TNT Evilution

[Anonymous No.5182171]

Was the the pinnacle of the original Doom wad releases?

>varied level design
>tons of hard levels
>tons of monsters

It felt like a harder and more mazy/grindy version of Doom 2.

[Anonymous No.5182278]

>>5182171
No. Number one: the last third is pretty lousy. Number two: Plutonia is better. And three: go to the doom general, a thread had to die for this

[Anonymous No.5182280]

>>5182171
>Was the the

[Anonymous No.5182312]

>>5182171
It was also the first ever paid mod btw. Was supposed to be a free release but id contacted the authors at the last minute and offered them a deal.

[Anonymous No.5182314]

>>5182278
No
Everything is "brown bricks" or mud in Plutonia. I think we know what that means.

[Anonymous No.5182762]

>>5182171
You already had your replies with the previous thread you posted about the same matter.

[Anonymous No.5182768]

>>5182171
I like TNT a lot, it has a great aesthetic and atmosphere, and it offers more challenge than Doom 2, but as stated, the last third is VERY uneven and has some very bad levels.
The first and middle are good though, and the music is my fucking jam, so I gladly replay it some every now and then.

>>5182314
It gets more varied later. It's still far more visually interesting than The Master Levels, and also it has some great level design and challenges.
Hunted is Doom Kino.

[Anonymous No.5182779]

>>5182768
Hunted made me shit my pants when i was younger. Too much pressure, way ahead of its time.

[Anonymous No.5182786]

>>5182779
It scared the shit out of me as a kid too, hell, I still find arch-viles unnerving and scary, but I feel more confident fighting them now.

It's a great gimmick for a map, however.

[Anonymous No.5182858]

>>5182786
Plutonia has the earliest and stupidest amount of archviles up to meme status of having more than zombie soldiers, but ironically Hunted where everything is archviles is excellent.

[Anonymous No.5183636]

"Plutonia was brown so it was bad" I guess Quake is a 0/10 too

[Anonymous No.5183723]

>>5183636

Now you're getting it!

[Anonymous No.5183734]

>>5182768
>design and challenges
I definitely agree that there's some technical wizardry (especially Hunted), but I got kind of sick of how conceptual and/or generic the levels are overall
How many times can they do "partially subterranean brick demon building". e.g. Tombstone, NME, Final Frontier etc

[Anonymous No.5183771]

Evilution is pretty uneven in terms of quality but has some classic maps.

[Anonymous No.5183778]

>>5183734
True, the reason I ultimately like TNT more, in spite having a few particularly bad maps, is because it has some pretty varied environments and setpieces overall, while the original Plutonia sticks fairly close to its theme for the most of the game.
Plutonia 2 is more interesting in that regard, doing a lot of the original themes better visually, as well as doing some much more creative hell levels (all with a cool new soundtrack). Kind of on the harder end for me though.
Plutonia has a legacy stronger than its own inherent value, in that sense, as it's inspired a lot of the higher quality usermade content.

TNT Evilution has seen decidedly less legacy, which is a shame, because not only does it have a much more atmospheric and outright immersive style to it, it would be nice to see someone do a full mapset with a faithful style, but with only good levels, a third act that passes muster. TNT: Revilution is really good (to the point I'd say it was one of my best gameplay experiences of 2017) , but mostly fails to capture the style and tone of the original, unlike Plutonia 2, which does, and improves on it.
Interesting also is that TNT was a complete jank project of all kinds of different people with no real goal or intended style, yet manages to feel very much like it does.
Compare to Plutonia, which was made by a pair of brothers who rushed it out in a mad fury in like 8 weeks, and delivered something quite good.

>but I got kind of sick of how conceptual and/or generic the levels are overall
You'd hate the Master Levels then, lol (it's ok, I do too).
I think overall, I'd say that Plutonia has some more levels which I feel very lukewarm about, than TNT has levels which I feel are just unforgivably bad.

[Anonymous No.5183785]

>>5183771
Quality varies a lot, but I think that for the first and second thirds of it, it's fairly consistent and decent to good.
The last third is where it gets ROUGH, with Habitat being possibly the worst iwad map of all of Doom in terms of just overall quality, but then you have Baron's Den, which could at best be described as just barely passable, but which sinks down to substandard because it fucking hides away a key behind a fake wall and no goddamn indication or hint that this is the case, meaning you've very likely to wander around and look for it hopelessly.

Last Call has an interesting start, some kind of middling Master Levels feeling locales, before you're put before a very awkward Icon Of Sin fight. At least the music is kickass.

[Anonymous No.5183818]

>>5182312
And id drove the devs almost crazy because they had to remake the level over and over again. Fun times.

[Anonymous No.5183828]

>>5183723
Pls. Quake is gothic horror-action Kino.

>>5183818
I think they had to toss a few maps, yeah.
Some, not so much for quality as for just being way too big for computers at the time to comfortably run (these were probably by Drake O'Brien, who made a lot of the larger maps).

[Anonymous No.5183842]

>>5182786
>>5182858
>First time playing Plutonia Experiment
>Whittled down to 17% health and with little ammo from the previous level(Fuck chaingunners)
>See all the Archviles and the lack of any health packs
>mfw

[Anonymous No.5183852]

>>5183842
It's a shock at first, but the secret to Hunted is that it's actually not THAT hard to avoid getting hit, if you can back behind a corner, or stun them with your boomstick, you can avoid the devil magick giving you a second asshole.

You're given one of these and a big pile of shells at the start of the map, and it's a very deliberate idea. Hunted is like an intense lesson on combining rapid "duck and cover" and stunlocking.

[Anonymous No.5183862]

>>5182171
Keep this shit on your containment thread pc gamer faggot

[Anonymous No.5183867]

>>5183852
Yeah when I was 14 and first played Plutonia it was more OH GOD OH FUCK everytime I heard the flame sound and I would usually get trapped in a corner with one.
Even better I was playing on a source port that was extremely vanilla(I think it was Doomsday) so when I died I spawned with none of my weapons except the pistol and the Super shotgun with just 20 shells at the start of the level. I couldn't cheat either because it didn't have a console or anything.

[Anonymous No.5183868]

>>5183862
>not playing both PC and console games
lmao'ing at ur life

[Anonymous No.5184345]

>>5183867
iddqd?

[Anonymous No.5184604]

>>5184345
Where's the fun if you're just gonna cheat though

[Anonymous No.5184619]

>>5183818
There's still a critical bug in MAP31 Pharaon in most versions of Evilution. You can't finish the level as the yellow key doesn't spawn. The bug fixed version is somewhat rare and only available in certain compilations.

The Steam version is the original bugged release.

[Anonymous No.5184778]

>>5184619
You can download the patch in a lot of places.
Also, you can actually employ a speedrunning trick to bypass this problem.

[Anonymous No.5185509]

Just started playing TNT again.

Wormhole, Hangar and Open Season are freaking amazing levels. Hard too.

[Anonymous No.5185516]

>>5184619
>>5184778
My bro and I were just goofing off on MAP31 when the game came out and happened to beat it unpatched, it's definitely possible. Terrible form, but it's possible.

[Anonymous No.5185528]

>>5185509
The start and middle of TNT is really good. Watch out for Baron's Den late in the game though, one of the keys you need to progress is hidden behind a false wall.

[Anonymous No.5185595]

>>5182171
TNT has its share of good maps, and only like two maps I'd call outright awful, but a lot of it is fairly average even for 95-96 standards. Some level designers also give the impression that they were more concerned about realistic details and atmosphere, which made for some pretty dull gameplay here and there. I tend to just load up the Memento Moris instead whenever I want to play a 95-96 community megawad.

Plutonia was the better half of Final Doom, I'd say. Most levels are pure gameplay-driven fun that offer a nice challenge for people who already mastered Doom 2 UV. Its also easily among the most influential wads out there in terms of encounter design. Only thing that isn't that great, is that the texturing mostly relies on the same two-three colours.

[Anonymous No.5185651]

>>5184619
IIRC, the gog release is the fixed version

[Anonymous No.5185665]

>>5182171
its my favorite for sure, but i know thats just subjective i aint looking to fight over it

[Anonymous No.5185849]

My biggest gripe with Final Doom is the utilization of some horribly counter-intuitive level design like >>5185528 mentioned - there's at least one level, I forget which, where a switch can only be triggered by shooting at it, and there is absolutely no indication whatsoever that it's a switch at all, so you don't instinctively think to even press it, much less shoot it.

Then again, Doom 2 could be guilty of this as well, the industrial zone requires you to double back through the same teleporter to reach the red key, a trick utilized by no other map.

>>5182786
I've played Doom on and off probably since 1999, and it never once occured to me that this face was supposed to be a fucking arch-vile.

[Anonymous No.5186246]

>>5182171
I'll insist that Evilution is a better mapset than Doom 2 since most maps don't feel gimmick-driven, but it's got the same problem of getting weaker by the end of the IWAD. Plutonia has considerable difficulty backing it but it's not very pretty.

>>5184619
Today, thankfully modern source ports like ZDoom do fix this automatically if you don't patch it yourself.

[Anonymous No.5187741]

>>5185849
>Then again, Doom 2 could be guilty of this as well, the industrial zone requires you to double back through the same teleporter to reach the red key, a trick utilized by no other map.

OMG this. I've played through Doom 2 twice, and everytime I beat that level without getting the red key. It's possible by jumping in the lava and taking that one teleporter and then jumping off the big building onto the other side.