Why didn't NiGHTS save the Saturn?

[Anonymous No.5420276]

Did stupid fucking idiot children just not understand the beauty and brilliance of it?

[Anonymous No.5420317]

I REALLY like the ost but as a game it's entirely hit or miss. You have to collect enough orbs fast enough and perform enough stunts to get a good enough grade. Whereas something like Sonic encourages you to get to the end however you want, Nights berates you for not twirling enough ribbons or going too slow. The metrics work against the free spirited basis of it. It could really grow on you but a lot of people just tried the flying and then gave it a no thanks because it wasn't sticking with them.

[Anonymous No.5420328]

>>5420276
Gamers as a whole were becoming more and more casual / dumbed down in this era. Look at how N64 removed all the challenge and skill from all major IPs during this time, and they thrived. A lot of what Sega was doing was too experimental for that audience.

[Anonymous No.5420334]

>>5420317
To add to this... I like exploring in 3d if you lose too many orbs than the inteded gameplay. It should be reverse, where you get to fly and get orbs like a supersonic or chaos emerald mini game and the game should be more like gex

[Anonymous No.5420342]

I sure didn't, when I was a kid I remember playing it at a kiosk at a Toys R Us (I think) and being utterly confounded in what I was supposed to be doing

[Anonymous No.5420343]

>>5420334
I thought that was kinda gnarly. Like, wth, there's this entire component of the game that's like a Limbo for when you don't have the flying power, but it's not "part" of the game. I thought that was fun too

[Anonymous No.5420365]

>>5420343
It was fun and had huge potential for something other than a limbo area. Such a waste.

[Anonymous No.5420389]

>>5420365
potential for what man exactly what did you want it to be

there's platforming and shit you can't see unless you walk around and weird stuff to look at and an existentially terrifying alarm clock chasing you around

it's truly a gift

[Anonymous No.5420392]

>>5420389

It was the closest we go to proper 3D platforming in a first party Saturn game outside of the 3D Sonic World section of Sonic Jam

[Anonymous No.5420395]

>>5420392
honestly 3D platformer is not a good genre and there's no reason to compete with Mario when he nailed it that hard.

[Anonymous No.5420397]

>>5420276
Sega would have won if freedom Planet had come out on the saturn

[Anonymous No.5420401]

>>5420395

Tell that to late 90s Rare

[Anonymous No.5420403]

>>5420401
>rare platformers
>good
oi m8 r u avin a giggle

[Anonymous No.5420413]

>>5420389
Have you ever played it? It could have been a dream like 3d puzzle game. The controls and scenery are great, just use the flying bit as a mini game or something. I dont give a fuck about mario 64 in this context. The feel of gameplay and atmosphere are worlds apart and if they chose to pursue making the 3d aspect the main part of the game it could have been an even more amazing game than it is. It had huge potential to be a mario 64 competitor, but the development direction was focused more on a sonic like fast paced game than a surreal nemo in slumberland esqu puzzle platformer it could have easily become.

[Anonymous No.5420427]

>>5420276

Because he looks like a fag. All my friends said so at the time.

[Anonymous No.5420447]

>>5420328
I owned a Saturn and N64 back then and loved playing Mario 64, Wave Race, Nights and Sega Rally altogether.

[Anonymous No.5420449]

>>5420413
I think you're dumb for not appreciating what it is just because you want it to be something else that doesn't even exist

[Anonymous No.5420452]

>>5420449
I think youre dumb for not realizing its potential. I also think youre dumb for putting words in my mouth. I never said i didnt line you fucking retard.

[Anonymous No.5420454]

>>5420452
Like it*

[Anonymous No.5420458]

Nights is pure wankery. Like I could imagine the developers with one dick in hand programming that flying sim. It's barely a game, more of an experience if you want to call it that.

[Anonymous No.5420460]

>>5420458
The game is very momentum-based and controls are pretty damn responsive.
I think extra care was put into the flying programming.

[Anonymous No.5420467]

>>5420452
Except Klonoa and Threads of Fate do exist you dumb turd

The Sega that made the Saturn was the Sega that was famous for arcade games not scotformer garbage and they did a fucking good job until they were fucking assassinated by the shills at SoA

[Anonymous No.5420493]

ST should've made a 2.5D Sanic game with the NiGHTS engine, then released NiGHTS later on.

This shit just isn't a system seller, and I liked the game.

[Anonymous No.5420502]

>>5420467
Im not talking about either of those games, shit for brains, and they dont have a nemo in slumberland feel like nights does. I like nights and i also think they could have done a lot more with a feature in the game that seemed a bit too fleshed out while only being in use for a miniscule portion of gameplay. You obviously dont know what im getting at and are getting triggered over it.

[Anonymous No.5420551]

>>5420276
>>5420458
>all these people who can't get an A rank

[Anonymous No.5420559]

>>5420493
SoA wanted to use parts of the Nights engine for a 3d sonic game that would have been like super Mario Galaxy. SoJ cancelled the project because the programmer that wrote the Nights engine (he also worked on original sonic programming that) didn't want anyone touching his baby.

[Anonymous No.5420587]

>>5420559
the sonic extreme team had even made their own engine by that point but yuji naka only saw the demo using the nights engine

[Anonymous No.5421035]

>>5420328
Not at all. It was the opporsite. The PS1 gained ground because it catered to adults. Sure Sega had stuff like VF and Sega Rally, but PS1 was putting out stuff like Wipeout to appease the club going crowd, Fighting Force (a full 3D beat em had people going nuts at the time), tomb Raider, Resi and shit like that. The audience was getting a taste for other things.

>>5420276
As >>5420317 says, it's subjective. When games were moving towards realism Nights was seen as a regression. It was a score-attack brightly coloured race-style game and people didn't know what to make of it. Those who saw its arcade roots knew exactly what Sonic Team were going for (read: CVG in the UK's review for this). Those who didn't barely acknowledged it. Burning Rangers was an attempt to correct this but again, it stuck with score attack/time attack roots and suffered as a result.

>>5420458
Not all developers work on a game in the same way your dad greets you over breakfast anon.

It was badly limited by the hardware. The changeable music, the Nightopian system, Christmas Nights... If it was released a generation later I would like to say it would be received better but I doubt it because of the initial issue.

[Anonymous No.5421119]

I love NiGHTS and I loved it as a kid, but there's not much about the core gameplay that you can squeeze for a lot of hours. As a kid I would actually spend most of my time in the game walking around as the kids and running from the clock. The construction level in particular was quite fun to jump and get on the top of that tall under construction building and eventually the clock would speed up into such a frenzy that it managed to nab us. It's a great game that holds true to the arcade spirit while being a console exclusive, but at that time I think I was done with obsessing with high scores for the past 10 years and wanted something else. I don't think it was that surprising that I got so into Super Mario 64 and Shenmue a few years later, at that time I just wanted to not be restricted and just wanted to fuck around in an open world, and there was probably a lot of people like me. Weird how now I'm fucking sick to death of open world

[Anonymous No.5421140]

>>5420276
First and foremost because the game is too short and can be completed in like a day at most. Second of all because it’s an arcade style game, and while that gives it a lot of replay value that sort of game wasn’t popular at the time. Third of all because a lot of the level design is fucking shit, especially Stick Canyon. Chip placement is so fucking unconducive to chaining in a lot of the maps.

[Anonymous No.5421165]

Reminder that the Wii NiGHTS is better.

[Anonymous No.5421236]

>>5420403
>dkc
>bad
you have to go back

[Anonymous No.5421251]

>>5420276
NiGHTS blew my mind the first time. What a beautiful game.

[Anonymous No.5421252]

>>5421251
The saturn color palette is magical.

[Anonymous No.5421281]

>>5421252
I've always believed Saturn games, on average, have the best color palettes in video game history. There is a magical feel to it as you say. Sonic Team, especially, following their success with Sonic brought that color palette to 3D and it was stunning. Even the RPG they made, Shining the Holy Ark, has a gorgeous color palette with those crisp blues and greens that stand out so much in their games.

[Anonymous No.5421326]

>>5420342
This. I think Nights' biggest failing is that it just outright refuses to help the player learn how to play. You can pretty easy stumble through the entire first level and still have no fucking clue what the hell you just played, which is a big problem when demos were so common.

[Anonymous No.5421338]

>>5421252
>>5421281
Gonna be a bit pedantic here.. Is it really still considered a pallet when it can display 16 million colours? It's not like the pallet is actually any different than any system that can display 24 bit colour.

The only difference in colour you may see in comparison to another system is the differences in the hardware, video output, developer choices, etc.

[Anonymous No.5421374]

>>5420276
The Saturn was screwed from the get go. One great game isn't going to fix
>$400
>sega CD and 32X fiasco
>stupid ass architecture

[Anonymous No.5421387]

>>5421338
Saturn has 8-bit paletted modes, which runs faster than full color mode. Idk if nights used it or not though.

[Anonymous No.5421393]

>>5420403
Based contrarian

[Anonymous No.5421814]

>>5420342
You people wouldn't survive in the wild.

[Anonymous No.5421881]

>>5421814
Oh shut the fuck up. People were expecting an answer to Super Mario 64. What Sega delivered was a really pretty game but with repetitive and somewhat unintuitive score attack gameplay.

[Anonymous No.5421898]

>>5420276
Because the main character is not as cool as sonic and knuckles.

Plus the saturn cost $400 dollars back then.

[Anonymous No.5421903]

>>5420427
That's a big issue too

[Anonymous No.5421909]

>>5421035
Tomb raider basically sold the ps1

[Anonymous No.5421917]

>>5421909
*also on Saturn and PC

[Anonymous No.5421919]

>>5421909
This. Resident Evil also came out in 1996 and convinced me to get a PS1 instead of waiting for the N64 like I had originally planned.

[Anonymous No.5421949]

>>5421909
>>5421917
Sony ""exlusives"" haven't changed for 20 years lmao

[Anonymous No.5421968]

>>5421909
Crash Bandicoot sold the PS1, Tomb Raider was as much a Saturn game as ps game.

>>5421919
Yeah, RE took PS1 to new sales heights, and then FFVII and then MGS really exploded it. Every one of those games pushed it to a new level of mainstream popularity, but Crash Bandicoot was the game that put PS1 on the map and started moving the system.

[Anonymous No.5422059]

>>5421814
No, that's definitely understandable. The game begins in a 3D explorable area where a giant clock is chasing you. Then it switches to a 2.5 sidescrolling area where you keep repeating the same area over and over until you collect the needed number of orbs (and one rotation after that). It's really hard to make heads or tails of what the point of the game is until you've played it for a bit. Especially if you don't realize it's a score attack going in.

[Anonymous No.5422068]

>>5421236
>DKC
>late 90's Rare
What we have here is a failure to communicate.

[Anonymous No.5422115]

>>5420276
Easy, I didn't have or want a Saturn. Hardly saw games for them in stores, and I certainly didn't want to play as some gay ass purple flying clown thing. Nights was never going to change my mind on the Saturn.

[Anonymous No.5422148]

The Saturn was a fever dream that somehow manifested itself in reality.
I'm glad I had one back then.
I feel bad for people who missed on playing NiGHTS in the mid 90s. It was quite the experience.

[Anonymous No.5422153]

>>5420276
cuz it sucked anal sludge

[Anonymous No.5422156]

>>5422148
>fever dream
That's what a lot of mid/late 90s console gaming feels to me in retrospect. Unique time, but was I really there? Was it another life?

[Anonymous No.5422194]

>>5420334
Have you tried Sonic mode in Christmas Nights? Sounds like something you would enjoy.

[Anonymous No.5422205]

>>5420276
because it's a short piece of shit. it's too fucking short. why don't they just go nuts with it? they did that with Sanic so Nights could use some of the same treatment and just money for development.

on a similar note, there is no Nights 2, right? well, too fucking bad then, OP. it's a crapshot.

[Anonymous No.5422229]

>>5422153
>>5422205
zoom zoom zoom

[Anonymous No.5422249]

>>5421909
>tfw tomb raider was gonna be a saturn exclusive.
Feels bad

[Anonymous No.5422313]

>>5422249
If it were the series probably would have died there. Also it’s good that it was multiplat, the Saturn ran it like shit.

[Anonymous No.5422314]

>>5421919
Resident evil was also on PC and Saturn.

[Anonymous No.5423203]

god, i wanna fuck NiGHTS

[Anonymous No.5423409]

>>5422205
>on a similar note, there is no Nights 2, right?
There is on wii

[Anonymous No.5423437]

>>5422249
If tomb raider was a saturn exclusive the ps1 would of not of been as successful as it was.

[Anonymous No.5423439]

>>5421968
I'd put crash bandicoot with tomb raider as the main selling points of ps1

[Anonymous No.5423440]

It should have had more leisurely flying about, the controls and levels are phenomenal. The stringent scoring reqs kind of kill interest.

[Anonymous No.5423442]

>>5421917
But tomb raider ran better on ps1 most people's pc's in 1997 ran like shit
And the saturn port was not as good

[Anonymous No.5423783]

>>5420276
so was the gameplay supposed to be inspired by echo the dolphin or something?

this game seems like a great idea with poor execution. the design looks really interesting but then the gameplay just seems nauseating

[Anonymous No.5424107]

>>5423783
Unlike ecco, the controls on Nights are quite fast and responsive.
What are you having trouble with?

[Anonymous No.5424431]

>>5421281
Just FYI, Sonic Team didn't make Shining the Holy Ark, or any of the other Shining Games. They were made by 'Sonic! Software Planning', who later became 'Camelot Software Planning'. No relation to 'Sonic Team'.

Shining Force III is probably my favourite Saturn game though, and yes the earthy tones and colours in that game are magical and unforgettable.

[Anonymous No.5424458]

>>5420334
collect orbs before you become nights

[Anonymous No.5424485]

>>5420276
>Rails

[Anonymous No.5425276]

>>5420276
It didn't help because Sega themselves wanted to stop selling the Saturn. There's an interview with Hideki Sato confirming this directly.

You can't make a console a success if you don't even manufacture units to sell.

[Anonymous No.5425289]

>>5421909
I only knew Tomb Raider as a PC game growing up. Crash, MGS, and Final Fantasy VII did a lot more to sell that console than Tomb Raider did.

[Anonymous No.5425368]

>>5420276
That was not the era of the score attack game.
It would have been a fucking huge hit if 80's score culture had retained fully into the mid 90's.

[Anonymous No.5425370]

>>5425368
People liked Nights though.
It was beautiful to look at and a joy to play: even if you didn't know what you were doing.
The main problem is that Saturn wasn't popular in the west, and Japan never cared for Sonic Team as much as the west. But Nights still proved to be popular enough in Japan for a PS2 remake/port and the Wii sequel.
Naka then left Sega. His last game on Wii and WiiU was similar to Nights, but I think it did terrible in sales.

[Anonymous No.5426031]

Nights is better than any 3D Sonic.

[Anonymous No.5428161]

>>5420392
3D platforming is shit anyway. I stopped bothering with even 3D Mario.

[Anonymous No.5428207]

>>5423442
>And the saturn port was not as good
Saturn was the original, not a port.

[Anonymous No.5429305]

>>5420276
It was effectively counter culture in relation to the direction of mainstream gaming in the mid 90s. Side scrolling games weren't as commonplace in the 5th gen since the real hype was based around early 3d games finally being functional enough to enjoy. Furthermore, the emphasis was on longer adventure-style experiences rather than short, extremely replayable score attack style gameplay. So while NiGHTS was incredibly smooth to play, it just was designed in a naturally unpopular way for the era.

[Anonymous No.5430230]

I just don't think there was enough to it. By July 1996, the competition had come out with titles like Resident Evil and Super Mario 64. A seven level score attack game wasn't going to cut it against opposition like that, trippy art style or otherwise.

>>5420328
NiGHTS is awesome, but it's really not a difficult game if you're just talking about seeing the end credits or even the true ending. I doubt the problem was casualization.

>>5429305
Do you think it would've saved the console if the same basic idea had been employed in another era? I can't see an extremely short score attack game serving as a killer app for any generation after the third, although I definitely think it could've done extremely well if released on a console that was already a success.

[Anonymous No.5431189]

I'm playing the ps2 version and the speed of the game seems to be jacked. It's mostly annoying because the sound effects seemed to be cut off. wtf?

[Anonymous No.5431223]

>>5431189
Yeah the PS2 and Steam releases feel different to the Saturn original.

[Anonymous No.5431232]

Imagine being a kid during that console generation, would you seriously want to play NiGHTS over something like mario 64 or sypro? There were much more innovative, impressive, and compelling games. NiGHTS is great arcade fun, and it certainly has style, but I can 100% understand why it didn't help the saturn at all.

[Anonymous No.5431240]

>>5431232
and inb4 mario and spyro weren't out at the time. I know, but by the time kids found out about NiGHTS those games had probably come out or were about to.

[Anonymous No.5431241]

>>5428207
More accurately, Tomb Raider was a multiplat release that came out at the same time on PC, PS1 and Saturn. The Saturn version had the usual issue of lacking transparency effects compared to the PS1 version I think.

[Anonymous No.5431246]

>>5431241
that doesn't change that the saturn version is still the original. They started working on the game as a saturn exclusive in the beginning, then ported everything to the rest. Doesn't mean the saturn version is better though, PC will always be the best for classic tomb raider

[Anonymous No.5431250]

>>5431232
I was 10 or 11 when 5th gen started.
I loved Mario 64, and Nights blew me away when I played it.
Never cared for Spyro.

[Anonymous No.5431267]

>>5431250
that's interesting. At that age I probably wouldn't have cared for NiGHTS at all having something like mario 64 to play. Maybe i was a dumb kid, then again most kids are. Too bad for Sega not thinking about that. The truth is we all know why the saturn failed, way too expensive, barely any games released in the US compared to japan, horrible and I mean horrible marketing tactics, and most importantly not a single game to redeem it and get the average consumer interested after the shitfest that was the 32X and sega CD garbage.

[Anonymous No.5431279]

>>5431232
>sypro
lol what. spyro is trash and not even in the same league as nights

[Anonymous No.5431314]

>>5431267
Nah I think you represent the majority of kids back then. NiGHTS is a really pretty game that looked great when I saw it running on a demo unit at Toys R Us but I had no clue what I was supposed to be doing when I actually tried to play it.

[Anonymous No.5431329]

>>5431267
Plus the segaCD and 32X was still alive and being pushed in many markets at the same time as the Saturn.
That 3D sonic game being developed by SoA might have helped save it. At least we got a version of it way later in the form of Super Mario Galaxy.

[Anonymous No.5431348]

>>5431279
sure thing, that's why everyone remember Nights and Spyro was forgotten.

[Anonymous No.5431352]

>>5431348
yep

[Anonymous No.5431384]

>>5431348
Well, yeah.

[Anonymous No.5431404]

>>5431352
>>5431384
you guys better be kidding otherwise your head is so far up your ass it's not even funny

[Anonymous No.5431408]

>>5431404
spyro is shit tier western game design distilled whereas nights is the pinnacle of japanese focused arcade gameplay distilled.

[Anonymous No.5431421]

>>5431408
>japanese focused arcade gameplay distilled
yeah, too bad barely anyone in the west cared about that when nights came out. Also I've played so many arcade games that shit on Nights. It's good game, but the pinnacle my ass.

[Anonymous No.5431426]

>>5431421

[Anonymous No.5433110]

>watching playthrough of NiGHTS
>guy playing treats it as a time attack and darts straight back to the finish after filling the capsule
I guess NiGHTS just doesn't signal it well but I managed to figure out that I should be going for getting as much shit as possible in the bonus round when I saw there was no points awarded during bonus time for finishing early. The game is fine if you're just trying to finish it but it immediately becomes a much better game when you're aiming for chains and for high scores. Getting 300+ links in Frozen Bell's first act never gets old.

[Anonymous No.5434973]

Playing Nights when it came out felt like a dream come true.