/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.5384107]

Which was the bigger fuck-up?

How could both Nintendo and Sega fuck up so badly and allow Sony to win?

[Anonymous No.5384108]

Sega was obviously the bigger fuckup. The Saturn was too expensive and there was no Sonic game to rival Mario 64.

[Anonymous No.5384110]

>>5384108
This. It put Sega under so hard they had to make their next gen system early.
It ended up being fatal, regardless. They couldn't stand up against both Nintendo and Sony.

[Anonymous No.5384118]

Sega unquestionably. They bungled their launch so bad in a way that pissed off retailers and consumers alike.

Nintendo didn't really fuck up per se. They didn't make any one single disastrous move, but were just clinging to their old ways in regards to developer treatment as if it was still 3rd gen. Sony merely came along being both cheaper and friendlier to work with, thus leaving the other guys in their wake.

[Anonymous No.5384131]

>>5384107
I don't remember even seeing commercials for the Sega Saturn as a kid, or ever seeing one in a store, or even knowing anyone who owned one. Ironically, the first and last time I heard the name "Sega Saturn" during that time period was in an old Nintendo Power VHS tape that advertised Star Fox 64, when they say you can't play SF64 on Sega Saturn. So I'd say Sega fucked up way more than Nintendo.

[Anonymous No.5384159]

>>5384107
Fuck your shitty console war threads you autistic agitator. Hide and carry on.

[Anonymous No.5384165]

Obviously Nintendo. Imagine throwing away a decade of near-monopoly in Japan to end up dead last.

[Anonymous No.5384168]

>>5384107
Saturn had no sonic games on release
It wasn't marketed right.

Both Nintendo and saturn were charging game publishers more money then Sony.

The PlayStation was highly profitable for game publishers.

[Anonymous No.5384169]

N64 was only more successful than Saturn in America.

Saturn was only more successful than N64 in Japan.

Ergo, since Japan > America, N64 was the bigger failure.

[Anonymous No.5384171]

>>5384169
>Saturn was only more successful than N64 in Japan.
It sold more systems, but N64 sold more software.
Anyway I don't think any of them were actual failures. They just couldn't compete with Sony's multinational corporation dick forcing their way through the industry.

[Anonymous No.5384173]

>>5384131
They had sega saturn commercials on MTV they were stupid avant garde art fat shit.

Not what the sega audiences wanted.

[Anonymous No.5384178]

>>5384171
Well the THQ wrestling games for N64 were awesome.

Also N64 was the only system at the time that could play mk4

[Anonymous No.5384182]

>>5384107
How can OP fuck up this badly and let us win

[Anonymous No.5384193]

>>5384171
N64 also had a much smaller library, with very long periods of drought.
Saturn was arguably the best way to play arcade games at home back in the '90s.

[Anonymous No.5384213]

>>5384159
This

[Anonymous No.5384215]

>>5384193
Yeah although popular games on N64 differed from Japan and the west. For example, I'm not sure if Goldeneye was really that popular in Japan, but japan-only games like Shiren 2 were very popular.
Also some games that got lukewarm reception in the west were big in Japan, like Yoshi's Story and Kirby Crystal Shards.
Saturn had the best arcade ports, as well as many popular VN-type games, but no Saturn game managed to break records like Mario 64 or OOT, with the exception of Virtua fighter 2 that was a phenomenon in Japan.

[Anonymous No.5384226]

>>5384107
If you think they were fuck ups you don't know shit about video games.

[Anonymous No.5384236]

>>5384226
The Saturn launch was so botched that it caused the Dreamcast to fail too.

[Anonymous No.5384270]

>>5384107
Saturn was utterly disastrous for Sega. Ridiculously convoluted architecture, high bill of materials, that insane launch non-strategy, Stolar's vicious hatred of 2D games... You name it, they fucked it up.

N64 was a great design, marred by Nintendo's cheapskateness and inflexibility. It was supposed to originally have a full 8 MB RAM, but Yamauchi wanted to nickel and dime the users, which led to the Expansion Pak. However, the pak only ran at around 1/2 to 2/3rds main bus frequency, so you had to choose between lower resolution but higher fps, or higher resolution with low fps. Ironically, the Saturn's memory cartridge didn't have that issue. And the game cartridges were a holdover from when they rent-seeked the game developers, back in the NES/SNES days. They spectacularly backfired, when users proved they were unfazed by long load times (not least because Sony pushed hard in Europe, where people still remembered the long loading times from cassette drives back in the C64 era).

[Anonymous No.5384321]

only a retarded sega widow would call a console with so many legendery games like zelda oot, zelda mm, mario kart 64, mario 64, paper mario, goldeneye, blast corps, star fox, bajo kazzoe, banjo tooie, perfect dark, pokemon stadium, stadium 2, pokemon snap, a fuck-up.
Specially when compared to overpriced piece of shit console with zero games from a company that died in the gutter.

[Anonymous No.5384325]

>>5384226
Sure, they weren't as big of failures as say, the Jaguar or 3DO, but they failed hard enough to dethrone both companies which they never really recovered from.

[Anonymous No.5384328]

>>5384107
I still think N64>PS1, even the library. And I haven't owned a Nintendo console since GameCube.

[Anonymous No.5384335]

Saturn was a terrible failure, but i still think a big part of it, was because no one would trust a shitty company after two monumental fuck-ups that were sega-cd and 32x.
And guess what, people were right to not trust it.

[Anonymous No.5384337]

>>5384321
>most of those games
>legendary
This is your brain on Shigeru Miyamoto's semen.

[Anonymous No.5384350]

>>5384325
>dethrone both companies which they never really recovered from.
Wii was the top selling system of its generation. Switch was the top selling system of 2018. The N64 nor the Saturn were failures. However, the Marketing & release for the saturn killed consumer confidence in the brand. Sega fucked themselves by screwing over their fans who migrated to Sony. Nintendo will always sell hardware, Sega will not. They spent the 80s-90s riding the success of their arcade devices, and did not innovate further.

[Anonymous No.5384351]

>>5384107
Nintendo actually played it smart. It was Sega that fucked things up more. Had they not screwed things up so badly a lot of those PS1 sales would have went to the Saturn and you would have seen a much more even gen with all three being competitive. In fact had Sega actually managed themselves well and knocked it way out with the Saturn Sony probably wouldn't have even got anywhere as big with consoles as they got. They might have made a PS2 at most but had that flopped due to Sega and Nintendo dominance over them they would have been the ones to pull out.

The Saturn and Dreamcast failure is almost entirely Sega's own fault.

[Anonymous No.5384369]

>>5384350
>Wii was the top selling system of its generation.
Only because they started pandering to normalfags. Their third-party support and even their own games are nowhere near as good as they were in the NES and SNES days, before Sony completely assfucked them.

[Anonymous No.5384397]

>>5384337
>shittalking legendary games out of spite
this is your brain when you're a retarded sega widow

[Anonymous No.5384401]

>>5384369
>normalfags
You mean people? As opposed to retarded scumbags like you?

[Anonymous No.5384403]

>>5384321
Could you possibly expand your vocabulary past the words "widow" and "gutter"? Like if all you're gonna do is talk shit and bait at least be creative. Every single thread that has anything to do with Sega is full of your shitty fanboy comments.
>>5384107
Getting back on topic, the Saturn is the bigger failure of the two, thanks to it's high price, relative lack of killer apps (in the west at least, and taking into consideration the market demand at the time) and botched launch, let alone the internal war between America and Japan that led to Tom Kalinske (the man responsible for Sega's extreme success in the west) resigning. The only original Sonic game on Saturn is Sonic R, a game that you either love or hate, which didn't hold a candle to any of the mascot racers on N64 and PSX. Imagine if the N64 released without a Mario game, just ports of the NES games in a compilation, a slightly better looking version of SMW, and a version of Mario Kart 64 with 5 tracks and half as many characters with wonky controls. The best thing Saturn had going for it was very high quality arcade ports, which the demand for was waning thanks to the rise of longer, story driven titles.
The N64's biggest flop was the cartridge format, which led to the loss of 3rd party developers like Square because the CD format offered so much more. Cartridges offered little to no load times, but load times really weren't a big deal to the average consumer when the trade off of not using them was for things like CD quality music and FMVs which the industry was crazy for.

[Anonymous No.5384409]

>>5384403
>/vr/ is two people, me and you
autist

[Anonymous No.5384410]

>>5384369
>Their third-party support and even their own games are nowhere near as good
Irrelevant. It was the top selling system of its generation. Excuses and feelings don't change facts.

[Anonymous No.5384419]

>>5384401
Sorry I triggered you sweetie, it's OK that you liked Nintendogs and Wii Fit. Some of us prefer real games, though.

[Anonymous No.5384420]

>>5384410
And it lasted entirely 1 whole generation before Nintendo went back to selling like shit. Wow, what an amazing recovery!

[Anonymous No.5384424]

>>5384419
get back to tumblr, fagit.
>real games
lol snowflake autist

[Anonymous No.5384431]

>>5384409
I highly doubt there's very many people on /vr/ going around calling people sega widows and constantly saying that sega died in the gutter.

[Anonymous No.5384437]

>>5384424
>pretending he's a part of the mainstream
>didn't get the ironic usage of trannyspeak

Honestly you're the worst troll /vr/'s had in a while, go spam sega widow some more, though.

[Anonymous No.5384440]

>>5384431
you can doubt, but that only makes you more autistc.

[Anonymous No.5384443]

>>5384440
Let's be real here, to post on /vr/ we're all probably somewhere on the spectrum

[Anonymous No.5384446]

>>5384443
>projecting this hard
autist

[Anonymous No.5384456]

>>5384107
Saturn. Nintendo eventually bounced back.

[Anonymous No.5384473]

>>5384420
>1 whole generation
Cope more. Nes, Snes, Wii outsold any competition. The switch may very well be a top seller before it is all said and done.

[Anonymous No.5384486]

>>5384473
How much stock do you have invested in Nintendy, anon?

[Anonymous No.5384489]

>>5384446
>analyzing people over the internet
autist

[Anonymous No.5384493]

>>5384489
>cant refute argument
>shitpost
bluepilled autist

[Anonymous No.5384503]

Autism is a complex neurobehavioral condition that includes impairments in social interaction and developmental language and communication skills combined with rigid, repetitive behaviors. Because of the range of symptoms, this condition is now called autism spectrum disorder (ASD). It covers a large spectrum of symptoms, skills, and levels of impairment. ASD ranges in severity from a handicap that somewhat limits an otherwise normal life to a devastating disability that may require institutional care.

[Anonymous No.5384506]

>>5384493
>calls someone out on shitposting when they themselves are getting called out for shitposting
go back to /v/

[Anonymous No.5384514]

>>5384486
>How much stock do you have invested in Nintendy, anon?
Cope more my friend. Nintendo outsells the competition in most of your contrived console wars. If me stating facts upsets you, you need to take a real look at your emotional investment in consumer goods and brand names.

[Anonymous No.5384519]

>>5384506
>using "call out" in a sentence
imagine the smell

[Anonymous No.5384542]

>>5384519
At least I contributed to the thread, all you did was fellate nintendo's dick while shitting on sega. Picking sides in a console war that ended 20 years ago is perhaps the most manchild-like thing one can do, there's obviously pros and cons of each side and experiences that can only be had on each respective system.

[Anonymous No.5384545]

>>5384107
Saturn.
N64 sold better, and has a bigger cult following in comparison.

[Anonymous No.5384551]

>>5384542
>contributing to a thread
autist

[Anonymous No.5384554]

>>5384551
based and redpilled

[Anonymous No.5384568]

>>5384321
Better to be a Sega Widow than a Nintendrone. How's the onions latte?

[Anonymous No.5384571]

>>5384568
Im fine here playing my current gen nintendo console. How about you, sega widow?
Oh, my bad, sega died in the gutter long ago.

[Anonymous No.5384576]

>>5384571
>Playing current gen games

[Anonymous No.5384581]

OBSESSED SEGA WIDOW POSTER

[Anonymous No.5384583]

>>5384576
>not even having the option to play a current gen console
lol sega widows

[Anonymous No.5384586]

is like the sega widow poster knows deep down that nintendo games arent that good.

[Anonymous No.5384595]

>>5384583
Have fun with your endless sequels and rehashes, gaming died in the gutter long ago

[Anonymous No.5384596]

I think N64 was the bigger fuckup simply because if they'd released more adult games it could have been one of the best consoles of all time

[Anonymous No.5384602]

N64. If only for the reason that it proved to it's executives that they didn't have to try.

[Anonymous No.5384654]

>>5384595
no, that happened to sega only.

[Anonymous No.5384673]

Nintendo was the bigger screw-up in the context of things, Sega dying is one thing, Nintendo letting Sony get away would have completely changed the land-scape, even to today.

If Nintendo had just went CD and threw money at Square, the N64 would have won. A ton of developers went with Sony after Square jumped ship, they were THE big Japanese dev.

[St. Plaza !PHANTOM2V2 No.5384674]

test

[Anonymous No.5384835]

>>5384328
you must have been a baby when those consoles came out

[Anonymous No.5384857]

>>5384107
You know how Nintendo royally fucked up with the Wii U's marketing? The Saturn was that, it was a huge factor in forcing Sega to stop making consoles and go third party.

[Anonymous No.5384978]

>>5384226
>the console that caused sega to leave the console market
>not a fuckup

[Anonymous No.5385003]

>>5384857
Honestly I'm still not clear what went wrong with the Wii U. It just seemed like the thunder didn't strike for it and the system was DOA.

[Anonymous No.5385038]

Troll thread is troll.

Mario 64 in itself, a launch title albeit not included in the console itself sold almost double the copies the Saturn as a whole did.

Considering the generation and competition, I’d say the N64 was actually a reasonable comercial success.

[Anonymous No.5385045]

>>5385038
Doesn't matter how many retarded burgers bought bing bing wahoo, the fact of the matter is Saturn simply has a more diverse and interesting library than N64's.

[Anonymous No.5385047]

>>5384107
The Saturn had it worse, didn't it?

[Anonymous No.5385054]

>>5385045
>this retarded
sega widows are the worst kind of degenerates

[Anonymous No.5385057]

>>5385054
Obsessing over "sega widows" is perhaps the most autistic thing I have seen on this board, and that's saying something

[Anonymous No.5385058]

>>5385045
So much diverse and interesting that a SINGLE GAME sold more than the entire console. Ok. The general population must have overlooked somthing you didn’t.

[Anonymous No.5385064]

>>5384169
>Ergo, since Japan > America,
This was no longer the case by '95 as the Japanese economy had burst and was in a massive recession. The NA market was much more important by that point and continued to remain so.

[Anonymous No.5385068]

We need to talk about the 32X.

This thing is what killed peoples confidence in Sega and they never recovered. Imagine, almost a year of hype for this new add-on only for it to be killed within the first few months of its life. The tech demos for the 32X showed that it could handle 3D graphics very well, but the technology was so poorly understood. Then Sega of japan told America to drop support for the 32X. Oh, but you'll be able to buy this new thing called the Saturn. It's not backwards-compatible like the 32X and can't play Sega CD games.

And if you did buy Sega CD and 32X, it's got a bigger footprint than a VCR, and you need 3 power sockets, an aux cable that sticks out the front of the Genesis to mix the audio for it and the Sega CD, and a video cable to mix the video between the Genesis and the 32X.

Sega took too many unnecessary risks. Splitting development between 2 regions and 2 systems, dividing the market in the US between the 32X and the Saturn.

[Anonymous No.5385079]

>>5384171
I agree.

/r/sandersforpresident

[Anonymous No.5385086]

>>5384107
I love SEGA but what the fuck were they thinking post Genesis?

lets support the:
>master system
>Genesis
>CD
>32X
>Saturn
>game gear
all at the same time, so that way we can frustrate developers and customers alike so they have no idea if they should get the new hardware or not, or which new hardware to get. Because we will release new expensive hardware almost yearly.

What could possibly go wrong? It’s not like people will stop trusting us or something.

[Anonymous No.5385091]

>>5384131
Walmart and other superstores in America got pissed at SEGA for dropping the Saturn out of seemingly nowhere, they had to basically beg Walmart to stock it.

[Anonymous No.5385112]

>>5384236
SEGA was stuck making a really bad choice post Saturn. Either:

A) stick with the Saturn which is at least moderately popular in Japan and continue to be non existent outside Japan.

or

B) release Dreamcast and hope it will become popular in the west but potentially piss off the Japanese base which are your only customers at this point.

That is a sucky decision, but they had to do something.

[Anonymous No.5385138]

>>5385045
>Saturn simply has a more diverse and interesting library
The library is irrelevant when it doesn't sell.

[Anonymous No.5385159]

>>5385057
>projecting
retarded and bluepilled

[Anonymous No.5385160]

> The SGI-based system design that ended up in the Nintendo 64 was originally offered to Tom Kalinske, then CEO of Sega of America by James H. Clark, founder of Silicon Graphics. SGI had recently bought out MIPS Technologies and the two companies had worked together to create a low-cost CPU/3D GPU combo that they thought would be ideal for the console market. A hardware team from Sega of Japan was sent to evaluate the chip’s capabilities and they found some faults which MIPS subsequently solved. However, Sega of Japan ultimately decided against SGI’s design.

https://www.unseen64.net/2008/04/04/project-reality-nintendo-ultra-64-tech-demos/

Yeah, the people at Silicon Graphics gave Sega od Amer5ica first dibs on what would basically be the prototype for the N64. Sega of japan turned it down because they like the hardware. Or maybe because they already had a team making the Saturn and had contracts written up with Hitachi and such? So Silicon Graphics went to Nintendo it became the Nintendo 64. Nintendo probably jumped on the hardware because they were already working with Silicon Graphics workstations.

[Anonymous No.5385164]

> The SGI-based system design that ended up in the Nintendo 64 was originally offered to Tom Kalinske, then CEO of Sega of America by James H. Clark, founder of Silicon Graphics. SGI had recently bought out MIPS Technologies and the two companies had worked together to create a low-cost CPU/3D GPU combo that they thought would be ideal for the console market. A hardware team from Sega of Japan was sent to evaluate the chip’s capabilities and they found some faults which MIPS subsequently solved. However, Sega of Japan ultimately decided against SGI’s design.

https://www.unseen64.net/2008/04/04/project-reality-nintendo-ultra-64-tech-demos/

Yeah, the people at Silicon Graphics gave Sega of America first dibs on what would basically be the prototype for the N64. Sega of japan turned it down because they like the hardware. Or maybe because they already had a team making the Saturn and had contracts written up with Hitachi and such? So Silicon Graphics went to Nintendo it became the Nintendo 64. Nintendo probably jumped on the hardware because they were already working with Silicon Graphics workstations.

[Anonymous No.5385165]

>>5385003
Shitty launch titles, there was no "must play" title that came out with the console launch. Basically every other Nintendo console had a massive game at or near launch to help boost sales except for the Wii U.

[Anonymous No.5385182]

While the Saturn was the bigger fuck-up on paper, you have to realize that Sega was essentially a one-hit wonder. The Genesis got the scraps while Nintendo scored all the big hitters. Because of the that, the N64 was the larger flop by virtue of Nintendo effectively giving Sony the ENTIRE industry that they effectively cultivated, on a gray cartridge. Something that even to this day, Nintendo has been unable to recoup.

[Anonymous No.5385189]

>>5384178

[Anonymous No.5385205]

>>5385182
Saturn had the opportunity to be as successful if not moreso than PS1, it's just the feud between SoJ and SoA ruined that chance.

[Anonymous No.5385252]

>>5384107
Development costs skyrocketed with 3D and porting between massively disparate hardware was impracticable for most studios, so clearly there could only be one winner.

[Anonymous No.5385380]

>>5385045
>This delusion.

[Anonymous No.5385383]

>>5384835
>Le grown up man who likes le mature 90's games!


I think the same as him, even if the N64 didn't have as much games as the ps1, the few it had were better, made me feel better with friends and also had a bigger impact in the industry than gayfag rpg's with cutscenes.

[Anonymous No.5385637]

>>5384328
>he likes GameCube
Yikes!

[Anonymous No.5385973]

>>5384107
As much as I hate the N64, Sega obviously fucked up more, because they already fucked up beforehand wtih the add on and shit.

[Anonymous No.5385980]

The N64 was successful for a normal console, it sold 33 million while the original xbox only sold 24 million and the gamecube only sold 22 million (Saturn 9.2 million). It was only unsuccessful in how Nintendo went from dominating the market to a quarter market share. As Phil Swift would say "that's a lot of damage".

[Anonymous No.5385987]

>>5385980
33 million is not the picture of success.

[Anonymous No.5386013]

>>5385637
He didn't even say he liked the gamecube in that post. But I do, FITE ME FAGGOT.

[Anonymous No.5386029]

>>5386013
I can't think of more than 10 Gamecube games that I would return to in current year and still enjoy.

[Anonymous No.5386036]

>>5386029
There are at least ten fun multi-player games. 2 metroid games, 2 star wars games, 2 zelda games, 2 pikmin games, final fantasy crystal chronicles, beyond good and evil, eternal darkness have all held up pretty well.

[Anonymous No.5386159]

>>5384335
Sega CD was not a fuck up.it just was not affordable and it's good games were not hyped.

The 32x could of never existed and sega would of been better off.

[Anonymous No.5386164]

>>5385164
I think the mk4 arcade machine is based on the same hardware as the N64 just more advanced.

[Anonymous No.5386197]

The N64 had a niche: it was the party game console. I have no clue what the Saturn's main draw is supposed to be.

[Anonymous No.5386205]

>>5385068
The 32X either should have been released earlier, as a stand-alone console to compete directly with the SNES (which the elderly Genesis only could do to a limited degree), or cancelled outright. Nobody wanted a giant power-hogging monstruosity in their living room. The Sega CD should've been Genesis's only add-on.

[Anonymous No.5386209]

>>5386197
N64 is also good for Racing games and wrestling games.
Saturn's niche is good arcade ports, much better than on ps

[Anonymous No.5386216]

>>5385086
There was a Tom Kalinske interview in the mid-00s, where he admitted that they had something like 8 systems going into '95 (MS, MD, CD. 32X, the upcoming Saturn, GG, Nomad and one I'm forgetting about).
That is a recipe for utter fucking disaster.

[Anonymous No.5386224]

>>5384107
Demonstrably Sega considering they haven't been in the console battle for a long time

But special marks for N64 designing the most retarded controller that people still ardently defend. Why bother doing anything right when faggots will defend your fuckups with blood, sweat and tears?

[Anonymous No.5386294]

N64 has like 5-6 really really good games, 10-12 okeish games and then it's literally shovelware central.

Saturn top 10 is usually a lot worse than N64's but then you have tons and tons of 7/10 titles that are just fun.

[Anonymous No.5386328]

>>5386294
both systems' good games combined number less than you could count on both hands. the 5th gen was the dark ages of home console gaming, thank god the handheld and pc markets existed.

[Anonymous No.5386359]

>>5384107
nintendo didn't realize that in the west when people get older they don't really want to play with pixies, fairies, stars and mushrooms. sorry but a grandpa wearing a panda sweater is not common here

[Anonymous No.5386370]

>>5385637
The GameCube is literally the biggest pleb filter in gaming history. This is not even debatable. Truly a patrician console.

[Anonymous No.5386373]

>>5386359
The N64 was far more popular in the US than Japan, you drooling retard.

[Anonymous No.5386454]

>>5386370
Cube was trash, only delusional hardcore nintenyearolds could defend that miserable failure.

[Anonymous No.5386468]

>>5384107
The saturn was dead in Japan by 1999, with less than 20 games released that year
>but the dreamcast came out!!

that didn't stop the famicom

[Anonymous No.5386471]

>>5384107
Well I mean the fact that the Saturn was pretty much Sega's Wii U in that they had to release the next console ASAP - that.

[Anonymous No.5386493]

>>5386454
I’ll truly never get the hate for the GC. With the GameCube Nintendo did practically everything people are bitching and moaning for them to do now:

>Solid, decently powerful hardware that was easy to develop for
>Made strides to make ammends with third parties
>Launched a bunch of new IP and >brought back sone old favorites in interesting ways
>Greatly expanded library compared to the N64 including a lot more adult oriented games
>Made exclusive deals with some heavy hitter publishers

GameCube era Nintendo is so criminally under-appreciated. It’s insane to me.

[Anonymous No.5386496]

>>5386493
Oh I forgot incredible sequels to franchises that began on the N64, most notably TTYD and Smash Bros.

[Anonymous No.5386509]

>>5386493
>>5386496
>the hate
It's shitposting
Nothing more, nothing less
>inb4 some generic greentext reply trying to debunk my crazy argument

You're on 4chan, if it's vitriol it's shitposting and if it's shitposting, it's just negativity for negativity's sake

I don't think you should expect an actual discussion out of this

[Anonymous No.5386514]

>>5386509
A lot of people on /v/ and /vr/ do legitimately hate the GC but I generally just assume they’re European.

[Anonymous No.5386515]

>>5386496
Smash Bros is great but it should have been on the Playstation.

[Anonymous No.5386517]

>>5386164
>I think the mk4 arcade machine is based on the same hardware as the N64 just more advanced.

Nah, it was not based on the N64 hardware at all. Mortal Kombat 4 arcade machine uses the Midway Zeus Hardware. It has a Texas Instruments 32bit processor and an FPGA graphics chip. The N64 has a 64bit MIPS R4300i CPU and the MIPS Reality Coprocessor.

[Anonymous No.5386526]

>>5386515
Sony is good at many things but copying what works for Nintendo certainly isn’t one of them. PlayStation All-Stars and the PS Classic instantly come to mind.

[Anonymous No.5386527]

>>5386514
>people on /v/ and /vr/
lol
>European
double lol

I don't know, I always account that kind of 'hatred' with pettiness and bitterness as general fixtures to that person. It's just a console, play the one you like and ignore the one you don't. Except we're on 4chan, which is basically Facebook in that talking about things is more important than actually ever doing that thing, so we have people posting in retro console threads that have never played a single minute on that console.

But I also usually just write off most of 4chan as emotionally underdeveloped and in need of an extra hug.

[Anonymous No.5386531]

>>5386496
Melee was the only good sequel. The 3D Zeldas sucked compared to OoT/MM, the Mario platformer sucked compared to 64, the Metroids sucked compared to Super, the sequels to EAD's N64 racing games sucked, Jungle Beat sucked compared to DKC1-3 even if the bongo gimmick was funny, Assault sucked compared to 64, F-Zero GX sucked compared to X, the Mario Parties sucked compared to N64's, TTYD sucked compared to PM, no Kirby sidescroller, Animal Crossing and Doshin were just N64 ports, and so on.

[Anonymous No.5386539]

>>5386531
Even if you hate all that stuff, we’ll still most likely never see the return of the Nintendo that took a big risk on making Eternal Darkness or the ‘Capcom 5’ deal ever again sadly. At the very least, GameCube era Nintendo was still taking risks and coming up with interesting ideas.

[Anonymous No.5386553]

>>5386493
>GameCube era Nintendo is so criminally under-appreciated. It’s insane to me.

oh fuck's sake my guy, are you ignoring the mini-discs?

plenty of games straight up cannot fit on them

[Anonymous No.5386564]

>>5386553
The mini discs and lack of DVD support were admittedly missteps but I’ll still argue that Nintendo took a lot of steps to make up for their major mistakes with the N64.

[Anonymous No.5386591]

>>5386564
>The mini discs and lack of DVD support were admittedly missteps but I’ll still argue that Nintendo took a lot of steps to make up for their major mistakes with the N64

The Nintendo Wii is basically just a turbo charged GameCube with a 1.5x speed increases on the CPU and GPU and 88MB of collective RAM instead of 44MB. The Wii was the GameCube rebranded with a motion control gimmick. The Wii had GameCube controller ports and could read mini discs. The GameCube itself was a flop. But the GameCube hardware had good success as the Wii. The Wii-U uses a tri-core version of the IBM PowerPC CPU core found in the Wii, but each core is clocked twice the speed. Also the Wii-U has a Radeon 54XX DX10 compliant GPU. Which makes it quite a bit different hardware, but used the Wii name like it was a mild upgrade.

[Anonymous No.5386602]

>>5386591
It would’ve been interesting to see how the GC would have done if Nintendo had used full sized large capacity discs. The hardware itself was pretty good and seemingly would’ve been capable of running most popular third party multiplats.

[Anonymous No.5386610]

>>5386602
How many games even used all the space on those stupid things? Were there any multi-disc GC games?

[Anonymous No.5386619]

>>5386610
There were a few. REmake, Twin Snakes and Tales of Symphonia were 2 disc games. Most third party games probably were able to fit onto a single GC disc but suffered from compressed, lower resolution cutscenes compared to the PS2/Xbox versions.

[Anonymous No.5386629]

>>5386610
>How many games even used all the space on those stupid things? Were there any multi-disc GC games?

The GameCube discs held 1.5GB of Data. Plus Nintendo apparently had some good compression tools that got more out of the disc. A Typical DVD discs holds 4.7GB or 8.54GB double density. The Dreamcast used 1GB GDROM discs.

The Nintendo Mini Discs were not that bad. They could still be constricting, but nowhere near as bad as the N64 was to CD. And there are multi-disc GameCube releases. The discs didn't cost Nintendo much to press.

[Anonymous No.5386634]

>>5386629
The fact that Melee is under a gigabyte is crazy to me.

[Anonymous No.5386649]

>>5386634
>The fact that Melee is under a gigabyte is crazy to me.

Mario 64 on the N64 is less than 8MB's in size, and yet the game contains more content than so many PS1 games. The largest CD based games (PS1, Saturn, 3DO) were 640MB. But there were many games released for those consoles that would only fill up maybe 100MB or less. The Largest N64 cartridge is 64MB. Resident Evil 2 on the N64 used some crazy compression. The PS1 RE2 is a two disc game. Granted both discs had a lot of repeating data. But still.

Nintendo apparently developed some good compression tools with the N64 that carried over to the GameCube.

[Anonymous No.5386668]

Really Sony's biggest attraction was that they were the hungry new guy. Both Nintendo (with sneering at the CD format) and Sega (sneering at 3D) were trying to push their own ideas to consumers, not listening to what the customer wanted. Add to that they didn't have a lot of pull to bully publishers... so they needed cheap licenses... which also meant the often forgotten fact that there's a mountain of shovelware garbage that was about half of the PSX's library.

[Anonymous No.5386670]

>>5386668
>sega
>sneering at 3D
u wot

[Anonymous No.5386676]

>>5386670
the arcade division didn't work on the design of the saturn

[Anonymous No.5386679]

>>5386670
Yeah VF2 was awesome but you’re forgetting how shitty the Saturn’s launch window 3D games were.

[Anonymous No.5386689]

>>5386205
>elderly Genesis couldn't compete with the SNES

See, this is why zoomers deserve to be gassed. The fact that the newer console could barely keep neck and neck with the Genesis speaks more to Nintendo's fuckups than Sega's.

[Anonymous No.5386706]

>>5386668
stop bullshitting, SEGA was a frontrunner of 3D in the arcade, together with Namco.

[Anonymous No.5386727]

>>5386668
>Really Sony's biggest attraction was that they were the hungry new guy.

I think Sony had the most balanced console design of that generation. It was easy for developers to pick up and was quite capable at rendering polygons. The PS1 uses a single MIPS RISC CPU R3000A at 33MHZ and the graphics core has its own 3D transformation engine for rendering triangles. The PS1 generated bare-basic polygons with no z-buffering or vertices perspective correction. It just spat out polygons at a reasonable good speed. The N64 uses a MIPS based 64bit R4300i RISC CPU at 93MHz and the Reality Display Processor that runs at 62MHz. The Reality Display Processor was based on SGI's Reality Engine, found in their workstations. The N64 3D pipeline added perspective correction, texture filtering, aliasing and other tricks. But the N64 has some bottlenecks. Also, the CPU handles the audio too, with its own audio engine.

The Sega Saturn uses a raster based sprite rendering engine that can manipulate sprites in 3D using vertices placement. It is an extension on Sega's sprite scaling/ sprite handling engine. The system can do 3D, but it's not optimised for it in the same way that the PS1 is.

[Anonymous No.5386729]

>>5386670
>>5386706
Congrats on being myopic retards. We're not talking about arcades, we're talking about the Saturn. A console designed to be a 2D graphics powerhouse... when the gaming public wanted 3D. Game developers then had to fight an uphill battle against Sony.

[Anonymous No.5386779]

>>5386729
Fuck you asshole.

[Anonymous No.5386789]

>>5386729
You're the retard for falling for the meme that the Saturn was ever intended to be for 2D only. It was always meant to be good at both 3D and 2D from the start.

[Anonymous No.5386795]

>>5386789
That's highly unlikely given that the distorted sprites feature on the VDP1 looks exactly how you'd hack on 3d support for what is essentially a bitmap renderer. What evidence do you have to support your claim?

[Anonymous No.5386921]

Lobotomy's Sega Saturn port of Quake vs Midway's N64 Quake port:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHHzyvCW_Ls

You have to give some credit for the worst Lobotomy did with Quake on the Saturn. Really cool showpiece on what the hardware can do with Quads. It still runs at a slower framerate than the N64 game, and has chopped up textures. I would never recommend getting a Saturn for Quake though. PowerSlave/ Exhumed is a much better single player game.

Here's Hexen N64 vs Hexen Sega Saturn:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR8Uv7i4GSE

The Saturn really wasn't impressing critics back in the way with its 3D graphics. It really really is better known for its 2D games, but the majority of those games were exclusive to Japan.

[Anonymous No.5386923]

>>5386729
Retards btfo

[Anonymous No.5386927]

>>5384107
I think this is missing context, the Saturn came after the 32X and Mega CD, and sent sega on a death spiral they never really recovered from. The N64 had some really successful software and kept the company profitable along with the gameboy color, even if it couldn't keep up with the Playstation. It was impressive how nintendo managed to remain profitable even with a cartridge console in the CD era.

[Anonymous No.5387337]

>>5384171
>It sold more systems, but N64 sold more software.
A ton of people bought a Saturn, especially early on, because Virtua Fighter was all the rage and was a killer app. I imagine a lot of them migrated to PlayStation when Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy came out on it.

[Anonymous No.5387339]

>>5386921
Saturn is also almost 2 years older than N64. Of course it's going to have worse 3D power than it, same with the PSX.

[Anonymous No.5387357]

>>5384431
lol he's probably the same guy who started the sega system meme

[Anonymous No.5387554]

>>5384168
>Saturn had no sonic games on release

Saturn had no *units for sale* on release. They had 30k units stocked in two store chains. Which pissed off retailers because they thought Sega was shafting them, so they stopped carrying all Sega consoles completely.

>>5384169
>Saturn was only more successful than N64 in Japan.

For one year. Also, Hideki Sato stated in an interview that they did everything they could to prevent the Saturn from selling more consoles, because it generated so much loss.

[Anonymous No.5387558]

>>5384270
>Ironically, the Saturn's memory cartridge didn't have that issue.

The Satun ram cart was 16bit, and half of its work RAM was also 16bit. The Saturn had 1mbyte 32bit ram only.

[Anonymous No.5387563]

>>5385058
>So much diverse and interesting that a SINGLE GAME sold more than the entire console.

That's like saying shit tastes great because 6 billion houseflies can't be wrong.

[Anonymous No.5387568]

>>5387357
Haha the what?

[Anonymous No.5387571]

>>5385182
>The Genesis got the scraps while Nintendo scored all the big hitters.

The only big hitters Nintendo scored were RPGs.

A bigger problem was that Sega considered third parties as direct enemies on the market, so they did not encourage them. They were always first and foremost a software company, and third parties cut into their software sales directly. Saturn alone had like 160 games for it in Japan, the most productive third party was I think Capcom and even they didn't break 50.

[Anonymous No.5387576]

>>5386493
>GameCube era Nintendo is so criminally under-appreciated.

That's because the PS2 was literally the best console ever made, library wise, while the Xbox was a HTPC+Emulator box, that also had every multiplat game looking 10x better.

GC had... that Star Wars game by Factor 5, that really stood out for everyone. And the English port of Ikaruga.

[Anonymous No.5387581]

>>5386634
>The fact that Melee is under a gigabyte is crazy to me.

It didn't have 3 hours of 1080p FMVs and uncompressed audio voice acting in 8 languages on the disc.

[Anonymous No.5387847]

>>5387576
The PS2 never particularly clicked with me I guess. Out of the sixth gen consoles, I played my GameCube the most with Xbox second. The PS2 was a Metal Gear Solid machine for me with a few other exclusives here and there.

[Anonymous No.5387870]

>>5387563
Seething segatard.

[Anonymous No.5387902]

>>5384110
>They couldn't stand up against both Nintendo and Sony.
Had little to do with it. Gamecube sold twice as many units and the dreamcast had it stayed on the market a few more years probably would have done as well or better. Sega had 10 years of bad decisions compounded with the popping of the bubble era in Japan that they had to struggle with.

[Anonymous No.5387907]

>>5384108
And yet most of the n64 library is garbage.

[Anonymous No.5387919]

>>5387902
The Dreamcast probably wouldn’t have survived much longer even if Sega hadn’t prematurely pulled the plug. The PS2’s big holiday 2001 plus the GC and Xbox’s were magnitudes better looking than anything the Dreamcast hardware was capable of.

[Anonymous No.5387923]

>>5387919
GC and Xbox’s launch titles*

[Anonymous No.5387948]

the saturn doesnt have a good library sorry to break to you.

[Anonymous No.5387971]

>>5384107
>>How could both Nintendo and Sega fuck up so badly and allow Sony to win?

In their defense, the market was rapidly shifting at the time, as well as a global market that had different expectations and interests per region, I'm not sure anyone knew what was going to be a surefire hit.

I'd say the n64 was a bigger fuck up, the saturn offered most of the things that were popular at the time, it was pricing and comparison to the much cheaper sony platform that hurt them, the n64 just outright wasn't right for the market, even in Japan it was the worst selling system, for most of its lifespan the SNES was doing much better there.

[Anonymous No.5387994]

>>5386729
Serious question, what games best display the saturn asa 2d powerhouse? Not really interested in fighters as I have a cabinet set up for that.

[Anonymous No.5388012]

>>5387971
Yeah, the N64’s library was basically everything the Japanese aren’t interested in. Very few RPGs and an overall library that was way more western feeling. Especially the several popular FPS games.

[Anonymous No.5388064]

>>5387971
>>5388012
lol yet mario party 2 sold more in japan than any saturn game excluding virtual figther 2. Saturn problem was that it had almost no system sellers both in the west and japan.

[Anonymous No.5388098]

Most of the top selling n64 games came out in 1997-98, the others were long life sellers like mario, by that time Sega had moved on to the dreamcast. Also, virtua fighter 2 isn't exactly trivial, it was one of their biggest franchises.

[Anonymous No.5388176]

>>5387948
It does, you just have an anti-arcadegames bias.

[Anonymous No.5388191]

>>5388176
better go to an amusement arcade than buy a saturn.

[Anonymous No.5388225]

>>5388191
>amusement arcade

I’m so curious as to what your first language is.

[Anonymous No.5388624]

>>5387994
Burning Rangers and Panzer Dragoon Saga come to mind. Otherwise there is an unreleased prototype of the Saturn port of Shenmue which is truly impressive. Video is up of it online.

[Anonymous No.5388628]

>>5388624
I plan on playing both of those games but they're both 3D.

[Anonymous No.5388803]

The 5th generation was so lopsided it's ridiculous. N64 sold about 1/3 of the numbers the PlayStation pulled, the Saturn less than 1/3 of the N64, 3DO
less than 1/4 of the Saturn, and finally the Jaguar slogging in dead last at about 1/8 of the 3DO.

[Anonymous No.5389741]

>>5384173
Now you make me want to look them up

[Anonymous No.5389759]

>>5384270
>However, the pak only ran at around 1/2 to 2/3rds main bus frequency, so you had to choose between lower resolution but higher fps, or higher resolution with low fps
The Expansion Pak actually shares a memory bus with the included RAM. They both run at the same speed, just on the one bus. This means that adding the Expansion Pak into the N64 doesn't increase memory bandwidth, it just gives extra space.

This is the main reason why higher resolution modes on N64 often (but don't always) drastically decreased framerate, because though the console now has room for a larger framerate it actually hasn't become any faster at drawing one. The only speed advantage you might get from the Expansion Pak is extra RAMBUS banks (can sort of decrease random access latency by a bit) and less need to stream things in from ROM.

Other than an absolutely CHEAP and terrible memory bus architecture, the N64 is an excellently designed console and unlike the Saturn would have been very affordable to manufacture (even if the memory bus was good).

>>5386602
>It would’ve been interesting to see how the GC would have done if Nintendo had used full sized large capacity discs
Mini-discs were barely a limitation for the Gamecube other than FMV and audio needing the occasional downgrade or removal. No console of that generation could make actual use of several gigabytes of texturing or something like that.

>The hardware itself was pretty good and seemingly would’ve been capable of running most popular third party multiplats.
Gamecube's hardware was very good but it's quite overrated as well. ArtX (developers of the GPU) cut one very nasty corner by removing programmable SIMD support which even the N64 supported. This meant that games which required custom SIMD functionality for physics and dynamic animation like Burnout 3 couldn't be ported to Gamecube. It had nothing to do with the disk format.

[Anonymous No.5389760]

>>5388628
the saturns 3D is literally just scaled and rotated 2D. Otherwise try Astal, Princess Crown, Cotton Boomerang, Cotton 2, Assault Suit Leynos 2, Silhouette Mirage, Super Temp, Tryrush Deppy, Purikura Daisakusen, Steam Gear Mash, Dragon Force 1 & 2, Game Tengoku.

[Anonymous No.5389764]

>>5386727
>But the N64 has some bottlenecks. Also, the CPU handles the audio too, with its own audio engine.
The way you are 'supposed' to do audio on N64 is run it on the GPU's programmable SIMD unit. This isn't like running it in software but like in hardware, because a sound chip is nothing but a little SIMD unit running a few hardwired algorithms.

In practice though, for load balancing purposes, many good developers would process some of the audio on the SIMD unit and some of it in software on the CPU.

[Anonymous No.5389770]

>>5384108
/thread

[Anonymous No.5389801]

I have no horse in this race, but Segafags definitely can't handle, or dish out, banter.

[Anonymous No.5389902]

>Sonic
>good game
Pick one.

[Anonymous No.5389905]

>>5384107
>1995 - present
>anything but Sony

[Anonymous No.5389973]

>>5389902
Okay, I pick sonic 2, that game is great.

[Anonymous No.5390067]

>>5389905
More like PHONY

[Anonymous No.5390245]

>>5389801
In their defence, they've had it worst out of all the major videogame companies.
Imagine if your favourite game maker went from #2 to a 3rd party endlessly rehashing the same handful of IP's.

[Anonymous No.5390726]

>>5389760
>i literally don't know what I'm talking about

[Anonymous No.5391093]

>>5390726

[Anonymous No.5391639]

>>5391093
>i literally proved i don't know what I'm talking about
kek

[Anonymous No.5391646]

The Sega Saturn was the one that fucked up more in my opinion.

[Anonymous No.5391775]

>>5384107
The fact that the 3d rendering engine was square based instead of triangle meant it rain like shit in comparison XD

Outside of nights into dreams which was already very MEEEHH to begin with 3D and local multiplayer gaming was 100xs more fun and fulley fledged (considering the system shipped with a joystick) then 10 player 1 pixel bomber man XO XO XO

[Anonymous No.5391787]

>>5385980
N64 also did a lot of damage to the gamecube, I was expecting it to be snes2 but I eventually got a ps1 while playing n64 for multiplayer and the occasional exclusives paper mario, conker and perfect dark.
When gamecube launched the nintendo brand was poison, the systems price was cut to the same price as the ps1 mini and some people actually got a ps1 over a gamecube. It was discontinued a bit after smash brothers but I had many hours of multiplayer fun with it. Nintendo got Sega'd just like nec before it.

Sega was supposed to be what the ps1 became. I got a saturn on clearance in about 1997 or 98 after getting a ps1, I had read about how the ps1 was more powerful but playing games such as virua on, fighers megamix and sonic collection it didn't seem inferior to me, it was only later that I was able to see the launches of both systems software which falsely made the saturn look a lot weaker than it was.

N64 was more of a success because they were able to sell mario 64 for years later but at the time it seemed like nintendo was old news.

[Anonymous No.5391798]

>>5387558
that must be why metal slug runs really slow on certain ram carts

[Anonymous No.5391924]

>>5391787
Saturn was *overall* much weaker for 3D but VDP2 was actually very useful for 3D fighting games so it was one of the few 3D genres where the system could keep up with the PS1.

[Anonymous No.5391953]

>>5391787
I don't want to say this because I don't want to come off as a console fanboy and do like Nintendo in a lot of ways, but I have always thought the N64 was a huge misstep. It's the major (not 3do or jaguar etc) retro console I never got because it didn't have enough of interest. Mario and Zelda games never interested me though.

If AC had come out I may have though.

[Anonymous No.5391965]

The real fuck-up was the 32x.

[Anonymous No.5391985]

>>5384107
>N64: forgetting to put an optical drive in your 3D system
>Saturn: forgetting to put 3D in your optical drive system

PSX was the goldilocks system.

[Anonymous No.5393467]

>>5384107
Saturn couldn't get a new game featuring its company mascot during its entire lifespan and killed Sega's hardware division.

As much as I've grown to appreciate it, the Saturn undoubtedly was the bigger blunder, especially if you're not Japanese.

[Anonymous No.5393485]

>>5391985
>N64: forgetting to put an optical drive in your 3D system

They didn't forget, they just didn't want to pay royalties to whoever you're supposed for cd use/manufacturing. Same thing with them not using dvds.

[Anonymous No.5393492]

>>5393485
And no, I'm not trying to justify their choice. The company has always, to me, been either cheapskates or control freaks.

[Anonymous No.5393507]

>>5391985
To be fair, the main issue with the N64 isn't entirely the lack of a CD-ROM drive. Even with a CD-ROM drive you'd still be stuck with the tiny texture cache and the horrible bottlenecks the system had. Basically you'd still have shit quality textures and what not, but you might have CD Audio and FMVs tacked on.

And the Saturn technically was designed to be able to do 3D, it just did it in an odd inefficient way. If VDP1 was just clocked faster it probably would have been good enough to get by. Devs would have just put up with the weirdness like they did with other complicated consoles like the SNES, N64, PS2, PS3, etc.

[Anonymous No.5393545]

Saturn. Nobody owned that.

[Anonymous No.5393549]

>>5384178
Mortal Kombat 4 is on Playstation, N64, PC, and later Dreamcast.

[Anonymous No.5393572]

>>5391985
More like PS was mediocre at both 2D and 3D.

[Anonymous No.5393607]

>>5393485
That had nothing to do with it. They could have used their own optical disc if that were the case, like they did for gamecube as you are apparently aware. I don't know where you hear or how you got that impression but it's best not to do "original research" on topics you don't know about. That was a reason why the gamecube/dreamcast didn't use DVDs, it had nothing to do with the N64 not using optical media. They used cartridges because optical discs are much slower and also a lot easier to pirate. They also believed that the price to manufacture N64 carts was going to fall steeply, but this did not occur and they remained high throughout the N64 lifespan.

[Anonymous No.5393616]

>>5393607
(continued) also just an important note is that the cartridge speed makes a lot of N64 games look much better or are able to do a lot more things. It's not just the same as with optical media without loading times. It's why games like Mario 64 and OoT are so instantaneous and play so well to this day.

[Anonymous No.5393640]

>>5393616

Load times can be reduced or hidden though with good programming and good design. There's plenty of Saturn and PS1 games that can showcase this. On the N64 you still technically have similar limitations and load times, they're just not as pronounced as there's less data being transferred.

The N64 still has to load things into RAM like the Saturn and PS1 for certain things. This is why "just adding a CD-ROM drive" wouldn't actually fix a lot of it's issues. The major issue with the system is the small amounts of texture cache as well as other bottlenecks. This is why most games on the N64 have ass quality textures and blur the shit out of the image to hide the imperfections. Adding a CD-ROM drive you'll still have those issues as the texture cache is still small and the other bottlenecks are still there.

[Anonymous No.5393643]

>>5384107
Saturn.
the N64 wasn't a blowout success, but it held its place
lacked games, but the N64 library is pretty iconic, even if I'm not actually a fan of like any of the big-name titles on the machine (shit, at the time, 90% of what I played was Fighter's Destiny and Crusi'n USA, and then Episode 1 Racer)

in contrast, Sega manged to turn around their immensely successful 1994 (extreme success with the Genesis, all their new Model 2 games like Virtua Fighter 2, they were a contender for biggest name in videogames) to the absolute shitshow that the Saturn was

>awful launch (out of nowhere, few machines available, only launch game worth playing is Panzer Dragoon)
>$100 more than the PS1 at release
>no games (and the situation isn't that great even when you import), most of its best shit came at the ass end of its lifespan
>weaker video hardware (VDP2 tilemapping is nice and all, but the VDP1 is just absurdly fucking slow, especially if you're putting remotely decent quality textures on screen, and glhf not having hardware T&L like on PlayStation)

what a fucking mess
the launch and the lack of releases killed the machine -- even if you had a Saturn, you had absolutely fuck all
loads of shovelware, loads of sports
you could play Quake, but by 1998, you probably had a PC that was good enough to run it at a playable speed
no real Sonic game in general -- took until 1997 for Sonic R to come out, and that game kinda blows -- it looks fantastic for the machine, but it handles like raw ass
NiGHTS is fun and it's gorgeous (lol pop in tho), but it's short as all fucking hell and your average rando doesn't care about score attack

>>5384335
Sega CD wasn't a huge problem, but the 32X just diverted resources and attention from Saturn for no reason. Chaotix was supposed to be on Saturn, and then it got rushed out for the 32X.

>>5385086
Game Gear was doing remarkably well for a not-Nintendo handheld. Cutting it always seemed like a mistake to me.

[Anonymous No.5393650]

>>5393640
Did you not listen to anything I said? Of course having an optical drive like a CD-ROM wouldn't solve anything other than more storage space - it would make everything else much worse - the games wouldn't be able to load quickly as they do now. Loading into RAM? N64 cartridges were fast enough that everything could be read from them almost as if it was already in RAM, though this wasn't used for all games, particularly ports of other games like Quake 64 where the lazy option was to follow the PC code of loading it into RAM.

I hope you are not stupid enough to think that computer engineers working for Nintendo did not realize there were bottlenecks, they were trying to strip down an SGI workstation (which was a supercomputer at the time) as much as they could while keeping the best features and it worked perfectly well (apart from the cartridges continuing to be too pricy). The entire point of keeping a low texture cache (which has been memed way out of proportion btw) is because large texture data wasn't expected anyway because of the low cartridge space.

[Anonymous No.5393702]

>>5393650

From what I remember the N64's cartridges don't work exactly the same way as typical carts did in previous consoles. They don't function like prepopulated RAM and some things still need to be loaded into RAM. This is why N64 games still have load times. The good ones though hide it well due to either low amounts of data or clever programming.

And of course I'm aware Nintendo knew there were bottlenecks, their games are designed around them after all. Part of what you were saying I was agreeing with and was giving more background on why a CD-ROM drive wouldn't have done much. It's not just that "lol CDs are slow". It's that the system is inherently designed around not dealing with large amounts of data that would come with using CDs.

That design for better or worse does make a realistic bottle neck and it's really the true reason why N64 games have crap quality textures and what not, not just the use of cartridges.

[Anonymous No.5393851]

>>5389759
I thought the gamecube had some paired float operations

[Anonymous No.5393857]

>>5389760
The ps1's graphics hardware is just as unaware of a z axis as the Saturn's hardware.

[Anonymous No.5393861]

>>5393643
Ps1 didn't have hardware transform and lighting.

[Anonymous No.5394214]

>>5393507
>Even with a CD-ROM drive you'd still be stuck with the tiny texture cache and the horrible bottlenecks the system had
The N64 had the largest texture cache ever put into a consumer graphic chip at the time. What the console actually needed was a second memory bus. The cause of low texture resolution in many games isn't due to the texture cache but insufficient memory bandwidth. The N64 does have *a little* more peak memory bandwidth than the PS1 but the N64's GPU is *considerably* hungrier for it (z-buffer, etc) and having a single channel memory bus is inefficient and a lot of the bandwidth is pissed away on bus contention unless the game was brilliantly programmed.

>If VDP1 was just clocked faster it probably would have been good enough to get by
Memory would also need to be faster since the problem with VDP1 isn't just fill rate but overdraw to VRAM.

>>5393640
>blur the shit out of the image to hide the imperfections
The N64 does no such thing. Most of the blur comes from dither filtering which is designed to reconstruct (as much as possible) the original 24-bit color framebuffer out of a 15-bit color framebuffer. The other cause of blur is from a crude scaling algorithm, but nobody really knows why the console scales the image from 320x240 to 640x240.

>N64 cartridges were fast enough that everything could be read from them almost as if it was already in RAM
Not really. N64's RAM runs at between 10x to 100x faster than the cartridge bus. It's not like the SNES where the cartridge bus sometimes ran faster than the console's RAM!

>>5393851
>I thought the gamecube had some paired float operations
Yes it does on the CPU but it doesn't have very high performance. Paired singles is only half of a true SIMD unit. The GCN's GPU on the other hand only has a fixed function SIMD unit (and most of its ops aren't even floating point!).

>>5393861
>Ps1 didn't have hardware transform and lighting.
It sort of did, inside the CPU.

[Anonymous No.5394231]

>>5384107
They both made each company a shit ton of money. Just because something isn't first in the race (which you have made up in your head) does not make it a failure.

[Anonymous No.5394782]

>>5394231
Sort of true but if the N64 hadn't been successful in North America, it would've been a Wii U type flop. Nintendo got absolutely steamrolled by the PlayStation in every other major territory.

[Anonymous No.5394786]

>>5394231
oh ffs, shut up zoomer. The N64 ruined Nintendo's dominant position in the market. The Saturn was a commercial disaster and ruined Sega to the point of no return.

>(which you have made up in your head)
Stop. They objectively were not the number 1 seller and OP's way of framing it is completely valid.

[Anonymous No.5394863]

>>5394231
>Just because something isn't first in the race (which you have made up in your head) does not make it a failure.
No, but selling like shit (Saturn) and having barely any 3rd party support (N64) does constitute as failure, especially if you compare them to the Genesis and the SNES.

[Anonymous No.5394868]

>>5394863
anything is great when compared to the sega genesis, that thing is a piece of crap.

[Anonymous No.5394872]

>>5384107
>All this N64 hate
It's like y'all never played N64. I could play that thing all day

[Anonymous No.5394874]

>>5394868
It's the best selling Sega system which objectively proves it's good, going from Genesis to Saturn was a let down and turned many Sega owners into Sonytards.

[Anonymous No.5394883]

>>5394874
being the shit that sells the most doesn't automagically makes it good. See how much nigger music sells, nigger movies and all the lgbtfeminist shit sells, it still fucking horrid.

[Anonymous No.5394943]

>>5384159
>That pic

[Anonymous No.5395332]

>But an important initial question was “which system?”
>The 3D0 was DOA, but we also got our hands on specs for the upcoming Sega Saturn, the Sega 32X, and the mysterious Sony Playstation. The decision really didn’t take very long. 3D0, poor 3D power, and no sales. 32X, unholy Frankenstein’s monster – and no sales. Saturn, also a crazy hybrid design, and really clunky dev units. Then there was the Sony. Their track record in video games was null, but it was a sexy company and a sexy machine – by far the best of the lot. I won’t even bring up the Jaguar.

[Anonymous No.5395358]

>>5394872
>It's like y'all have preferences
Gatdam Anonymous
Whatta world!!!

[Anonymous No.5395375]

Nintendo didn't really fuck anything up. Sony drafted a contract that would have fucked over Nintendo. Going with cartridges over CDs was because of the incredibly realistic fear of piracy regarding CDs and incredibly bad loading times CDs had. People really need to understand history and nuance instead of riling up console wars all the time. Each system really held their own niche anyway. Saturn had the arcade ports, PlayStation had the RPGs and other single-player experiences, and the N64 had the (good) platformers, racing games, and multiplayer games.

[Anonymous No.5395381]

No one proved him wrong>>5394883
FUCK SEGA CONSOLES AND FUCK SEGA

[Anonymous No.5395384]

>>5395375
Yeah, but being a reasonable adult would leave this thread at about 3 replies;
>Both had their own qualities and merits, rendering them worth time if one is interested
>Both have unique features and/or games that are not seen elsewhere
>[Some semantic splitting of the systems such as to say the Saturn possesses more RPGs but the N64 has longer platformers, or something else comparative but not qualitative]

Only by being petulant assholes and by creating an intolerable thread atmosphere can 4chan actually progress to 217 replies

[Anonymous No.5395394]

>>5394872
kys

[Anonymous No.5396580]

>>5389760
> he doesn't know that the PS1's 3D is just scaled and rotated 3D

kek
basically, both systems do perspective calculations (depth calculations) only on a per-vertex basis. consoles only got fully 3d for arbitrary polygons starting with the n64 and dreamcast

[Anonymous No.5396592]

>>5395381
based and redpilled

[Anonymous No.5396646]

>>5384107
N64 outsold Xbox, Genesis, and Atari 2600. In all 3 cases it had higher sales in America AND worldwide overall.

How in the FUCK can you call that a "fuck-up"?

[Anonymous No.5396751]

>>5396646
It's a fuck-up in that it's the first console where Nintendo wasn't in the #1 position of that gen, and was their worst selling system after the virtualboy.

[Anonymous No.5396985]

>>5396751
The PS1’s sales numbers were absolutely unprecedented at the time. Sony truly shifted the entire industry singlehandedly.

[Anonymous No.5397047]

>>5391093
For real: I played the original Tomb Raider on Saturn for the first time recently. Got to the fucking DINOSAURS and decided the game was too stupid to keep playing.

[Anonymous No.5397108]

PROVE HIM WRONG SEGATARDS>>5394883

[Anonymous No.5397207]

>>5396985
That was 100% because they were the first console manufacturer to break big in Europe. The PS1 sold only SLIGHTLY higher than the NES in America and about in the same ballpark as the NES in Japan. And the only reason it had even slightly higher sales in America was because of population growth. The percentage of households that had a NES was the same that had a PS1. Outside of Europe, Sony didn't do anything "unprecedented".

[Anonymous No.5397210]

>>5394883
that shit doesn't even sell though

the media forces it on people, but no one buys it

[Anonymous No.5397217]

>>5397210
nigger music sells pretty well though, my nigger

[Anonymous No.5397403]

>>5384107
A relative had a Saturn and I bought an N64 in 1998 and it was my console for that generation. I regret it immensely.
>expensive games
>too few multiplats
>bad distribution where I live
>horrible image quality

SM64 and OOT were good, but didn't make up for the flaws. I then got a PS2 and played some PS1 games too, and finally got a Saturn of my own.
Out of the 3, I prefer the Saturn, though the PS1 is objectively the better system overall.

[Anonymous No.5397519]

>>5384107
Not everything is a battle. Sometimes things just co-exist. If we can't talk about hidden gems without you dumb fucks getting mad saying there are none then I'm going to tell you that things aren't better then each other just different.

[Anonymous No.5397524]

sega=nigger music
stop playing sega games

[Anonymous No.5397539]

>>5397524
nintendo=fag music
sony=nigger music 2.0

stop playing videogames

[Anonymous No.5397643]

nintendo=classical music
every other company= pop garbage

[Anonymous No.5397678]

>>5397403
>horrible image quality
Did you forget about its competition?

[Anonymous No.5397809]

>>5396646
This. I think they were good numbers seeing how experimental the n64 was at the time.
Fucking OP and mods let this shit threads alive to start flame-console-war shit.

[Anonymous No.5397927]

>>5387571
You think Sega was more hostile to third parties than Nintendo? You might be more autistic than the Sega widow poster.

[Anonymous No.5398902]

One literally helped destroy a company and turn them into a shell of what they once were

Of course, let's be honest, the only reason SEGA even took off was good Sonic games. As soon as those were gone, average consumer confidence went way down, regardless of how good their non-Sonic properties were. SEGA was doomed as soon as 3D became the big thing and they couldn't figure out how to Sonic into 3d.