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/vr/ - Retro Games

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5311980 No.5311980 [Reply] [Original]

Im sure you guys get this thread a lot but I couldn't find a sticky.

Where do I get started on understanding TVs and how they connect to peripheral devices in a retro gaming context? I want to get a crt tv to play NES and SNES with as little input lag as possible, but Im not sure where to start.

>> No.5311990

This input lag boogeyman is getting out of control.
Just plug in a composite cable and play.

>> No.5311995

Just get any CRT you can at a size you want; s-video and/or component is ideal, but anything with composite will be functional enough and still have zero lag. PVMs are a meme, don't listen to anyone who recommends them, and do not bother with RGB unless you're european, which I'm assuming you're not.

>> No.5311996

>>5311990
fpbp

>> No.5312000

>>5311990
Where can I find simple information on that?

An addendum to the OP, I'm not looking for anyone to explain it (unless they want to), I'm more asking for where I can find information because I haven't had much luck.

>> No.5312012

>>5311995
I have an AV cord for my NES and one of the screw-on antenna connections for my SNES. Is that fine?

>> No.5312023

>>5312012
Yes. If you have a CRT you're good. All of them have zero input lag other than HD CRTs.

>> No.5312026

>>5312012
Thats RF and the worse on terms of picture/sound quality OP
Do your self a favor and find a tv with RCA(yellow,red white cables). Or if you are missing the cables buy composite or if you are lucky and have a TV with S-video get that av cable for your snes.

>> No.5312030

>>5312012
I'd get an S video cable for the SNES if you want it to look slightly better but just plug it straight in and it should be just fine

>> No.5312045

>>5312012
As other anons have mentioned, get an S-video or composite cables for your SNES, but otherwise you're ready to play.

>> No.5312223

>>5311980
>I want to get a crt tv to play NES and SNES with as little input lag as possible, but Im not sure where to start.
I am always shopping for a better CRT. However, I have been shopping for a "better" one for 2 decades. Know what connections you want, and go from there. In this day and age you can get quality CRTs for as little as $20. At this point, I only get models from mid 2000, but would consider an older "quality" unit. I will not buy a CRT that does not have at least S-video input, and will not buy one that has mono sound. 20" is the smallest one I will buy. I try to stay away from flat screen CRTs, but I do have a 20" Samsung ONLY because it had a lot of various inputs including Component (Red/green/blue plugs), composite (yellow plug) and Svideo (round with 4 pins). Larger sets get heavy fast, so make sure you know what kind of size you can lift and fit into whatever space you have. Sure having a 36" CRT sounds nice until you realize that you may not have the space for it. There are a few different technologies in how the image is presented as well. Shadow Mask & Aperture Grille are terms you will see describing the technology. Which is better is always up for a spirited debate.

>> No.5312462

>>5311980
>Where do I get started
The manual

>>5312223
>s-video
>using tv speakers
into the trash it goes

>> No.5312473

>>5312462
Oh great, now we're getting the audiophiles in here. Just burn this thread to the ground now.

>> No.5312485

How do you connect the SNES to a composite cable? I don't see the connections like on the NES

>> No.5312497
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5312497

>>5312485
Proprietary cable, yo,

>> No.5312501

>>5311995
>PVMs are a meme, don't listen to anyone who recommends them, and do not bother with RGB unless you're european, which I'm assuming you're not.

This. I am being completely honest as someone owning pvm/bvm. Don't waste your time. If a consumer set was worth $50, a PVM might be valued at $65 if you're basing the value on quality and how they look. PVM cost $600 for a 20" set, consumer cost <$40 for the same size. Add in all the modding, special cables, etc and a 20" PVM setup will cost you $1K if you have a decent amount of consoles.

It's just not worth the hassle for a 15% increase in quality. The other thing to understand is, the "quality" results in super sharp pixels, making 8 bit look worse, 16 bit look a tiny bit better, like 5-10% better IMO.

Just find literally any consumer crt, though component and s-video would be prefered.

>> No.5312502

>>5312485
The "multi out" thingy covers that. You need a Nintendo one or a compliant third party replacement.

>> No.5312505

>>5312485
You mod it to do rgb and bypass composite

>> No.5312508

>>5312000
>or anyone to explain it (unless they want to), I'm more asking for where I can find information because I haven't had much luck.

Youtube has a fuckload of info, my life in gaming, retrorgb has info, but be aware, they are shilling pvm/rgb as the be all end all, but it's not. RGB is alright but it's seriously in the realm of mainly existing to please autists at this point.

>> No.5312510

>>5312505
I found the faggot.

>> No.5312527

Thank you kind anons for all the help

>> No.5312531

>>5312473
>Just burn this thread to the ground now.
Ignore the trolls. They don't have any power if they don't have any (You)s.

>>5312508
>it's seriously in the realm of mainly existing to please autists at this point.
They seem to be off their meds tonight and/or mom's new boyfriend Tyrone beat on her pretty hard this time and this is how they cope.

>> No.5312551

Playing with an original NES on a CRT you'll have around 30ms input lag. This is pretty much unnoticeable, but if you're completely OCD about getting the least amount of input lag possible, you can achieve better results using a computer emulating (you'll need a video card that can output to a CRT though). This is a lot of work and really not worth it.

With an SNES you'll have 50-60ms input lag. Still, for most casual games, not a problem. If you were to go back and forth between a properly setu emulation system intended to reduce this lag and the real thing, you would probably notice the difference if you have quick reflexes. If you really want to get into SNES games, the hassle of setting up a super fast emulation system might be worth it. Start out on original hardware and see if you want to go further down the rabbit hole by reducing lag, playing romhacks, using save states, etc.

>> No.5312570

With the original hardware SNES on a CRT, you get about 3.5 frames of input lag. This can be measured by anyone, and is not debatable although uninformed hoarders will desperately try to claim otherwise.
With a raspberry pi, you can get between 1-2 frames if you set it up properly, which no one here does. This configuration changes include video_threaded=false, video_driver=dispmanx, video_max_swapchain_images=2
for example.

With a really nice PC configured correctly, you can get less than 1/4th of a frame of input lag. It's pretty amazing where emulation is today, not only re-creating the original experience accurately but actually improving upon it.

>> No.5312578

Note, this is only true for raspberry pi with the very latest updates and no shaders. If you were to use a setup from over a year ago, you'd have double the input latency of OG SNES hardware (around 100ms) even with the most optimized settings. The PC setup wouldn't have been nearly as effective a year ago either. It's really amazing what's happened recently in the past year with regards to input lag.

>> No.5313019

>>5312473
>anything better than shitty builtin tv speakers
>audiophiles
wew lad

>>5312505
>mod it to do rgb
God damn this thread is full of dumb underage

>> No.5313192

>>5312570
That 1-2 frames lag through the RPi is in addition to the ~3.5 from the SNES software.

>> No.5313206

>>5313192
False, software lag is included in the measurement.

>> No.5313236
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5313236

>>5311995
>>5312501

>> No.5313246

>>5313206
Which software? Modified game or runahead? If modified game, you can do that on real SNES too.

>> No.5313671 [DELETED] 

>>5311980
>Im sure you guys get this thread a lot but I couldn't find a sticky.
>>>/vr//CRT/
>zoomers

>> No.5313673 [DELETED] 

>>5311980
>Im sure you guys get this thread a lot but I couldn't find a sticky.
>>>/vr/CRT/
>zoomers

>> No.5313674

>>5312501
I had a couple PVMs as well, one I threw away and the other I sold to a redditor for $50.
>>5313236
seething

>> No.5313678

>>5311980
>Im sure you guys get this thread a lot but I couldn't find a sticky.
>>>/vr/CRT
>zoomers

fuck.

>> No.5313704

Scope a crt off the side of the road, hope it's a trinitron, and plug and play. Input lag is never ever going to be an issue on crt's, and anyone that tells you otherwise is not to be trusted.

>> No.5314731

>>5313704
>Input lag is never ever going to be an issue on crt's
only if you completely avoid HD CRTs like Sony WEGAs

>> No.5314750
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5314750

>>5314731
WEGAs aren't HD.

>> No.5314787

>>5313674
>seething
Now now, no need to be so prickly. People go nuts one way or the other over all kinds of hobbies. I do, and clearly you pair do to.

>> No.5314860

>>5313671
>>5313673
>>5313678
god you're such a fucking newfag. don't ever try to call someone out again.

>> No.5315298

>>5311980
I know this is turning the thread upside down, but can anyone tell me a non-HD crt that HAS input lag? I dont think it exists

>> No.5315317

>>5315298
It's not the tv that has lag, it's the original hardware. It's not a huge deal, but you can reduce it by using a computer instead and outputting to the CRT. You can play a SNES with the equivalent of a NES's input lag that way, and a NES with as close to 0ms lag as is basically possible in any gaming context.

>> No.5315340

>>5315317
I realize now that what I am asking about probably has never existed.What I was asking is if there are any old sets that have built in image processing hardware which attempt to digitally process 240p and upscale it, therefore introducing some lag like new TVs do.

For the record though, I dont think I'm good enough to recognize hardware lag on snes. I have beaten some pretty tough games on there and never considered hardware lag until I saw people talking about it here. I use real hardware AND emulation because I am a gigantic faggot

>> No.5315353

>>5315340
HD CRTs, and some CRTs from around 2005-2006 have some slight digital processing. In general, avoid the widescreen silver box CRTs and youre fine. Those aren't common anyway.

>> No.5315380
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5315380

>>5313236
>spend hundreds of dollars on 13" PVM/console mods/RGB switcher for a picture quality that nobody other than literal autists would notice or even give a fuck about
or
>get a good sized consumer CRT that supports RF, composite, s-video, and component/spend $10-$20 on cables cables with the best video output per system

Tough choice.

>> No.5315778

>>5315380
Once again, see >>5314787