/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.5119737]

IT'S TOO HARD. TOO. FUCKING. HARD.

[Anonymous No.5119740]

Play a different game then?

[Anonymous No.5121096]

>>5119737
Maybe video games just aren't the hobby for you?

[Anonymous No.5121246]

>>5119737
It's literally the easiest and most intuitive of all Impressions' city builders. If you want to complain about pointlessly-hard-due-to-shit-UI city buildersm there is always Pharaoh. Which would be a perfect game if not having the most retarded rules of them all. Or Caesar 3, where you need to build a fucking 2x6 gate to use it as a fucking stop for walkers.

[Anonymous No.5122463]

doesnt it have four or five difficulty settings you can change between at any time

>>5121246
how do i into pharaoh, dude? i fucking love emperor and to a lesser extent zeus, but pharaoh seems to have so many quality of life downgrades and fucked up rules that i never get more than half an hour into a mission.

[Anonymous No.5122471]

>>5119737
I built functioning cities as a retarded 12 year old.

[Anonymous No.5122483]

>>5121246
Wait, what? What was the hard part of Pharaoh? I remember that being much easier than Caesar III, probably mostly due to the addition of those gate-replacing intersections. Also, all those maps where you have gold mines and thus, effectively infinite money.

I don't remember any of the missions being hard (although I didn't play the ones in the Cleopatra expansion).

Semi-related: Did anyone make it through Zeus/Poseidon? I really disliked the fantasy / casualized approach they took and I bounced right off it. Is Emperor more like that, or Caesar/Pharaoh?

[Anonymous No.5122554]

>>5122483
emperor leans more towards caesar and pharaoh, imo. like you might take some of the QoL upgrades as casualization, but the goofy-ass cartoon atmosphere and emphasis on fighting big monsters or whatever of zeus isnt in emperor at all.

[Anonymous No.5122560]

>>5122483
Not that anon, but having to place so many buildings on three- or four-way intersections really fucks my housing blocks up. Also, coming from Emperor, where buildings could tap directly into the labor pool as long as you had unemployed, buildings spawning walkers who have to pass a certain number of houses before getting access to workers seems like a hassle [although I'm sure that just needs to be adapted to (?)]

[Anonymous No.5122623]

GIT
U
D

[Anonymous No.5122696]

>>5122554
The goofy-ass atmosphere was a primary letdown, so good to hear it isn't there. I might give it a go then. For casualization, I meant more the reduction of depth in so many things. Like, in Pharaoh it would simulate the age demographics of your town, and it felt like there was a lot more depth to each mechanic. I can't recall off the top of my head, but I felt like for everything in Pharaoh where you had 8 choices, there were 3 in Zeus.

>>5122560
Yeah, the main difficulty in the earlier games is trying to get your blocks to function correctly. On the flip side, the difficulty drops out almost entirely when you come up with a good design that can be almost cut/paste from one map to the next. I don't recall having to put too many things on three- or four-way intersections... ideally that's not the case at any point, unless it is a building that isn't generating service walkers (like a house).

The walkers aspect of employment isn't so bad - if they pass a house, they will grab employees from the mapwide labor pool. Just make sure that amongst your industry blocks you have a handful of tent-equivalent tiles scattered around. Don't forget to put disaster-proofing services on the block as well (like malaria prevention - if a disease breaks out, the whole industry block could go out of commission and spiral you into a loss).

[Anonymous No.5122710]

>>5119737
Even on very hard it was the easiest out of pharaoh and caesar 3. The real problem with the city builders is when you make a build to maximize walker distance it trivializes pretty much every mission, even on the hardest settings. I enjoyed them quite a bit but i wish there was forced variety when it came to city planning. Even on maps where there were assloads of mountains and water trying to stop you from doing so, you could still plant a maximized block, once your income exceeds your expenses via trade you just slap it on max speed and worship the deities/ancestors every so often.

[Anonymous No.5123082]

>>5122483
>Keeps all the retarded walker rules from Caesar 3
>Limits your access to water without giving aqueducts (I know this is realistic, but still affects the gameplay
>Retarded entertainment system that's bulky and combines all the worst elements about C3 walkers
>Can't do town blocks without outright abuse of AI
>8 out of 10 games still require to set up industrial slums, seriously affecting your ratings
>Entire difficulty boils down to size of your population, further amplified by all above
Pharaoh is a tedious, ungrateful game that would be piss-easy if it just used Zeus AI and under Emperor's ruleset, it would be baby's first city builder, to the point of mockingly easy.
In other words - the challenge comes from clunky design, not the game being hard or complex.

As for Cleopatra - it keeps the design of Pharaoh, but also adds actual difficulty, so right off the bat you have hardcore missions.

[Anonymous No.5123098]

>>5122483
Never played Poseidon, but Zeus has the issue of not having anything even remotely close to actual campaign. You just have a string of short mini-campaigns, 5-6 missions each, unconnected with anything. And not counting the new way of rising army and retarded way of having agriculture (the fertile soil that is used by everything, from olive trees to goats and sheeps), there isn't anything into it. The only real contribution Zeus had to the series was the return of C1 and 2 concept of labour force that isn't tied to walkers. So you simply have population working in your city, rather than the annoying system from Caesar 3 and Pharaoh, where buildings were sending out an employment walker (who the fuck thought that was a good idea?!)

As for Emperor, it's the peak performance of Impressions, combining all the good elements from all their previous games AND adding fantastic way of controlling your walkers and separating city blocks, making it comfy as fuck. Plus a really damn long campaign (but I'm still salty Qin campaign is so damn short). And it adds multiplayer. And still has active modding community. And it's pretty much the swan song of the company.
Did I mention I ended up on Sinology due to playing this as a teen?

[Anonymous No.5123521]

>>5122696
Emperor has 40 different factors calculated just into your farming efficiency, including if you already are using iron tools and how advanced said tools are. So let's say it takes into account a lot of things

[Anonymous No.5123526]

how do I get good at Caesar 3? are there any basic layout rules?

[Anonymous No.5123548]

>>5123526
Which part of the game you have problems with? Caesar 3 is pretty damn simple. Just remember to never, evel sell wine to people (so they won't turn into useless patricians en masse) and to trade extensively. Other than that, the game plays itself. The lack of road blocks is a pain in the ass in final 3 missions, thou, because the sheer scale forces you to improvise.

[Anonymous No.5123760]

Can someone please confirm the entire issue with Caesar 3 and Pharaoh about employment walkers looking for workforce was caused solely because people from Impressions decided to just make the whole thing "pretty" with walkers going around and only then realised what kind of mess it creates for such trivial task as hiring workers? I've read about it in one of Caesar threads, but can't find it even in on Moe's now.

[Anonymous No.5123817]

QUESTION

For those of you who like these kind of city builders, how would you improve on the concept or make a really great city builder?

[Anonymous No.5123847]

>>5123817
You don't.
Emperor mixed with Pharaoh is literally the peak of it. So Pharaoh's sprawling campaigns and monument construction AND MOST IMPORTANTLY simple trade (the trade from Zeus and inherited by Emperor was shit with those retarded depos), along with Emperor's simplicity of design (but not simplistic nor easy, which is what makes Emperor so good), difficulty of campaigns and general level of control over different shit you can extort and you are perfect.

[Anonymous No.5124117]

>>5123817
>>5123847
I've always felt that Pharaoh was the best one, in terms of presentation and missions. Emperor has some interesting stuff, but the economics side feels too weird. So does the religion part. The maps and objectives in Pharaoh seem to be more varied in a way, and take much more advantage of the map layouts and potential, in a traditional game-y sense. Also, I like how each city is independent on each mission, instead of carrying over. Once you've been playing for so long, it feels better to just start again. I'm also not a big fan of how cartoony Zeus is. Pharaoh is slightly cartoony as well, but it's not nearly as noticeable. Emperor and C3 are much more straight forward in the visuals, but they still have a fantastic appearance. I'd say that Pharaoh is probably one of my favorite games in general, and not just the series.

[Anonymous No.5124132]

>>5124117
>The maps and objectives in Pharaoh seem to be more varied in a way
As compared to what? Please don't tell me you are going to make this claim against Emperor, out of all things.

[Anonymous No.5125401]

>>5122554
Emperor is literally just Zeus without gods and with chinks.

[Anonymous No.5125425]

>>5119737
Steam release fucking when?
Same for Pharaoh, Caesar III, and Zeus.

[Anonymous No.5125447]

>>5125425
It's on GOG with all the other city builder series games.

[Anonymous No.5125465]

>>5125447
I know, I own it on there. My collector's autism wants it on steam too though.

[Anonymous No.5126259]

>>5125401
>He didn't play the game
Eat dick

[Anonymous No.5127738]

>>5125465
>likes drm
why

[Anonymous No.5129312]

check it out dude, every mission starts with one of these. click the down arrow in the lower left to make the whole game easier

[Anonymous No.5129556]

>>5129312
All the difficulty affects is starting cash, how many and fast requests you have, trading settings and HP of enemy soldiers, just saying...

[Anonymous No.5129601]

>>5119737
>The only Impressions game where you can have a standard city block with ease, adjustable to terrain, too
>Hard
Anon...

[Anonymous No.5129606]

>>5122696
>The walkers aspect of employment isn't so bad - if they pass a house, they will grab employees from the mapwide labor pool. Just make sure that amongst your industry blocks you have a handful of tent-equivalent tiles scattered aroun
And this is why I hate both Caesar 3 and Pharaoh - you MUST have slums. And that would be OK, if the slums actually were calculated properly (so you would need to have entire city district contributing to your industry). Instead, you just build a single mud hut in the middle of industrial district and the game draws from city-wide manpower. That's why Zeus dropping that shit was such vast improvement

[Anonymous No.5129725]

>>5122696
>simulate the age demographics of your town
That was half-baked piece of shit that really did nothing. You don't have normal demographics, you simply have aging population that then doesn't die, eventually leading to retarded situation where your entire pop is made out of useless 80+ citizens. If they were simply freeing space upon dying, it wouldn't be much of a problem, same with internal growth of population from your citizens.
Instead, you have retarded mechanics that does nothing in the big picture of things and at best will force you to demolish handful of homes once in a while to get workforce restored. I'm glad it was dropped and forgotten after Pharaoh.

[Anonymous No.5131003]

>>5127738
>steam
>drm
Look at this brainlet who doesn't know the difference between steamworks and the client, and laugh.

[Anonymous No.5131781]

>>5131003
>Uses steam
>Consider anyone else being the stupid one

[Anonymous No.5131823]

>>5131781
>thinks he's superior for not using steam
>when he doesn't even understand how it functions
>and is also a retarded wojakposter
Pathetic

[Anonymous No.5131830]

>>5131003
It's not me the one using steam here, bucko. Given there are original versions floating in the net, few different physical copies still in circulation and completely DRM free version from GOG, your choice of getting steam version - and solely for some retarded completionist goal - is nothing short of pure retardation.
Not to mention the steam version chokes on multiplayer (since it is ONLY compatible with other steam users and nobody else) and can't run custom maps.
And what difference does it really make, if it is still DRM in anything, but name?
So really, not sure who's the brainlet here.

[Anonymous No.5131831]

>>5131823
Not the anon you are replying to, but it's 2018 and you are pretending steam is some sort of not just good option, but superior one. Who are you kidding here? Yourself?

[Anonymous No.5131847]

>>5131003
>>5131823
If you already own the game, why do you want to buy it again? Seriously, explain this to me, steam or not. I've got an original box copy and it works perfectly fine on Win10, so I see literally no point of getting re-release. And you apparently also have a copy, so what the fuck?

[Anonymous No.5132086]

>>5131003
I'm aware there are games on steam which don't require the steam-client to run, but you're still supporting steam.
just add the GOG-game to your steam-list, problem solved

[Anonymous No.5133463]

Um... Isn't this game non-retro?

[Anonymous No.5133472]

>>5119737
>simulate emperor of China
>subjects keep collapsing into massacres
No, they nailed it.

[Anonymous No.5133505]

>>5133472
... what?
Is this some fresh political tourism meme that I should know about?

[Anonymous No.5133531]

>>5133505
>Is this some fresh political tourism meme that I should know about?
Yeah, it's called World History

[Anonymous No.5134031]

>>5133531
See, problem is: subjects in Emperor do not collapse into massacres. In fact, I'm not even sure you understand the meaning of word "massacre", considering you most likely are applying it to the fall of dynasties and rise of new ones.. That's called "unification via conquest" and "rebellion". Massacre would mean deliberate, sensless and utterly pointless mass murder of low-to-no resistance populi, devoid of any other goals than murder itself.

t. Sinologist

[Anonymous No.5134039]

>>5131831
>it's 2018
Irrelevant.
>and you are pretending steam is some sort of not just good option, but superior one.
I'm not.
>>5131830
>and solely for some retarded completionist goal - is nothing short of pure retardation.
Nope.
>Not to mention the steam version chokes on multiplayer (since it is ONLY compatible with other steam users and nobody else) and can't run custom maps.
You mean the version that doesn't exist? Why the fuck would you make up lies about how a steam release of Emperor runs in response to someone saying they wish it were on steam?
>And what difference does it really make, if it is still DRM in anything, but name?
It's not.
>>5131847
>If you already own the game, why do you want to buy it again?
I like the convenience of having all my games in one spot, make heavy use of the extra features steam offers, and the price would be trivial to me.
>>5133505
/his/ believes Chinese history can be summarised as "and then lord X of Y house got mad and massacred civilians" up to the modern era.

[Anonymous No.5134050]

>>5134039
Since I have no stake in this, I'm honestly confused why you need to explain yourself to so many people. But thanks for the note about /his/, that would explain it

[Anonymous No.5134065]

>>5134039
Wait.... was /his/ always retarded? Or just got stupid recently?

[Anonymous No.5134394]

>>5134065
/his/ has always had an issue with certain historical periods and cultures gaining a reputation and then being unable to shake it off regardless of how inaccurate it is.

In the case of China it's exacerbated because:
>There's very few historians or even "fans of history" on there who have studied China to any extent beyond maybe the century of humiliation or its role in WW2, so unlike when some retard mouths off about Rome and gets a dozen people shitting on them for what they got wrong anyone who shitposts about Chinese history is going to have a vastly smaller pool of people able to correct their mistakes/lies
>Most "fans of history" on it are only into War History and as such do not pay any heed to Chinese culture/art history or the broader socio-political trends and shifts it has experienced,
>The Romance of the Three Kingdoms and Journey to the West are pretty much the only shit widely known on the board to any detailed extent that don't have to do with colonialism or Nanking. whereas with many Western nations or the likes of Japan they've probably absorbed some of the basics through their schooling and pop culture so they have some understanding of the nation

So you have a bunch of non-historians whose only knowledge of China comes from what wikipedia battle summaries they see posted in "what's your favourite massacre/underdog victory/war" threads who regurgitate incorrect pop knowledge across the board and then never get corrected because there's fuck all actually well read anons to correct them. Then when some memes pop up like the "Decisive Tang victory" stuff it just adds to their preconceived perception of Chinese history as being excessively violent and devoid of much else besides war, conquest, etc.

Also being realistic 4chan is pretty racist as a whole and "Chinksects" are one of the favorite targets for it for a variety of reasons (some deserved, many more not). That only makes the perception issue worse.

[Anonymous No.5134403]

>>5134065
But to answer your question, yes, /his/ is on a downturn lately. /pol/ is back to regularly shitting up the board with pointless shitposts (after laying off after the election hype died down).

It's not so bad in most threads but dear lord any "meme thread" or one to do with WW2 is way worse than they were about a year ago. If not for the hatred the Romaboos and Anglos have for Krauts I do worry the board would be a total wreck.

[Anonymous No.5134451]

>>5134394
Never in my life been on /his/ (I'm pretty much only here for /tg/, /vr/ and movie thread on /wsg/), but this makes the shit rolling over /tg/ look like some sort of golden standard when compared.
Predominately because people out there are MOSTLY familiar with culture (at least as far as internet standards go), if still utterly lacking in historical knowledge, too. Besides, a whole lot of people being into wuxia there, too. And I was considering their idiocy to be peak performance. I'm not sure how to feel with knowledge they ain't that bad.

[Anonymous No.5135935]

>>5119737
Even if this would be somehow your first city-builder, all it takes is playing through Xia campaign, which is hands-off tutorial, covering al the basics. If you manage with that (especially since only the final two missions are any sort of challenge), then it will be enough to reach Qin campaign by itself and by that point, the game expects from you to learn on your own enough to manage the rest of the campaigns.
But seriously, it's the middle ground of difficulty for those games. Only Zeus and the non-Impressions games are easier. Pharaoh, due to obtuse design and truly crazy monument construction (building a pyramid with place with no resources, anyone?) is probably the hardest of the whole bunch

[Anonymous No.5137140]

I'm still salty you don't have conquest in Qin campaign, but just building. And the jump from fall of Han to Sui dynasty is pretty jarring.

[Anonymous No.5138113]

>>5137140
Wanna hear worse story? The "Muh Three Kingdoms" faggots made their own campaig (it's pretty good), but there aren't even any stand-alone Qin maps for conquest of China or prep for that. And the Zhou dynasty campaign is pretty lackluster by itself, since it's mostly early period and then sporadic missions from the tail end of it.
Also, Tang campaign is cut short, while Song campaign is utter trash. I feel absolutely horrible with the sole concept the worst dynasty that was there fucking staying in power and defeating Mongols by the end of it. There is alternative history and then there is letting Song stay in charge. That's like giving a monkey a watch and a hammer.

[Anonymous No.5139818]

>>5138113
>Muh Three Kingdoms" faggots made their own campaig (it's pretty good
It's not. Those are 4 trash missions that are boring as fuck and bring absolutely nothing to the table.

[Anonymous No.5141972]

>>5138113
Just binged overnight Han, Sui and Tang campaign. Man, what a disappointment.

[Anonymous No.5142001]

>>5141972
The game is best when played on random seed maps. And preferably multiplayer.

[Anonymous No.5144231]

>>5139818
What's boring about them?

[Anonymous No.5144282]

>>5144231
Requirements are trivial, maps are big and rich with resources and their design is also uninspired (so they don't even look interesting). It feels like playing Shang campaign and considering it's chronologically between (relatively) demanding Han campaign and pretty hard Sui-Tang campaign, it's a borefest of four insultingly easy missions.

[Anonymous No.5146230]

bump

[Anonymous No.5147987]

>>5119737
Not retro

[Anonymous No.5148972]

>>5123082
>>8 out of 10 games still require to set up industrial slums, seriously affecting your ratings
False. Your workers all go to a labor pool. The walker who hires people doesn't need to pass houses with enough residents, he just needs to pass houses with any residents at all to gain access to the whole labor pool. Try it; build a big housing block on one side of the map, and a shitload of industry on the other. Give the industry side one house. Once that house is inhabited, the industry will all get to work.

[Anonymous No.5149197]

>>5148972
>Hey anon, you don't need to build a slum!
>You only need to set up shit huts here, here, there and one up there too
>Enjoy having high crime rates and epidemy due to lack of services!
Anon, words can't describe how hard you are missing the point. It doesn't matter if you have a single hut or block of them.
Also, if you have literally one hut, then script will regularly choke on workforce access, sending the employment walker again, while working in the industrial/resource buildings will be done with inadequate workforce in the meantime. In other words - you are going to have issues anyway.