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/vr/ - Retro Games

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File: 85 KB, 400x375, 56007-Kirby's_Adventure_(USA)-10.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5448423 No.5448423 [Reply] [Original]

Why do easy games upset people so badly on this board?

>> No.5448427

Every game is easy with savestates

>> No.5448440

>>5448423
Love Kirby. Wish he had a crossover with Wario.

>> No.5448449

>>5448423
this game was so comfy

>> No.5448471

>>5448427
What about the later stages in Sokoban?
You need 1000s of moves and if you made one wrong one at the start you're fucked.

>> No.5448487

Because wasted potential, some are good enough that you can imagine how well theyd play if they had challenge but they dont

>> No.5449719

>>5448487
How does "increased difficulty" equate to good gameplay?

>> No.5449804

>>5449719
Difficulty brings out depth from mechanics, it adds intensity, it's rewarding to overcome and it forces you to focus. It should be obvious.

>> No.5449813
File: 39 KB, 678x519, 1296373751651.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5449813

>>5449804
It's great to have more relaxing games though. After playing(read: getting played by) Ninja Gaiden or CV3, it's nice to chill with Kirby or Gun-nac.

>> No.5449832

>>5449719
because easy games are unengaging, which is the greatest sin a video game can commit. You're just going through the motions. It becomes like driving, a mundane, simplistic task that still requires your constant attention. It's like watching a really boring tv show you can't look away from.

>> No.5449859

>>5449813
That's why most who complain about a lack of challenge in easy games want optional difficulty modes rather than changes to base difficulty. It's good to have options, and very frustrating when you get bored with a game not because its mechanics and design are bad but because the devs couldn't be bothered to tune some health and damage values/timers for a hard mode.

>> No.5449876

>>5449832
>>5449859
Maybe some people play games for the experience instead of the “challenge”?

>> No.5449886

>>5449876
And? Doesn't have anything to do with what I said. Easy modes let you turn any game into "an experience" while hard modes potentially let you turn any game into a fun challenge. Also consider Naughty Dog's cinematic experiences fag

>> No.5449908

>>5448423
cuz normies beat easy games and act proud of it, like they accomplished something, but they probably can't even beat one actually challenging game.

>> No.5449926

Walking simulators are a totally legit genre guys. No need to hate on Kirby for being one.

>> No.5450024

>>5449926
This but unironically.

>> No.5450070

>>5449832
>because easy games are unengaging
I agree with this, combat in games like the 3D Zelda's become mindless when you've vastly increased your max HP so that you don't even care if you get it.

Although FYI Kirby's Adventure does have a hard mode where you have half as much health.

>> No.5450147

>>5450070
>combat in games like the 3D Zelda's become mindless when you've vastly increased your max HP
Then choose not to collect heart pieces. Pretty simple.

>> No.5450159

Because one of the defining features of autism is a lack of empathy or ability to see others' perspectives.

>> No.5450258

>>5450147
But heart pieces are frequently the reward for side content and exploration. What if someone wants to experience that content without becoming an overpowered tank?

>> No.5450545

>>5449813
you can have some relaxing and challenging games.
many puzzle games get harder than ninja gaiden in later levels but they're good for unwinding.

>> No.5450559

>>5450545
Tons of challenging games also become relaxing when you get very good at them...or just don't play with the goal of winning.

>> No.5450582
File: 82 KB, 640x689, Sargon Of Akkad Paragon of Intellectualism.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5450582

>>5450159
I see your point but don't pin this on autism.

I don't know where to begin with this because it's such a big topic, but you know else makes a person lack empathy? Being so sure of pseudo-intellectual BS that you're unwilling to hear the opinions of others.

>> No.5450801

>>5448423
Seeing people enjoy things with minimal effort fills me with an immense rage.

>> No.5450809

>>5450801
like videogames?

>> No.5450814

What are you talking /vr/ doesnt like hard games?
they are always complaining about how difficult a game is.

>> No.5450820

>>5450814
Why is it so hard to grasp there is more than one person posting on 4chan.

>> No.5450892

>>5450258
They do the content, and then don't pick up heart pieces. How did you not figure that out yourself?

>> No.5450927

>>5450892
>complete sidequest
>NPC hands you a heart piece during dialog upon completion
>lol just don't pick it up

>explore dungeon/grotto
>find chest and open it
>it contains a heart piece
>lol just don't pick it up

????

>> No.5450939

>>5448423
Because no one likes spending a king's ransom on a game that you can complete within a day.

>> No.5450963

>>5448423
You're a person on this board, so why don't you explain it to us

>> No.5450972

>>5450582
Intolerant opinions don't need to be heard.

>> No.5450975

Because casual gamers / comfyfags are degenerate.

>> No.5450980

>>5450975
>degenerate
Ah, so challengefags are toxic shitlords

>> No.5450989

>>5450927
>doing 3 heart challenge on your first playthrough
kek.

If you want to make OOT hard, why wouldn't you just speedrun it?

>> No.5450994

>>5450939
nigga haven't you ever heard of downloading shit for free
>>5450975
I highly doubt something like a 100 hour JRPG is "casual" despite being easy

>> No.5451414

>>5450980
This has been apparent since /v/ was a thing

>> No.5451441

>>5448423
Why do you play if not for challenge?
Is it some form of primal story telling or something?
>>5450820
That's not what you said last time!!

>> No.5451498

>>5451441
To listen to the music, to explore the world, maybe the story, admire the character designs,
really a lot of things. I don't have to always be "challenged" to enjoy a game.

>> No.5452093 [DELETED] 

>>5451441
>Why do you play if not for challenge?
Because it's fun to explore games mechanically. If the only variable you care about is difficulty, why are you playing games? Shouldn't you be working toward becoming a neurosurgeon?

>> No.5452097

>>5451441
>Why do you play if not for challenge?
Because it's fun to explore games mechanically and aesthetically. It's about the experience as a whole, not solely or even primarily the challenge.

If the only variable in an activity you care about is difficulty, why are you even playing games? Shouldn't you be working toward becoming a neurosurgeon?

>> No.5452102

>>5449719
Look up the concept of 'flow'. Most concepts for 'fun' are based on difficulty matching skill. Too easy and a task is boring, too hard and it causes anxiety or anger.
Note: i'm not saying 'hard' games are better, i'm saying the difficulty needs to match the skill of the player for it to be fun for them.

>> No.5452104

>>5450989
>>doing 3 heart challenge on your first playthrough
I don't do such things personally, but I could see why someone might want to if they really like the added challenge and already know that Zelda games are too easy for their liking with high numbers of hearts.

>> No.5452292

>>5452102
>Too easy and a task is boring
If this were true, amusement parks wouldn't make money.

>> No.5452481

>>5452292
An amusement park banks on people's natural hard wired anxieties and fears and makes them into entertainment by giving small doses of them in a controlled environment, they can't be compared to games really. Games can prevent boredom via other non-game aspects like nice visuals, music and story but as far as the actual games go fun is pretty much synonymous with flow.

>> No.5452501
File: 1.39 MB, 468x360, spyroicecavern.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5452501

>>5452481
>banks on people's natural hard wired anxieties and fears and makes them into entertainment by giving small doses of them in a controlled environment
Except many rides aren't scary, there are plenty that are just fun.
>they can't be compared to games really
Of course they can. Otherwise easy games wouldn't make money.
>as far as the actual games go fun is pretty much synonymous with flow.
Easy games can flow. Movement and gameplay in Spyro flows extremely well even though it's an easy game.

>> No.5452518

>>5452501
>Except many rides aren't scary, there are plenty that are just fun.
Depends on the ride, some are engaging simply because they are social experiences, some allow competition, some have a certain amount of challenge in physical terms that keeps them from getting boring
>Otherwise easy games wouldn't make money.
There's no absolute standard for easy games, different player and player groups have different preferences and most players are extremely casual in regards to game difficulty so games like Kirby will be engaging to them. And as I mentioned non-game aspects go a long way to compensating for a lack of difficulty.
>Easy games can flow.
I don't think you understand what flow means, it's a psychological state of deep engagement not how smooth a game feels

>> No.5452543

>>5452518
>Depends on the ride
Yes, that is what I said.
>some are engaging simply because they are social experiences, some allow competition, some have a certain amount of challenge in physical terms that keeps them from getting boring
And some are fun because they feel good to ride.
>most players are extremely casual in regards to game difficulty so games like Kirby will be engaging to them.
Games like Kirby are engaging to me. I also have the golden god achievement in super meat boy, have all SS ranks in dustforce, all B and C sides in Celeste, have completed dozens of ninja tracks in trials, etc. the majority of retro platformers are easy compared to this stuff.
>I don't think you understand what flow means, it's a psychological state of deep engagement not how smooth a game feels
I do understand what flow means, and to me that psychological state heavily relates to how the movement in a game feels and how it allows you to transverse stages in a satisfying way, regardless of "difficulty".

>> No.5452581

>>5452543
>And some are fun because they feel good to ride.
That means nothing, look deeper and ask WHY they feel good to ride
>Games like Kirby are engaging to me.
Ok? Good to know. I have SS in Dustforce too, cleared all routes in Umihara Kawase and Sayonara Umihara Kawase, gotten perfect ranks in all levels in Cloudbuilt on the standard mode, have 1cc'd Ghosts N Goblins/Ghouls N Ghosts arcade and have done other hard stuff in games and Kirby feels like a waste of time to me unless I make it harder for myself by speedrunning it. Different people have diff preferences, that's why difficulty levels are needed.
>and to me that psychological state heavily relates to how the movement in a game feels
It comes from the implicit challenge, if a game's movement flows together well you're naturally encouraged to maintain that flow and not break it which can be challenging even in games which are easy to clear normally. Problem with that is that the line between well thought out implicit challenge and arbitrary feeling self imposed shit is very blurry so it's better to have a proper mode

>> No.5452798

The truth that a lot of people on /vr/ have the most difficulty swallowing is the fact that pretty much anybody who cares about skill and challenge in videogames these days simply plays multiplayer games to compete directly against other human beings. That's the real reason why it seems that gamers are only into cinematic experiences these days, because those are just about the only people out there who play single player games, the only people who play games for the challenge that haven't moved on to multiplayer games are old boomer fossils.

>> No.5452803

>>5452798
That's a cute narrative but it's ultimately false seeing as how games like Cuphead were massive successes and btfo modern gamers relentlessly despite being nothing special difficulty-wise, or team-based multiplayer being the most popular genre BY FAR

>> No.5452810

>>5452798
Imagine being this delusional.

>> No.5453305

>>5448423
They don't. There are only a few actual people on this board and none of them are upset by easy games. Sad little millennials/zoomers desperately trying to prove they're hard core simply aren't people.

>> No.5453363

>>5449832
>because easy games are unengaging, which is the greatest sin a video game can commit

you know both mario and sonic are easy as piss, yes?

>> No.5453367

>>5452798
It's not just these days, anon. As a boomer I spent my young videogaming days mainly playing fighting games, arenafps and rts until CS showed up. Quake3 and ut weren't even released with single player campaigns for a reason. nobody really missed it

>> No.5453371

>>5453363
Mario is far more enjoyable holding down the dash button and trying to get through levels as fast as possible.

>> No.5453373

>>5448423
lack of opportunities to make use of the games mechanics to their fullest.

The powers in Simphony of the Night are nice easter eggs and all, but JFC, why couldn't they have spent an extra five minutes to give you a reason to use them!

>> No.5453405

>>5450994
"nigga haven't you ever heard of downloading shit for free"

Sure. I have a large selection of translated ROMS on my flashcart. I try buy stuff, otherwise.

>> No.5453424

>>5448423
Don't even try to tell me the boss rush is easy

>> No.5453612

>>5452798
>What is Breath of the Wild
>What is Hollow Knight
>What is Cuphead
>What is Sekiro
These are all games that piss in the face of your argument but I guess they don't count or something for some reason I'm sure only you can comprehend.

>> No.5453656

>>5452798
Online multiplayer isn't challenging if you're on modafinil, amphetamine, or methyphenidate. But these don't help a damn bit in Castlevania 3.

>> No.5453663

>>5452501
I never said flow requires something to be hard, just that the difficulty should match the skill. I should have clarified i was talking about game mechanics. For example, gambling on a slot machine has no mechanic but people become addicted to it. I wouldn't call that state of addiction "fun" or flow-like, though i guess some people would call it fun. Those trivially easy games that make money are doing so via the same mechanism that makes people use slot machines.
Normal/conventional games often have some degree of that, but also have a gameplay mechanic which would be enjoyable while in a state of flow.

>>5452798
That's totally wrong, multiplayer vs / pvp games are for people into competition, not just "challenge". Challenge and flow speak to why some people enjoy learning and others don't, it's not just about games. If you have the resources/ability to do a new type of maths problem, it can be really fun. Going back to doing pages of addition however isn't fun, it's too boring, and giving third year uni math to a high school student isn't going to be fun, it's going to cause them to disconnect.

>> No.5453745
File: 192 KB, 1920x1200, Witch Cat Soul Eater.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5453745

>>5448423
Because this people is full of nerds that think it's a betrayal to the medium to get any enjoyment out of something that doesn't push them to their limits

>> No.5453801

>>5452481
>games can alleviate boredom in these various ways
>but actually all those ways don't count just my way
What?

>> No.5453812
File: 43 KB, 493x449, 1541117923468.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5453812

At the end of the day, it's nothing but gatekeeping. People who like video games take pride in that they've beaten x hard game, and that they've done it "super easily guys, totally not as hard as everyone says, yeah I blew through Ninja Gaiden the day I got it at age 6 and Ghosts n Goblins is child's play desu" type of stupid attitude.

>> No.5454736

>>5453812
>At the end of the day, it's nothing but shitposting
This is the sad, yet true, reality of nu-/v/

>> No.5454746

>>5453656
Alcohol helps in Castlevania 3.

>> No.5454748

>>5448423
I will never understand why 4chan can't just enjoy games

>> No.5454753

You're gonna hate me for this, but which filter or shader would make the game look like OP's pic? It reminds me of screenshots in magazines.

>> No.5454812

>>5454748
I have some theories based on a recurring kind of sentiment from /v/ posts. The impression that I get is that if you are not playing games with all of your willpower and effort and with your most critical mind, not only are you betraying the Art of video games, you are submitting yourself to a lesser state of existence by lazing your way through video games.

>> No.5454834

>>5454812
Basically they're incels lmao

>> No.5455393

>>5448449
wtf that actually sounds pretty good

>> No.5455427

A game doesn't have to be brutally difficult, but it should be something I have to try to become proficient at. That's what makes it a game. Ever play baseball? You're not the best hitter the moment you step on the mound, and you shouldn't expect to be. You have to learn to play better, and you do that by playing the game.
When a game fails to offer a challenge to someone who's never played it before, it makes me think the devs just weren't confident in the mechanics or simply didn't play it much themselves.
Back in the day, when devs played their games, they tended to get good at them. Which resulted in them making the games more difficult.

Plus, it just feels good to overcome a challenge. There's no joy in being handed a victory, and if there's no point in getting better then there's no point in playing.

>> No.5455448

>>5448423
Is there a list of easy games for retro systems?

>> No.5455472

>>5455427
Maybe some people don't play to be good at baseball and just play it for shits and giggles with friends?

>> No.5456541

>>5455472
No one plays baseball for shits and giggles. They play rounders or listen to seven days of insect noise on the radio.