559

Well, it had extremely different rendering hardware from other 3d consoles of the time. N64 had its own look and PSX had its own look too. It's not like now where 3d hardware has all basically homogenized graphics.

>> No.5449562

there are so many bogus claims about computer graphics in this thread it hurts

>> No.5449697

Nah, Gamecube had a distinct shiny plastic look to its graphics

>> No.5450076

Good to see you know fuck all about emulation if you think that's a 'big list of broken shit'
more like 'small list of mostly fixed issues'
just lmao if you think 50 games out of 1,200+ having mostly minor issues like flickering FMVs makes it a 'terrible emulator'.
Also, use different cables on your crt, it looks like shit.

>> No.5450102

Got any more videos of this "look"? Could it be that you are referencing the "Panzer Dragoon look"?

>> No.5450112

wtf is that you chris?

>> No.5450402

No, I mean the Saturn’s 3D look, how games made specifically for the Saturn look that is. Another good example would be burning rangers.

>> No.5450878

>a lot of games often just do not work.
Horse shit.
>It has long since surpassed SSF and has always been better than yabause
-SSF is still more accurate and has higher compatibility.
-It also has less input lag.
-It also enables the option to render meshes as true transparencies.
-It also has proper de-interlacing support
-It also requires a stupidly fast quadcore CPU.

>> No.5450881

>also requires a stupidly fast quadcore CPU.
*Mednafen does

>> No.5450908
File: 873 KB, 2560x1440, panzer 1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Here's an example of what I mean by the "Saturn look". It's in 3D, but just barely. Wherever they can resort to 2D sprites they do, for example the guys hands, his wrench thing, the dragon's feet/wings/face flap things.

>> No.5450915
File: 927 KB, 2560x1440, panzer 2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>It's in 3D, but just barely
This is a bad way to put it, I mean more that it looks like it's barely pulling it off. Know what I mean?

>> No.5450919

u wot

>> No.5450930
File: 281 KB, 2048x1536, ho7nSnK.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.5450932

Mode 7 converted the graphics to a textured plane made up of polygons.

>> No.5450934
File: 45 KB, 540x445, NARb.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.5450943
File: 61 KB, 640x480, FFy6pYb.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.5450956

Mode 7 has nothing to do with polygons.

>> No.5450961

u dun it nao ahbur waskr

>> No.5450962
File: 140 KB, 1440x1080, Virtua_Fighter_-_1995_-_Sega.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.5451376

>Is it just me
No. Hundreds of other people have only watched the same youtube videos you have and are unaware of the rest of the massive and diverse Saturn library.

>> No.5451417

Hope this isn't Chris's face.

>> No.5451423
File: 204 KB, 1024x695, Saturn_US_PrintAdvert_3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

The Sega Saturn feels like a fever dream that somehow manifested itself into reality.
I still feel weird thinking about the Saturn, like "oh right, it DOES exist!", and I got mine back in 1996/97.

>> No.5451428

Even as a little kid back in 1995 I went to a store and they were showing some Saturn games like Tomb Raider on a monitor I thought "this looks like fucking shit".

>> No.5451435

Textured plane, yes. Polygons, no. The SNES couldn't do polygons at all without an expansion chip.

>> No.5451443

It is.

Best is DS.

>> No.5451447
File: 14 KB, 320x213, CHEFOFCOLOUR.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

affine transformation, say it after me

>> No.5452293

God kill yourself you fucking tryhard. I’ve probably burned a hundred Saturn games at this point and the 3D games all have a unique look to their graphics.

>> No.5452303
File: 475 KB, 500x380, A6A6B3E1-E099-41B2-81F2-FD2F122BD66F.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.5452305

If you are some turbo autist that thinks they can notice the input lag, please do some tests. You can probably be in a record book somewhere.

>> No.5452310

You should stop spewing shit. No one cares about your chosen emulator being shit.

To everyone else, Mednafen works perfect.

>> No.5452315
File: 50 KB, 552x462, sexy psx.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>PSX was so much better at 3D

>> No.5452325

Yes, there is a very distinct aesthetic that was common on the Saturn, both in 2D and in 3D, from the palettes used to how objects were shaped through polygons. Certain games you could take one look at, without knowing what game it is, and know it's a Saturn game.

>> No.5452347

those are pre-rasterized, no?

>> No.5452378 [DELETED] 
File: 1.82 MB, 3200x2400, Yabausev0.9.142016-01-096_2250PM.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>> No.5452379 [DELETED] 
File: 638 KB, 2048x1536, HWibyCO.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>> No.5452381 [DELETED] 
File: 309 KB, 1264x939, xhqMQBd.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>> No.5452391

You realize that when you get this mad and defensive everyone knows you're just a bullshitting baby, right?

>> No.5452394
File: 397 KB, 1024x768, 1428559199844.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>> No.5452395

Are you implying somehow that Saturns and modchips/pseudo saturns are hard to come by or something?

>> No.5452401
File: 125 KB, 1024x768, 1428532406441.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>> No.5452412

I was about to say these graphics remind me of tomb raider but then again tomb raider was initially developed for the SATURN so I guess it’s the other way around.

>> No.5452417 [DELETED] 
File: 2.71 MB, 3200x2400, Yabausev0.9.142016-01-1012_32_17PM.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

[president's daughter intensifies]

>> No.5452424

These games and their graphic assets were never meant to be displayed at these ridiculous resolutions.

>> No.5452427
File: 151 KB, 960x730, Congrats lolturtle youve posted the worst post of all time _b8059ec35686692d2a9db3907752be08.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

That's probably the wrongest statement about Mode 7 ever committed to the written word.
Why are you posting a PS1 game? Did you think we notice?

>> No.5452430

Both versions were developed in tandem, the Saturn port was just released earlier.

>> No.5452431

Good thing they still look good blown up to that res.

>> No.5452435

Only Saturn game i played so far is Bulk Slash and it looks amazing.

>> No.5452450

no, those are legit 3D. crystals too. you can edit the geometry in hyrule magic

>> No.5452460

Yeah I get what you mean, "anime style" games in particular tend to be more ubiquitous. It's kinda like PC-98 weeb games but in low poly 3D, it's hard to describe.

>> No.5452467

The Saturn's use of polygons has nothing to do with animu aesthetics you dipshit.

>> No.5452469

Yeah but animu Saturn games have a very particular look.

>> No.5452527

They have a "look" because of how the Saturn handles 2D sprites, outputs video, and resolution it draws shit at. And none of that has to do with this thread, which is how the Saturn handled 3D polygons giving them a chunkier look.

You sound like the numerous retards on this shithole who throw around the word "aesthetic" like you're well read and cultured but you're just a pretentious illiterate dipshit.

>> No.5452889 [DELETED] 

They look really good in high res.

>> No.5452926 [DELETED] 
File: 653 KB, 2048x1536, 4snCHme.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>> No.5452934

This thread is lookin' good

>> No.5452943 [DELETED] 
File: 461 KB, 3200x2400, ra9eSAC.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>> No.5452954


I'd sell my right nut for a third installment of this.

>> No.5452958

Ps1 is bad.

>> No.5452993 [DELETED] 
File: 831 KB, 1024x768, Magical Hoppers (20).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Pandemonium may not be a great game but still is a good and pretty charming game.
You can always play the japanese version, Magical Hoppers, were the main character got an animu makeover.

Playstation version pictured.

>> No.5453008 [DELETED] 
File: 326 KB, 1264x939, Rf0n9DQ.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Atrocious game. Meanwhile, at Saturn...

>> No.5453038 [DELETED] 
File: 563 KB, 3200x2400, HDLvuBX.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>> No.5453054 [DELETED] 
File: 564 KB, 3200x2400, NZ2ttGh.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>> No.5453080

>high res VDP1 polygon object layer
>low res VDP2 floor layer

Jarring. Saturn emulation still has a long way to go.

>> No.5453094

I'm "helping" a Saturn emulator project, what do you expect the most? There is something you want that no existing emulator did so far?

>> No.5453113

I'm not implying anything. I'm saying that you're a butthurt little child who's lying on the internet. Even a 33rd degree autist wouldn't get as triggered as you about a joke unless it hit too close to home.

>> No.5453216

You can always load arbitrary graphics to video memory. Lots of genesis games did 3D like that. SNES is just slower.

>> No.5453220

The floor is a texture, you can't just wish it was higher resolution

>> No.5453229

Doesn't mean it can't be somehow improved (by improved I don't mean shader btw)

>> No.5453340


wrong, this doesn't use a chip. runs like shit, but you said at all

>> No.5453535
File: 240 KB, 1600x1120, 2592987-sonic+1+ghz+eggman+fight+hi-res.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

It literally does, unless you think smearing the texture is a good idea.

>> No.5453537

He obviously meant hardware polygons.

>> No.5453548

He was obviously a fucking moron who thinks that making a game magically creates an entire world inside a TV screen.

>> No.5453552

Looks good. But it's too smooth.

>> No.5453580

you might be interested in Gamehut on youtube. A dude who did a ton of close-to-the-metal programming for Saturn and a bunch of other machines talks about the technical quirks and limitations of the hardware and working around them to get the visual effects he needed.

>> No.5453710

Gamescom postmortum this year was Saga.

Futatsugi said he used the scrolling 2d background to compensate for lack of 3d resources. Saturn was the ultimate 2d machine and the scrolling 2d background was good for that illusion. Also said That the Zoah tunnel was to hide a loading screen.

>> No.5453747

Lmao it's the fact that it's 32 bit instead of the 64

>> No.5453750

>(((Looks good)))

>> No.5453783

ok, I got retro arch and space on a HD, what emulator and games do I get to try out the saturn since I've never played it

>> No.5453794

if sega and the dreamcast lived we still would have had arcadey 3d hard but fun and simple games

>> No.5453819

That cart required two dedicated chips for that triforce animation alone. Miyamoto insisted nintendo spend on the two chips and they were very mad at him for being right.

>> No.5453825


>> No.5453828

Nintndo.com of course. Many reports were filed there, friend.

>> No.5453845


>> No.5453953

Same here. VDP1 layer, great in highres. Then that VDP2 layer, bam.

>> No.5454134

Why are there fanboys for emulators of all things?

>> No.5454142

the opening is also cuter.

>> No.5454161
File: 3.92 MB, 1947x3875, saturn-jp-composition.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.5454163
File: 2.29 MB, 2512x1941, saturn-us-composition.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.5454354

oh, that's lit

>> No.5454764
File: 2.99 MB, 480x336, Quad Rendering.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Exactly. Squares textured with distorted sprites.

>> No.5455918 [DELETED] 

I know that this is part of a youtube video, but how the fuck I can toggle wireframe mode in Saturn emulators? What emulators suport this?
I need to study some games topology.

>> No.5455927

>I need to study some games topology
Don't. Nothing of this is of a any use today due to how Saturn hardware renders these things.

>> No.5455937 [DELETED] 

3D models are 3D models, it doesn't matter if built with quads or tris.

>> No.5456554

literally retarded

>> No.5456578

You don't know what you are babbling about anon.

>> No.5456672 [DELETED] 
File: 124 KB, 480x336, saturn wireframe.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Why? This is common low poly 3D topology like in any Playstation game, only with quads instead of tris.
Saturn may render them in a different way, but the topology works the same.

I'm a 3D modeler. And I'm trying to achieve the Saturn look by studing the Saturn 3D models.

>> No.5456690

Looks better

>> No.5456723

You are an idiot, that is what you are.

>> No.5456793

I don't know what Emulator was used for the video, but there aren't that many anyway.

Here's the source video btw.
The Sequence from the WebM starts at around 3:36 min

>> No.5456826

This is an extremely underwhelming library.

>> No.5456850

How well is Panzer Dragoon Saga emulated these days? I've always wanted to check it out.

>> No.5456870
File: 109 KB, 1525x751, yjawzH6.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>Is it just me, or do Saturn games have a certain look to them?
Square polygons from using nVidia NV1 tech. They actually made a pc graphics card based on the Saturn's graphical capabilities and it makes that 'certain look' more readily apparent when you use it to run non-Sega games.

>> No.5456883

I always hated how the enemies that walk back and forth will just spawn in when you're real close. Lost my shooting magic power up many times that way.

>> No.5456932

I don't get this. They subdivide each quad when you get close?

>> No.5456942

Playstation does it too. It's to avoid texture warping.

>> No.5457015


PS3 has worst metal textures than 360. They don't look as shiny/polished.

>> No.5457087

Its because the Saturn a lot of time just faked 3D by distorting sprites rather than using polygons

>> No.5457092

You're illiterate if you don't see what they are saying.

>> No.5457097

What? Have you used mednafen or beetle Saturn in the past 2 years?

>> No.5457276

Pretty good. Worth a play.

>> No.5457352

>saturn US
>deep fear

>> No.5457551

Kinda true but it's fairly unique which makes it worth exploring.

>> No.5457732

Very inaccurate...

>> No.5457754

All Sega consoles had an unique look to them.

>> No.5458421

its not from using Nvidia's NV1 tech. Nvidia came second.

yeah, not as big as PS1 but definitely superior to the N64.

>> No.5460375

The main problem with Mednafen is timing. It's pretty far off and results in quite a few games running too fast. A good metric to try is Street Fighter Alpha 3. On real hardware and I believe SSF the attract mode animation is in sync with the audio and both end at the title screen. On Mednafen it gets out of sync as the visuals are going by way too fast and you get to the title screen before the audio is done playing.

This causes a few problems in other games as well. For example Grandia will hang due to timing issues when you get to the end of Disc 1 and it tries to display the message saying "This is the end of Disc 1, please save and insert Disc 2". This prevents you from being able to save and thus continue on to Disc 2.

>> No.5460418

>obligatory hate on game x bait post in a completely unrelated thread
what's the fucking point?

>> No.5460665

Your screenshot is from some garbage mobile port of the game. In the snes version the ground was one flat plane. No house models there.