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5189510 No.5189510 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

Build engine thread. For the general discussion of the classic first-person shooters Duke Nukem 3D, Shadow Warrior, Blood, and others.

>> No.5189518
File: 87 KB, 843x460, 1538967365633.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Douk = Blood > Shadow Warrior > Redneck Rampage

>> No.5189520
File: 46 KB, 150x219, lobo.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Slavedriver > Build

>> No.5189589

I finally played Redneck Rampage recently, and completed the first episode. The game design is varying degrees of pointlessly open and bloated, somewhat decent, and kind of mod-ish. The first level especially is very large and weird, to the point that it's almost a proto open-world fps, but it's not so great in how it's presented. Another noticeable thing I realized about the game is that a lot of the build effects are not nearly as used enough. Especially sloped surfaces being very absent was very identifiable. Because of how big the levels are, you can see how flat everything really is. Whereas in Duke Nukem, there are crafted details, shading, and slopes everywhere, but it's much, much rarer in RR. In fact, the first object you see in Duke Nukem is the vent thing on the roof, which is basically a big double slope, already differentiating it from Doom. Duke also way more assets, and scripted stuff in general. It's much more masterful and alive. I'm not going to bother talking about the weapons, enemies, art style, etc. Probably most people agree that it isn't nearly as good as the other games.

tl;dr playing Redneck Rampage made me appreciate slopes.

>> No.5189657
File: 157 KB, 800x600, rr_022.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Half of the levels in RR (and a bit less than half in RA) are boring with flat layout and "go from house to house" progression.

The other half have great layouts, great themes, and are often full of Build porn and awesome tricks.

For some reasons the game starts with a boring one, and even the demo was based on that.

If you want slopes, check out the mine level.

>> No.5189686

I only played episode 1 so far. There are some instances of goodness, like level 2, but a lot of it is too weird or amateur. And frankly, I cannot stand the last 2 levels of episode 1, even though they look competently mapped out.

>> No.5189689

Anyone remember Ken's Labyrinth?

Do you think gaming could ever be this weird again?


>> No.5190123

>no powerslave

>> No.5190431
File: 97 KB, 800x600, SS410001.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

So the other day I decided to replay Death Wish since it has had an update.

I ended up playing 3 times in a row, Well Done, Pitchfork start.

It's so fucking good.

What's your favourite DW level? So many great ones I can't make up my mind and I'd probably list 10, although Shadehaven would be one of those 10.
The best looking levels are those that make great use of the different palettes, and Shadehaven has great layout and progression on top of it, that + its theme make it like a stock map.

>> No.5190586

Derelict is still awesome bitches.

>> No.5191601

>Build thread
>few anons rank the games
<short {optional) discussion about some vanilla Duke maps
>thread falls to the bottom
>one or two rescue attempts
>thread dies

>> No.5192117

it is but Wavemistress is better

>> No.5192712

Blood>Duki Nuki>Shadow Warrior>>>Redneck Rampage
RR's level design is boring as fuck

>> No.5192738

What is it about this game/engine that makes every screenshot look like a 2d hand drawn background?

>> No.5194302

Best mod ever made for any game.

>> No.5194352

nice gamma faggot can't see shit

>> No.5195256

Wavemistress is pretty good, but it sticks with the more leisurely and cheerful tone of Duke Caribbean (which is great, I love the tone and style of this expansion), but Derelict feels more like a proper dark dungeon run, only instead of being a brick dungeon with skeletons and demons, it's a rusty metal dungeon out in the ocean, populated with mutants and aliens.

I like both a lot, but for some quite different reasons.

>> No.5196149


Why does this guy suck so much at Blood?
He wasn't so bad at Shadow Warrior. I wanna facepalm at pretty much everything he says and does in Blood.
Is this how people play Blood? they find an "okay" way to play and don't try to do better?

>> No.5196182

Dunno, I thought the level with tornadoes was great fun if only because of its concept (IIRC there is a secret only reachable through riding on the tornado there too). Also, wasn't the last level of ep1 the smelting plant? I thought that was pretty decent as well.

Anyway, next up for you, if I am not mistaken, is Downtown Hickston. And it is legit one of my favorite Build levels ever. You'll see why.

>> No.5196198

Also, another two highlights in the game for me were The Ruins and The Mortuary. Both also in ep2, although further along, not immediately after Downtown Hickston that is.

>> No.5196228

I think there is a clearly observable, dare I say, objective fact that, in my personal opinion, has at least some degree of relation to Duke's and Blood's respective gamedesign.

Duke has a shitton of userlevels for it, especially if you count in the prehistoric pre-2000 period.

Blood doesn't.

Make of it what you will.

>> No.5196364

Except Shadow Warrior has even less, so I don't think that's it.

I think it's just that Blood plays differently and has a much higher skill ceiling than SW/Duke, and even if it's first time playing on Well Done, and it sounds like it is, then yeah he won't be very "pro" at it.

>> No.5196492
File: 202 KB, 1280x720, MARANAX AND FEAR MOOT.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I don't get the Blood is hard meme. I've had way more issues with "Damn i'm Good" on DN3D rather than "Extra Crispy" on Blood, and i've played a lot of both. This because there are way more methods with the latter that will make you avoid dying: crouching, taking cover, jumping, using well your OP weapons, and so on; all these things make a huge difference when compared to your average gameplay methods on DN3D. That's at least my opinion, i'm not saying that Blood isn't challenging, but i think that once you grasp the basic stuff and work from there, it'll be a breeze, way more than other build games.

>> No.5196513

What are top10 RR and RA maps?

>> No.5196525
File: 94 KB, 800x600, RDNK0019.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

RR top5:
Smeltin' Plants
Uranium Mines

R66 top3:
Slaughter House
Hoover Dam

RA top4:
Moto Madness
Gamblin' Boat
Disgrace Land

All best RR maps

>> No.5196905

Thanks. Do you know the actual author?

>> No.5197310



>> No.5197667

What genuine innovations did Blood introduce into the FPS genre? When I really think about it, I can't name a single one. Maybe I am forgetting something or looking the wrong way?

>> No.5197678
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Can't really think of anything. It's kind of like Duke Nukem 3D, except it's gothic horror themed, a simplification for sure, but it doesn't have any advanced or revolutionary feature to it that Duke Nukem 3D didn't have.

Fucking fun though.

>> No.5197681
File: 538 KB, 700x600, blood.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Oh wait, now I remember! Near every weapon had an alternate fire of some kind, which was an extremely new and unusual thing at the time.

>> No.5197964

Crouching makes a real difference in gunplay. Enemies have a harder time to hit you, and crouching enemies are also harder to hit.
Crouching was still novel at the time, and other FPS which had it, the most purpose you'd get of it would be to crawl into narrow spaces.

>> No.5198171

Dark Forces had such a thing three years earlier.

>> No.5198181

not all weapons had alt fire though, and it's 2 years, but yeah. and God, I love Dark Forces. Great fucking game.

I'd say Blood's strength doesn't rely on its innovations. Although the way the explosions work, like a spread sphere, was pretty novel and amazing. I wish more games used that, it's so awesome.

>> No.5198184

it was just a good game

>> No.5198201
File: 133 KB, 640x769, 3540-blood-dos-back-cover.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Well, there were voxels and Room over Room. Blood was released before Shadow Warrior, and both these things were huge at the time, if not revolutionnary because Terminator Future Shock and Quake already had 3D models and true "room over room".

>> No.5198219

Shadow warrior >>>> Blood

>> No.5198439

I must inform you that ">" equals to "greater-than", what you wanted to use is "<" instead, that is "less-than" sign. Please keep that in mind next time you post those.

>> No.5200010

Top 2 best Shadow Warrior maps:

Bath House
Water Torture

Top 2 worst Shadow Warrior maps:
Zilla's Villa

Which RR level designer made which maps is unkown for the most part afaik.

>> No.5200165


>> No.5201250

Life's a Beach is the best Douk expansion pack

>> No.5201763

Nothing. Just nailing the old fomula

>> No.5201848

It's really fucking good. Shame it's in legal limbo.

>> No.5201878
File: 50 KB, 391x456, SETUP.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Yesterday I was done on a PIII and wanted to have a Nuclear Winter ready for Christmas and I found the ISO I have is actually standalone (you can also run the full Atomic Edition from setup>save and launch and it has )

I always thought you needed the base game for it. This ISO also has an addons folder with 800 maps in it.

>> No.5202217

I must inform you that you're an incel.

>> No.5202564

If you aren't sure of the meaning of the words you use, you should either stop using them or inform yourself. Also keep in mind what i've said earlier regarding > and < .

>> No.5202695

This guy fucking knows what he is talking about.

Top 5 from Shadow Warrior are:
>Master Leep's Temple
>Dark Woods of the Serpent
>Bath House
>Floating Fortress
>Water Torture

>Killing Fields
>Zilla's Villa
>Harakiri Harbor
>Crude Oil

Actually, I can't think of a single good map in this game (maybe except for Zilla's Construction) that wasn't at least partially made by Keith Schuler. Even some of his maps (Rising Son, Auto Maul) were lesser in quality.

The leveldesign overall is severly lacking in Shadow Warrior.

>> No.5203890
File: 566 KB, 1920x1080, Blood.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]




>> No.5203923
File: 83 KB, 640x400, Blood_(MS-DOS)_013.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.5203931

I wonder if Death Wish will be updated to be compatible with this.

>> No.5203960
File: 476 KB, 1440x900, blood_ex_01.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

It's just a port to Kaiser's KEX engine, literally says so right in the fucking article and we knew this for years, Kaiser fucking posted his BloodEX screenshots right here on /vr/, see pic.

Now that BloodGDX is a thing, this is literally worthless though. It's a different engine, it won't support any mods like the amazing Death Wish. It's literally just BloodCM all over again.

Retards will buy it though because it's "official".

>> No.5203981

>Yet another NightDive release of them just slapping a price sticker on somebody else's work
>Still no source code release
>System Shock remake not only shaping up to be overfellated shit in development hell but the lack of news of that over this screams of cancellation

>> No.5204082

>not Build

doesn't belong in this thread. Belongs more in the Doom general actually

>> No.5204120


>> No.5204121

Some anon already posted it there.

>> No.5204951

According to Kaiser Blood mods will work out of the box so that might not even be necessary

>> No.5205857

Death Wish uses new code though: the red potion, the fire suit, the books, the feather, etc
so all these will probably need to be rewritten.

>> No.5206260

Shadow Warrior was the weakest of the holy trinity, prove me wrong

>> No.5206269

I don't think anybody can deny that

>> No.5208061
File: 157 KB, 396x223, 1541330132441.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>New version of Death Wish removes the Cheogh/plasma gun from E1M1

Why though.

>> No.5208482
File: 34 KB, 320x200, RUIN0005.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>> No.5208507

I want Jojo, I WANT JOJO!

>> No.5208612

Blood uses the doom engine?

>> No.5208618

kex engine does

>> No.5208662

those are unused items from the original game and not new to the mod. deathwish only adds new maps. no new weapons, art, sounds, enemies, or anything else

he probably thought that was overkill for e1m1 of a 3 episode campaign

>> No.5209205 [SPOILER] 
File: 250 KB, 1280x720, 1544400824242.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

duke nuk 'em

>> No.5209209

RR would be so much better if it so many enemies weren’t bullet sponges

>> No.5210598

Vixens could use less HP, although iirc their HP depends on their palette, but everything else seems fair to me including the Hulks

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