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/vr/ - Retro Games


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4995205 No.4995205 [Reply] [Original]

>Everyone loses their shit about how great Goldeneye was the epitome of console shooters
>When this exists
Never understood it tbf (to be frank)

>> No.4995206

>>4995205
turok is not bad, but goldeneye is a far better game.

>> No.4995214

>>4995206
/thread

>> No.4995217

>>4995206
I disagree.

>> No.4995250

>>4995205
>>4995206
Turok 2 is better than both. It is also better than Perfect Dark.

>> No.4995252

Turok was my very first N64 game. I still like Goldeneye better.

>> No.4995268
File: 18 KB, 271x139, 1534209615400.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4995268

>>4995250
>better than Perfect Dark.
No

>> No.4995274

>>4995205
Frank? Who's Frank?

>> No.4995285

>>4995274
Some guy who likes shooters.

>> No.4995289

>>4995274
OP, obviously. He says it himself.

>> No.4995301

>>4995217
that's fantastic. would you mind explaining why?

>> No.4995312

>>4995301
I feel like the speed and sense of movement in turok puts it above goldeneye's complexity, while Goldeneye beats it in terms of level and mission design. Turok makes you feel like a prowling beast hunting fuckers in the jungle, with no restraints. Goldeneye runs so bad at times it's hard to replay anymore. I sustain that it has some of the best level design of its time, the multiplayer is excellent and it did many things first, but Turok simply feels better to control.

>> No.4995328

i member getting turok as a kid and not being able to save since i didn't have a memory pak, I'd say it was better than the pc fps's of its time, the enemies had that nice cgi look without trying to push the console too far like later games did, its a bit of a maze though

>> No.4995395

>>4995205
how were you supposed to do that super jump in this game? I was never able to pass that one part of the training because of it and I am pretty sure I missed a lot of stuff from not being able to do it.

>> No.4995408

People really liked Goldeneye because of the multiplayer. If Turok had Rage Wars style multiplayer maybe it would be remembered on the same level as Goldeneye.

>> No.4995410

>>4995268
Perfect Dark ran like shit. It's unplayable.

>> No.4995423

Turok 2 is a great game, great atmosphere, great graphics (style/environment), great music. It's not cool to be lost in huge levels all the time and not having a clue where to go though.

>> No.4995435
File: 4 KB, 205x250, 1524635089303.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4995435

>>4995410
>It's unplayable

>> No.4995440

>>4995435
Not that anon, if you play splitscreen it just grinds to a halt, otherwise it's manageable. The xboner version is a godsend.

>> No.4995448

>>4995205
Its draw distance is absolute garbage.

The only good thing about Turok 1 was the cheats. And to be fair, it had some great cheats.

>> No.4995456

>>4995312
great answer, thanks. totally get your points.

>> No.4995460

>>4995410
pd looked great back then. but our dainty little eyes just can't handle 240p 10 fps games anymore, can they.

>> No.4995464

>>4995395
I think you're supposed to strafe jump, if I'm thinking of the part in the Training Mode that you're thinking

>> No.4995470

>>4995205
Has there ever been an Indian character who isn't a stereotype?

>> No.4995475

>>4995250

It's a cool game but the framerate is fucking horrible

>> No.4995482
File: 123 KB, 1400x700, N64-Turok-Dinosaur-Hunter-Perfect-Dark-Conkers-Bad-Fur-Day.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4995482

>>4995440
We used to jam 2-4 multiplayer all night, only dropped frames when someone picked up the devastator.

All these games are gr8, no h8, pic rel8

>> No.4995485

>>4995470

>Has there ever been an Indian character who isn't a stereotype?

The fact you are saying Indian proves they are basically always going to be a stereotype. Sad, but true. Turok was also a very old comic.

With all that being said, at least he looks bad ass.

>> No.4995492

>>4995485
>The fact you are saying Indian proves they are basically always going to be a stereotype
sorry, what I meant to say was prairie nigger.

>> No.4995496

>>4995492

I know you are trying to be funny, but you must admit it is a bit absurd. It's like calling Irish people Polish, then having it stick for 100's of years.

>> No.4995497

>>4995448
Remaster fixes draw distance, but it actually adds to the spooky feel of the game to have the fog imo

>> No.4995510

>>4995496
First of all I wouldn't call a native an "indian." 2th I don't understand the Irish/Polish thing. Third, you're a faggot.

>> No.4995513

>>4995475
Just play the PC version then.

>> No.4995515

>>4995510
i think he's referring to the fact that both ireland and poland are catholic countries

>> No.4995517

>>4995510

How dumb are you? They called them Indian's, because explorers thought they landed in INDIA! Holy shit. The name stuck, even though they were half way across the world from India. This isn't some crazy unknown fact.

>> No.4995520

>>4995515
Sorry /VR/
I'll save my shit posting for every other thread.

>> No.4995521

>>4995205
This game is the reason why I use inverted aim analog controls to this day. Probably Star Fox 64, too. Iirc both games had inverted by default and I think you couldn't change that, but I might be wrong.

My pleb normie friends always scratch their heads at the inverted deal.

>> No.4995542

>>4995460
>but our dainty little eyes just can't handle 240p 10 fps games anymore, can they.
Sometimes I'm amazed how much fun I had with Pacific Strike, despite it running at 3-5 FPS at times.
I really don't have the same tolerance for bad performance nowadays. Though I can actually afford a decent computer nowadays so it's not like I have to put up with it often.

>> No.4995559

>>4995205
dude, two completely different games and golden eye got much more variety and better death animations and detail. The death animation in turok are static. In golden eye you can shoot enemies the gun out of the hand and into different body parts. In golden eye you have to make photos, and use other gatches to mix up the gameplay. You can play stealthy or deadly. In turok you can't.

The multiplayer is much more varied because the weapons in golden eye are much more varied (mines, different characters, level design and I think more maps).

>> No.4995741

>>4995559
>two completely different games
Anon, I...

>> No.4996938

Name four fps games on another console that can match Turok 2, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, and Doom 64
>protip: you can't

>> No.4996968

>>4995410
You folks do realise that both Perfect Dark and Turok 2 have 60fps remasters available on Xbox One, right?

>> No.4996975

>>4996968
Turok 1 and 2 have remasters on PC as well, they're extremely good. But we're discussing their original versions here, your point is irrelevant.

>> No.4997018

Why does no one mention turok 3? It’s fantastic

>> No.4997046
File: 68 KB, 220x148, 220px-Turok_3_-_Shadow_of_Oblivion_Coverart[1].png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4997046

>>4997018
What the fuck... has this always existed?

>> No.4997047

>>4997018
Because Rage Wars was better.

>> No.4997048

I haven't played Turok 1/2 since they were released during my childhood. Did anyone else have trouble advancing in those games? I remember I really struggled navigating the levels. I did fine in other contemporary FPS of that era though. Something about the levels just really through me for a loop.

>> No.4997051

>>4997048
I know that Turok 1 at least had a real bad problem with putting fog everywhere to reduce draw distances. Made navigation disorienting as hell because the maps were somewhat large and open but you couldn't see more than 2 feet in front of you at any time.

>> No.4997059

>>4995408
This is the answer.

>> No.4997143
File: 361 KB, 512x512, 1511488954870.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4997143

>>4997048
Someone else mentioned this above. I like everything about Turok except getting lost and running around an empty map after you kill all the enemies. The combat is good, the maps are too confusing for my brainlet self.

>> No.4997153

>>4997048
They're not super difficult, but they can FEEL really overwhelming. Also, if you didn't know there's an automap, you're pretty fucked.

>> No.4997201

Golden Eye was pretty straight forward with the flow of the levels. And there was a lot of extra stuff you could find with varying difficulties that added more objectives. So it was easy to get into, and added replay. And then the multiplayer customization is pretty in depth.

Turok was more of an exploration game at heart. You just had to find keys in these large levels to unlock the next level with secrets to find along the way. Ended up having a lot of platforming because of that.

>> No.4997243

>>4997051
Swimming can cause serious issues if your tv isn't super bright, as well.

Everything is just one big brown polygon

>> No.4997305

Anyone ever get disoriented/motion sickness from playing the N64 versions of Turok 1&2? I couldn't play them for more than 30 minutes before feeling like waiting to do a technicolor yawn, yet with the PC ports (both the original releases and Kaisers EX versions) I can just play them for hours and feel just fine.

>> No.4997417

>>4995206
Mortal kombat on sega genesis is the best videogame ever made.

>> No.4997431

>>4997417
It's not even the best fighter on the console.

>> No.4997435

Goldeneye was more like a traditional old-school shooter where you're dropped in a level and you have to get to the end, except sometimes with extra objectives that forced you to do a little exploration or put yourself in danger. You beat a level, you unlock the next.

Turok is its own beast altogether; it's basically Quake doing Mario 64. Huge maps with tons of platforming, jumping puzzles, and exploration to find "keys" that basically functioned as stars to unlock the next levels. It even had lives that you'd get more of when you collect 100 doritos. It's an action-adventure game in a first person perspective.

I'd say they're for two different audiences, and Goldeneye is just a lot easier to interpret and more immediately exciting for most players. And, like the thread said, multiplayer is probably at least 2/3 of what people remember when they think of Goldeneye. After all, Timesplitters 1's single player was basically just a series of speedruns so you can unlock more stuff for the multiplayer.

>> No.4997467

>>4995205
It's probably because Goldeneye is a much more accessible arcadey "normalfag" shooter. The Turok games are more similar to classic old school shooters which turns off most people.

>> No.4997472

>>4995205
Turok was good but confusing for child me tbf (to be frank)

>> No.4997510
File: 3.70 MB, 4500x6673, T2_Level_IV_-_The_Lair_of_the_Blind_Ones.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4997510

>>4997467
I think you've got a fucked up memory of old school shooters. A typical level in stock Wolfenstein, Doom, Quake, or the Build games will take you maybe 10-15 minutes at the absolute most if you're playing normally. A typical level in Turok is like 20 minutes minimum. Turok's got 8 levels and How Long To Beat puts it at about 8 hours to finish, so that's on average an hour a level. Doom has 32 levels (36 with secrets), and HLTB puts it at about 5-6 hours, with similar ratios for Doom and Quake.

>> No.4997523

>>4997510
>with similar ratios for Doom and Quake.
meant Duke and Quake.

>> No.4997529

>>4997510
Eh, I see where you're going with this but my original point still stands. Your average Joe isn't going to sit down and play through Turok 2. I just don't see it. Also, Hive of the Mantids is harder

>> No.4997550

>>4995205
Whosever idea it was to put platforming bits in it should be shot.

>> No.4997553

>>4996938
why did you skip PC? UT and QuakeIII arena not mention worthy? Or do you think the comparison is unfair?

>> No.4997556

>>4997417
I disagree. It's a very good game, but I think Donkey Kong is better.

>> No.4997562

>>4997556
chrono trigger mates

>> No.4997565

>>4997556
Donkey Kong sucks!

>> No.4997583

>>4995205
You couldn't even see the tip of your rifle, everything was so cloudy. It was unplayable, you couldn't trade this game with anybody. Goldeneye was the game you never lend, you could let a friend borrow a controller but not this game. It was THE system seller.

>> No.4997589

>>4997565

YOU SUCK

>> No.4997604
File: 37 KB, 600x300, 196c6b75fff4f8265a1f2284be837834514debc500e7d62f984db57a9c67bdd8.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4997604

>>4997583
>Trading games with random plebs

>> No.4997628

>>4997046

Mandela Effect.

>> No.4997717

>>4997510
This level has been simplified on the remaster, hasn't it? The original was just too confusing and convoluted.

>> No.4997718

>>4997583
the fog/cloud is to cover up the pitiful drawing distance of the game's engine. it's an overrated pile of shit.

>> No.4997721

>>4996938
Yes, the N64 dominated when it came to FPS, everyone knows this. Turok just feels like a jab at Sony, rubbing on their face everything that the Playstation couldn't handle.

But if you're really interested on FPS, might as well play on PC instead, that has a much larger selection of games that are just as good, while having superior controls, framerate and draw distance.

>> No.4998164

>>4997529
My point is that Goldeneye is closer to an old-school shooter in design than Turok. Doom, Quake, Wolf, and Duke were all much more straightforward in level and game design than Turok's action-adventure style exploration and platforming-heavy gigantic levels filled with collectibles needed to unlock the next level, which only grew more complicated with Turok 2's powers that require you to not only find more secret rooms to get them, but then return to old levels with those powers to reach new areas.

Compare that to "run to the exit and hit the button," which is a lot closer to what Goldeneye is, and it's just not the same. Incidentally, Doom and Quake and to a lesser extent Duke were wildly popular games, so average Joes were a lot more likely to play real old-school shooters than something like Turok.

>>4997717
They said that along with old hacky ways the original engine needed to render the level, they took out dead ends and useless rooms, but felt that they kept the spirit of the old level. Plenty of people were still pissed they made it easier, though.

>> No.4998173

They feel nigh unplayable on N64 but they were always great games.
WEE WOO WEE WOO NOT /vr/:
The modern PC rereleases of T1 and T2 are excellent, check them out.

>> No.4998190

>>4997721
>But if you're really interested on FPS, might as well play on PC instead, that has a much larger selection of games that are just as good, while having superior controls, framerate and draw distance.

Shut up. Maybe someone wants to play the great FPS games on consoles. They would miss out if they didn't play games like Goldeneye and Perfect Dark. They also have a different, unique way of playing the games. hurr durr we know mouse and keyboard is faster for aiming, we're not playing competitive and it doesn't mean there is no fun to be had playing with a controller instead for a change.

We already know about FPS games on PC, what's your point?

>But if you're really interested in FPS games, might as well play from 2014-2018, that has a much larger selection of games that are just as good, while having superior controls, framerate and draw distance.

>> No.4998212
File: 101 KB, 460x699, son of stone.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4998212

From Retro Gamer Magazine's look at Turok 1, starting with an interview with Nigel Cook, creative director at Iguana Entertainment:

>RG: The graphics were praised, but not the fogging. Were you aware of this during development?
>NC: Fogging was discussed more times during development than any other content. Due to technical restriction we had to balance the amount of on-screen geometry versus distance. We felt that fog within a jungle environment could be a misty atmosphere and allow us to focus more graphical detail in the vicinity of the player. In the end it was an off-putting graphical feature for many players. Everyone wished it could have been pushed back more.

>RG: Was there anything that disappointed you about the game?
>NC: The fog of course and some players had a difficult time in the platform jumping areas. I wish we could have removed some of them and made them easier.

From the article itself:
>On release, Turok was a critical hit in many countries, recieving strong reviews from many publications. The UK's Nintendo Magazine raved over it, calling it "a remarkable achievement" and claiming that it was better than Quake. That was hardly surprising coming from the official Nintendo mag, yet Turok and the seminal Super Mario 64 both recieved the exact same score in the March 1997 issue - 95%. "At the moment this is the other main reason, aside from Mario, to get an N64," the review concluded.
>[Computer and Video Games] also drew favourable comparisons to the Mario game in its 5/5 review, calling Turok "a completely engrossing and challenging 3D action game. You've finally got a second reason to buy that Nintendo 64."

>> No.4998217
File: 60 KB, 452x640, son of stone.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4998217

>>4998212
cont:
>Whether Turok was a system seller is difficult to say, but the game itself certainly sold well, shifting a reported 1.5 million copies. It may have sold even more had Acclaim not blatantly tried to exploit the N64's scant software line-up by ramping up the game's price - it's RRP was a hefty £70 in the UK, which was £10 more than Super Mario 64 and £15 more than most other third-party releases. It soon dropped to £40, which was a far more suitable price.

>> No.4998442

>>4998212
>>4998217
>Son of Stone
Wrong Turok, anon.

>> No.4998481

>>4998212
>>4998217
Pointing out the Silent Hill fog is not only fair, but necessary, yet when comparing N64 shooters, you also have GoldenEye's grinding, sometimes screeching framerate that only got worse with perfect dark. I'd say these issues put them around the same level.

>> No.4998557

>>4995206
*far better advertised

>> No.4998564

>>4998190
> hurr durr we know mouse and keyboard is faster for aiming, we're not playing competitive
It's not just that it's faster, it's more fluid. It's a much better control scheme, whether you're playing something competitively or not. Would you rather play Super Mario 64 with an N64 controller or a SNES controller?
You would probably say the N64 controller, because it's much better suited to the game.
Now would it be fair to say you would only want to play with the N64 controller if you were playing Mario 64 "competitively" as in a speedrun or something, and that for fun the SNES controller is just as good if not preferable?

>> No.4998576

>>4998564
It is, but there are a few shooters on the N64 and other consoles that are not available on PC, yet still worth visiting. And this is despite the inferior controller scheme. It's a bigger challenge for devs to make a manageable control scheme for shooters on consoles, so we're treating them on a category of their own.
Sure, I'd have loved to play Perfect Dark, Timesplitters, Halo 3 and so on with K&M, but that was not an available option. And they still managed to be great games despite using controllers, not because of them.

>> No.4998587

>>4995206
Both Turok and Goldeneye is shit compared to PC shooters, so who even cares.
Only those disagree who only had consoles at the time and didn't know any better.

>> No.4998605

>>4998587
>Both Turok and Goldeneye is shit compared to PC shooters
That's just the thing, though, they weren't. The PC had the landmarks of the genre, but those games were also objectively great in spite of their limitations.
DOS and Windows were flooded with so much FPS crap it's hard to fathom, so the ratio isn't all that different.

>> No.4998639

>>4995440
This. Perfect Dark only had issues when running mulitplayer with explosives or screen effect weapons tranquilizer/crossbow.

It ran just as well as Turok on Single player without having the shitty mist effect Turok had.

PD is all around the best fps on the system.

>> No.4998641

>>4998639
No it fucking didint. Turok 1 is mostly a stable 30 while perfect dark dips hard in the sinmgle player. Turok 2 also dips hard in the single player so you might be mistaking the games.

>> No.4998650

>>4995312
My brother and I personally had more fun on Turok 2's multiplayer than Goldeneye, but that could easily just be us.

>> No.4998651

>>4998641
I never had a problem with framerate on single player PD.

I didn't say Turok had framerate issues, the mist effect was just obnoxious.

>> No.4998654

>>4998651
The first datadyne level especially tanks into the single digits. It sucks for me because the N64 controller has better precision than the 360 controller. Mind you you wont have this problem on an emulator. I think.

>> No.4998743
File: 26 KB, 354x415, images (46).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4998743

>>4995470
The protagonist for this is an American Indian cowboy who lacks any of the stereotypical feather shit.

>> No.4998754

was this the first fps to have elaborate death animations? was the first for me anyway. that shit blew me away

>> No.4998763

>>4995205
Love Turok but one thing that was cool about Goldeneye for the time and still is now was the objective based level design. You weren't just running around collecting keys and killing dudes which was very unique for 1997.

>> No.4998793

>>4997046
yes. think of a more linear version of Turok 2, with the first couple levels being similar to Half Life

>> No.4999756
File: 142 KB, 700x479, RageWars.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4999756

I only played the re-releases of Turok 1 and 2. Kaiser and Night Dive claim they want to re-release every Turok game, or at least presumably up to Evolution or something. Was Rage Wars that good that it'd warrant a modern release, let alone on PC? Split screen might be kinda cool, but did it really compete with even Goldeneye?

>> No.4999760

>>4999756
It didn't need to compete with Goldeneye to warrant a re-release. And I've read comments from Night Dive that state they have no plans to remaster 3 so far, so we'll see.

>> No.4999773

>>4999756
I wish ND could just make a sequel/reboot or something instead of remaking the mediocre Turok games like 3 and Evolution.

>> No.4999780

>>4995205
Turok just reminded me of Doom
Doom was 2D shit

GoldenEye beat the shit out of Turok and Doom on every level, even down to style, story and playability.

Nobody was coming home from the pub with their mates to play 4player Turok and smoke weed. becaue it lacks character and enjoyment.

>turok is still a good game tho

>> No.4999796

>>4999780
>Doom was 2D shit
You need to fuck off, you missed /v/ by a few boards over.

>> No.4999809

>>4999796
it was just rotating 2D backgrounds
didn't give the impression of 3D unless you used your imagination.

Doom was for PCfags and it was shit repatative boring crap.

GoldenEye was the first FPS everyone played.

The only people who remember Doom were middle-class and rich kids whose family had PCs. Literally nobody where I lived had one. Only knew a few people at school with PCs and yes, they loved Doom. But they weren't dumb enough to compare it to a real 3D game like GoldenEye.

>> No.4999818

>>4999760
What I meant was, was it mediocre? Turok 1 and 2 are truly original games that are I think are historically important in the grand scheme of shooters and games, if only to see such a different take on them. But Rage Wars seems to be just one more console shooter in a field full of them. Is it really worth playing when there are so many greats like Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, and the Timesplitters series? (not /vr/, but still relevant in the Rareware shooter genealogy)

>> No.4999870

>>4995475
Never had any trouble with the frame rate on my N64. You must be playing a damaged cartridge.

>> No.4999871

>>4996938
DOOM 64 fucking sucked though

>> No.4999879

>>4999809
Aiming in goldeneye is fucking shit, the music skips, there is no blood, the graphics look bad even for 1997, and the sound effects are annoying. Need I say more?

>> No.4999882

>>4999870
Might want to check out your eyes anon. You're blind.

>> No.4999883

>>4999809
>it was just rotating 2D backgrounds
Arranged in beatuiful maps.
>didn't give the impression of 3D unless you used your imagination.
Maybe if you're missing your frontal lobe.

>> No.4999886

>>4999870
>Never had any trouble with the frame rate on my N64
I just love this kind of idiot, when framerate can be measured objectively.

>> No.4999887

>>4999882
Nope, go watch a let’s play of Turok 2 and tell me where the skipping is at? Just hating on a superior FPS

>> No.4999890

>>4999886
You can run the game on project64, fucktard. The frame rate is normal.

>> No.4999891

>>4999887
Even as a child I member the fps tanking when fighting the Mother boss
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wY3PjrVsHvw

>> No.4999892

>>4999890
That's the thing.
Project 64 is way overclocked, it runs much smoother than real hardware.

>> No.4999894

>>4999892
So the emulator is superior to the actual system? hmmm

>> No.4999896

>>4995470
Tommy from Prey(would have been retro if they released it when they wanted to) did not want to be a native at all.

>> No.4999898

I wish someone would reverse engineer the emulator they used for the Xbone versions of Rare games, all these years and P64 is still ass.

>> No.4999901

>>4999898
It's a source port, not an emulator. There's a modified version of 1964 that allegedly runs Goldeneye and Perfect Dark at 60fps, you might want to look that up.

>> No.4999907

>>4999879
Sorry, I don’t mean all of that but Goldeneye gets way to much worshipping. Turok 2 has more weapons, more enemies, boss battles, and a larger area of land to explore.

>> No.5000213
File: 2.84 MB, 640x360, goldeneye_frame.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5000213

>>4999886
Yes, and for a very long time on this board people were claiming that Goldeneye's framerate was in the single digits. And the objectively measured framerates disproved that.

>> No.5000631

>>5000213
Well, it's edging right there, maybe they were just exaggerating. I think it does dip further down with splitscreen.
Also, the webm seems believable, but the 16:9 is concerning. Where is this from?

>> No.5000658

i always found killing stuff really unsatisfying in turok one. everything takes way too much ammo to kill, the guns have shitty feedback, and without the cool enemy design all that's left is the incredibly primitive level design

turok 2 is way better, but even then goldeneye and PD are the better games

>> No.5000749

Hardcore difficulty is such bullshit.

>> No.5000914

PD and Goldeneye were better just by the fact that you dont need a controller pack

>> No.5000921

>>4995205
More moms allowed golden eye than turok.

>> No.5001081

>>5000914
No, for PD you just need an expansion pak.

>> No.5001110

>>4995205
Quake 64 was better than Turok

>> No.5001125
File: 46 KB, 472x300, quakedifferences.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5001125

>>5001110
kek