/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.5168190]

JRPG thread, please post only the best /vr/ jrpgs and action jrpgs

[Anonymous No.5168214]

>>5168190

[Anonymous No.5168215]

>>5168190
>>5168214
btw pictures unrelated.

[Anonymous No.5168216]

play chrono trigger

[Anonymous No.5168218]

>>5168216
As if anyone hasn't or would at least admit they haven't?

[Anonymous No.5168224]

[Anonymous No.5168227]

>>5168216
I haven't, not a big fan of SNES RPGs that aren't in first person.

[Anonymous No.5168228]

>>5168218
I haven’t. I’ve been meaning to get to it but can’t decide between the original, one of the fan retranslations, the DS version or the patched Steam release with those high quality FMVs.

[Anonymous No.5168251]

gay elf potion quest 2

[Anonymous No.5168254]

>>5168227
>SNES RPGs that aren't in first person
Are there a lot of first-person RPGs on the SNES?

[Anonymous No.5168257]

>>5168254
Doom, Duke Nukem

[Anonymous No.5168258]

>>5168257
Doom is not an JRPG and Duke Nukem was never ported to the SNES.

[Anonymous No.5168265]

>>5168254
SMT and uh..

[Anonymous No.5168272]

Secret of Mana
Secret of Evermore

Seiken Densetsu 3 is cool too.

[Anonymous No.5168273]

>>5168254
Eye of the Beholder
Arcana
Wizardry 1-3
Wizardry 5, 6
SMT1, 2, If...

[Anonymous No.5168278]

>>5168224
Good

Also: Final Fantasy Tactics, Vandal Hearts, SaGa Frontier, Vagrant Story, Valkyrie Profile

[Anonymous No.5168281]

Don't say I never do anything for you negroids

[Anonymous No.5168282]

>>5168281
Nice list but, uh, do you have a list for JRPGs?

[Anonymous No.5168283]

>>5168190
So, Chrono Trigger thread?

[Anonymous No.5168290]

>>5168190
I’m playing Lufia 2 again and it’s a great game. The characters have great personalities.

[Anonymous No.5168295]

>>5168290
What personalities?

[Anonymous No.5168296]

>>5168282
Most of those are made in Japan. Just because they are not turn based, it won’t make them less of an JRPG.

[Anonymous No.5168298]

>>5168227
Why do you enjoy the taste of shit?

>>5168228
Does the Steam version have all the content from the DS version? If it does, just go for that.

[Anonymous No.5168301]

>>5168273
Yume Meikyuu: Kigurumi no Daibouken

[Anonymous No.5168318]

>>5168296
yeah but he's asking if you have a list of actual good games

[Anonymous No.5168326]

>>5168318
He specifically said "JRPG” in his reply. Whether they are good games is up to him, but they are still JRPG.

[Anonymous No.5168374]

>>5168228
Avoid the Steam release, it looks like this.

[Anonymous No.5168424]

>>5168254
Dungeon Master is pretty cool

[Anonymous No.5168437]

>>5168326
Those games are not considered JRPGs. If I said Legend of Zelda was a JRPG, I'd imagine 9/10 people would tell me I'm fucking wrong.

[Anonymous No.5168470]

>>5168282

[Anonymous No.5168475]

What are some good PSX JRPGs that are on a single disc?

[Anonymous No.5168528]

>>5168475
Grandia
Legend of mana

[Anonymous No.5168532]

>>5168475

[Anonymous No.5168540]

>>5168470
Alright, I'll ask since I've really only played the old FFs and I need more old JRPGs. What are must plays on this list.

[Anonymous No.5168543]

>>5168528
Grandia is on 2 discs iirc

[Anonymous No.5168545]

Is there any turn based combat rpg that involves skill? Not baiting but it seems to me that turn based combat does not rely on any form of skill, strategy or preparation for that matter. The only winning factor are stats and healing items. There's only one way to play efficiently and it is to spam buff/heal on your melee dps and spam aoe spells with your casters.Status ailments are completely irrelevant since they're a waste of turn against fodder you can instakill and bosses are immune to all of them. And when you can't get past a fight it doesn't mean you have to take a different approach but simply that you have to spend the next four hours or so in random encounters until your party stats let you face the next level. In an action rpg, being stuck in a fight implies you need to keep going at it until you can read the enemy's moves and counter accordingly, in a turn based it just means the devs have decided to artificially expand the playtime of their game by forcing you to do the same thing over and over, you basically pay with your lifetime to be allowed to progress.
To support my claim I'd like to add that when I see positive feedback about x turn based games the emphasis is always on graphism, music, atmosphere, characters, dialogs,story, but very rarely the combat system.

[Anonymous No.5168553]

>>5168545
We call them tactics rpgs.

[Anonymous No.5168556]

>>5168545
SaGa and Etrian require quite a lot of preparation and strategy. The latter is allegedly balanced in a way that makes you constantly feel *something* is missing from the party and ailments are extremely useful even against endgame bosses. In fact, bosses being immune to ailments is largely a Final Fantasy/DQ thing.

As for actual skill, the Mario & Luigi RPGs don't have a concept of accuracy or evasion, but rather timed hits. Low bar but still an example.

[Anonymous No.5168562]

>>5168545
a turn based single player format would have trouble requiring skill. It more or less relies on strategy for difficulty

[Anonymous No.5168570]

>>5168556
DQ bosses tend to be vulnerable to status spells. You just (usually) can't instakill them.

[Anonymous No.5168582]

>>5168190
>Underrated A-RPG similar to Zelda with awesome music and graphics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvXfrczI_BU

[Anonymous No.5168586]

>>5168190
>>5168214
Is this bait?

[Anonymous No.5168792]

>>5168281
This is missing Super Ninja Boy. A unique JRPG with action elements in battle system.

[Anonymous No.5168841]

[Anonymous No.5168887]

>>5168545
>And when you can't get past a fight it doesn't mean you have to take a different approach but simply that you have to spend the next four hours or so in random encounters until your party stats let you face the next level.
No, not really. Even if this seems miniscule, going back into a fight with changes in equipment has helped me win that fight in the past, without having to go back and grind more. So different preparation makes the battle go very differently.
That said, the general "strategy" required within a fight usually still is "spam your strongest attacks -> heal if necessary -> repeat" more often than not, it seems. And even if an enemy has a weakness, that mostly just means you use fire spells instead of ice spells or whatever.

[Anonymous No.5168893]

>>5168545
Final Fantasy Tactics
Tactics Ogre
Front Mission series
Vandal Hearts
Kartia
Hoshigami
Ogre Battle

[Anonymous No.5168898]

>>5168887
agreed
if you're playing a JRPG past the NES era and you need to grind, then you're either doing something wrong or you're playing 7th Saga

[Anonymous No.5168953]

>>5168898
snes is loaded with grinding hells what are you on about

[Anonymous No.5168961]

>>5168298
>Does the Steam version have all the content from the DS version? If it does, just go for that.
No, it's basically the PSX version without the loading times. CT is one of those games that doesn't have a definitive best version, sadly.

[Anonymous No.5168970]

>>5168281
>see brave prove
>can't find a proper download cue/bin format
Fuck I'm gonna have to buy this shit aren't I?

[Anonymous No.5168985]

>>5168318
>list of good jrpgs
2 or 3 games is harldy a list.

[Anonymous No.5168993]

I'll take advantage of this thread. I need feedback on a couple of things, namely:
- What games would you put in Gold/Silver/Bronze? Take into consideration popularity, not quality.
- I want to add icons for games that are Shorter/Longer, Easier/Harder than the average, and games that lean more towards the gameplay or story side.
- I want to include a tl;dr: with maybe 5 games for absolute newbies. What would you recommend?

[Anonymous No.5168996]

[Anonymous No.5169001]

[Anonymous No.5169061]

>>5168996
I mean, I'm not one to discuss the 'rating' system, but SMRPG being anything other than gold is really weird

[Anonymous No.5169270]

>>5168228
Just play the original on an emulator. That is how most people played it.

[Anonymous No.5169282]

>>5168216
I tried to play Crono Trigger and quit at the part where you end up at that intersection between times or some shit and got magic for the first time because I realized the combat was going to remain stale as fuck for the whole game

[Anonymous No.5169302]

>>5169282
Chrono Trigger isn't about the combat though, the combat is just a stage for cool anime shit to happen when you meet the badguys

[Anonymous No.5169314]

>>5168545
FF Tacttics War of the Lions

[Anonymous No.5169330]

>>5168545
>Is there any turn based combat rpg that involves skill?
Yes. So long as you consider "making effective tactical decisions" a skill. Many turn-based games require you to plan and then adapt to changing conditions on the fly.

A good number are either easy or allow for stat-grinding. But being able to out-grind an encounter doesn't mean that it wasn't designed to allow for effective decision-making.

> I'd like to add that when I see positive feedback about x turn based games the emphasis is always on graphism, music, atmosphere, characters, dialogs,story, but very rarely the combat system.
what games are you talking about?

[Anonymous No.5169704]

[Anonymous No.5169707]

[Anonymous No.5169715]

>>5169707

[Anonymous No.5169718]

>>5169715

[Anonymous No.5169721]

>>5169718

[Anonymous No.5169728]

>>5168898
There are many games with grind walls, and in others you may grind to make a shit character or build you like work

Most people grind to erase difficulty from the game but it's not always the case. Some people even enjoy planning the grind ahead to make it the most effective they can, like Disgaea

[Anonymous No.5169729]

>>5169721

[Anonymous No.5169751]

>>5169729
Currently playing this, starting to die a lot too, thinking about skipping battles...

[Anonymous No.5169778]

i don't think i ever had this much fun in a retro JRPG in a while.

[Anonymous No.5169808]

>>5168374
lookin' good

[Anonymous No.5169825]

>>5169721
Kinda underrated, I've been playing it on and off since September and I'm having a lot of fun. The party grid system seems pointless at first but you kinda adapt to it and adds its own layer of strategy.
The story dungeons are indeed a lot more bare compared to 2, but the combat quality is pretty good and the story bits are decent-ish so I'm not being too hard on it. I didn't reach the Ancient Cave yet, but I feel it's gonna be better than in 2.

[Anonymous No.5169832]

>>5169751
It's not too tough unless you really grinded like a motherfucker. Try to maximize your options instead, minmax some party members with your current skills/gear and you should get through.

[Anonymous No.5169845]

>>5169778
What game is that

[Anonymous No.5169847]

>>5169845
Looks like SaGa Frontier. It's good shit, even if it feels incomplete.

[Anonymous No.5169861]

>>5169845
it's SaGa Frontier. sure it doesn't have the same polish as BoFIV nor an incredibly written story, but it does so well in gameplay.

Getting a spark and then a lv4+ combo is the best feeling in the world with that game

[Anonymous No.5169871]

>>5168190

Are Rabites Jewish?

[Anonymous No.5169917]

>>5168586
maybe

[Anonymous No.5170152]

>>5169704
>>5169707
Okay, but if you even recommend Lufia I, at least mention that it should be played before II even though II is a prequel.
I don't know if I could have gone back to I after playing through II first.

[Anonymous No.5170237]

>>5169825
the grid system is vital to the central game mechanic of SF. For example if you don't support your front line with green types, they'll have less HP and will have more IP-expensive green techniques. Curiously enough these bonuses only apply at the start of the battle and remain even if you move members to different rows, so having an optimal formation at the start of a battle can mean everything.

[Anonymous No.5170328]

>>5170237
Yeah I figured it out once I got Aima, it feels like a bunch of annoyance while you still got less than four members, after that it kinda clicks.

[Anonymous No.5170347]

>>5168278
>Vandal Hearts

I played Vandal Hearts for the first time in over a decade like a month ago and let me tell you something, sir. That game? Is A FUCKING OKAY. I remember it being my big jam as a kid but in between the release of PS2 and recent days I sort of drifted away from it and that was a real crying shame of me because it was just plain G, DOUBLE-O, Dee, Good.

It was short, but moved at an almost perfect pace. The difficulty was almost perfectly balanced not too hard but far from easy enough to just walk through. Plenty of objectives and hazards on the maps beyond murder everything. Especially nice stages included fighting on exploding bridges or trains that detached cars as you went up it.

Man I kind of want to play it again.

[Anonymous No.5170371]

>>5168582
Comparing Ys to Zelda is a disservice. It's a true A-RPG, not an action adventure game with very slight RPG mechanics.

Also, the bump system is original as fuck and really intense.

[Anonymous No.5170396]

>>5168996
I really like this list and the effort spent on it. Somehow I wish we can fill it with more RPG!

[Anonymous No.5170429]

>>5168996

your image for Persona 1 is from Persona 2. Tales of Destiny's image from Eternia/Destiny 2(us) And I feel like it really should specify that the MD Lunar's need the CD. It's some impressive work overall but Id to see it give people the wrong impression.

Also no Saturn?

[Anonymous No.5170451]

>>5169715
The original FFLs are fucking great. Maybe its just nostalgia, but I couldn't get into the DS remakes.

[Anonymous No.5170493]

>>5170152
>>5170152
The first one borrowes a lot from the first DQ games, it has way less to it than the second one but I feel it's a must play if You like DQ and FF1 combat and Dungeon exploration. Scarce resources combined with those Dungeon layouts have you optimising turns to finish battles taking the least damage posible. Pretty old school, simple but engaging gameplay. A Middle ground between nes and snes jrpg gameplay.

The second one is all about the weapon skills, the IP system gives the characters the best customization out of every jrpg I know, like a mix of the materia and limit(FF8 ver) systems, but not broken like those two. It Also has pretty amazing Dungeons with more and better puzzles than a zelda game.

The combat in returns is just as good, if not better than lufia 2, the Dungeons being randomly generated felt like a huge stepdown, but the game is still pretty good.
>>5170451
I started playing a month ago because all the RS2 threads, they are pretty great games, now that I got to RS2 I actually miss mutants and monsters. Having fun tho.

Also, I skipped RS1, I hear nothing but but things about it, starting with the translation. Should I go back to it after beating RS2? Is it really that bad?

[Anonymous No.5170495]

>>5170493
Bad*

[Anonymous No.5170505]

>>5170493
>Also, I skipped RS1, I hear nothing but but things about it, starting with the translation. Should I go back to it after beating RS2? Is it really that bad?

You're basically better off playing Minstrel Song.

[Anonymous No.5170509]

>>5170429
>Shining the Holy Ark
Grade A patrician taste, friend

[Anonymous No.5170607]

>dat atmostphere
>dat battle theme
https://youtu.be/UgewJQqw_F0

I have now found love

[Anonymous No.5170735]

>>5170493
RS1 is too rough for most people, it would be better for you to just play Minstrel Song once you're done with the games before it.
>>5170607
Wait until you fight MKII/MKIII

[Anonymous No.5170742]

>>5170607
There is a saga track (but I don't know which one) where you can hear a periodic clap.

[Anonymous No.5170751]

>>5170493
RS1 is a fun game to fuck around in for a while, but actually trying to complete it is a nightmare.

[Anonymous No.5170976]

>>5169282
You fags confuse me. Who the fuck plays a Japan RPG for the combat? All of it sucks and is at best serviceable.

If you want good combat, go play a game designed around good combat like Vanquish fag.

[Anonymous No.5170983]

>>5170976
not retro

JRPGs have the best combat of any retro game

[Anonymous No.5171014]

>>5170983
What about fighting games?

[Anonymous No.5171051]

>>5168190
>>5168224
Why are you posting rubbish? We just need some idiot to post Legend of Dragoon now to complete the trifecta of mediocrity.
>>5168841
That is even fucking worse.

[Anonymous No.5171190]

>>5170983
Baldut's Gate is retro and has infinitely better combat that any JRPG of the time. But again, it's not a JRPG whose only focus is railroading you down a singular path. If you don't enjoy the roller coaster, get off the ride.

[Anonymous No.5171198]

>>5171190
>Baldut's Gate is retro and has infinitely better combat that any JRPG of the time
Oh yeah, spamming fireball is so deep and challenging.

[Anonymous No.5171240]

>>5171198
More than spamming A button

[Anonymous No.5171275]

>>5171198
I think there's a pretty big difference to "o shit. I got hit hard, better press the fullheal button" and "O fuck. My strongest warrior was charmed and fucking my entire party up, a basilisk is about to end my game outright, and if I don't cast a summon to help the situation right now while dispelling my charmed warrior, I'm totally fucked."

[Anonymous No.5171279]

>>5171190
what does railroading have to do with combat lmao

[Anonymous No.5171704]

>>5171190
>Baldur's Gate
>combat
>hard
is this bait? that shit is stupidly casual compared to Icewind Dale or Wizardry 8. pausing the game constantly to issue commands effectively is no different than a jrpg with turn-based combat unless you want to handicap yourself by not pausing at all of course.

there's no need to railroad a thread with a pointless argument just because you don't get the appeal of this subgenre

[Anonymous No.5171780]

>>5168228
original on emulator is alright, ds is best. steam is a no no.

[Anonymous No.5171853]

>>5168540
terranigma, i dont know why its not on the list, after that play bahamut lagoon

[Anonymous No.5171858]

>>5168545
front mission

[Anonymous No.5171980]

>>5168540
DUAL ORB 2

[Anonymous No.5171985]

>>5171853
Sounds interesting, will have to give it a go

[Anonymous No.5171990]

>>5171275
Please don't tell me this as a pathetic and desperate attempt at going "HAHA IN JRPG THING IS SIMPLE BUT IN WRPG THING IS NOT!!!".

[Anonymous No.5171997]

>>5168540
Infinity on the gbc is pretty good, there was someone a few months who posted a rom hack that at least made the game beatable. The last part of the game being kind of rough.

[Anonymous No.5172005]

>>5171190
And Final Fantasy Tactics is infinitely better than Baldur's Gate. BG's biggest problem is consistency. Many fights are extremely trivial, and many follow the exact same pattern of JRPGs (focus-fire on one enemy at a time) except without the gimmicks JRPGs tend to throw in to discourage that (eg desperation AI for a last mob standing). Then you'll have one fight be totally unexpected and go to hell in a few seconds probably for dumb RNG reasons (like being charmed); at which point you just quit and reload your last save, make a few a minor adjustments and then steamroll as usual.

Sure, when Baldur's Gate shines, it shines pretty brightly. But JRPGs are more consistently decent, and there's nothing in Baldur's Gate like, say, the Zeromus fight from Final Fantasy IV.

[Anonymous No.5172009]

>>5171990
one thing I will give Baldur's Gate is that it legit tries to do a decent 2D battlefield, something very few JRPGs do. BG doesn't have the spacial depth of a game like FF Tactics and quickly devolves into "melee range or arrow/spell range" in a round or less most of the time, but it's still better than most JRPGs in that respect.

[Anonymous No.5172059]

>>5170607
The composer is a musical savant. His music is godlike.

>Born in Tokyo, Japan, on July 5, 1968, Ito became interested in music at the age of four.[1] He began to learn to play the piano, becoming interested in it after hearing piano music coming from a classroom he passed by daily with his mother. He was also interested in Electone music, but was discouraged from learning it by a piano teacher.[3] By the time he began composing at the age of ten, he had learned to play alto saxophone, clarinet, and piano, and was interested in becoming a singer/songwriter.[1] When he was close to graduating from college, he decided to pursue a career in composing music; when he asked a professor for advice, the professor recommended becoming a video game music composer, given the recent success in Japan of Dragon Quest III. During March 1990, after applying to several video game companies including HAL Laboratory, Ito began working at Square.

[Anonymous No.5172062]

>>5172005
I just read that final line and I was thinking, while I love Baldur's Gate, and I enjoy finally having the chance to kill Saverok, the fight itself isn't terribly exciting. Meanwhile, you have something like FF6's final fight, with the great music changing as you fight this mechanical abomination and ascend to the heavens to fight a god. Maybe the fighting itself is as generic as the rest of the game, but it feels great and exciting to be there, whereas in BG, you just trash on a group of dudes.

[Anonymous No.5172074]

>>5168281
Where is deadly towers on that list? Hard as fuk but a very, very satisfying game to beat.

[Anonymous No.5172078]

>>5172059
that kinda explains why SaGa Frontier had so many diverse genres and styles in its soundtrack while still somehow fits the game as a whole

[Anonymous No.5172268]

>>5168996
I would think Sweet Home should be at least Bronze since it is well known among horror fans and weebs.
Phantasy Star 4 and maybe 2 should be gold. The only reason a jrpg fan would not have tried them would be that they haven't looked at Sega games yet.
I am also wondering why Saturn and TG16 are gone from the list now. I know they have slim pickings in English, but you have other Japan-only games on there for other systems.

[Anonymous No.5172269]

>>5172268

Sweet Home is sort of a meme. People know it more through reputation and youtube than actually getting into it.

[Anonymous No.5172317]

>>5172268
>I am also wondering why Saturn and TG16 are gone from the list now. I know they have slim pickings in English, but you have other Japan-only games on there for other systems.
Post them.

[Anonymous No.5172434]

>>5172062
Yeah, solid dramatic execution can make boss encounters much more satisfying. It's not that I don't enjoy being able to stealth a rogue into a room and open a fight with a quadruple backstab that takes out the dangerous spellcaster, but it can be a bit anti-climactic (and that's just one example of course). Ultimately D&D was designed for a tabletop setting where you share the tension and excitement of each dice roll with a group of friends.

Kefka is a great final boss design but I must admit that I rarely find it challenging without deliberately crippling myself somehow. FF6 just gives you so many powerful weapons and abilities relative to those bosses. Meanwhile at reasonably typical levels(45-55), the Zeromus fight is legitimately exciting in exactly the way I like a final boss fight to be. Z has enough health that it'll take at least 6-10 rounds to beat him with good execution, which should be enough to see his Big Bang AoE attack at least 2-3 times, which is quite capable of taking out your main healer on a lucky roll, forcing you to change your strategy and decide how you're going to get back on your feet (before the next Big Bang, of course).

I love pic-related also, although there's a case where taking him out in a single round before he can get off any attacks is easily the best strategy if you can pull it off.

[Anonymous No.5172535]

>>5171190
>RTwP
>good combat
the IE games would be considerably better if they had TB combat a la Gold Box, Dark Sun, or later on ToEE

[Anonymous No.5172765]

>>5172317
Post what? Look at the previous version of the list, then compare to the one I commented on.

[Anonymous No.5172896]

>>5172535
RTwP is fine in Baldur's Gate. It seems likely you have not actually played the game.

[Anonymous No.5172909]

>>5168545
>it seems to me that turn based combat does not rely on any form of skill, strategy or preparation for that matter
>And when you can't get past a fight it doesn't mean you have to take a different approach but simply that you have to spend the next four hours or so in random encounters until your party stats let you face the next level

So now getting your party members experienced isn't "preparation"?

[Anonymous No.5173014]

>>5168545
Predicting movements is a skill. Like, there's a guard command for a reason. But I most people would just take the hit.

It's kinda like playing a good card game. The luck of the draw is only half of it. You got to track what's been played and what you're discarding.

[Anonymous No.5173329]

>>5172765
Wow. I realize my mistake now. I saw the action RPG list which had Tg16 and some Saturn stuff on it, and mistakenly remembered the regular rpg list as originally having them as well. I was the wrong one. Just want to apologize for being weird. Sorry.

[Anonymous No.5174263]

>that feeling of getting a full-party combo the first time

[Anonymous No.5174398]

>>5170607
i played very little saga frontier years ago
i was always getting stuck and getting oneshot by some enemies
i played the guy that was turned into a superhero
i should give this game another chance

[Anonymous No.5174773]

what games let you keep your experience points if you/your party KO/Die?
I played shining force recently and that i think I like that feature.

[Anonymous No.5174776]

>>5174773
Dragon Quest, Mother/Earthbound, Megaten, Pokemon, Metal Max, Mario RPGs

Really, any Dragon Quest clone probably does it.

[Anonymous No.5174783]

>>5174776
ok thanks

[Anonymous No.5174797]

>>5172078
Frontier's whole shtick is about being a weird fusion of worlds that somehow coexist, Itoken's talent at making literally any and all kinds of music only reinforces the atmosphere and charm of the game, which is why you have anything from chamber music to prog rock and electronic music depending on the scenario and worlds you're in.

[Anonymous No.5175305]

>>5171240
Yeah, spamming left click is way more involved.

[Anonymous No.5176384]

>>5171051
What are your favorites then?

[Anonymous No.5176441]

>>5170152
I grew up with 2. I am properly playing 1 just now. Yep I took that long. Hopefully I'll finish this time.

[Anonymous No.5176573]

>>5176441
The ending will give you feels, I went straight to 2 right after and the title screen intro got me emotional. In a manly way.....

[Anonymous No.5177221]

>>5174398
unless you want to play it at the fullest extent, one scenario is usually enough to get a good impression of the game since they're all seperate and have a beefy amount of play time each. you're basically playing a 7-in-1 game than all of it directly interconnected to each other

[Anonymous No.5177257]

>>5168470
Need a Kusoge infographic. Dual Orb and Ancient Magic are shit.

[Anonymous No.5177265]

>>5168893
Avoid Hoshigami.

[Anonymous No.5178653]

>I don't feel so good

[Anonymous No.5178662]

>>5168281
shit list from a zelda wankboy and hater of turn-based games

[Anonymous No.5178859]

Which jrpgs have the most expansive worlds to explore and traverse? I know plenty let you globetrot, but that doesn't necessarily mean the towns and dungeons have much meaningful or interesting content within them. I suppose technically a game that relegates you to a single town busting with activity could have much more content to it than a game that lets you visit dozens of towns with nothing in them, if that makes sense.

[Anonymous No.5178869]

>>5178859
Dragon Quest III feels like an adventure, great world to explore, interesting towns but since jrpgs are mostly not fetch quest heavy most npcs are just there for the comfy feel or advancing the quest/sidequest.

The only town with a lot of activity that comes to mind is Treno in FF9.

[Anonymous No.5178880]

>>5178653
The boss intro was kino
>Emerges from rubble while slowly walking towards the party from the shadows
>Black X starts warping into the twilight zone
>Music starts
>mfw

[Anonymous No.5179213]

>>5178859

[Anonymous No.5179228]

>>5178662
The turn-based ones were just separated and compiled into a different list.
It's in this thread.

[Anonymous No.5179257]

>>5178859
if you can get past the glacial pacing, Dragon Quest VII had a hugeass world that you can unlock and literally expand. each island has one town which is very much integral to the story while having a unique episode of its own. you'll have a big map by the second half of the game to explore in after finishing each if the island episodes

[Anonymous No.5179273]

what are some jrpgs with lots of towns and lots of people to and feel alive and are not always gloomy and towards story kind of like earlier parts of final fantasy V I am thinking grandia but don't really know, is grandia like that?

[Anonymous No.5179465]

GOAT

[Anonymous No.5179508]

What are some good genesis/mega drive rpg's? I was always a Nintendo kid growing up but recently grabbed the collection on ps4. Sword of Vermillion is pretty good so far, just beat the imposter king.

[Anonymous No.5179517]

>>5179465
The whole game is amazing when you read all the dialog in Tommy Wiseau's voice.

[Anonymous No.5179519]

>>5179508
Obviously I don't need to hear about Phantasy Star or anything included in said collection.

[Anonymous No.5179523]

>>5179517

[Anonymous No.5179627]

>>5168470
>PSX
>no Grandia
kuso list

[Anonymous No.5179821]

>>5179465
>>5179517
>>5179523
wat gaem

[Anonymous No.5180018]

>>5170607
This board has been fellating SaGa more so than usual this past week. Maybe the thread general should come back.

[Anonymous No.5180023]

>>5179257
Or you can play the improved DQVII remake.

[Anonymous No.5180031]

>>5179821
Check out the special file names those posts have

[Anonymous No.5180051]

>>5179517
it's a shame the combat system is so insufferably bland and ugly

[Anonymous No.5180063]

>>5179465
>>5179517
>>5179523
>>5180051
Are you scatt dogpilled?

[Anonymous No.5180362]

>>5180023
im a bit iffy about the remake personally and it's hardly an improvement in some places. they did remove a lot of the little things that made the towns and some dungeons more fun to interact with like puzzles and shit in exchange for faster pacing and a fast forward button, which the latter is a good addition to thae game

[Anonymous No.5181379]

>>5169061
>I mean, I'm not one to discuss the 'rating' system, but SMRPG being anything other than gold is really weird
I'll see what I can do.
>>5170396
>I really like this list and the effort spent on it. Somehow I wish we can fill it with more RPG!
Y-you too anon.
>>5170429
>Tales of Destiny's image from Eternia/Destiny 2(us)
I cannot find a good screenshot. Maybe someone wants to emulate the game and provide a good one (png).
>Also no Saturn?
I'm not experienced enough, is up to contributions like yours.

[Anonymous No.5181485]

>>5168190
I'm thinking of picking up Romancing SaGa 2 while it's on sale. Will I be missing parts of the story by not playing the first game?

[Anonymous No.5181519]

>>5181485
All SaGa games are self contained and completely unrelated to each other.

[Anonymous No.5181536]

>>5181519
Thanks anon.

[Anonymous No.5181597]

>"oh cool, this game I want is on PSN"
>PSP
>can't get it on PS4
Give me one (1) good reason why this shit still exists? I just want to play PSP games on my PS4. It's the same shit as PS1 games that could be downloaded on a PS3 but not a PS4. If I can buy them, let me buy them on the latest fucking console.

[Anonymous No.5182414]

I'm new to JRPGs, I really want to like Final Fantasy since it's arguably the biggest JRPG franchise but just I can't get into it. What is the appeal of these games?
It isn't like I didn't enjoy the other JRPGs I played, I loved Dragon Quest IV and not retro Shin Megami Tensei IV, but Final Fantasy still bores me to tears for some reason.

[Anonymous No.5182478]

>>5179627
Too right, it should be under Saturn.

[Anonymous No.5182596]

>>5182414
>What is the appeal of these games?
FF is an utterly casualized series devoid of any sense of identity, ambition or charm outside of the first two games, it's something of a gateway to the genre but it's not really a competent series outside one or two sporadic games, it has been a cashcow that had to keep the money coming since over three decades by now so it's as lukewarm and accessible as possible to make as much money as possible, and the fact that it's not what you'd call an "auteur" series like DQ or SMT only makes it worse.

It's the usual case of popularity not meaning anything when it comes to quality, even outside of what happen to be personal tastes, FF is as insipid and mediocre as it gets and you shouldn't really care about people calling you a contrarian or shit like that for not liking it.

[Anonymous No.5182621]

>Have played and finish Wild ARMs 2
>decide to give Wild ARMs a go
>That fucking scene where Ziek gets eaten by mother, where it shows her giant jaws as she pounces for him and then the sound of her eating him

I was so fucking surprised it happened holy shit.

[Anonymous No.5182639]

I'm a moron and got the bad ending in Suikoden 2. I don't have any extra save files to go back to either. It hurts

[Anonymous No.5182734]

Anybody played Mystic Ark? It's apparently the sequel to 7th Saga and it got a translation.

It's a fucking weird game, right now I'm at a part where people make towns out of giant fruit and veggies, then have to move on to new ones when they start to rot.
The only bad thing I have to say about it is that it can get kind of confusing about what you need to do to progress sometimes, other than that I'm enjoying it.

[Anonymous No.5182749]

>>5182639
>got the bad ending
Is just a cut scene.

[Anonymous No.5182769]

>>5182734
It's not really a sequel to Elnard/7nth Saga, if anything it's actually a prequel, but that series is so inconstent it's hard to make any sense of a supposed continuity, especially when games like Brain Lord are part of it.
>I'm at a part where people make towns out of giant fruit and veggies
Ah, you're still in the second world, you have a long way to go, it keeps getting better though, the next world will probably be a bit slow in terms of pacing, it becomes more of a detective/horror story in a way with a few long sections with no fighting and puzzles.
>it can get kind of confusing about what you need to do to progress sometimes
Don't know about that, the first world might have given you that impression since the cat wars were supposed to be confusing as a part of the story but I think the game is very straightforward outside of hunting for the items you need for the next worlds or arks, it's also completely linear and fairly simplistic.

Who's your MC, Remeer or Felis?

[Anonymous No.5182771]

>>5182414
Which games did you try?

>>5182596
>FF is an utterly casualized series devoid of any sense of identity, ambition or charm outside of the first two games
FF had a solid identity at least through FF7. That's when it started to shift (not coincidentally Nomura's first character designs)

[Anonymous No.5182798]

>>5182769
I went with Remeer
The confusing part for me was figuring out what I was supposed to do with the hearts at first. I spent an hour wandering around before I realized they go into the figures. Then I got the baby bird heart and couldn't find where to put it until I looked it up.
And I didn't realize you could take all the ally figures at first (and they gain levels just by being in your inventory), so I only had Lux while I fought all the foxes. Haven't really messed around with the other characters yet, I've just been killing the shit out of everything with Lux and his laser beams (and his ATOMIC attack)

[Anonymous No.5182816]

>>5182771
>FF had a solid identity at least through FF7
What is that supposed identity about?
Being generic high fantasy? There's no consistency in the series in either ideas or game structure, let alone mechanical focus, FF is a series that tries to do a bit of everything without doing anything right.

When people talk about identity they mean some common, unifying trait or philosophy behind it, which FF lacks completely.
Dragon Quest is about a globetrotting adventure and simple, down to earth stories, sometimes with a bit of a twist but still down to earth stories, Toriyama's designs and Sugiyama's music have been a constant presence.
SMT has always been about demons, gods and humans, classic dungeon crawling, demon negotiations and Kaneko's unique visual style and ideas, even the more exotic spinoffs like Raidou still retain these basic elements that make the series stand out.
SaGa games have their massive rulesets and casts, minimalistic storytelling, practical growth system implemented into roleplaying, player freedom and experimental approach to game design in general, and yet, despite being a purely experimental series it still has a strong core identity and philosophy.
BoF has Ryu, Nina and the dragons, even the wildly controversial BoF5 has all the key elements of the series.

What exactly does FF have?
Chocobos and some recurring names like Cid Highwind or Shiva?
Each game tries to superficially reinvent the wheel or fix an older one for no good reason, only for the next game to forget everything entirely since it always ends up in the hands of a different director or general core team, trying to ride popular trends or make the series even more simple and less gameplay focused, there's no real idea of what the series stand for outside of visual spectacle, even the NES trilogy has no unifying elements.

[Anonymous No.5182836]

>>5182798
Seems you're not the kind of guy who just checks everything like I do.
In that case I understand where you come from.
>Haven't really messed around with the other characters yet
They're all good outside of maybe Kamiwoo, he's the weaker link of the cast due to being a pure glass cannon with weak toolset and sinergies with the arks, Tokio seems weak at first but his speed and buffs still make him a solid cast member while Miriene is a good party member at any point in the game, Meisia, Lux and Reeshine are on a tier of their own though, Lux is a monster at low levels and only gets a bit more fair later on when the rest catches up, Reeshine in particular becomes absurdly strong once you unlock her charge and Meisia is genocider tier once you unlock a late game Ark, I won't ruin the surprise though, you'll really like it.
Also check the arranged album for the OST, it's rad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xP4umcKRMQ&index=3&list=

[Anonymous No.5182853]

>>5182816
>There's no consistency in the series in either ideas or game structure, let alone mechanical focus
Apparently you haven't actually played any of them because the gameplay mechanics are all very similar.
>Dragon Quest is about a globetrotting adventure
So is Final Fantasy, except that there's usually something beyond just the world.
- World divided into safe spaces and dangerous spaces.
- Safe spaces are typically towns and dangerous places are overworld maps and dungeon levels.
- Dangerous spaces feature random enemy encounters and bosses.
- Encounters are resolved with turn-based combat. Pre-FFIV uses a phase-based system, FFIV-FFIX uses is the ATB system, and FFX uses ATB with the real-time element removed.
- As you progress through the game you find increasingly powerful items, weapons, armor, and spells.
- There's a variant on a standard class system. Fighter, White/Black Mage, Dragoon, Ninja, etc. In FFIV and FFVI each character has a class. In FFIII and FFV you have the "job system" and FFVII has the materia system which works a lot like the Job system.

>Toriyama's designs and Sugiyama's music have been a constant presence.
The first 9 games are all unified by Uematsu soundtracks and the first 6 by Yoshitaka Amano's artwork. Do you just not know anything about Final Fantasy?

>Each game tries to superficially reinvent the wheel
Well that's the thing, they aren't actually trying to reinvent the wheel. You just seem to think they are for some bizarre reason. They mix up the progression system and how abilities are allocated to characters, but the abilities themselves and the general class themes don't change dramatically. If you've played a Final Fantasy game, you know the Black Magic, you know the White Magic, you know what summoned monsters are going to do (until FF10), you know Jump, Throw, Steal. You know Potions, Phoenix Downs, Ethers. In most cases the stats will have predictable effects.

[Anonymous No.5182892]

>>5182853
>because the gameplay mechanics are all very similar.
They aren't, they feel similar because the core design is so weak and bland you can try to mix it up however you like and you still end up with the same thing, but with more or less time spent navigating your menus or grinding.
>They mix up the progression system
They don't, the progression system is always the same EXP. based one, sometimes with or without AP, which is again, the most basic system there is.
>So is Final Fantasy, except that there's usually something beyond just the world.
Except that none of what you listed can be classified as being a solid identity when it's the most incredibly basic set of characteristics any and all JRPG share, even the ATB model isn't unique to FF and even most of the very same games in the series don't use it.
>The first 9 games are all unified by Uematsu soundtracks and the first 6 by Yoshitaka Amano's artwork.
Out of how many games? Fifteen(actually seventeen) entries in the mainline alone, less than half of the series even has any graphical integrity or style, which still matters little by itself.
>but the abilities themselves and the general class themes don't change dramatically.
Because they're extremely basic, generic and without anything but names, if not just an animation to actually identify them.
This is without considering how much the spellkit has changed since the NES games, Dia spells died instantly, so did things like Saber, until FFII came along and actually cemented 90% of the spells the games are using up to now, unfortunately with the same exact amount of depth of a NES game, and again, the same exact things you can find in tons of other games, SMT also has mostly the same exact three tier spell design.
>you know what summoned monsters are going to do
What do they do in FF or FFII?
Why are they an extra lifebar with a timer and mashing minigame in FFVIII, let alone the seven non retro mainlines, or the spinoffs?

[Anonymous No.5182930]

>>5182892
>They aren't, they feel similar because the core design is so weak and bland
Explain your criticism with at least some kind of logic or fuck off to the short bus with the rest of the retards.
>Out of how many games? Fifteen(actually seventeen)
9 out of 9 are Uematsu. That's 100% for the /vr/ run, which is the forum we are on in case you didn't notice. 7/9 are Amano character designs.
>What do they do in FF or FFII?
Yeah they hadn't been added yet. Earlier games were simpler, details were added over time.
>Why are they an extra lifebar with a timer and mashing minigame in FFVIII
FFVIII is admittedly an experimental game and the odd one out for the series (along with maybe FFII).
>Because they're extremely basic, generic and without anything but name
And we're back to you being a drooling retard with no ability to talk about games.

[Anonymous No.5182936]

>>5182414
it really depends whether you can stomach some of the mediocre stories in most games till arguably VI. I found FFV the most fun of all of them when i realized how fun it was to explore the expanded Job System and suddenly i don't even bother following the plot much anymore and experiment what each class can do. Part of the appeal in FF is always the jobs you can pick and play which sadly had been lost in the mainline after V although Dimensions and Bravely Default kinda tried to revive them

Though if you want a game that is the peak of the jobs system, you'd want to play the Tactics games. plus, Matsuno could at least throw in a decent plot to keep you going along with it

[Anonymous No.5182968]

>>5182930
>Explain your criticism with at least some kind of logic
There's really nothing to explain, FF is at its core a basic ungabunga RPG with no mechanical finesse to it, no matter how much you try to swap your toolsets around, give them different multiplier values or fancy animations, at its core there's really no difference between something like Blitz, Omnislash and Renzokuken, they're just big dick damage tools with simplistic calculation.
The spellkit isn't any different, it actually got worse as the series went on, there's no mechanical difference between casting Stone or Death on an enemy, the end result is the same but with different resistance values and Stone not giving you EXP. in some entries, FFII also had Frog which was the same exact thing.
There's no functional difference between the three tier spell system outside of power, it's just kit bloat that has no reason to exist at all because the designers are too lazy to make a stat system that actually matters and design a toolkit around it, you can change how you get those tools or how much they cost all you want, but at the end of the day they will still be the same exact, generic thing at the end of the day, which tons of other equally mediocre games use.
>That's 100% for the /vr/ run, which is the forum we are on in case you didn't notice
You can move the goalposts all you like but it still won't matter, and as I've said, what little graphical consistence you have still won't matter, especially when Amano himself is a freelancer and so many games used his designs, from Front Mission to Rebus, and it's not like his FF designs are even unique.
But I guess you're clinging on this specific point because I mentioned DQ, I can prove the opposite is also true, Metal Max games had quite a few different main artists, and yet they still retain the same general art direction, style and ideas, outside of the very last entry I guess.
>>>

[Anonymous No.5182971]

>>5182968
>FFVIII is admittedly an experimental game
It really isn't, it's just the result of the usual bad habit of shuffling around surface character build mechanics without changing the core system, whether you're equipping Materia, Espers or Junctioning it's still fundamentally the same slot system, what little differences are there between this three systems are formalities at best and nuisances at worst.
FFII did come up with something different on a core level though, not as polished and well thought out as it needed to be to truly express its potential but that eventually grew into its own series anyway, and if you ask me, it's the last true FF game, but that's a rather uncommon opinion.

Call me a drooling retard all you want, but the constant alienation of different generations of FF fans is all the proof you need about the series lacking an actual identity and strong direction behind it, coupled with the eternal inbase bitching about what's supposedly good and what isn't, precisely because the games lack a distinct unifying set of core elements to them, which is also why they renamed the original GB SaGa games as FF games in the west for the record.
You can put the FF name on something else, maybe add a chocobo and some spell names and you'll end up with a FF game, however, you can't do the same with other things, if you tried to pass a FF game for a SMT by doing the same, putting a Jack Frost and some random deities name on monsters people will laugh at you.

[Anonymous No.5183007]

>>5182968
>FF is at its core a basic ungabunga RPG with no mechanical finesse to it
This is simply wrong, particularly with regards to the ATB system. Most other early 90s JRPGs feel clunky and awkward compared to Final Fantasy. Mechanics is where the SNES Final Fantasy games shine, really.
>There's no functional difference between the three tier spell system outside of power
Of course there is, you have power, mana efficiency, and accessibility (which is related to progression that we've established you don't understand as being anything other than gaining exp, so no surprise here). In FFIV you also have cast time.
The consequence is that in battle you can make a tactical decision about which strength spell to use. It's a simple, granular, but meaningful decision that fits easily in the mechanics already in the game and doesn't require anything pointlessly complicated like having to add an extra dialog window where the player must allocate a specific amount of mana to spend on a spell each time you cast it.
In a game that doesn't have a full 2D or 3D battlefield, having these kinds of decisions available is very important.
>too lazy to make a stat system that actually matters
The stat systems do matter, even though the one in 6 is kind of broken. Just because you aren't forced to pay attention to stats because the games are pretty easy doesn't mean it's not there.
>You can move the goalposts all you like
I'm not moving the goalposts, you're making absurdly bland generalizations and have nothing in the way of supporting arguments.
If you want me to concede that post-FF10 Final Fantasy has no identity, fine. But that says absolutely nothing about FF1-FF10, which does have a strong (if gradually evolving) identity.

[Anonymous No.5183023]

>>5183007
>Most other early 90s JRPGs feel clunky and awkward compared to Final Fantasy.
What in the world are you talking about?
>Of course there is, you have power, mana efficiency, and accessibility
None of these things matter at any point in the game since the games are far too easy for any of those things to matter and those toolkits are built to be used on a linear structure and you always have anything you need at any point in the games,FFIII/FFV are also literally entirely built around that despite giving you the illusion of the contrary, with batches of classes being the designated hard counters or upgrades or the week.
>which is related to progression
Progression is linear and scripted, EXP. is a non issue, don't even try to pretend otherwise.
>you can make a tactical decision about which strength spell to use
There no reason at any point of any games to use a lower tier spell once you get the higher ones, outside of XIII, where spells do actually work differently from the rest of the series.
>The stat systems do matter
They don't, the only games where they matter are FF and FFII due to their respective natures of being hard locked with a well define party YOU choose and being forced to micromanage and build your characters manually, in all the other games stats are a literal non issue, whether because the game balance is utterly fucked like in FFVI/VII/VIII or because the characters are hard locked into a certain archeype and growth you have little to no input over like IV or IX.
The fact that those mechanics exist doesn't matter if they're completely worthless.

Think whatever you want though, you yourself said that FF somehow lost its identity from 7 onwards(Despite Nomura being a main designer long before that) and now you say that the problem is only from 10 onwards.

[Anonymous No.5183031]

>>5182971
>the constant alienation of different generations of FF fans
You seem to be taking /v/-tier shitposting or serious arguments nitpicking details a bit too seriously. I criticize FF9 a lot but still enjoy the whole series up to that point.
The ancient NES games are only alienating in same way as any old RPG, with crude, primitive interfaces, awkward pacing and/or too much grinding.
Most Final Fantasy fans like all of the SNES and Playstation games, with maybe one exception. The PSX games gradually place more emphasis on storytelling and minigames over the traditional adventuring, but it happens slowly. Anyone going to FF7 or FF9 from FF6 will feel right at home with all of the gameplay systems, music, and themes.

I would say no real alienation took place until somewhere between FF10 and FF12. FF10 featured the biggest change in art style and themes. That's when you really started to see Nomura's influence. While you can see the shift towards sex appeal with FF7, it wasn't until FF10 that you started getting off-the-wall stupid designs like belt-dresses and V-necks to the crotch. FF10 is also where the "world is a corridor" complaints started appearing for real. And since then it's just been off the rails with no consistency other than obscene production values.

>You can put the FF name on something else, maybe add a chocobo and some spell names and you'll end up with a FF game
maybe now, but you couldn't 20 years ago.

[Anonymous No.5183034]

>>5183023
>you yourself said that FF somehow lost its identity from 7 onwards
But I didn't say that.

[Anonymous No.5183037]

>>5183023
>growth you have little to no input over like IV
You have a lot of control over stats in FFIV, FFV, and FFVII. In FFV sub-abilities come with stat bonuses and penalties. In FFVII they come from materia. In FFIV they come from equipment.

[Anonymous No.5183039]

>>5183023
>I'm too fucking braindead to think of any reason at any point of any games to use a lower tier spell once you get the higher ones
You should never use a stronger version of the spell than is necessary. It is quite common for a lower-tier spell to be all you need. Doubly so if you're just trying to provoke a state change or reaction.

[Anonymous No.5183074]

>>5183031
>but you couldn't 20 years ago.
You totally could 20 years ago, much like you could 30 years ago, Square themselves did it in the first place with Seiken Densetsu and the old SaGa trilogy, what more proof do you need?
FFT is the same, it's literally a watered down TO clone, with a few names and monsters from the mainline, made by the people behind TO on top of that, FFMQ is another example.
The entire brand is little more than a label, and it began to be so much earlier than you'd think.
>>5183037
>You have a lot of control over stats in FFIV
Can I have Yang focus on INT growth or Porom focus on STR? Don't think so.
>FFV
Stats are completely irrelevant in FFV, your job templates alter your characters' hard stats and the game's far too lenient for stats to even matter in the first place, everyone can do everything with no real specialization, and you have no actual control over stat growth itself.
>In FFVII
Again, they don't matter, the game's far too easy for them to matter and all the characters are functionally the same outside of their LB and some gimmick weapon which actually make some difference, the stats in FFVII are completely negligible.
>>5183039
>You should never use a stronger version of the spell than is necessary
Why? Where's the supposed penalty for that? Spending one more turn using an ether from your item stock? Big deal, FF has no resource management nor inherent enemy difficulty to warrant actual MP economy, there's no reason to not use higher tier spells when they're available, the only game I can think of where spell tiers actually matter is Tactics, and even there it all crumbles when you get Arithmeticians, which bypass casting time completely and break the game even further.

[Anonymous No.5183156]

>>5183074
I don't know much about other FF to have a say on them but you argument against 5 is completely off.
>Stats are completely irrelevant in FFV
>your job templates alter your characters' hard stats
How does stats in FFV not matter? Like a character strength,agility, and level alone effect your damage output depending on the weapon.
>game's far too lenient for stats to even matter
Classes with pros and cons and only one ability slot is too lenient?
>everyone can do everything with no real specialization
Only if you grind every job to mastery. Sure you make everyone black mages but you now have shit in terms of physical damage and low health.Its a better idea to spread everyone out to different class lines and make a balance party in any way you can.
>you have no actual control over stat growth itself
In a way yes you have no control over your stat growing like in SMT throughout but their are ways to manipulate stats to a certain class. Like for example the berserker have shit magic and speed but if you give the the "equip harp" ability they gain the magic and speed of a bard while keeping the strength of berserker. This method makes weapons like the gaia hammer more potent in terms of overall damage output to multiple of enemies.

[Anonymous No.5183275]

>accidentally posted this in the CT thread
Help me pick my next psx jrpg, boys. I just finished suikoden 2 and played lunar before it. I think I've got it narrowed down to: xenogears, BoF IV, or Grandia.

[Anonymous No.5183283]

>>5183275
Xenogears

[Anonymous No.5183567]

>>5183275
Grandia definitely. It carries on gamearts' wonderful wholesome and fun adventure vibe that was present in the first 2 Lunar games (and is in very few other games except Skies of Arcadia, because studios opted to mimick square's grimdark scenarios but never achieved their quality).

Xenogears is an unfinished mess, shame because disc 1 is fantastic. Disc 2 is utter garbage and makes no sense.

[Anonymous No.5183689]

>>5183156
>Like a character strength,agility, and level alone effect your damage output depending on the weapon.
You're completely missing the point.
Stats in FFV don't matter because of three reasons:
1)The game balance is, as always, fucked. What little difference in stats there is between characters is unimportant, a Mystic Knight Lenna is hardly different from a MK Bartz on a statistical viewpoint, what little damage or HP difference there might be is irrelevant.
2)Your innate character stats are pointless since changing jobs alters the stat sheet to fit a template anyway, on top of that you can change those further with other ability slots
3)Changing jobs is essentially a soft, optimized respec, there's no commitment to character development, nor is any real freedom, you just swap between premade templates, your MK Bartz will always be the same exact MK Bartz no matter how many times you play the game.
>Classes with pros and cons
The Job system in FFV only gives you pros, there's no cons, no maluses, no inherent handicaps you can't just ignore by mixing and matching, you have no real weakness at any moment in the game, and the fact that there's no actual commitment to your choices means the game falls apart on a mechanical level, which is why the only way for the game to be somewhat of a challenge is the Fiesta runs, where you randomize the class composition and YOU force yourself to stick to them as a self imposed handicap.
>Only if you grind every job to mastery.
Whether you grind or not it doesn't matter, you're missing the point again, any character is good at anything effortlessly and will always be so in any scenario, especially due to how lax the stat system is and the fact that again, you have no control over it outside of swapping premade templates and a subset of toolkits and bonuses that are freely usable by anyone with no real limit other than having one slot per slot category.
It's a fundamentally flawed system.

[Anonymous No.5183702]

>>5183689
Akshully becoming a mage gives a significant damage boost to spells.

[Anonymous No.5183769]

>>5183689
>What little difference in stats there is between characters is unimportant,
>Your innate character stats are pointless
If you knew how level threshold work there's certain times where someone like Faris is better at being thief than the others or Bartz being a knight etc.That's why there's only 4 party members unlike IV and VI large cast.
>your MK Bartz will always be the same exact MK Bartz no matter how many times you play the game.
Maybe but I can take him through a different route next time!
>States cons of the black mage job
>There's no con
Thanks for ignoring my point.
>any character is good at anything effortlessly
Tell me what would the whole point be if someone is way worse at one job than someone else where will be the benefit in that. Its video-games not reality.
>which is why the only way for the game to be somewhat of a challenge is the Fiesta runs
FF5 is the right amount of difficulty not too hard and not too easy pretty comparable to FF4 (JP).I don't don't feel difficulty is that much of a problem for the game only balance of certain abilities.
>fundamentally flawed system.
Its fundamentally enjoyable one.

[Anonymous No.5183998]

>>5183283
>>5183567
Well, I jumped into xenogears and I have to say, boy is it hard to look at. I'm sure I'll transition and get used to it but man is it an eyesore coming from suikoden 2.

[Anonymous No.5184018]

>>5172434
different poster, but I find the baldur's gate games so much more fascinating after I tried out a tabletop rpg for the first time.

it's kind of amazing how well they replicated that feeling, but at the same time, it loses a bit without other people playing with you. I wonder how the multiplayer is.

[Anonymous No.5184293]

>>5183702
Literally doesn't matter whether your black mage does a tiny bit more raw damage than your time mage, which is further made more irrelevant by how damage is handled in general in FFV and how battles are designed, if you want actual damage you go the spellsword+rapid fire route, you use a time mage with twin cast and meteor and whatever else, because stats are irrelevant.
>If you knew how level threshold work
It doesn't matter how level threshold works, whether Galuf does a tiny bit more damage than Bartz as a Monk is irrelevant, the statistical difference between the two is too small to ever be relevant, it's a fine idea in theory that doesn't work in practice for loads of reasons, from a stat system that is horribly designed to the nature of the job system itself and the enemy design, let alone the battle system.
>Maybe but I can take him through a different route next time!
Which changes nothing at all, even if you level him up as a black mage then switch him to a MK he will still be the same MK, and even if you choose to make him a BM he will be the same BM Lenna, Faris and the rest of the cast will be in another scenario.
The characters themselves are irrelevant, they're just vehicles for your classes templates that do not alter the classes' efficiency like they're supposed to.
>Tell me what would the whole point be if someone is way worse at one job than someone else
Don't ask me, you're the one saying that characters having different stats matters when it effectively doesn't, now you're asking me why should those different stats actually matter?
I don't know, maybe because they're DIFFERENT characters? Maybe because that's the entire point of having different, unique stat sheets for the characters themselves?
Why even bother making them if you ain't gonna use those stats? That's exactly why I'm telling you that FFV uses a fundamentally flawed systems that actively goes against itself.
>FF5 is the right amount of difficulty
So none?

[Anonymous No.5184325]

>>5183074
>Square themselves did it in the first place with Seiken Densetsu and the old SaGa trilogy
Game Boy spinoffs.
Obviously you weren't alive when those games were released or you'd know those games weren't remotely considered "real" Final Fantasy games.
>The entire brand is little more than a label
No, it isn't. Your argument boils down to "Final Fantasy is easy therefore they have no identity." That is an idiotic assertion. Kirby is easy, therefore it has no identity. Warcraft is easy, therefore it has no identity.

>Can I have Yang focus on INT growth
No. But it's fascinating how retarded you have to be to stick the term "growth" on there as if that matters.
>Can I have Porom focus on STR? Don't think so.
Yes, you can. She can wear Karate gear and the Headband, which both give a substantial boost to strength. In the vanilla game she's not in your party long enough for it to matter, but if she stuck around it would. This is easiest to see in the FF4 Randomizer. With +str gear and a decent weapon (like the Power staff or a high-end Bow) Porom can do some damage.
>Can I have Rydia focus on STR?
Yep. Heroine Armor or Black Belt, Bandanna, and Fire Whip. This gives hefty bonuses to +STR which substantially boosts her melee ability, while also heavily penalizing the effectiveness of her magic.
>Can I have Cecil focus on Will?
Yes, although by the end of the game his white magic abilities aren't very useful and some of his good gear has +will anyway. Earlier in the game you can certainly use Cecil as a primarily defensive and support character, putting him in the back row and using his Cover ability.
>Can I have Cecil, Kain, and Cid focus on Offense instead of Defense?
Yes, you can load them up with heavy armor or you can give them stat-boosting stuff to enhance their melee output. You can also make that same decision with Edge to some degree, as he has a few choices such as Strength Ring vs Samurai Gauntlet.

[Anonymous No.5184336]

>>5183074
>Spending one more turn using an ether from your item stock?
Yeah this actually can matter a lot. Turns are valuable in Final Fantasy games because battles tend to be rather short.
>Big deal, FF has no resource management nor inherent enemy difficulty to warrant actual MP economy
It does if you want it to. It's a JRPG. You can grind more resources than you need if you want. This does not mean resource use never matters and certainly does not mean the series has no identity.
> the only game I can think of where spell tiers actually matter is Tactics
Odd that you should say this as FF Tactics is one game where the spell tiers really waste a lot of ability space that could have been used for more interesting abilities that made better use of the game's unique mechanics. In FFT, the second rank is often the best option and often you can get by with just Bolt 2, which almost nothing resists, and you can boost with equipment. It's rare to really get much use out of the Rank 3 spells until you unlock Math Skill, and the Rank 4 utility is even rarer.

[Anonymous No.5184352]

>>5184293
>they're just vehicles for your classes templates that do not alter the classes' efficiency like they're supposed to
>like they're supposed to
Who decided that's what they were supposed to do? You? Sure, you can criticize this as unrealized potential. You can say it's casualized to not matter. But you can't say it makes the class system meaningless and you can't say that stats don't matter. You can't say a game lacks identity just because it isn't exactly what you think it should be. I seriously feel like I'm explaining this to a kindergartner right now.
>Why even bother making them if you ain't gonna use those stats?
Most likely because they followed a solid game development process where the engine and mechanics were established as a baseline and then content was designed on top of that system. They probably tried making character-based stats more meaningful and wound up tuning them down to emphasize the job system decisions rather than characters. But they left some minor differences there for people who are really interested in how the system works and want to completely optimize their team, for fun.
>I'm telling you that FFV uses a fundamentally flawed systems that actively goes against itself.
No, it uses a system that goes against what YOU imagine the game is supposed to be about. You appear to have an unhealthy fixation with controlling a character's stat growth. Personally I like growth dynamics but don't pitch a fit when a game doesn't include one in order to emphasize some other aspect of the game.
>whether Galuf does a tiny bit more damage than Bartz as a Monk is irrelevant, the statistical difference between the two is too small to ever be relevant
But it's still there if someone really wants to see it. The class side of the game is focused on picking a primary job, then picking sub-abilities, then selecting equipment. Each decision has a lesser impact on your character's stat profile.

[Anonymous No.5184369]

>>5184293
>tiny bit more damage
You're kinda low balling it. This also relates to their respective speed value in said class.Which even speedruners have to keep in mind.
>now you're asking me why should those different stats actually matter?
No just saying what's wrong with Knight!Lenna being almost as good as anyone else in said class.
>BM Bartz will be the same BM Lenna
Looking at their stats Bartz is a little on the slower side and her magic beats him out by three you might think this doesn't matter much but its a clear gap with the right equipment. Same goes for White mage Lenna will healing about 100 hp more than Bartz which is clearly more optimal.
>So none?
Game that are very easy can't get harder by limiting yourself but the content you're facing is a actual threat to your progression.Job fiesta doesn't suddenly make FFV harder but cuts down on more of your options which kinda misses the point of the game.

[Anonymous No.5184445]

>>5184325
>Game Boy spinoffs.
Not an excuse.
>Your argument boils down to "Final Fantasy is easy
No, my argument is simply that FF has no solid identity due to the general lack of direction and consistency in the series, never once have I said that being easy equates to lack of identity, being generic AND inconsistent howerer, is.
>But it's fascinating how retarded you have to be to stick the term "growth" on there as if that matters.
Growth is literally what matters, if I can't influence how characters GROW I'm just using gimmicks, changing equipment bonuses doesn't change anything and you know it, which is why you started this autistic stream of consciousness as to prove anything, any and all RPGs have equipment provide quirky additional bonuses, FFIV has ONLY that, and even in that case it's a gimmick a best, especially because all characters are hard locked in a specific archetype.
>Turns are valuable in Final Fantasy games
Turns are never valuable in FF because the games do not have any sense of management of urgency, not even the NES games with their limited inventory space do, and you know it.
>It does if you want it to
Nonsense
>It's a JRPG
Even more nonsense, come back when you have an actual argument instead of wasting four posts on nothing but autistic frothing and trying to change the subject.
>Odd that you should say this as FF Tactics is one game where the spell tiers really waste a lot of ability space
It isn't any more different than any other FF, at least casting time tries to make an actual difference.
>Who decided that's what they were supposed to do? You?
I wasn't the one who made a completely useless primary stat sheet for all five characters in the game that is mechanically useless, blame the FFV team, not me, I'm just pointing out their mistakes.

[Anonymous No.5184447]

>>5184445
>>>
>But you can't say it makes the class system meaningless and you can't say that stats don't matter.
Where did I say that? I said that the stat system is irrelevant, not the class system, classes and their toolsets are the only thing that matters, I thought I have been clear about this.

Classes dictate your stats, and due to the mix and match options and the low game difficulty stats hardly matter outside of a very simplistic Fast/slow, Magic/Weapon paradigm, especially between characters, which is why I said that characters are just a proxy for a class and not actual characters.
What makes a Blue Mage worth your time isn't its stat sheet, it's their toolkit, same with Red Mage, which is nothing without its toolkit, or the Ranger, or Geomancer, a good part of the toolkits for all classes are repurposed, common tools too, what makes the difference between a Dragoon and a Knight isn't their stats but their toolkits.
>You're kinda low balling it
Rich coming from somebody who uses speedrunners as an argument expecting to be taken seriously.
>No just saying what's wrong with Knight!Lenna being almost as good as anyone else in said class.
That it fails in its own basic game design principles?
I don't even know what you're trying to say, you're seriously telling me that there's nothing wrong with the game actively going against its own mechanics.
If the game didn't pretend that the characters are supposed to be different by giving them different main stat sheets I wouldn't really raise an eyebrow, it's full of games that make it explicitly clear by not doing this and having only a class stat sheet, but FFV isn't like that, FFV has two stat sheets of which only one matters, this is unarguably faulty, bloated and senseless design.
>you might think this doesn't matter much but its a clear gap with the right equipment.
The right equipment comes far too late for any of that to matter

[Anonymous No.5184457]

>>5184447
>Same goes for White mage Lenna will healing about 100 hp more than Bartz
100HP or even 1000HP in a game with a 9999 range is beyond laughable, don't ever try to pass this as a serious argument ever again, for your sake.

You spent four posts trying to change the subject, posting deliberate nonsense and fallacious arguments and attacking me with assumptions.
My tastes have nothing to do with any of this, I don't like DQ mechanically, but I can still appreciate what it tries to do, it's simplistic but straightforward and concise, even elegant in its own simplicity if you want to describe it as that, even some rare FF are, but FFV isn't one of those games, it's bloated, full of mechanical elements that contradict each other or add meaningless bloat.

And to be perfectly clear, this isn't some kind of personal attack or vendetta against FFV, it's full of games like that, even worse games than that, but if there's something I truly cannot stand is pretending there's nothing wrong with a system that is barely put together, even worse when you pretend you actually have some control in a prebaked, almost completely automated system.

[Anonymous No.5185009]

>>5183689
Just got to this thread and I gotta say a few things.

>1)The game balance is, as always, fucked. What little difference in stats there is between characters is unimportant, a Mystic Knight Lenna is hardly different from a MK Bartz on a statistical viewpoint, what little damage or HP difference there might be is irrelevant.

I gotta agree with you here on the fact that individual character base stats make a very small difference between characters with the same Jobs, I can see why they decided to leave it at that, a more pronounced difference would have been too hard to balance. They take the risk of railroading you into playing characters a certain way every time or intentionally gimping yourself.

>2)Your innate character stats are pointless since changing jobs alters the stat sheet to fit a template anyway, on top of that you can change those further with other ability slots

They are not pointless anon, just of the top of my head:
1-They dictate your combat abilities before you get any Jobs. Duh..
2-They are taken into account to calculate your character abilities, since your Job lvl stat bonusses are just a part of the ecuation, You seem think that job stat bonuses make character stats inconsequential. Ask yourself this.
If while playing Dragon Quest 3 you were to make the terrible mistake of upgrading your class on all of your lvl 25 party at the same time instead of one at a time. You would find yourself with a party so weak you would be forced to return to the starting area to grind your characters for hours and hours back to 25 halting progress completly.
Now in FF5 the stat bonuses and available toolset between a mastered class and a lvl0 class is pretty good but you can switch Jobs at anytime with as many members as you want and simply catch up without halting progress to grind.
What does FF5 have that DQ3 doesn't?

Base stats anon, get it now?

Cont>

[Anonymous No.5185016]

>>5185009
>cont

>3)Changing jobs is essentially a soft, optimized respec, there's no commitment to character development, nor is any real freedom, you just swap between premade templates, your MK Bartz will always be the same exact MK Bartz no matter how many times you play the game.

This is True, but can't be considered a valid criticism of the game because you can not fail at something you ever set out to do. You sound like this :
" Why doesn't bloodborne let me play as a classic Tomb Rider styled TPS?, ammo and gun damage is unbalanced as fuck might as well not have Guns, they are pointless. Shit game from shit devs, they can't program guns"

FFV was never about being TES with chocobos, your very own special Mystic Knight? Anon Jobs are means to an end, FFV has a modular growt system about mixing all the tools and stat bonuses you unlock while progressing in interesting ways, as in finding that !Animals, !dance, !Geo, etc. work very very diferent When mixed with other Jobs and tool sets.

Endgame you have 4-6 mastered Jobs with each character and a few extra abilities of the ones you didn't master but diped your toes nonetheless . You end up
building a cool freelancer party having inherited tools, bonus stats and passive abilities depending on how you decided to play that especific run. I guarantee you your party will have very diffent base stats by the end of the game given that they feed on mastered Jobs and not just on character lvl.

I guess you could grind 50/70 hours out of a game that is only 25/30 hours long, You would end up with the same party for sure, but..... why would you do that ? You simply don't like the FF5, you don't understand what it sets out to do and should just play something else.

[Anonymous No.5185115]

>>5184445
>trying to change the subject.
You can't even stay on subject because your initial assertion about series lacking identity was so insanely retarded that there's literally no defending it. So you keep grasping at random irrelevant criticisms of isolated games, many of which are stupid or outright wrong and thus generate counter-arguments and derailment.

>Growth is literally what matters
It's literally not what matters. What matters are elements that remain consistent between entries in the franchise. That's how an identity is formed. Although if you're the kind of player who only plays RPGs for the "level up to win" dynamic, it makes sense that the growth mechanic is the only one you actually notice.
>any and all RPGs have equipment provide quirky additional bonuses, FFIV has ONLY that
Stat bonuses from equipment are not equally significant in all games. Equipment's affect on stats are not equally significant in all games, nor do stats mean the same thing in all games. Most importantly, there's more to an RPG than the stat system. FFIV has an active-time turn-based combat system, which was unique at the time it was introduced and remained a defining trait of the series for the next five entries.
>Turns are never valuable in FF
Yes they are, unless you level to win. If you play aggressively they definitely matter, and if you can't handle a relative comparison like this you have no business whatsoever making assertions about a series' identity.

[Anonymous No.5185132]

>>5184445
>It isn't any more different than any other FF, at least casting time tries to make an actual difference.
Once again you're just demonstrating you don't really understand the games that you play and probably aren't very good at them. That's fine, but it means you aren't qualified to make generalizations about the whole series.

FFT has a 3D battlefield grid, and every single black magic spell has a nearly identical hit pattern (higher ranks have a slightly larger z-radius, except for 4 which actually does hit a slightly larger xy pattern). This is a huge waste of potential as there could have been black magic spells that used a variety of hit patterns, mana costs, and cast times that would lead to meaningful tactical decisions to make during combat. (Since you don't seem to think about these games in terms of tactical decision-making and simply play level-to-win, this is not surprising).

Furthermore, the importance of cast time is skewed as you level in FFT. There's a huge advantage to hitting a target before it can take a turn, which means a major advantage to the faster, lower level spells. This advantage only increases as unit speeds increase while cast times remain static.

Incidentally, FFIV also has cast times on spells and they are very relevant. It's a shame later games did not keep them.

Oh, also:
>Game Boy Spinoffs: Not an excuse.
Spinoffs and tangents to a series don't say anything about the main series identity. Christ you are dense.

Furthermore, in the case of a game like Final Fantasy Legend, that game came out at a time when Square was not a recognizable brand in the west and the only other RPG they had released was Final Fantasy 1. So yeah, you could say the "series" had no identity in the west, because it wasn't a fucking series yet in NA, it was just a brand and the only one Square had. It was a smart decision.

[Anonymous No.5185145]

>>5184447
>Rich coming from somebody who uses speedrunners as an argument expecting to be taken seriously.
Your argument suffers from the flaw in the opposite direction. Actual speedrunning goes way too far, but at least playing a game aggressively and taking risks rather than progressing slowly and safely will get you far more familiar with the mechanics and their implications and give you a much better appreciation for how a game is designed.

[Anonymous No.5185178]

>>5184447
>If the game didn't pretend that the characters are supposed to be different by giving them different main stat sheets I wouldn't really raise an eyebrow, it's full of games that make it explicitly clear by not doing this and having only a class stat sheet, but FFV isn't like that, FFV has two stat sheets of which only one matters, this is unarguably faulty, bloated and senseless design.
It's clear you just don't understand the first thing about game systems or design. If content designers decide they want the starting stats on characters to not have major differences for the sake of gameplay, that's exactly the right place to do it. And if those designers want to make minor differences to the stats just to show that yes, the underlying system accommodates it, that's also perfectly fucking fine. Only a complete fucking retard would argue that you should design a system that completely prevents you from assigning individual stats to characters to avoid some vague concept of "bloat."

If you look at most D&D games made in the 80s and 90s, none of them fully implemented the ruleset. They all implemented some subset. And on top of that implemented ruleset, they only included a subset of the possible content that could be built on that system. That's just a fact of game design. Content gets built on the system, and a good system can support a wide variety of content. That doesn't mean it's "bloated" it means it's a well-designed system.

[Anonymous No.5185351]

>>5185009
>If while playing Dragon Quest 3
DQ3 works on a fundamentally different model all around, you can't compare it to FFV, and your carefully crafted scenario is literally a newbie trap and doesn't go further than that, moreover:
>You would find yourself with a party so weak
That wouldn't happen if equipment was actually implemented well, e.g. like in SaGa games, from which FF should have taken a clue or two, in there it's common to be able to recruit characters with extremely low stats even at the end of your playthrough due to the nonlinear nature of the games, you know how those characters can carry their own? Equipment, and much faster, more balanced growth rate, with no need of multiple stat tables that cannibalize each other, a lot of other games also figured this out since decades, how is it that FF couldn't (and still can't)?
>" Why doesn't bloodborne let me play as a classic Tomb Rider styled TPS?
Because it's not a TR style TPS in the first place? That is your argument for FFV? That it's somehow its own supposed style of RPG?
I'm sorry, I cannot take you seriously with this, there are so many ways to fix FFV without compromising its structural integrity and purpose, and most of those come down to simply making math formulas that actually matter, cut out the bloat and making mechanics that actually matter instead of multiple layers of bloat that compromise themselves.
How about adding proper weapon differences instead of flat multipliers so that weapon types aren't just stat sticks with some rare, stale gimmick such as elements or stat multipliers? How about adding proper EXP/AP Bonuses tied to job level so whenever you switch you'll be able to catch up fast? How about fixing equipment relations to character stats so you don't need a pointless secondary sheet that is also unnecessarily complicated and a waste of space and time?

[Anonymous No.5185353]

>>5185115
>You can't even stay on subject
Says the guy conflating my points about mechanical mistakes with my points about identity.
>Stat bonuses from equipment are not equally significant in all games.
I didn't deny that which is why i said the're not in -FFIV-, maybe you should take your time and read other people's posts carefully instead of just vomiting insults and half baked posts.
>Most importantly, there's more to an RPG than the stat system.
I agree, and it's a pity that FF games don't have something more to them other than that.
>Yes they are, unless you level to win.
Not really, maybe you could say that for the early game for a few entries like 2, where enemies are actually dangerous, but no, the overwhelming majority of the series doesn't have any sense of turn urgency, healing items abound, healing magic is far too powerful for turns to matter, you can reset anything to neutral with no effort since there's no proper economy or balancing to FF games.
>This is a huge waste of potential
I completely agree, but what does that have to do with what I said about casting time specifically?
FFT has more holes than swiss cheese, but I'm not here for that, we could dedicate an entire thread to that, but I'm not here for it.
>Spinoffs and tangents to a series don't say anything about the main series identity.
Seems to me they do, and also tell you a lot about how the creators see their own stuff.
>It was a smart decision.
It wasn't, in any possible way, it was a short term solution to make money, rebranding an entire series like that not only hurt the rebranded series itself, it shows how they were already putting too many eggs in one basket AND the fact that they were already treating FF as a label, as I've already pointed out.
Ask yourself why Dragon Quest only had three spinoff series to this day, only two which play wildly differently from the mainline, and still have a lot more in common with each other than FF spinoffs have with their mainline.

[Anonymous No.5185795]

>>5185351
>DQ3 works on a fundamentally different model all around, you can't compare it to FFV
DQ3 Jobs are not meant to be modular and instead are a long term commitment, not better or worse just a diferent vision for a job system, but the fact that they decided to go with base stats+ job stats for DQ6 onwards is sugestive that someone at enix liked the FF3 take, so did all the copy cats that came later.
I was merely explaning what is it that the base stats do in the game , You kept repating that they were pointless and I was merely being informative. Now you seem to have changed argument to : it does something but, but we could totally remove it if we were to put something else in it's place to cover the hole.
Is there more than one way to skin cat anon?, no shit Sherlock.

>a lot of other games also figured this out since decades, how is it that FF couldn't (and still can't)?
I know right, they could have totally experimented with FF2 and FF8 and gauge reception but they went with the classic route, pussys.

>That is your argument for FFV? That it's somehow its own supposed style of RPG?
My argument was that every game should strive to be unique in mechanics and aproach.

You spend half your post saying every mechanic in FF5 sucks, bar none and then listing a few great Saga game mechanics wich FF5 does not feature in any shape way or form, this makes them more of a sidegrade than substitute for the FF5 job system because there is no equivalent for it in SaGa either , there are classes and races, but no Jobs per se.
FF taking tips from SaGa would be the equivalent of Mario Kart taking tips from F-zero anon, like, what the fuck for? They are made by the same people, they are totally diferent by design, were ment to scratch diferent itches and while one of them can be considered overall deeper and skill based and one of them streamlined and fuck around oriented, not being able to apreciate both says more about you than FFV. Joyless contrarian kun.

[Anonymous No.5185864]

>>5172062
You can also kill Sarevok without being touched just abusing the retarded AI.

[Anonymous No.5188219]

Guys, help. I want to like Robopon but the input lag on this game is a MASSIVE turnoff even if i love the fact you can basically build your own cute robot to kill each other with. are there other games that scratches this itch other than the medarot games?

[Anonymous No.5188353]

>>5185795
>FF taking tips from SaGa
Would be actually good, doesn't really take much to implement common sense stuff like weapons having different damage types, actual statistical balance or having proper EXP. distribution, nobody's asking for FF to be a SaGa clone, just to learn the very basics of game design that aren't even unique to that series, that's literally all you need.

I mean, this is all the more embarassing for FF especially when you consider they're both games from the same compaby, and considering that unlike SaGa it's a series of completely linear and railroaded games implementing those basic RPG features and having better balance would be a lot easier.

But reading this thread I guess that the standard for FF is so low anything goes as long as you see big numbers flashing on the screen.

[Anonymous No.5188401]

>>5188353
I already get to play both Sa.Ga and classic FF, I really don't see any gain at all from making them more similar , like... There is a lot more Bluberry and cheese ice cream than plain old, but since I can eat both, why would vanilla need to take take tips? So we can get even less variety to pick from? Or do you mean mix both flavors? Because that has lot of more chances of sucking for everyone.

If you mean current FF franchise, then yeah, a SaGa styled game getting half the budget a FF would be the dream, or at least for you, me and a few other enthusiasts.

[Anonymous No.5188405]

>>5188401
>There is a lot more to Bluberry and cheese ice cream than plain old vanilla

Well shit,posting from my phone while playing on my hammoc..

[Anonymous No.5188480]

>>5188401
>I really don't see any gain at all from making them more similar
Maybe actually read what I've written before posting this drivel.
Nobody fucking said FF needed or needs to become exactly like SaGa, just to actually care about mechanics and balance like that series does.
If you think having a tiny bit of mechanical polish and complexity would make FF too similar to SaGa I don't know what to tell you, SaGa has maybe one or two mechanics unique to it, the rest is just fucking common sense that FF never had, blindly defending such an embarassingly bad franchise in this way is all the more pathetic.

[Anonymous No.5188520]

What are the best JRPG fantrans?

[Anonymous No.5188532]

>>5188480
Your arguments against FF's mechanics have been terrible. You don't really come across as someone who has a solid grasp on what makes a good game, much less a good RPG.
>blindly defending such an embarassingly bad franchise
It's not blind defense. Your arguments have been all over the place. The only consistent theme is a raging hateboner for Final Fantasy that seems to interfere with your ability to make any kind of astute criticism.

>>5185353
>Says the guy conflating my points about mechanical mistakes with my points about identity.
No, this entire discussion started because you made an assertion about identity. You made broad, sweeping accusations against the Final Fantasy series and have been hilariously unable to actually support those claims with a coherent argument.

>I didn't deny that which is why i said the're not in -FFIV-,
Ok, spoonfeeding time I guess. My point is: What other games accomplish with a mix of stat-altering features, FFIV does primarily with items. This is neither a positive or negative thing. FFV is not inherently better because item-based stat mods are minimal while job/ability based mods are more substantial. It's just a different way to accomplish a similar thing. So your attempt to criticize FFIV as having only one thing instead of having more like it should, is just absolutely fucking retarded.
>it's a pity that FF games don't have something more to them other than that.
They do, you are apparently just too dumb to notice to any of it.

[Anonymous No.5188536]

>>5188520
Mother 3

[Anonymous No.5188808]

SaGa Frontier 1 or 2?
Never played any of them, but the idea of having to beat a game several times to actually beat it seems daunting.

[Anonymous No.5188831]

>>5188520
>>5188536
Dual Orb 2

[Anonymous No.5188848]

Dragon quest 11 while not looking retro is the best representation of classic jrpg gameplay I ever played.

[Anonymous No.5188923]

>>5188848
it's almost as if it's not a retro game

[Anonymous No.5188979]

>>5188808
Completely different games despite sharing similar basic mechanics
>but the idea of having to beat a game several times to actually beat it seems daunting.
SaGa Frontier has seven different MCs with seven different stories, with content completely unique to each of those, so it's like having seven small games into one.
SaGa Frontier 2 is nothing like that, it's a single storyline, over which you have next to no control over so it's more like a standard story driven RPG, outside of the missable stuff.

Frontier 1 is overall more newbie friendly than 2 though, however, to truly get everything out of the game's narrative you need to play all the characters' stories since each MC has lore and other things that other MCs do not, there will also be a few conflicting events but SaGa games with multiple MCs tend to work on a "quantum universe" model where all the possibilities, no matter how apparently contradicting, are valid.

[Anonymous No.5188996]

>>5168190
>best action jrpg
here

[Anonymous No.5189013]

>>5188923
It's retro in feel for sure

[Anonymous No.5189020]

>>5188480
Not trying to sell you on FF anon, clearly
sakaguchi must have kicked your puppy or something since so far you have not mention a single FF mechanic that You do like wich I find a little Weird, everything sucks?, really? .

As far as balance in Saga, You must be talking about the ones I have yet to play, the ones on PS1 and onwards.
The first three on gameboy are super unbalanced are easy to break, FF8 levels of broken but without the shitty Draw mechanic. Wich makes them some of the most fun I have ever had in vidya, seriously, charming games really, but balanced is a Word that doesn't fit with them.
Saga 1:
Monsters are a waste of a slot for the whole game, mutants quickly become at least 3 times more useful than humans by the end of the first world, makes you wish you had recruted 4 of them and went balls to the wall, by half the game you already hit the limit in most stats. By the 4th world you can actually spare Cash to upgrade your humans, do they catch up? Not only that, since their stat limit is actually 2.5 times that of mutants, You now wish you had 4 humans instead.
Saga 2 is the same but with robots, growth between racess is still all over the place but at least there no useless races anymore, this is but far my favourite, feels more polished but still fun to break.
Saga 3 is very meh, adopts a level based growth system while still retaining all of the old systemsand races not tied to stat growth, overall the most balnaced but way too easy, charming still, but becomes predictable gameplay wise.

Cont....

[Anonymous No.5189070]

>>5189020
.... cont

Now RS2, is balanced for sure, in a very very restrictive way, every character you recruit apart from your heir is only good for one thing and pasable in another, maybe. Trying to waste AP teaching them something is a waste of time, by the next generation jump they will be back with gains only in areas that fit their predertermined uses.
The scaling system is whack as well, some scenarios feel too Hard and some too easy, since the game takes only takes into acount battles fought and cares not for what you actually fought, wich is pretty random, any given encounter can contain either a single low tier and net you no reward , or 6 strong ones and and windfall of AP. This makes the difficulty curve erratic, and is easily exploitable as well should you wish to make make an easy speedrun.

The scenarios are interesting, the make you feel like shaping history half the time and an errand boy the rest.

Boss battles and Hard encounters are super fun, debuffs and physical skills are pretty useful and varied. If only the difficulty of sparking New abilities didn't discourage the use of some old knes.but overall great combat.

The story is ok, but since your party has no personality and are just generic units.

I Have yet to play newer entries in the series, will get to it in time, but overall I liked the GB games way more.

[Anonymous No.5189212]

>>5188808
if you want a game with multiple possibilities, a banging soundtrack and an intense atmosphere? get SaGa Frontier 1

if you want a story that span generations of your MCs in-game and enjoy seeing your actions carry weight with a gorgeous painterly aesthetic to boot? get SaGa Frontier 2

[Anonymous No.5189269]

>>5171051
Fuck you nigger, the Suikoden games are great

[Anonymous No.5189310]

We all know the best jrpg is this right here

[Anonymous No.5189383]

When does xenogears get good?

[Anonymous No.5189509]

>>5189383
it doesn't, drop it before you waste more time

[Anonymous No.5189563]

>>5168228
Is there any way to speed up the load times when emulating the PS1 version?

[Anonymous No.5189575]

>>5168281
based

[Anonymous No.5189972]

BoF3 or BoF4? Which should I play if Im only going to play one?

[Anonymous No.5189978]

>>5189972
BoF2 re-translation

[Anonymous No.5189992]

>>5189383
Second disk.

[Anonymous No.5190109]

>>5189383
depends on what you mean and what you want from the game...
most major plot threads are tied up by the end but it takes a long time to get there and some of it is convoluted. Some sections of the game drag. But Fei bangs Elly above Mahanon.
the gameplay never really gets much better. Foot combat is pretty easy and boring unless you really enjoy the animations. Gear combat does get gradually better to a point as you get some more options, but not dramatically so.

[Anonymous No.5190114]

I love these first person console RPGs FromSoftware was making before switching to Souls and their ilk. The King's Field series, the Shadow Tower series, Eternal Ring. There's something very satisfying about exploring a world as this slowly-walking dude with your end goal being simple and yet so distant, as you have to traverse these vast yet so compact-feeling dungeons and worlds filled to the brim with scores of different enemies and traps, tapping walls like a loon when trying to find secrets and collecting various items, magic and tons of equipment and also finding various helpful (or not so much) NPCs. Wish my descriptions could do them justice but they are definitely way more niche than Souls.

[Anonymous No.5191430]

>>5189383

When you load it into a clay pigeon launcher and blast it to hell.

[Anonymous No.5191727]

>>5168214
based
>>5168216
ok

[Anonymous No.5191731]

>>5168374
omg that filter is disgusting
fucking sprites fuck

[Anonymous No.5191732]

>>5168470
>shining in the darkness
>no shining force

[Anonymous No.5191739]

>>5168545
turn based tactics games such as xcom and jagged alliance definitely fit your bill
but turn based combat "RPG" not many do. Some of them really are hard as shit though. I recommend Disciples of Steel if you think they're too simple or easy.

[Anonymous No.5191742]

>>5170429
shining force 3 is on saturn and its the main reason i bought a saturn

[Anonymous No.5191765]

>>5189310
Honest question, is this still worth playing if you fucking hate Mario? Both as a franchise and the character