Baldur's Gate (BG)

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Baldur's Gate (BG) Anonymous Sat Dec 8 09:59:13 2018 No.5205754 [Reply] [Original]

So, who's still loading up this game every once in a while?

What's your favourite party composition?

Do you like the Beamdog remake?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 10:10:10 2018 No.5205771 I wanted to bleach Hexxat but SJWs at Beamdog wouldn't let me

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 10:17:25 2018 No.5205779

>>5205754
i'm a good ways into bg2. right after beating bg1. both beamdog versions.

they're basically the old games with some decent mods. at this point the bugs are mostly patched up. a few bugs...but nothing you can't get around if you search forums.

i'm at firkraag right now. he keeps casting heal when he's low. so i think i'm going to off-screen damage him with cloudkill until he exhausts his heal spells then go in for the kill.

i really don't care if people play the originals or the beamdog versions. besides the cutscenes...they aren't terrible different...but at the same time i'm very much a casual player and nowhere near as hardcore as some people.

i've beaten the originals twice in my life so this is my third run through the game...my first with enhanced.

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 10:31:21 2018 No.5205797
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Beamdog is a guilty of a number of different crimes. Here are the major ones.

1. The Enhanced Editions are essentially a collection of free mods that had existed for nearly twenty years. Beamdog gathered them all up, slapped "Enhanced Edition" on it and resold it as a new product. There's very very little in the Enhanced Editions that wasn't already out there, and most of it is stuff you don't want (like obnoxious character outlines).

2. The games didn't sell so well and the originals were still far outselling them, even twenty years after their release, so Beamdog had EVERY digital distributor stop selling the originals and ONLY sell the Enhanced Edition. If you want to buy a digital copy of the originals now, they're "bundled" into the Enhanced Edition. Now these scumbags can claim sales from people just wanting to buy the originals as their own.

3. The infamous 600+ bugs on launch. The game is still riddled with bugs (as even a perfunctory glance over their forums show) but the fact that it took nearly two years for them to get a game that had been working fine for 20 years to reach playability after launch is telling of their wild incompetence.

4. This is where we get to the ones that really piss people off. Beamdog couldn't just remaster the game, they had to fuck with the content too. New dialogue for existing NPCs like Jaheira, Viconia, Safana, Kivan, et cetera was written in to make the characters more progressive and leftist friendly. Beamdog shills will argue that "adding content isn't changing content XDDD" but it is when the new content changes the core personalities of the existing characters. This is in addition to adding a slew of their own LGBT (hitherto there were none in Baldur's Gate) NPCs, all flooded with OP attributes and magic items to encourage people to play them despite their cancer.

5. Siege of motherfucking Dragonspear.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 11:13:14 2018 No.5205869 >>5205797 can't tell if this is a meme or just autism either way, I hope you're doing okay anon

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 11:20:20 2018 No.5205885 >>5205754 Me 3 Paladins and 3 Clerics The remakes dissapointed greatly, sadly. Too many bugs and other issues. I did like the concept of "arena mode" though. Black Pits and The Thay place in the sequel.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 11:29:05 2018 No.5205905 >>5205797 ok, let's not turn this into a beamdog hate fest. I'm ok with your opinion and you having it. but let's focus on the game instead.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 11:30:30 2018 No.5205907 >>5205885 >3 Paladins and 3 Clerics so how do those alignments go together? having a good time or are people already bashing each other's heads in?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 11:31:32 2018 No.5205912 >>5205779 have you played dragonspear in between? if so, how did you like it?

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 11:32:59 2018 No.5205915

I've been playing a ton of these games last few years, since there's not really any comparable PC RPGs to play instead.

I usually favor a small party, start with myself and Imoen, then pick up Khalid, then pick up Coran, then pick up Branwen at the very end.

Small party both helps XP gain greatly, getting you to the very important level 3-4 range fast, and means you never need to worry about pathfinding nonsense.

I always play Ironman/no reload challenge.

Some of my favorite classes are Fighter-Thief, Blade, and if I just want a tank, Cavalier.

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 11:35:12 2018 No.5205918

>>5205912
Dragonspear is decent. It runs on the infinity engine, so everything good about Baldur's Gate UI and combat system applies. It does feel more like Icewind Dale, though.

Can't complain about the first new AD&D2e game in 15 years too much, in my opinion. Its certainly better than most other isometric RPGs, like Pillars of Eternity, by virtue of using a good, tested combat system.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 11:52:48 2018 No.5205942 >>5205907 No man its holy warband. At BG2 i did; Paladin with Cavalier Kit Paladin with Inquisitor Kit Paladin with Undead Hunter Kit 3 Clerics serving good gods and Here we Go.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 11:54:37 2018 No.5205951 >>5205885 Tried an "elven babe" party last time. Just made some proper portraits and gave them elfy classes. It was fun too. It was multi-class mostly. Fighter/Mage and the such. Weaker party due to this but hell of a time.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 11:58:00 2018 No.5205960 >>5205907 Will try Kara-Tur Party next. Samurais/Kenshai, monks and Ninjas and anything else i can fix up.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 12:10:53 2018 No.5205975 >>5205915 I forgot to add, if I were to play on the disk version, I'd play single class Cleric, for Diablo 2 style necromancer skeleton hordes. I don't usually, though, I like BG2 kits and engine too much.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 12:23:35 2018 No.5206001 >>5205905 The original game was Great. Sadly, beamdog failed.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 12:24:38 2018 No.5206004 >>5205754 The customization one of the best parts of the game.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 12:28:17 2018 No.5206008 DA > og fight me.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 19:55:43 2018 No.5206946 File: 1.00 MB, 1920x1080, baldur_s_gate_party_time_by_sirtiefling-d8i6nev.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5205754 F/M pc, Imoen, Viconia, Jaheira, Minsc and Dynaheir is my go-to party.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 22:31:02 2018 No.5207206 >>5205754 literally just started my first ever playthrough of bg1, heading to neshka now.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 22:59:36 2018 No.5207246 >gibberlings3 down AGAIN where do i get my mods now

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 9 03:31:43 2018 No.5207591 Ia the enchanted edition really worse?? Where the fuck can I get the originals from? Currently playing fallout and wanted to play bg after but I didn't know about the changes

Anonymous Sun Dec 9 03:36:36 2018 No.5207595

>>5207591
>Where the fuck can I get the originals from

Why do people ask dumb questions like this? The same place you get everything else from: Amazon or Ebay.

And no, the Enhanced Edition is fine. There's some nerds angry that the devs put some tranny in, but the originals have the sort of shallow leftism in them. There's literally an NPC in original BG1 who walks up to you and starts bemoaning the colonization of the new world. Not even making this up.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 9 05:32:19 2018 No.5207723 >>5207591 Originals are included with EE I think, at least on GOG.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 9 09:06:40 2018 No.5207958 >>5205797 Thanks for the heads up. I was considering playing this again, now i won't be. Next thing you know there will be 3000 different fucking gender potions. No thanks.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 9 09:32:10 2018 No.5207995 >>5207591 They used to be buggy as fuck. Nowadays thought, its the reverse. They work a lot better than a modded vanilla ever would. People are still butthurt over the OC they put in, though I would recommend ignoring the new content EE advertises.

Anonymous Sun Dec 9 09:34:22 2018 No.5207998
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>>5205915
>ironman BG

Absolute madman! Far as I got was no reload+only save on rest and by the end of the game I had had lots, lots of characters permanently gibbed. I remember losing 2 or 3 to fucking lightning in the course of the game. Thats the #1 companion killer

Anonymous Sun Dec 9 09:46:49 2018 No.5208019

>>5207595
That's the most shitty excuse I ever read
There is absolutely nothing wrong about that dialogue and trying to belittle it as the same kind of rancid political propaganda, or shitty current year lolsorandumb 'humor' that beamdog used the ee to do is just fucking dishonest and retarded
Some guy giving his opinion about the newly discovered fucking continent (in a pleasantly written dialogue) and some jackass tranny who goes up to you to tell you that it has no other personality than being a tranny, adding retarded companions and adding shitty disgustingly bad lines to existing ones is the 'same kind of shallow leftism', really? For fuck's sake... Either you're 12 and trying really fucking hard to fit in on /pol/ (which I'm pretty sure you aren't) or you're a fucking dishonest shill with sympathies for Beamdog's political propaganda that you're trying to hide not-so-subtly. Either way, just fuck off, no one needs another thread full of this dishonest boring fucking shit.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 9 09:57:53 2018 No.5208042 >>5208019 Cant i just play a game without chicks with dicks?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 9 10:04:13 2018 No.5208050 >>5208042 This is 4channel, all chicks have dicks now. 4chan is never coming back.

Anonymous Sun Dec 9 10:04:59 2018 No.5208052

>>5205797
There are people posting right now who don't know what WeiDU is. These threads should be full of autistic Black Isle / Obsidian mod fans hungering for their perfect installation and discussing. Like New Vegas people but with a superior game system, True AD&D.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 9 10:06:16 2018 No.5208053 I can't ever play BG or BG2 again. I've played them both to death over the last 10-15 years. Still haven't finished "ThrOB" though, just can't bring myself to slug it out with yet another knobbly demon beast.

Anonymous Sun Dec 9 10:08:37 2018 No.5208058

can we just discuss BG without /pol/s dick in it? original BG and plenty of 90's vidya was full of light leftisms we ignored because we loved the game and because it was the golden age too. Nobodys talking about the EE but you here so stop counter shilling its literally the first post everytime. I would tell you to stop playing BG but you probably just like the drama.

People who care still have their original disks anyway. Where where you getting mad at khalid being led by a vastly more competent and wiser strong woman and shar-teel hating weak men

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 9 10:10:03 2018 No.5208059 >>5207246 >tfw 15.7 GB preinstalled mega mod handmade over weeks of study years ago and copied to DVDs with original sources Is this even possible now even with new and updated shit or what? It ran like a charm

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 9 10:22:16 2018 No.5208081 >>5208058 >muh /pol/ >muh light leftism >muh Khalid is totally the same thing as the piss poor shit beamdog added Fuck's sake fuck off already

Anonymous Sun Dec 9 10:36:27 2018 No.5208102

>>5208052
Fucking this
Finished my first bg 1 and 2 run with scs a few days ago, had a really good time
Used the 'classics', fix pack, ub, cdt tweaks, widescreen mod
Tried 1ppv4 for the first time, the game looks absolutely great like this (needed biffing to avoid some fps drops though), the higher resolution UI is discreet but makes quite the difference, and I really liked the smoother spell graphics (fuck wings and wizard staves though, didn't even bother installing that shit)
Also NPC stronghold is a really nice one, didn't see a companions taking an out of character decision, giving the planar sphere to edwin was a lot of fun honestly
Always looking for other suggestions, but this setup was pretty good, not changing the core of the game but just being what a fucking EE should have been

Anonymous Sun Dec 9 11:17:39 2018 No.5208174

>>5208081
youre the only one who even KNOWS what beamdog added. everybody else just had to listen to you over and over like a fucking SJW

We would like to discuss BG like nothing else happened. Keep EE out of BG discussion. Its not /vr/ and it only belongs in your zoomer world not mine.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 9 11:20:52 2018 No.5208184 >>5208174 Oh come on now, just fuck off retard, you're doing exactly what you're accusing me of doing

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 9 11:25:43 2018 No.5208197 >>5207206 Hehe, you'll have a blast!

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 9 11:32:19 2018 No.5208218 Who would the "canon" party from BG2 be if there was a BG3 instead of ToB?

Anonymous Sun Dec 9 12:38:01 2018 No.5208310

>>5208218
Going by the "obvious" choices, probably:
Minsc + Jaheira (as per BG1)
Aerie (Minsc's new witch)
Imoen (obviously)
and for the 5th spot either of the following:
Viconia (this one is less obvious, but the MC of Baldur's Gate has always had a soft spot for her, she's the only redeemable evil character, and has no "to the death" conflicts with the rest of the party. Plus, she shows up in the mixed-alignment "BG1 Mission Pack Save" that comes with the original version of TotSC. That, and we're slowly veering into the territory of new BioWare, so you'd probably be able to foursome with all of the romantic interests if you play your cards right.)
Keldorn (the designated carrier of the Carsomyr, which is one of the most recognizable weapons from BG2, also a fan favourite character)

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 9 12:49:10 2018 No.5208328 >>5208310 Sarevok also makes a good candidate for the 5th spot

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 9 12:50:47 2018 No.5208331 >>5208310 Sarevok also makes a good candidate for the 5th spot, that aside this is pretty much spot on

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 9 13:10:54 2018 No.5208373 why can't I bleach Hexxat especially in the era of "Everyone is bi(oware)"

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 9 13:21:12 2018 No.5208387 >>5208331 He said "BG3 instead of ToB", and Sarevok as a party member made his debut in ToB, so I didn't include him even though it crossed my mind. >>5208373 why would you she's garbage in terms of writing and even mechanics

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 9 16:11:34 2018 No.5208709 Didn't beamdog back down on the SJW shit after getting review bombed?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 9 17:07:42 2018 No.5208873 >>5208387 ywn have Hexxat's thick thighs wrapped around you and her pretty Chultian toes in your mouth

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 9 17:43:13 2018 No.5208985 >>5205905 >>5205869 First time here I take it. This pasta is always posted in every single Baldur's Gate thread.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 9 18:13:45 2018 No.5209083 Isn't there a mod to just filter the sjw additions ?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 10 02:49:02 2018 No.5210089 How is Beamdog even real like nigga just ignore the NPCs hahaha like just don't fucking play siege of dragonspear hahahahahaha

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 10 05:02:13 2018 No.5210201 >>5209083 They didn't change anything, just added 4 characters. You can easily distinguish them and avoid. All this shit writing that was mentioned is from Siege of dragonspear, beamdog's game in between of two baldurs games. Just don't play it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 10 08:14:00 2018 No.5210394 >>5205797 Based What Beamdog did is even worse than what happened with DN3D World Tour.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 10 09:52:44 2018 No.5210547 >go to wipe out Bodhi >she ambushes me the moment I enter the graveyard >spawns six vampires right on top of my party >all buffs are removed the moment you enter the area, so no preparing with NPP This encounter is dildos.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 10 09:55:53 2018 No.5210558 >>5210201 pretty sure they added new commentary for original characters, such as Minsc making a Gamergate reference.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 10 10:45:42 2018 No.5210694 >>5210558 In their shitty SoD game, not in the bg/bg2 EE.

Anonymous Mon Dec 10 10:52:41 2018 No.5210716

WOTC owns the rights to the original bandits gate games. When Beamdog made the enhanced editions they were allowed to add new content such as characters and the Black Pits or whatever it’s called. However as far as I’m aware they’re not allowed to change or alter the original script in anyway besides maybe typo fixes.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 10 10:54:07 2018 No.5210718 >>5210716 *Baldurs Gate

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 10 11:10:07 2018 No.5210746 >>5210547 Don't travel at night

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 10 11:12:49 2018 No.5210749 I know you can "turn" Viconia mid-romance, but how viable is it on a pure good character before she leaves at +20 reputation? I don't want to do any goofy shit like killing NPCs.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 10 11:18:12 2018 No.5210767 >>5208102 >wings and wizard staves que?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 10 11:24:19 2018 No.5210779 >>5210746 Pretty sure time is always fixed so you enter at night no matter what.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 10 11:25:31 2018 No.5210783 >>5210749 Just turn into slayer to lose your rep.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 10 11:25:36 2018 No.5210784 >>5205797 Based

Anonymous Mon Dec 10 11:54:26 2018 No.5210860

>>5210749
Get the relevant Happy Patch component from the aTweaks mod and don't bother with the broken and pointless reputation system which implies that evil people don't want to reap the benefits of being seen as heroes everywhere to fulfill their own needs.
It would make sense if the design was to have the evil NPCs be a few tiers more powerful at the price of forcing you to compensate for it with lower rep (you can see traces of this design with Korgan and Edwin), but Viconia isn't even the best cleric and none of the evil NPCs are that much of a standout, power-wise.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 10 12:06:24 2018 No.5210901 >>5210860 I love to hear her complaining.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 10 12:21:24 2018 No.5210947 >>5210901 That's a completely different patch. As far as I am aware, "removed bitching at wrong reputation extremes" and "evil NPCs won't leave at high rep" are two different components.

Anonymous Mon Dec 10 14:53:26 2018 No.5211307

>>5207595
>And no, the Enhanced Edition is fine
It's really not. Even if you ignore the GamerGate references, the hamfisted tranny that only managed to upset the LGBT community and all the overt crap that their team pushed into these games, the most unforgiveable bits are the changes to the core characters.

Viconia, the Drow priestess of the primordial goddess of Evil has a conversation about skin color oppression in the EE and how POC have been victimized by it. It's wildly out of character for her and disgusting.

Kivan, the near-Paladiny LG Ranger that in the originals would attack Viconia purely for being a Drow and therefore evil becomes BFFs with the *evil Orc Blackguard* EE NPC that talks about being evil and torturing people, despite Orcs being an even older enemy of Elves than the Drow.

Then there's the unique EE dialogue about how some party members smell like stinky cheese! Did some1 fart? lol because they stink like stinky fart cheese LMAO!

EE should've been engine upgrades, they should not have touched the characters or story content.

Anonymous Mon Dec 10 14:55:42 2018 No.5211313

>>5211307
>Kivan, the near-Paladiny LG Ranger
Did we play the same game?
Kivan is a CG ranger driven entirely by revenge and there's nothing "compassionate" about him, he's a murderhobo with a righteous streak.
I know EE has plenty of issues and that all of the NPCs suck, but it's really not enough of a dealbreaker to turn entire threads on shitposting about trannies, especially if you are fundamentally mischaracterizing characters from the original. This doesn't help your position of authority at all.
Just install the mod that removes interactions with EE NPCs and be done with it.

Anonymous Mon Dec 10 15:40:55 2018 No.5211414

>>5211307
>skin color oppression in the EE and how POC have been victimized by it
huh?? been a long time, but I remember an interaction with Dorn, where he was bitching about people that just by looking at him wouldn't deal with him, so Vic says something such as, yeah I know what it's like to being judged solely by the colour of your skin (since she's a black elf). It's no where as near as to that fancy sentence you wrote down you miserable specimen. Most of you people bitching about the new content exaggerate and twist everything to make it seem better to attack... fallacious faggots. Also the tranny, he's just "there" says his shit, you can chose to tell him "cool story bro" and be done with it... jesus christ I suppose you didn't play back in the day when the active modding community of the old versions where mostly freakish fags making Imoen incest mods or Edwina romances, NPC mods that were mostly women? it's not strange to me that new content of the game had references to fags or the content itself having another approach.

Anonymous Mon Dec 10 15:56:23 2018 No.5211428

>>5211313
>Did we play the same game?
Apparently not, otherwise you'd know Kivan comes to blows with several of the original BG1 characters for being evil. Except Dorn from EE because the EE characters are automatically beloved by everyone.

>>5211414
Easy Amber Scott.

Anonymous Mon Dec 10 16:04:46 2018 No.5211441
File: 2.15 MB, 1440x900, kivanvic.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5211428
>Apparently not, otherwise you'd know Kivan comes to blows with several of the original BG1 characters for being evil.
Only Viconia. He doesn't care about Kagain, Edwin, Montaron, Xzar, Shar-Teel or any of the other standard evil party characters. Come on, anon, this data has been datamined to bits now, Kivan fights Viconia ONLY.
And if you look at the actual Kivan vs Viconia dialogue as it is rendered in-game before they come to blows, you'd have a hard time figuring out who is the evil one in this scenario.
>Except Dorn from EE because the EE characters are automatically beloved by everyone.
Except Dorn and Ajantis will kill one another the moment they're given the chance to do so. Also, Edwin doesn't like Neera, and although he won't kill her, he is meant to leave the party she is in.

Can you try again, but this time with legitimate criticism that doesn't rely on lies and half-truths? I'm all for criticizing Beamdog - I do that on the daily, and still haven't bought the EEs until the day I have legitimate problems running my usual mod setup on the originals - but can you stop undermining your own position?

Anonymous Mon Dec 10 16:10:34 2018 No.5211453

>>5211428
Oh, and let's not forget the sheer number of people that are triggered by Hexxat into full smiting mode - that's Mazzy, Anomen, Keldorn and Aerie. So much love all around for these EE characters!

Or about the amount of Good NPCs in BG2 that aren't triggered by some of the most repugnant mass murderers the original BioWare release has to offer - like, for example, how Korgan / Mazzy turns into a cute love affair between two polar opposites, and how Keldorn ends up having a talk about how he respects Korgan but is wary of his bloodthirst in combat. Or how Mazzy, the little not-quite-paladin, doesn't want Viconia dead like Ajantis and Keldorn do.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 10 16:14:18 2018 No.5211463 >>5211441 >>5211453 Viconia is truly the best girl and did nothing wrong.

Anonymous Mon Dec 10 16:16:51 2018 No.5211471

>>5211441
Was 90% sure he also fought Tiax. But the point remains that he's a good-aligned Elven Ranger and he attacks Viconia for virtually no provocation. Meanwhile, an Evil-aligned Orc, his race's primary foe he's best friends with. It's wildly out of character, just like you lot trying to pretend that Viconia taking a break to discuss skin color privilege is in character.

Anonymous Mon Dec 10 16:18:39 2018 No.5211474

>>5211453
>the poor EE characters!
Yeah. Like the Drow Archmage that comes with Robes of the Archmagi. Or the fact that besides Sarevok (and actually some have better than even him), damn near every one has more Attribute points than every other original character. Or that they come frontloaded with powerful magic items that easily serve them through the game.

But hey. Edwin doesn't like Neera. Phew. I guess you'll just have to take Baeloth who literally has Edwin's most OP magic item himself instead.

Anonymous Mon Dec 10 16:21:38 2018 No.5211481

>>5211453
>Halflings have the same racial prejudice against Dwarves that Elves do against Orcs
lolwat? You do know the reason that the God of the Orcs is called "One-Eye" is because the God of the Elves cut it out and so Orcs and Elves are among the oldest enemies in the setting, right?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 10 16:24:39 2018 No.5211489 >>5211474 The EE NPCs have an item as OP as Edwin's bullshit amulet?

Anonymous Mon Dec 10 16:25:24 2018 No.5211494

>>5211471
>Was 90% sure he also fought Tiax
So you went from "Kivan fights ALL evil NPCs" to "I was 90% sure he also fought Tiax". It's almost like you didn't know shit about what you were talking about and thought no one would check.
>you lot trying to pretend that Viconia taking a break to discuss skin color privilege is in character.
Cite a post where I said that this particular dialogue was okay. I didn't. I find most of Beamdog's banter to be poor and mostly written by out of touch people. I dislike the amount of zany humour introduced by characters like Neera, and I hate absolutely everything about fucking Rasaad.

That doesn't mean every fucking Baldur's Gate thread has to be infested with you fucking tumblrinas getting your panties in a twist about a throwaway video game line to the point where 40% of the posts in the thread are shitposting about trannies and the other 40% are blatant lies to validate said shitposting about trannies.
Talk all about how EE is a fucking cash ripoff, how every single EE release is riddled with bugs that take years to fix, how many of the EE releases do away with useful functionality of the original (character arbitration button is gone in IWDEE), how every single time you get your EE release auto-updated on Steam you are very likely to have completely fucked your mod install and need to restart, and how every single NPC has glaring issues with overexposure. Please, talk about *THAT* instead of unironically sounding like the bizarro universe equivalent of the PC police.

>>5211474
More moving the goalposts!
Yes, those characters all have those issues. The overexposure on EE NPCs compared to everyone else is another big flaw of writing and is especially grating when Dorn or Neera doesn't ever shut the fuck up. You're still better served actually listing these examples instead of lying about how Kivan is a Lawful Good "Paladin-like" character who kills every evil NPC on sight except Dorn.

Anonymous Mon Dec 10 16:28:01 2018 No.5211506

>>5211489
Originally the Drow Mage came with a ring (because you only get one Amulet slot and you get TWO ring slots) that did the same thing. Someone told me that it was eventually removed. I don't remember if it was a mod that removed it, or Beamdog, or something. I can't stomach the EE enough to keep up with their updates. But as I recall, unlike Edwin, he also came with Robes of the Archmagi, 50% magic resistance, some enchanted gear besides, and like 90pts of attributes. So if they did nerf the ring, now he's only significantly better instead of overwhelmingly better than the best character in the game pre-EE.

Anonymous Mon Dec 10 16:28:24 2018 No.5211508

>>5211481
What does Mazzy's racial prejudice have anything to do with it? Mazzy was mentioned because she's an ACTUAL Lawful Good character (unlike Kivan) who ASPIRES to be a Paladin (unlike Kivan) and yet unlike the actual Paladins of the games (Ajantis and Keldorn) DOESN'T want Viconia dead on sight because she doesn't think drow blood makes you irredeemable. Nothing here is about racial prejudice.
>>5211489
Dorn starts with a 2 handed sword that's stronger than any other magical two handed sword until you get Spider's Bane, and even then it's really good -- in a game where magic weapons are really scarce and a big, important milestone cause normal weapons break all the time. He also does have great stats.
Rasaad is an utterly worthless character even though he starts with an entire assortment of special items, but alas, nothing can save the Monk from being the shittiest BG1 class and a late-bloomer designed specifically for BG2.
Baeloth used to start with absolutely disgusting equipment, but that has been removed since.
I don't remember what Neera had, which probably means it was the least offensive of all the NPCs.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 10 16:29:56 2018 No.5211515 beamdog basher chumming the waters of the retard pond, spergfish all a-frenzy. >>5211494 matey, your efforts at appealing to simple reason, truth, integrity etc. are wasted.

Anonymous Mon Dec 10 16:36:58 2018 No.5211532

>>5211494
>"Kivan fights ALL evil NPCs"
Literally never said. Why do you have to lie and misframe what others say to strengthen your own points? Do you feel your arguments aren't strong enough on their own without subterfuge and tricks? Scumbags feel the need to scumbag, I suppose.
>Cite a post where I said that this particular dialogue was okay. I didn't.
Oh, the ironing. How did you not collapse under the sheer weight of the hypocrisy between typing the first and then that?

>infested with you fucking tumblrinas getting your panties in a twist
You mean like you are? Rushing into the thread, shrieking and trying to champion your precious game, Scott. Paragraph posting and using the same leftie tactics every damn thread. Strawmanning your opponents then cringing and sobbing when the same happens to you?

Beg all you like, this isn't Reddit and you can't censor where the discussion goes here. You can't force people to not talk about the parts of the game you don't want discussed. Don't like it? Head somewhere with upvotes.

>muh goalposts
Again, people can be critical about different aspects of how EE ruined the game. You and your prolapse can sit there seething about it all you like. But if I want to discuss about how unbalanced the EE characters are, I will. If I want to talk about the crap dialogue and personality changes they forced on the original characters, I will. If I want to call you out on being a leftie Beamdog-shill commie who spams every thread in defense of this nonsense, I will. Again, there's another website for people like you if you don't like it.

Anonymous Mon Dec 10 16:41:58 2018 No.5211543

>>5211515
>matey, your efforts at appealing to simple reason, truth, integrity etc. are wasted.
Thank you!
Can I use this post to just reiterate how much I have no fucking stake in defending Beamdog for any particular reason and how much I fucking hate Rasaad?
He's utterly worthless in BG1 in spite of the amount of welfare he receives, his banter and character arc are both shit, he isn't even fun to play with (Monks in BG1 are useless dart-throwers and in late BG2, where they finally start shining, there's very little to manage with them, not even equipment [I am a huge sucker for on-item active abilities], they basically just exist to be pointed at something and punch it, and even for the supposed overpowered powerhouse everyone raves about late-game, they're still worse at it than any Berserker or Kensai.
Rasaad is fucking boring and if you make the mistake of romancing him, it turns out he is even useless out of game, because your canonical ending is that he creampies you over and over until you pop out seven babies, and then you're ambushed by random unnamed assassins and his epic-level powers available while unarmed and unarmored are, once again, completely useless, so you both die. It's even more egregious than Viconia, the epic cleric, dying to fucking poison.
Fun! Great writing! Fuck Beamdog for creating the most obnoxiously useless in all respects character! They tried to one-up themselves with Hexxat, but even she doesn't suck this much donkey dick.

>>5211532
>Literally never said.
>Apparently not, otherwise you'd know Kivan comes to blows with several of the original BG1 characters for being evil.
Great, you didn't say "all" evil NPCs. You said "several". Later it turned out you meant "I'm not too sure, but I think Tiax". I apologise for this heinous misrepresentation of your bullshit argument.
>the rest of this post
>being this desperate to defend your opinions because obviously anyone calling your bullshit out must work for Beamdog
Kill yourself.

Anonymous Mon Dec 10 16:42:21 2018 No.5211546

>>5211508
You said Mazzy should fight Krogan and said there was as much of a reason there. You keep pushing the Lawful v Chaotic thing (autism, perhaps?) when it was clearly never the original point. It was Good Elf who apparently is readily violent against traditional Elven enemies, vs Evil Orc who apparently is readily violent against everyone suddenly being friends. Dwarves and Halflings are usually allies, or at worst, non-hostile. Elves and Orcs? No. Kivan attacks Viconia for virtually no reason because his kind- good Elves hate Drow. They hate Orcs more. Him deciding Dorn is okay is objectively and demonstrably outside his character based off of in-game evidence. Mazzy meanwhile has never shown to be unreasonably violent or hostile in the way Kivan did. I don't know what's wrong with you where you see parallels here when there clearly aren't.

Anonymous Mon Dec 10 16:43:39 2018 No.5211548

>>5211543
>WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS
Nah, not reading all that. You condense your love for Beamdog, strawmanning and pretending you're not a shill by spamming weak non-arguments against the EE into a smaller post. I'm just not that invested in you, Amber.

Anonymous Mon Dec 10 16:46:41 2018 No.5211557

>>5211546
>You said Mazzy should fight Krogan and said there was as much of a reason there
No, I didn't. They're opposites because she's literally a wannabe paladin and Korgan is a chaotic evil unrepentant bloodthirsty murderer.

Keldorn and Ajantis don't have a personal, human-on-drow grudge against drow. Viconia pings as evil and she's from an always evil race, so they kill her on these grounds. Mazzy doesn't do that in spite of being a literal, wannabe paladin.
>>5211548
>love for Beamdog
How did you beat Baldur's Gate without knowing how to read?

Anonymous Mon Dec 10 16:56:35 2018 No.5211584

>>5211557
Mazzy isn't a Paladin and isn't ruled by Paladin oaths and rules. Her being Lawful Good and a "wanna-be" doesn't matter. And again, you're ignoring the fact that Halflings and Dwarves are ancestral allies while Orcs and Elves are as old of enemies as you can name between any two races.

>making false flag minor incriminations against Beamdog means you can't call me a shill for them, no matter how hard I defend them and shill!

wew lad

Anonymous Mon Dec 10 16:58:25 2018 No.5211587

>>5211546
And you're also forgetting that Mazzy doesn't want Viconia dead. My entire point of this post is that "EE NPCs are loved by everyone" is a ridiculously flimsy argument when put in front of facts (Anon claims Dorn isn't hated or doesn't fight any NPC, which is not true), and that even in BG2 there have been plenty of NPCs that didn't instantly open fire on each other on ideological grounds, but still managed to unite against common foes.

Point is, there's many characters who sound like they should kill or persecute one another, and they don't. And the only thing that says "Kivan is BFFs with Dorn" is literally just this:
>"Vengeance is a powerful motivator. We are not so different, Dorn. I do not like your methods, but perhaps it is not wrong to help you gain your revenge."

Is it good writing? No. Is it even passable writing? Eh, it makes Kivan way too self-aware of how broken a man he is. Maybe if we were to interpret Kivan as a future Fallen Ranger overcome with grief (heaven knows plenty of NPCs don't act like their professed alignment due to alignment restrictions, like how Jaheira is basically Good and Faldorn is basically Evil).

I also think the whole "Elf vs Orc" angle is way too much of a stretch by anon, especially since 1) Dorn is a half-orc, who have more or less been acclimatized into Forgotten Realms societies (although on the other hand the only other half-orc in the Sword Coast at the time of BG1 is Mulahey) and 2) the whole feud over Gruumsh's eye seems to be felt more by Orcs than by Elves themselves. "For me it was Tuesday" and all that.

So yeah, that Kivan/Dorn interaction? A pretty weak spin on Kivan. Still doesn't justify anon's original, heavily misleading argument.

Anonymous Mon Dec 10 17:03:31 2018 No.5211601

>>5211584
>bringing up ancestry
Is this why Kagain and Yeslick want to kill one another in BG1?
>she isn't a Paladin
Her entire point is that she is a self-styled one. Paladin oaths and rules do not say "kill all Drow on sight", and depending on interpretation they say "a Paladin should fall for even associating with evil creatures". By that moniker, Keldorn should fall for knowingly associating with Korgan. That doesn't happen. You know why? Because BG2 plays fast and loose with FR canon where appropriate.

>being this fucking paranoid about shills
There's no point in arguing with you because you've already decided to ignore everything to better fit your autistic worldview. Funnily enough, every single thing I brought up has been a much harsher criticism of Beamdog that not only has been actually researched, but actually impacts players who care about playing the game and not just shitposting about politics.

Here, have me on the record - don't buy the EEs. I never did, and I don't care to. I think it is ugly, unwieldy, and it blew the honeymoon period of its release by being more bugged than the originals. I still find it pays to be informed about what you're criticizing so you don't look like a fucking fool.

Anonymous Mon Dec 10 17:10:04 2018 No.5211624

>>5211587
Halflings and Drow aren't racial enemies. Orcs and Elves are. If you had a Githyanki and a Mind Flayer tried to join the party, there should be an issue. If you had an Aquatic Elf and a Sahuagin tried to join, there should be an issue.

What's the matter with you that you keep trying to set up combos like Halflings vs Dwarves or Halflings vs Drow, pretending like they're anything remotely alike Elves vs Orcs?

Anonymous Mon Dec 10 17:11:25 2018 No.5211628

>>5211624
>Halflings and Drow aren't racial enemies
Neither are Humans and Drows, but Keldorn and Ajantis kill Viconia. So does Valygar.
>What's the matter with you that you keep trying to set up combos like Halflings vs Dwarves or Halflings vs Drow, pretending like they're anything remotely alike Elves vs Orcs?
No, I'm not.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 10 17:13:06 2018 No.5211634 >>5211628 The entire axis here is Good vs Evil, you nimrod. By what you're saying, Kivan should be goading you into murdering Drizzt.

Anonymous Mon Dec 10 17:16:51 2018 No.5211643

>>5211601
>Kagain and Yeslick
Oil and water, they clearly despise each other for personal reasons. Kivan doesn't attack Viconia for personal reasons, she's polite and kind toward him when he provokes combat. Can you not argue in good faith at all?

>Because BG2 plays fast and loose with FR canon where appropriate.
Nah. Dwarves aren't commonly evil, Drow are. Keldorn and Ajantis don't associate with creatures that are commonly known to be evil. And while Korgan is violent and bloodthirsty, he's never overtly evil. You're assuming people know his alignment because you know. That's called metagaming.

>I brought up has been a much harsher criticism of Beamdog
Okay Amber. Then you won't feel the need to justify a good aligned Elf that's willing to resort to violence immediately against Elven enemies being friendly with an evil aligned Orc.

GG no RE

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 10 17:18:11 2018 No.5211648 >>5211628 Are you being deliberately retarded? >hur dur no humans attack her except the ones with alignment vows who attack her because of her race That's the goddamn point, windowlicker.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 10 17:18:35 2018 No.5211649 >>5211643 >metagaming Someone forgot Detect Evil exists. Can you not argue in good faith?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 10 17:19:38 2018 No.5211650 >>5211648 >Valygar >oaths against her alignment

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 10 17:21:22 2018 No.5211653 >>5211649 Yes, and there's no canon on him casting it on Korgan. Surely you're not so retarded that you can follow that, right? >>5211650 >second edition rangers don't have alignment restrictions / oaths >valygar is a she ohnonononono

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 10 17:24:43 2018 No.5211662 >>5211653 >casting Detect Evil on someone >on someone It is an antievil sonar, anon, this is highly unlikely. >Valygar is a she What? >bringing up ranger oaths Then why is Minsc fine with Viconia?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 10 17:25:36 2018 No.5211663 WHY CAN I NOT SHOVE MY BIG WHITE COCK IN HEXXAT'S TIGHT CHULT HOLE?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 10 17:46:03 2018 No.5211691 >>5211474 >Drow Archmage who

Anonymous Mon Dec 10 18:09:21 2018 No.5211778

I ran into two bugs recently which I couldn't find anything online about, anybody know about these:

First, my Bard leveled up to level 9 and his pickpocketing skill (which I had in the 90s) reverted back to 30 with no points to add to it.

Second, I'm at Durlag's Tower I'm at the part where you have to fix the gong mallet to hit the gong and then use the switch to turn on the machine, do all that stuff. I took the two gong parts to the anvil thing that fixes them, I click on it, nothing happens. I took the switch to the machine I'm supposed to turn on, I click on it (when the mouse because a circular prompt) nothing happens. I tried having it in my inventory, I tried having the all in one persons inventory, I went online and looked at a play through to copy exactly what I was doing, I went and did it and still there is no response. The items just sit in my inventory broken. Anybody know about this bug?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 10 20:13:33 2018 No.5212071 File: 110 KB, 210x330, jon.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Why does he wear a mask?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 10 20:21:39 2018 No.5212093 >>5212071 that's his face n00b

Anonymous Tue Dec 11 09:26:03 2018 No.5213325

>>5211662
>sonar
How do people play these games and not know basic abilities?
>Minsc fine with Viconia
What personality trait does Minsc alone have that isn't shared with all the other Paladins and Rangers in the game? Would it be a very obvious and frequently referenced mental retardation?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 09:08:48 2018 No.5215964 Why do so many people fall for the Fighter/Kensai - Mage meme when the Blade kit is the objectively superior choice?

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 09:27:42 2018 No.5216002

>>5215964
Fighter/kensai gets more proficiency pips and mages can reach higher magic levels than blades.
Also, improved haste+kai > offensive spin.

Blades have some great HLAs and are more practical to build than a dual class but they're not objectively superior.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 09:32:05 2018 No.5216008

>>5215964
There's absolutely no way this is true. Blade will have vastly inferior THAC0 (Thief progression hurts), much worse damage (no weapon mastery [though that might not be a big deal if you have vanilla BG2 rules], no Kai), much worse on-demand damage without resting (with just a number of long-term buffs, any F/M hybrid can keep going on their own power, whereas Blade's offensive power is tied to the amount of Spins they have left). Then, you also don't get high-level Mage spells or any of the Mage HLAs, which are, overall, superior to what's available at the Bard's disposal.

And even if Blade was somehow better for any of the fringe reasons (smoother middle-game due to not having to transition from Fighter, access to Time Traps and UAI), which it isn't, Berserker->Mage is still a much safer character, having access to helmets and an overpowered defensive mechanism that protects you against Maze, Imprisonment, and a number of other stuff that is save-or-die.

"F/M" isn't a meme - to say so is ignoring years upon years of well-documented wisdom on the game. Kensai/Mage also has one more ability that's really useful - under Time Stop, with Kai, you know exactly how much damage you will deal with your flurry of attacks under Improved Haste, which, if you know the HP of your enemies (and some people playing SCS/Ascension/whatever do), means you know exactly when an enemy will fall down.

Blade is a fun class. By the virtue of being a caster, it's better than most classes in the game. It's still not better than F/M. Not at damage dealing and not at the amount of offensive spellcasting (a F->M is pretty much a single-classed mage, but with nine-to-thirteen levels of fighter, and mages > bards when it comes to spells). It might have fun flavor and is a very convenient class, and it does provide lots of utility to a party, but any F/M wins in combat performance. Multi or dual.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 09:35:21 2018 No.5216015

>>5213325
>sonar
It is very comparable to a sonar or radar. You cast it at-will, and it pings every single Evil creature in an area. It makes it very dubious that any paladin would never notice that their companion is evil. On the other hand, other anon seems to imply that Detect Evil can be cast specifically "on someone". Which it can't; that's how Know Alignment works.
>What personality trait does Minsc alone have that isn't shared with all the other Paladins and Rangers in the game?
Why is it relevant all of a sudden, other than for moving the goalposts? Valygar's persecution and killing of Viconia doesn't even have anything to do with his oaths, he attacks her in rage after a random interaction with another NPC.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:11:52 2018 No.5216160

>>5216015
m8 talking about moving goalposts when your debate has moved so far off its original trail is retarded
defending the ee's character writing in any way shape or form, which in the end, this shit is all about, is about equally as retarded
now if you could both shut the fuck up I don't think the thread would be any worse off for it

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:13:46 2018 No.5216164

>>5215964
It isn't but I'd choose Blade over the boring as fuck Berserker/Mage, Kensai/Mage or any dual class that involves fighter --> whatever. When people replay the series, do they seriously ONLY play the Fighter/Mage, literally, every single time? It's boring. People online always ask me why I play Blades or single class characters like vanilla Thief when there are kits to choose and my answer is always the same: because this is howevermany playthrough and I want to have fun with something different.

Had more fun with a Blade than F/M, last playthrough was with a Thief and I always laugh at how people say they're gimped in the second game beyond when they can literally wreck every encounter with spiked traps.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:13:53 2018 No.5216165 >>5216160 >defending the ee's character writing in any way shape or form nobody is doing that anon simply keeps walking into like 10 factual errors with every post and spergs out about lore that not even the game designers gave a shit about

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 12:04:07 2018 No.5216226

>>5216002
>>5216008
Too many people look at the end result in ToB and ignore the game up until then. Let's take a look at the characters at mid-late BG1 with 70,000xp (assuming Tutu).

Blade has 3rd level spells, 3 pips in TWF, Offensive Spin 3/day, base THAC0 17, and assuming a Half-Elf with at least an 18 Dex and no buffs/items, a Pickpocket score of 57.
Offensive Spin: x2 Move Speed, +2 to Hit, +1 APR, Melee/Ranged Attack Damage Maxed - lasts 24 seconds

Meanwhile, the K/M is a level 7 Kensai with no spells, no Pickpocket, base THAC0 of 14, 3 pips in TWF, 3 pips in Wep Spc, and Kai 3/day.
Kai: No Move Speed Increase, No Attack Increase, No Bonus APR, Only applies to Melee Attacks, Damage Maxed - lasts 10 seconds

A comparison shows that during the Spin, the Kensai's superior attacks per round from Fighter levels and Weapon Specialization are negated. The Kensai's better THAC0 is reduced to a difference of 1. The spin also lasts nearly 3 times longer AND the Bard, if interested, can use a bow with it. So, while the Blade is already better, when factoring in spells, it becomes a no-contest.

Now we'll compare in mid BG2 with 700,000xp.

The Blade has 5th level spells, Offensive Spin 4/day, THAC0 14, Pickpocket 70.

If the K/M goes the usual break-point of Kensai 7 to dual class, he'll be a Mage 11, and have his powers back. This is a good example point. A Kensai who waits until 10 to dual-class to get all the Fighter HP would need 625,000+xp, while one who waits until 13 for the extra half attack would be 2,625,000xp just to get their powers back.

The K/M in comparison has 5th level spells, Kai 3/Day, THAC0 11, Pickpocket 0.

It's a bit more even now with equal level spellcasting, even though the Blade is still the stronger of the two. (His effective CL is 2 higher, and he'll hit 3 higher first). The Blade has more of his superior Spins, and his Pickpocketing / Bard Songs / ability to wear Bardic Armor, etc. But the K/M does have a slight THAC0 bump.

MORE

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 12:08:12 2018 No.5216236

>>5216226
Finally, endgame at ToB with 7,000,000xp.

Yeah, the Kensai/Mage is stronger. But only because of the Mage levels. He functionally just plays like a 30+ level Mage and the Kensai levels are worthless. The Blade still plays the same and offers the more consistent experience. Especially since Mage THAC0 is slower than Bard and while the Bard continues to get more Spins, and more items and abilities available to enhance both his fighting and spells (largely from HLAs and items like Montolio's Cloak) the K/M just becomes more and more of a Mage until actually wasting your time with Kai and swords is just a massive nerf compared to straight casting.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 12:24:09 2018 No.5216253

>>5216226
>Too many people look at the end result in ToB and ignore the game up until then.
This is a premise not a single one of us brought up in this thread. We did brought up that there are points where a Blade will be better, but they certainly do not reign supreme for "most of the game".
You still fail to consider that your original post was about "Fighters", so your post doesn't take Berserkers or just plain Fighters into account, who are much better damage dealers than Bards throughout BG1. Yes, we know Kensai is absolute arse in BG1. Nobody made a point that stated otherwise.
>If the K/M goes the usual break-point of Kensai 7
The usual breakpoint for Kensai to dual-class is 9, or 13 if you're going solo or in a small party. 9 is good enough, though, because it takes a Fighter the same amount of XP to hit level 9->10 as it takes a Mage to hit levels 1->10.
Dualling at 9, the most commonly agreed upon point, gets you better saving throws, more HP, and if you're a Kensai, more THAC0 and more damage.
You're also working your maths off of three completely arbitrary breakpoints. What about the point in XP progression where the mage gets his first level 7 spell, which is couple million XP earlier than your proposed "late game"? You will start entirely outstripping the Blade from around 2 million XP.
You're also claiming that "the Kensai levels are worthless" even though 9 levels worth of Fighter HP, THAC0 and saving throws are useful pretty much at any point, and you're still a much better damage dealer than a regular mage simply because Fighters are kings of DPR.
Kensai/Mage isn't even meant to be an uber-late game powerhouse. That would be the regular, multiclass mage - who can be a Gnome for saving throws or an Elf for other minor benefits. F/Ms also enjoy a very "consistent" experience, and they blow Blades out of the water when they hit HLA levels.
Kensai/Mage gets good at measly 500000 XP and only gets better from there.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 12:26:06 2018 No.5216259

>>5216226
I also really, really don't see the point of bringing up bard songs when these aren't relevant for the Blade until HLA levels, since the Blade song is just a vanilla Bard song, but with no progression, and nobody uses a vanilla Bard song. You're, therefore, arguing for a Bardic feature that Blades only start really benefitting from 3,000,000 XP... at which point any Fighter->Mage hybrid is still better. Bards do not get HLAs faster than anyone else - any class gets their HLAs at the first level beyond 3,000,000 XP.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 12:27:36 2018 No.5216261

>>5216164
You're absolutely entitled to picking whatever the fuck you want, Anon! My favourite classes are spellcasters, but I always try to pick some interesting combos like Cleric->Mage duals or gimped mage specializations to force myself into a different playstyle. I also like Thief/Mages just because they enjoy great utility.

But anon made an objective statement about powergaming. Subjective discussions in those RPG threads tend to have people at each other's throats about their waifus. Right now we're just having a scholarly debate. You don't have to like F/Ms, but it's nice to know why they're considered the strongest combo.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 14:23:49 2018 No.5216516

>>5216253
>This is a premise not a single one of us brought up in this thread.
You might not have explicitly said it, but it was a point being made in your arguments when you bring up things like HLAs and high level Mage spells when those are end-SoA/ToB content.
>your post doesn't take Berserkers or just plain Fighters into account
Because the original post was about Kensai/Mages which are the big meme combination. And frankly, K/M easily trumps F/M and it shouldn't have even warranted you bringing it up.
>Dualling at 9, the most commonly agreed upon point
lolno. Here are the major break points:
7: 1/2 extra attack per level
10: full d10 progression
12: all Kensai abilities are a factor of 3 and 4 and come together at this level
13: max APR
9 is a garbage level that only someone who doesn't understand kit/class progression would stop at.
>completely arbitrary breakpoints
70k, 700k and 7000k represent meaty parts throughout the game. Main adventure BG1, main adventure BG2, ToB cheese. If you want to get pissy about the timeframe I picked, pick your own where you think progression works better.
>9 levels worth of Fighter HP, THAC0 and saving throws
Except they're not. By that level you're playing like a Mage and are not being hit or making attacks, negating HP and THAC0. And Fighter saves are meh-tier. They're not enhancing your playstyle.
>first level 7 spell, which is couple million XP earlier than your proposed "late game"? You will start entirely outstripping the Blade from around 2 million XP.
Wrong. Level 7 Mage spells don't offer the build the huge advantages that level 6 spells do. It actually represents the point where the K/M no longer really plays like a K/M and just plays like a M. Meanwhile, Tenser's Transformation serves the Blade and his playstyle through the entirety of the game.
>don't see the point of bringing up bard songs
It's just more utility that the inferior K/M doesn't have.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 14:34:47 2018 No.5216541

>>5216226
>>5216253
I don't know. Blade-guy broke down abilities at progression to prove his point. Fighter-guy just argued how he should've picked different things but didn't actually provide any stats or evidence himself. Can someone make a similar argument in favor of Fighter/Mages that prove them better than Bards through progression using stats and facts?

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 14:39:05 2018 No.5216551

>>5216516
>You might not have explicitly said it, but it was a point being made in your arguments when you bring up things like HLAs and high level Mage spells when those are end-SoA/ToB content.
As one of the many arguments for the F/M.
>Because the original post was about Kensai/Mages which are the big meme combination.
No, you mentioned Fighter->Mages as well, which is why I made allusions to these as well. Fighter->Mage is a fantastic combo for anyone who doesn't wish to suffer through the lousiness of the first 9 levels in Kensai.
>9 is a garbage level that only someone who doesn't understand kit/class progression would stop at.
You said it yourself that all Kensai abilities are a factor of 3 and 4. Level 9 is there for a reason - to get +1 to Thac0 and Damage.
>10: full d10 progression
No. Full d10 progression ends at level 9.
>70k, 700k and 7000k represent meaty parts throughout the game.
70k is not even the level cap of original BG1, and a completionist with a full party will reach the 161000k cap way before the Sarevok fight. That, and it's a valid argument because we both agree Kensai early on sucks - but Fighter and Berserker, the proposed alternatives, don't.
I'm not getting pissy about any timeframes - I just think that it's ludicrous to compare two classes in a vacuum at three arbitrary XP points and only at these XP points.
Your analysis also fails to factor in the fact that F->Ms will get their natural APR solely from Grandmastery and fighter progression, and that the Offensive Spin's +1 APR doesn't stack with neither Haste nor Improved Haste.
(cont.)

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 14:53:37 2018 No.5216581

>>5216516
>Except they're not. By that level you're playing like a Mage and are not being hit or making attacks
Only if you choose to do so.
Melee attacks under Time Stop (where enemies are always hit) are a guaranteed way to deliver massive burst damage to an enemy that's otherwise immune to magic, a massive boon especially with spells like Black Blade of Disaster or just with regular white weapons against someone with PfMW. That, and you're still going to pack respectable THAC0 and damage. Melee fighters are superior in damage output to spellcasters, especially if the damage is single-target and on-demand. Just being able to rip mooks to shreds is a massive convenience feature. Just being able to survive HP hits (which you're not guaranteed not to be hit by, especially in an SCS/Ascension environment) is a nice feature throughout the game. Hell, on a non-Kensai (and as compared to Blade), having helmets is a big boon simply for the ability to not be uncrittable, and then you have Helmet of Balduran or similar.
>Wrong. Level 7 Mage spells don't offer the build the huge advantages that level 6 spells do
Debatable. Project Image, Mordenkainen's Swords and so forth are all great weapons in an F/M's arsenal. Level 8 spells bring Simulacrum and Spell Trigger. I don't buy the arugment that you "stop being a F/M and start being a regular M"; if you're no longer using your weaponry, that's you.
>It's just more utility that the inferior K/M doesn't have.
The utility is worthless until you take the Improved Bard Song HLA. The Bardic chains, also mentioned in that paragraph, are inferior to mage robes in most respects, especially if spells like Ghost Armor are in play.
>Tenser's Transformation
Blade entirely relies on Tenser's Transformation to be relevant in DPS and has to use way, way more at-will skills between fights, he's entirely reliant on spins and Tenser's. F/M has no problems providing physical damage or support without this.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 15:03:16 2018 No.5216598

>>5216541
>Blade-guy broke down abilities at progression to prove his point.
Blade-guy has some points, but they're deliberately underselling the Fighter by refusing to take into account the other kits (or pretending that "F->M is completely irrelevant" to the discussion, even though an F->M has a much easier curve throughout the game and is still superior, pound-for-pound, to a Blade). He also believes that HP progression ends at level 10 and not at level 9, which is incorrect - and even if it were, linear->quadratic XP progression kicks in, making a 10th level into Fighter not worth it compared to the XP you lose.
Also, the jump from 700,000 XP to 7,000,000 XP is ludicrous - 700,000 XP is usually not even the amount of XP on each individual party member that goes out to clear the Underdark.
K/M is already really solid and self-sufficient at 500,000 XP, when it's a level 9 Fighter / level 10 Mage. K/M is already, by the Blade-proponent's own admission, roughly equal to the K/M - but he oversells, IMO, the impact of Offensive Spin compared to just regular Fighter stuff like Grandmastery (especially since Offensive Spin doesn't play well with Haste).

And also, even if K/M is too risky, has a shitty progression rate and is a mid-game bloomer due to how shit Kensai is, Fighter or Berserker do not suffer from these problems at all, and Berserker is an even safer, possibly even better character to beat the game with. Enrage is a stupidly good ability that trades the Kensai's offense for massive safety, and has all the usual boons.

With all that in mind, I stand by my statement that F->M is better than Blade in pretty much all incarnations aside from maybe the Wizard Slayer hybrid. By the proponent's own admission the two specs are roughly equal at early-mid SoA levels, but my findings should show that the F->M will consistently outpace the Bard.

That's not to say Blade is bad. It's just not gonna topple neither the dual or multi F/M from their powergaming throne.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 15:04:50 2018 No.5216602

>>5216551
>As one of the many arguments for the F/M.
Exactly. You make a F/M to play a gish and that means waiting, often times spending more time in the process of just trying to have both classes active than actually playing the combo. The Blade is a Blade out the door. He's Offensive Spinning and Magic Missiling at level 1 and enjoys fast XP progression and smooth power increases the entire time. The F/M is all spikes in power gains. Long tracts of suboptimal stats and powers.
>lousiness of the first 9 levels in Kensai.
Fair enough, though the payoff is better for K/M than F/M and since the combo is all waiting for the classes to mature, I figure few people are going to gimp the end product that they're already forced to wait for to make the journey just a hair less excruciating.
>Level 9 is there for a reason - to get +1 to Thac0 and Damage.
Which is not enough of a reason to stop at 9. Hell, I'd even argue 12 is barely enough, but for some reason the community loves it. 7 and 13 are the major ones. I can't imagine someone going 12 and not just proceeding to 13, or someone at 7 and just gimping themselves to 9 for that extra +1 attack/damage.
>d10 progression ends at level 9.
Chalk that up to me misremembering.
>70k is not even the level cap of original BG1
It wasn't intended to be. It's near the meat of the game where you've progressed far enough to be at Baldur's Gate and maybe tackling Durlag or Werewolf Island. To me, it represents that most Baldur's Gatey part of Baldur's Gate. Maybe for you it's like 10k and Cloakwood. Feel free to break down character strength at that level if you want. I picked my levels, have good reason for the distribution and stand by them.
>it's ludicrous to compare two classes in a vacuum at three arbitrary XP points
Fine. 0-70k the Blade is better. 70k-700k the Blade is better. At some point after 700k but before 7000k the K/M becomes a better Mage, but remains a worse gish.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 15:07:54 2018 No.5216607

>>5216602
>Fine. 0-70k the Blade is better. 70k-700k the Blade is better. At some point after 700k but before 7000k the K/M becomes a better Mage, but remains a worse gish.
Hey, I find some issues with this reasoning, but I think we can mostly agree, especially since you have a lot of considerations about style and overall progression that are worth talking about! I'm happy, anon. Have a nice evening.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 15:18:18 2018 No.5216625

>>5216581
>Melee attacks under Time Stop
Exactly, you're not playing as a gish, you're playing as a Mage. Stacking Time Stop damage is a Mage tactic. Electing to use BBoD is putting some flavor on it, but if you're in a fight where Time Stop works, it was an auto-win either way.
>Project Image, Mordenkainen's Swords and so forth are all great weapons in an F/M's arsenal
But not really. Maybe if M'sS attacks were based off of yours. Or if your Projected Image could make melee attacks. The big staples are 6 and under. Your Tenser's, Stoneskin, Fire Shield, Haste, etc. Spell Trigger would be nice, but it's just shaving a few seconds of prebuffing for you.
>The utility is worthless
Not worthless. Just not great. It's still something though, even if you only get use out of it a couple times an entire playthrough.
>inferior to mage robes in most respects
Most, not all. And plenty of Bard-specific equipment is very nice. Not to mention F/M Elven Chain variants that the Kensai can't wear but the Bard can.
>Blade entirely relies on Tenser's Transformation to be relevant in DPS
What? No. Your Blade should be at 25 Strength pretty routinely using whatever broken dual wield combo you have and dealing max damage pretty much nonstop. T'sT only gives +2 damage per hit, it doesn't account for any significant boost in damage.
And remember, the Blade has fast XP progression and gets more and more Spins in perpetuity. His Spins also last nearly x3 longer than Kai. A Kensai needs to carefully ration them, a Blade just spams them.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 15:29:19 2018 No.5216647

The two biggest overlooked parts of the Blade, I feel, are the Pickpocket and ranged attacks.

First, in BG1 you never really have a dedicated Pickpocketer. Your Thief is stacking Traps and Locks to clear Durlag, there's just not enough to go around. Having a Bard at all means a dedicated Pickpocketer for all your Algernon Cloaks and such. This is also very and more explicitly true in BG2 where there's far more and better fare available along with Gloves of Pickpocketing just sitting right there in the Copper Coronet for free.

Next, people forget that the Bard can use bows and that they stack with Offensive Spin. One of my favorite playthroughs was a ranged Blade. Extra attacks per round with a mode that already gives you extra attacks all dealing max damage? That Gesen Bow is like a lightning bolt gatling gun.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 15:40:04 2018 No.5216668

>>5216602
>>5216625
>You make a F/M to play a gish and that means waiting, often times spending more time in the process of just trying to have both classes active than actually playing the combo.
that's absolute bullshit, dual class at 9 avoids it altogether seeing how easily you can get 250,000 xp in bg2.
Hell, you can even do it straight out of Irenicus dungeon, just give 3-4 potions of master thievery to yoshimo, nalia or jan and fucking raid all the scrolls you want in the adventurer's mart, copper coronet and the scroll merchant in waukeen, remove everyone in your party, potion of genius, scribe them, congrats, you just made enough xp to not have to spend a single turn in combat with your fighter kit inactive
>Which is not enough of a reason to stop at 9. Hell, I'd even argue 12 is barely enough, but for some reason the community loves it
At 9 you have 7 proficiency points as a fighter, which means you can have one weapon grandmastery and weapon style level 2 (which means dual wielding with no main hand thac0 penalty)
In terms of raw damage, a F/M will always have more APR, especially if playing with true grandmastery rule (which you should because otherwise there's literally no reason at all to invest 5 points in a single weapon proficiency). Same as a blade should be at 25 str, your f/m should also, thac0 won't be an issue.
But having access to level 7+ spells gives plenty of options, you can use project image to give your party unlimited improved haste (and improved haste is usually a lot better than offensive spin, because you can get to 8-10 apr), spell trigger/contigencies are extremely useful in SCS/tactics when you need to rebuff quickly in the middle of a fight.
Also this bit about Time Stop is a bit of a stretch, a pure class mage is completely wasted attacking in time stop with his 1-2 apr, it's not really viable and even if it was, the much higher damage output from a f/m in timestop also gives you rounds to do more than hitting stuff.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 15:54:49 2018 No.5216685 File: 156 KB, 612x612, 1542656396681.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5205754 Saw a few threads bout it so fired up the ol cd roms. Ranged ranged ranged ranged mage Jeheira

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 15:55:56 2018 No.5216686

>>5216647
But yeah completely agree with that, ranged blades are really cool, melf's minute meteors are also quite fun to use with offensive spin in early bg2 (especially since the faster blade level ups mean more meteors), for a while at least. Overall Blade can be really fun to play, F/M are great for a first "serious" playthrough with scs/tactics because of their flexibility and relatively huge mage spell book in comparison.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 16:21:43 2018 No.5216727

>>5216668
>that's absolute bullshit, dual class at 9 avoids it altogether seeing how easily you can get 250,000 xp in bg2.
Right. Which means you lost the ENTIRETY of Baldur's Gate 1, Tales of the Sword Coast and the first 20-25% of SoA. The Blade, meanwhile, was playing one the whole time.
>Hell, you can even do it straight out of Irenicus dungeon
I never understood endorsing exploits like this. Why not just edit your character's XP if you're going to do that?
>improved haste is usually a lot better than offensive spin, because you can get to 8-10 apr
Improved Haste works with Offensive Spin, it just doesn't stack with it. Not that I've ever found many situations where a Blade doing 6-7 attacks without was changed drastically by 8-9 with, but he can just as easily use scrolls or the myriad of items that grant it.
>a pure class mage is completely wasted attacking in time stop
Yeah, but his spells are still going to GG the fight. And whether spellspam or melee attacks, it was Time Stop either way that trivialized the encounter.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 16:39:11 2018 No.5216756

>>5216727
>Right. Which means you lost the ENTIRETY of Baldur's Gate 1, Tales of the Sword Coast and the first 20-25% of SoA.
Not everyone plays full trilogy runs, anon.
>I never understood endorsing exploits like this. Why not just edit your character's XP if you're going to do that?
I don't really find this to be much of an exploit. An exploit allows any class to hit millions of gold in Promenade by abusing black market reselling, but here, it seems to be a fairly standard way of using in-game resources (and it's still not reliable in, say, a non-reload environment because even a 150% pickpocket thief can fuck up the theft).
>Not that I've ever found many situations where a Blade doing 6-7 attacks without was changed drastically by 8-9 with
This is actually a preeeetty big deal in something like an SCS environment where high burst damage is good, and you're also sorta sidestepping the point of F->M hybrids having better DPR potential overall - "because it's not that big of a difference". Increasing APR is the #1 way of increasing your DPR, which is why the Belm + Kundane (-> Scarlet Ninja-To) is a great combo.
>Yeah, but his spells are still going to GG the fight. And whether spellspam or melee attacks, it was Time Stop either way that trivialized the encounter.
See, I play the game modded quite a bit (SCS, Ascension etc.) and I find this not to be so clearcut. I agree it's a hard argument to make when SCS/Ascension isn't the standard way of playing, but the argument that Time Stop is a poor offensive spell and a F->M maximizes its use is still pretty valid and in some contexts makes this more of a concern.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 16:42:45 2018 No.5216761

>>5216727
>blablabla lost the entirety of bg1 blablabal
what if you're not replaying bg1, what if fighter was a perfectly acceptable class to play at least once in BG1, etc...
>muh exploit
yeah using game mechanics is definitely an exploit, sure... seriously who goes out of athlakata still wearing normal chainmail and a standard sword... If you get a thief in your party, why not fucking use him? You'll also need to fucking write spells at some point won't you? The only "exploit" here might be firing everyone in your team, but again, that's often something you do at the start of BG2... And if you don't want to fire anyone, you can still get what, around 100,000 xp, do the cricus and de'arnise keep and you got your dual class with no exploits, not like it was really difficult either way.
>Improved Haste works with Offensive Spin, it just doesn't stack with it
of course it doesn't stack, there is no point using both at the same time
>Yeah, but his spells are still going to GG the fight.
No. You finish SOA with one or two level 9 spell slots as a F/M. Spell trap or contigencies are usually more useful before that, staying alive longer is better than a time stop 3 times out of 4, you have far enough dps to kill anything aside from hitsponges bosses or dragons in one or two rounds with your weapon alone anyway. What will tirvialize the fight is potentially the dozen buffs you will precast, not using time stop.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 16:56:52 2018 No.5216791 CHULT VAMPIRE ANAL PRINCESS VOL. 1

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 17:02:36 2018 No.5216808

>>5216756
>Belm + Kundane (-> Scarlet Ninja-To) is a great combo.
a combo that isn't needed with a F/M under true grandmastery rules because you can't go above 5 base apr anyway. And without the true grandmastery rule, there are always the Gauntlets of extraordinary specialization. Which allows you to wield belm/kundane off hand while using an actual good weapon in main hand (you'll get 4APR with your main weapon and only 1 with your belm/kundane off hand).
Also potions of master thievery stack and having 220-225 pickpocketing allows you to reliably steal in any shop where you can steal (however going above that will actually reduce the skill, for example can steal everything in the copper coronet at 225, can't do it anymore at 265)

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 17:13:21 2018 No.5216830 >>5216808 Yeah, I meant Belm+SNT as being a Blade staple, not an F/M staple, because Blades don't get True GM.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 06:19:42 2018 No.5217941 Why every Baldur's Gate thread is endless build autism arguing and beamdog /pol/shit. There's nothing else in life.

Anonymous Thu Dec 13 08:14:51 2018 No.5218037

>>5217941
Why is there also always a passive aggressive fake centrist cunt popping up, adding nothing of value to the discussion and crying about /pol/?
Beamdog is a shit company, the ee is trash, game system in BG is interesting enough to have in depth discussions about it, fuck off retard.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 08:17:13 2018 No.5218042 >>5218037 it’s because we’re all already in agreement about it, so the posts bashing them are now essentially just spam

Anonymous Thu Dec 13 08:19:44 2018 No.5218046

>>5218037
I hate beamdog and EE, I just find extremely boring to read the same discussion thread after thread, in my opinion would be better to ignore it completely since everytime I read about it I have to remember that shit exists.
But I guess you didn't care about that because you love those endless discussions as you show in every post. Congratulations.

Anonymous Thu Dec 13 08:21:34 2018 No.5218049

>>5218042
Yeah sure, just seeing retards claiming you can't criticize the ee without being literally a /pol/ fascist proves there is no agreement here and this shit debate will go on forever mostly because of the ill faithed dishonest fucks who claim that kind of shit.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 08:23:13 2018 No.5218053 >>5218049 the thing I love about this post right here is how much it has to do with video games

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 08:23:19 2018 No.5218056 >>5218046 >it's your fault if the debate continues, it has absolutely nothing to do with my retarded inflammatory post and my passive aggressive cunt attitude Come on now, how is it possible to have so fucking little self awareness

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 08:29:13 2018 No.5218067 >>5218053 The thing I hate about your shit posts is how fucking deflective they are. You come in, start shit with inflammatory retarded statements and then cry about it. That's pathetic.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 08:32:56 2018 No.5218074 >>5218067 Lol, my contribution to this thread only began here: >>5218042 Maybe it’s time to just take your blood pressure meds and let this crusade go.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 08:39:13 2018 No.5218081 >>5218074 >hurr durr u angry meds lmao Are you 12? Let it go too and fuck off really

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 08:40:44 2018 No.5218083 >>5218053 >>5218074 your posts have even less to do with gaming you hypocritical cunt (ps my only other post ITT was >>5208985 I've just been reading the arguments about Blades and Fighter-Mages)

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 08:41:16 2018 No.5218084 >>5218081 sounds like it's time to take your angry meds

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 08:41:56 2018 No.5218087 >>5218081 Let go my insistence to get back on topic? I don’t understand.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 08:43:14 2018 No.5218093 File: 24 KB, 171x158, 1518217158386.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5217941 I just wished for BG threads to be a little different or better, but somehow I just make it worse. I'm sorry.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 08:44:02 2018 No.5218097 >>5218083 Appeal to hypocrisy is my least favorite fallacy. Thumbs-down, my friend.

Anonymous Thu Dec 13 08:47:30 2018 No.5218103

>>5218084
>>5218087
>>5218093
>if I hammer retarded points over and over the thread will be better lmao
Just before you cunts came in there was a perfectly civil and interesting debate going on. You have nothing of value to say about anything yet you continue posting. Just shut the fuck up already.
Oh and next time you want to "enhance" (heh) a discussion, don't take the beamdog route of painting your opponents as fascists, it always pisses everyone off you know.

Anonymous Thu Dec 13 08:47:39 2018 No.5218104

>>5218093
It's hard to do in the outrage culture, and also difficult when you're trying to have an argument in good faith about game mechanics or whatever, and someone uses it as a platform to call everyone else retarded.

I wish I could talk about, idk, my favourite flavor of the playthrough class, but then someone would call me an autist who cares about underutilized options when "you could be playing something that's actually good", so whatever. There's being "thinskinned" and then there's the fact that the last 14 posts argue about stupid semantics and he-said-she-said.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 08:49:53 2018 No.5218105 File: 86 KB, 850x601, sample_6742801851542314c0c1f44e574e21b9.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I'M GONNA DO IT! I'M GONNA SAY THE N-WORD!

Anonymous Thu Dec 13 08:50:47 2018 No.5218107

>>5218103
>the beamdog route of painting your opponents as fascists
there was a retard who deliberately misrepresented much of the game in his posts just to shit on Beamdog even harder and then started calling everyone else a shill when he got called out on being wrong
i'm like 99% positive no one in this thread particularly likes the EEs yet everyone wants to prove how much they hate them more than everyone else for imaginary internet wins

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 08:53:14 2018 No.5218112 >>5218093 Next time, instead of just complaining about the state of the thread, try to steer it towards better quality discussion by suggesting something else to talk about.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 08:54:26 2018 No.5218115 >>5218107 "but... But he said mean things about the ee" Oh come on, either quote him and disprove him yourself or just shut the fuck up.

Anonymous Thu Dec 13 09:00:01 2018 No.5218119

>>5218115
I did. He then decided to pretend I am Amber Scott. I'm not in a mood for dealing with an insane pancakefag anymore, and trying too hard to get a person of this sort told just means you're an autist.

The horse has been beaten to death and the quality of discussion is worse than ever, because there's always 2-3 people needing to prove everyone right about a subject people already agree on.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 09:01:23 2018 No.5218120 >>5218105 NEGATIVE LEVELS

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 09:02:30 2018 No.5218121 >>5218097 Video games, asshole

Anonymous Thu Dec 13 09:05:38 2018 No.5218126

>>5218119
>b-but let me replay this debate I already have, that will make the discussion about the EE go away
No one cares, no one talks about the ee right now. If you retard didn't start this conversation it wouldn't exist, you are either completely oblivious or half insane.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 09:06:21 2018 No.5218127 >>5218121 Let the big people argue, you mimetic twerp.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 09:08:09 2018 No.5218129 >>5218093 Very few Baldur's gate threads are actually like this. We have fucking BG threads all the time, the Beamdog pasta literally always gets posted, and almost none of those threads devolve into this kind of shitposting.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 09:08:26 2018 No.5218131 >>5218127 Fucking hell will you retards stop behaving like you do in your average shitty /v/ outrage thread? You started a worthless conversation that no one wanted to have, have some balls, acknowledge it and move on for fuck's sake

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 09:08:34 2018 No.5218132 >>5218126 >i-i-if you ignore it it will go away!

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 09:10:20 2018 No.5218136 >>5218132 If you shut the fuck up no one will answer to your fucking retarded posts

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 09:10:46 2018 No.5218138 >>5218127 the big people were discussing the finer points of Blades vs Fighter/Mage hybrids at different points in the game.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 09:13:30 2018 No.5218145 >>5218138 >the big people e.g. autists in the /vr/ threads about RPGs, if you don't know something, you're a noob if you know something, you're an autist if two people know something and disagree on it, one of them is inevitably a retarded niggerfaggot

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 09:15:01 2018 No.5218147 >>5218145 >everyone is wrong but me >I haven't tried posting interesting things but I'm sure everyone will be mean to me nonetheless Pathetic

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 09:16:05 2018 No.5218151 say what you will about Beamdog's fascism "I'M A TRANNY PRIEST OF TEMPUS" is pretty fucking retarded

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 09:16:31 2018 No.5218154 >>5218151 No one cares

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 09:17:32 2018 No.5218157 >>5218147 >I haven't tried posting interesting things Have you?

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 09:18:03 2018 No.5218160 >>5218154 trannyposter spotted maybe chill out on freebasing horse estrogen?

Anonymous Thu Dec 13 09:24:10 2018 No.5218171

>>5218157
Yes I was actively engaged in the F/M Blade debate of yesterday and I posted about weidu and mods early in the thread
>>5216668
>>5216761
>>5216808
>>5216686
>>5208102
these posts are mine if you want to know everything
I find it pretty pathetic to have to quote my own posts like this but fuck it, at this point you turned the thread into absolute garbage anyway
So now that I've proven my contribution, maybe you can fucking let it go and finally shut the fuck up

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 09:25:14 2018 No.5218174 >>5218160 Will you stop false flagging and trolling like a 14years old redditor you stupid cunt?

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 09:26:09 2018 No.5218176 >>5218174 whoa there buddy, might want to get those hormones in check!

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 09:28:57 2018 No.5218182 >>5218176 You could be a retard posting this generic unimaginative trash literally anywhere on this website, why this thread in particular?

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 09:29:00 2018 No.5218183 >>5218171 yes those are all quality posts and then this bystander shows up >>5217941 and says it's just part of "endless build autism arguing" there's no point of having any discussion for these "too cool for school" types

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 09:30:00 2018 No.5218185 >>5218183 And the first post answering to his fucking trash is mine too, what's your fucking point for fuck's sake?

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 09:32:00 2018 No.5218189 >>5218185 I don't know anymore man, I'm just really tired.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 09:32:50 2018 No.5218190 File: 1.20 MB, 574x954, baldurs-gate.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5218145 >if you don't know something, you're a noob and then you get schooled and won't be a noob anymore if you're thick-skinned and smart enough to pay attention.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 09:33:53 2018 No.5218193 >>5218189 then fucking go to bed

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 09:34:47 2018 No.5218194 >>5218189 Then go to bed, fix your sleep schedule and stop posting when you have nothing of value to say

Anonymous Thu Dec 13 09:43:28 2018 No.5218203

Lots of posts since I left yesterday afternoon. Picking up where I left off..

>>5216756
>Not everyone plays full trilogy runs, anon.
Fair enough, but for the purposes of this discussion, I was talking about a full trilogy run. My autism demands that I only play BG2 games with characters that I ran through BG1 first.
>I don't really find this to be much of an exploit.
Most don't. I find any kind of gaming the system, whether it be the Scroll XP spam, infinite money work around, or offscreen spellspam to just be exploits that should be beneath us.
>This is actually a preeeetty big deal in something like an SCS environment
Even outside SCS, Imp Haste is really the big moment when K/M starts surpassing. I'd still put the Blade ahead at first. Your K/M might get one Imp Haste a day at first while the Blade is x5 Offensive Spins. But as the Mage levels and can keep those going, the gap just widens and widens.
> I agree it's a hard argument to make when SCS/Ascension isn't the standard way of playing
Most of the discussion was predicated on vanilla play. I wouldn't be averse to discussing how the two stack up in SCS/Ascension though. Of course, it weakens my position on Blade superiority since F/M is worth far more in those mods.
>>5217941
>endless build autism
What exactly would you have wanted the discussion to be? If it's not EE haters/shills going at it, it's waifu autism to the nth degree, or arguments about which Infinity Engine game is best from the 1 guy here who prefers Icewind Dale.

Anonymous Thu Dec 13 09:52:03 2018 No.5218208

>>5218203
Honestly I don't think that stealing scrolls to scribe them when dual classing to mage at level 9 is an exploit, you'll have to have these at some point in the game, why not do it early and in one or two batch to avoid spending hours doing it later. It's not abusing game knowledge like infinite money or off screen casting imo, it's mostly convenience.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 09:56:42 2018 No.5218217 >>5218208 Different strokes, I guess. Stopping the flow of the game to XP stack on scrolls doesn't sit right with me. But by the same token, I won't play Ranger/Cleric because of the Druid spell list glitch whereas 99% of the community is okay with it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 10:14:15 2018 No.5218236 >>5218217 >stopping the flow of the game Meh, not really, first thing I always do out of irenicus dungeon is raid stores in waukeen and the slums to get better equipment, I usually also steal scrolls for any mage I'll take with me

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 10:19:21 2018 No.5218241 >>5218236 Do you find the game that difficult?

Anonymous Thu Dec 13 10:23:33 2018 No.5218253

>>5218241
No, I just really like to autistically equip myself properly and I really enjoy raiding stores, if I don't seal anything I usually have enough money and collected gear to do it after the de'arnise keep which is pretty piss easy even with scs and the gear you got out of irenicus dungeon.
But right now I'm trying a solo run so I kinda needed this stuff right from the start.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 10:25:10 2018 No.5218259 >>5218253 >the de'arnise keep which is pretty piss easy even with scs Did you try the Improved Tor'Gal component that's lifted from Tactics?

Anonymous Thu Dec 13 10:31:48 2018 No.5218270

>>5218259
Yeah I installed every component, I had trouble with him the first time I played with scs, but I found the second time quite easier, resist fear, two skull traps for the yuan ti mages before they buff themselves, maybe a glitterdust to blind the trolls, melf's minute meteors from the mages and korgan dual wielding fristreaver and his starting +2 battle axe in the front. Was a fucking pain solo though, had to retreat twice to wait out the yuan ti buffs before killing them.

Anonymous Thu Dec 13 10:38:10 2018 No.5218283

>>5218270
Neato, you sound like you have everything figured out. Maybe it's time to try out ironman or something slightly unorthodox?

I'm in love with my Totemic Druid, currently finishing BG1 on SCS; having a summon on hand is always nice, and I'm looking forward to the insects and summons in BG2.

Anonymous Thu Dec 13 10:48:53 2018 No.5218303

>>5218283
I'd like to try a complete Ironman run of the trilogy, probably not solo, I found I still enjoyed the game more with companions, for the dialogues alone. Not sure about which class yet, might also try druid because I never pick up Jaheira and insect plagues and summon seem like great fun. Rebalanced shapeshifter also seem really enjoyable. Or maybe ranger because I actually never played a good party with high rep (also why I enjoy stealing so much, stores are expensive at 6-8 rep) nor ranged characters (melee/mages/vicky even in BG1). That or a single class thief or assassin, not sure yet tbqh. I also want to try Ultima and I don't have time for two massive timesinkers at the same time, life is suffering

Anonymous Thu Dec 13 10:52:20 2018 No.5218310

>>5218303
I find that Totemic and Avenger are both really fun classes (Totemic summons I already wrote about, Avenger has some nice filler spells, especially Web helps out the "level 2 druid spells suck" problem), and if you want something more powerful and safe for an ironman run maybe try Berserker->Druid?

Rangers have cool playstyles, I've actually managed to build a decent Beastmaster once, and Archer is obviously the DPR king for the entirety of BG1 and SoA, so you'd have a pretty relaxing time. Single-class thief is fun to play, just really, really tricky. There was this chick on Bioware forums who solo'd the whole SCS/Ascension with a Bounty Hunter and only died to Melissan after making a mistake, RIP.

Anonymous Thu Dec 13 11:01:14 2018 No.5218329

>>5218310
I probably won't play any dual classed character this time (at least not with a fighter kit) because my last run before trying the solo one (with the same character) was a berserker 9 -> mage, which is really cool because can do pretty much anything but doesn't encourage that much to try new weapons and tactics.
Shit, failing so late must really hurt though. I expect my first one to be over way before that honestly

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 11:14:52 2018 No.5218361 >>5218329 >Shit, failing so late must really hurt though. There's a Twitch streamer doing this shit daily who just recently lost his own Ber/Druid to Sendai under the same setup. He's actually on right now.

Anonymous Thu Dec 13 11:18:39 2018 No.5218367

>>5218361
Sounds interesting, can you give his name? I actually ever only watched a single bg2 video (because even having understood buff sequences and shit I just couldn't beat the fucking twisted rune on my first scs playthrough), i'm sure i could still learn a lot before starting an ironman and failing 10 minutes in

Anonymous Thu Dec 13 11:20:25 2018 No.5218369

>>5218367
twitch tv/davaeornlol
Don't watch him much because watching people play video games just makes me want to play them themselves but I check it out every so often for like a minute or two, he seems to have good insights if he can thrive in his mod setup.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 11:26:34 2018 No.5218376 >>5218369 yeah same, i'd rather play myself than watch someone play but i can always use a few new ideas thanks !

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 13:30:21 2018 No.5218584 >>5208019 reminder that one of the first npcs you meet in the series is literally wolverine

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 15:38:24 2018 No.5218819 >>5218049 RACIST BIGOT!

Anonymous Thu Dec 13 16:59:21 2018 No.5218964

>>5211307
>EE should've been engine upgrades, they should not have touched the characters or story content.
You nailed it anon. I don't care where a game dev falls on the political spectrum, to me its just disgustingly disrespectful to take an almost 20 year-old work of art and reshape it to suit contemporary politics so brazenly. Left untouched, these games could have been a neat little time capsule into the quaint and comfy late 90's. Now they're yet another shallow digital product with tumblr-pandering sloppily slapped on top to placate absolute retards who aren't smart enough to discern when they're being insincerely pandered to by a soulless corporation.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 17:28:02 2018 No.5219015 >>5218145 >if you say something out loud you might get a toxic response sounds like literally any place on the planet let alone the internet

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 13 23:35:04 2018 No.5219631 what are some good mods/tweaks/fixes for bg2?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 14 00:20:08 2018 No.5219686 >>5219631 cdt-tweaks, ub, fixpack, 1ppv4, generalized biffing, scs, google

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 14 04:39:50 2018 No.5219874 is there any reason to use regular monk over dark moon monk?

Anonymous Fri Dec 14 05:32:52 2018 No.5219974

>>5219874
There's never a reason to use a Monk at all because it's a terrible class that doesn't even pay itself off in the late-game contrary to popular opinion, but if you really want to, then Dark Moon Monk is generally superior to unkitted due to bonus spells and Detect Illusions. Monk kits are generally a straight upgrade. The abilities you lose aren't a big deal.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 14 07:05:18 2018 No.5220080 >>5219874 Not wanting to be restricted to lawful evil and killed by your companions holy smites.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 14 07:18:13 2018 No.5220094 >>5220080 i thought companions only care about reputation

Anonymous Fri Dec 14 07:21:24 2018 No.5220098

>>5220094
He means Holy Smite which is a spell that only hits Evil creatures and is like a Cleric Skull Trap of sorts. If you have a mixed-alignment group Holy Smite isn't good for your frontline. Of course if you're gonna run a Monk in a group like Korgan, Edwin, Viconia, Jan and some neutral wild card, you don't have anything to worry about, since Viconia can't cast Holy Smite anyway.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 14 07:25:14 2018 No.5220106 >>5220094 Reputation is the other problem. If you're lawful evil, your starting reputation is lower which will make shit more expensive at the point in the game where you don't have much money.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 14 07:27:47 2018 No.5220109 >>5220098 >Cleric Skull Trap That would be glyph of warding. Holy smite is closer to a (good) party friendly fireball.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 14 07:32:07 2018 No.5220115 >>5220109 I use Skull Trap like a Fireball most of the time (unless I'm deliberately casting them into the midst of my martials being immune to fire; aside from that, Skull Trap is less well resisted by enemies), so pardon.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 14 12:04:46 2018 No.5220514 >>5219631 uninstall.exe

Anonymous Fri Dec 14 12:37:04 2018 No.5220568

>>5205754
>Baldur's Gate

I remember buying this game the week it came out. And i sold it two days later because it was unplayable crap. All i wanted was a decent RPG. And what i got was a laughable rubbish game. NEVARRR AGAIN. And if i see you open this shit thread again OP, I will come to your house and throttle you to death with your horse dildo collection.

Anonymous Fri Dec 14 13:10:15 2018 No.5220620

I really want to enjoy RPGs like BG and NWN but I have horrible anxiety when it comes to character building. Could someone kindly explain stat allocation to a complete retard? As in min/maxing? I just want to be able to build and understand my own character rather than looking at some extensive guide on someone elses character build, and without trial and erroring for 100 hours.

Anonymous Fri Dec 14 13:14:19 2018 No.5220625

>>5220620
>BG
Reroll stats until you get a large total, max Dex on everyone, 16 or 18 Con depending if non-Fighter or Fighter, get 18 in your primary stat, average everything else.
>NWN
More complicated but generally if you're a martial figure out if you're STR-based (big weapons) or DEX-based (Rogues, Monks) or just max out your primary stat with similar considerations to Dex and Con.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 14 14:03:19 2018 No.5220690 >>5220568 >NEVARRR AGAIN. And if i see you open this shit thread again OP, I will come to your house and throttle you to death with your horse dildo collection. you're in your thirties and you talk like this?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 14 14:22:07 2018 No.5220737 >>5220106 >not stealing absolutely everything that can be stolen from stores and storing your shit in a house somewhere in the big city or Beregost

Anonymous Fri Dec 14 16:03:53 2018 No.5220902

>>5220620
read the manual and the articles on baldur's gate wikia about ability scores, thac0 and dual and multi classing. Once done, read the kit descriptions at character creation, should teach you pretty much everything you need to know to not fuck up in less than half an hour

Anonymous Fri Dec 14 16:16:12 2018 No.5220916

>>5220620
You have no choice but to minmax like crazy
the thing about paper rpg mechanics in videogames is that trying to specialize in non-combat stats will lead you to failure. Let's not lie to ourselves, we're just going to kill monsters and go through several predefined dialogue options for the whole game. there's no game master to let you bullshit through the hordes of enemies with your charisma stat.

Fallout 1/2 did it better, the game mechanics are paper rpg inspired but it was uniquely created alongside the game and they crafted the systems around the video game and not the other way around.

Anonymous Fri Dec 14 16:30:14 2018 No.5220949

>>5220916
>You have no choice but to minmax like crazy
not really, you can finish the trilogy with any character no matter how shit he is, especially in vanilla
combat is a major part of the game sure but let's not kid ourselves, even the most poorly built character ever can finish the game because buttloads of tactical and strategic options and companions
Fallout and Baldur's Gate are just two really different games that have almost nothing in common, beyond their respective stories 90% of the appeal of Fallout is in the dialogues and the funny options you can pick when you minmax your speech skill, and 90% of the appeal of Baldur's Gate lies in its level design and sophisticated combat system, comparing them makes pretty much no sense whatsoever.
Even pretending that BG mechanics were not thought out for a videogame is nonsensical really, it's one of the best adaptation of dnd combat mechanics.

Anonymous Fri Dec 14 16:38:30 2018 No.5220967

>>5220916
>there's no game master to let you bullshit through the hordes of enemies with your charisma stat.
anon, in fallout, a charisma 1 character has the exact same chance to convince someone as a charisma 10 character because, logically, dialogue options are governed by intelligence and your chance of conviction by a skill that you pump with skill points that you also gain from intelligence.

there's only like three or four out of seven stats worth investing heavily into in fallout and the rest is implemented like shit. 10 strength character deals same average melee damage as a 5 strength character.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 01:06:03 2018 No.5221959 besides SCS, does mod installation order matter?

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 01:13:34 2018 No.5221979

>>5220625
The only thing kind of dumb with NWN is that when you’re a DEX-based warrior class, you still end up needing STR for damage rolls or Finesse for attack rolls. Always just makes me want to cut out the middleman and make a Fighter every time I even think about a Monk.

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 02:47:06 2018 No.5222134

>>5221959
Install mods in roughly this order:
all the official shit (patches, expansion pack, the ToB merchants if you're installing from some ancient CDs) --> unofficial fixes --> big mods (BGT, TuTu, etc.) --> quests and NPCs -> tactical encounters -> changes to rules (Spell Revisions, Item Revisions, aTweaks).

To make this easier to figure out, you basically start with big, invasive shit (huge conversions, mods adding entire large areas) and finish with smaller stuff.

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 03:37:24 2018 No.5222205

>>5221979
>The only thing kind of dumb with NWN is that when you’re a DEX-based warrior class, you still end up needing STR for damage rolls or Finesse for attack rolls.
You can also roll Rogue and focus on spamming Sneak Attack damage. Only problem with this approach is that BioWare really loved spamming undeads and constructs in the original NWN campaign. Granted, there are plenty of better ways to play NWN than the original NWN campaigns, but still.
As for Monk, I don't think a lot of builds really go straight Monk, it's mostly a dip to unlock Flurry, some feats and get like 10 attacks per round with Kama while self-buffing Strength for damage with Cleric or something.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:14:17 2018 No.5222921 >>5221959 Absolutely. See if you can find a Big World Setup guide. The older versions should still be available in pdf format.

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:20:16 2018 No.5222929

>>5220620
>>5220916
>>5220949
Min-maxing is not necessary in Baldur's Gate. Especially when you realize there are stat books in 1 and items that increase attributes in both. You can roll a paladin with 12 str, 12 dex and have basically zero negatives because you can get items that increase your str to 18/00 and dex to 18 in BG1 and str all the way to 21,22, and 24 and dex to 18 in BG2.

The basic rule is simply to increase your core stats to 18 and pump CON first because its the hardest to increase with items. 18 CON for fighters, 16 for everyone else.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 13:42:20 2018 No.5222956 >>5222929 >you can get items that increase your str to 18/00 and dex to 18 in BG1 too bad they're on the same item slot in BG1 but overall yes

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 15:19:11 2018 No.5223115 File: 168 KB, 700x788, sarevok2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5208310 >she's the only redeemable evil character dumbo

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 15:36:02 2018 No.5223140

Is EE that bad? I can't install the mods on the original for some reason and I wanted at least to play it on widescreen.
Also, what class should I play for the first time? From what I read I considering the Kensai/Mage meme, Archer or Ranged Fighter, Inquisitor or Cavalier.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 15 16:48:06 2018 No.5223256 >>5223115 >if there was a BG3 instead of ToB >instead of ToB

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 16:58:47 2018 No.5223283

>>5223140
>Also, what class should I play for the first time?
The one that's appealing to you. BG can be beaten with anything; classes with more fun utility/options are generally casters, but fighter-types are generally powerhouses; if you want to watch your fictional avatar rip everything to shreds around you, all the classes you mentioned are definitely great (although Archer is way superior to a straight Fighter who goes ranged weapons).
Don't go for a dual-class for your first time, though, the downtime and the inherent way it works means you're playing a physical class.
Also, Kensages aren't the most userfriendly due to the Kensai part being unwieldy and horrible to play for a full trilogy run (BG1 is annoying as fuck on a character without armor and without a helmet who's supposed to be melee); Berserker/Mages are generally superior. If you want a versatile character doing multiple things at once, become a non-Human multiclass and level in both classes at the same time.
>is EE that bad?
It depends on how much you care about politics and how willing you're to filter out the bad NPCs, since original NPC dialogue is untouched apart from terrible interactions with Beamdog NPCs. Also, Siege of Dragonspear was, largely, a failure.

EE NPCs are nothing to write home about mechanically (they're given enormous gear welfare to help them be the "best" party member choice, but they fall flat; also whoever designed a Monk companion for BG1 really didn't think it through, as Monks are awful) and aren't interesting story-wise. Otherwise, you're playing like 95% of the same game. I didn't ever buy it because there are horrendous issues with Beamdog release policy especially around the time of release (when EE was terrible, buggy and crashed constantly, and I really hated the original UI and the new animated cutscenes), so I'm consciously not supporting them. If it's really convenient to *you*, anon, go for it, I don't care that much either way.

Anonymous Sat Dec 15 17:08:27 2018 No.5223313

>>5223140
Also, Paladins are always a good class to start with. You're a solid martial character with decent low level clerical support later on, you have excellent saving throws, you have the essential "knight in shining armor" imagery, the default "canon" party is Good-aligned, all the Paladin kits are improvements across the board from base class (Cavaliers can throw Axes and Daggers and then they have absolutely no weaknesses and Undead Hunters are just really not bad) to extremely convenient (Inquisitor) and you get some solid Paladin-only swords in BG2 that are iconic weapons.

Archers absolutely dominate BG1 (which is THE game to be a ranged character in, as early game combat is too gritty and deadly to go into melee, and late game you get insane trick arrows that give Hawkeye a run for his money), stay amazing throughout Shadows of Amn and are still good damage contributors later thanks to artifact bows, even if they do stop being absolute top dog late game. A quick tip I can give is that in BG2, Short Bows >>> Long Bows by a large margin due to artifact weapon types.

Fighter/Mage hybrids are probably the best overall archetype and give you plenty of options to play around with. It's also a fairly easy way to acquaint yourself with magic because your main character will still be beefy. Mages are actually stronger damage soaks than fighters thanks to the amount of defensive magic available, and an F/M of any type is always great. Just don't go for a Human-style dual-class on your first playthrough, the mid-game period where you're regaining your levels might be daunting to a first timer.

On that note, multiclasses are generally all really good and fun to play.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 00:45:34 2018 No.5224147 >>5222921 >Big World Setup well shit that looks useful thanks

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 01:22:57 2018 No.5224198 gibberlings 3 is completely down now, rip

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 01:27:59 2018 No.5224207

>>5223140
Don't play kensai/mage as your first time. Pure kensai, pure mage or fighter/mage multiclass are all decent choices but I really can't recommend dual classing to a first timer.
Archers are fine but fall off a bit in bg2. Also, longbows aren't that great in bg2 so if you go that route, you're probably better off with shortbows, crossbows or slings.
All the paladin kits are great and their bonuses will serve you well throughout the game.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 03:58:46 2018 No.5224358
File: 649 KB, 680x1000, 1542906550761.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Would a C/M be a pain to take through the trilogy with SCS/Ascension? I only beat vanilla with a sorcerer years ago.

Also, does the familiar thieving bug still work with all the latest patches and bugfixes? I don't like my shit getting taken away.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 04:15:10 2018 No.5224375 which NPC companion mods aren't total trash?

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:08:23 2018 No.5224780

>>5224358
>Would a C/M be a pain to take through the trilogy with SCS/Ascension?
You're an utility box of sorts and a lot depends on how creatively you use your spells, especially sequencers. Your Cleric self is super useful throughout the entirety of BG1 and SoA, but I find that around level 14 they kinda stop developing. Your Mage self will take longer to get to the really overpowered artillery spells. That said, it's still a powerful multiclass and fun to play, so I wouldn't say it would be "a pain" any more than "trying to beat SCS/Ascension after only having beat vanilla once a long time ago".
>>5224375
Kelsey is inoffensive.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:42:59 2018 No.5224831

>>5224780
>utility box

I expected as much, though I was thinking of installing IWDification for the extra spells that add some offensive alternatives to the cleric's spell slots.

>Your Mage self will take longer to get to the really overpowered artillery spells.

Yeah, going to have to resist the urge to cheese XP, though I think SCS totally nerfs the XP gain from summoned demons.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:56:01 2018 No.5224839 >>5205754 >load it up >oh god the combat >quit while wandering around doing side quests before i even get to baldur's gate the first time

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:22:06 2018 No.5224871 >>5224839 >oh god I don't understand what I'm doing git gud

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:09:27 2018 No.5224915 >>5224780 What are some good sequencers?

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:05:33 2018 No.5224990

>>5224915
Well there's minor sequencer, spell sequencer, spell trigger, and chain contingency. Minor sequencer sucks, so you can ignore it.

For sequencer:
>greater malison + any two AOE disabler spells like web, slow, confusion, stinking cloud
>3 x skull trap, 3 x fireball, 3 x flame arrow

Trigger:
>3 x sunfire
>cloudkill + death fog + chaos (get someone else to sequence malison + web/stinking cloud just before this)

Chain contingency:
>3 x horrid wilting on sighted enemy
>literally anything you can think of

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:25:20 2018 No.5225013 which mod spawns duergars every time you try to rest in irenicus dungeon?

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:33:53 2018 No.5225028

>>5224990
yeah I've already used most of these ones (except malisons and aoe disabler, i'm not a fan of non power word disablers, chaos is the only one i'm willing to sometimes use)
dispelling sequencers can also be really useful in SCS
spell thrust + x2 remove magic (great to pierce through spell immunities after taking down spell shield/spell trap, allowed me to exterminate the elder orb in the twisted rune fight almost instantly)
secret word x2 + spell thrust (great against everything that's not using a spell trap but needs a breach afterwards)
trigger pierce magic x3 against every spellcasting crap that also got 100MR, otherwise lower resistance x3
secret word pierce magic breach (need to be really sure about this one because the breach can easily be wasted)
Otherwise spell triggers are pretty great to rebuff quickly after taking a wish in the face

I was wondering about C/M sequencers specifically, I assume there are some cool combinations to use but I haven't really found them yet

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:37:45 2018 No.5225037

>>5224990
>Minor sequencer sucks
not necessarily
>2x Doom (if C/M)
>1x Web 1x Glitterdust, or 1x Grease 1x Web
>x2 Magic Missile or 1x Melf+Magic Missile in case you really need burst
>any combo of 2 low-level defensive spells; it casts instantly and is not interruptable, so you can get it off even when poisoned or under fire
Minor Sequencer can also be fired while you're polymorphed, so for example you can become a Sword Spider with Ghoul Touch, Chill Touch or 2x Strength.
also
>1x Detect Evil 1x Know Alignment
for instant roleplaying just add water

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:38:05 2018 No.5225040 >>5225013 SCS I think, you get only one free rest in irenicus dungeon also replaces all goblins with duergars iirc

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:38:48 2018 No.5225043 >>5225037 also 1x Doom 1x Spook makes for a potent low-level disable with an insane saving throw penalty.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:41:22 2018 No.5225051 >>5225037 doom don't stack sadly, but they stack with greater malison

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:44:50 2018 No.5225059 >>5225051 Right, then just combine Doom with whatever any other disable.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:47:42 2018 No.5225063 >>5225040 is rest of the mod bullshit like that too?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:48:48 2018 No.5225065 File: 7 KB, 300x100, hell.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >finally strip mage of his "pre-cast" protections >his triggers and contingencies activate

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:49:11 2018 No.5225068 >>5225063 Well if you can't handle duergars at the start of bg2 and if you need to rest several times to complete Irenicus dungeon, then according to your standards yes

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:49:55 2018 No.5225069 >>5225068 it's more about disabling resting

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:51:20 2018 No.5225071 >>5225069 then no, you get one rest in Irenicus dungeon for RP purposes (you can also not install this component), only other area with this rule (which you can also disable) is the mind flayer dungeon in the underdark.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:52:35 2018 No.5225075

>>5225063
>>5225069
It's an optional component for people who are sick of the starting dungeon.

The rest of the mod is fun. It only raises the challenge by upgrading all enemy AI, so that they're not morons and will use their spells and abilities intelligently.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:55:15 2018 No.5225079 File: 90 KB, 634x753, 1536434643562.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5225065 >random thief encounter >they all chug invisibility potions as soon as the battle starts

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:59:38 2018 No.5225086

>>5225075
All components are pretty great tbqh
My first playthough with it really made me realise how little I actually knew about the game, really great way to force players to expand their playstyle
>>5225079
never get out without potions of invisibility as panic buttons

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:00:43 2018 No.5225089

>>5225063
SCS is actually one of the fairest difficulty enhancing mods because you are in full control of what you're actually adding to it, and everything is documented.
If you want to just run a small install that includes AI fixes and some tougher boss fights while leaving everything else unchanged, you can and it should be a general improvement on your fun. If you want to run a full install that makes everyone smarter and more powerful and double every dragon's HP, you can. You're never kept in the dark as to what you actually installed, and very few components resort to "cheating". Many enemies that get "fixed" in SCS are the exact same NPCs as in the original, but actually implemented with the abilities they should have.
Bear in mind, though, that a lot of people's argument about SCS basically cheating is that the playing field between the player and the AI is actually levelled somewhat. A lot of people install it blindly and then get surprised when every single mage arrives prebuffed with Stoneskin and a few other spells to combat (You can completely disable this feature or only enable it on people who are expecting to be attacked and prepare accordingly, mostly plot-important mages or people like Rayic Gethras). Likewise, one of the SCS components will have the AI try and not focus a player character with 75% resistance to their attack type.

So yeah, the mod is bullshit if you install a mod that exists specifically to make fights harder and then complain that they're harder. It's nowhere on the level of actual bullshit like the Improved Anvil or Improved Asylum mods, where each new encounter basically exists as a chess puzzle of sorts for Infinity Engine veterans.

As for the "Duergars in Irenicus Dungeon" conundrum, I think that's actually a Tactics component and not SCS, but SCS has plenty of available Tactics components (such as Improved Tor'Gal) so my memory is blurry here.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:04:21 2018 No.5225092 >>5225089 Good summary Duergars in Irenicus dungeon is definitely a SCS component. It might also be in tactics as there are a few components shared by both (Tor'Gal as you said, also improved Bodhi)

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 14:25:21 2018 No.5225197 >>5224375 For BG1, I liked Finch and Indira. All BG2 mod NPCs are trash.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 15:07:20 2018 No.5225282 >>5225197 >All BG2 mod NPCs are trash. which ones have you tried?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 15:12:51 2018 No.5225293 Which weapon categories/skills are good on BG1 EE and which are trash? Are long bows good on the first game or should I get short anyway?

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 16:09:15 2018 No.5225412

>>5225293
>Are long bows good on the first game or should I get short anyway?
They are, but if you're an Archer or someone just get like *** into them and you're set, or just let Kivan or someone else do it for you. Long Bows are primarily good if you're an 18 Strength character.
>Which weapon categories/skills are good on BG1 EE
Long Swords are great
Warhammers are good (Ashideena) but keep them to clerics
Scimitars include the Drizzt swords if you can get them
Axes are a late bloomer with the Bala Axe and the one returning axe +2, but you can get stacks of thrown axes as your ranged option and they should scale with your Strength bonus too
Daggers are surprisingly good due to their throwability and the Dagger of Venom later.
Slings are good if you're gonna use a shield, which is frankly not bad in BG1.
Keep multiple different missile weapon types if at all possible (not necessarily as proficiencies on your main) simply because the magical bolts, arrows or darts can all contribute to victory.
The only really bad weapon types are Spears which have virtually no BG1 representation. Two-handed swords are your best bet as far as two-handers go, because of Spider's Bane being a solid weapon with good immunities. EE adds the Chesley Crusher halberd which is a gimmick for Bards that want to mess around in melee, because Bards are the only 1 APR class that can use this weapon and for everyone else, it's better to have multiple attacks rather than be locked at 1.
There's a strong mace called Stupefier in EE, which inflicts an on-hit stun.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 16:28:47 2018 No.5225471

>>5205754
Playing NWN right now and I can say that whoever decided that haiving only 1 henchman who's braindead and barely controllable is a good idea can fuck off. Game would be like 2 times better if it had a normal party system where I can tell Linu to actually use fucking spells + turn undead at the correct times while fighting a Lich boss in the 2nd Act with like 200 damage reduction shield.

Otherwise the Charwood quest was really good except the mob density in the Karlat room, like fuck off.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 16:33:50 2018 No.5225487 >>5225471 Also when should I multiclass my level 11 Rogue?

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 17:06:03 2018 No.5225570

>>5225487
>Also when should I multiclass my level 11 Rogue?
To what? Also it depends what race you are, e.g. Elves have a rougher time becoming Fighter/Rogues due to XP penalties.
Anyway, 2-4 levels of Fighter at this point are welcome. Or you could get a prestige class. Really at this point you don't gain that much from going full Rogue, so now is as good a time as any; you'll finish the OC campaign at around level 16, and there's some good fan-made modules to continue it (OC is nicely followed by Aribeth's Redemption, for instance).

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 17:20:47 2018 No.5225597

>>5205754
>So, who's still loading up this game every once in a while?
Me. I'm kinda dissapointed every time. The whole "you look into abyss, so you lookk at it back yo" is lame story arc. There isn't much depth to the characters either.

>party composition
me archer
Edwin
Kagain
that other archer dude
that hobbit with a knife and shit eating grin and archer in one
Minsk or feminazi

>beamdog remake
Terrible characters that are cringy and low effort to blend is just meh. They have worse writing and it shows.

Aside from that worse cutscenes.

Overall 7/10 I don't get why is this a classic, and why BG2 is a classic. Maybe because of lack of any serious competition in isometric fantasy rpgs. And also nerds like DnD.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 17:36:00 2018 No.5225646

>>5225597
I fucking hate contemptous self satisfied posts like this ignoring both the good and serviceable storyline under the guise of "muh depth" and the incredible variety and depth of the gameplay found in virtually no other crpg, even recent ones
It always screams "look at me, i'm so clever"
Not every game needs walls of exposition for each npc and twists at every turn which usually ends up as false depth anyway.
Fucking hate this "lmao dnd nerds lmao" attitude too. If you can't express an opinion without simplistic contempt just go make it a thread on /v/

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 17:53:02 2018 No.5225693

>>5225646
>both the good and serviceable storyline
what storyline? In BG1? How many interesting dialogues does this game contain?

>and depth of the gameplay found in virtually no other crpg, even recent ones
It's just DnD rules copypasted(well more or less). It doesn't even work that well, because lot's of the stuff is well, for roleplaying reasons. Have you ever conjured berries? How many times did you save load, just because NPC party death squad got upper hand in "paralyze one guy then beat the fuck out of him unless you do something similar first"?

Also, there are RPGs like Morrowind that allow for variety and depth, so you are worng in that regard.

>Not every game needs walls of exposition for each npc
Nah, its just better with "I point, you punch"

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 17:59:14 2018 No.5225706 >>5225693 >what storyline? In BG1? How many interesting dialogues does this game contain? Not him, but I find it sort of perplexing that you consider dialogue to be the primary vehicle of a storyline.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 18:03:11 2018 No.5225713

>>5225693
>How many times did you save load, just because NPC party death squad got upper hand in "paralyze one guy then beat the fuck out of him unless you do something similar first"
I don't get this complaint. An RPG presents you with a combat challenge that includes someone paralyzing and overpowering you, and you consider this bad design because it requires you to react to this strategy? There are scarcely any spells that do this to you without a saving throw, and there's plenty of different ways to deal with the event you're stating, not just the one you've mentioned. Yeah, the AI is programmed to sometimes use crowd control and then whoop your ass. That's just good strategy. You are never forced to resort to savescumming multiple times to brute force a desired result, whether by scoring lucky crits or hoping that you resist the paralysis.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 18:09:07 2018 No.5225725 >>5225713 >You are never forced to resort to savescumming multiple times Oh, not multiple, just a bit, yes anon?

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 18:17:10 2018 No.5225741

>>5225725
You're never forced to savescum at all. There are people beating this game without reloading and with mod components that include item placement randomization and a higher degree enemy spawn randomization.

As with any other RPG, the amount of savescumming, grinding and AI exploiting is entirely up to you. The game gives you plenty of ways to scout enemies out (mostly through stealth) and plenty of abilities and opportunities to not get instantly one-shot or to save a player character once he's in a perilous situation.

Frankly, you're never forced to savescum at all. Not anymore so than, say, Morrowind, where many people get confused about either of the expansion packs adding assassins surprising you at level 1 in your sleep and often catching you offguard when you still don't know what you're doing.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 18:26:29 2018 No.5225770

>>5225713
>and you consider this bad design because it requires you to react to this strategy?
I never said that. I was merely refuting your point about the BG having "depth of the gameplay found in virtually no other crpg". I don't really see how it stands out. It's good, I'm not saying it's bad or mediocre.
>There are scarcely any spells that do this to you without a saving throw, and there's plenty of different ways to deal with the event you're stating, not just the one you've mentioned.
That's not my point. My point is that you usually need to reload after seeing the enemy party composition, and apply counter atack. It breaks immersion. Especially on harder difficulties. And with bad party members/crappy main char.

Considering the initial input the game requires the user to learn about stats, classes, races, dualclassing, specific spell system, I do not consider the resulting gameplay to be that superbly varied or deep. There aren't that many strategies, especially for normal encounters that you don't want to waste spells on. If this would have less party members(I think neverwinter 1/2 went for that) then the possibilities shrink even further. After all, whats there to do with you warrior kit. I think more time is wasted on reading and thinking about builds. It's usually just tanking, archering, and a bit of backstabing if you really care(most people don't because it's horrible and its not really returning much of value for the investment.) And those deadly spells that better hit them than you like charm.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 18:28:17 2018 No.5225774 >>5205797 This post stopped me from buying the Shitdawg version

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 18:30:37 2018 No.5225781 >>5225570 Human. Thinking about going fighter or bard as second choice.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 18:31:56 2018 No.5225787

>>5225741
>There are people beating this game without reloading and with mod components that include item placement randomization and a higher degree enemy spawn randomization.
Those people know the game in and out, and make OP characters like F/T/M.

The game encourages savescumming, the way I see it. Just because other games like Morrowind do it also is not an excuse.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 18:34:07 2018 No.5225793

>>5225770
>That's not my point. My point is that you usually need to reload after seeing the enemy party composition, and apply counter atack.
You can just scout them out. With a thief. Or any invisible party member. Or simply retreat under invisibility/haste once it becomes apparent their tactics give them an edge. I don't understand your complaint, again - fights are difficult when you're going into them blind, but there's plenty of ways to figure out what you're fighting against before going blind. If you see a potentially hostile group of bandits you're even encouraged by your own desire to roleplay to lure them into a trap you set a few meters away. Lastly, most RPGs with save / load states are going to encourage you to try out all sorts of oddball shit and then reload when it goes wrong. Same with how most other RPGs have a steal skill that is pretty much never 100% reliable even if you're a master of it.
>Especially on harder difficulties
So by your own admission you have a hard time dealing with the harder difficulties on your own terms? Then why are you even playing the harder difficulties if they don't fit what you're looking for? People are beating this game no-reload with mods that are infinitely harder and smarter than the base game already.
>And with bad party members/crappy main char.
It's very difficult to make a crappy char or even have bad party members. BG1 has some stinkers, but they're all generally workable; BG2 has virtually no terrible NPCs and they all have an useful niche.
>And those deadly spells that better hit them than you like charm.
What's the problem with these spells existing? You can make a playstyle based around crowd control, around blasting, around fighting. Having 6 people helps because you can just cast Haste on 4-5 Fighter types and steamroll everything in your way, or you can go for some highly sophisticated high magic playthrough where you use different means.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 18:35:30 2018 No.5225796

>>5225706
>Not him, but I find it sort of perplexing that you consider dialogue to be the primary vehicle of a storyline.
Not really. It can be also "show not tell". Or lore scattered around in scraps of information. But does BG1 really show that much? It rather even limpingly supports itself on the DnD lore like Dritzt and all that(just a bit, but still)

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 18:39:52 2018 No.5225812 >>5225793 >What's the problem with these spells existing? There is no problem, I just don't see this game having supremacy in gameplay variety and depth over 90's up to modern titles.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 18:40:38 2018 No.5225814

Anyone else incredibly autistic about "cheesing" and muh realism? I kinda felt dissatisfied after doing a hard boss-like battle in NWN because I lured a huge wave of trash into a wall turn where I demished them quickly while the slightly farther boss and 2 of his stronger minions just casted some spells on them and didn't aggro fully. After that I lured the 2 guards and killed them again while the boss cast like 2 spells(he really wasn't keen on moving around even when I battled him).

I know it's a fucking game and pulling is a mechanic but it's silly thinking how some lich is just chilling while I massacre his defences. My autism is immense and I felt bad after trapping Firkraag to death and doing something in Dark Sun I don't remember of. What do you guys consider cheese and where do you draw the line?

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 18:40:48 2018 No.5225816

>>5225781
>fighter
Get 2-4 levels for free feats, more HP, better attack bonus and maybe Weapon Specialization.
>bard
Only do that if you're gonna go into Red Dragon Disciple, which it might be too late for. There's a huge overlap between Rog/Bard skillset and you're too deep into Rogue to make that one work in the OC.

>>5225787
>make OP characters
There have been people who have gotten really far in the saga (beaten BG1 or SoA at least, sometimes even ToB or have fallen in some late game fight) with a no reload solo Thief. F/M/T isn't even OP by any stretch of imagination, it's just a solid, self-reliant class that can do everything, but it also has plenty of weaknesses.
>The game encourages savescumming
You sound like the same people who claim jRPGs encourage grinding when they most of the time don't do that, people just refuse to use resources, consumables and build their characters terribly, then claim that the game is boring and / or get a few high level characters before they're supposed to, steamroll everything and go "pshaw, too easy". I've given you plenty of reasons to not savescum, and ways to play without savescumming while still upholding roleplaying principles, and you ignore them.

You also seem to complain a lot about the game giving you bad characters or punishing you for making a bad build. But then, you claim that some characters are "OP". 90% of the community thinks Druid is one of the weakest classes in BG2 when it has some of the most overpowered mechanics in the game. What's fun is the process of discovery.

You seem to complain a lot about how everything is the same and that you're forced to savescum, but from what you're posting it seems like you never tried alternatives.
>>5225796
Drizzt and Elminster are episodic characters to show "Hey, you really are in Forgotten Realms!". The plot of BG1 is an intrigue about a big business swindle with a cosmic conspiracy in the background. It doesn't need dialogue to carry that point across.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 18:43:54 2018 No.5225820

>>5225693
>How many times did you save load, just because NPC party death squad got upper hand in "paralyze one guy then beat the fuck out of him unless you do something similar first"?
git gud, you obviously have no idea how this game works
you just wander around with no defenses whatsoever when half the mage and priest spell books allow you to protect you against any type of damage and status effect and then compalin about having to savescum....
Just learn how to play ffs

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 18:47:54 2018 No.5225824

>>5225693
oh and that bit about morrowind is just grand... game is fun but to pretend that its gameplay has even a quarter of a the depth and variety of BG or any kind of DnD inspired crpgs just show you really never bothered understanding how Baldur's Gate works.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 18:48:27 2018 No.5225825

>>5225812
And, having not so compelling system that the game basically forces you down your throat to understand to play(made a mage on your first run ever?and tried to fight? sorry you need to die), and having a few a bit of stinkers here and there(some locations weren't that interesting to discover). I don't really remember much about the world other than meeting random quests like nymphs in the forest giving wacky quests in either you can be an evil dick or not. That's not very worldbuilding and with companions being kinda mute after initial meetup - it's not the RPG with the most fascinatiing story I must say. I play games either for gameplay and/or immersion. This didn't get me involved in both ways, it's solid, so I gave it a 7/10.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 18:55:59 2018 No.5225838

>>5225816
Thank you for your input, might give BG1/2 another chance.

>JRPG require grinding
some do, like Persona on highest difficulty. That's a valid complaint.

>Forgotten Realms
I fellt the game is on the brink of being hermetic with this stuff. Like what the fuck is Forgotten Realms. I just want to play the game and discover, not read a book about rules and world beforehand.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 19:50:44 2018 No.5225932
File: 916 KB, 952x584, BG aerowyn crew.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5205754
imoen, jaheira, khalid, kivan, xan

I don't like beamdog or their added content, but I do like the EE's, yes.

The game holds no more surprises for me, but I sure enjoyed the hell out of it. Played through it earlier this year and most of bg2.

Anonymous Mon Dec 17 00:50:03 2018 No.5226641

>>5205797
I played some of the original BG version, then got the beamdog because I thought it really was just a convenient bundle of technical mods. The new party members? Fuck that. Killed my enthusiasm for playing the game when I came across the first. I really regret it, now I'm just gonna get the OG BG and follow a mod guide, same with Planescape Torment. I don't even know what atrocious alterations they did to that game. Too bad OG Planescape doesn't work on my PC.
>>5205869
>>5208985
Don't give a shit if it's a pasta, I hate postmodernist degeneracy, just like beamdog faggots hate "bigotry," so I'm going to naturally hate the products promoting degeneracy, just as they'll do their kind of hating.
Why the fuck shouldn't I? Why am I not allowed to hate politics and philosophies I hate being injected into my hobbies unsolicited, but they're allowed to do the injecting and protest the inverse?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 01:57:33 2018 No.5226718 So who's the best waifu?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 12:40:34 2018 No.5227529 File: 127 KB, 210x330, Neera_NEERA_Portrait_BG1EE.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] literally how I imagine reddit/tumblr generation Z females what a fucking joke

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 12:47:32 2018 No.5227539 >>5226718 Mazzy

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 12:49:37 2018 No.5227543 File: 8 KB, 225x225, index.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5227529 >feeeemales

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 12:59:04 2018 No.5227557 >>5227543 its a trap?

Anonymous Mon Dec 17 15:06:52 2018 No.5227807

>>5205754

I'm actually doing my first runthrough of the game although I was an adult when it originally came out. Using the EE version. No complaints. It's scratching that old school D&D itch for me. I've been taking my time over the past 6 months and trying to max experience. Going to do 2 next.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 15:14:06 2018 No.5227826 >>5227557 she's clumsily trying to make fun of you for using the term "females" instead of women or girls.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 15:15:39 2018 No.5227830 Just got into Luskan at the end of the 2nd chapter in NWN. Is the place hard, because I kinda tryharded with buying potions and scrolls I think.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 15:19:13 2018 No.5227839 >>5227826 But you have to call them females because you cant assume their gender?

Anonymous Mon Dec 17 17:43:47 2018 No.5228191

I really don't know why I love DnD games so much boys. A lot of the battles are RNG, there's almost always an optimal strat for bosses if you get stuck and search the web and the combat system doesn't require much skill and input once your chars become kinda decent. But there's something incredibly liberating in it and the ways I can approach an encounter. I was kinda stuck on an undead boss in NWN a few days ago and while taking a pause to cool down I just realised I am a fucking retard who forgot that you can use holy traps and healing spells against undead. Still I decided against going to the store in order to buy holy traps and I just used what I had in my inventory the moment I encountered the boss. I did my own thing by somehow making Linu cast her spells and shooting him with a magic missile rod with Linu pulling him to a holy trap I looted in the dungeon. The trap and Linu got him to injured when she died, after that I cast ultravision and darkness and bolted him with missiles until he was at badly injured. The darkness dissipated and I face tanked the fireballs he threw with my great reflex save and missiled him to death. I was very satisfied with that encounter and how I did it although there were times when Linu was dumb and times when the boss cast some bullshit dark root thingy which was an instant gg.

What are some encounters you did using some unorthodox techniques?

Anonymous Mon Dec 17 18:17:06 2018 No.5228261

>>5205754
First one really wasn't that great. it was mediocore/above average. Haven't played the second yet because these old WRPGs feel like such a huge investment of time. You have to learn so much shit and then actually read and traverse through all of it. Really only doable when you have a lot of time on your hands.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 18:19:34 2018 No.5228271 >>5208709 Yes. Everything going forward has just been upgrades to my knowledge. They just fucked up the original BG so hard that no one ever forgot it. I don't think even BG2 was actually affected after that.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 01:54:57 2018 No.5229128 >>5205754 Always heard Baldur's gate 1 was trash Is 2 as good as everyone makes it out to be? I enjoyed playing arcanum and fallout but I heard BG has real time combat

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 01:57:13 2018 No.5229131 >>5229128 From who exactly? Random idiots on 4chan? And yes, Baldur's Gate is real time. So is Arcanum, though Baldur's Gate's real time combat is great, Arcanum's isn't.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 07:02:22 2018 No.5229419 is adventurer's mart supposed to be closed?

Anonymous Tue Dec 18 13:30:58 2018 No.5230016
File: 1.17 MB, 1200x1308, paintBG.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Am I the only person on Earth who likes the PaintBG portraits?

>>5229419
>is adventurer's mart supposed to be closed?
Do you have all the latest patches? Also, it could be a component of the SCS mod that delays their arrival if you have it installed.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 13:34:58 2018 No.5230024 >>5230016 I like them too Anon, you're not alone

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 13:37:16 2018 No.5230031 >>5230024 I think you're lying to me to make me feel better, but thank you anyway.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 13:42:19 2018 No.5230048 >>5230031 Why would I come on the Internet and tell lies? ;^)

Anonymous Tue Dec 18 14:05:35 2018 No.5230091

>>5230016
I liked the idea, but applying it in game made me realize one problem - the same-ish artstyle really makes it hard to distinguish who is who at a glance. It's better in BG2 where there just isn't that many characters to join the party, but if I were to run both Imoen and Nalia (which I'm fond of doing), for example, I'd have a hard time figuring them out.

Anonymous Wed Dec 19 04:18:01 2018 No.5230676

>>5205754
I was just thinking about loading any of BG1, BG2, or even IWD2 up to scratch the itch.

I don't really like IWD2 though, and really not even BG2, but I think I still remember BG1 too well for replaying it to have any real novelty. Really sucks. Wish to god they still made games like these. Well, I guess there's PoE and ...Divinity I think, but my toaster can't run those.

It feels like 2 doesn't leave you alone enough. You can't just wander the map like you can in BG1.

>What's your favourite party composition?
Solo F/M/T. I'm no fun.
If you mean NPCs, I wouldn't really want to compose a party with most of them, but I like Imoen, Kivan, Aerie, Mazzy, and Valygar.

>Do you like the Beamdog remake?
Haven't/ won't give it a chance.

>>5229128
>Always heard Baldur's gate 1 was trash
BG1 >>>>>>>> BG2, IMO.

>Is 2 as good as everyone makes it out to be?
No. There's less freedom, so the enjoyment of the game depends way more on whether or not you like the cast. Where 2 is most-objectively superior to 1 is in the engine. And thanks to Tutu you can change that. BG1Tutu makes BG2 almost completely irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. BG2 just has dragons and some other high-level DnD baddies you don't get in BG1.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 06:45:36 2018 No.5230793 >>5230016 They unironically all look like shit There's not a single salvageable one That's pretty impressive tbqh

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 06:48:23 2018 No.5230796 >>5230016 They unironically all look like shit There isn't even a salvageable one That's pretty impressive tbqh

Anonymous Wed Dec 19 11:51:26 2018 No.5231241

Is it even possible to defeat liches in the first two chapters of NWN's OC without pulling their minions first? Feels kinda cheap and ruins muh immersion but I barely beat two liches with a lot of magic and on the second one I somehow got his damage reduction shield down by using all stat boosting pots and a speed one. Did the devs intend us to pull the skeletons/mummies around the liches first? Is pulling/hit and running a cheese and unfair?

Anonymous Wed Dec 19 12:02:17 2018 No.5231268

>>5231241
If you're the poor sap playing a Rogue in BioWare's Fun Land Of Sneak Attack Immunities that is the original campaign, I remember using my thief's ridiculous AC and a lot of prebuffs to simply walk into the middle of the entire group and casting from scrolls and wands until the lich died, then I ran away.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 12:06:04 2018 No.5231273 >>5231268 Yup, I am a rogue. What did you even cast to last enough to kill him? I can tank color spray and fireballs with my dexterity and ofc the melee attacks from the undead around the lich but i still eventually die.

Anonymous Wed Dec 19 12:30:06 2018 No.5231327

>>5231273
I seem to recall I just spammed a Wand of Fireballs around myself while buffed against fire..
My Halfling Rogue was woefully underpowered in melee against anything that was sneak attack immune (read: most of the enemy menagerie) and I was playing on Insane, so I ended up relying on traps and Use Magic Device pumped up really high.
I just recall nuking the liches and running away.
You can cheese it with traps too, enough traps are enough to kill everything including all the bosses.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 13:10:28 2018 No.5231429 >>5205797 Yall are such fucking snowflakes.

Anonymous Wed Dec 19 13:48:38 2018 No.5231528

>>5231327
Funny thing is that if I had actual control over Linu's spellcasting it would've been gg even without pulling and hugging walls to lose aggro(the first lich I encountered was also pretty fucking dumb and he lost aggro very easily). Or if I was a cleric myself ofc. Overall good thing those fights are optional and don't even have much rewards going for them. Actually a lot of bosses in the optional part were kinda tough I dunno where the whole NWN is easier business comes from. The Spirit of the Woods was another tough fight but slightly less bullshit than the liches and the Bodak. At least the storyline ones like Desther are hard but not bullshit.

Anonymous Wed Dec 19 14:00:15 2018 No.5231561

>>5231528
>Actually a lot of bosses in the optional part were kinda tough I dunno where the whole NWN is easier business comes from.
You're (presumedly) playing the worst playstyle in the game - pure Rogue focused on backstabbing. As I said, 80% of the enemies in the game are immune to sneak attacks, and without Strength and with dinky weapons you're not doing much in melee. The only thing pure Rogue excels at is nuking bosses with traps; that's how I ended up beating all of them because I was rushing to finish the game, as I didn't like it much.

It's much easier with a straight Fighter. Or even a Strength-based Fighter/Rogue who only dips into Rogue for incidental sneak attack damage and a boatload of skillpoints. Or with any caster-type. Clerics and Paladins are ez too.

Rogue is gimmicky; by the end of the game I was playing a shitty Wizard (outfitted myself with a ton of wands) with tons of skill points and I stopped engaging enemies in melee. Against any undead, your Sneak Attack schtick doesn't work. Or a construct. Or against some random elite enemies. This build suffered greatly against mooks and obliterated bosses with traps, so I just stealthed past everything in Chapter 4 to just finish the damn game.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 14:17:08 2018 No.5231610 >>5231561 Damn. Yeah I multiclassed into fighter today because I just barely deal damage without sneak attacks. The stuff about traps is true, I just recover them from dungeons and if I get deadly traps I can make my next encounter much easier

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 15:27:32 2018 No.5231764 >>5205797 Keep in mind they admitted to outright lying about point 1 and still post it. Report this faggot.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 15:36:01 2018 No.5231787 >>5231764 shut up you horse estrogen addict

Anonymous Wed Dec 19 16:22:14 2018 No.5231889

>>5231764
There's no lie, of course beamdog wrote its own code and didn't steal mods but there's indeed very little in the EE that didn't already exist on G3.
And as for what didn't already exist on G3, well, see points 3, 4 and 5
So stop lying and keep in mind that no one will read your report anyway, shill

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 16:30:27 2018 No.5231917 >>5231889 Then why do you continue to tell lies?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 16:31:15 2018 No.5231921 >>5231917 Again, where is the lie?

Anonymous Wed Dec 19 16:33:07 2018 No.5231926

>>5231921
"The Enhanced Editions are essentially a collection of free mods that had existed for nearly twenty years. Beamdog gathered them all up, slapped "Enhanced Edition" on it and resold it as a new product."
Don't be obtuse. This is a lie that outright says they stole the mods. Tell the fucking truth, there is no point where something is so shitty you have to make shit up.

Anonymous Wed Dec 19 16:39:12 2018 No.5231945

>>5231926
where do you read anything related to stealing in the statement you quote?
Are you so autistic that for you "The Enhanced Editions are essentially a collection of free mods" means "beamdog stole code!!!" rather than "beamdog copied the functionality of free mods and did not add anything to it"?
Worthless semantics anyway, but you're the one misinterpreting a pretty straightforward statement

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 16:48:13 2018 No.5231978 >>5231926 >are essentially step away from the horse estrogen

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 20 00:41:00 2018 No.5232992 am i a pleb if i think icewind dale is way more fun? can someone convince me to play bg1/2 in a way that doesn't end with me just playing icewind dale again?

Anonymous Thu Dec 20 01:20:07 2018 No.5233071

>>5232992
IWD probably is "more fun" since the point of the game, at least judging from IWD2, is a straight dungeon crawl with minimal downtime.

BG1/2 are narrative games. You play them if you want a narrative; characters with backstories you don't have to create yourself, party banter, romances.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 20 09:50:35 2018 No.5233757 >>5232992 SCS

Anonymous Thu Dec 20 11:03:27 2018 No.5233870

>>5231764
Like most pastas it's obviously rhetoric. The point is not the accuracy of the facts but how you should feel about Beamdog.

You could rewrite all the points in a detached, essay style with emphasis on accuracy and proportion, but you'd lose the humor and most of the intended audience.

The fact that autists kick up a fuss about factual inaccuracies in copypasta is a feature not a bug. It gets the discussion focused on the right topics. In this case, the truth is that the Extended Edition offers nothing that players of the original couldn't already get for free. A bitchfight about whether Beamdog technically wrote their own code or not, fails to dispute the only point that's ultimately relevant to the audience.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 20 11:11:22 2018 No.5233881 >>5233870 The points are accurate though, nobody ever said that beamdog stole code aside from illiterate lying retarded shills trying to frame the pasta as inaccurate for things that are not in it.

Anonymous Thu Dec 20 12:27:39 2018 No.5234014

>>5232992
Although I'm a fan of IWD because it has even more gorgeous graphics and atmosphere (the portraits and voicesets are amazing), its primary purpose for me, as a fun tactical game to munchkin around it, was kind of overshadowed by modded BG2. Modded BG2 is just more of a challenge, so I'm more inclined to replay it over IWD. IWD is still a great game.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 20 14:10:29 2018 No.5234206 >>5234014 IWD needs a tactical mod like SCS

Anonymous Thu Dec 20 15:13:43 2018 No.5234340

>>5205797
>1. The Enhanced Editions are essentially a collection of free mods that had existed for nearly twenty years. Beamdog gathered them all up, slapped "Enhanced Edition" on it and resold it as a new product.
This is truth but also false.

It's like saying Obsidian simply gathered up Fallout 3's needs, weapon mods and iron sight mods and slapped them on top of Fallout 3 to make New Vegas. But it would be ignoring all the work that went into making those things seamless. WeiDU >>5208052 isn't perfect. Baldur's Gate wasn't made to be played at high resolutions, that's why Beamdog added a zoom in/zoom out feature to play nicely with higher resolutions.

I do agree with everything else, but it bothers me when people talk shit about users buying an Enhanced Edition that incorporates mods and smooths out the edges for them.

This is coming from someone who didn't bother with the EE and instead played and beat Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale at their vanilla resolution, playing in windowed mode on my 1920x1080 monitor.

Anonymous Thu Dec 20 15:43:03 2018 No.5234416
File: 1.71 MB, 1600x900, Baldr537.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5234340
>Baldur's Gate wasn't made to be played at high resolutions
imo the original with the widescreen mod at 1600x900 and 1ppv4 looks better than the EE (to which you can add 1pp but you can't mod out the disgusting new UI)
Apples and oranges, maybe, but I honestly think that the modded original simply looks better the EE
As for "all the work that went into making those things seamless", that kinda makes me want to scoff
The zoom is meh because the backgrounds weren't upscaled
That's one thing you'd expect from a remaster, but if they tried it, the hacks at beamdog probably quickly realised that they didn't have the talent for it
The new sprites are honestly ugly as shit in addition to somehow looking completely out of place, when the original managed to mesh relatively well with the environments in most instances
"All this work" would have been made in a few months by any modding scene which had access to the original source code (which it doens't) and in which making substantial modifications to the engine and publishing them online was allowed by the EULA (which it isn't)
The thing that bothers most adamant defenders of the originals is that if you take an hour to install a few mods yourself to "smooth out the edges", you'll both have a better result and you won't have to support a shit company butchering a classic. It's not hard, I did it the first time I played and I'm far from the only one, it just takes 20 minutes of reading after googling "baldur's gate important mods" or something in the name of a bit of integrity.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 20 16:02:38 2018 No.5234454 File: 45 KB, 811x558, 1537814172621.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5234340 >But it would be ignoring all the work that went into making those things seamless. That's a little generous

Anonymous Thu Dec 20 16:09:12 2018 No.5234470

>>5234416
to expand a bit on that , the engine modifications forbidden by the eula are everything that make the EE run like a contemporary game capable of fully using modern cpu and whatnot.
it's forbidden because it would require modders to distribute freely modified files of the game, some companies allow it, most don't (same problem in modding older total war games, patching the .exe for using 4gb of ram is technically forbidden and discussion of it is banned on official forums for example)
If Baldur's Gate had gone abandonware though, these modifications would have become completely legal.
So in picking up the rights to the licence from the dirt to make a quick buck by adding unnecessary features, beamdog also shut off a lot of doors in modding to do its own few mediocre upgrades, a shitty fanfic mod and an endless combat arena and sell them for actual money.
But at least now you can run this top of the line 1999 game on all your i7 cores

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 21 09:05:30 2018 No.5236180 >>5234470 running it on a cpu without the a20-gate should be forbidden tbqh.

Anonymous Fri Dec 21 09:58:23 2018 No.5236280

>>5234454
Somewhat, I guess. The Enhanced Editions suck, but I also think using WeiDU for higher resolutions sucks as well. It's better to man up and play the game as intended, with a small viewport.
>>5234416
>The zoom is meh because the backgrounds weren't upscaled
It would require remaking the backgrounds from the ground up, but at least with the zoom in you don't get a massive headache. It's not about Beamdog being "hacks", it's about the massive amount of work that would go into them. There's a reason why Square Enix releases PC ports of Final Fantasy IX or VII and their backgrounds look like garbage: it's just too much work.
>"All this work" would have been made in a few months by any modding scene
No way the Baldur's Gate modding scene, small as it is, would remake the backgrounds from the ground up, which is singlehandedly the most demanding task for a remaster.

Again, I support everything in this post >>5205797 BUT point 1. If 2 wasn't real, then I wouldn't complain about the Enhanced Editions: people are free to choose and spend their money how they want, but sadly Beamdog was too much of a cunt and forced everyone to buy their shitty remaster.

Anonymous Fri Dec 21 10:00:19 2018 No.5236284
File: 10 KB, 342x250, Sin título.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5230016
I like them. I really dislike the vanilla portraits, they are way too goofy as opposed to Icewind Dale's. And while PaintBG isn't perfect, at least it's one cohesive artstyle that looks better than the original, in my opinion.

Not to mention it has a shitload of portraits to choose from.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 21 12:51:19 2018 No.5236563 oh god why are all these companion mods so horrible

Anonymous Fri Dec 21 12:57:27 2018 No.5236573

>>5236563
Most of the time the author of a given mod is trying to really overshadow all the other NPCs. The NPC is wittier than Jan, ruins Edwin's day, teases Viconia and then shuts her down hard, has a zany conversation with Minsc, lectures Anomen about virtues, reminds Keldorn what really is important in life, outdoes Haer'dalis in poetry and makes Jaheira smile. They're everywhere, and they scream "look at me!"

The few decent companion mods are decent because they don't completely get out of the way to make their mark as if the player was going to install the mod specifically saying "This Particular NPC Mod" and then go "nah, you know, I won't take him into the party after all, his personality isn't absorbing enough". Kelsey is a good example.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 21 12:59:35 2018 No.5236579 >>5236573 >The few decent companion mods got some examples?

Anonymous Fri Dec 21 13:16:39 2018 No.5236607

>>5236579
Kelsey. Tashia. BG2 Xan and Kivan aren't terrible. Isra. Gavin.
Really, most of the decent NPC mods are decent because they're simply inoffensive. This might also mean they're bland. I wouldn't necessarily recommend them, but I wouldn't tell you they should be avoided like the plague.
They mostly avoid the grand pitfall of an author in love with their self-insert to the point where the character inserted into the game is so obviously above everyone and thus barely fits the pre-existing universe - something the Beamdog companions certainly failed at.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 21 17:19:10 2018 No.5237198 Yo will I get in trouble for pirating the premium modules on my legal copy of NWN:EE? I bought it for 5 bucks only for the online, if I want to do the modules should I boot my pirated Diamond edition?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 21 18:08:13 2018 No.5237369 >>5237198 the cyber police have already been alerted enjoy your prison

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 21 21:53:42 2018 No.5237849 >>5233757 just looked this up, looks awesome thank you

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 21 23:51:27 2018 No.5238008 >>5237849 it is, too bad G3 is down at the moment but you can still download it from github com/Gibberlings3

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 22 02:01:29 2018 No.5238172 >>5238008 Can you give me a rundown on SCS? I think I've heard of it -- it's the mod that redoes enemy AI right?

Anonymous Sat Dec 22 03:21:29 2018 No.5238269

>>5238172
the readme is inside the 'stratagems' folder, download it (the folder and the weidu exe while you're at it, paste them in game directory, run exe, be patient, can take up to an hour), and read it, it's pretty straightforward and a way better explanation than i can make.
Basically in three words, complete AI rewrite with a lot of options.
Way better targeting, way smarter mages, pre-casting, better calls for help (no pulling enemies one by one), better use of potions, tougher boss encounters, tougher 'you have been waylaid' encounters but almost no resistances, health or bonuses added.
A lot of components beyond the general smarter ai are optional, so read carefully to adapt it according to your knowledge of the game
Works really well with cdt tweaks and unfinished business, some interesting synergies

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 22 03:52:11 2018 No.5238312 >>5238269 I still find the base games, especially Durlag's Tower in BG1, and BG2 in general, extremely difficult, so I wonder what the mod would do for me. I guess I can at least download the readme. Thanks.

Anonymous Sat Dec 22 04:33:53 2018 No.5238364

>>5230676
>>Always heard Baldur's gate 1 was trash
>BG1 >>>>>>>> BG2, IMO.
>>Is 2 as good as everyone makes it out to be?
>No. There's less freedom, so the enjoyment of the game depends way more on whether or not you like the cast. Where 2 is most-objectively superior to 1 is in the engine. And thanks to Tutu you can change that. BG1Tutu makes BG2 almost completely irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. BG2 just has dragons and some other high-level DnD baddies you don't get in BG1.

Completely with you on this. BG1 is borderline open world, which is an aspect 2 neglects for the most part.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 22 06:27:18 2018 No.5238519 >>5238172 >>5238312 Then only install the components that make the AI smarter and less abusable, SCS also works in that capacity if you tell it to install that way.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 22 11:00:31 2018 No.5238882 >>5238312 It will force you to understand the game and git gud

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