/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.534653]

>tfw I liked Sonic 1 over 2, 3&Knuckles and CD

Maybe I'm just into hard games

[Anonymous No.534663]

No spin dash really kills Sonic 1.

[Anonymous No.534664]

Special Snow Flake detected
>Any Sonic Game
>Hard

[Anonymous No.534675]

eh. it's alright. 3 is my favorite

[Anonymous No.534678]

>>534664

Cut it out.

[Anonymous No.534713]

It's a great game, but I prefer Sonic 2 over them all. Still love everything from the originals.

Why did the programmer for this have to be such a faggot...

[Thatmew !y.aZ6nV0iM No.534727]

>>534663
But its levels weren't designed with that to begin with. Having it on in Sonic Jam just ruins it. Speed was a reward in Sonic 1, not a necessity.

[Anonymous No.534834]

Since when was Sonic considered hard? Unless you're that retarded Japanese guy on that Game Center show, how have you ever encountered any difficulty?

[Anonymous No.534840]

>>534653

I used to like 2 best because its easy, but recently I've started to like 1 more. I think I'm torn between 1 and CD for best Sonic game. Least favourite of the main 16-bit series (not counting spin-offs and obviously shit games) is definitely Sonic 3, doesn't have a single zone that I enjoy playing, Marble Garden in particular can go fuck itself. S&K was good however, so I just never play the lock-on version.

[Anonymous No.534969]

Sonic CD > 2 = 3 & Knuckles > Sonic 1

[Anonymous No.535008]

>>534834
>Sonic
>being hard ever

Pick uno.

>2D
>press Right to win
>3D
>press Up to win

[Anonymous No.535009]

>>534678

It's true, all easy as Fuck.

S3&K was the hardest, anyway.

[Anonymous No.535051]

All of post-16 bit Sonic doesn't matter and is irrelevant; besides that's the point where Amy and other bullshit arrived that led to the development of one of the worst fanbases ever.

[Anonymous No.535054]

S3&K bosses had more depth and some of the levels took a good bit of time to truly "get" for most young gamers. The first two games were pretty unforgivable, sure, but if you play S3&K from start to finish without using lame ass savestates (that means you too, XBLA players), it's actually a legitimate challenge.

[Anonymous No.535072]

Sonic has always been an easy series.

[Anonymous No.535064]

>>535051
But Amy was introduced in Sonic CD.

[Anonymous No.535079]

>>535072
Eh, Mario was never hard either except SMB2j

[Anonymous No.535098]

Well all of the other Sonics ruined what Sonic is about.
You're supposed to work for speed, not just get it for free with a spin dash.

[Anonymous No.535474]

For some reason I never liked the level design much in Sonic 3 compared to 1 and 2. They are not bad in 3 but they never touched my joy bone.

[Anonymous No.535517]

>>534727

I agree that the levels were designed to kill your speed in addition to you not having spin dash.

These were lessons learned by the time Sonic 2 was released. There was no point to Sonic being able to go fast in some parts of some stages in Sonic 1 only so that you would have to trudge through the doldroms of the rest of the stages.

2 and 3&K took massive advantage of the player's desire to tear through rollercoaster-like stages. Had they stuck with the design flaws of 1, Sonic would be an obscure franchise.

[Anonymous No.535714]

3K = CD > 2 = 1

This is fact.

3K did everything 2 did, but better.
CD did everything 1 did, but better.

1/CD is a really different breed of game than 2/3K when you really look at it. I mean yeah, they're all classic sanik. But there's a fundamental difference in that 1/CD lack the plethora of SUPER-GO-FAST moments that 2/3K are littered with.

[Anonymous No.535902]

>>535714
3K has an uglier Sonic, worse bonus games, stupider plot, and a greater miss/hit ratio for good songs.

2 is the gold standard of Sonic.

[Anonymous No.535926]

>>535902
>caring about literally everything but the gameplay

[Anonymous No.536023]

>>535926
That actually isn't funny at all; in fact it's rather pathetic. Oh what the hell, lets laugh anyway.

[Anonymous No.536050]

>>535926
Gameplay's better too. Better designed levels. More speed. Better enemies. Better bosses.

[Anonymous No.536062]

I see 3 and K as two different games, mainly because of how they're designed. 3 is mostly fast-paced with lots of crazy twists and turns, K is mostly puzzle-based with more emphasis on platforming.

For me it's probably 3 > 2=/=1 > K =/= CD

>>535098
Sonic has never worked that way. At the most, the spindash just offered an optional alternative to holding right to "work for" speed. It seems like most of the people who think this way are new to the Genesis games and think they play exactly like Mario. They don't.

[Anonymous No.536106]

>>536050
Less exploration
Less platforming
Less bosses
No Hyper Sonic
Tails can't fly
No Knuckles

I'm sorry, even though Sonic 2's my favorite for nostalgia, it really just doesn't measure up to 3K.

[Anonymous No.536119]

>>536062
They were literally designed as one single game.

[Anonymous No.536194]

>>536106
Tails not flying is better than his constant tinny fart THOPTHOPTHOPTHOPTHOP he makes all the time in Sonic 3

And Super Sonic is already invincible and super fast, why do you need something MORE than that?

No Knuckles is a good thing.

[Anonymous No.536214]

>>534834
>Unless you're that retarded Japanese guy on that Game Center show, how have you ever encountered any difficulty?

lol, I've been meaning to watch that one.

[Anonymous No.536216]

>>536194
I'm just saying, 3K had a lot more going for it, and it wasn't tedious or half-assed shit like the main series games have been getting since SA1.

[Anonymous No.536242]

>>535517
>Had they stuck with the design flaws of 1, Sonic would be an obscure franchise.

lol, you're so full of shit here. Probably trolling but I had to respond anyway, good job.

Hint: the main reason that Sonic 2 sold so well was that it was the highly-anticipated sequel to Sonic 1. The only reason the Genesis was even selling comparably to the SNES at that time in the first place was because of how fucking mindblowing Sonic 1 was when it first came out.

[Anonymous No.536249]

1 > 3K >>> CD >>> 2 >>>>>>>>>> all other Sonic games

[Anonymous No.536260]

>>536194

>And Super Sonic is already invincible and super fast, why do you need something MORE than that?

Because Super Sonic controls like a wild bull trying to buck you, and it's convenient to have an "oh shit" option to save you from that bottomless pit you almost fell into because you're still getting used to the height and distance you can cover with your jump.

Or worse, into a pit that isn't bottomless - just too deep to escape from with a floor of spikes.

[Anonymous No.536483]

>Sonic 1
>duhde-duhde-duhde-duhde
>duhdeduhdeduheduhdeduh!
>glugluglug
HAHA NOPE

[Anonymous No.536513]

how people can think CD is better than 2 is completely beyond me. the level design in that game is atrocious.

[Anonymous No.536695]

>>536242
...Dude the Genesis had a bigger market share its entire life cycle. It wasn't until they discontinued the system altogether that the SNES caught up and passed it.

[Anonymous No.536715]

>>536119
It's more like an episodic game when you put it into context. I don't really see how that makes my points any less valid, though.

[Anonymous No.536717]

>>536513
For a while SonicCD was hard to come by and it became a holy grail game. That was before it ended up getting ported to every system, phone and microwave. That's the only reason its so magical to so many.
I got it when it first came out though so, while it rocked, I was able to move on when S3 came out.

[Anonymous No.536730]

>>534653
1 is my favourite from the Genesis era. I don't really like Spindash in general. It worked in SRB2 though.
Unfortunately, my favourite in the franchise is by far Unleashed[/spoiler[

[CHAD PIFFINGTON No.536814]

>>534653
I agree. Sonic 1 is my fave too.

[Anonymous No.536826]

>>536260
>That one spiked pit in the mine level
Every fucking time. Almost not worth going Super in that level

>Being super
>Finishing the first act of a level
>Run past the spinning sign at the end of the level
>Turn normal for a moment
>Jump for the hell of it
>You turn super again, but get stuck in the air
>The time is stopped and the end screen for the level hasn't popped up
>Have to restart the game
Fuck this glitch.

[Anonymous No.536831]

>>534653
Sonic 2 > 1 IMO, though both are good. 2 just has better level designs, even if 1 is slightly harder. I wouldn't call either of them HARD though.

Sonic 3 & Knuckles... I just can't get over how shitty and drawn out the level designs are, and how bad the music is. (with the notable exception of Hydrocity, which is catchy as hell)

I tried to force myself to play it, and got to that carnival zone, but it's just so fucking boring and overall awful compared to the first 2 games that I just couldn't subject myself to it anymore.
It just makes me wonder what the hell happened there. Did they fire all their good game designers and replace them with shitty ones, or were they forced by company execs to upscale every level 3 times and/or repetitively copy and paste bits of them after the fact just to artificially stretch the game out after it was too late to actually add new worthwhile content?
In any case, the only good thing about it I can think of is that the boss battles are more varied.

[Anonymous No.536851]

I could hardly ever get past Chemical Plant in 2 as a stupid child, therefore it ruined the game for me.

3/S&K is definitely my favorite, if only because I like the atmosphere more than any of the other games. Yeah, I said it. Atmosphere.

[Anonymous No.536875]

>>535008
>2D
>press Right to win

Have you gotten past the Marble Zone in Sonic 1?

[Anonymous No.536898]

>>536513
Most people seem to praise CD for its art style and soundtrack. Some like the levels because there's more exploration involved. I personally prefer the other off-beat addon game. It feels like it was made in direct opposition to CD's pretentious level design.

[Anonymous No.536907]

>>534653
I'm with you, OP.

I think Sonic 1 has the most variety in gameplay and offered the most challenge.

Also, dat art deco look.

[Anonymous No.536929]

>>536907
This is the correct opinion to have. It really is a pretty fantastic game. Fuck the haters.

[Anonymous No.536931]

>>535902
Look, I agree that Sonic 2 is better in nerly every way, but definitely not in terms of the special stage.

S3K's special stage is probably the best one in the series, though I am a big fan of Sonic 1's as well.

[Anonymous No.536935]

>>534969
CD's levels are pure shit.

[Anonymous No.536956]

[Anonymous No.536958]

>>536931
>S3K's special stage is probably the best one in the series
Are you talking about that tedious one where you awkwardly maneuver around collecting hundreds of orbs, or does Sonic & Knuckles have a different one than S3&K?

[Anonymous No.536965]

>>536958
I'm talking about the one that doesn't have you awkwardly maneuver around a tube and collect rings on the ceiling, yes.

[Anonymous No.536967]

>>536965
That tells me nothing.

[Anonymous No.536969]

>>536956
The attempt at 3D rendered Sonic for 3 and CD really doesn't have the simple and clean charm of the Sonic 1 and 2 logos.

[Anonymous No.536975]

>>536969
Huh, I never even noticed that before. Not only is the game itself worse, but even the intro screen looks worse...

[Anonymous No.536980]

>>536969
2 definitely has the best intro screen.

[Anonymous No.536985]

>>536969
Yup. Nor does it have that beautiful parallax scrolling ocean in Sonic 1's title.

[Anonymous No.537004]

>>536969
I like the CD one. It's gold and shit, that's how you know you're getting quality.

[Anonymous No.537009]

>>536715
Not the one who replied to you, but when your initial thesis is
>I see 3 and K as two different games
And the reality is
>They were literally designed as one single game

I mean, you tell me.

[Anonymous No.537037]

>>534653
Sonic 1 is the easiest. Deal with it.

[Anonymous No.537045]

>>536898
Here Here! I saved up allowance to buy that thing. I loved it and was SURE it would be a hit. Nope.

[Anonymous No.537052]

>>536907
I can never NOT see Ganon's face in the background of Labyrinth

[Anonymous No.537057]

>>537037
Not even remotely true.

[Anonymous No.537053]

>>537037
>implying it's easier than 2

[Anonymous No.537054]

>>536898

that game gave me a god damn headache

it didn't fucking make any sense

those terrible elastic band physics and the sprites going GIGANTIC and the super saturated colors, god damn chaotix was a mess.

[Anonymous No.537056]

>>534663
because you had to actually play well to go fast

[Anonymous No.537063]

>>535902
I don't know what kind of weed you smoke, but fuck 2's special stages. All the awkward visuals, skewed perception during bends/rises/dips and often even traps since your draw distance is cut. Aside from like the first two, it's just a memorization game that kicks you out on the first fuckup, especially the 4th(iirc) and 7th.

S3&K has only one special stage I can recall where if you slip up it's almost impossible to recover, and that's out of 14. Once you understand your jumping distance, you stand a fair chance of doing the rest of those stages without having to see them overandoverandoveragain.

And that's another thing: Aside from dodging bomb loops, jumping is a total trap in 2 and usually just causes you to miss rings. Bullshit.

[Anonymous No.537064]

>>537054
>super saturated colors
That's an understatement.

[Anonymous No.537065]

>>537054
The Gigantic thing was a power-up. What was so hard about it?

[Anonymous No.537083]

>>537063
>but fuck 2's special stages
Not him, but IMO all the Sonic games' bonus stages are kinda shit, and I tend to avoid them if I'm just playing through the game. I would say 2's bonus stages are still easier and less tedious than 3's shitty repetitive ball collection thing though.

[Anonymous No.537086]

>>537065

nothing was hard about it, it was just ugly as sin

[Anonymous No.537094]

>>537063
For me, this is one of those things I just can't have an opinion about because I got so good at both I can't remember ever being frustrated at them. I'm sure I'd suck NOW but...I dunno.
A lot comes from playing them as they came out I think. By the time 3 came out I had devoured 1 and 2 so thoroughly that the newness was welcome. And then I memorized 3 by the time S&K came out.

CD has my favorite Special Stages, though and everybody here seems to hate'em...

[Anonymous No.537106]

>>537054
pretty chaotic
>carlos.nsx.bat

[Anonymous No.537107]

>>537083

>IMO all the Sonic games' bonus stages are kinda shit, and I tend to avoid them if I'm just playing through the game.

CD has good special stages, 1 has decent ones that are fun just because it's a relaxing change of pace, 2 and 3K have shitty ones. If anything 3K's are worse just because they're so damn boring, but 2's are definitely a lot harder.

[Anonymous No.537123]

>>536050
>Better designed levels. More speed. Better enemies

Metropolis Zone, although if by 'better' you mean 'faggy and made to sour your experience of the game', then sure.

Sky Chase was also boring as all fuck, and totally unnecessary. Enemies were also shit.

[Anonymous No.537131]

>>537107
Also the bonus stages with the gumball machine and the laser pinball things made up for the shitty special stages somewhat. Those things were great.

[Anonymous No.537136]

>>537123
I never had much of a problem with Metropolis Zone. It's by far the hardest zone in the game, but it kinda needed one, since the others are so easy.

Sky Chase was boring and pointless though.
However, it's so short and easy that it doesn't really detract much from the experience.

[Anonymous No.537141]

>>537123
The only thing about Metropolis that sucked was the extra act but otherwise..why? Because you couldn't GOTTA GO FAST DERP through it? It's a platforming game!

[Anonymous No.537184]

>>537141
>tfw when Metropolis had some of the GOES FASTEST moments in the game

[Anonymous No.537190]

>>537083
They are 'easier' in a sense at the end of the day, because it's all rote memorization. It's a track and you go in one direction and see what you missed, so when you try again you either remember it and progress or don't and have another opportunity to get it ingrained. My problem with this is that a good few of the opportunities here are ones you only get to see after you've fucked up.

Oh, rings IMMEDIATELY after we start the curve. Well fuck.
Oh, bombs in the center on a rise so I can't see them coming. Welp.

And then those stages with the constant bombs in the middle. Rings are right, left, right, left, left, right. Fucked up? Not enough rings... Hit bomb? Not enough rings...

Those little bits just cheapen the challenge to me; it's like the game just slaps you across the face and is like 'remember this moment, for it'll be there waiting again'.

[Anonymous No.537202]

>>537190
>Those little bits just cheapen the challenge to me; it's like the game just slaps you across the face and is like 'remember this moment, for it'll be there waiting again'.
I never said they were well designed, just that they're not quite as infernally dull and tedious as Sonic 3's.

[Anonymous No.537204]

I like Sonic 1 over them all too, OP, but not for the reason you listed. For me, it has the best atmosphere, the best soundtrack, and some of the best stages in the series. No experimental shit, no major speed gimmicks, no MOTHERFUCKING SHADOW, just Sonic and some fucking awesome music and some very aesthetically pleasing levels. Of course, opinions and all of that.

[Anonymous No.537221]

>>537190
But beside that, there's another issue I have with it that I don't have in 1 or 3, but also experience in CD: Where exactly you have to be to get rings (or hit ships in the case of CD) is pretty ambiguous. This becomes a problem most notably on the 4th and 7th emeralds, where constant opportunities of ending up with half the rings available occur (those spots on the sides where they have doublerings; it's so finicky as to where counts as grabbing both or just one or the other).

>>537202
Well, you seem to find 3 dull and tedious (I suppose all the games' special stages are tedious as fuck when you really think about it), and I don't find them to be that dull, so I guess we just differ there. That said, my problem with 2's is that many of them are straight up bullshit and I stand by that.

[Anonymous No.537241]

>>537141
Leaps of faith, Stars, Crabs

Although I will admit that some Stars and Crabs are placed in challenging positions rather than bullshit ones.

>implying the reason is GOTTAGOFAST
LoFs aside, I actually enjoy the overall platforming the stage itself provides. Screw-turning was clever for its time.

[Anonymous No.537356]

>>537241
The damn Advance games never had a pattern to the spike placement like Metropolis Zone did in it's blind leaps and that's one of the reason I'll fight anyone who says those are worthy entries.
It's one of those levels that is constantly regarded hard but I don't remember it being any more difficult just that damn FULL SIZED third Act was a bummer.

[Anonymous No.537351]

>>536715
No, it's not. It was made as one game, but due to limited space on the cartridge, they cut the game in half.

[Anonymous No.537424]

>>534727
It's not an issue of whether levels were designed with it. It's an issue of momentum and speed. Spin dash wouldn't be a problem if they didn't move like they were the fucking juggernaut.
Also I'm gonna spindash in Sonic 1 anyway so fuck you.

[Anonymous No.537431]

>>537424
>blur filter
>spindashing in Sonic 1
>complaining about momentum in the only Sonic game that requires it

So much stupidity in one post.

[Anonymous No.537449]

>>537431
>not using a blur filter
>fucking up your graphics
>not spindashing in sonic 1
>enjoying slow as fuck momentum
The hipster retro stupidity of your post cannot possibly be contained in a single post.

[Anonymous No.537513]

Okay, so I think I'm gonna guess what I'm supposed to do here.

I have to somehow throw the bomb in a way that hits the treasure chests, right? At the same time, I can't jump too high, or I'll just get put in the canon. If I can hit the chest, I'll somehow get it

...that is what I'm supposed to do, right?

[Anonymous No.537520]

>>537518
>>537513
Wrong thread m8

[Anonymous No.537538]

>People shitting on CD's level design
Nope, fuck you guys. The level design in CD is great. They were intentionally made so that you can't just speed through the levels easily, which is why they have obstacles eveywhere and often require you to go back and forth through the levels to find places to get enough speed for warping. If you play Sonic CD like a really fast puzzle game, then it's pretty fucking tops. Sonic CD art has fucking great art direction, and the peel out move is really fun too. Also, both the JP and US soundtracks are top tier of sanic music.

The only reason people bitch about the level design in Sonic CD is because they suck at Wacky Workbench or Metallic Madness. Just play them a few times and you'll get used to the layout, making them much more manageable. Jesus, it isn't difficult.

And before someone tries to blame nostalgia for my love of Sonic CD or some bullshit, I never played Sonic CD growing up despite Sonic 1-3 & Knuckles being some of my most played games during my childhood. I didn't play CD until a few years ago and I would easily say that it's the best Sonic game, but it appears to be one of those things where you just get it or you don't.

[Anonymous No.537541]

>>535079
I've also never seen anyone call any Mario game hard, and who brought that up in this thread?

[Anonymous No.537562]

>>537351
That wasn't why, it was because they didn't want to push back the release date any longer. It could have easily fit onto one cartridge, and they really would have been better off just delaying it to the end of the year and releasing it that way.

[Anonymous No.537582]

>>534663
>only had Sonic Jam as kid
>Sonic 1 comes with spindash
I never really knew everyone's suffering
And honestly it doesn't even break the game

[Anonymous No.537595]

>>537538
The problem with Sonic CD is that it's a Sonic game, everyone was just expecting to play it as a Sonic game and try to keep the momentum, but it should be played instead as a regular platformer.
It's all about expectations

[Anonymous No.537601]

>>537595
But Sonic CD is easily one of the fastest Sonic games if you know how to play the levels. It doesn't have to be slow.

[Anonymous No.537606]

>>537601
>if you know how to play the levels
That's the key idea in that sentence

[Anonymous No.537614]

>>537595
There's tons of points in Sonic 1 where you need to slow it down and think about what you're doing. It wasn't until about 2 or 3 that it started getting really fast, and going slow was more about picking up optional shit / getting chaos emeralds. Not that I'm complaining about 2 / 3, mind you, I'm just saying it was a perfectly "Sonic" game for the time.

The reason I liked Sonic CD was that you had to think about your speed rather than just hold right 80% of the time; if you went fast without thinking about it, you'd probably hit a time travel post you didn't want to, or you'd ruin the one you already picked up.

[Anonymous No.537617]

>>537606
Yeah, so it basically boils down to people going
>I can't go fast immediately? SHIT LEVEL DESIGN.
I mean jesus, people should just replay the game a few times so they know where all the items/sign posts are and how to gain speed effectively. Sonic CD is so fucking satisfying when you play it well, something you don't get in the other games in my opinion. Stardust Speedway has gotta be the best designed zone in a Sonic game ever, it combines the elements of puzzle, platforming, and speed perfectly, along with great music and really good art direction.

[Anonymous No.537623]

>>537617
>great music
If you're playing the Jap/Eur version
IT BEGINS

[Anonymous No.537631]

>>537052
I can never NOT see Marios face in the background of Marble Zone

[Anonymous No.537632]

>>537623
I don't mind the US soundtrack. The JP soundtrack is far superior, but there are a few good US tracks.

http://youtu.be/93u4qeYV8AI

[Anonymous No.537634]

I've grew up with the Sonic on Master System, spindash and trying to get yours rings back after being hit were totally new for me when I tried the Genesis ones a couple of days ago.
And at the same time, I've learned that the Sonics on MS weren't the first ones. I don't know, for me since it was on an older console they were out before the 16-bits Sonics, would've been logical.

[Kage !!CKhi3Y7AOqx No.537667]

>>537601
I can also speedrun Ecco 2 because i'm so familiar with the game. Of course I can beat it faster because I know how to play the game, but that doesn't make it a fast paced game.

CD's level design was what Sonic 2 would have looked like if they didn't improve anything from the first game. But even Sonic 1 has something that makes it a hundred times better and more soniclike than CD: Momentum. You can hardly build momentum in CD outside of the really easy stages of the game. Meanwhile in the other early Sega Sonic Games(excluding GG/Master System of course) you have momentum even in places where the game is hard and you need to watch your back. Momentum is why I believe that Sonic is a generally stronger platforming series than Mario, and why I believe that Mario 3 is the best mario game. Because the game has pace and momentum to it; you aren't usually forced to play at a shitty pace because the level design is bad. In fact the level design is FUN and GOOD because of the momentum. The only Sonic CD level that had ANY momentum that resembled the Genesis games was Stardust speedway.

You can like Sonic CD, but it isn't at all designed like a Sonic game. And for that, it can never be considered the highlight of the series.

[Anonymous No.537671]

>>537617
>I can't go fast immediately? SHIT LEVEL DESIGN.
No, more like
>Shit level design? SHIT LEVEL DESIGN.

The >I can't go fast immediately?
bit would apply to Sonic 1 as well most of the time, and it actually has good level design.

[Kage !!CKhi3Y7AOqx No.537680]

>>535902
I always enjoy defending 3K so let's examine this a bit.

>Uglier Sonic
Darker blue. I suppose that could be "uglier", but considering the color scheme and different contrast from 2, I don't think using 2's sprite would have fit in as well.

>Worse Bonus Games
Honestly, this is the one thing where I purely think you're wrong. They look a bit nicer, are less frustrating to play, and give you a greater sense of progress. It felt like every time you messed up a special stage in 3, it was because YOU messed up. 2's Special Stages sometimes feel like "bullshit" and while design-wise that may not be the case, that's certainly the feeling that I know it generally gives people.

>Stupider Plot
Neither game really has a plot. Sonic 3 introduced knuckles and the master emerald and that's about it.

>Great Miss/Hit Ratio for Good Songs
Which ones exactly? Songs are generally taste and preference but this is the first real time i've heard of someone saying they disliked some of 3's songs.

[Anonymous No.537686]

>>537667
>Sonic is a generally stronger platforming series than Mario, and why I believe that Mario 3 is the best mario game.

[Anonymous No.537693]

>>537680
Not him, but...

>disliked some of 3's songs
It's not really a question of dislike - they're just really forgettable and generic for the most part, whereas Sonic 2, and to a lesser degree 1, had some extremely catchy and memorable tunes.
Granted, S3K does have the Hydrocity Act 1, which is awesome, but most of the others just sound very "generic pop" and tend to become a bit grating after a while.

The other things he mention, I'd hardly consider an issue - for me, it's mainly just that I find the level designs incredibly boring. Where some of the better games, including Sonic 1 and 2, make me want to keep playing, S3K's levels just feel like torture by boredom.

[Kage !!CKhi3Y7AOqx No.537706]

>>537693
It's really hard for me to say anything in response because i've played all 3 games a dozen times over. I feel like all the sonic games except CD have memorable soundtracks and a drive that makes me want to keep playing.

[Anonymous No.537709]

I think Sonic Advance 2 is the finest 2d game in the series.

Please don't hurt me.

[Anonymous No.537716]

Playing through Sonic CD now and it's entirely forgettable. The layouts are bad and unoriginal, the stages just feel like rehashes of the 1st game's stages.
The timewarp concept is interesting but not fully realised and just confusing and distracting.
The special stages are terrible and needlessly difficult.
I don't understand the hype about the music as both versions suck . The Megadrive Sonic games have far greater quality music than the CD's cobbled together 90's CD sound.

[Anonymous No.537719]

>>537634
I prefer the master system one a bit because it's more responsive than the genesis one. Sonic on the master system was released a few months after, and like most master system ports of genesis games they did an awful job in replicating it which I'm glad because it really makes the gameplay feel better.

>>537667
But Mario 3 has less momentum than Mario 1 and 'Mario 2' is kind of in between depending on the character you're playing.
Sonic 1 on the genesis and master system shift pacing from faster running areas to slower platforming, more often on the genesis it switches the master system one seems to emphasize the platforming heavier the farther you get in.

[Anonymous No.537731]

>>537719
>like most master system ports of genesis games they did an awful job in replicating it which I'm glad because it really makes the gameplay feel better.
Well, it's not really a port at all, just a completely different game that happens to have the same name.
But seriously, SMS Sonic better than Genesis? Nope. They don't even have the loops and stuff that are the hallmark of Sonic.

[Anonymous No.537729]

Okay, I know everyones thinking it, but yeah knuckles chaotix was the best sonic game.

[Anonymous No.537757]

>>537693
>Hydrocity Act 1
>Not Based Act 2

[Anonymous No.537762]

>>537757
Act 2 is almost as forgettable as most of the other music. Act 1 is the catchy and memorable one.

[Anonymous No.537774]

>>537762
>Act 2 is almost as forgettable as most of the other music. Act 1 is the catchy and memorable one.

[Anonymous No.537781]

>>537762
If you say so; I feel the opposite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPYzgCI6Q1I

has a catchier tempo for me; very active overall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1K1rV9kFs6I

is good, but doesn't quite get stuck in my head the same way. Certainly not bad tho; has a jazzyyetpop sound to it

[Anonymous No.537808]

>>537781
I think what puts me off about HC Act 2, as well as some of the other songs in the game is that there's just too much going on at the same time, and it becomes a bit grating on the ears. It's like they just added a lot of unnecessary noise that drowns out the catchy main theme of the song.

The samples/instruments used in S3K are probably also one of the reasons I don't find them as enjoyable as S1 and 2's music. It just sounds too "poppy". It's like they tried to simulate the sound of generic 80s pop, and succeeded to some degree, except that it doesn't really work very well as game music.

[Anonymous No.537850]

>>537808
Music can often be 'too busy' or 'not busy enough' to a respective ear, so fair enough.

As for 80s pop, hopefully this doesn't start THAT conversation again, but it's not 'like they tried'; the music was heavily inspired by 80s pop, although whether or not that fits vidya I suppose is in the eye of the beholder.

[Anonymous No.537883]

>>537781
Lol, both are those are terrible and pale in comparison to anything from sonic 1 or 2

Lava Reef shits all over that
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wo_4R17gYSY&list=PL3320E8419504AFDA&feature=player_detailpage

[Anonymous No.537893]

>>537883
>pale in comparison to anything from sonic 1 or 2
Agreed.

Lava Reef is pretty decent as well, but Hydrocity Act 1 is more catchy.

[Anonymous No.537901]

>>537808
I'm gonna have to agree with >>537850 that it's just like your opinion man.

S&K (with S3 in second place) music is the best in the series for me, exactly because the feel a bit more complex than past entries. There's always a little flair or something for you to notice underneath the main theme.

[Anonymous No.537925]

>>537901
Are you high?

S&K has some good tunes but for consistently good music Sonic 2 wins with Sonic 1 a close second.
Sonic 3's music is totally forgettable

[Anonymous No.537937]

>>537925
This.

[Anonymous No.537943]

>>537925
Like I said: >opinions

[Anonymous No.537961]

>>537925
The only S3 song that is forgettable to me is Launch Base. The rest are great. "Too busy" never even occurred to me.
opinions

[Anonymous No.537990]

>>537961
>"Too busy" never even occurred to me.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I think to me it is important that the music, including its pace fits the situation. If it doesn't, the whole thing feels off. That's a frequently recurring problem in Sonic 3.

[Anonymous No.537991]

>>537961
Yeah well.
You're just a faggot

[Anonymous No.538001]

>>537991
I'd still totally buy you a coffee or something

[Anonymous No.538004]

>>537990
My main problem lies with Marble Garden
I keep wanting to sing the Knuckle Dusters lyrics

[Anonymous No.538015]

>>538004
This?
>http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR01526/<wbr>

[Anonymous No.538032]

I always liked sanic 1 the best. Then again I also prefer the first streets of rage game. Both of them feel closer to the original concept to me instead of just being an update of that concept. Maybe it's just muh nostalgia goggles.

[Anonymous No.538037]

>>538015
>http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR01526/
Yeah

[Anonymous No.538043]

I can't really think of which one I like more because I've played to death. Even when I found I wasn't enjoying the Advance/Rush games I couldn't just go and play the old ones because there was just nothing left in them for me. I don't do speed runs or anything wacky like that so, even though its my favorite little trilogy of games, I just can't play them anymore

[Anonymous No.538052]

>>538015
>>538037
It's interesting to note that this actually shows that the song can be made orders of magnitude better, and in fact rather catch, by simply changing the instruments and removing some of the high-pitched noise of the original.

[Anonymous No.538064]

>>537541

Mario 3 got pretty hard in the later levels, and the hammer bros in the first were shit on a stick.

[Anonymous No.538070]

>>537709

The Sonic Advance series was damn excellent. Would you believe they sold Sonic Advance 3 in Scholastic book orders? Sega's crazy.

[Anonymous No.538104]

>>537541
>>538064
SMB1 and 3 were fairly challenging in places, but not unfairly and brutally so.

SMB2j (aka Lost Levels) gets frankly ridiculous in places, but is still manageable since it at least gives you unlimited continues.

When people think of hard games, it's usually the brutally unforgiving ones that come up - the ones that have very limited (or no) continues and no save or password system.

[Anonymous No.538109]

>>538070
Passable.
Passable.
Not excellent

[Anonymous No.538137]

>>537693
Sonic 3 had the best boss themes of the whole series, objectively speaking. And why does everyone forget about Ice Cap zone act 2? Or Flying Battery Zone act 1? Or Hidden Palace? Or Sky Sanctuary?

[Anonymous No.538143]

>>537709
It always gets too much hate, though I still don't think it's as good as the first one.

[Anonymous No.538169]

It's not hard to beat CD.

Most overrated Sonic game.

[Anonymous No.538165]

>>538137
>And why does everyone forget about Ice Cap zone act 2? Or Flying Battery Zone act 1? Or Hidden Palace? Or Sky Sanctuary?
Probably because they're too far into the game, and everyone quit playing out of boredom long before even getting to them.

But yeah, the Ice Cap music is pretty good too. Still not as good as Hydrocity Act 1 though. Or any of the Sonic 2 music.

[Anonymous No.538179]

>>538137
>And why does everyone forget about Ice Cap zone act 2? Or Flying Battery Zone act 1? Or Hidden Palace? Or Sky Sanctuary?
Aren't half of those from Sonic and Knuckles?

[Anonymous No.538193]

>>538137
>Sonic 3 had the best boss themes
The major boss theme is decent, but still not as good as Sonic 2's.

[Anonymous No.538196]

>>538193
SOnic 2's is so good it's looped ten times before you even notice

[Anonymous No.538228]

>>538196
It very well could have, if there were any bosses in the game that took that long to kill, but since most die within 10 seconds or so, that's not very likely to happen.

[Anonymous No.538515]

>>537009
Why is this so hard

[Anonymous No.538530]

>>537595
It sill has the physics that the classics are known for. It just applies those physics more creatively. It actually uses closer to its full potential than 1, 2, or 3K.

[Anonymous No.538579]

>>538515
http://info.sonicretro.org/Game_Development:Sonic_the_Hedgehog_3

>Wanting people to be able to play the game as they intended, Sonic Team came up with the idea of "Lock-On Technology," which would make the next game released (titled Sonic & Knuckles) "lock on" to the previous title through a specially designed port in the cartridge. It was only with the two cartridges together that the true version of Sonic 3 could be played, with all three characters, bonus rounds, and the fourteen Special Stages.

You tell me, man

[Anonymous No.538658]

>>538579
They were still released independently of eachother . And they should be appraised as such no matter what the fucking Sonic Team intended. If it was meant to be one game why wasn't it released so?
Answer: it wasn't so stop fucking referencing them as one game

[Anonymous No.538662]

>>538579
By your logic, the Star Wars, Harry Potter, and Twilight are just three movies

[Anonymous No.538704]

The idea that Sonic 3K music is forgettable while Sonic 2 music is amazing is baffling. I have to strain to remember any Sonic 2 music other than Chemical Plant and Hill Top, and the latter is only because as a kid I thought it sounded like it was made entirely of fart sounds.

[Anonymous No.538724]

1 isn't really hard. I 1-lifed the game a few months ago, and I'm AWFUL at video games.

Then again, it's really hard to die in Sonic.

[Anonymous No.538732]

icecap fucking sucks jesus christ

[Anonymous No.538771]

I got spoiled on having spin dash in Sonic Jam for the first one so rarely do I ever break out the Genesis cart unless I'm playing on my Nomad. May actually try to play through Sonic 1 without spin dash.

Favorite will always be Sanic 2. Dat music.

[Anonymous No.538779]

>>536730
>unfortunately

Unleashed has the honor of revitalizing the franchise, and while it's pretty obviously the first one of its kinds, it is a good and fresh game aside from stretch the armhog. No shame breh. But I'm absolutely positive I would love the werehog sections if they were Knuckles instead.

[Anonymous No.538802]

>>537086
it was supposed to showcase realtime sprite scaling aka the only thing 32x did differently

[Anonymous No.538839]

I think Sanic 1 is the purest platformer of the series. After Green Hill, it's pretty much strict platforming. As the series progressed it introduced more obtuse level design.

For the record, I prefer 2 and 3&K to 1.

[Anonymous No.538986]

>>538658
>It says why they weren't released as such but I'm just not gonna read it

They were released separately because of cartridge space.

>>538662
>All 6 Star Wars were made at the same time and were originally going to be one massive 12 hour movie but there wasn't enough space for it all so it was broken up and released separately

That's how stupid and misinformed you sound right now.

[Anonymous No.538995]

>>538779
Kind of. I guess. It still clung to a shitty gimmick to pad the game out because they didn't put enough content into the good side of the game.

[Anonymous No.539004]

>>538986
>They were released separately because of cartridge space
The combined size of S2 and S&K is still below the 4MB limit of the Genesis.

[Anonymous No.539048]

>>539004
But would it cause lag?

[Anonymous No.539053]

>>539048
Wut?

[Anonymous No.539067]

>>539004
Okay, reading more on the page, it was not due to space constraints like I'd previously believed (I was sure I'd read that somewhere, but oh well).

Either way, the games both still have the same assets, were made around the same time, were released in the same year, have the same special stages, and have the same story arc flowing between them.

And yes, what he devs had in mind DOES count. They decided to split THE GAME into two, meaning it was created with the mindset of ONE COMPLETE GAME split between two cartridges.

[Anonymous No.539180]

>>538986
>They were released separately because of cartridge space.
>They were released separately
>released separately
>separately

Two differently released games released at different times, stop treating them as one you turd-goblin

>pic related; it's a delicious hamburger for you Amerifat to drool over in your mother's basement

[Anonymous No.539214]

>>539180
>literally everything else you just said doesn't count just because

I get what you're saying. There were two separate releases. For two different halves of the SAME GAME.

[Anonymous No.539223]

>>539214
Were was Tails in Sonic and Knuckles, I mean, he was a playable character in Sonic 3, if it is a part of the same game where is he in the latter half?

[Anonymous No.539238]

>>539223
he wasn't in it as they are 2 separate games

[Anonymous No.539276]

>>539223
Play the game as it was intended and find out!

[Anonymous No.539281]

I'm probably the only person that preferred the lack of spindash in Sonic 1.

I liked running fast and curling into a buzzsaw. Felt so badass.

[Anonymous No.539305]

>>539276
I played the games, I owned Sonic and Knuckles when it came out and it was always regarded on its own. It was not until the internet that this bullshit about it being one game came about.
Sonic 3 starts at the end of Sonic 2, Sonic and Knuckles starts at the end of Sonic 3. What's so hard to comprehend that each game is an entity of its own, each a piece of the narrative.

[Anonymous No.539349]

>>539180

That's the worst looking burger I've ever seen. I've seen scat porn with better patty spreads than that.

[Anonymous No.539359]

>>539305
I get what you're saying, man. They're two separate physical releases. They can be appreciated independently of each other.

I'm just saying that they're both incomplete halves of the same game, that happened to be released apart.

They didn't begin pre-production on Sonic 3, complete Sonic 3, release Sonic 3, and then begin pre-production on Sonic & Knuckles. They were made at the same time, by the same team, using the same assets.

You get what I'm saying, right?

[Anonymous No.539384]

>>539359
I don't wanna turn this into an age thing or a "hurr durr you wasn't there at the time" thing. But I would like to know your age and whether you played the games upon release or are speaking with an educated hindsight and played them with that knowledge that they were both developed at a very similar time.

[Anonymous No.539451]

>>539384
>21, 3rd year in college
>Played 2 and 1 a lot when I was younger
>Played 3 and Knux separately on the Sega Channel briefly
>played S3K as a complete game for the first time some time in middle school

To be fair, I never really thought at the time that they were the same game when I played them on the Sega Channel. But then again, I was a 6 year old playing a video game, I wasn't putting any thought into anything.

All of that doesn't undermine the way the games were made, and how identical their mechanics are in near every way. I mean yeah, only one has Tails and only one has Knuckles respectively, but that's literally about it. K doesn't build off of 3 the way 3 builds off of 2, or 2 builds off of 1.

But I can this is going to turn into a "intention of the devs vs the perception of the player" debate.

[Thatmew !y.aZ6nV0iM No.539564]

I was 5 in 1994 and even I thought something was off when every single stage song from Sonic & Knuckles is in Sonic 3's sound test, not to mention level names clearly visible in the level select menu.

I mean, yeah, when S&K came out we all recognized it as Sonic 4 but doesn't change the sheer fact that S&K is a glorified expansion pack with Sonic 3's leftovers.

[Anonymous No.539580]

>>539451
well intent does not equal final product. They were both released separately with some time between each release and I personally think there is a stylistic difference between S3 and S&K. evident in music and level design.
And since I asked of you I aught to return the favour
>currently 29
>second ever console was the Megadrive/Genesis Sonic pack with first 2 games, birthday gift of 9 or so
>Got S&K as a later birthday gift
>only ever rented S3 never really impressed with it
>always regarded each game an entity of it's own and still do

[Anonymous No.539583]

>>539564
No one asked you tripfaggot

[Anonymous No.539604]

>>539595
Oh goodness why did I call him the OP. Never mind.

[Anonymous No.539595]

>>539580
>currently 29
You're getting dangerously close to wizard status, OP. Leave 4chan forever and get laid before it's too late.

[Anonymous No.539612]

>>539595
Not OP, read thread dipshit

[Anonymous No.539630]

>>539580
I can understand someone treating them separately if they experienced them that way. I just can't do that myself. It was always one game to me when I finally played it fully. 3 and K just seem so....disappointing independently. Neither one, to me at least, added one thing that didn't already add (sans playable characters of course). The gameplay formula, in terms of how to get Emeralds, Sonic abilities, the powerups, etc were all the same.

As for level design, that could partly be attributed to increased difficulty as the game goes on. 3's levels were full to the brim with GO FAST moments, with K's levels being more platforming oriented.

[Anonymous No.539657]

Sonic 1 hard? Boy, you never played Sonic 2 for Game Gear. That is truly hard. Frequent leaps of faith because of the big graphics on the small screen size? Horribly hard to control hang gliders, an intensely cheap first boss, two extremely hidden and out of the way emeralds (it took me 4 hours of playing to figure out where Gimmick Mountain's emerald is, shit) and plenty of drowning to do? That's not even including the final level.

My friend, if you want a hard Sonic game, get Sonic 2 for Game Gear. Emulating it is fine, but if you want to feel the heat for real, you gotta buy that shit.

[Anonymous No.539681]

It was always know that S3&K was how it was SUPPOSED to be. I was 13 when S&K came out and already knew it was the second half of the Sonic3 game. That information wasn't some obscure magical fact only revealed on the internet.
It's like Telltale Games and their episodes of a single title.

[Anonymous No.539707]

>>539681
Still yet to graduate Junior High I see

[Anonymous No.539727]

>>539707
Sonic and Knuckles came out nearly 20 years ago.

[Anonymous No.539813]

>>538779
I actually hadn't thought about knuckles. They would still need to pace it better.

[Anonymous No.540073]

>>534653

hard? is that supposed to make you feel better or something? none of them were tough. drop the attitude, fuck face

[Anonymous No.540101]

Sonic 1 is my favorite too OP. but it is not the hardest, and is in fact probably the easiest of the classic sonic games.

[Anonymous No.540289]

>>539727
ZOMG DIT IT REALLY? XD

[Kage !!CKhi3Y7AOqx No.540368]

>>537719
>Mario 3 has less momentum than Mario 1
Less than the first 2-3 worlds of Mario 1, yes. The pacing really slows down and it makes the game not as fun. I think Mario 3 has consistent pacing for most of the game Except World 7

[Anonymous No.540413]

Sonic 1 feels like its own separate game. Its hard to compare it with the others.