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/vr/ - Retro Games

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File: 181 KB, 540x429, Ps1 expansions.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5075394 No.5075394 [Reply] [Original]

What does /vr/ think of expansions?

It seems that in the 90's they were starting to become a concept tested by consoles even. On the ps1 there were expansions for GTA1 and MGS1 even and the n64 disk drive was originally thought to maybe have expansions to n64 games planned for it until it bombed.

>> No.5075403

>>5075394
>and the n64 disk drive was originally thought to maybe have expansions to n64 games planned for it until it bombed.

Nintendont yet again

>> No.5075404

>>5075394
I'm all for free content.

>> No.5075412

>>5075394
Are you referring to hardware expansions or game expansions? I love how old PC games used to have legitimate expansions instead of the modern trend of shitty piecemeal nickel-and-diming DLC jewry.

If you're referring to hardware expansions, then fuck that shit. Either release a new console or fuck off.

>> No.5075714

>>5075412
OP is referring to software expansions like GTA London, and Metal Gear Solid VR Missions.

Well, like PC had for a long time before 5th gen.

>> No.5075738

>>5075412
There's sense to RAM expansion like was in the N64 though. It's an easy way to lengthen the technological lifespan of the device, which is why you always have extra RAM slots in new laptops and PCs. Not having RAM expansion in consoles may be due to faulty consumer logic rather than anything else. I don't disagree with you, just making the point that RAM expansion is a valid idea. Of course, screw Sega and their frankenmonsters.

>> No.5075742

>>5075738
the expansion pack sucked and pretty much every game that used it just enabled high res modes that ran worse, showed off how ugly the games really were, or allowed you to play a handful of games. Big waste.

>> No.5075746

>>5075738
the expansion pack was bullshit. There were very few instances where it actually helped. In most cases where it was optional, all it did was fucking increase the resolution on games that already ran at a choppy framerate, thus making it even worse. Looking at you, Turok 2. And then you had bullshit like the expansion pack only being mandatory for DK64 because of some bug, and it was easier to just tell everyone they need to use the pack to prevent the crash rather than actually fixing the problem.

Which basically leaves us with two games: perfect dark and majora's mask. Alright, extra ram was needed to keep track of all the different NPCs in MM across the three days and blah blah blah. Still not worth it.

>> No.5075760

>>5075746
You're reminding me how garbage the n64 actually was, please stop before I permanently lose my nostalgia goggles.

>> No.5075771

>>5075760
IMO the issue with the n64 isn't so much that it outright sucks as it's just limited. I had a blast with it as a kid, but that was back when I only needed a handful of games to hold my interest. Mainly smash bros, mario 64, starfox, turok 2, and diddy kong racing. And it was perfectly good at the things it did. It's just that there wasn't much beyond that. So long as all you needed was platformers, racing games, 5th gen console shooters, and party games, it was great. Want stuff outside that scope like shmups, fighting games, RPGs, 2D platformers, strategy games, etc and there's a significant lack.

>> No.5075784 [DELETED] 

>>5075742
>>5075746
I agree that the N64 expansion pak can't be held up as a shining example of the success of an extra ram expansion. But this was more due to the fact that manufacturers wanted to make their games compatible with non-expansion slot as well. So it ended up only being utilized for high rez mode or something. But twice the RAM is twice the ram, as we all know that can make for a significantly more capable system.

>easier to just tell everyone they need to use the pack to prevent the crash rather than actually fixing the problem.

wtf are you talking about? That's not what happened at all and that makes no sense at all.

They told people they needed the expansion pak because they DID need the expansion pak. Maybe your point is "they could have fixed the bug and released it as it was", however we don't know that they could have fixed it perfectly without sacrificing anything. For a complicated system like the N64 having more RAM is always a good thing, it was obviously very difficult/almost impossible for them to fix it in a way that would fit. Something else might have been sacrificed. They clearly were using the expansion pak for some sort of extra graphical features right? Otherwise why have an expansion pak there at all.

Needing the expansion pak cost them hugely. They tried everything they could to try to make it work without the expansion pak but it failed to. It wasn't to "tell them" anything, it was so that you wouldn't need the expansion pak. They were so afraid of losing sales because of people without the expansion pak that they bundled it with the game which obviously cost them a lot.

>> No.5075785

>>5075742
>>5075746
I agree that the N64 expansion pak can't be held up as a shining example of the success of an extra ram expansion. But this was more due to the fact that manufacturers wanted to make their games compatible with non-expansion slot as well. So it ended up only being utilized for high rez mode or something. But twice the RAM is twice the ram, as we all know that can make for a significantly more capable system.

>easier to just tell everyone they need to use the pack to prevent the crash rather than actually fixing the problem.

That's not what happened. They told people they needed the expansion pak because they DID need the expansion pak. Maybe your point is "they could have fixed the bug and released it as it was", however we don't know that they could have fixed it perfectly without sacrificing anything. For a complicated system like the N64 having more RAM is always a good thing, it was obviously very difficult/almost impossible for them to fix it in a way that would fit. Something else might have been sacrificed. They clearly were using the expansion pak for some sort of extra graphical features right? Otherwise why have an expansion pak there at all.

Needing the expansion pak cost them hugely. They tried everything they could to try to make it work without the expansion pak but it failed to. It wasn't to "tell them" anything, it was so that you wouldn't need the expansion pak. They were so afraid of losing sales because of people without the expansion pak that they bundled it with the game which obviously cost them a lot.

>> No.5075789

>>5075746

It feels like N64 is pretty much Wasted Potential: The Console. So many cool ideas but they didn't catch on.

There's some homebrew uses from the expansion pak though.
For example this OoT hack to display more objects on screen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eicYqqgRL_c
And this fork of the neon64 emulator that can use the expansion pak for savestates: https://themanbehindcurtain.blogspot.com/2017/01/neon64-screenshot-functionality.html

There's probably more but these are the ones that I can think of now.

>> No.5075819

>>5075785
>They clearly were using the expansion pak for some sort of extra graphical features right? Otherwise why have an expansion pak there at all.
There's nothing to indicate anything about DK64's graphics or size necessitated the expansion pack. Rare's later games Conker and Tooie looked just as good, if not better than DK64, and not only didn't require the pack, but didn't use it at all. It was just because of a bug.

>> No.5075821

>>5075789
Speaking of homebrew, I wonder if there are hacks that make use of the ram expansion and the added storage of modern flash memory to allow games to be better or look better. I know there are lots of hacks of games like SM64, but AFAIK most of them are intended only for emulators and not to be run off an everdrive. I'd like to see hacks designed with everdrive in mind to do things like have a version of SM64 with better textures instead of having the same handful of low-res textures stretched across everything and added music instead of recycling the same 3 songs over and over.

>> No.5075826

>>5075819
>>5075785

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgtAXCaSlpk&feature=youtu.be&t=3m20s

>> No.5075829

>>5075742
>every game that used it just enabled high res modes that ran worse,

depends on the game...all Konami games ran way worse

Tony hawk pro skater 1, 2, 3 enabled hi-res by default, and performance stayed the same

>> No.5075830

>>5075394
>expansions?
Is it summer somewhere or are underage tards the new norm here?

>> No.5075849

>>5075829
why the fuck did N64 games run so poorly It had identical games to the PS1 with lower res assets, hardware purpose built for anti-aliasing and texture filtering, and it all runs at least two times faster than the PS1 does with twice as much RAM. Yet every game looks worse, runs worse.

>> No.5075869

>>5075826
Sure, he says it "only occurred in the 4meg version", ie. confirming that the mode you use with an expansion pak was different. They made a mode for the expansion pak and one without it and the one without it didn't work at all. You were implying that the expansion pak version was somehow the exact same.

>> No.5075885

>>5075869
It's more like I'm making a mod for Fallout New Vegas, and I have Dead Money selected as a master file. I never actually use any of the assets of data from the Dead Money DLC, but I forgot to tick that off when I started making the mod. Now I'm trying to finalize it and release it to the community, but since I accidentally have DM set as a master file, I can't "un-master" it and it just breaks the mod every time I try. So now my mod requires DM to run, even though it actually shouldn't. There's nothing actually about DM that really requires it, it's just a mistake from me fucking up the development process.

DK64 did not need the expansion pack. Not really, anyway. From what I understand, the bug was some sort of memory leak issue, and it was easier to delay the memory leak by forcing people to use the expansion pack. The problem is still there and even with the pack you'll eventually get a crash, but it takes longer for it to happen. And the game could've run without it, it just would've crashed in less time. And again, this is all because just requiring the pack was apparently easier than spending extra time fixing the error.

>> No.5075892

>>5075849
Nah man in general the same games looked significantly better on N64. The reason PS1 graphics were comparable at all is because devs had so much time to work on the system, they learned it inside and out. N64 was an enigma and still is.

>> No.5075906 [DELETED] 

>>5075885
You're free to invent your own scenario of what happened all you like but there the developers are right there telling you that there were two different versions and the only one.

I know there was an article going around somewhere that sounded pretty similar to what you're saying now and it made for some nice clickbaity supposed trivia - "they dun goofed!" However that's not what happened according to your own link the expansion pak version was better.

And yeah, sure as shit they came out with graphics equally as good as in CBFD and maybe others. However CBFD was a very late stage N64 game, we can assume they didn't just copy and paste the code. They optimized what they were doing a lot better. That doesn't mean they didn't make some use of the expansion pak at the time they were writing it.

>> No.5075908

>>5075885
You're free to invent your own scenario of what happened all you like but there the developers are right there telling you that there were two different versions and only one of them made it through. btw that is horse shit that it ever crashes, at least not in any version I have ever played, possibly you played it on an emulator if you're claiming that.

I know there was an article going around somewhere that sounded pretty similar to what you're saying now and it made for some nice clickbaity supposed trivia - "they dun goofed!" However that's not what happened according to your own link the expansion pak version was better.

And yeah, sure as shit they came out with graphics equally as good as DK64 in CBFD and maybe others. However CBFD was a very late stage N64 game, we can assume they didn't just copy and paste the code. They optimized what they were doing a lot better. That doesn't mean they didn't make some use of the expansion pak at the time they were writing it.

>> No.5075912

>>5075908
you're very thick. in one ear, out the other.

>> No.5075913

>>5075912
jfc, this is what I get for trying to explain to you something as simple as listening to your own link.

>> No.5075915

>>5075892
> looked significantly better on N64
lower resolution textures do not look better

>> No.5076030

>>5075789
>And this fork of the neon64 emulator that can use the expansion pak for savestates: https://themanbehindcurtain.blogspot.com/2017/01/neon64-screenshot-functionality.html

Well sheeeeeeeet. I never liked the juggling you have to do to save with the conventional way of saving (requiring a memory pak set aside for it specifically) and it always put me off NES on N64. I might make a lot of use of this, thanks anon!

>> No.5076045

>>5076030

The expansion pak is only used for temporary savestates. If you want permanent savestates I think you'll need the 64drive flashcart.

>> No.5076108

>>5076045
You need a flashcart to load Neon64 to begin with. It works fine with the Everdrive 64 so fingers crossed works with ED64 as well.

https://krikzz.com/forum/index.php?topic=5489.15

>> No.5076554

>>5075746
>rather than actually fixing the problem.
I thought it's not fixed with the expansion pak, just that triggering it takes much longer with it?

>> No.5076662

do ps1 analog sticks count as an expansion?

>> No.5076805

>>5076554
Again my PAL copy of DK64 and the NTSC version I play on my flashcart, have never randomly crashed for no reason. However I have heard this may be something that happens using emulators. Either your information is wrong or it's an astronomically rare thing to happen.

As the developers clearly state there was an expansion pak version and a non-expansion pak version, and they couldn't get the latter to work. There's nothing unclear about it.

>> No.5076838
File: 72 KB, 1083x609, Capture.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5076838

>>5075394
It's a shame the Tomb Raider expansions weren't officially adapted on consoles.
Some enterprising fuckers got the Unfinished Business levels running on PSX hardware with a few compromises years later, but Eidos could have made a fair amount by putting out an expansion disk or a Gold edition when the series was hot.

>> No.5076914
File: 346 KB, 1084x1058, 1489514984282.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5076914

>>5075892
>in general the same games looked significantly better on N64

Hell naw

>> No.5076929

I enjoy them as long as they provide enough content for the price. I bought/downloaded plenty of expansion packs for PC games in the 90's.

>> No.5076938

>>5075394
I owned a Nintendo super scope for a fucking long time until it died to my area getting flooded. The damn thing was cool as hell but heug. From time to time I still miss playing yoshi's safari.

>> No.5076943

>>5076938
Oh shit I am retarded, I thought we were talking about peripherals for a bit here.

>> No.5076947

>>5075394
Where the fuck is this image from.

>> No.5076970
File: 265 KB, 1613x1394, s923486953205652454_p221_i18_w1613.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5076970

>>5076947
It tells you in the background of the op image.

>> No.5076973

>>5076970
I've yet to ever need to put my MGS1 disk in while playing VR missions. That image also looks to be related to MGS2 in some way, rather than the PS1 games.

>> No.5076976

>>5076973
>>5076970

Nevermind, I am an idiot. The PAL version of VR Missions actually needs to MGS1 disks. That's fucking strange.

>> No.5076980

>>5076914
Bro I don't know why you're flashing this image around as some supposed kind of illustration of where the PS1 looks better, the N64 version here looks 100x better. The guy on the left looks like a cross-eyed ugly looking freak. You can clearly see pixels everywhere. The N64 is much more smoothed over and looks a lot more natural, look at the PS1 RPD letters vs the N64 one for fuck sake. Look at the PS1 door handle. The thighs and lower legs fine, they look better on the PS1. Just overall, it's an example of the blockiness of the PS1. Some objects being a little blurred is natural for humans, that's how vision works, it doesn't work like minecraft. If this is what you're holding up as your best specfically selected example of the PS1 beating the N64 then LOL.

>> No.5076991

>>5076980

This is your brain on Nintendo. Faggots like you really live in their own little world.

>> No.5077424

>>5076991
You sound like an assblasted segafag still pissed they lost the console war against Nintendo and will grasp at anything that is competing against it.

>> No.5077427

>>5075789
>doesn't fix the sub 20 framerate
yuck