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/vr/ - Retro Games

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495097 No.495097 [Reply] [Original]

Difficult retro games.

>> No.495124
File: 25 KB, 256x224, Castlevania Dracula X_Apr25 0_28_09.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
495124

FUCK

>> No.495139

>>495097
I beat Batman but I can't get very far in Castlevania III.

>> No.495179
File: 15 KB, 960x672, Ecco.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
495179

Obligatory post: Ecco the Dolphin
This evil game has made quite some small children cry expecting a having some swimming fun with a dolphin.

>> No.495197

Retro games are too simple to be truly difficult. They have to rely on lives, continues, restarting from the beginning, perfect maneuvers, dying in 2 hits... No wonder they don't make games like these anymore.

>> No.495205

>>495197
Try Dark Souls sometime.

>> No.495236

>>495205
Backstep: the game. Just as simple and easy as retro titles. That's an example of a game that shouldn't have been made, given the abysmal sales and the overreliance on "This game will make you cry, guys. Really!" viral campaign.

>> No.495237

>>495197
>Artificial difficulty

Careful where you tread Anon, because it sounds like you're implying something here that isn't true..

>> No.495271

>>495197
Modern games kill you for real these days?

>> No.495276
File: 26 KB, 360x270, bgAbadox13.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
495276

cheapshots and jump scares everywhere

>> No.495313

>>495237
He's wrong, but there's a bit of artificial difficulty in old games. Tank controls, pointless time limits, limited continues in home console games.

>> No.495310

>>495197
>>495236
get the fuck out of here. next time come come telling us how battle garegga is not hard it just you can't see the bullet.

a game is a set of rules
you can't beat it by following the rules? => the game is hard

it as simple as that.

>> No.495312 [DELETED] 

Obligatory.

>>495236
>>495236
>Abysmal sales
What qualifies as abysmal sales now? It sold over 2 million across 3 platforms and there is a sequel in the works.

>> No.495320 [DELETED] 
File: 36 KB, 640x480, Serious Sam.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
495320

>AAAAAAAAA
>Okay, it's just a kamikaze wave, no big deal
>KLOP KLOP KLOP KLOP KLOP KLOP KLOP KLOP KLOP

>> No.495329
File: 169 KB, 640x876, ghostsngoblinsnes.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
495329

Obligatory.

>> No.495330

>>495310

not retro

die in a fire for being a flaming faggot drama queen

>> No.495363

>>495330
Battle Garegga was released in 1996.

>> No.495392

>>495310
There is a game called The Imaginary Game.
This game has ony one rule: there are no rules.

>> No.495395

gimmick.
week of garfield.

>> No.495397
File: 108 KB, 255x186, Hagane_-_The_Final_Conflict_Coverart.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
495397

Not the most difficult of games, but it certainly takes a lot of practice and skill.
That fucking level where you have to run through obstacles while the screen explodes behind you.

Also obligatory to mention a battletoads game, so battlemaniacs on snes. Who's the sick bastard who decided to put the snake level right after the fucking hoverbikes?

>> No.495406

>>495320
That's not retro.

>> No.495430

>>495313
None of those are "artificial difficulty".
You lose.

>> No.495485

>>495197
This post just might be the most retarded thing i have ever read on /vr/, and i have heard a guy say Donkey Kong Country was the hardest platformer ever made.

>> No.495515

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AQ1eWoKMK8&list=PL224CFF3B77A60C49

>> No.495585

>>495397
Good game. Even though the gameplay wasn't spectacular, it was definitely good, and its style made it stand out the most.

>> No.495634

>>495197
I concur with most of this. A lot of an older game's difficulty actually stems from how punishing it is when you fuck up, rather than inherent difficulty of what you were doing at the time before you fucked up. I find it pretty interesting how punishment in a game affect's one's perceptions of how difficult it is to varying degrees. You sir, are a faggot though.

>> No.495685

>>495276
Just tried this game out. It's not too bad but I can't seem to get past the robot boss. I'll try again later but I like the difficulty in this game

>> No.495692

>>495139
I'm the other way around. I've beaten Castlevania III any which way you can, all paths and characters, multiple times but I can't beat the first boss in Batman.

Obviously I've invested much more time in one than the other but still.

>> No.495717

Is batman a metroidvania?

>> No.495727

>>495634
>A lot of an older game's difficulty actually stems from how punishing it is when you fuck up, rather than inherent difficulty of what you were doing at the time before you fucked up
Yes, and?
Not being able to make as many mistakes or being punished more for the mistakes you make means you have to play more competently for longer periods in order to succeed.
Ain't nothin' wrong with that. That's a perfectly legitimate form of difficulty.

>I find it pretty interesting how punishment in a game affect's one's perceptions of how difficult it is to varying degrees
There's nothing "interesting" about it.
Imagine if you could pass a class with a grade of 30 or higher, rather than 70 or higher.
Obviously the class would be MUCH EASIER even if the material stayed exactly the same, or are you seriously going to try and argue otherwise?

>> No.495734

>>495717
No.
It's an action platformer like Ninja Gaiden or Mega Man or whatever.

>> No.495771

Which Batman is that?
Also, i'm currently playing Zombies ate my Neighbors, and it isn't even REMOTELY hard. Not that it's a bad game, the hedgmaze was 2spooky, but you get way too many good weapons and medkits for it to be any hard.

>> No.495807

>>495771
It's just called "Batman". It's an NES game if you can't tell.

>> No.495830

>>495807
I don't know how many Batman games are in each console, or their names. But thanks, bro.

>> No.495857

>>495727
>Yes, and?
Not being able to make as many mistakes or being punished more for the mistakes you make means you have to play more competently for longer periods in order to succeed.
Ain't nothin' wrong with that. That's a perfectly legitimate form of difficulty.
I didn't say it wasn't. I'm not that faggot.

>There's nothing "interesting" about it.
Imagine if you could pass a class with a grade of 30 or higher, rather than 70 or higher.
Obviously the class would be MUCH EASIER even if the material stayed exactly the same, or are you seriously going to try and argue otherwise?
In that example we perceive one class as easier than the other because it was more lenient rather than because the materials were harder, exactly like how we perceive a game as easier because of more lives rather than because of easier level design (if just like in your example, both games feature the same levels). It's exactly why I find that interesting. The ratio of difficulty in what the player is doing to how badly you punish them for fucking up that devs have in their games. A lot of old games had it only on the punishment side (with the notoriously difficult stuff like Battletoads or Ninja Gaiden had both) and a lot of current games lessened the punishment side and then didn't up the difficulty side. Like look at Super Mario Bros to New Super Mario Bros. The levels in NSMB have many more difficult jumps or shit to deal with at a time. But you get a billion lives and powerups plus many more movement options so its easy.

Again, I'm not trying to imply anything bad about the older games, it's just something interesting to me.

>> No.495878

>>495771
ZAMN doesn't really get any difficult until the 30s or so. It really depends on whether you've been letting people die or have been missing stuff.

>> No.496964

>>495857
>In that example we perceive one class as easier than the other because it was more lenient rather than because the materials were harder
But we don't just PERCEIVE one class as harder. It REALLY IS harder.
Surely you'd agree that playing an old game and save scumming using save states, or playing an old arcade game and credit feeding rather than going for a 1cc, each make the experience much easier.
In both situations you've removed all punishment.
With unlimited retries and continues, you have unlimited room for failure.
You don't have to improve as a player to win and so the game is no longer challenging (no longer rewarding either, but that ain't the point).

You could say the individual challenges in the game are exactly the same, but the difficulty of overcoming those challenges is vastly different given different context.

>> No.496983
File: 460 KB, 876x1229, sega-genesis-chakan-front-cover.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
496983

>> No.497062

Every NES shooter is a like a battle against the controllers poor responsiveness.

>> No.497067

>>497062
Examples?

>> No.497070

I'm surprised no one has mentioned metal slug. If you tried metal slug advance, every time you died you restarted at your last checkpoint, and if you died 4 times, you got a game over.

>> No.497089

>>497067
Pressing the button will never guarantee a shoot because of the pants on head retarded rubber pads under the buttons.

>> No.499204

control-f
Silver Surfer? Ikari Warriors? Deadly Towers? Mission Impossible? SOLAR JETMAN? Super Spike V'Ball?

>> No.499218

>>499204
It took me quite some time to figure out the first level of Mission: Impossible, but it wasn't particularly difficult once I did. Level three is what kept me stuck for the better part of a year. Specifically, the boss battle. I remember breezing through all the levels after that without much difficulty.

>> No.499980

Batman!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekXridId_lM

>> No.499995

Batman isn't that difficult except for those ANNOYING "jumping-monkey-man" enemies at the beginning of stage 2 and the final boss.

>> No.500005

>>495830
There are two Batman games on NES, I think. "Batman," and "Batman: Return of the Joker."

>> No.500012

>no nethack
>no ADOM
>no Moria
>no Omega

Where are my rogue bros @?

>> No.500270

>>500012
>that feel when all those games are dead

Does Nethack even have any active forks still?

>> No.500305

>>500270
>dead
>adom

Nethack is nothing but artificial difficulty, anyway. If you don't use spoilers, you have zero chance of winning.

>> No.500331

>>500270
Yup. UnNetHack is the best all arund, it's pretty good. It even has its own server and stuff. The dev will release a new version soon, I think.
Two variants, NitroHack and AceHack, merged to make NetHack 4 (named like this to taunt the devteam to release the next version, I think), a variant with some sweet interface improvements.
There's this thing, UnNitroHack (fucking mishmash of names) that is UnNetHack + NitroHack, but it's still in dev.
Ray Chason opened a repo for vanilla bugfixes a while ago.
>>500305
Not really. Most of the stuff is really easy to figure out, and if you die you kinda now what you could have done.
Now ADOM "put a ring on your ring finger, right hand to not get instakiled by a monster you have no warning for" is retarded.

>> No.500339

>>500305
There has been a unspoiled ascension, and other guy got pretty close to winning iirc.
Hell, I got to Medusa when I was young, and I didn't even have internet.

>> No.500479

>>500331
Bullshit. Everything you need to know about ADOM can be found in the manual. If you die, it's because you made a poor decision. Total opposite of nethack.

>> No.500535

>>500479
Where's the banshee in the manual? And how could you know that stepping on an altar when a intelligent monster is near is a bad decision?
And on NetHack, the Guidebook tells you quite a bit of stuff. You have the oracle, the cookies and the engravings too.
NetHack has some flaws, obviously, but most deaths are avoidable. It's pretty puzzle like, really.
I'm not saying ADOM is a bad game, but is certainly a bit more obscure than NetHack. They are different games with different scopes.

>> No.500653

*harsh death penalty+easy challenge=easy game
(an example would be smb where only the last few levels are hard but you have very limited lives

*small death penalty+hard challenge=hard game
(see ninja gaiden and ghosts n goblins where the levels are super hard but you have unlimited continues)

*small death penalty+easy levels=no skill required
(super meat boy is an example)

*harsh death penalty+harsh levels=skilled players only
(for an example look at most shmups and competative tournaments where you drop out of the cup if you lose 2 rounds)

>> No.501125

>>500653
What about sandbox games?

>> No.501135

>>500653
>*small death penalty+easy levels=no skill required
>(super meat boy is an example)


wut

>> No.501168
File: 36 KB, 220x310, 220px-Bayou_Billy_box[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
501168

this game is just a piece of shit, it's not even fun

>> No.501208

>>500653
>competative tournaments where you drop out of the cup if you lose 2 rounds
I don't understand why so many people seem to use the skill of other players as a factor of how difficult or easy a game is.
Also lemmings for OP

>> No.501229

>>501135
I can say similar about the Souls games, they are difficult, yes, but most of it comes from knowing WHAT to do. Once you know what to do, it's a breeze.

>> No.501256

>>501229

But SMB has an execution element to it. And it's pretty obvious what to do from the start.

>> No.501308

>>501256
Well it's obvious what I have to do when someone is bleeding like crazy from a sliced wrist, what's your point?

>> No.501325

>>501208
the point is that tournaments are hard because the penalty for losing is harsh.

this is true regardless of the skill of players involved

>> No.501357
File: 75 KB, 250x183, Super_Turrican_(USA).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
501357

Oh, its easy because you have a gun that shoots 50 bullets a second

TOO BAD IT HARDLY DOES ANY FUCKING DAMAGE

>> No.501389

>>501229
thats really what makes souls since a boring game series

things only hold any challenge the first time
there arn't a lot of random or sudden movmenents by enemies so it gets old really quickly