[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/vr/ - Retro Games


View post   

File: 65 KB, 549x413, ap,550x550,16x12,1,transparent,t.u4.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5281287 No.5281287 [Reply] [Original]

Is there a name for this thing they did on the genesis where enemies or bosses would be made of different floating sections, like Vectorman? It looked ugly as fuck, why is it in every goddamn genesis game?

>> No.5281307

>>5281287
it's called circumventing sprite size limitations.

>> No.5281318

>>5281307
Most importantly, it's called circumventing VRAM limitations by having smooth 32bit tier animations using basic trigonometry.

>> No.5281319

>>5281307
I thought it would have a fancy name like "blast processing" or some shit.

>> No.5281327

>>5281287
We call this hierarchical animation

>> No.5281331

>>5281319
"Blast processing" is the marketing term used to convey how the system can move all that crap at once without slowing down to a crawl thanks to the fast and able CPU inside the Genesis.

>> No.5281338
File: 6 KB, 320x240, ballz-3d-fighting-at-its-ballziest_5[1].png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5281338

Ballz did the same thing.

>> No.5281350

>>5281338
And sonic, hard corps, gunstar heroes and many, many other games. It was like the mode 7 of the genesis.

>> No.5281352

>>5281287
>It looked ugly as fuck
And shitty Mode 7 sprites-as-backgrounds don’t? Get the fuck outta here.

>> No.5281357

Neither the SNES nor the Genesis can rotate sprites. But spheres are special in that they look the same at every rotation.

>> No.5281363

>>5281352
>And shitty Mode 7 sprites-as-backgrounds don’t?
They also look like crap. It's not either one or the other, you retarded shit.

>> No.5281364

>>5281287
>It looked ugly as fuck
Not when done done right https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zyjWmgLSHM

>> No.5281394

>>5281350
>It was like the mode 7 of the genesis.
SNES also used that trick a lot, though: Mega Man X2 first boss, Mega Man X3 first boss, Sparkster, Super Turrican 2, etc

>> No.5281398
File: 1.67 MB, 250x228, fgc024btlvl02.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5281398

>>5281287
This is low quality zoomer-tier bait, but it was not a "genesis thing". Code-based animation was widely used in sprite-based games even back in 3rd gen games because it's an efficient way of creating elaborate motion without having to store full frames of animation

>> No.5281740
File: 54 KB, 480x360, hqdefault.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5281740

>>5281287
>why is it in every goddamn genesis game?

Do you mean, "why was it used in every 16bit game?".

It was more than just a Genesis thing.

>>5281331
>>>5281319
>"Blast processing" is the marketing term used to convey how the system can move all that crap at once without slowing down to a crawl thanks to the fast and able CPU inside the Genesis.

no, Blast Processing was a real thing. Sega's marketing team pulled it out of a technical manual for programmers. Blast Processing refers to the systems hardware Direct Memory Access (DMA) channel which is built into the video display processor. which could "blast" data at higher speeds from memory to the video display processor.

The marketing team just liked the word "Blast Processing" from Sega's own internal manuals and ran with.

>> No.5281768

>>5281287
Ur mum is made of floating sections u sperg

>> No.5281826

>>5281287

Wasn't it called ellipsoid technology.

>> No.5282053

>>5281364
>that commentary
Jesus fuck...

>> No.5282060

>>5281287
I remember vector man attempting to be sega's answer to donkey Kong country. Didn't even come close.

>> No.5282064

>>5282060
You're right it didn't come close because it vastly exceeded the trash known as DKC

>> No.5282079

>>5282060
>>5282064
Even now, after all these years, the console war rages on. In the grim darkness of 2019, there is only war...

>> No.5282115
File: 176 KB, 440x404, Peter.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5282115

>>5281338
Hehehe, thing

>> No.5283916
File: 1.40 MB, 500x370, 1547016152218.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5283916

>> No.5283946
File: 5 KB, 320x224, Gradius_II_Stage_7d.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5283946

This thread is now about bosses made of modular sprites

>> No.5283975

>>5283946
>>5283916
>>5281338
>>5281287
I'm working on something like this for my retro FPS. Characters are made up from modular sprites arranged on an IK-driven skeleton, as the individual sprites/body parts move/rotate along, allowing for very fluid motion and things like accurate limb/foot placement. The idea came to me while playing Terra Nova: Strike Force Centauri which used the same technique over 20 years ago.

>> No.5284083
File: 127 KB, 500x438, Aladdin-Snake-Jafar.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5284083

>>5281287
>>5283946
sphere sneks are my fav emenies in retro games

>> No.5284089
File: 13 KB, 336x162, boss_ouroboros.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5284089

>>5281287
snestards cant multi joint because of the snes shit sprite limit

>> No.5284094

>>5284089
Eh technically the SNES has a higher sprite limit and line limit than the Mega Drive.

In practice the line limit is equal or worse because the SNES has an incredibly dumb 2 sprite size limit / square sprites only which cause the line limit to get eaten up by literally invisible pixels.

The total sprite limit is also lower because managing all those sprites is CPU / VRAM dependent and the SNES is just plain slower in that department

>> No.5284213
File: 3.33 MB, 480x352, giphy.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5284213

>>5283946
RKA had some good ones

>> No.5284252
File: 1.44 MB, 480x360, giphy.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5284252

>>5283946
ALTTP had a lot of good ones too.

As anonymous already said, the SNES could display plenty of sprites, but its CPU wasn't powerful enough to handle lots of complex sprite position changes per frame. So you get fairly simple patterns like pic related.

>> No.5284257
File: 1.60 MB, 480x270, giphy.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5284257

>>5283946
Even gameboy games did this.

>> No.5284393
File: 70 KB, 640x480, chadladdin.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5284393

>>5284083
> Genesis Aladdin is objectively superi--

>> No.5284427

>>5281287
>>5282064
Vectorman would be so much better if it had good enemies.
You spend half the game swatting mosquitoes.

>> No.5284434

>>5284257
Funny, that doesn't seem to be done with sprites, but by swapping background tiles

>> No.5284452

>>5284252
Looks like mode 7 tbf (to b frank)

>> No.5284485

>>5284452
Mode 7? How so?

>> No.5284490

>>5284485
The way the sprites are just swaying on a plane, but not respective to themselves.

>> No.5284492

>>5284434
Possibly, but the vertebrae don't seem to align with the BG. Especially in the first neck thrust of the gif, the second vertebrae seems to be less than 1 tile below the first.

>> No.5284501

>>5284452
It can't be Mode 7 because you can only have one background in that mode.

>> No.5284502

>>5284490
Hmm, well Mode 7 only allows one background layer. So that makes it impossible for mode 7 to be used because in the gif the tail is moving in front of the dungeon floor. The reason why the sprite animation is limited is because the SNES CPU can't handle complex sprite position calculations per frame.

Probably what programmers did is created a list of values for where each sprite should be during the tail swing, and when they draw the tail they just offset those values by the position of the tail, so that the tail is in the correct location on screen. In Mega Drive games you have more dynamic animations like the sprites will react to being hit by the player.

>> No.5284509
File: 89 KB, 805x959, 1541009919081.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5284509

>>5282079
Except now their favorite console is so nostalgic that it's practically a part of who they are. There's no way to change views that entrenched. It is truly an endless war.

>> No.5284565
File: 66 KB, 778x225, 49million.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5284565

>>5284509

>> No.5284630

>>5284565
It's like my own private Vietnam. Hold me, bros.

>> No.5284672
File: 62 KB, 844x594, Aladdin-1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5284672

>>5284393
That was fucking embarrassing. Even the 8-bit version had a proper giant snake

>> No.5284874
File: 464 KB, 600x339, Fire Pro Wrestling.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5284874

>>5283975
The long running Fire Pro Wrestling Series used something like that too. Instead of pre baked animations for everyone of the 250+ fighters in the game, they built them using individual segments for for the head, body, arms and legs, so they can used pre defined animations with any of the characters.

This also allowed (free) DLC with new moves even back on the Dreamcast. In fact you could fill all four Memory Cards of the connected controllers with all the (free) content they provided on their site.

>> No.5285398

>>5284213
Even had THE boss in the post that you're replying to

>> No.5285420

imagine having a modular sprite dick haha

>> No.5285432
File: 9 KB, 304x224, space_harrier_rev_a_8751_315-5163a.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5285432

Did any other games combine Mode 7 with blast processing this effectively?

>> No.5285435
File: 12 KB, 384x256, Boss-rtype1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5285435

>>5285420
pretty common desu

>> No.5285440
File: 496 KB, 499x348, JParcade.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5285440

>>5285432
Sega invented Mode 7

>> No.5285441

>>5284083
>we still haven't fought Snake Jafar in Kingdom Hearts despite the countless Agrabah rehashing

WHY

>> No.5285442
File: 25 KB, 336x224, 1388701487484.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5285442

>>5285420
>>5285435
r type had sprite vaginas as well

>> No.5285450
File: 177 KB, 640x448, 785846-937639_20070321_001.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5285450

>>5285420
check out my tree dick

>> No.5285514

>>5284393
This doesn't get brought up nearly as much as it should in those discussions. I had the Genesis version as a kid, and even though I liked it, I gotta admit that final boss was a huge letdown in every aspect. On the other hand, when I saw the one on SNES I was blown away and felt like I had been had by the GEN version.

>> No.5285573

>>5285432
that's not mode seven but then again blast processing isn't a real thing that exists so sure, Galaxy Force II was VERY GOOD at combining Mode 7 with blast processing!!!!!!!!!!

>> No.5285809

>>5284874
Which Fire Pro is this?

>> No.5285825

Umm a lot of people liked it not just me lol. so shut the hell up dude.

>> No.5286239

>ugly

It's fuckin kino, m8

>> No.5286240

>>5283975
Very cool. I wish you luck with it, anon. Can never have enough retro FPS projects. Got any pics and stuff to share?

>> No.5286465

>>5281287
I'll forgive treasure, Konami and the rest of the jap developers that used this, but certainly not Blue Sky.
I think it works in the other games. I like it in Dynamite Heady. I feel like they designed that game around that aesthetic.

I'm glad you agree at least on Vectorman, I always thought that game looked and sounded like garbage. Never understood the hype.
I always hated how western games opted for using much darker palettes in their games too.

>> No.5286469

>>5286465
*hugs full body anime pillow*

>> No.5286512

>>5286469
I'm SORRY that I only like to look at graphics that don't make me vomit (-_-;)

>> No.5286513
File: 2.74 MB, 320x224, giphy.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5286513

>>5285398

>> No.5287051
File: 2.98 MB, 320x240, A decade of Fire Pro Wrestling.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5287051

>>5285809
When looking for animations I was searching for Fire Pro Wrestling D for the Dreamcast, since this was the version when I noticed how they did all the sprites. But it looks like I picked the wrong gif, since this is from the most recent iteration "Fire Pro Wrestling World" (PS4 & PC), that uses the same methods, but just at a much higher resolution.
(on a sidenote that animation is a reference to the notorious fight between Don Frye and Yoshihiro Takayama https://youtu.be/cp9WN5DCCGw )

I'm not sure how they did it before FPD, but I guess the new engine was used since 6 Man Scramble on the Saturn, but I'm not sure about this, since the sprites of the Saturn and Playstation iterations (and of course the older games and the two GBA games as well) look different to the Dreamcast game (and the following three games, 2 for PS2 and 1 for PS4/PC that used the same system as the Dreamcast version).

>> No.5287080

>>5282079
got a chuck out of me

>> No.5287131

I don't really like composite sprites, or what ever you want to call it. I could always tell the difference between a detailed animation, and several disjointed sprites moving around together.

Sometimes it is done better than other times, of course, but it is always a lesser effect.

>> No.5287152
File: 17 KB, 588x370, huitzilparts2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5287152

Huitzil and Sentinel were initially made up of a bunch of separate parts that were individually placed together for each frame of animation. But this ended up being really RAM intensive, so they cut down on it in later games. That's why Huitzil's animations changed so much in each new game, and why Sentinel in MvC2 is so much jerkier than in CotA.

>> No.5288235
File: 768 KB, 500x310, tumblr_nk8mbgsBPR1sibomdo10_500.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5288235

I like the way this animation was used in Gundam Battle Assault. They look like model kits. GBA is pretty underrated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGE9Q_GwxQk

>> No.5288247
File: 797 KB, 622x386, tumblr_nk8mbgsBPR1sibomdo9_1280.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5288247

>>5288235
>>5287152
I wish more games used giant sprites like these

>> No.5288392

Why does people like vectorman but hates Earnest Evans?
They should at least hate both

>> No.5288397

>>5288392
Earnest Evans is a legit good game but its first impressions are terrible.

>> No.5288406

>>5288397
I'll admit it, the sausage whip was stupid looking even as a kid

>> No.5288424
File: 202 KB, 792x866, 1445443514183.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5288424

>>5288392
>>5288397
>>5288406
Based ragdoll Ernest Evans

>> No.5288470

I remember thinking it was a really cool effect, almost like 3d. Sadly I don't recall enjoying any game that used it heavily, but it never annoyed me or anything.

>>5281352
Damn son... Are you that caught up in "the war" or are you just projecting shitty character flaws? Either way please stop.

>> No.5288495

>>5288397
It is. Its related game, El Viento, is also great but it utilizes just 3 separate objects for the main character.

>> No.5288918
File: 24 KB, 330x530, Beelzebub_Castlevania_6646.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5288918

sup dudes

>> No.5288934

>>5285573
>blast processing isn't a real thing that exists so sure

No, youre wrong.
>>5285514

>> No.5288935

Wrong post
>>5281740

>> No.5288940

>>5281768
Kek

>> No.5288960

>>5284874

tee hee

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iu5B2esR0-4


Is the latest fire pro for pc worth picking up?

>> No.5288962

>>5288918
I never realized they forgot to add a midsection / pelvis. I guess because by that point chances are the fight is going to last like 5 seconds or so

>> No.5288972

>>5284509

Bruce Lee has been a lot less inspirational since it came out that he was a pill popping drug addict that ran around on his wife.

>> No.5289138

>>5281740
can't SNES "blast" data to VRAM with DMA transfers just as well?

>> No.5289141

>>5289138
It's more that it trickles data than it blasts, really.

>> No.5289198

>>5289141
gimme numbers? SNES is raw ~2.68MB/s maximum.

>> No.5289217
File: 107 KB, 300x198, 1533847290373.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5289217

>>5289198
I don't know, I was trying to make a joke.

>> No.5289242

>>5281338
I thought the backgrounds Tomball was awesome if the fighters had a anime look instead of a ball look it would of been a hit game.

>> No.5289246

>>5282060
The soundtrack and graphics are awesome for vectorman but the gameplay is crappy

>> No.5289270

>>5283975
Die Hard Trilogy and Driver used it well too.

>> No.5289289

>>5284393
How did the Disney animators drop the ball so hard here?

>> No.5289325

>>5288960
Fire pro now has the new Japan pro wrestling license
That's why they have Kenny omega,hiroshi tanahashi and okada on the cover.

>> No.5289334
File: 81 KB, 550x550, 6239194_sd.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5289334

>>5284874
The need to port this game for the Nintendo switch.

>> No.5289342

>>5289334
get it on steam, desu.... workshop is full of wrestlers.

>> No.5289558

>>5289270
have to check that out, thanks.

>> No.5290909

>>5288972
Never heard that

>> No.5290921

This stuff always makes me think of the segmented-neck bosses in games like Joe & Mac.

>> No.5290968

>>5289558
One of the die hard games I seen clips of looked awesome had nothing to do with the movie but still looked cool.

>> No.5290972

>>5288235
That game looks awesome

>> No.5290991

>>5281287
Blast processing

>> No.5290992

>>5281740
Anyone have a source on this? Not that I don't believe, I just want proof for future discussions

>> No.5291083
File: 19 KB, 320x180, chuck rock.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5291083

>>5290921
Lot of prehistoric games like Chuck Rock with ball neck dinosaurs, dragons and octopussi bosses did this trick.

>> No.5291092
File: 30 KB, 640x480, intro(10).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5291092

>>5281287
I guess megaman x2 for snes is ugly as fuck

>> No.5291109

>>5288235
DESTROY IT!
OVERHEATING!

>> No.5291129

>>5288247
that's a big zam

>> No.5291183

>>5281394

The Mega Man X games on SNES used a hardware coprocessor similar to the Super-FX chip

>> No.5291206

>>5291183
Damn, thats shit. Genesis came out in 89, snes in very late 1990 and it still wasnt as powerful as the genesis. Holy fuck thats sad, but nintoddlers will still try and say it was more powerful

>> No.5291228

>>5291206

I wonder why none of the MMX games were ever released on the Mega Drive

>> No.5291229

>>5291228
Capcom did not support the Genesis. They developed very few games for it.

>> No.5291265

>>5289138
>can't SNES "blast" data to VRAM with DMA transfers just as well?

Yeah the SNES DMA was in the Ricoh CPU. The DMA in the Genesis/ Mega Drive is in the Yamaha graphics chip and worked to benefit graphics acceleration. It also has a higher memory bandwidth to work with.

>> No.5291272

>>5291265
>Yeah the SNES DMA was in the Ricoh CPU.

IS, not was.

>> No.5291285

>>5291228
Capcom had a unwritten deal with capcom and konami to keep megaman and castlevania exclusive to Nintendo.
That changed towards the end of the 16 bit era.

>> No.5291293

>>5291228
The X series was built from the ground up as "Rockman, but for Super Famicom". Literally the initial development name was "Super Rockman"

>> No.5291887

>>5285442
>l... lewd

>> No.5291946

>>5289289
That has nothing to do with the animation. The snake is just tiny