/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.5137236]

can we finally admit that this is the castlevania game for people who don't really like castlevania?

[Anonymous No.5137242]

Wouldn't that be SOTN?
Castlevania 4 is one of the most orthodox ones outsides of diagonal whipping (which Bloodlines and X68K also have, in their own way).

[Anonymous No.5137256]

>>5137242
Yeah, it's SOTN. I can't stand Castlevania gameplay but SOTN is awesome.

[Anonymous No.5137532]

>>5137236
I'd agree with you but i actually like the classic formula for castlevaina and CV4 is my favorite. just because something is easy doesn't mean it's not fun.

that said metroidvanias are fucking boring.

[Anonymous No.5137538]

I'll never understand the hateboner for SCIV people have on this board, it's far closer to the NES games than the Igavanias.

[Anonymous No.5137539]

>>5137236
No that's SOTN

[Anonymous No.5137542]

>>5137538
Really? This board goes full contrarian regularly and calls the most popular game in a series the worst

[Anonymous No.5137545]

>>5137538
because it's the easiest CV game and everyone on all of the vidya boards here are super insecure about wanting to be seen hardcore.

[Anonymous No.5137550]

>>5137545
>>5137545
>it's the easiest CV game
That's SotN though.

[Anonymous No.5137725]

heh

[Anonymous No.5137731]

>>5137725
what are castlevania threads like lads?

it's not a series I follow, sometimes I enjoy window shopping. are these threads full of fights and bickering (chan business as usual) or are they friendly? any special characters? whats the vibe like with these threads?

[Anonymous No.5137765]

Classicvania is fun, but I like Metroidvania like SotN better because you have more control. I think that's true for a lot of people.

They are way easier in comparison to classic, but I think there are good ways to add challenge beyond limiting your movement.

[Anonymous No.5137776]

>>5137765
>Classicvania is hard just because of limited movement
Not really. Super Castlevania IV is notably less stiff and less deliberate feeling than the NES games, and Rondo of Blood feels really smooth and good in general.
Even then games like Castlevania 1 and 3 are designed with their deliberate movement in mind. Both of those are actually incredibly tightly designed games. It really isn't just down to the movement making them challenging.

[Anonymous No.5137852]

Combat in IV is even easier than SotN. You can tank most bosses and kill them in seconds.

[Anonymous No.5137860]

>>5137242
SC4 is IMO the transition state between classicvania and metroidvania.

>>5137538
It's not bad, it's just nowhere near as good. For me it has a lot more style over substance. Replacing tight gameplay with DUDE MODE7 BACKGROUND LMAO and whip2win

[Anonymous No.5137876]

>>5137860
>Replacing tight gameplay with DUDE MODE7 BACKGROUND LMAO and whip2win
This is true. I also think some of the enemy designs are visually just laughable compared to something like Rondo. It isn't very interesting as a Castlevania game and doesn't nearly reach the heights the best games in the series have, but my god does it have some seriously great atmosphere. Also one of my favorite soundtracks for a horror themed game of the time. Just so ambient and different for a Castlevania. It's a good play through and a great SNES game in its own right, but it doesn't really live up to the best Castlevania games.

[Anonymous No.5137880]

>>5137852
You can tank every boss in the NES games if you have holy water to be fair

[Anonymous No.5138032]

>>5137731
It's a series that basically did a complete 180 in direction halfway into the franchise, so you got people on both sites being mad at the other side.

[Anonymous No.5138040]

>>5137860
>SC4 is IMO the transition state between classicvania and metroidvania.
This is a weird statement, why do you say that?
>Replacing tight gameplay with DUDE MODE7 BACKGROUND LMAO and whip2win
I think the hate on the mode 7 is kind of overblown at this point. It's just 2 small rooms. The overpowered whip is a better argument, but in turn, the holy water on SCIV is not a game-breaking thing anymore.
>>5137876
>I also think some of the enemy designs are visually just laughable compared to something like Rondo
Some of them maybe (the knights don't look particularly great, for example), but many enemies look great. The beheaded knights from the last level were used again in SOTN, same with Slogra and Gaibon. I think Rondo and IV are the only games that got enemy sprites reused in SOTN. Both look amazing IMO.

[Anonymous No.5138090]

>>5137538
>I'll never understand the hateboner for SCIV people have on this board
Played it for the first time a couple years back so here is my take. I'm ok with with whipping in all directions but whip waggalin' is dumb. Bosses were all cake. The fucking rotating room bull shit. But all in all its still great and if I had to pick a main reason why people seem to loathe 4 on /vr it's because of all the SCVI boyscout push back on here defending it as the best Castlevania despite some big flaws.
>it's far closer to the NES games than the Igavanias
Sure but it's not THE closest 16bit Castlevania to the NES titles. That would be Bloodlines.

[Anonymous No.5138098]

>>5138090
>That would be Bloodlines.
Sure, you can't change your trajectory mid-air, but you can still change the direction you're facing mid-air. Also jump while on stairs, diagonal-up whipping, blue orb.
Not trying to shit on Bloodlines or defend IV (I love both, but Rondo is better), but the reality is that every Castlevania changed things around after CV1. Let's not pretend IV is the only one that's different.

[Anonymous No.5138241]

>>5138098
It’s. Too. Easy.

[Anonymous No.5138245]

>>5138241
Which one? Rondo, Bloodlines and IV are all pretty easy when compared to the NES games.

[Anonymous No.5138265]

>>5137776
>Even then games like Castlevania 1 and 3 are designed with their deliberate movement in mind.
exactly, when you know what you're doing they don't feel clunky and are very satisfying to master (For the most part... they're still old and have some quirks and legit limitations, just not as many as is commonly claimed especially compared to later CV games).

[Anonymous No.5138291]

>>5137236
oh wow dude you were right all along, guess we don’t need these threads every 8 hours anymore

[Anonymous No.5138473]

>>5137538
Because AVGN said it was his favorite Castelvania, and this board is full on tsundere for him and his opinions.

[Anonymous No.5138479]

>>5138473
Yeah I remember one guy here, back when the whole australiakun autism was on full kick, replying to anyone who dared to say Castlevania IV isn't bad, with "Hi, James".
As if fucking James was the only person on the planet who liked Castlevania IV, one of the SNES games that are consecutively listed on top 10 lists since 1991.

[Anonymous No.5138483]

SCIV was a remake for showing off cool graphics and what SNES hardware could do. It was awesome at the time. Enemy designs are amazing and it still has the best sound design of any game ever. Shame it's so easy outside of the boss rush before Dracula

[Anonymous No.5138485]

>>5138483
But only very small sections of the game are about "showing off" hardware tricks. If it had maybe an entire level with a gimmick, but not even that.
Also stage 8 is the hardest part of the game.

[Anonymous No.5138502]

>>5138479
AVGN is the sore stretch mark on the asshole of the gaming community, we all hate it, it hurts to this day, and we don't want to admit it felt so good at the time so we pretend we weren't a bunch of fags for James at one point.

So we overcompensate and try to pretend that every one of his opinions are wrong,a dn that we're so much better. Because we can't admit our love.

[Anonymous No.5138539]

>>5138502
God can you project any fucking harder.

[Anonymous No.5138548]

>>5137542
and for good reason. people love to act like the most commonly accepted "goat" games have zero flaws. ftfy

[Anonymous No.5138554]

>>5137236
Is there any other game in history that plays a final boss battle song during the last boss and then half way into the fight goes into the main protagonists theme song? I always thought that was such a great touch that made the last boss seem epic that all or most games lacked.

[Anonymous No.5138570]

>>5138502
>projecting
>blogshit
>"we"
>"our"
You don't belong here.

[Anonymous No.5138607]

Is it because of the 8 directional whipping /vr/?

[Anonymous No.5138784]

>>5137538
Someone hasn't seen Egoraptor's video...

[Anonymous No.5138789]

>>5138784
>makes a video analyzing a game like he's some video game design expert
>never actually finished Castlevania IV because it was actually 2hard for him
lel

[Anonymous No.5138832]

>>5137538
It has nowhere near the tight gameplay of the other Classicvanias like Rondo, 3 and 1.

[Anonymous No.5138836]

dont suppose anyone has prepatched rondo of blood fan translation for the turbo? I can only find patches that I cant do much with right now. pc's in the shitter

[Anonymous No.5138843]

>>5138832
Rondo is vastly overrated, stop sucking its dick. it's even easier than IV (and no, I'm not talking Maria mode, that's a joke)

[Anonymous No.5138848]

>castlevania IV is easy!
You nerds don't understand that just because you've been playing retro games for decades and got good at them, that doesn't mean the games are easy.
This is how a normie plays:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEv5oXhxMEc
>mfw Mike Matei is thristy as fuck and tries to give her advice on the chat

[Anonymous No.5138852]

>>5138848
>>mfw Mike Matei is thristy as fuck and tries to give her advice on the chat
Sorry, not Mike Matei, Joe from Gamesack, lol.

[Anonymous No.5138857]

>>5138852
>you will never have a dick as big and meaty as Mikes

[Anonymous No.5138872]

>>5138848
Personally I don't think a game being easy stops it from being enjoyable either

[Anonymous No.5138886]

>>5137538
What's wrong with igavanias and what do they have to do with this game? It's a sub par classicvania, full stop.

>>5137860
>SC4 is IMO the transition state between classicvania and metroidvania.
Only in the way that it focuses on presentation and tones down the difficulty. Later down the line, OoE wanted to come as close as you can get to a real transition state and it was a godawful Frankenstein mess.

[Anonymous No.5138896]

>>5138848

>women
>videogames

Come on now, anon. This isn't a valid argument. Women can't do shit.

[Anonymous No.5138925]

>>5138886
>What's wrong with igavanias and what do they have to do with this game?
Not that anon, but OP asked if this Castlevania is the Castlevania for "people who don't like Castlevania", and I also think that'd be the igavanias.
>It's a sub par classicvania, full stop.
Nah that's just your opinion, I like it a lot, and it has always been one of the favorites in the CV fanbase. It being easier than the NES games isn't saying much because the other beloved classicvania game, Rondo, is also much easier than them.

[Anonymous No.5138964]

>>5137236
Why can't you fucking twibs just enjoy a game for what it is without comparing it to something else. This is a great game. The soundtrack, sound FX, graphics and game play.

[Anonymous No.5139005]

>>5138872
>Personally I don't think a game being easy stops it from being enjoyable either
It's a problem when you can just blaze through a game in less than an hour first try. Memories of the game doesn't even have time to form in your brain.

Compare to Castlevania 1 which is beatable in less than 30min, but probably takes you hours to clear the first time. You remember and respect every screen of that game.

[Anonymous No.5139024]

>>51390i agree. iv is the only castlevania ive played less than 3 times for a reason.

the 3d games not withstanding.

[Anonymous No.5139030]

>>5139005
True, but people exaggerate about Castlevania 4 being too easy. I think it's only really easy for the first 2 stages. I remember dying quite a few times on the 3rd stage the first time I played it, getting knocked back by the spitting mermen on the sumberged city or falling on the vertical part. Not to mention the later stages in the game.
Castlevania 4 is definitely easier than 1 and 3, but so are most of the later Castlevania games released after, it's not just 4. I believe people target 4 because it's one of the most popular, and there's like 0 hip cred for saying you like it, unlike Rondo (jap exclusive for over a decade) or more recently X68000 (jap exclusive for over a decade and very late PS1 release that few people played in its day)

[Anonymous No.5139058]

If IV was bad for being "too easy", that would make Haunted Castle and The Adventure masterpieces (instead of complete pieces of shit like they actually are).

[Anonymous No.5139074]

IV is so easy I can't even get through a couple levels before getting too bored to keep playing.

[Anonymous No.5139076]

>>5138848
>*This is how a woman plays

Fixed that for you.

[Anonymous No.5139078]

>>5139074
I assume you only like the hard CV games then? CV 1 (barely), III (Trevor only); Dracula X and X68K, right?

[Anonymous No.5139083]

>>5139078
at least those give me a use for save states

[Anonymous No.5139084]

>>5139083
>save states
what?

[Anonymous No.5139089]

any of you niggies up for some harmony of despair on ps3

[Anonymous No.5139090]

>>5139084
for the hard parts where I die a lot. The enemies in IV are way too easy since you can whip everywhere, no challenge at all and it feels unrewarding.

[Anonymous No.5139098]

>>5139083
>>5139090
>complain about a game being too easy
>use save states
Is this an elaborate troll or a genuine idiot?

[Anonymous No.5139101]

>>5139090
>using save states
Anyway, yeah for the most part fighting enemies isn't hard, however I think a lot of the difficulty from the game in later stages come more from the platforming elements rather than the combat. And there's some dick-placed enemies in certain areas, for example bats or skeletons that jump right at you, if you're not quick enough to whip them, they'll knock you back, making you fall on pits or spikes.
I also thought the floating eyeball on IV has the most difficult to discern pattern compared to other games they're in. Even with the diagonal whip these fuckers dodge like crazy. Nowadays I blast through the game with triple cross and they're not much of a problem, but I remember them trolling me a lot on the Cellar stage.

[Anonymous No.5139102]

>>5138032
glorious. who's right? which side do you fall on friend?

[Anonymous No.5139114]

>>5137242
Fuck if I know anything about castlevania but overall I'd also say that symphony of the night was the turning point. as far as i know the term "metroidvania" came from separating the more traditional castlevania games from others.

[Anonymous No.5139118]

>>5139114
Technically you could say the first to really depart from the classic formula were Vampire Killer on MSX and Simon's Quest, but SOTN was the one that really took off and kind of became the series' direction from that point onwards, despite being originally being developed as a spinoff title.

[Anonymous No.5139130]

>>5139098
Redoing the same section again and again because at the end of the section there's a hard boss that you keep failing, doesn't add to the difficulty but only on the tedium.

[Anonymous No.5139610]

>>5137236
This smacks my nostalgia boner like no other.
It's the sound. Better than anything from an nes or genesis. One of the earliest games that showed what 16 bit could do. I remember seeing images in nintendo power, but seeing and hearing it in real life blew my young little mind.

[Anonymous No.5139735]

>>5138843
>Rondo is vastly overrated, stop sucking its dick
You're vastly retarded, it's the best Classicvania, easy or not.

[Anonymous No.5139738]

>>5139090
The patternless disappearing blocks warrant a save state.

[Anonymous No.5139781]

>>5138886
>Only in the way that it focuses on presentation and tones down the difficulty.
This is the worst meme in CV threads. The only console CV game that's harder than 4 is 3.

[Anonymous No.5139785]

I suppose if it's they don't like classicvania.
I was one of those SOTN kiddos but going back SCIV is a great entry to classicvania.
Rondo is my favorite currently though.
3 I'm mixed on.

[Anonymous No.5139886]

I cant stand castlevania. They are all shit. Especially sotn is an overrated crap game.

[Anonymous No.5139921]

>>5139886

[Anonymous No.5140148]

>>5139781
>The only console CV game that's harder than 4 is 3.
And X.... And Bloodlines.... And Simons Quest....

[Anonymous No.5140223]

>>5138473
So which is it? Does everyone parrot his opinions or deliberately contradict them? You faggots can't make up your mind on how to blame youtubers for /vr/'s varying tastes

[Anonymous No.5140252]

>>5140148
Bloodlines isn't harder than IV, maybe about the same.
Simon's Quest is easy as fuck if you know what to do. I mean you can walk past Death without fighting him, lol.

[Anonymous No.5140282]

Dracula X you might have an argument with, but bloodlines lacks the tricky platforming that 4 has, even with its meme final stage.

And Simon's Quest isn't difficult, it's just confusing.

Platforming is legitimately what makes SC4 hard and I don't understand why it keeps getting dismissed as easy, especially when CV1 is a cakewalk compared to 4.

[Anonymous No.5140291]

>>5140282
As someone said before, it's probably because most people only play the first few stages of the game and then call it a day.
The only other CV games that areharder than IV other than III and Dracula XX are X68000 and fucking Haunted Castle.

[Anonymous No.5140294]

>>5140148
Simon's Quest is the easiest game of the series if you ignore its aggravating design.

[Anonymous No.5140324]

>>5140291
I've been suspecting this for a bit, but I don't like to accuse people. If you play the first 3 stages of SC4 and the first 3 stages of CV1, CV1 seems a lot more challenging. But SC4 is considerably longer and the game stops being nice in the second half.

To be honest, the only game in the series to break me is X68K. That game takes even LESS time to transition into its asshole phase. Haunted Castle is also up there, but I lack the patience to get good at that game. I can make it to the stage where bloody tears plays (what is that again, stage 3?) on one credit then everything goes to shit for me.

[Anonymous No.5140328]

>>5140291
Is this some kind of joke? SC IV is the easiest Classicvania by far.

[Anonymous No.5140329]

>>5137538
It's the easiest Classicvania (pre-SoTN) and the multi-directional whipping is hilariously unbalanced.

[Anonymous No.5140332]

>>5140328
>>5140329
If IV is the easiest, what about Rondo and Bloodlines? They sure aren't harder than it.

[Anonymous No.5140341]

>>5140328
The only part in Rondo that even approaches SC4 in difficulty is the boss rush stage. In my opinion, of course. And this isn't a dig at Rondo. I like 90% of the CV series, including Classicvania, Igavania, and even CV64.

[Anonymous No.5140343]

>>5140332
I'd call Rondo the second easiest but bloodlines is far and away more difficult than IV. >>5140341
Rondo is only easier if you play as Maria.

[Anonymous No.5140350]

>>5140343
>Rondo is only easier if you play as Maria.
It's really not. Rondo doesn't have too many tricky platforming spots (the trickiest I can think of is the collapsing bridge on the final stage) and the bosses aren't too difficult at all because they follow set patterns. You also have weapon crashes which can do quite a bit of damage and give you invincibility frames.

[Anonymous No.5140354]

>>5140343
Nah, even taking Maria out of the picture, Rondo is easier because of the level design. Very short, very simple, Richter has a lot of mobility including his item crash and IMO the item that makes the game super easy: the Bible.
I don't see how Bloodlines is harder than IV honestly. But it's not easier either. IMO it's Rondo>IV=Bloodlines as far as difficulty goes.

[Anonymous No.5140503]

>>5140332
>If IV is the easiest, what about Rondo and Bloodlines? They sure aren't harder than it.
The one time I played Bloodlines I died on the first stage. Hardest CV confirmed.

[Anonymous No.5140515]

>>5140503
>dying on the first stage
Did you just stood there not pressing the attack button?
Also IIRC, the first time I played Castlevania 4 I died in one of those spinning platforms on the upper part. Doesn't mean it's the hardest CV confirmed, I was just clueless.

[Anonymous No.5140582]

>>5137236
3 and 4 are my favorite, so do you think castlevania is just SOTN? or even worse, the gba ones? lmao

[Anonymous No.5140613]

>>5137860
>SC4 is IMO the transition state between classicvania and metroidvania.
Nonsensical opinion. Just because you don't like it as much doesn't mean it is remotely like the later metroidvanias.

[Anonymous No.5140619]

>>5138539
>>5138570
Case in point, Full tsundere.

[Anonymous No.5140642]

>>5140223
It’s simple. People used to parrot his opinions without knowing better or thinking for themselves, to point that now people are so against him shaping people’s perceptions of retro games that they go the opposite direction and disagree with everything he says to either be contrarian or out of spite.

This also for some reason includes popular opinions like SCIV, because people wouldn’t shut up about how good it is, so what starts out as criticism for it, now goes full “THIS GAME IS SHIT AND ENERYONE WHO LIKES IT ISNT A TRUE CASTLEVANIA FAN.” This extends even beyond avgn to Half Life or MGS

TL;DR /vr/ all a bunch of contrarian faggots, and SCIV is a fine game with some flaws.

[Anonymous No.5140671]

>>5138896
>>>/r9k/

[Anonymous No.5140673]

>>5140671
where is the lie though

[Anonymous No.5140716]

>>5140642
Pretty much this.
As for OP's question: That's obviously SOTN/igavanias, it's no secret that a lot of people that love SOTN can't get into the Classic series, but it has been said multiple times already.

[Anonymous No.5140905]

SC4 isn’t a total cakewalk. Some of the later stages are fairly hard and comparable to later stages of the other classucvanias. Overall it’s still the easiest classicvania though. Rondo is the only one I’d even think of calling easier and the last three stages put it above 4.

Chronicles on original mode is harder than anything but CV3. The Medusa, Death, and Werewolf stages are as difficult as anything but the last 2 stages of CV3.

[Anonymous No.5140913]

>>5140905
>Overall it’s still the easiest classicvania though.
You think 1 is harder than SCIV or Rondo?

[Anonymous No.5141031]

It's the first game where Clunklegaynia was somewhat playable.

[Anonymous No.5141080]

>>5141031
>first game where Clunklegaynia was somewhat playable

[Anonymous No.5141186]

>>5140913

Yea. Frankenstein’s level/Frankenstein and Death are pretty hard to me and you can’t walk through anything in CV1 the way you can CV4s opening few levels.

1 and Rondo are about the same difficulty to me. Rondo isn’t nearly as easy as some on here make it out to be, the boss rush, level 7, and Deaths level/Death are hard.

[Anonymous No.5141193]

>>5141031
imagine being so shit at vidya

[Anonymous No.5141204]

>>5141186
>Frankenstein’s level/Frankenstein and Death

Douse those heathens in holy water erry time and don't even feel bad about it.

[Anonymous No.5141209]

>>5141204
>mfw I die before Frankenstein and lose my holy water

[Anonymous No.5141251]

A no-death run of Castlevania 4 is brutal. It's in the same league as a no-death of CV3(US) and the Ninja Gaiden games, including the US version of NG3. A no-death of CV1 is significantly easier than all and feels as standard as beating Contra without dying.

[Anonymous No.5141658]

>>5141209

[Princess Sevenleaf !IT2uZpX.Ic No.5141752]

>>5138896
>>5139076
.....

:/

[Anonymous No.5141828]

>>5139030
>or more recently X68000 (jap exclusive for over a decade and very late PS1 release that few people played in its day)
I have to admit I've seen more and more people fellating that game lately, guess that explains why. Had Castlevania Chronicles as a kid and I never thought it was anything all that special, although that's apparently far from a perfect port.

[Anonymous No.5141831]

>>5141251
>having to sit through the auto scroller sections all the way from the beginning everytime you fail
Oh Dear God, why?

[Anonymous No.5141876]

>>5137236
It's a good game, fuck off nitpicking contrarian faggot.
>>5137242
This.

[Anonymous No.5141879]

>I want inferior control
Castlevania 4 haters are literally autistic.

[Anonymous No.5141884]

>>5141879

Control being "inferior" is debatable. CV4 gives you more shit to work with without actually accounting for that. That's why the game is easier.

[Anonymous No.5141898]

>>5141884
>debatable
go play castlevania 1 and tell me with a straight face it has better controls than SC4

[Anonymous No.5141902]

>>5141898
>Uh guys I swear I'm an expert on how game design works.

[Anonymous No.5141903]

>>5141902
>>5141898
Meant to reply to >>5141884

[Anonymous No.5141918]

>>5141898
>>5141902

Oh wow, I didn't think I'd actually have to break this down, yet again I overestimate /vr/.
Of course CV4 has objectively superior control in a vacuum. Whipping in all directions, the jumping feels a little better and Simon has more moves. Whether those make for a superior experience is debatable because Simon is OP and the level/enemy design of CV4 doesn't account for that. The game is easier than it should as a result. A similar analogue I could draw is MGS Twin Snakes, where you get MGS1 level design with MGS2's mechanics, and Snake is super OP as a result.
That's game design basics, you brainlets.

[Anonymous No.5141919]

>>5141918
You sound like one of those people who SMW is bad because of the cape.

[Anonymous No.5141929]

>>5141919

I love SMW, I think its too easy but I don't let that shit stop me from having a good time. Also, Mario World has much more going on than CV4. The cape allows you to skip levels altogether by flying and missing all the action, which isn't a good thing unless you're speedrunning or some shit. It also lets you have fun gliding and exploring extra shit.
Castlevanias are shorter games and their reputation precedes them, which is why making the game harder by accounting for your new mechanics would both provide a more satisfactory game, and extend its length.

[Anonymous No.5141993]

>>5141918
Anon is too good for this place.

CV4 could've been the start of something new, just like how MMX renewed the MM series. But it obviously wasn't good enough (should've gone full grappling whip).

[Anonymous No.5141997]

>>5141993

Agreed. I never implied CV4's controls shouldn't have been how they are, the game needed to be designed around them is all. MMX is a perfect example, I've played them all and MMX1 is the best Megaman game because the changes were consistent.

[Anonymous No.5142209]

>>5141997
The game is designed around the controls, it's just that the beginning of the game has some enemies placed in areas where you can kill them with diagonal/upward whips. Probably to teach players the new controls in a safe environment before the game starts punishing you for fucking up your whips later on when the enemy positions and platforming starts demanding timed precision.

[Anonymous No.5142223]

>>5141918
>yet again I overestimate /vr/.
Just out of curiosity, what's your home board?
>Simon is OP and the level/enemy design of CV4 doesn't account for that.
As others already pointed out, Simon being "OP" is balanced by not having an OP holy water (CV1) or OP specials/subweapons (Item crash and bible on Rondo, blue orb on Bloodlines). Yeah, the multi whip isn't consumable (not that the games don't throw hearts at you, anyway), but then comes the other point:
>level/enemy design of CV IV doesn't account for that
While there are instances where the whip makes certain parts trivial (like being able to whip upwards and take on enemies that can't attack you), ther are definitely many enemies that have the diagonal whip into account, lots of "surprise" attacks by bats and jumping skeletons that come to you at angles, obviously made so that you can whip them on diagonal before they hit you.
And again, this game wasn't the only one to deviate from the original CV1 formula, most other CV games did.
>should've gone full grappling whip
Nah, the bits of grappling it has are enough, probably the most memorable one is the part where you have to go across a large pit on the clock tower and there's a skeleton waiting for you on the other side. If they stuffed more grappling sections people would be complaining about it.
I mean, sure, you can argue IV is easier than CV1 or 3, but the same can be noted about most other Castlevanias bar a few exceptions.
I also used to think IV was the easiest one, but upon replaying the whole series again, I think that statement is overblown. IV is really not easier than Rondo of Blood, Bloodlines and honestly once you learn CV1, I think CV1 is also fairly easy, with the only real difficult part being Frankie and Death if you don't use Holy Water, and Dracula. But as far as actual level design, I think IV has harder levels than CV1.
I believe the reason it seems IV is easier is because it's a longer game, and starts very easy.

[Anonymous No.5142302]

>>5141993
>just like how MMX renewed the MM series
wasn't just a renewal, it was a necessary evolution. MM7 & 8 were devoid of difficulty because they couldn't pull off precsion platforming past 8-bit era (see attached). Instead the MMX series was about complex manouvering like quick succesions of walljump+airdash+chargeshots.

[Anonymous No.5142382]

>>5140613
Thats not what I'm saying. I'm saying it's a sort of oddball middleman where they were at the point where they were moving away from the classic formula, but still figuring out where to go with the series, which waa something ultimately settled upon by symphony. I'm not saying 4 is metroid-like.

[Anonymous No.5142390]

>>5142382
By that logic, every single Castlevania after the first one is a "transition".
The only ones that are proto-SOTN were Vampire Killer MSX and Simon's Quest since they focus on exploration/backtracking and in the case of SQ mild RPG/adventure elements.
Castlevania IV is a straightforward side-scroller action game, like CV1 and like every other considered Classicvania.

[Anonymous No.5142391]

>>5140642
Part of the reason for the AVGN backlash is that before when he was only ever in-character, everyone thought of the character as satirical, lampooning not just bad game design, but ALSO the sort of whiny shitters who would complain about stuff they're just plain bad at.

But then Rolfe started doing videos as himself, and everyone realized no, he was being 100% serious and is actually just a straight up shitter

[Anonymous No.5142393]

>>5142390
Movement controls

[Anonymous No.5142396]

>>5142391
>he was being 100% serious
But that's not true, I remember him saying that he actually likes Simon's Quest and he actually knows the game from beginning to end.
He panned the game on his AVGN video, but he actually likes it (despite acknowledging its shortcomings and desgin flaws/translation flaws)

[Anonymous No.5142401]

>>5142393
Every single CV game changed the controls in one way or another, other than Trevor in CVIII.

[Anonymous No.5142421]

>>5142223
>Nah, the bits of grappling it has are enough, probably the most memorable one is the part where you have to go across a large pit on the clock tower and there's a skeleton waiting for you on the other side. If they stuffed more grappling sections people would be complaining about it.

But that's beause the game treated the grappling parts as a shitty gimmick, when it should've attached to most ledges/walls/ceilings, letting you save yourself from falling into death pits by using skillful maneuvering, and just giving you options in general.

[Anonymous No.5142429]

>>5142421
>letting you save yourself from falling into death pits
Then people would complain that it makes the game even easier.
Nah, it's cool that the game has it in some parts like it does, but it didn't need more.
The same happens in Bloodlines. You are actually able to grapple in every ceiling, but how often did you actually use it? I only use it in that one part of the Tower of Pisa that's mandatory.

[Anonymous No.5142436]

>>5142421
>>5142429
>Nah, it's cool that the game has it in some parts like it does, but it didn't need more.
Agreed with this.
IMO the best implementation of the swinging was in the treasury level, where you can get to an upper part with nice items if you manage to time your jumps and swinging right. I always fuck it up though.

[Anonymous No.5142941]

>>5137532
I still don't agree with the CV4 being the easiest game thing. Whipping is certainly easier but the later stages have what I think is the most difficult platforming in the series. Also all of the subweapons that aren't the cross are the weakest they've ever been. Rondo and Akumajou Densetsu are still the easiest classicvanias for me, while any metroidvania after SOTN is just too fucking slow and boring for me. I love harmony of despair though

[Anonymous No.5142978]

>>5142391
>>5142396
Yes. He literally had a FAQ up on his site where he said these videos are just satire, and that he "might actually like the games he shits on". It's pretty clear he wrote that bit because he was getting annoyed that a game he liked was being shat on by kids that hadn't played it because of a video he himself made, and considering what he's said about Simon's Quest later, it's pretty clear he was thinking of that specific game.

[Anonymous No.5142986]

>>5137236
I was literally about to make this thread
>Level design isn't designed around the 8 direction whip
>Sub items useless
>Platforming is clunky because Simon is so fucking huge and heavy
>Strategy on every boss is just to just find a corner and spam the whip
>Early levels piss easy because you can chew through enemies
>Later levels are non stop instant death scenarios with the torture chamber, clocktower and floating platforms. Never from being worn down by enemies and running out of life.

I could go on but its easily the weakest of the 16 bit Castlevanias, even Dracula X. The game overall feels like they started making a proper castlevania, it was too hard, then added 8 way whipping and then didn't bother tweak fucking anything.

[Anonymous No.5142987]

>>5142978
Ironic as shit considering Simon's Quest deserves almost 100% of the ire it gets.There's not a lot in that game I feel is worth defending. The music and the attempted innovations to the series and...that's about it. It's still not a very action adventure game. Zelda II is an example of a similar game that hit stronger notes.

[Anonymous No.5142996]

>>5142986
>Later levels are non stop instant death scenarios
Non-stop is pushing it, but instant death scenarios aren't a new addition to SC4. III relished in having a bat or gargoyle knock you into a pit or bed of spikes.

[Anonymous No.5142997]

>>5142223

I have no specific board, but I stick to /vr/ for obvious reasons. Video games are dead.

[Anonymous No.5143001]

>>5138485
Nah Stage B with the stairs that keep falling is the biggest load of shit. I swear sometimes Simon just doesn't move once you get on them.

[Anonymous No.5143005]

>>5138964
>enjoy a game for what it is without comparing it to something else
By itself its really horribly designed. It doesn't account for Simon having 8 way whipping at all.

[Anonymous No.5143012]

>>5143005
You don't enjoy swinging to get from point A to point B? The rotating room killing stuff above and below you?

[Anonymous No.5143013]

>>5142996
You're not wrong, but at the very least with Castlevania 3 its an enemy hitting you into a pit.

In SCIV its Oh you didn't jump on the falling stairs right and they don't respawn so now you died. Or you didn't jump around the hard 90 degree angle in the clock tower correctly. The deaths are a result of weird janky traps then trying to combat enemies.

[Anonymous No.5143021]

>>5143012
Actually if you replay the game, look to see if you can reach any of the swinging points by only whipping horizontally. I just replayed it and I couldn't find a scenario where there wasn't a jumping platform to reach the loop straight across, even when whipping straight up would be way easier.

My guess is that they always intended to have to cool swinging in the game. The whole game feels like they put the 8 way whipping in at the last minute.

[Anonymous No.5143037]

>>5137538
It's just way too easy, and I say this as someone who sucks at classicvanias. It's obvious Konami just wanted a fun but easy title that showed off what the SNES was capable of in its early years without making a balanced challenging game. It's to Classicvanias what Harmony of Dissonance is to Metroidvanias.

[Anonymous No.5143039]

>>5142987
And you'll notice that the Zelda 2 AVGN video has James outright state the game isn't bad, something he clearly did because he didn't want that game to get the kind of "it's shit because muh avgn" treatment Simon's Quest did.
It still got that treatment because his fans are too retarded to actually watch his videos.

[Anonymous No.5143040]

>>5143037
>It's just way too easy, and I say this as someone who sucks at classicvanias.
I can see someone saying this if the game ended at stage 4, but that's not even the halfway mark. SC4 takes its gloves off about halfway in.

[Anonymous No.5143041]

>>5143039
>It still got that treatment because his fans are too retarded to actually watch his videos.
I mean, that's a theory, but Simon's Quest has never had a particularly good reputation.

[Anonymous No.5143043]

>>5137731
It's autism from one side complaining the traditional games are too archaic and hard and the other side complaining the newer games are too easy and not challenging. It's the Mac vs PC argument within a franchise.

Really much of the infighting stems from Classicvania fags to begin with, and I say that as someone who enjoys both types of gameplay.

[Anonymous No.5143047]

>>5143040
>SC4 takes its gloves off about halfway in.
Not really, you can still wail on every boss and just jump and whip right up until the torture chamber, and then the gold area is back to easy jumping and whipping.

[Anonymous No.5143050]

>>5143041
I meant Zelda 2. Dumb kids still screech about how "Zelda 2 is shit, AVGN did a video about it" even though said video has James specifically say the game is NOT shit.

[Anonymous No.5143063]

>>5142986
>Level design isn't designed around the 8 direction whip
But it's the Castlevania game with the most amount of enemies coming at you at angles.
>Sub items useless
Cross is pretty useful
>Platforming is clunky because Simon is so fucking huge and heavy
He's not that huge (that'd be Haunted Castle), Simon has the same size as Simon on X68000.
>Strategy on every boss is just to just find a corner and spam the whip
This is true for a lot of bosses in the Castlevania series. Also some of them, like the dancing spectres or the gold bat, require you to keep moving. (although the former you can cheese them, but only if you have triple cross - making your argument about sub-items useless invalid again)
>Early levels piss easy because you can chew through enemies
Yeah this is true, but then again the game is pretty long
>Later levels are non stop instant death scenarios with the torture chamber
As other anon pointed out, instant death isn't something exclusive to Castlevania IV, even CV1 has it.
You're entitled to your own opinions if you don't like the game, but most of your points aren't really correct objectively.

[Anonymous No.5143068]

>>5143047
Most bosses in CV games don't present much of a challenge. In 1 and 3, the name of the game is using holy water to stunlock 90% of them. The real meat of the difficulty comes in surviving the stages.

[Anonymous No.5143073]

>>5137236

[Anonymous No.5143138]

>>5143021
I will look, but I do remember swinging diagonally to get to the other side from a spot. I don't have anything hooked up at the moment but when I do I'll check, then if the thread is still alive I will post what I find.

[Anonymous No.5143141]

>>5143063
>But it's the Castlevania game with the most amount of enemies coming at you at angles.
No I mean its LITERALLY not designed around the 8 way whipping. The fact you can whip through platforms to kill enemies should tip you off to this.
>Cross is pretty useful
When? I just rebeat the game and the only time I remember using it was when I had to kill the axe knight across the swinging chains in the clock tower. Any other time the whip was way better and the cross was superfluous.
>He's not that huge, Simon has the same size as Simon on X68000.
Just because its bad in them doesn't mean that justifies it. Bad design is bad design.
>This is true for a lot of bosses in the Castlevania series. Also some of them, like the dancing spectres or the gold bat, require you to keep moving.
That's actually not true for the dancers, I crouched in a corner and THAT was the thing that got me to win. And the bat all you do is stand directly under it, hardly a tough strategy to figure out. In terms of the 16 bit ones outside of their respective first boss, it always comes down to being on the move. Even Casltevania 1 has way more bosses you have to move for.
>Yeah this is true, but then again the game is pretty long
That's not an excuse, make it at least interesting to play. I don't want filler levels that look nice, give me something where I dont mindlessly whip enemies until the boss.
>As other anon pointed out, instant death isn't something exclusive to Castlevania IV, even CV1 has it.
Castlevania 4 has by far the jankiest deaths in the series. Whether its trying to jump around 90 degree angles in the clocktower, falling through stairs when you're trying to jump onto them, instant death spikes grazing you or the fucking spinning blade with floating platform climb. Never just a bat knocks you into a pit I could have planned and hit with an axe.

>most of your points aren't really correct objectively
Get fucked, Anon, clearly you don't remember this game that well.

[Anonymous No.5143148]

>>5143138
Yeah like I said I just replayed this game and I made careful to check this. It seems any time you have to swing, the developers go out of their way to include a ledge to horizontally jump and grab a swing point. Which to me screams they didn't plan the level around whipping up or diagonally.

[Anonymous No.5143174]

>>5143141
>No I mean its LITERALLY not designed around the 8 way whipping.
But I mean it LITERALLY has the most amount of enemies that attack you at an angle.
>When?
I find it useful in many places, be it for dealing with flying enemies (especially the floating eye balls), or enemies that are across platforms. I remember specifically in the Catacomb stage, there's some bone pillars on the other side that are pretty annoying to deal with with just the whip.
>Just because its bad in them doesn't mean that justifies it. Bad design is bad design.
There isn't a set rule that says that if a game has bigger sprites it's "bad design". Even Haunted Castle could have been a good game, lots of good games with big ass sprites. Haunted Castle is bad because the level design is shoddy and cheap. IV and X68000 are good games. It's fine if you don't like them, but have in mind it's just your personal taste, not the truth.
>That's actually not true for the dancers, I crouched in a corner and THAT was the thing that got me to win.
I'll try that next time I play the game, but generally I just take them out in seconds with the triple cross.
>And the bat all you do is stand directly under it, hardly a tough strategy to figure out
Actually every few cycles the bat will come down at you, so you don't really have to always stand below. And then when it divides into 3 bats, you can't stand below them because they drop projectiles at you.
>That's not an excuse, make it at least interesting to play. I don't want filler levels that look nice, give me something where I dont mindlessly whip enemies until the boss.
I think starting from level 3 the game starts picking up in terms of platforming, the submerged city can fuck you up if you're not paying attention. It's definitely more than just whipping enemies.
>Get fucked, Anon
Jeez anon, relax.

[Anonymous No.5143204]

>>5143141
> Even Casltevania 1 has way more bosses you have to move for.
Literally only Dracula's first form, the rest can be stunlocked with Holy Water.

[Anonymous No.5143217]

At this point it seems Super Castlevania detractors are grasping at straws.
You can make nitpick criticism for every entry in the series, and potentially every game ever.
I feel like the argument about it being the easiest Castlevania has been debunked, and clearly Symphony of the Night is when the series made a hard turn from its original roots, both in terms of design and difficuly.

[Anonymous No.5143218]

>>5137538
It's a bunch of newfags who're sucking egoraptor's baby dick.

[Anonymous No.5143221]

>itt people pretend that CV was good before 3

[Anonymous No.5143224]

>>5143221
CV1 is the GOAT

[Anonymous No.5143226]

>>5143174
>But I mean it LITERALLY has the most amount of enemies that attack you at an angle.
You have nothing to prove that on, and what you're saying isn't a counter to my point. The 8 way whipping actually breaks the game if you look at how the swinging points and the enemies are placed.
>I find it useful in many places, be it for dealing with flying enemies, or enemies that are across platforms. I remember specifically in the Catacomb stage, there's some bone pillars on the other side that are pretty annoying to deal with with just the whip.
Like I said, items are superfluous. The bone pillars you're talking about, holding the whip and making the shield with it absolutely breaks the difficulty on those guys.
>There isn't a set rule that says that if a game has bigger sprites it's "bad design".
Its bad design when it actually hurts the level design, like trying to platform in the fucking clocktower and torture chamber.
>I'll try that next time I play the game, but generally I just take them out in seconds with the triple cross.
I'm amazed you had to resort to not only using sub items, but also getting level 3 cross. Just stand on the left below the platform and tank the hits as you kill them.
>Actually every few cycles the bat will come down at you, so you don't really have to always stand below. And then when it divides into 3 bats, you can't stand below them because they drop projectiles at you.
No I know the bat comes down, you barely have to move though to dodge, and then go right back to being under neath. And at the point of 3 bats you just stand to the side and whip diagonally.
>I think starting from level 3 the game starts picking up in terms of platforming, the submerged city can fuck you up if you're not paying attention.
That doesn't change the fact that fighting enemies is totally mindless. Adding more platforming is not a plus with how heavy and clunky Simon already is.
You're arguing from memory, I just beat this game and it's really overrated.

[Anonymous No.5143227]

>>5143221
>CV1 isn’t good
wew lad

[Anonymous No.5143229]

>>5143224
>>5143227

It isn't though. Claiming that CV1 is a good game is like claiming the Model T is a good car. It was revolutionary and changed things for the better, but in hindsight it's a pile of shit.

[Anonymous No.5143234]

>>5143229
Just because you're bad, doesn't mean its shit.

[Anonymous No.5143235]

>>5143234
What did he mean by this?

[Anonymous No.5143237]

>>5143234
>Y-you must b-b-be b-bad if you thi-think the game s-s-sucks!

I'm sure all your classic gaming buddies are super impressed with your defense of an old, shitty game.

[Anonymous No.5143245]

>>5143237
Jesus, that was the most /v/ response. Which makes sense because you're clearly also bad at games lol.

[Anonymous No.5143251]

>>5143226
>You have nothing to prove that on, and what you're saying isn't a counter to my point.
What do you mean? I could go on and count the amount of bats and skeletos that jump at you all throughout the game, but supposedly you played the game recently, you should know. For instance, at the beginning of the Treasury the very first enemies to appear are bats that fly at you from a diagonal angle. Same on the stairs on level 5 leading to the castle entrance. In most other CV games, the bats come flyign at you horizontally, doing patterns like the medusa heads.
>The bone pillars you're talking about, holding the whip and making the shield with it absolutely breaks the difficulty on those guys.
But they're too far away, you have to stand on the edge of the platform in order to hit them, and there's a insta-death spike trap coming down all the time, it's just much easier to deal with using the cross.
>Its bad design when it actually hurts the level design, like trying to platform in the fucking clocktower and torture chamber.
I don't have any problem platforming in those levels. As I said, it's fine if you personally don't like it, but don't pass it as objectively bad design. It's just your opinion. Many people don't even like Classicvania in general, and that's their opinion too, doesn't mean the games are bad.
>I'm amazed you had to resort to not only using sub items, but also getting level 3 cross.
Getting the rank 3 cross is natural for me, it's not that I had to "resort" to it.
>how heavy and clunky Simon already is.
Clunky? This is the kind of thing a person who doesn't like Classicvania would say.
>You're arguing from memory, I just beat this game and it's really overrated.
But you're the one who doesn't remember about the bats flying at you in diagonal.
>Overrated
Opinion.

[Anonymous No.5143268]

>>5143237
imagine being so buttmad that people like an old game that you don't

[Anonymous No.5143269]

>>5143245
List 5 reasons CV1 isn't bad.

[Anonymous No.5143272]

>Castlevania 1 is bad
Have we gone full circle now?
Is there ANY classicvania that people still like besides Loli of Blood because of its meme status?

[Anonymous No.5143310]

>>5143148
Ok. I see what ya mean. They were probably just trying to make improvements from the past games and this happens to be one of those changes. If this is the case then they had to plan levels out for it. I am just assuming of course. I never put that much thought into the game when I play it. I just have a blast with it because it's one of my favorite games to play.

[Anonymous No.5143315]

>>5143269
Music
Monsters
Game play
Difficulty
Originality

[Anonymous No.5143590]

>>5143315
All of which was only good in the context of early NES games. You don't even have to look past the 8-bit era to find games that left it in the dust. It's a clunky game that wouldn't be remembered as fondly if people couldn't break the game with the hilariously OP holy water.

[Anonymous No.5143792]

>>5137731
It’s like Stargate threads on /tv/

[Anonymous No.5143857]

>>5143141
>That's actually not true for the dancers, I crouched in a corner and THAT was the thing that got me to win.
You're bullshitting. The dancing ghosts go after you everywhere you go, including the corners. Only way to not get hit by them is keep moving.

[Anonymous No.5144361]

>>5143792
stargate-threads on /tv/ are prime examples of civility and culture of discussion.

[Anonymous No.5145119]

>>5138896
>>5139076
Purge this underage mindset from our board

[Anonymous No.5145127]

>>5145119
>underage

Literally every girlfriend I've ever had complained that I play vidya too much, and would only play party games and games they're nostalgic about from their childhood.

Yeah there are some gamer chicks, sure, but for the most part women don't get obsessed with games on the same level as men do. That's why most women speedrunners are actually trannies.

[Anonymous No.5145398]

>>5145127
>Literally every girlfriend I've ever had complained that I play vidya too much, and would only play party games and games they're nostalgic about from their childhood.
Absolutely based, redpilled and true

[Anonymous No.5146958]

>>5143043
my problem with metroidvanias isn't that they're too easy. It's that they're fucking boring. I like SOTN just because there are so many movement options that make the exploration a little more fun. You can backdash cancel, wing smash, and your divekick conserves momentum that you can use while you transform. In the handheld metroidvanias you're usually just fucking walking through the entire game while you unlock maybe a double jump or a slide or something.

In a classic platformer the slow mobility works to the game's benefit because you have to prevent yourself from getting overwhelmed by gimmicks and enemies in a more slow and methodical way. In a metroidvania it just makes getting from point A to point B take longer because you're just slogging through long empty hallways and vertical segments.

[Anonymous No.5146960]

>>5146958
same reason why simon's quest sucks, by the way

[Anonymous No.5146964]

>>5143590
>it's bad because it's clunky
>>>/v/

[Anonymous No.5146974]

>>5143043
>tfw 3Dvania fan
>tfw most people forget we even exist
>tfw some even go as far as to deny our existence outright

[Anonymous No.5146976]

>>5146974
I have no idea how 3Dvania fans exist. I played Lament and I haven't been so bored with a game since DMC2.

[Anonymous No.5147005]

>>5143245
>that was the most /v/ response
Ironing

[Anonymous No.5147228]

>>5146974
Do you get really drunk when you play them or something? I can't imagine enjoying them sober.

[Anonymous No.5147428]

>>5146976
They don't exist.

[Anonymous No.5147496]

>>5146958
I don't think I would have ever finished SotN just using normal movement. Shield dashing makes the game way more fun.

[Anonymous No.5147509]

>>5143229

I would rather play CV1 over CV4 any day. Far superior music and it doesn't have babby difficulty.

CV4 isn't a bad game by any means, but I have a hard time imagining too many veterans of the series giving it high praise. It's a solid entry point to the series but there isn't much there if you've already gotten good at the previous entries.

[Anonymous No.5147646]

>>5142302
>MM7 & 8 were devoid of difficulty because they couldn't pull off precsion platforming past 8-bit era (see attached).
So what are you actually trying to say? That the NES installments didn't use box-based collision and level geometry interaction detection? I think it's more that MM7 & 8 ditched most of the precision platforming when the devs decided to go with bright and colorful cartoony visuals with big sprites 'n' shit instead?

[Anonymous No.5147684]

>>5147646
The difference is that 8-bit MM used actual boxes for platforms. And you can easily tap yourself closer to the edge, pixel by pixel, and you know that as long as the last pixel of your foot is above the last pixel of the edge you're fine. In the >>5142302 screenshot that is the very last pixel you can stand on. Move on pixel more and you fall through the last ~7 pixels of the rock. And that's not even mentioning the embellished/floaty walking animation that makes it impossible to judge where your "back heel" is supposed to be.

[Anonymous No.5148063]

>>5147509
>CV4 isn't a bad game by any means, but I have a hard time imagining too many veterans of the series giving it high praise. It's a solid entry point to the series but there isn't much there if you've already gotten good at the previous entries.
The thing is, how many actually hard Castlevania games are there? And of those, which are worth replaying?
Also as anons already said, CV IV is one of the hardest to try a no-damage run to.
I've been playing CV since the 90s, and IV is still on my top 3.

[Anonymous No.5148201]

>>5147509
CV4 has some of the hardest platforming of the entire series.

[Anonymous No.5148861]

>>5146976
I liked Lament a lot the first time I played through it, but it hasn't been able to capture my interest in the same way since.

[Anonymous No.5149075]

>>5148201
only because of the shit control, not because of intended design.

[Anonymous No.5149127]

>>5149075
We've gone from SCIV controls too good to now it controls badly.

There is a reason I don't pay attention to what some of you think about video games.