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/vr/ - Retro Games

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4952846 No.4952846 [Reply] [Original]

What the fuck where they thinking?

>> No.4952849

Wait a second, is that Pikablu?
Who is that pink pokemon?

>> No.4952858

>>4952846
Cows are not magic milk machines any more than your mom is.

>> No.4952864

>>4952846
I know, right?! The nerve of them, making the game slightly challenging.

>> No.4952873

It was honestly only hard as a dumb kid. If youre older you realize there about a million ways to beat it

>> No.4952953

>>4952846
Where did you get marill?

>> No.4953095

just get a geodude

>> No.4953098

>>4952864

>challenging

There's no such a thing on JRPGs, since all you have to do is grind and level up. A game is challenging only if the only way to get past a point is getting gud.

>> No.4953102

>>4953098
Based

>> No.4953114

>>4953102
Please do not respond to the shmup poster.

>> No.4953514

you can trade a Machop nearby

>> No.4953519

filtering what were they thinking to I'm a faggot when

>> No.4953530

How the fuck did you get a Marill before Whitney?

>> No.4953535

This fight is really only hard if you

A} Chose Cyndaquil, meaning you probably also
B} Didn't grab a Geodude to easily beat Falkner and Bugsy

Anyone who picked Chikorita had to find a way out to Falkner, the best one of which was undoubtedly Geodude, and if you chose Totodile you were in the same situation, but also had fucking Gen II Totodile with its shitty Special Attack stat. Geodude is a fucking brick wall against Miltank.

>> No.4953552

>>4953098
Can we stop this meme

>> No.4953557

>>4953098
Every level you grind is you making the game easier on yourself.

That's like saying 'Oh, [GAME] isn't challenging at all because you can just play on easy mode'.

If you're not a brainlet you can beat any JRPG without grinding outside of the encounters you fight naturally.

>> No.4953572

>>4953535
Miltank 8HKOs Geodude with Stomp, assuming its at the same level. That sounds like a lot, but between Attract, Stomp's flinch chance and Milk Drink, Geodude is obviously outmatched, particularly since it has no way of dealing more than 10% damage per turn. It helps a little if you happened to get a female one though.

Machop is in a similar position. It does more damage, but it also takes more. You're also less likely to have a female one to deal with Attract.

Miltank is a strong Pokémon with an excellent moveset for this part of the game. Defeating it is not hard, since you're essentially playing 6v2 and have access to more items, but 1v1ing it is difficult because Whitney's Miltank has no hard counters which are accessible in this part of the game.

>> No.4953574

>>4953572
She isn't going to do shit against either Geodude or Machop because you send them in when she's already locked into Rollout. Not to mention the AI is fucked and she only ever uses Rollout and Attract in the first place, with the sole exception being if you're 4x resisting Rollout.

>> No.4953582

>>4953574
Miltank does do plenty of damage with Rollout when it hits more than three times though, even if it's resisted.

>> No.4953585

>>4953582
Not against Geodude or Machop. Have you ever even done this or are you just memeing on how difficult it is?

>> No.4953586

It's a pretty chill fight if you go out of your way to fight every trainer on the way there. Then again it's been years since I've played the game without at least 800% speedup on an emulator.

>> No.4953592

>>4952953
>>4953530
>gameshark codes
>randomizer

I think the only legit way is trading though.

Also, completely recommend randomizers for all the pokemon games.

>> No.4953595

>>4953535
cyndaquil has smoke screen though

>> No.4953619

>>4953098
Based and redpilled
>>4953557
There's no Easy mode in Pokémon though. The game itself is Easy mode.

For Pokémon to be challenging, you would have to Nuzlocke it without using any health items during battles and not overleveling. That would be challenging, but it is a self-imposed challenge.

>> No.4953632

>>4953585
Have you? 3 hits with Rollout means 120 base damage. That's substantially stronger than Stomp, and if it hits one more time your Geodude will be close to KO. Geodude cannot outdamage Miltank even with the type advantage, unless you get lucky with Magnitude or something.

Machop deals more damage and I can see it winning 1v1 if it gets a crit or something.

>> No.4953643

>>4953557
So, given that encounter rates are random in many JRPGs, how do you quantify what is naturally, especially if that one level is very material? If Player A winds up with 10 encounters and reaches level 4 for the first boss, while Player B only gets 6 encounters and as such is at level 3 for the boss, is Player A the grinding brainlet through no "fault" of his own? Now, what if reaching level 4 gives the player a new magic that the boss is very weak against? What if Player A's ever so slightly more aimless movement path on the map resulted in five more steps, and the fifth one gave him the 10th encounter which resulted in the level up? Is he grinding now?
>inb4 muh random powerup drops

>> No.4953648
File: 38 KB, 480x320, mugen_contemplating.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4953648

>>4952846
I once heard someone claim that they simply got a Ghastly and absolutely styled on that Miltank.
Now I haven't played the game in a while, so is it feasible to do that?

>> No.4953652

>>4953098
Isn't grinding technically "getting gud"?

>> No.4953656

>>4952846
I beat it with my Flaaffy

>> No.4953659

>geodude
>gastly
>pineco with self destruct

>> No.4953703

>>4953632
So the game is broken and literally impossible. Got it.

>> No.4953705

>>4953648
No, because Rollout.

>> No.4953712

I don't get why people are so scared of that cow, I always brute-forced it with the starter as a kid. If you use Mud-Slap it's utterly helpless.

>> No.4953716

>>4952846
mega milk

>> No.4953748

>>4953648
If it knew Curse, entirely likely. Use Curse and just watch Miltank fucking die. Sure you lose a couple of dudes in the process while Curse does the heavy lifting but at that point the fight is won.

>> No.4953759

Miltank would attract you 90% of the time before ever attacking.

It's rollout I swear to God might have had like a 99% hit rate NOT 90%.

>> No.4953762

>>4953759
Unless you knew this beforehand and got female pokemon.

>> No.4953768

>>4953762
I was like 7 at the time, I had no real idea how attract worked and that rollout would power up every hit.

>> No.4953779

>>4953712
Children were stupid. That's all. It's literally a meme fight. Anyone competent should not think she's a roadblock.

>> No.4953935

>>4952846
>What the fuck where they thinking?
That you should trade for a Machop and kick the shit out of that tiddy cow

>> No.4953939

>>4953619
>There's no Easy mode in Pokémon though.
the starters are literally easy/medium/hard mode

>> No.4953943

>>4953592
>Finding a fire Pokemon while in water

Nah ruins the immersion, I still nuzlocke the vanilla games

>> No.4954195

>>4953643
Random encounters are never this skewed because you encounter far more of them. It'd be more like one player has 45 encounters and the other has 55.

>>4953703
That's not at all what I was saying. It's a battle that's harder than most others in the game by a wide margin but it's not a hard one at all.

>> No.4954207
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4954207

>>4953935
Fucking this. I always see people complaining about that cow but they give you a fucking hard counter in the very same city. Trade for machop. Use machop on all the immediate trainers in the area to level it up. Then 2 shot the cow with karate chops and never use machop again because you can also get heracross by that point too, unfortunately it doesn't learn any fighting moves until later but its stats make it hilariously OP for a good long while.

>> No.4954240

>>4954207

I never liked using traded pokemon. It never felt right. I want to use all the pokemon I caught and named myself.

>> No.4954264
File: 153 KB, 100x100, shapeshiftingpikachu.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4954264

>>4954240
Then catch something with something like sand attack or double team and the cow can't ever get more than 2 hits off with rollout and you win using anything after that.

>> No.4954338

>>4953535
even choosing cyndaquil, fighting whitneys not hard at all if you get a female one with half-decent IVs.

>> No.4954345

>>4954338
>if you get a female one with half-decent IVs

It's not like kids in 1999 were doing the modern autistic shit of resetting for good stats. Back then you just got what you got and probably didn't even know what IVs were.

>> No.4954361

>>4953586
>800% speedup on an emulator
God, the babby JPRGs (Pokemon, Earthbound) are excruciating w/o emulator turbo-mode. I wonder whether I never really enjoyed Pokemon as a kid, but played it because it was hot shit, or if taking amphetamines has ruined my patience for slow-moving tasks and corrupted my innocence.

>> No.4954380

>>4953652
There's no skill involved in just doing more damage and taking less the more you play

>> No.4954383

>>4953098

this is... kind of true

>> No.4954385

>>4954338
>female
>half-decent IVs
Pick one.

>> No.4954390

If you just mud slap or growl it it's a joke

>> No.4954838

>>4954385
The only thing being female prevents is getting a 15 IV. Everything else is just slightly less likely.

>> No.4954852

>>4953939
Though you are right in that the game was designed with three different paths in mind, even the "hard" one is very easy.

>> No.4954904

Does anyone have a rip of the 3DS version of crystal? I want to play it on my EverDrive GB and not 3DS like a savage.

>> No.4954910

>>4954838
In gen 2 a female Cyndaquil can only have a 0 or 1 attack DV. That's how gender is determined.

>> No.4954912

>>4954904
The rom is identical to the commercial rom, the emulator enables the Celebi event and the Jynx color switch.

>> No.4954914
File: 459 KB, 1611x761, don't copy that floppy.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4954914

>>4954904
yep :-)

>> No.4954917

>>4954912
oic, thanks anon. will use gameshark code instead then.

>> No.4954943

>>4953098
tell that to ys inferno let alone nightmare

>> No.4955409

>>4953557
Good games (true games) don't have easy mode.

>> No.4955425

>>4953098
If you're grinding, it's because you suck at the game.

>> No.4955579

>>4953098
the developers i think contemplated a player who explored goldenrod and the surrounding areas for a type advantage in machop (which levels up quickly enough that you don't have to grind). in the remake you can let a trainer on route 35 burn your machop to activate guts so your attacks do 2x damage. obviously if you're a misreable dope and you don't look for such things you're going to have a bad time. you are correct though

>> No.4956387

pokemon is piss easy but timeless

>> No.4957193

>>4952846
Miltank is udderly ridiculous.

>> No.4957218

>>4956387
You can always challenge yourself with a nuzlocke run.

>> No.4957219
File: 220 KB, 642x475, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4957219

>fight whitney
>miltanks obliterates me
>she acts all smug and cute like "teehee silly boy ^_^"
>whatever, come up with a strategy
>beat her
>she starts crying like a fucking brat and refuses to give me the badge
>mfw

This part alone pissed me off more than anything else. First she acts as a bad winner and then becomes a sore loser, god I'd fucking clock her in the face and take the badge by force at that point. Stupid fucking roastie.

>> No.4957224

>>4957219
Based and redpilled.

>> No.4957242

>>4955425
Based and true for nearly every game with XP.

>>4953939
Wrong. I guess you're one of those guys who claims that Bulbasaur is 'easy mode' even if Charmander is a better choice overall due to the lack of Fire types in the game, huh?


>>4954264
The point was never that it's an impossibly hard encounter, just that it's a hard one for a Pokemon game. There are many ways to beat Miltank and most are easy for someone with half a brain. However, in Pokemon you can beat most gyms with literally any team without any planning, this is an exception to that.

It's a good thing, all gyms should be challenging.

>> No.4957256

>>4957242
>Bulbasaur is 'easy mode
Who the fuck says that, I thought Squirtle was easy mode due to learning Blizzard and your Rival's final team being slightly weaker

>> No.4957259

>>4957219

Pokemon was redpilling you on women at a young age.

>> No.4957265

>>4953098
Fighting battles is not grinding, it's gameplay
Intentionally fighting excessive battles is grinding

>> No.4957269

>>4953098

no one likes shmups.

>> No.4957271

>>4957256
I think it says so in some strategy guides because I have read it very often.

The logic is that Bulbasaur has a type advantage against the first two gym leaders, Squirtle only against one, and Charmander only gets useful against the later gyms. But really, after the first two gyms you should have a full team anyways so it no longer matters which starter you chose.

Also many things learn Blizzard. The game is full of great Water types that will do the exact same thing as Squirtle, although there aren't as many that can fill Charmander or Bulbasaur's role due to the lack of readily accessible Fire and Grass types that aren't shit.

>> No.4957291

>>4952846
I think I just used a female Furret and sand attack a few times before beating the shit out of it

>> No.4957391

>>4957256
i'd say venusaur is honestly the best pick for a starter. fire types are unnecessary and not very good in RBY, although other than moltres charizard is at least the best among them except maybe arcanine. Venusaur is a solid mon with access to all statuses and leech seed, probably only outclassed by exeggutor. blastoise is not even in the top 5 best water types, being inferior to lapras (which you are handed), starmie, cloyster, slowbro, gyarados, vaporeon, and you could even make cases for omastar and tentacruel.

>> No.4957392

How is her fight on Stadium 2?

>> No.4957395

>>4957391
>charizard
>only normal attacks and ember until lv 50+

It's pretty bad. But so are the others.

>> No.4957636

>send in Mewtwo
>win
Such wow so tuff

>> No.4957752

>>4957218
are you implying that will make the game harder?
i could nuzlocke the game limiting myself to 8 pokecenter visits a game, underlevelled and still not struggle

>> No.4957782

>>4957752
I suggest you break your arms and legs, and play the game with your tongue, you fucking cunt.

>> No.4957824

>>4952846
Is it possible to beat this game with only one Pokemon ? Which one?

>> No.4957836

>>4952849
ur mum

>> No.4957839

>>4957824
The elite 4 are all fairly low level compared to the cap of 100. It would be harder with some than others, but outside of something like an unevolved Metapod, you could solo the game with any Pokemon.

Easily any of the starters.

>> No.4957961

>>4957839
Well not just any Pokemon can learn all the HM moves, so that will limit your options a lot of you're really trying to beat the game with a single Pokemon.

>> No.4957968

>>4957961
I wouldn't consider having an hm slave or two that you never take into battle as a deal breaker, but that is a point.

>> No.4957989

>>4952846
>whitney
>hard

KEK

>> No.4957991

>>4953535
I lit solod whitney with a quilava
same level as her miltank

how is she hard?

>> No.4958059
File: 266 KB, 480x360, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4958059

>>4957259
Redpill?

>defeat claire
>she doesn't think I showed my true potential so she asks me to go to some cave to talk to some old dude
>answer his questions
>she comes along and he tells her I'm more qualified to be a gym leader than she is
>she freaks out

>in kanto, going for a stroll, minding my own business
>Misty was on a date with some Chad that didn't want to be seen with her
>she flips the fuck out on me as if I deliberately went to look for her

I just wanted to go for a walk.

>> No.4958364

>>4953098
are you nigga? how are you going to gitgud in Pokémon? You need to level up to learn new moves. This isn't an ARPG where you can dodge and stylishcombo your way up.
If the enemy has a level 40 pkmn and mine is level 20, he has the upperhand.
Challange = difficulty or strategic?

>> No.4958370

>>4954207
I though... P3 MC and Mitsuru xD

>> No.4958569

>>4958364
Why are you repeating his point with dumber wording?

>> No.4959998

>>4953939
The kanto starters don't quite fit into the easy medium hard thing

But Johto, hoo boy. It's cut and dry.
Easy
>Quilava flamewheelin
Medium
>Totodile gets ice punch. He's ok
Hard
>Oh shit chikorita wtf
Flying gym, bug gym, ice gym, steel gym, ghost/poison gym you're fucked nonstop

>> No.4960017

>>4957395
I always used its superior speed to use slash and dig to one hit kill nearly everything.

>> No.4960331

>>4952846
That players would catch a rock type in the caves leading up to it or trade for a Machop with a nearby NPC.

>> No.4960337

>>4953535
If you picked totodile you'd also have access to Rage, which just on its own makes the entire fight a joke.

>> No.4961429

>>4953098
Which is why Diablo is better than Diablo 2.

>> No.4961981

>>4954345
Azure Heights had all that documented before Gold and Silver even came out.

>> No.4962429

>>4961981
Okay, great, but the guy who made that is an adult, I'm talking about kids. And not everyone had the internet and even those who had it didn't necessarily find any particular website because things were much more disparate back then. None of that information was nearly as ubiquitous or well-known as it is now.

>> No.4962469

>>4954345
Maybe not kids, but I was in college when Pokemon was big and the discovery of EVs and EPs was like a bombshell. It also led to kind of a split between those who had picked it up because it was popular and the more obsessive players who would bore anyone who listened with in depth musings about mechanics and breeding (that was me) it was quite a time.

>> No.4962648

>>4961429
Debatable. Single-player is better in D1, and has the classic ARPG dungeon design. D2 has great multiplayer, and a wider range of items and skills/builds.

>> No.4962671

>>4957218
>
nuzlocke is overrated, you would have to add like 10 rules to make it somewhat challenging

>> No.4962679

i have been so spoiled with emulators using the speed function that i cant play pokemon games without it anymore. how do i go back

>> No.4962698

>>4957265
But since you can skip most random battles you could argue that fightig any random battle is excessive

>> No.4962782
File: 65 KB, 551x548, IMG_2486.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4962782

>>4958364
...that's the fucking point. JRPGs, by their instrinsic design, are incredibly easy to beat. the big brain opinion is that the games are more about story telling and atmosphere, but people that claim "JRPGS ARE ACTUALLY REALLY HARD" are moronic. even if you don't grind in an effort to make the game more challenging, you're still an RNG babby at the end of the day

>> No.4964084

>>4962782
It's more that they let you choose your level of difficulty based on how much you let yourself level up and beating low level runs has a lot morethan just hoping fir good rng.

>> No.4964131

>>4964084
>It's more that they let you choose your level of difficulty based on how much you let yourself level up

That's a terrible method to begin with. Difficulty should be chosen from the menu so that it can be actually designed with an appropriate curve to provide consistent challenge to the player at the desired level. In JRPGs you can literally just become over-leveled and make the rest of the game too easy if you get lost too many times in dungeons.

Conversely you can accidentally become under-leveled by going through too quickly and sometimes get stuck in parts where even trying to level up on random encounters is overly difficult because you fell so far behind the developer's intended level curve.

And since there's never any way to know for certain what the current intended level is there's no way to know how near or far you are from the developer's intentions for the difficulty at any given point.

>> No.4964221

>>4964131
>Difficulty should be chosen from the menu

I disagree. The developer just wants you to have fun, be that playning normally, challenging yourself or grinding till everything is easy. It's your game, you play it how you want.

>> No.4964232

>>4964131
>In JRPGs you can literally just become over-leveled and make the rest of the game too easy if you get lost too many times in dungeons.

If you suck hard enough that you get lost in a dungeon so much you end up overleveled then the game did you a service.

>> No.4964253

>>4962469
Sounds like you were a blast at partys

>> No.4964275

The fight was tough because you were too stubborn to use Rock or Fighting, because you knew you weren't going to use those fucking types ever again, so why go through the inefficient labor of leveling one specific thing for this one fight? Rock and Fighting are a joke outside of Rhydon and Heracross, and neither of those are available at the time. Neither is any Steel IIRC.

>> No.4964316

>>4964232

Except that sucking at navigation or puzzle solving is completely disparate from sucking at combat. Overleveling will not help you navigate dungeons better, and getting lost isn't a sign that you need help in combat.

>> No.4964383

>>4964316
I still think it would be funny to be that bad at something. But anyways unless it was a chronic problem, xp curves tend to be near parabolic so accidental overleveling can be quicky fixed by avoiding some battles in the next area. You do gave control over it. You could pretty easily spend 100 hours in dragon quest grinding slimes and then rush the rest of the game and get to the end way underleveled.

>> No.4964396

>>4964275
You can catch a Heracross before goldenrod but its pretty useless since it learns no fighting moves