/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.4945113]

So how are you supposed to complete this shit without prior knowledge of all the important secrets?

[babbage's gramps !RATGzMALLY No.4945126]

Use the incomplete map in the manual to get your momentum then consult the sages and maybe take some notes.

[Anonymous No.4945130]

GET THE POWER

[Anonymous No.4945153]

Call your friend who has a subscription to Nintendo Power.

[Anonymous No.4945157]

literally just read the manual

[Anonymous No.4945167]

>>4945113
By getting gud. Completed it when I was 14 took me a fucking month. Stop being a whiny entitled bitch and enjoy the journey.

[Anonymous No.4945184]

>>4945167
>farm bombs like a retard and use them on every single object
>use candle on every single tree (even though there's nothing indicating that candle works like that)
That's not getting gud, that's being autistic.

[Anonymous No.4945196]

>>4945184
>Can't figure out where to use items without a giant flashing waypoint and autopathfinding.
>IT'S IMPOSSIBLE, YOU MUST BE AUTISTIC!
Do you get confused if there isn't a cutscene holding your hand every three steps too?

[Anonymous No.4945216]

>>4945196
No, I don't. I also didn't say it's impossible, it's just extremely boring and time consuming.

That's bullshit design and it doesn't deserve the amount of praise these games get.

[Anonymous No.4945219]

>>4945216
>these games
The first and second are the only ones that let the player just figure shit out in that way. Arguably even botw has way points and shit.

[babbage's gramps !RATGzMALLY No.4945229]

>>4945216
It was the game play experience people wanted from a major release video game at the time. I'm honestly sorry that's impossible for you to grasp but now it's 2018 and you can play with a walkthrough or even just watch a pseudo-bro play through the game for you on youtube if that's the only way you can appreciate it.

[Anonymous No.4945263]

>>4945113

I find this to always be a weird argument.

I completed the game when I was 10 or so without maps or anything.

Did later find out that my uncle kept detailed hand drawn maps. Some day I'll find them in a drawer somewhere and post them on here. They were super awesome.

[Anonymous No.4945265]

>>4945216
He's just trying to boost his ego by pretending to be better at vidiyagaems than you, don't bother with retards like that

[Anonymous No.4945315]

>>4945229
Perhaps. But unlike many other games from that era this one doesn't hold up.

[babbage's gramps !RATGzMALLY No.4945635]

>>4945315
Well I think a whole lot of people would disagree with you.

[Anonymous No.4945658]

I beat it as a kid and I didn't have much help. Maybe Nintendo Power hints but that's all.

The only games that truly eluded me with their cryptic nature were Simon's Quest and Super Pitfall.

[Anonymous No.4946164]

>>4945315
Good luck getting anyone to agree that Zelda 1 or Metroid 1 aged like milk. Everyone here is far too blinded by nostalgia to see how badly designed these games are.

[Anonymous No.4946182]

>>4945113
Back when games were tiny and cost more than today's equivalent of a Benjamin, they had to be difficult to get the money's worth of gameplay out of them. We'd figure things out through trial and error, take notes, draw maps.

[Anonymous No.4946185]

>>4945113
Game design hadn't advanced very far. There's definitely something better you can be playing right now.

[Anonymous No.4946187]

It's primitive compared to AlttP and LA but cryptic? hell no, there are far more cryptic games on the NES

[Anonymous No.4946194]

>>4946187
>there are more cryptic games on the NES
>that means this one is NOT cryptic

Nice logic there, bucko.

[Anonymous No.4946197]

>>4945113
I'm gonna come right out and say it: Early NES games are bad.

[Anonymous No.4946198]

>>4945263
Zelda is isn't particularly interesting to map. Metal Gear, now there's a good map.

[Anonymous No.4946203]

>>4946198
looks like something i'd find in my high school notebook

[Anonymous No.4946209]

>>4946164
Metroid has aged much better than Zelda in my onion. If you can't keep track of the layout, you can draw a map, which is fun.

[Anonymous No.4946212]

>>4946197
Zelda is a late NES game. Everything before Super Mario Bros\. is early. Or maybe you could categorize them by whether they have a MMC

[Anonymous No.4946220]

>>4946212
Maybe I should rephrase: Most all NES games are bad.

[Anonymous No.4946221]

>>4946164
they didn't age like milk because they always were bad games

[Anonymous No.4946239]

>So how are you supposed to complete this shit without prior knowledge of all the important secrets?
If I could manage it as a kid, anyone can.
Most important secrets have visual cues like bushes that stand out or are in the way, dead-end alcoves or rock faces that protrude, etc... I managed it by hitting anything suspicious looking. Most of the bullshit secrets with no visual cues at all were only for completion and you could still find those by autistically bombing every screen. And you sure as fuck had the time as a kid. Doubly so when you most likely only had a few games.
>use candle on every single tree (even though there's nothing indicating that candle works like that)
The first thing I did upon getting the candle was try to set things on fire. I refuse to believe this is an even remotely uncommon reaction. Bush blocking the way in the forest? Fire. Four bushes conspicuously arranged in a square? Leave and re-enter the screen four times. With fire.

[Anonymous No.4946245]

>>4946221

People thought they were good back before they knew any better.

[Anonymous No.4946252]

>>4945113
We used to get stuck in games and give up for days, weeks, months before figuring out how to progress. It was fun.

[Anonymous No.4946253]

>>4945658
>Simon's Quest
I was pretty desensitized to bad translation by the time I played that one. I didn't have much difficulty picking out the gist of what the niplish meant. The only real problem was that I ended up doing some pointless experimenting on account of the NPCs that straight-up lie to you.

[Anonymous No.4946258]

>>4945184

[Anonymous No.4946260]

>>4946245
people had shit taste then

[Anonymous No.4946458]

>>4946258
>press A to go inside

[Anonymous No.4946464]

A LOT of old games are bad with this but honestly Zelda 1 isn't one of them.

[Anonymous No.4946515]

>>4945229
I don't know anyone who actually enjoyed spamming the candle on bushes throughout the map.

[Anonymous No.4946523]

>>4945113
I'm pretty sure the only thing in LoZ that I needed help with was the path you need to take to get through the lost woods. It's a fairly easy game overall though.

[Anonymous No.4946554]

>>4946515
You just do that between setting Octoroks on fire.

[Anonymous No.4946561]

>>4946554
it isn't fun

[Anonymous No.4946568]

>>4946561
bulldozing critters with the red candle is way more fun than stabbing or shooting beams.

[Anonymous No.4946710]

>>4946164
>guaranteed replies, the post
Sorry you don't like Metroid and LoZ anon. You do realize that earlier top down action adventures and non-linear platformers are even harder to figure out where to go, right? It's not even that bad once you actually try to explore and remember where things are with any tool you would want to use.

[Anonymous No.4946726]

Back in the day you were not supposed to 'complete' a game.

[Anonymous No.4946738]

You didn't play it, when it was released, so you don't understand how gaming was different back then.

You would spend some of your gaming sessions just exploring the overworld, which felt huge at the time. When going through the same place many times, you would start to notice objects that might have secrets in them. You weren't finding secrets in calculating way, you were finding them as exploring the world. You were not supposed to bomb every wall and burn every tree. You were supposed to notice them while exploring. And if you couldn't know how to progress, you would play it again months later and try again.

Also the game was a huge social experience. If you didn't find the secrets, someone on your school would and share them.

[Anonymous No.4946997]

>>4946710
>there were worse games so that means these games aren't bad

That's not how it works, man. It doesn't matter that Simon's Quest is a worse game than Metroid 1. Metroid 1 is still a bad game. At best it just shows how fucking low the bar is for games like this on the NES.

[Anonymous No.4947029]

>>4946738
I played lot's of games back then. But our region didn't have Zelda. Decided to see what the hype was about and surprise - it's a mediocre game.

And 'noticing' secrets? Like gut feeling? Sorry, that's not much of a gameplay. Besides, there were already open world games back then, games that did open world much better ()Ultima series for example).

As far as I'm concerned first zelda game is hailed because of huge Nintendo marketing and fanboys, which got even worse during your console wars.

[Anonymous No.4947043]

All you need to beat the game is the instruction manual and listening to the old men in the caves.

[Anonymous No.4947046]

>>4946523
But a lady literally tells you how to get through the Lost Woods.

[Anonymous No.4947052]

>>4946561
The thing retards like you don't realize is that people didn't play this game simply to complete a dumb checklist of quests. People played the game because the gameplay was fun (see: >>4946568). Bombing walls in the overworld and burning bushes was never your primary activity. Unless you were a literal drooling retard you never got so stuck that you had to resort to this kind of thing. You just checked a different bush every time you passed through an area. Often, the secret was hidden in the first couple of places a normal player would be likely to check.

The only bomb doors (for Level-9) and burned bushes (for Level-8) that are actually required to progress are so obvious you have to be literally retarded to not find them.

Wall bombs in dungeons can usually be predicted by looking at the map.

>>4946164
Metroid 1 is decent and was ambitious and innovative, but isn't a masterpiece. Legend of Zelda is still fantastic though and people who think otherwise clearly don't know shit about good game design.

The problem with Metroid is that the actual gameplay gets very tedious. Exploring becomes a chore because enemies respawn instantly the moment you move off the screen so going anywhere requires effort. After awhile it becomes mind-numbing having to overcome the same annoying obstacles countless times while backtracking looking for shit, and enemies start getting the better of you through sheer attrition or constant framerate drops. (Fast respawn is good when you need to grind health I guess)

The level design itself is just OK, although the interconnected world was amazing at the time and there are plenty of interesting areas. But particularly annoying are the rather long vertical segments with nothing but the same pattern of platforms over and over right near the beginning of the game. If you're a new player trying to get your bearings, this is a terrible first impression.

Zelda 1 has none of those problems.

[Anonymous No.4947069]

>>4947029
I see zero evidence you have actually played the game. None of your criticisms are well-informed.

[Anonymous No.4947071]

>>4946997
>Metroid 1 is still a bad game.
It's not great but it's not a bad game. It's at least decent.

[Anonymous No.4947072]

As the average age of what is considered "retro" in the eyes of kids goes up, older masterpieces will be shat on because people won't be able to understand them.

[Anonymous No.4947080]

>>4947069
You sure showed me.

[Anonymous No.4947114]

>>4947072
Masterpieces stand the test of time, Zelda (1st game) doesn't.

[Anonymous No.4947119]

>>4947114
>Zelda (1st game) doesn't.
diaf

>>4947052
No fire for you. You hit the nail.

[Anonymous No.4947136]

>>4947080
Post any screenshot you want, it doesn't validate ignorant arguments. The criticism itself should reflect more knowledge and understanding than can be gleaned from the blurb on the box.

[Anonymous No.4947139]

>>4947052
you're autistic if you like checking every bush on the overworld. I have no clue how the designers made sure it was "the first couple of bushes" for you but whatver. no one fucking likes burning all of the bushes.

[Anonymous No.4947142]

>>4947052
>Zelda 1 has none of those problems.

Zelda also becomes mind-numbingly boring (farming rupees is so much fun). You can easily miss an item from dungeon and then half an hour later you have to retrack every dungeon and see what you missed.
You are actively discouraged from touching gravestones and stone sentries(dangerous and killing them does not give anything), but then the game hides extremely important items in those objects. It's NOT a good design.
>>4947136
Whatever. It's not like brainwashed Nintendo fanboys are able to accept any form of criticism.

[Anonymous No.4947146]

>>4947142
>You are actively discouraged from touching gravestones and stone sentries(dangerous and killing them does not give anything)
Yes, god help an important item in a cave might be guarded by a nasty enemy. You should just be able to easily get the items! Why have challenge at all? Hell, just play a phone app instead! All the challenge any idiot modern "gamer" could ever ask for.

[Anonymous No.4947150]

In whose mind is it not obvious that this bush is hiding something?

[babbage's gramps !RATGzMALLY No.4947159]

Isn't dungeon 8 the only bush you absolutely have to burn and it's a pretty suspiciously placed bush and by then you have the red candle and have also been hinted to burn bushes?

[Anonymous No.4947162]

>>4947146
Triforce parts are guarded by "nasty" enemies.
Usable items are usually hidden, and in later dungeons they are hidden behind walls that you have to bomb. Good luck knowing which wall to bomb (or that walls are destructible in the first place).
>>4947150
How are you supposed to know to use candle on it? Oh, right, buy our Nintendo ™ strategy guide or call our help line. Pay dosh to understand what the game wants from you. Brilliant gaming design (from a profit oriented perspective).

[Anonymous No.4947167]

>>4947162
It was in the instruction manual that came with every copy of the game.

What's the point in trying to argue about things like this? You can dislike a game without lying about why you think it's bad.

[Anonymous No.4947178]

>>4947167
It's not in a manual that I've downloaded (first google result):

https://legendsoflocalization.com/media/the...of-zelda/manuals/ZeldaNESManual.pdf

I guess that's where the biggest problem stems from.

[Anonymous No.4947179]

>>4947162
The whole "made obtuse to sell strategy guides" is modern criticism. Post a pic showing an ID that you're over 30 or eat shit, child.

[Anonymous No.4947180]

You ask your older cousins who get info from other kids in school

[Anonymous No.4947214]

If these fools have this much trouble with Zelda, I bet they'd never have done any fatalities in MK.
Modern gaming and the internet have spoiled people rotten. They can't even stand not having autosave these days.

[Anonymous No.4947260]

>>4947214
>If these fools have this much trouble with Zelda, I bet they'd never have done any fatalities in MK.

That makes no sense. Neither of those two games have anything to do with each other. MK was also a whole generation after Zelda and everyone and their grandmother were doing a fatality at one point.

Man these guys who pretend new people getting stuck on LoZ are "fools" or spoiled are the worst. It was never that type of game you could just sit and play through without an instruction manual.

[Anonymous No.4947261]

>>4947142
>It's not like brainwashed Nintendo fanboys are able to accept any form of criticism.
Believe what you want. The undeniable fact is that your criticisms are terrible and lazy. Complaining about burning bushes and bombs is the very top of the list of "retarded shit I can say to troll Zelda 1 fans."

>farming rupees is so much fun
Killing enemies is fun. You don't have to farm rupees if you find it boring. There are only a few things you really need to buy anyway. You don't NEED to buy the blue ring the moment you find that vendor.

In any case, the best spot for farming rupees is the graveyard where you spawn a whole slew of fast-moving ghosts then take out the boss ghost to kill them all in one shot. I found that fun, your mileage may vary but in that case your criticism should be directed at the combat mechanics not the structure of the game. Of course I also didn't sit there doing it over and over until I maxed out my rupees I just did it until I got bored then moved on.

>You are actively discouraged from touching gravestones and stone sentries(dangerous and killing them does not give anything)
>It's NOT a good design.
lol what an idiot. Freeing the stone sentries is satisfying and killing them is fun even though they don't give rewards. I used to love just touching all of them to see how many I could get going on the screen at once. And if you're not a shitter and just need to check them, you can kill them one-by-one very easily. Meanwhile graveyard ghosts are very rewarding and the fucking manual even tells you how it works (which if you're not retarded is easy to figure out for yourself also).

Again if you find the combat too difficult or you just don't like it for some reason, that's one thing. But there's nothing wrong with the structure of the game or the world layout and challenges assuming you enjoy the combat.

[Anonymous No.4947273]

>>4947260
>Man these guys who pretend new people getting stuck on LoZ are "fools" or spoiled are the worst.
That only happens when said fools open with ignorant bitching about about bombs and candles and the kind of shocking mental density on display here: >>4947162


>It was never that type of game you could just sit and play through without an instruction manual.
Except it was. Lots of us rented it from a video store where the manual would have been stolen or ripped to shreds-- or gotten it as a hand-me-down from an older sibling or friend who had lost the manual, etc.

Seriously what else is the fucking candle going to be for? When you equip it and fire it off, it emits a conveniently bush-sized flame. It does not take more than rudimentary reasoning to try it on a bush. Even if you think it's just a weapon, sooner or later you'll accidentally burn a bush with a secret.

>>4947162
>Good luck knowing which wall to bomb (or that walls are destructible in the first place).
Put down the crack pipe and just pay attention to the game, dumbass. Look at the map in your inventory and see if there's a suspicious blank spot where you think a room might be. Even better if you actually have the dungeon map which can confirm the presence of the room. And even if you're too dumb to figure this out and have to resort to brute force methods, there's a finite number of bare walls in any dungeon anyway. Most rooms already have at least 2 doors.

[Anonymous No.4947281]

>>4947261
> Freeing the stone sentries is satisfying and killing them is fun even though they don't give rewards.

What you find "fun" others find boring. The combat in the game is extremely basic and not average. It doesn't pass as a masterpiece like Nintento/Zelda fanboys proclaim.

Your post reads: "I had fun in childhood when I had not developed any taste and was susceptible to Nintendo marketing".

>Meanwhile graveyard ghosts are very rewarding and the fucking manual even tells you how it works

Not manual, but "Maps and strategies" pamphlet. It's not included in most scans online, and I highly doubt it's included when you buy it off ebay, or in garage stores. And that's a shame because it hides a lot of critical information about core gameplay mechanics.

[Anonymous No.4947283]

>>4947273
I feel like we seem to forget that Japanese people made Zelda, and so designed it for a genuinely superior Japanese intellect. Jap kids aren't as fucking retarded as western kids after all.

[Anonymous No.4947290]

You think zelda is bad, try Legacy of the Wizard, where you not only need to use the right character, but also use the right combination of items to progress through a dungeon requiring lots of trial and error finding random fake blocks.

The manual tells you what each item does, but that's about it. It leaves the rest of the game up to you.

[Anonymous No.4947291]

>>4947281
>What you find "fun" others find boring.
Others such as? It's clear you lack the intellect and skill to articulate criticism of the combat and other core gameplay mechanics so instead resort to bitching about bombs, candles and farming rupees; which is the same shit every lazy underage shitter complains about.

[Anonymous No.4947314]

>>4947291
Chill off with the insults, Nintendo boy. Others as in other people.
It seems like you are unable to accept criticism of Zelda games, most probably due to your emotional attachment and/or that you view criticism of Zelda as an attack on your childhood.

> It does not take more than rudimentary reasoning to try it on a bush.

You try it on a random bush and... nothing happens. And as a person with a superior intellect you deduce that the game tells you to try it on other bushes, because, again, nothing happened.

[Anonymous No.4947315]

People who think the original Zelda is too hard and confusing should be forced to play Deadly Towers instead.

[Anonymous No.4947336]

>>4947314
>It seems like you are unable to accept criticism of Zelda games
Your criticism is laughably bad.

>You try it on a random bush and... nothing happens.
So you keep playing the game without burning bushes and mostly just miss out on paying a bunch of door repair charges and some free rupees and medicine shops. All entirely optional. If you make it all the way to Level-8 and still don't wonder if maybe the candle thing might be useful to burn down a bush I really don't know what to say. At that point if you're that fucking stupid just look up a guide online.

I played this game without the manual when I was 8 years old and the only things I had trouble with was finding the entrance to Level-7 and how to get past the "Grumble, grumble..." guy. This game wasn't designed for people with learned helplessness.

[Anonymous No.4947360]

>>4945113
Would you rather pay fifty 1986-1987 dollars and finish it in one session?

[Anonymous No.4947442]

>>4945113
> /v/ tier bait post

I'll bite. The game came with a partial map, a list of items and their uses, and a book with mechanics and hints. I beat the game over a few weeks as a young kid (7 or 8), and without any additional aid such as Nintendo Power. If you have trouble as an adult then you need to step back and consider how much newer games have coddled you to ineptitude.

Also, the game holds up fine today. It doesn't have a quest tracker or achivements, but critical thinkers should be able to tame a game made for children without these things.

[Anonymous No.4947462]

>I keep making the same stupid thread and nobody can stop me!

[Anonymous No.4947468]

>>4947442
>critical thinkers

This game tests patience and not intellect. If I want to play games that test my cognitive abilities I'll play actual puzzle games with good design rather than "throw random shit till it sticks" approach.

Just another overrrated Nintendo game.

[Anonymous No.4947472]

>>4947462
sorry dude, never made this thread before. Try to think of it this way: if it's not one person who makes the same thread but a lot of people and they make same points then perhaps there is something in this game that doesn't live up to the Nintendo hype

[Anonymous No.4947482]

>>4947468
>"throw random shit till it sticks" approach.
If that's how you played Legend of Zelda it just means you either have no cognitive abilities or can't be bothered to use them appropriately.

Zelda is not a puzzle game, it's an action-adventure. Only a few of the levels have puzzles that are moderately difficult (until the 2nd quest, anyway).

If you're too stupid to use deductive reasoning to optimize bomb placement in dungeons, you'll have to spend time farming wasted resources. If you are too much of a shitter to beat a given dungeon at your character's current strength, you can wander the overworld looking for power-ups or easier dungeons.

[Anonymous No.4947484]

>>4947472
>they make same points
They don't make points they whine about the stupidest bullshit imaginable and are always completely wrecked and unable to defend their arguments when challenged, and resort to "u just cant take criticism" deflections.

[Anonymous No.4947504]

>>4947482
There is no deductive skill involved in the game. You farm bombs, you blow up random walls to move forward. Or you don't. What an engaging gameplay.

Especially fun when you missed the magical key and get stuck in 9th dungeon in a room where the only way to get out is to open a locked door with no keys. Such a masterpiece.

>>4947484
Calling criticism of the game "stupidest bullshit imaginable" is not "challenging an argument". The only ones deflecting are Zelda fans who immediately resort to "lelelelel you are stupid" retarded ad hominems.

[Anonymous No.4947510]

>>4947504
In 1986, and for several years after, it WAS a masterpiece. Like it or not. And honestly, compared to 99% of the trite released nowadays, it is still a masterpiece.

[Anonymous No.4947515]

>>4947510
And I already said that it was a game of it's time. It was relevant in 1986. Today it's mediocre and frustratingly obtuse. It's important only from a historical perspective, but it's no masterpiece.

There are plenty of good games you can play from that era. But Zelda is a game you may enjoy only because of nostalgia.

[Anonymous No.4947530]

>>4947515
>Today it's mediocre and frustratingly obtuse.
Depends what you like. I for example like exploring and making a map of the world in the game. I play it once every few years, once I've mostly forgotten the finer details of locations, so I can remake the map and explore, etc. I find its simplicity combined with cryptic nonsense to be mentally stimulating. Far more than playing actual puzzle games due to the more action-oriented gameplay.

Imagine if everyone liked the same shit. We'd never have anything to fight about and life would be a complete waste of time.

[Anonymous No.4947542]

>>4947504
>You farm bombs, you blow up random walls to move forward. Or you don't. What an engaging gameplay.

1. You are in a room with 3 bare walls (north, east, and west)
2. You don't have the map yet.
3. The map is in the room to the east, which you saw because you were able to enter that room from a different direction, but couldn't reach the map from there.
4. So you bomb the east wall first, retrieve the map, and return to the original room which now has only 2 bare walls remaining.
5. The map shows a room to the north, and empty space to the west.

If you are a retard, you just mindlessly bomb all the walls and then run to /vr/ bitching and whining like a little faggot that it's random gameplay. Everyone else applies that logic consistently and finds their bombs work most of the time.

[Anonymous No.4947554]

>>4946198

I really enjoyed the Zelda 1 map personally, I thought it was well designed, Metroid, not so much desu.

[Anonymous No.4947558]

>>4946258

honestly though, this is legit what some of these retards want.

Where's the waypoints on the map tho?

[Zelda BS snes classic No.4947580]

does anyone know how to make zelda bs work in a snes classic?

[Anonymous No.4947592]

>>4947580
Find HDMI cable, set laptop next to tv, enjoy emulation superior to what that mini ARM box does :-)

[Anonymous No.4947601]

>>4947052
>Wall bombs in dungeons can usually be predicted by looking at the map.
This. Figuring out where to wall bomb in LoZ was even easier than in Binding of Issac today, yet tons of people have no trouble with the latter right now.

[Anonymous No.4947605]

>>4947601
Brainlets don't play new rogue-lites. They become retro wankers because new games are too hard.

[Anonymous No.4947608]

To be honest here...between the original and Adventure of Link, I'd rather play Adventure of Link.

Maybe I'm one of those weirdoes that prefers the game people write off as being unnecessarily hard or just the black sheep of the franchise for...some reason.
But honestly, I feel it plays better. The combat is a lot more enjoyable, the magic system is really useful, and even though it has its own issues...at least I can mostly deal with them.

>>4946209
Yeah, that's great. If you don't mind getting lost in corridors that look identical, if not copied verbatim, all over the place.

Metroid on NES aged like milk without a doubt. Between it and the GBA remake, I'll play the GBA remake any day of the week, especially since it gives you a map itself.

>>4946187
If obsessively bombing each and every wall just to find your way through the game and burning some random-ass bush for no discernable reason isn't cryptic...
Yes, there are more cryptic games on the NES. But don't pretend for a second that means the original Zelda isn't cryptic.

[Anonymous No.4947660]

>>4947580
This game looks great through a Wii + ypbpr

[Anonymous No.4947676]

>>4945229
>People LIKED their games being tedious back then
And they walked FIFTEEN miles uphill both ways to school, huh

[Anonymous No.4947689]

>>4947660
Ya it works on my wii but I wanted one for the snes classic as im gifting one away

[Anonymous No.4947692]

>>4947689
Ah. Well, look up guides on how to hack the SNES, and go from there then I'd say. I don't recall it being too hard to do.

[Anonymous No.4947696]

>>4947676
How else would you have made it last long enough to be worth $114?

[Anonymous No.4947719]

>>4945216
>That's bullshit design
>extremely boring and time consuming
It's not time-consuming, though. It takes maybe 10 seconds to drop 8 bombs on a screen looking for secrets, which is enough to clear that screen of potential secrets for as long as you own or play the game. If there IS a secret on the screen you'll often find it after the 2nd or 3rd bomb.

I'd guess there are maybe 60 map screens in the game with rock tiles and a substantial number of those map locations already have a doorway. So let's say 40 map screens with potentially bombable tiles. When tiles are adjacent, you can check 2 tiles with 1 bomb. There are only two map screens with more than 16 bombable tiles, and both of those involve conspicuous rocks (including the one with death mountain). For the sake of argument let's say you can, on average, clear a map screen with 5 bombs.

40 x 5 = 200 bombs. At 0.8 seconds per bomb placed, that's a total of 4 minutes and 9 seconds spent actually placing bombs to check the entire overworld map. If you expand that to include the entire map and all screens that already have an entrance (such as the entrance to Level-1) you'll need another 100 bombs and another 2 minutes. So, 6 whole fucking minutes of the game actually spent checking for secret doors in the overworld if you don't make any reasonable guesses about the underlying mechanics.

The overwhelming amount of time, then, would be spent collecting the bombs and deciding which spot to try next, which simply requires that you just go play the game. If you just wander around looking for normal doorways (not hidden ones) you'll encounter plenty of enemies that drop bombs as well as most of the primary game content (the dungeon levels).

[Anonymous No.4947824]

>>4947608
>If obsessively bombing each and every wall just to find your way through the game and burning some random-ass bush for no discernable reason isn't cryptic..
I agree that Zelda 1 is cryptic but it's completely wrong to suggest you have to obsessively bomb each and every wall to "find your way through the game." That's part of why Zelda 1 is so great and has good lessons to teach anyone willing to stop being a faggot for 2 seconds and pay attention to how the game is designed.

There is no need at all to bomb holes in walls at all for the first 4 dungeons in the game. The only time bombs are actually required before Level-5 is to use it as a weapon to defeat the boss Dodongo in Level-2. Yet, every one of the first 4 levels has bombable walls that lead to shortcuts or non-critical treasure like rupees. In the first 3 levels, these walls can be predicted 100% by the dungeon map. In level 4, it's a hidden (but very conspicuous) room bombable from all 4 directions. This gives the player plenty of time to get comfortable with all the relevant mechanics without ever being REQUIRED to use them to progress.

In Level-5, the bombable walls are a fairly easy guess even without the easily-obtained map, but if you miss them, the game sets a trap for the player that will force them into a room with no exit, just bomb-dropping mummies (one mummy is actually carrying a 4-pack of bombs). The only way out of the room is to bomb the walls. One wall takes you back to the beginning, the other wall takes you to the path towards the recorder that is required to defeat the boss of the level.

Level-5 is also the first dungeon where looking at the map doesn't give you 100% success rate on your bomb tries. Out of 10 walls that have rooms on the other side, only 5 can be blown up. (brute-force retards who don't look at the map, meanwhile, have like 40 walls to check)

[Anonymous No.4947851]

>>4945126
What actually comes with the original game? Just the map and manual or anything else?

[Anonymous No.4947861]

People born after the 1990s have no right to comment on NES games.

[Anonymous No.4947873]

>>4947851
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNhP0vBXH04

>>4947824
That's all good points, but you are making them because you already know where those secrets are. Every secret and every mechanic in the game is painfully obvious once you know about it. But when you are going in blind you don't have that knowledge.

[Anonymous No.4947895]

>>4947873
You learn those secrets over weeks or months of intermittently playing a cartridge that cost fiftteen hours of minimum wage.

[Anonymous No.4947932]

Pic related came with every copy of Zelda 1. It's a map, that's 80% filled in for you, along with markers showing you the important secrets on each screen. You have to draw the rest and fill in the blanks based on the hints given to you in-game.

It also came with complete maps for the first two dungeons, tips for all the rest (including bombing walls to find secret paths, pushing blocks to uncover stairwells, and how to get past "Grumble Grumble"), and a small bestiary showing what enemies are more likely to drop what items.

The only cryptic things you probably aren't going to figure out on your own are:

>you need a certain amount of hearts to get the White/Magical swords
>you need to find the Silver Arrows to beat Ganon

Neither of these two things are explained anywhere in the game, or in the manual, and they're sadly due to bad translation, because the Japanese version DOES tell you those things.

[Anonymous No.4947952]

>>4947504
>Especially fun when you missed the magical key and get stuck in 9th dungeon in a room where the only way to get out is to open a locked door with no keys. Such a masterpiece.
Even if you somehow "missed" the Magical Key, you do realize that there are shops that sell more keys. And even if you didn't get more keys before attempting the final dungeon and got stuck in a room with a one way door and only locked doors going forward (I don't think that happens until the second quest and even then I don't remember) you can either press the reset button or Up + A on controller two to bring up the save screen.

[Anonymous No.4947957]

>>4946458

[Anonymous No.4947987]

>>4947932
>Neither of these two things are explained anywhere in the game, or in the manual, and they're sadly due to bad translation, because the Japanese version DOES tell you those things.
No it doesn't.

[Anonymous No.4947998]

>>4947932
>you need to find the Silver Arrows to beat Ganon
Well, it sort of does do that. Its not like there are tons of combinations to try...

[Anonymous No.4948012]

>>4947932
The translation needed to be more difficult because cartridges are more expensive than a copy written to a proprietary floppy disk via kiosk.

[Anonymous No.4948024]

>>4947873
>That's all good points, but you are making them because you already know where those secrets are.
Except my whole point was that you don't need to know any of the secrets for the entire first half of the game. You just wander around killing stuff and seeing what's in each cave you find. You'll find a lot of bombs as you go, which you can use to kill enemies, look for secrets in the overworld, or bomb walls in dungeons. But you're not required to use them until Level-5, at which point the game making it very obvious what you need to do.

Using the map to avoid wasting bombs does not require foreknowledge it only requires logic and paying attention to obvious game mechanics.

[Anonymous No.4948031]

>>4947987
Yes it does.

>“Look for the arrows in Death Mountain.”
No equivalent in English.
>“If you can use this masterfully then I will let you have it.”
In other words, if you're worthy. You have to figure out what "worthy" means.

[Anonymous No.4948095]

>>4947895
Boy do I have a deal for you.

[Anonymous No.4948105]

>>4947957
>What's the fuck

[Anonymous No.4948114]

>>4948095
I enjoy roguelikes and any game that demands patience :-)

[Anonymous No.4948169]

>>4947150
The mind 99% of the participation trophy generation

[Anonymous No.4948416]

So I just hacked myself infinite bombs and went to every location on the overworld map with rock tiles (except for the two locations only accessible by raft) and placed a bomb on every single bombable tile, sequentially, until a secret was found. If I found a secret, I stopped dropping bombs and moved to the next location.

I didn't record it because I don't have a setup for that right now, you'll just have to take my word for it.

I dropped 259 bombs in 27 minutes. Most of that 27 minutes involved killing and evading enemies while I was dropping the bombs. It wasn't even boring and I died once from a Lionel on death mountain. That is included in the time as well.

Bombing overworld locations is not time-consuming or tedious. What takes time is actually finding bombs, which is most effectively done by playing through the game-- wandering the overworld killing blue octorocs and moblins and venturing into dungeons where bombs are a commonly found treasure.

If you don't like wandering around the overworld killing enemies and taking their loot; and you don't like venturing into dungeons to see what treasure you might find there, then yeah you're not going to like the NES Legend of Zelda. Either way, stop LARPing at being a game critic and pretending like this is bad game design.

[Anonymous No.4948475]

>>4948416
You can't figure out how to download OBS or such?

[Anonymous No.4948486]

>>4948475
Not in the 45 minutes it took me to run the experiment and write up the results, no.

[Anonymous No.4948501]

>>4947142
>You are actively discouraged from touching gravestones and stone sentries(dangerous and killing them does not give anything), but then the game hides extremely important items in those objects. It's NOT a good design.
The fuck are you talking about ghosts are a fantastic way to stock up. Get the first one you wake up one hit from dead and then wake up a shitload more while keeping track of the first one. Then one more hit and the whole screen is full of goodies.

[Anonymous No.4948507]

>>4947178
I don't know where that version of the manual is from but the US one specifically has this tip >>4947167
And even if it didn't the candle makes a huge exactly-tile-sized fire when you use it. EVERYONE who actually played the game in the 80s tried to burn shit with it.

[Anonymous No.4948519]

>>4948416
Did you bomb the middle of each tile, or did you actually take advantage of the bomb's blast radius to hit two tiles each time?

[Anonymous No.4948582]

>>4948507
> EVERYONE who actually played the game in the 80s tried to burn shit with it
Because it was a widely known fact about the game. I went in totally blind, without any outside knowledge,
>>4948416
>Bombing overworld locations is not time-consuming or tedious. What takes time is actually finding bombs
Part of bombing IS finding bombs. So yeah, it is consuming. Now do that without hacks.
>If you don't like wandering around the overworld killing enemies and taking their loot
Yep, it's not fun. It's repetitive and tedious.
> and you don't like venturing into dungeons to see what treasure you might find there
Actually I liked dungeons, especially some bosses.

[Anonymous No.4948590]

>>4948582
>Because it was a widely known fact about the game

Bullshit. I was the only kid I knew with Zelda and I did that too.

[Anonymous No.4948606]

>>4948582
Just because you're an uncreative twat doesn't mean everyone else is.

[Anonymous No.4948621]

>>4947142
> You are actively discouraged from touching gravestones and stone sentries(dangerous and killing them does not give anything), but then the game hides extremely important items in those objects. It's NOT a good design.
The entrance to the best weapon to the game has deterrence/danger, and you think that's BAD game design? Christ dude, get some perspective. They even tell you to search the graveyard. Also this

[Anonymous No.4948626]

>>4947178
I think it's on the map insert. Either way I remember it as well.

[Anonymous No.4948642]

>>4948606
And here we have another example of an insufferable Zelda fanbase.

[Anonymous No.4949184]

>>4948519
I hit 2 tiles per bomb, except where I fucked up because I was rushing or trying to evade enemies.

[Anonymous No.4949189]

>>4948642
Give me a break. The Zelda critics in this thread (assuming there's even more than one) are all being massive faggots and deserve every bit of shit they get.

[Anonymous No.4949205]

>>4947162
>How are you supposed to know to use candle on it?

>candle creates fire
>somehow not thinking "I wonder if I can burn the thing that's in my way"

[Anonymous No.4949252]

>>4948582
Developers in the 1980s unfortunately didn't take into consideration the below average problem-solving capabilities of people who couldn't figure out that fire burns things. It was a very cruel time. Many children suffered.

[Anonymous No.4949254]

>>4945113
grow a pair, pussy

[Anonymous No.4949259]

>>4948012
I'll take this bait: Old school translations were bad via a combination of Japanese people translating their own games or under-qualified people doing it with a J-to-E dictionary. Getting a dedicated expert was a rarity and was not cost efficient for most of these distributors. Add time constraints to that mix and you have a party.

[Anonymous No.4949261]

>>4949254
Metroidfag here. What are you referring to? If it's the map then I yawn.

[Anonymous No.4949298]

>>4949261

How about all the items hidden in breakable walls and ceilings that have no indication that they're breakable? Better go shoot every fucking ceiling tile in the game in case there's a path to a key item up there.

[Anonymous No.4949302]

>>4949189
On the contrary. Zelda is a boring mediocre game that doesn't deserve the praise it gets from hardcore Zelda fanboys.
>>4949252
It burns only very few select tiles. Every other bush/tree is completely immune to fire.
>>4949254
That's a much better game to be sure.

[Anonymous No.4949304]

>>4948582
>I went in totally blind, without any outside knowledge
Which isn't usually how people played games then. Most people could figure it out even without reading the manual but for any who couldn't, they'd just ask a friend. If you reach Level-8 and haven't figured out the candle burns bushes, NOT going online to find the answer is the retarded option.

>Part of bombing IS finding bombs
Bombs are found commonly if you play the game like a normal player. The secrets hidden behind rock walls are never gameplay critical (and even penalize you maybe 20% of the time), so should not ever be your primary focus. It's something to try when you're stumped or have spare time and bombs. If you don't find every secret in the game, don't sweat it.

The way the system is designed is that the player must wager a resource to check a rock tile. Sometimes that risk is rewarded and you discover a secret. In order for that payoff to feel satisfying when it succeeds, the default expectation must be that the wager will fail. ALTTP removes this wagering system entirely signaling bomb locations with wall cracks and giving you tons of bombs. This meant discovering secrets in ALTTP was much less exciting than in the original game (ALTTP compensated for this by having better rewards).

>Now do that without hacks.
The way to do it without hacks just is to play the game, dropping a few bombs every time you are in the overworld and have some spares, keeping track of where you've bombed so you don't try the same tile twice. If I missed a couple of secrets? Who cares? Literally the only critical one is Level-9, which is hinted at and very obvious. Both hearts are easy to guess as well. The rest are shops, rupees, and grumpy men.

>Yep, [exploring and killing enemies] not fun. It's repetitive and tedious.
Well, that's what the game is. Moving through the world killing enemies and looking for secrets is why people enjoy the game. Maybe you'd prefer a Visual Novel.

[Anonymous No.4949306]

>>4949298
I don't know, man. You have to try to ignore how some walls have more camera space than other. I do wonder though, not just about Metroid, but other cryptic games: Do you people -actually- X every Y to get out of progress blocks? Even as a dumb kid, I've never had to do that with any game. It makes me think those who do that are terrible with time management/process of reasonable elimination (and that reminds me of people who complain that they can't figure out adventure game combinations).

[Anonymous No.4949307]

>>4949302
> hardcore Zelda fanboys.
I'm not even a hardcore Zelda fanboy, I play mostly other games. Zelda 1 has plenty of flaws and weak points, but "needing prior knowledge" is not one of them.

[Anonymous No.4949312]

>>4949306
I don't think so. I think what happens is that they read an article by a game journalist or watch some youtuber who doesn't know their ass from a hole in the ground criticize "trial&error gameplay." At that point they consider themselves an expert on game design and go online to try and troll and show off (usually on /v/).

[Anonymous No.4949325]

>>4949312
>>4949306
Also, my problem with Metroid isn't that its cryptic. What I don't like is the constantly respawning enemies and long, repetitive vertical segments. My typical pattern would look something like this:

1. Run through new area
2. Take some hits as I figure out how to beat these new enemies
3. With some practice, I can get through the area unscathed
4. And get through it again from the other direction
5. And again
6. And again x 5
7. And now I'm getting kind of tired of repeating it, not caring or concentrating as much and making dumb mistakes and taking more hits because I really just want to get where I'm going.
8. Eventually fall into the sand or something and die.
9. Respawn at start of level.
10. Realize I've stopped caring and shut off the game.

[Anonymous No.4949329]

>>4949298
They're usually behind dirt/sand/bubble tiles, not hard materials.

[Anonymous No.4949337]

>>4949329

But it's not like those tiles are always destructible. Usually destructible tiles are among a myriad other identical tiles that all can't be broken except this one arbitrary tile for no good reason.

[Anonymous No.4949345]

>>4949325
Sounds like you'd enjoy more recent AAA games.

[Anonymous No.4949350]

>>4949345
I like Zelda 1, where evading enemies can be done quickly after a bit if practice. I like Dark Souls where enemies only respawn if you rest at the bonfire to regain your HP/estus/etc.

Not sure what "AAA Games" you're talking about. I've played lots of games with backtracking and lots of difficult games and none of them have the attrition dynamic that Metroid has.

[Anonymous No.4949361]

I didn't play Metroid until the 00s and I thought it was pretty good :-)

[Anonymous No.4949404]

Oh man, I'm pretty dumb and even I beat it back in the day. On your drive home you could read the manual and if you got stuck you could talk about it with friends at school. Zelda 1 is NOT a cryptic game. You don't need to find the majority of secrets to beat it.

Metroid 1 is good but tedious, at least for me.

We even beat Simon's Quest but that was thanks to the Club Nintendo magazine. We were stuck for a very long time. Never replayed it since, because it sucked. When we read what we had to do it just sucked. Compare that to Mega Man 2 were experimenting was fun, and finding out which weapon kill which boss easier was a rush.

[Anonymous No.4949412]

>>4949325
I personally enjoy the constant danger. I don't want to leisurely walk around in any game if it doesn't complement the atmosphere. Kinda like how Resident Evil games are the same way and I equally enjoy those. I'll admit some enemies spawning near entrances is dumb but for the most part, the game is constant execution.

[Anonymous No.4949450]

>>4949404
>Zelda 1 is NOT a cryptic game
>you just have to consult a manual and ask your friends for help to explain the things you can't figure out

I don't think you understand what cryptic means. If you needed outside help because you couldn't figure things out, I'd say that qualifies.

[Anonymous No.4949456]

>>4949412
>I personally enjoy the constant danger
It's not the constant danger I mind, it's the constant and relentless effort required. In Legend of Zelda, walking around is dangerous (precisely how dangerous depends on where you are, of course). But, if you are in a hurry, just moving around enemies takes very little time or effort. You still need to pay attention an avoid getting hit by fireballs, rocks, lionel swords, fast-moving peahats, and such and if you just rush through thoughtlessly you're almost gauranteed to get hit. But still, if you're just trying to get from A to B, the amount of time effort required to move through the areas is substantially less.

In linear games like Castlevania the challenges are also consistent and the effort is constant, but at least the challenges are either new or difficult enough that you have to try it multiple times.

In Metroid there are a lot of obstacles that you simply must overcome each and every time you backtrack through an area, whether it's a platforming challenge or an enemy launcher or even just jumping up those long vertical segments that are extremely easy but time-consuming and repetitive. And, the enemy respawn is constant. When you walk down the hallway to pick up a treasure you'll kill/evade enemies on the way in, and you'll kill/evade the same enemies on the way back out.

It's not horrible. I think Metroid is a decent game and I totally see why people enjoyed it back in the NES era, but I do find it easy to get bored and discouraged.

[Anonymous No.4949461]

>>4949450
A manual is actually part of the game.
And asking your friends...well, I would never consider it outside help. It's just part of the experience.

>Get new game for whatever reason (birthday, good grades, etc)
>Read manual while your parents drive you home after buying it
>Call friends: hey, I just got X
>10 minutes later, playing it together
>Get stuck
>Know somone in school
>Tells you what to do and you realize it was actually obvious
>Learning experience

It was all part of gaming. And again, all the information you needed was there. Cryptic would be something like Simon's Quest but Zelda 1 was fine.

[Anonymous No.4949491]

>>4949461
>obvious
If you get stuck like this then it's not obvious. It's a game that fails to tell the player what it wants from him. And so you end up aimlessly wandering around the map trying to find what you missed. This is a known issue of game design in early 90's, especially prevalent in point and click adventure games. It's also a part of Nintendo money-making scheme to promote sales of strategy guides/Nintendo Power magazines.

[Anonymous No.4949493]

>>4949461
I recall my friends had (oddly?) good judgment about what to share, too. It's like you just kind of know which things you don't want to spoil and which things don't matter. Showing someone one secret bomb wall or burned bush isn't going to ruin much.

This whole "blind playthrough" thing is a modern invention, as if the only options are to completely spoil a game or play it completely blind.

[Anonymous No.4949497]

>>4949491
>aimlessly
There's your problem.

[Anonymous No.4949536]

>>4949302
If you didn't think that the lone tree covering this spot was suspicious then I'm sorry, but you're a brainlet. Once you burn that down you realize that burning down trees is a thing you can do. Kids figured it out back when Zelda was entirely new and unfamiliar. You're struggling with it in 2018, a point in time where all of Zelda's mechanics are defined and well known.

[Anonymous No.4949538]

>>4949497
Then what's the word you are going to use when you don't know what you are supposed to do.

[Anonymous No.4949557]

>>4949536
It's simple if you know that candles burn some trees. Which is explained only in a pamphlet included in the original game, while the manual itself does not mention this.
The game itself does not give you any feedback if you try to use the candle on hundreds of non-secret trees, and to top it off you are able to use it only once per screen. If you think that wasting your time trying to burn random bushes with zero effect is somehow "obvious" then I have news for you - you are retarded.
Sure, when you have only one cartridge to play, cannot progress for weeks and try to burn every tree out of complete and utter boredom then at some point you will find a secret. But to pass it off as a somehow intelligent design is an insanity.
And no, Zelda mechanics are not defined and well known. Zelda is not that prominent of a game, but it surely is hyped by fanboys like you.

[Anonymous No.4949561]

>>4949557
You're literally retarded and your only response is to call everyone else fanboys.

[Anonymous No.4949564]

>>4949538
Explore with purpose, experiment and figure it out. If that is too hard for you, look up the answer online or ask a friend. It's that simple.

[Anonymous No.4949570]

>>4949561
I provided plenty of arguments. Your ONLY response is to call me retarded. Which only reinforces the fact that you are a blind Nintendo/Zelda fanboy who is incapable of looking at games critically.

[Anonymous No.4949580]

>>4949491
As if you didn't do things wrong in your life that once explained were obvious.
Same with videogames. Afterwards you always know more, but that doesn't mean it's bad design just because someone is too dumb to figure something out. Also, we were kids.

>>4949538
See>>4949497
I honestly don't know how you where having problems with Zelda when we were playing it back then and we weren't even 10.

>>4949557
And what's your problem with the candle? How do you play games?Like I said, I'm an idiot, so I try to use every item and weapon to see what it does. If the game has a manual or in-game descriptions I read it too. Also, it's a game. Play it, play around, try things. That's the only thing a game is good for.

[Anonymous No.4949581]

>>4949570
Every argument you've mustered boils down to:

>I'm too retarded to figure out basic shit and stubbornly refuse to make use of any commonly available resources available for retards like me.

[Anonymous No.4949582]

>>4949580
There's an entire thread of multiple people on /v/ saying the same shit about Zelda that I'm saying here right now. I'm not the only one who has exactly same problems with Zelda. So no, my dude, it's not me, it's a problem with the game.

[Anonymous No.4949585]

>>4949582
It's not a problem that an expensive cartridge game has roadblocks.

[Anonymous No.4949586]

>>4949493
I hear you. Nothing more satisfying, than someone giving you a good hint and then discovering something fun in the game thanks to this. Or sharing or showing something fun to your friends. My best videogame moments were always with friends. Even single-player games we had fun.

>TFW you got the SNES with Street Fighter II, Zelda and SMW
>Had sleepovers every weekend playing the shit out of the games
>Fun only stopped when someone's parent came up and said: It's 2AM, I don't want to hear a single sound anymore.
>Woke up at 7AM and continued playing.

[Anonymous No.4949592]

>>4949580
>I honestly don't know how you where having problems with Zelda when we were playing it back then and we weren't even 10.
see: >>4949582
They're not actually playing and having problems. They're /v/ retards LARPing at being game critics by parroting a stupid meme and then calling anyone who challenge them fanboys.

[Anonymous No.4949595]

>>4949582
Having problems with the usage of candles and orientation is not a game problem. Maybe, just maybe, you should think about what a videogame is and what you should do with it.

>>4949592
Oh, that's actually sad. But it explains the non-appreciation of pure gameplay.

[Anonymous No.4949597]

>>4949585
Post purchase rationalization. Playing right into Nintendo's money-grabbing schemes.
>>4949592
boards.4chan.org/v/thread/426283320
Read the thread before spouting bullshit please.

[Anonymous No.4949601]

>>4949595
>use a candle on a tree
>it does literally nothing
>proceed to reenter the screen and do it on every tree
>nothing

a masterpiece

[Anonymous No.4949610]

>>4949601
Why would you want to do it on every tree?
It has been said (and posted), that sooner or later you'll notice which trees to burn and which wall to bomb. And AFTERWARDS you'll realize it was VERY obvious and you were dumb. All the other secrets hidden behind trees and walls are non-essential. Just play the games, and if there's some roadblock, try to think how to solve it. It's not like games have infinite options.

If you think things like this is bad design, then you should try some old Sierra games. Or that Discworld game for the PS1. Have fun starting threads after playing them.

[Anonymous No.4949619]

>>4949610
I already mentioned old point'n'click games.

[Anonymous No.4949628]

>>4949619
Sorry, didn't read that post. Those games were pretty much bullshit, although I always loved watching the Space Quest series, not playing it.

[Anonymous No.4949636]

>>4949628
Fun games and I did complete some of them. 3,4 and 5 I think. But then again, nobody considers them masterpieces.

[Anonymous No.4949640]

>>4949636
They had VERY good reviews back then, but yeah, time was not kind to them. That and Lucasarts fucked them pretty well at a certain point.

[Anonymous No.4949713]

>>4949640
The humor is still top notch though.

[Anonymous No.4949721]

>>4949713
Yep.

[Anonymous No.4949750]

>>4949461
>asking your friends...well, I would never consider it outside help.

Except that it is, by definition, outside help. I hear you on the manual being part of the game, but getting help from your friends is definitely external assistance and the fact that you see it as necessary proves that the game is a lot less clear and obvious than you want to admit.

[Anonymous No.4949761]

>>4949557
>And no, Zelda mechanics are not defined and well known.
>The mechanics of arguably the most mechanically influential series of all time are not well known.

[Anonymous No.4949771]

>>4949750
A $115 cartridge game is supposed to make you get stuck constantly. If you want to shut off and coast through something, try a recent Ubisoft game.

[Anonymous No.4949783]

>>4949761
What an arrogant statement.

[Anonymous No.4949812]

>>4949597
>Read the thread
>Its not even talking about Legend of Zelda, rather Ocarina of Time, Link's Awakening, and ALTTP
Holy Jesus I didn't think this thread could get stupider.

Those games have a different design with regards to puzzles and the value of external knowledge. Ocarina in particular is all about trying to guess what particular mechanic the developers implemented specifically for this one puzzle and each puzzle blocks your way to the next puzzle with a new gimmick.

Zelda 1 doesn't do that, except maybe in Level-7 with the secret entrance and the grumble goblin halfway through. In Zelda 1 there are a very few mechanics and the player is given plenty of time to discover and experiment with those mechanics before they're required in any puzzles.

[Anonymous No.4949852]

>>4949601
What actually happens:
>use a candle on a tree
>it does literally nothing
>Continue on to explore somewhere you haven't been yet.
>Next time passing through, try a different bush
>Still nothing
>Then, on the 3rd try, you actually find the secret, which is 10 rupees.

Eventually...
> You get the red candle and have unlimited shots per screen
> You can easily check whatever bushes you feel like as you're mowing down enemies for shits.
> If looking for all the obscure secrets doesn't interest you, just go kill Ganon and be done with it.

[Anonymous No.4949859]

>>4947162
IMO the dungeons were done well. Secrets exist in rooms you can spot on the map and other dungeons gave hints like "east most peninsula is the key" or some shit. You really don't need to waste many bombs at all.

[Anonymous No.4950030]

>tfw too stupid to manage a simplistic game pre-internet children could figure out in the 80s

[Anonymous No.4950045]

>>4949812
that's because zelda 1 doesn't have any puzzles other than where to bomb a wall

[Anonymous No.4950049]

>>4950030
Those kids took more than one play session to complete the game. These whiners don't want to play the game. They want the satisfaction of having finished it and they want it now.

[Anonymous No.4950057]

>>4950049
these days it's not normal to be wandering around aimlessly in a game. there has to be an objective

[Anonymous No.4950076]

>>4950057
Sometimes you just wanna stab moblins

[Anonymous No.4950090]

>>4950049
>>4950057
Holy shit, this reads like satire.

[Anonymous No.4950105]

>>4950045
The labyrinths are more like mazes that give an extra layer to the combat that forms the core gameplay. Determining where to go in dungeons requires more than just bombing walls.

>>4950057
Legend of Zelda has an objective, a clear and simple one: collect 8 pieces of triforce to enter evil Ganon's lair and save the princess. That's it, that's your goal. If you think bombing every rock tile in the overworld will help you achieve that goal, you're welcome to try that even if most smart people will use their time more efficiently.

It's certainly better than WoW-style "Kill 10 greater zombies" quests or worse: achievements.

[Anonymous No.4950371]

>>4945167
>took me a month to beat it

This is the thing. Even though if you know what you're doing the game can be beaten in a few hours, the road to knowing everything about the game can take awhile.

New games constantly reward you with tangible progress. In Zelda 1 you may not find a major item or beat a dungeon in a 1-3 hour play session so you aren't given that slow drip of reward.

If you can't delay gratification you'll never beat it.

[Anonymous No.4950373]

>>4950371
>If you can't delay gratification you'll never beat it.
Go do something more suited to idiots/crack fiends then. Like smoking crack and jerking off.

[Anonymous No.4950408]

>>4950373
Hey I'm not defending it, I personally think there's way better ways to spend your time than wandering around in circles in a 30 year old game. But you do have to be persistent and go for relatively long dry spells with very little positive reinforcement to beat it

[Anonymous No.4950629]

>>4950408
>But you do have to be persistent and go for relatively long dry spells with very little positive reinforcement to beat it
Only if you stubbornly refuse to do anything but a completely blind playthrough and by blind I mean like you can't even fucking see the screen to read the map.

> In Zelda 1 you may not find a major item or beat a dungeon in a 1-3 hour play session so you aren't given that slow drip of reward.
You shouldn't start getting stuck until well over halfway through the game, and at that point it's most likely because you're getting destroyed by Darknut or Wizrobes not because you can't figure out what to do next. The reason is that the world is dense with content. If you don't find Level-1 right away, you'll at least find other interesting things.

>wandering around in circles in a 30 year old game
Again unless you're a child or literally retarded that's not how to play the game. You'll find all kinds of stuff as you play. When someone says it took them a month to beat as a kid, it's because they probably weren't allowed to play it more than a few hours per week. There might be a few specific spots where someone might get lost and confused, but unless you actually want to talk about those specific spots I'm going to assume you're just talking out of your ignorant asshole.

[Anonymous No.4951502]

>>4949601
Red candle (unlimited use) is in level 7, and level 8 is behind a tree to burn. It's almost like it's intentional...

[Anonymous No.4953093]

Unless you think the merit of the game comes from the localization, looking at the Murrican edition of the manual is moronic. For all you retards who can't bother downloading the Japanese manual that was published on Nintendo's own website for free, nowhere does it mention that bombs or candles can reveal hidden areas.

[Anonymous No.4953141]

>>4953093
It doesn't mention much of anything if you don't read moon runes.

[Anonymous No.4953250]

>>4953093