/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.5146686]

Almost every criticism I hear about this game is retarded. Nothing is without its flaws, but the way this fantastic title has been memed into shit-tier status by zoomer faggots is unbelievable.

What exactly do people dislike about this game? I'm sure there are some valid complaints here and there, like some of the unskippable text, but really, how many of these criticisms dont just boil down to nitpicking? How many of these same complaints would people hold against games that aren't OoT? The fact that people have to attack an amazing game on the basis of something as retarded as text speed is a clear indication of just how good this game is.

Don't listen to what the haters say. This game was revolutionary in 1998, and it's still fun as fuck in 2018.

[Anonymous No.5146694]

>>5146686
My only real criticism is that parts of the game feel like they're cockblocking you from doing what you want to do, which is exploration and dungeon-crawling. However, of the 3D zeldas, OOT has the least amount. Later games like WW, TP, and SS are fucking insane with the amount of cockblocking, forced tutorials, unskippable bullshit, tedious padding, etc.

[Anonymous No.5146695]

I literally cannot think of a single flaw about it without sounding like a whiny nitpicky faggot.
It might as well be the perfect video game, or at the very least one of the big 3.

[Anonymous No.5146696]

Every popular game gets this treatment. You'll learn to accept it soon enough.

[Anonymous No.5146726]

>>5146686
>What exactly do people dislike about this game?
It's not the sequel I wanted, and it's not the "OMGWTFBBQ BEST GAME EVAR" that's been spouted by everyone and every where for the last 20 years.

[Anonymous No.5146743]

>>5146686
>What exactly do people dislike about this game?
It's more like what exactly does this game do particularly well that warrants all the praise it gets? It's a nice fine game, but that's it, there is nothing that it executes so well so as to be considered one of the greatest games ever made.

>combat
It so badly misses the mark on combat, where the previous Zelda entries had combat that either made the player deal with 10 things going on at once with projectiles everywhere and warping enemies all over the screen in later dungeons in the top down entries, or, in Zelda 2, fast intense enemies with impressive AI and irregular patterns that required precision and intense button mashing to survive. OoT's combat is basically lock on Z and press attack to win, enemies will often stand there one at a time waiting for you to kill their friends. It's a huge step backwards compared to the first few games in the series, and it's not particularly rewarding. Just compared OoT's Shadow Link to Zelda 2's Shadow Link, it's no comparison at all.

1/2

[Anonymous No.5146745]

>>5146726
>I dislike it because I do
Sounds like typical Ocarina criticism.

Throw me a bone here, why isn't it the sequel you wanted? What did you really not like about it? Often times, the biggest criticism I hear from fans of the older games is that OoT is too restrictive and not open enough, and I just don't get it. Zelda 1 was repetitive as shit, ALttP has much of the same streamlining as OoT with half as much content... what did you want from a sequel that this game didn't give you? I am genuinely curious.

[Anonymous No.5146748]

>>5146743
>Exploration
It also radically changed the way the player interacts with the Zelda overworld, in a much worse way. In Zelda 1 and LttP, the Overworld was almost treated as one big dungeon with tons of puzzles and secrets to find everywhere all over the map, obviously LttP was more puzzle oriented and Zelda 1 was more exploration oriented, often requiring the player to make their own maps and map out the terrain through trial and error. They both allowed for non linear play and the way the player interacted with the world changed based on what tools the player acquired. OoT completely watered down this experience and changed it into a series of hub worlds interconnected through a very big empty open field that simply required running from one side of it to the next. The "secrets" in the game were mostly the same repeat hole in the ground over and over again. There is just so much more going on in 1 and LttP to do in the world. Zelda 2 is kind of the exception here, it's overworld is treated much more like OoT, but Zelda 2 requires pretty intense platforming and sword play to get from one area of the map to the next, filling a void which OoT fails to fill with it's mindless rolling from one hub to another.

I personally don't like the art direction, that's a matter of personal taste though. They ramped up the goofy and silly as high as possible for 3D Zelda. Not saying it needs to be super serious, but they went overboard with it, combined with the fairy that tells you where to go and what to do, it feels like a game made for toddlers.

I could go on and on, but I digress, it's a nice game and all, but really, I remember playing this game when it came out, having fun with it, and waiting and waiting for it to finally open up and give me that rich exploration experience, it just never happened. It was the beginning of these hand holding narratives, and a transfer away from everything that made games so great in the first place.

2/2

[Anonymous No.5146757]

>>5146748
>I personally don't like the art direction, that's a matter of personal taste though. They ramped up the goofy and silly as high as possible for 3D Zelda. Not saying it needs to be super serious, but they went overboard with it, combined with the fairy that tells you where to go and what to do, it feels like a game made for toddlers.
except having a fairy, this started with wind waker, not the n64 games

[Anonymous No.5146759]

>>5146686

my only criticism is how easy it is on a replay, I basically have to do a 3 heart run to make it challenging

but yea the kind of guys that hate on this game are people whom hate themselves like egoraptor

[Anonymous No.5146760]

[Anonymous No.5146761]

>>5146743
OoT's combat sucks when Zelda 1's enemies were all some variation of "walk into you" or "walk into you or shoot at you"? Lol, come on dude.
>Zelda 2
>impressive AI
Now you're just being silly.

Older Zelda combat was definitely more difficult... but only because it took a very arcade-like approach of throwing tons of braindead enemies at you, not because the combat itself was engaging or requiring of skill. Also, let's not forget that the bosses (at least in Zelda 1) were an absolute joke and could usually be killed in a few hits. OoT's bosses aren't particularly challenging, but certainly moreso than Zelda 1.

Combat isn't the focus of OoT, it takes a sideline to the questing and exploration, which I think is fine. Also, the actual combat itself is, for me, a lot more fun than it is in the older games. The audio-visual feedback of slashing an enemy, listening to the chunky sword strikes and seeing them burst into colorful games feels so much more satisfying than just poking them until they die in a flash.

[Anonymous No.5146793]

>>5146757
wrong

[Anonymous No.5146806]

>>5146761
>exploration
WHAT exploration?

>The audio-visual feedback of slashing an enemy, listening to the chunky sword strikes and seeing them burst into colorful games feels so much more satisfying than just poking them until they die in a flash.
Oh, so it's just because it looks and sounds better that you prefer it so much.

[Anonymous No.5146807]

>>5146686
About 40% of zoomers have no reading comprehension skills, so don't worry about it man.

[Anonymous No.5146810]

>>5146686
Most people I ask just screech about the graphics when I ask them why they hate it. Weird.

[Anonymous No.5146816]

>>5146748
As a fan of the game and this being my favorite Zelda, I'll cave and admit that Hyrule Field is weak as hell. There's nothing exciting or interesting about it, it just feels like it's there to show off the N64's tech.

[Anonymous No.5146817]

>>5146686
Every person who says OoT is the best game ever and then goes to shit on LoZ and AoL just gives away that they were born in the 90s and never even grew up with the first games but only checked them out after playing OoT. And as such they base their opinions on those games on how they differ from OoT with glasses tinted from their time period, instead of taking in account the hardware for that time and how it influenced the design choices of games back then. That's why you hear them say stupid shit like >>5146761.

[Anonymous No.5146823]

>>5146745
>why isn't it the sequel you wanted?
Because it's not Zelda 1. Because it's like ALttP but worse. Combat is clunky and locked down. It's basically linear. I don't want cutscenes with children protagonists. I don't want bucktooth villagers and cougar fairies. I don't want sneaking minigames. I don't want the dungeon designs and the puzzles that you see the solution to as soon as you enter and then have to spend 5 minutes just going through all the motions. I don't want Navi and I don't want owls and I sure as hell don't want their text dumps that ends with "Do you want to hear that again -> YES".

[Anonymous No.5146831]

>>5146823
Just what would you have liked OoT to look like exactly? Because many of those things you listed don't detract from the gameplay at all.

[Anonymous No.5146832]

>>5146759
>but yea the kind of guys that hate on this game are people whom hate themselves like egoraptor
Come on dumbass the OP baited these responses. The reasons for not liking Ocarina are dead obvious to those of us who dislike it, and it's all variations on the same fucking things that fanboys are never able to refute.

not enough combat
combat is boring
too much emphasis on completing trivial tasks and solving puzzles that involve no risk of failure or consequences.

>>5146761
>OoT's combat sucks when Zelda 1's enemies were all some variation of "walk into you" or "walk into you or shoot at you"? Lol, come on dude.
This just makes Ocarina's failure all the more embarassing. Despite the simplicity and crude mechanics of Zelda 1, the enemy design is memorable and varied. Turns out the number of variations on "walk into you" are rather impressive when you take into account different environmental factors and paired enemies. Especially when you take into account the different weapons at Link's disposal. For example, a tactic you might use against a room with Wizzrobes and Like-Likes is to use arrows to take out the Like-Likes first because you limit your frames of vulnerability. Or you might want to take out the Wizrobes first since they're more likely to kill you. Either approach takes skill to pull off.

And this is all for a NES game made in fucking 1986 that fits into a 130k ROM.

[Anonymous No.5146835]

>>5146810
you must have a lot of friends who are young and dumb

[Anonymous No.5146839]

>>5146835
I never said I was friends with them.

[Anonymous No.5146841]

>>5146686

This board is full on contrarians.

If you said you thinking eating shit is disgusting, some homo on here would write an essay about why eating shit is actually a form of valuable art and a delicious delicacy in other places.

Don't waste your time trying to figure out why these guys are retarded, it's a pretty damn good game, enjoy it.

[Anonymous No.5146848]

>>5146831
>Just what would you have liked OoT to look like exactly?
Not him but:
Dark Souls with Zelda-style weapons and an open overworld like the original NES game.
(The Ocarina engine would have been fine, though, the issue is the content not the mechanics)

[Anonymous No.5146854]

>>5146841
The funniest part is that people who criticize Ocarina almost always admit that it's at least a decent game with redeeming qualities. They have specific criticisms. That's not evidence of contrarianism. Most contrarians are much harsher.

[Anonymous No.5146867]

>>5146686
the only real complaint is how childlike the characters and graphics are. when i first played it, yeah it was awesome. now, its just less than savory and definitely geared towards 8 year old boys.

[Anonymous No.5147308]

>>5146694
>My only real criticism is that parts of the game feel like they're cockblocking you from doing what you want to do, which is exploration and dungeon-crawling.

The rocks blocking Zora's river as a child are the one genuinely stupid instance of this. There's no real reason the game shouldn't have allowed you to explore Zora's Domain before Death Mountain.

[Anonymous No.5147412]

>>5146686
Do we SERIOUSLY need yet another thread from a FURIOUS Nintoddler defending one of the dullest series of all time? Seriously each episode following the boy "adventurer" and his pals from Hyrule as they fight assorted villains has been indistinguishable from the others. Aside from the cartoonish imagery, the series’ only consistency has been its lack of excitement and ineffective use of repetitive puzzles, all to make magic unmagical, to make action seem inert.
Perhaps the die was cast when Nintendo vetoed the idea of a third party producing the games; Miyanoto made sure the series would never be mistaken for a work of art that meant anything to anybody- just ridiculously profitable crosspromotion for their annual "party games" and childish fighting franchise. The Zelda series might be anti-Sony (or not), but it’s certainly the anti-Spyro series in its refusal of wonder, beauty and excitement. No one wants to face that fact.

>a-at least the platforming elements were good though

"No!"

The writing is dreadful; the exploration was nonexistent. As I played, I noticed that every time Link went to "explore" a largely empty world, Nintendo shoehorned in some repetitive puzzles to pad out the game. I began marking on the back of a Nintendo Power magazine every time I came to the same rehashed box pushing/lever pulling puzzles. I stopped only after I had marked the envelope several dozen times. I was incredulous. Nintendo's team is so governed by cliches and milking tired franchises ad nauseum that they have no other style of development. Later I watched a lavish, loving Let's Play of The Ocarina of Time by some YouTube manchild. He said something to the effect of, "If these kids are playing Ocarina of Time at 11 or 12, then when they get older they will go on to owning a Nintendo Switch." And he was quite right. He was not being ironic. When you play The Ocarina of Time you are, in fact, trained to play the same dull Nintendo rehashes decade after decade.

[Anonymous No.5147461]

>>5146686
The biggest issues I have are that the text speed is too slow, cutscenes can't be skipped, and traveling across Hyrule Field takes forever even with Epona. But it's really just nitpicks at that point.

>>5147412
It doesn't really have the same punch without a tierlist putting the game at the bottom.

[Anonymous No.5147498]

>>5147412
Oh look it's that pasta again. Do we SERIOUSLY need a version of that in every recurring /vr/ thread?

[Anonymous No.5147504]

>>5147498
This thread topic is pretty much copypasta itself.

There's a variation every week from someone who can't accept the fact that the series peaked with A Link to the Past and has been stuck in a slump of mediocrity ever since.

[Anonymous No.5147505]

>>5146686
I won't call it a bad game and I won't try to tell you the reasons I don't like the game are inherent flaws.

But I will say I do not like this game at all and find it repulsive to look at and an absolute slog to play through.

It was the game that finally made me sell off my N64 back when it came out in 1998.

[Anonymous No.5147508]

>>5147505
1998 was a great year for video games, it's good that you didn't waste it replaying OoT ad nauseum like most nintendrone autists did.

[Anonymous No.5147586]

I love the game but there are valid reasons for not liking it. A big part if it is the combat people talk about but I think a bigger factor related to that is just a lack of adrenaline outside of cinematic flourish.

Earlier games had tons of action throughout. Even without getting into the actual combat mechanics, oot just has a significantly slower and mellower pace to it than earlier games. To a lot of people the game has a lot of nothing.

Biggest problem was that the future of hyrule field somehow has less enemies and dangers than the child version. If it had been filled with stalfos and likelikes and guays and poes and all the other enemies traversal would’ve been way better. Unfortunately not even master quest addresses this and inly changes dungeons. Pretty much the whole overworld except part of death mountain, the haunted wasteland, and very temporarily kokori forest are all safe spaces where you never have to worry.

I still consider it fantastic and I’m glad they were willing to experiment with the series, but it’s understandable why older fans would feel let down or even forgotten about.

[Anonymous No.5147741]

>>5146832
"Use arrows to kill thing"
"Kill this one thing before the others"
Mate, you can do these in Ocarina.

[Anonymous No.5147761]

I think part of it may be that people confuse not liking it the most with hating it. I like 2-3 other Zelda titles more then I liked OoT, but I still think it's a phenomenal game that I've replayed regularly over the years.

[Anonymous No.5147781]

>>5147741
"Mate" you'd fucking better be able to do that in Ocarina. The game came out more than 10 fucking years later and has a dynamic highly-praised 3D game engine.
The problem with Ocarina is that it tends to make that dynamic more painfully obvious, like a slightly more actiony puzzle to solve than actual combat which is what it felt like in Z1.

In Ocarina, it's like "solve this combat puzzle by shooting the thing with the big eyeball with arrows, and then using your sword on the other thing." Or "wait for the enemy to pop up and shoot a rock at you, then deflect the rock back at it with your shield! So Fun!"

Z1 just dumps you into a room full of shield-eating motherfuckers, spell-flinging wizards, and sword-stealing bubbles and says "good luck, kid."

[Anonymous No.5147813]

>>5146686
Egoraptor told me the game sucks poopy ass farts so it bad
>But more seriously, Hyrule Field is a wasteland with basically nothing in it and no reason to stay in it longer than you have to
>Though the world does feel big, exploration is at a minimum. Small, hidden caves on a larger map worked for the original Zelda, but it leaves OoT empty
>Bosses could have been a bit more difficult, and Morpha needs to be reworked so that it's a proper fight instead of just waiting to longshot it or hitting it into a corner
That's about all I can think of. It's a fantastic game, even today.

[Anonymous No.5147858]

>>5147813
In the past everyone who didn't like Ocarina just ignored it. Nobody ever really disputed that it set a new standard for 3rd person gameplay.

Egoraptor made that hilarious video and Ocarina babies have been throwing trantrums about it ever since, providing fertile grounds for bait and trolling.

[Anonymous No.5147860]

>>5147858
I agree that it's hilarious, considering all of Armaldo's points boil down to "I didn't have fun playing it therefore it's bad, meanwhile ALttP is great even when I praise it for doing things I criticise OoT for doing"

[Anonymous No.5147879]

>>5147498
"Deh!"

[Anonymous No.5147958]

>>5147860
STILL seething

[Anonymous No.5148027]

>>5147508
I was playing Banjo-Kazooie that year.

[Anonymous No.5148028]

>>5147761
There's this strange mentality some people have where a game is either the best in the series or shit. There's no middle ground for them.

[Anonymous No.5148245]

There's no point to rupees or merchants in this game as you can find more rupees and items in the grass.

This kills a huge part of the exploration. What's the point when you can get infinite money from grass?

[Anonymous No.5148361]

>>5148245
#1: exploring is fun, and you find plenty more things besides money when you do
#2: it takes a long, boring grind to get enough money to buy anything substantial, why would you do that when you can explore?
#3: you also have to explore and do stuff to get larger wallets, otherwise you'll never have enough for some items no matter how much grinding you do

[Anonymous No.5148362]

>>5148245
>>5148361
The wallet system is what really bites Ocarina in the ass. The game is allegedly about exploring, but punishes you for exploring too much because anything you grab that goes over a cap is deleted.

[Anonymous No.5148372]

>>5148362
Why did they even add the wallet? None of the previous games had an upgradeable wallet, and they were better for it because they didn't needlessly restrict you until you do arbitrary sidequests.

[Anonymous No.5148373]

>>5148362
Why doesn't Link just stick the Purple Rupee inside of his hat?

[Anonymous No.5148391]

>>5148361
>#1: exploring is fun, and you find plenty more things besides money when you do
Not really, it's pretty much rupees, a rare heart piece once in a while, I think ice arrows that's about it unless I'm forgetting something. It was the most empty unrewarding world to explore ever in a Zelda game to that date.

[Anonymous No.5148428]

>>5146793
naw. In what way is OOT goofier/sillier than alttp?

[Anonymous No.5148449]

Look, you can argue that the game is good, it was revolutionary for its time, and it holds up. I can see the merits in those claims. However, to claim that the game is perfect and without flaws is downright retarded. Here, I'll give you a few examples:

>the game's framerate was poor. It should've at least ran at a stable 30 FPS, 20 makes it hard to go back to in our modern age. Hell, it was ugly even by yesterday's standards since many games on the PC ran at 60.
>the unskippable cutscenes were unforgivable. even games like Megaman Legends, which came out years prior, let you skip every single cutscene. I would argue it had a higher quality of dungeon exploration, beaten only by the amount you could explore since OOT had technically more content.
>the inability to remap buttons was stupid, especially since games like Super Metroid came years before and let you fully customize your controls
>useless junk items like the masks which were a waste of a subquest
>rupees were too abundant, and there was nothing to spend them on
>hyrule field was boring, since it was nothing more than filler to get you between places. the fact that they even give you songs to fast travel around hyrule field just says how little content it had.
>very little difficulty. even if you were new at the game, it just held your hand too much. You didn't lose progress even if you didn't save, and even if you avoided every upgrade and heart piece, only 1-2 enemies in the whole game did more than 1 heart of damage.

Don't sperg out on me, I'm not saying OOT is a bad game. But it does have its flaws, whether you look at it from the context of the past, or you compare it to modern games.

[Anonymous No.5148458]

>>5148391
Fairy fountains and especially great fairies go a long way towards rewarding exploration. It’s no different than lttp in that regard. What’s the best thing you get from exploring in lttp? Ice/fire rod swap? Double magic meter? Besides that it’s all rupees and the occasional heart piece. What does LA have? Heart pieces, rupees, hidden seashells and...?

[Anonymous No.5148475]

>>5148458
They really don't reward exploration because they just add onto the problem of the game being too easy. It actually hurts the game, since in the event you find something that makes the game easier, the rest of the game gets less fun. And if you avoid it, the game is punishing you for exploring by giving you items you don't want.

All of this could've been mitigated with the existence of a randomizer, hardmode, challenge mode, new game +, anything really. And Nintendo had 5 separate opportunities to do it when they re-released the game and made a remake on the 3DS. I think the worst part is that their attempts were shoddy, like the master quest which was even easier than the vanilla game, or the boss rush on the 3DS which did nothing to make the bosses harder.

[Anonymous No.5148487]

>>5148449
>ugly even by yesterday's standards since many games on the PC ran at 60
Nobody gave a shit, no one was comparing this to PC games at the time of release, lag during 3d games was something that came with the territory (lag is only super noticable after coming from a current gen game to it anyway)
>the unskippable cutscenes were unforgivable
a game having cutscenes like Ocarina had was a huge mark of quality, no one gave a shit about this when it released.
>the inability to remap buttons was stupid, especially since games like Super Metroid came years before and let you fully customize your controls
The only control criticism everyone near universally gave was the camera, a common issue for games of the era. Hell, the concept of the action button is still used in games today. 2D platformers allow for remapping because they have very simple controls. Several 3D gmaes don't have remppablee controls even today, and the basic controls of the game were fine as they were, at least according to reviewers and consumers of the time.
>useless junk items like the masks which were a waste of a subquest
granted
>rupees were too abundant, and there was nothing to spend them on
granted
>very little difficulty. even if you were new at the game, it just held your hand too much. You didn't lose progress even if you didn't save, and even if you avoided every upgrade and heart piece, only 1-2 enemies in the whole game did more than 1 heart of damage.
ehh, more a problem with later games )twilight Princess especially). Most of the difficulty came from the puzzles and not the combat, though

I mean, it DOES have flaws, but unless you were there, you can't even imagine how revolutionary this game was when it released. No one had seen anything like it before, especially not on console

[Anonymous No.5148503]

>>5148487
>Nobody gave a shit,
Not an argument. Whether you agree with it or not, it was still a noticeable flaw that has aged it horribly. If it wasn't so noticeable, than the 3DS version wouldn't have bothered to fix it by making it run at 30 FPS. So unless you're saying that Nintendo is wrong and that 20 is better than 30, this is an argument you can't win.

>a game having cutscenes like Ocarina had was a huge mark of quality,
Not all of us like cinematic experiences matey. The casual masses who look at movie games don't really have a say in this, since their tastes and preferences in quality are questionable.

>controls shouldn't be remappable because reviewers say so
t. kotaku drone

>unless you were there, you can't even imagine how revolutionary this game was when it released.
I WAS there, genius. I'm probably older than most people on this board. I have the version of OOT with the islamic symbol for ganon AND the chanting in the fire temple. You can't get much older than that.

Back to the point though. I acknowledge that it was revolutionary, but that doesn't mean the flaws don't exist. The single fact that Megaman Legends at least runs at a stable 30 FPS and has skippable cutscenes alone makes it a better game than OOT. And I really don't give a rat's ass what reviewers have to say.

[Anonymous No.5148520]

>>5146823
>I don't want owls
kek

[Anonymous No.5148536]

>>5148503
Yeah I don't consider this a particular issue with Ocarina, a lot of games don't let you remap controls and I hate it.

[Anonymous No.5148613]

>>5148487
>you can't even imagine how revolutionary this game was when it released.
Except only nintendrones think that. Outside of Z-targeting it's literally just ALttP in 3D. Next to a game like Metal Gear Solid there's really nothing remarkable about OoT.

[Anonymous No.5148620]

>>5148613
wtf are you saying? mgs is just mg2: solid snake in 3D

[Anonymous No.5148623]

>>5148613
For me, it was Everquest. The way that world felt alive, expansive, and dangerous like nothing I'd ever played before.

[Anonymous No.5148629]

20 frames per second.

[Anonymous No.5148659]

>>5148620
Yeah but it was the height of cinematic 3D, realism, interactivity, and mature storytelling in a AAA-title. Next to that OoT is nothing but a plain kids game that does pretty much everything as expected.

[Anonymous No.5148681]

>>5148659
as much as i loke oot, it is just a kids game i jave nostagia for. if i didnt play it as a kid i wouldnt care about it now. at least mgs has somewhat a a fun military b movie vibe i can get drunk and enjoy playing. the only time i want to play oot ls when im sick as a dog and feel like a child because the fever is boiling my brain.

[Anonymous No.5148896]

>>5148362
The wallet system is your incentive to find skultulas though.

[Anonymous No.5148954]

>>5148659
>mature storytelling
Imagine thinking that kojima's goofy ass writing is "mature"

[Anonymous No.5148964]

>>5147308
Unless I'm forgetting something, do you even need bombs inside Jabu-jabu's belly? Maybe they just wanted to prevent you from getting an extra bottle before death mountain, but I don't see how that could break dodongo's cave. Or maybe they just wanted to railroad the game for "muh storytelling experience"

[Anonymous No.5148973]

>>5148964
>Unless I'm forgetting something, do you even need bombs inside Jabu-jabu's belly?
You do in Master Quest, but not in the base game.

[Anonymous No.5148979]

Spyro the Dragon is superior in literally every way.

[Anonymous No.5148983]

>>5148964
Nothing in that area needs bombs aside from the roadblock. At least it's not really hard to bypass with how easy getting the Scale from fishing is.

[Anonymous No.5148987]

>>5148896
That's fair enough. There's the issue of stumbling on rupees you can't collect while TRYING to get the skulltulas, but you might get lucky and that never actually happens. I guess it checks out.

[Anonymous No.5148997]

>>5146686
I don’t like the music outside the forest temple.
I don’t like the graphics.
I don’t like the art style.
I don’t like how the game forces you to sit through cutscenes and text conversations for minutes on end.
I don’t like all the backtracking around you’re made to do.
I don’t like the barrenness of Hyrule field.
I don’t like story and feel it’s overly derivative from ALTTP, which cheapens the game for me.
I don’t like having to hunt for heart containers.
I don’t like the kiddie vibe the game gives off.
I don’t like the controller.
I don’t like the framerate the game runs at.

[Anonymous No.5149005]

>>5146686
You're posting on contrarian central.

Sub 20 FPS is pretty brutal though. I dind't know what framerate was when I was a kid, but the sluggishness definitely bothered me. I like almost everything else about it though.

[Anonymous No.5149008]

>>5146748
>They ramped up the goofy and silly as high as possible for 3D Zelda. Not saying it needs to be super serious, but they went overboard with it, combined with the fairy that tells you where to go and what to do,
>it feels like a game made for toddlers.
I disagree. OoT is unusually frightening.

[Anonymous No.5149021]

>OoT is kiddie
This is new. How the hell is OoT kiddie and not, say, LA or ALTTP?
Zelda 1 and 2 are colorless and void of characters, so I guess I understand those.

[Anonymous No.5149027]

>>5149021
It doesn’t have any bite to it at all. I suppose what separates it from ALTTP in this regard is the art style - it’s hard to take deformed, hideous models seriously over classy, tasteful sprites. Then again that game had a vastly different tone right from the start, between the mysterious prologue, oppening scene in the rain, and its almost Tolkienian tone.

[Anonymous No.5149051]

I actually hate the sprite for Link in ALttP. It makes me not want to play it. He looks like a faggot pudgy midget with pink hair who spends more time playing with his porky than ruthlessly killing monsters on his way to murder the bad guy.

[Anonymous No.5149094]

It's not so much that the rewards for exploration are terrible in this game, LttP also has plenty of boring rupee rewards, it's the journey itself that's unrewarding. 99% of the secrets in the game are either a hole in the ground (that looks exactly the same and has nothing to it other than run forward and open the treasure chest) or some item high up in an unreachable place in the town or up in a tree that you can get to when you have the right tool. LttP may give you rupees or hearts just like OoT, but the journey to get them is so much more fruitful, you're often strategically figuring out where to warp from one point to the next to manipulate the terrain to your advantage or you're in one of many different hidden caverns, some requiring the hookshot, some requiring block puzzles, etc. The rupee at the end is just a mere formality, there is a sense of accomplishment in exploring and overcoming these obstacles. OoT lacks this in a huge way, it's just a copy paste hole almost every time, it's uninspired and unrewarding.

[Anonymous No.5149105]

>>5148449
>However, to claim that the game is perfect and without flaws is downright retarded.
You sure cut down that strawman

[Anonymous No.5149107]

i love the damn game but i look like a npc when i say that

[Anonymous No.5149108]

>>5146823
>I don't want owls
Do you hate Link's Awakening?

[Anonymous No.5149112]

>>5149008
They went from stuff like horsehead and the lonely dead boy in the woods to huge goofy noses, goofy noises from every NPC, a fairy that tells you what to do, and tingle. Even the "scary" looking characters usually have a goofy element to them like an oversized stomach or something.

>>5149005
>contrarian general
Not one of you have been able to say what the game does well, there's argument back and forth about the game's flaws, that's fair, but not one person has been able to make a case for what is actually great about this game. Many ITT have gone over how the combat is brainless button mashing, the enemy AI is hideous, the world is empty and bland, etc. etc., you can disagree all you want, but not one person is able to articulate the "great" elements of this game that warrants all the praise it receives.

[Anonymous No.5149175]

>>5149094
>rewards
>it's [...] unrewarding
Maybe I'm crazy but I don't really understand why you guys feel you need to be rewarded for discovering secrets. Shouldn't it be about the discovery itself? Sure, getting something special is cool and all that but I feel after decades of gaming people have become too accustomed with the idea that you need to be rewarded in one way or another. Why does it always have to be a positive reward? Why not get something bad instead so there would be a risk if you're playing a game for the first time without any outside help? I know Zelda 1 did this but since then it's always been either no reward or having something (even if it's another batch of rupees).

[Anonymous No.5149236]

>>5149051
>than ruthlessly killing monsters on his way to murder the bad guy

at least the monsters he faced actually pose a threat

[Anonymous No.5149317]

>>5148983
>>5148973
>>5148964
The only thing that needs bombs in that area is the fairy fountain that gives you farore’s wind. Which is totally optional.

It really was a totally arbitrary roadblock that’s just there so you HAVE to do death mountain first. Maybe they were originally planning to use bombs more in that area, maybe it was ‘muh cinematic narrative’, I dunno what the reasoning was.

I consider it one of the worst things about the game though, up there with how lackluster combat is. Being able to do jabujabu before death mountain would help replayability so, so much. As it is the adult map is the only place you get freedom of progression and nonlinear design. And maybe that was the intent, but the tradeoff aint worth it, cause replaying the childhalf of the game sucks. It’s always the same, best you can do is skip some side content. It would be so much better with some more freedom, and the restriction is so arbitrary, and so few players would even go there before death mountain on a first playthrough.

[Anonymous No.5149320]

>>5149027
If I’m supposed to recognize the bottom image, I don’t.

[Anonymous No.5149335]

>>5149027
You're totally projecting here. OoT has a far more varied atmosphere on every level, and it's this variety and contrast that make it work.

[Anonymous No.5149348]

>>5149027
Gonna have to disagree hard. Nothing in lttp, including the dark world, touches bottom of the well or shadow temple.

>>5149094
I actually agree with all of this, if holes had contained minidungeons like lttp or botw finding overworld secrets would’ve felt way better.

>>5149112
>oot
>tingle
Have you played this game?

Regarding what it does well, besides the z-tragetting innovation I’d say it has an extremely strong and varied atmosphere (you might not always like the tone they set, but it’s always a strong tone), fun to navigate level designs for towns and such, and some of the best and most memorable dungeons in the series, or in videogames period. LA has some of the best puzzles and nonlinear dungeon design, MM takes it for complexity, but I think oot is the best all-rounder.

You could argue part of why I can remember the dungeons so well is replaying the game as a kid a lot, but I did the same with WW and lttp. Despite having way simpler dungeons, I’d be hardpressed to draw a ww dungeon map from memory alone (except maybe forsaken fortress cause you always revisit it, and tower of gods because it’s a tower). Lttp has a few neat gimmicks for dungeons like the ice puzzle dungeon, tower of hera height puzzles, and the forest overworld dungeons.

But when it comes to memorable layouts nothing comes close to oot. Almost every part of every dungeon sticks out and is quite memorable, and more than a decade later I can recall them better than I can other zelda dungeons. I’d bet most people would have an easier time drawing oot dungeons from memory than the other games, too.

Also on the subject of dungeons, every dungeon in lttp except hyrule castle having the same song is boring and brings down the atmosphere and game overall immensely. I know the first two were like that as well but still.

[Anonymous No.5149349]

I never liked OOT or the entire zelda franchise for that matter. The only one I've beaten was WW because I enjoyed the sailing and the overall visual design. Otherwise, zelda is pretty crap, the core of the game is ultra simplistic single button combat with extremely linear dungeons that rely on very simple puzzles.
Ever since my 64 owning friends talked about how great it was in school I've wondered what exactly it is about OOT that inspires such reactions since I just can't see what's so special about it.

[Anonymous No.5149352]

>>5149320
The eye of sauron from the lord of the rings.

[Anonymous No.5149357]

>>5149021
Zelda 2 actually does have characters.
>>5149027
For what it's worth, I think alttp and OoT are roughly the same in terms of kid-theming, if you only look at the aesthetics, character, monster, and item designs. The difference is that in alttp you don't notice it as much due to the way you interact with the content.

ALTTP starts you off infiltrating a castle full of armed guards, rescuing Zelda, and sneaking out with her. From there, NPC interactions are brief and most happen in the first 15-20 minutes you spend exploring Kakariko Village after leaving the sanctuary. After that, it's mostly just Saharsrahla or a random cave-dweller giving tips, a few quest NPCs who say very little like the dwarf-turned-frog, the flute boy, and the dude sleeping under the bridge, and the maidens. And they just blab at you after beating the boss of a dungeon, which is a decent time to give you something to read, pacing-wise. So the kiddie themes are there, but it's easy to overlook them since the game is exciting and the world is full of exciting challenges.

OoT starts off on a bright sunny day in Kokiri village greeted by Navi and Saria and you are summoned by the "Great Deku Tree." From there, NPC interactions are lengthy and elaborate, dominate the first few hours of gameplay. In addition to the general aesthetics and design, the dialog itself (to say nothing of the sound) heavily reinforces Link's status as a young child. There's very little combat or challenge to distract you, and even some dungeons wind up having substantial NPC interaction such as the princess in Jabu Jabu's belly.

So despite the fact that, aesthetically and for each individual component there's no real difference, the way you experience that content is much different in ALTTP vs OoT. So OoT "feels" much more of a kiddie game.

[Anonymous No.5149362]

>>5148458
LA also had the trade sequence, bomb, arrow, and magic powder upgrades

[Anonymous No.5149370]

OoT had great dungeons, but everything related to the overworld was complete dogshit, from the linearity of it to the cryptic shit; this is why OoT was a 3/5 game at best.

[Anonymous No.5149373]

>>5149362
All of which are in oot as well, but yeah.

[Anonymous No.5149407]

>>5149370
>cryptic
What was cryptic? The worst I remember was giving a fish to jabu and an npc basically tells you to do that.

[Anonymous No.5149416]

>>5149335
>you’re totally projecting here
Almost like it’s my subjective opinion or something.

[Anonymous No.5149425]

It's slow, the game doesn't trust your intelligence, and it riffs on LTTP so much that if it weren't for it defining 3D Zelda it wouldn't have left much of a mark. Fine if you like it, but it's not the best game ever.

[Anonymous No.5149431]

>>5149370
the dungeons are the only part that even matters why do you think master quest only changed dungeons and nothing else
>BOTW has no dungeons
is this true? i'm too hipster to buy the current gen stuff

[Anonymous No.5149437]

>>5146686
The beginning takes way too fucking long.

[Anonymous No.5149439]

>>5149431
>the dungeons are the only part that even matters
spoken like someone who played the game when they were a kid with tons of free time on saturday mornings to waste completing all the necessary overworld tasks.

[Anonymous No.5149554]

>>5149431
>the dungeons are the only part that even matters

Obviously to a lot of people that isn’t the case, which makes sense considering the precedents set by earlier games in the series.

[Anonymous No.5149598]

its literally pop garbage like half life and mgs. thief was the best 1998 game.

[Anonymous No.5149645]

>>5149598
why are thief fags so delusional?
I've started that shitty game a lot of times and everytime got bored after a couple of hours
literally waiting simulator, at least splinter cell has cool gadgets

[Anonymous No.5149898]

>>5149348
>Also on the subject of dungeons, every dungeon in lttp except hyrule castle having the same song is boring

It changes in the dark world and you only get to hear the light world version three times.

[Anonymous No.5149903]

>>5149348
>I’d bet most people would have an easier time drawing oot dungeons from memory than the other games, too.

The first game was screen by screen based much like their old Game Boy entries. Probably easier to draw their dungeons in grids from memory than those from Ocarina of Time.

[Anonymous No.5150000]

>>5148449
about unskippable cutscenes: it should prevent people from skipping them accidently and force ADHS kids to sit through them. They were probably happy about it later
About emptiness of Hyrule field:
I know it's hard to grasp today but in that time the very graphic and music of the field were breathtaking. I liked to go through the field and explore it
About the little difficulty: It's a game for children and by then people weren't used to 3D action games like nowadays
You're kinda right with the mask thing, but since it's only an additional quest I don't see why it should be a problem.
All in all you're exactly what OP is complaining about

[Anonymous No.5150005]

>>5148997
what a sad person you must be

[Anonymous No.5150023]

>>5150005
Why?

[Anonymous No.5150036]

>>5150005
because all of these things wouldn't ever have spoiled the game for me. I was 12 when the game came out and I played it then. So if you're in your 20s now and try to get something out of a 20 year old game and don't see the point I can get that. But if you played the game when it was new and let these things spoil it for you I think you must be a very sad person

[Anonymous No.5150038]

>>5150036
meant for
>>5150023

[Anonymous No.5150039]

>>5150023
I think he's sad that you don't love the game like he did in his childhood.

[Anonymous No.5150045]

>>5150036
>because all of these things wouldn't ever have spoiled the game for me
Another millennial can't fathom that people have different tastes and opinions about something.

[Anonymous No.5150051]

>>5150036
tl;dr
>how dare you not like what I liked as a kid!!!!

[Anonymous No.5150070]

>>5150045
my point is that no normal kid back 1997 would have dismissed the game because of these flaws

[Anonymous No.5150113]

>>5150070
Or, you know, people like different things in a game, and that legitimately turned him off from it.

[Anonymous No.5150118]

>>5150113
possible but not likely

[Anonymous No.5150315]

>>5149335
The fact that you didn't dare post images of the original speaks volumes.

[Anonymous No.5150575]

>>5146686
>>5150036
Are you guys even trying?

[Anonymous No.5150583]

>>5146686

[Anonymous No.5150590]

>>5150036
No that's not it at all. I'm in my 30s and played it when it was new. I thought it was a good game, I never thought it was one of the best games ever or anywhere close. It has nothing to do with how old you are or "expectations at the time", that matters minimal if at all. People like what they like, they have different preferences. Whatever inexplicable reason people just handwave everything about someone's opinion all away as saying "oh you just think that way because of the time it was released" it's like a virus.

[Anonymous No.5150786]

>>5149027
2D have visually aged liked wine while early 3D games have all visually aged poorly. There are exception such as the ones that mixed sprites and 3D models

[Anonymous No.5150798]

While we're on the subject of Zelda, can we discuss the remakes and contrast them with the originals, or do those not count as retro?

[Anonymous No.5150824]

>>5150575
not sure if copypasta or some sperg-lords C:/arguments/zelda.txt

[Anonymous No.5151043]

>>5146686
>This game was revolutionary in 1998, and it's still fun as fuck in 2018
there is nothing to discuss, critics and players already decided a remake of a 20 yo game is a solid 9/10, contrarians not need to apply

[Anonymous No.5151635]

>>5150798
Remakes are allowed to be talked about.

I think most people who frequent here have already decided what they think of them though. Remakes have better quality of life features while the original has a slightly stronger atmosphere because of some things that got tweeked in the remakes.