/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.5171564]

Hey is it okay to just play SaGa Frontier 2 without being exposed to the rest of the series? The concept seems interesting

[Anonymous No.5171567]

>>5171564
yeah it's fine, just make sure you search really well for treasures before you move on through an area and end a scenario

[Anonymous No.5171667]

yes, SF II is the best one anwyay

[Anonymous No.5171713]

>>5171667
SF is better

[Anonymous No.5172091]

>>5171713

[Anonymous No.5172176]

>>5171667
>>5171713
Which is the one with Gustav?

[Anonymous No.5172227]

>>5171564
No you must play through all the 7 prior games and all their scenarios before you get to play this beauty.

[Anonymous No.5172682]

>>5171564
SaGa games are all different and there's no continuity between them so you can start with whatever you want, of course, it would be better to go through the series in production order due to how it evolves, so you can learn to play it and incorporate the ever growing ruleset better and faster, but it's no big deal either way.

SF2 is the most story focused game in the series, it also lacks a lot of other common design elements from other games or gives some of them a unique spin you won't find anywhere else in the series, just don't expect the rest of the games to be like it, for better or worse.

[Anonymous No.5173192]

>>5172682
Dude looks like a Soul Calibur character

[Anonymous No.5173512]

>>5173192
I guess the attire and hair does make him look like one.

[Anonymous No.5174291]

>>5173192
>tfw no SaGa characters as guest stars in Soul Calibur
>tfw no SaGa fighting game where you can spark new moves and combos mid-fight

[Anonymous No.5174338]

>>5174291
Japs have been doing SaGa characters in SC since 3, SCV especially is considered the better entry for making them.
It's also hard to put SaGa characters as guests somewhere because outside of a couple of characters in the whole series nobody has a specific and iconic moveset due to how the games work, even in Lord of Vermilion most of the SaGa guests are villains since they have their own defined moveset, it took them until Arena to start using MCs and to this day you have only four of them, Alkaiser, Asellus, Ginny and adult Gustav.
When it comes to other games you have pretty much costumes most of the times, see DDO or other MMO with SaGa collaborations, or a couple of those characters who have their "canon" moves, like Harid using Demilune variations, Katarina using the Ice Sword, Alkaiser and whoever else has something unique or iconic going for them, FFBE had a RS3 collaboration with Harid, Katarina, Elen and Julian for instance.
The only exception I can think of is Brave Frontier having the Romancing SaGa MCs, which hardly have anything from the actual game either way.
>tfw no SaGa fighting game where you can spark new moves and combos mid-fight
Well, there is Genocide SaGa...but sparking shit midfight can't work in a proper FG unless you make it a scripted event, like an Ultra, imagine doing an input and coming up with another unrelated move because you got the right seed check, it doesn't work in a FG environment.

[Anonymous No.5174371]

>mfw I think I'm far in the game but I guess I fucked up because I don't understand the gameplay so I probably have shitty stats, poor items, and very little arts learned

[Anonymous No.5174382]

saga frontier is one of my favorite games but I couldn't really get into sf2, just too different

[Anonymous No.5174386]

>>5174371
Where are you and what are your skills?
Frontier 2 works on a fixed stat system so as long as you got decent proficiency levels you don't need to worry about stats, well outside of HP and WP/JP that is.
Equipment is by far your biggest concern though, but even there, as long as you don't want to fight the fully powered version of the final boss you can miss a few quells and not worry too much.

[Anonymous No.5174397]

>>5174386

I'm a bit after Ginny's Adventure.
No idea what my skills are because I can't look them up now, but it's mostly weapons arts with very little magic arts.

>as long as you don't want to fight the fully powered version of the final boss
Without any spoiler, can you explain this to me? Some sort of powered-up, alternate final boss?

[Anonymous No.5174425]

>>5174397
Well, you're in the last stretch of the game, assuming you proceeded through the game chronologically, which I guess you did.
At this point it's kinda hard to rebalance your possible equipment losses, you can grind for special tools though but it will probably take a long while, regarding your skillset it might be even worse since if you didn't get some stuff in the earlier generations it will be pretty hard to get it with the younglings in Ginny's party.
>Without any spoiler, can you explain this to me?
Some SaGa games since Romancing SaGa 3 give you the option of fighting the last boss of the game with or without powerups, how to do this depends on the game, in SF2 you can choose to fight or not fight some bosses, you'll understand quickly who I'm talking about when you get to that point,
If you choose not to fight them the last boss will get more forms, more attacks and better stats, conversely if you do fight them the last boss will get no extra boosts.
The fully powered last boss is particularly vicious due to having access to a lot of nasty moves, having a lot of turns in a single phase and having loads and loads of HPs, which requires you to have top tier quells and a good skillset to deal with it, its normal form is kinda tough but nowhere near as dangerous as its fully powered form, and just having a decent skillset and understanding of the system makes it largely a non issue.

How are you enjoying the game anyway?

[Anonymous No.5174462]

>>5174425

I see; thank you, it was a most informative post.
I'm also quite worried about my lack of weapons with infinite durability; I gave one (a kriss, I think) to Gustave, and now only Gustaf has indestructible weapons... one of which looks surprisingly like Firebrand.

>How are you enjoying the game anyway?
I'm not really enjoying it, to be honest. I can do with the unusual event things, but the battle gameplay is too cryptic for me; I guess it's just not a game for me. What actually keeps me going are the beautiful watercolours.

Since you seem very knowledgeable on this game, would you mind if I ask you one more question? I still can't really understand why some characters can't use some spells... I've heard it's because you must have a tool of the same element equipped, but even then it's not always possible to use them; also, is a quell considered a tool, when it comes to checking if you can use an equipped art?

And to think I completed Romancing SaGa 1 (super nes) already... I wonder why I keep playing these. They are so intriguing and frustrating.

[Anonymous No.5174493]

>>5174462
>I'm also quite worried about my lack of weapons with infinite durability
Only Quells and Steel weapons have infinite durability, everything else breaks, outside of the Golden Axe, which is more or less a steel weapon.
You also want them to break either way since you can use chips as a bargaining tool for getting better tools, there's a few workshops around the world that will also make powerful special tools, one of which in Gruegel.
>one of which looks surprisingly like Firebrand.
Keep playing
>I'm not really enjoying it, to be honest.
That's not good to hear, I'm sorry for you.
The games are "cryptic" by nature, since most things are just basic stuff that is easy to infer and the rest is made up of mechanics that have been used and heavily modified through the entire series, so most of the subtler things like weapon type mechanics or skill properties are taken for granted.
>I've heard it's because you must have a tool of the same element equipped
SaGa Frontier 2 has fusion spell mechanics, so even if a spell is classified as a Fire spell it will still need a source of another element to work, e.g. Fire Lance needs both fire and stone sources to work, having only one of these won't let you cast a spell, you also have to worry about the nature of your source, a quell has infinite durability but if a tool has broken you don't have access to that elemental source anymore, barring you from casting the spell, another alternative source comes from the environment you fight in, Weissland for instance has a limitless water based environmental source by virtue of fighting in a snowy field.
>>>

[Anonymous No.5174496]

>>5174493
>also, is a quell considered a tool, when it comes to checking if you can use an equipped art?
You didn't understand Quells and tools quite right.
There's no mechanical difference between a wood based quell and a wood based tool as sources, the only difference is that Tools are generally weaker than Quells and they break, while Quells are stronger, don't break and often give you other kinds of bonuses, Steel based equipment is the third kind of equipment, it doesn't break, it's moderately powerful but gives you no sources or Anima bonuses, in fact it gives you a malus, which is why you don't want to put steel stuff on casters, of basically anyone who isn't Gustav or Diana really.

Tools are more or less crutches for 90% of the game before you get enough Quells to outfit your party in Ginny's generation, Quells are better than Tools since they not only give you often two sources at once and are statistically stronger, they also provide you with major statistical bonuses and sometimes unique stuff, like the Kriss' Comet Fall, however, as I said before, Tools give you chips when they break, which is the second form of currency in the game outside of crowns, chips can be used to create new, powerful tools which you'll unlock depending on your proficiency levels in certain schools of magic, some of these tools are almost on par with Quells too, if not a bit stronger than some too, and given how a lot of Quells are very well hidden it's a good thing to have around, you also won't get a lot of good weapon quells until very late in the game so those tools might very well be a good substitute for those for a good part of the game, though that of course entails focusing a lot more on spells than weapon skills, which opens another can of worms.

If you have other questions ask right away, don't be shy.

[Anonymous No.5174510]

>>5174493
>>5174496

I think I'm good now, or at least I have a better understanding.
I'm virtually never equipping quells so far, because I always fear the scenario will end and I will lose them. Speaking of which, is there any way to get the weapon I gave to Gustav back? I don't think I can take stuff from him with the strange people in town.

Out of curiosty, though, how "very well hidden" are most Quells?

Once again, thank you very much!

[Anonymous No.5174520]

Is it possible to do a Saga Frontier resetless run with permadeath (as if my LP can't be restored?)

[Anonymous No.5174523]

>>5174510
>I'm virtually never equipping quells so far, because I always fear the scenario will end and I will lose them.
Don't worry about that, you never lose anything in SF2, unless your tools break of course.
>Speaking of which, is there any way to get the weapon I gave to Gustav back?
The various NPCs that handle character equipment do so, you can get a character's inventory back through them.
>Out of curiosty, though, how "very well hidden" are most Quells?
A good part of your Quell inventory is mandatory drops from certain battles or chest content, some chest are a bit hidden and require certain particular scenarios to be completed that are not compulsory and can be easily missed, Rich's scenario with Julia is one of those for instance, but as long as you complete any and all scenarios you won't have much problems with those.
Some of them are hidden in certain puzzles routes or background objects, others are in completely optional areas like the Tower of Laubholz, things like the Beast Spear or the Beowulf are probably the most well hidden of the bunch.
Other things that don't quite count as Quells like the Red/Black Stone armors are rare drops from certain boss enemies, so if you're a completionist you have quite a nightmare to go through, there's no Quell tied to RNG drops though so you can rest easy on that, the aforementioned armors though are almost obligatory to have if you want to fight the fully powered final boss.

[Anonymous No.5174527]

>>5174523
>The various NPCs that handle character equipment do so, you can get a character's inventory back through them
Indeed, but from what I've seen there wasn't Gustav in the list; I only took a quick look at the names so I'm probably wrong.

Cheerio!

[Anonymous No.5176223]

>>5174520
It would be pretty hard unless you are adamant about honoring how much LP you lose in between scenarios, since you get fully healed in between each one.

>>5171564
Yeah it's a good game, it goes in an entirely different direction than other SaGa games, which turned me off at first, but the story, art and OST more than make up for it.

Honestly I wish more RPGs would have a generational system like SF2, where character strength would wax and wane depending on how old one is.

[Anonymous No.5176357]

>>5176223
Most people would go apeshit when they find out the character they started the game with actually got statistically weaker in the long run, it's a good gimmick but it's not hard to see why it's not a popular choice, though to be fair you can say that about most SaGa design decisions.
Generational RPGs are rare to begin with anyway, it's a shame really.

[Anonymous No.5176594]

Do the SaGa games have epic stories or are they more personal adventures?

[Anonymous No.5176610]

>>5176594
Saga Frontier 2 is epic as fuck. A complex, mystifying, terrifying, saga spanning multiple POVs and generations.

[Anonymous No.5176612]

>>5176594
This one in particular is about two dynasties and their fight against a certain entity. The world map is hardly a continent I think, the final boss although really powerful is not implied to be the strongest being in the world or something

But most of the SaGas have stories going through the entire world, fighting gods, going to hell or the future or different planes of existence or whatever and meeting a huge cast of characters

[Anonymous No.5176625]

>>5176594
>>5176594
The entirety of SF2's story telling is based on capturing different high points of the lives on it's cast. The game does this to a point that, although very vaguely implied, there is a fair amount of story on different characters that is left up to interpretation. So yes, I'd say it covers the epic part pretty well; most of the personal parts of characters happens in between scenarios and it's left up to the player to piece it all together. I can see why people don't like this form of story telling, but I personally like it.

[Anonymous No.5176630]

>>5176357
>Most people would go apeshit when they find out the character they started the game with actually got statistically weaker in the long run
Just make it so that you get most of your units before their prime, and give the option to retire units at any time to give training bonuses to new units until the retired character dies of old age.

[Anonymous No.5176780]

>>5176594
A bit of both, though it also depends on the entries.

The GB trilogy is all about a straightforward epic RPG adventure, spanning multiple parallel worlds and even time.
Romancing SaGa is both an epic journey of eight chosen people destined to fight an evil god and also their own stories, some of them are more epic in nature, like Albert, but others are fairly personal, like Aisha.
Romancing SaGa 2 is an epic tale of a dinasty of emperors fighting a war that can span thousands of years against some legendary heroes turned rogue, a tale of revenge but also mystery and tragedy.
Romancing SaGa 3 takes a few moves from RS1, but it's a bit less epic and more on the personal side, as the main quest, while important, is more incidental compared to each hero's journey.
SaGa Frontier is about epic personal stories, from a boy turned into a sentai hero who fights for justice and revenge to a stranded robot trying to find its lost directives and identity, it's the most over the top game in terms of narrative.
SaGa Frontier 2 is a biography of two wildly different characters, their families, their struggles and how their stories eventually intertwine in the grand design of things, spanning multiple generations of characters, the most dramatic game and story focused in the series.
As for the non retro games:
Unlimited is a collection of stories of seven different characters in a ruined, strange world, all characters are wildly different from each other, much like Frontier, but their stories are a bit less over the top and a bit more mature, but still whimsical much like the rest of the series.
Scarlet Grace is a mixture of every other title before it, the star of an evil god of fire and destruction heralds a new trial for the world and the beings that inhabits it, bringing chaos, ruin and intrigue, four people each start their own weird personal journey which eventually leads them to fight the evil god, and shape the world through their decisions.

[Anonymous No.5176786]

>any SaGa game other than the GB ones

Gross

[Anonymous No.5178535]

Hey are there any SaGa artbooks worth checking out?

[Anonymous No.5178878]

>>5178535
All of them are worth checking out, but there's hardly anything on the internet, you can find the Time Weaver artbook for RS1/2 on sadpanda though.
They published a supposed opera omnia artbook a few months ago in japan, been tempted to get it myself, though I'm afraid there won't be much from the original GB games, also I'm not sure whether it's on sale outside of the Squenix shop and they usually don't send their goods outside of Japan.

[Anonymous No.5179527]

>>5178878
everyone looks like they're in a hair metal band

[Anonymous No.5179563]

>>5179527
Yes, and?

[Anonymous No.5179738]

>>5179527
I don't see how that's bad.
I mean, you literally have Slash, Steward Copeland and Gene Simmons as playable characters in this series, what exactly do you expect?

[Anonymous No.5179763]

>>5179527
You say that like it’s a bad thing

[Anonymous No.5179773]

>>5176780
I'm wanting to play the GB games and holy hell the emulator is garbage.

[Anonymous No.5179858]

>>5179563
>>5179738
>>5179763
unbridled cuckoldry

[Anonymous No.5179902]

>>5179858
Unbridled meme-loving buzzword-spouting faggotry

[Anonymous No.5179905]

>>5179902
Just hide him, not even worth a (You).