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/vr/ - Retro Games

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4934878 No.4934878 [Reply] [Original]

Why did videogames have to be in 60fps when movies can be enjoyed just fine at 24fps?

>> No.4934881

>>4934878
all games can be enjoyed perfectly in 30fps, only literal autists claim otherwise.

>> No.4934890

>>4934878
Why did N64 games have to be 12fps when movies are 24fps?

>> No.4934892

>>4934878
>playin retro games above 30
wut?

>> No.4934904

>>4934878
You're not reacting to movies in real time so it matters much less. Also it's what we're used to with movies and what people are used to sets their preference to a degree. Some people hate the way 60fps video looks, but if it becomes the standard in the future, looking back at film running 24 fps would also look strange to them.

>> No.4934906

>>4934878
The image for a game cannot rely on inbetween-frames to create the illusion of "smooth" movement.

>> No.4934924

>>4934878
fuck off back to /v/, faggot

>> No.4934929

>>4934904
It's become very common on youtube and I'm liking it. Can't stand the interpolation so many TVs do.

>>4934878
Games don't have blur without additional processing to fake it, and each frame can have infinite exposure time since it's not a real camera so there's not much of a downside.

>> No.4934986

>>4934878
It depends of genre and the game's age. Modern games are optimal at 60 fps, but retro games are fine at 30 (some even glitch out when played at higher framerates). Shooters require the highest framerate as possible, while RTS can do well with as little as 20 fps.

>> No.4934998

>>4934986
Except that 99% of retro games before the 3D era were 60fps

>> No.4935004
File: 2.53 MB, 4032x3024, C4D2F7DE-632E-4A44-B57D-873B427A3234.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4935004

>>4934890
A much better question.

>> No.4935008

Games werent stored on film or cranked by hand you silly cunt so they never had the limitations film had to deal with. Now the limitations are gone but people have seen 24fps movies for so long they reject anything else. Films are limited by their low framerates too with certain types of shots looking like dogshit. Games are also about skill and interaction so the lag from low framerates is a big detriment. Even film is limited by the low framerate though

>> No.4935009

>>4934998
The animations play at that rate because it's what TVs were, but most have 1-3 frames of input lag, so are they really 60fps?

>> No.4935013

>>4934998
Framerate is not relevant for 2D games. It only became an important factor in the 3D era.

>> No.4935018

>>4934890
N64 games did things current games won't even try. Can you name one contemporary game that allows chaining explosives like in Perfect Dark? Minecraft doesn't count.

>> No.4935020

>>4935009
...If the animations play at that rate, then yes, it's 60fps. That input lag is a farce though. Don't know where you got 1-3 frames of lag.

>>4935013
I would say it is. The higher the frame rate, the lower in the input lag is. It still holds true then as it does today.

>> No.4935041

>>4935020
You can measure the lag. One frame of additional lag on top of that is hardly a problem, even for speedrunners. More can be a significant annoyance. Most humans can't react and press a button in less than a fifth of a second, but can reliably time an anticipated button press to within one or two frames.

>> No.4935046

>>4935020
If you don't have a somewhat high speed camera, you can start up a high accuracy emulator, pause it, hold a button, and frame advance. Most platformers won't start the action on the next frame, but the one after that or later.

>> No.4935068

Movies have a crazy amount of motion blur. Just hit pause at some random moment and you'll see it.

Also yeah input lag. There's a reason why all the pro Quake players play at like 150-200 fps. At higher fps more input can be read per second.

But if you're playing a single player piss easy game like Zelda then yeah 30 fps is kinda fine. You get used to it anyway.

>> No.4935075

I plugged up my n64 to an HDTV a year or two ago and it lagged like crazy, shit wasn't meant for anything but a composite crt

>> No.4935095

>>4935018
Why doesn't that count?

>> No.4935096

Just a friendly reminder that there's a working 60 fps hack for Conker's Bad Fur Day and it makes a MASSIVE difference.

>> No.4935102

>>4935075
Recent TVs do a lot of extra processing that adds lag, sometimes as much as a fifth of a second. Most a have a game mode that disables it so it's much faster.

>> No.4935107

>>4935095
It's not a conventional AAA release.

>> No.4935127

>>4935018
Can't you do that in the MGS series? I vaguely remember chaining explosions off of C4 and claymores

>> No.4935135

>>4935018
GTA vehicles

>> No.4935142

>>4935107
Ok, so it has to be conventional, contemporary, and made by a big budget company... Can I add awkward stipulations too?

>>4935127
Well if its on the Playstation it doesn't count. That's not a real console becasue it isn't made by Nintendo. Name a single contemporary, conventional, AAA release on a nintendo console that allows you to chain explosives.

>>4935135
That doesn't count becasue there is a number in the title. We all know that games with numbers in the title aren't real games. Besides, GTA didn't come out for the N64.

This is fun!

>> No.4935149

>>4935135
Pretty good example. What was the mine limit in Perfect Dark?

>> No.4935150

>>4935075
because the TV is being taxed pretty much to it's computational limit converting that signal to digital

24 FPS isn't just convention, people say it creates a moodier feeling than higher framerates. Less information can be a good thing. I think it has to do with the fewer number of pictures revealing less about the actors and sets and helping the illusion along. With games the illusion is better served by having the player feel like the world is as constant and "real" as possible. This is my personal speculation.

>> No.4935152

>>4934881
The only game genre where framerate matters is fighting games. Anything else is fine at 30

>> No.4935164

>>4934878
movies are something real that's intended to become an illusion
vidya are an illusion that's intended to become something real

>> No.4935171
File: 1.88 MB, 640x360, mdk.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4935171

>>4934890
Why did PS1 games have to be 8fps when N64 are 12fps?

>> No.4935189

>>4935018
Quake. One explobox will set off another will set off another and so on.

>> No.4935201

>>4935152
Nah it matters in anything skill based and/or competitive like fps, rhythm games, action-puzzle, shmups, beat em ups, racing games and more. If you're playing some rpg or adventure it doesn't matter much though.

>> No.4935231

I've never really understood the fixation with framrates unless the framerates are not consistently the same through out the game.

>> No.4935407

>>4934878
This image is worksafe - mods

>> No.4935443

>>4935407
Faces are not nipples and areolas.

Can trans dudes with boobs legally be shirtless? What if they're still smaller than your dad's?

>> No.4935458

>>4935443
Honestly, tits in public should be legalised, there's no reason why girls can't also go topless.

>> No.4935460

>>4935458
Several states have no laws against women being topless. Surprisingly, most girls just aren't into that.

>> No.4935463
File: 47 KB, 642x720, 20f62c00a025d7736f82d6dfb3f184b7906a5f67[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4935463

>>4935443
Blurs are not nipples and areolas.
This is now a porn thread.

Also sonic 2 is a cool video game. it has levels.

>> No.4935475

>>4935460
Yeah, because society still frowns upon it even if it's not against the law. Guess it's hard to change centuries of Christian anti-body indoctrination.

>> No.4935479

>>4934878
I don't enjoy movies at 24fps though. I would much rather it be the same fps as my refresh rate.

>> No.4935490

>>4935407
I browse 4chan at work -an idiot

>> No.4935512

>>4935490
"I dont have a job and am a summer fag that doesnt know what a blue board is" - >>4935490

>> No.4935516 [DELETED] 

>>4935512
I wouldn't browse any blue board at work, or even reddit. I use my phone to search reddit for work-related things because it's embarrassing to be associated with them at all. I like how this site doesn't have negativity baked in like reddit does with its downvote buttons :-)

>> No.4935604

>>4935512
People can post anything here, even if the mods crack down on it there's always a chance you might see it. It's your choice to risk your job over it because you can't stay away from video game discussions for a few hours.

>> No.4935939

>>4934881
fuck off noob, you are the reason we get so many shot games now

>> No.4936018

>>4934878
Virtua Racing on Sega Genesis plays at 15-20 fps and it slays the 60 fps arcade version.

>> No.4936069

>>4934878
Why are gamers willing to settle for 60fps instead of demanding 120fps?

>> No.4936602

What >>4935020 said. There's a reason why many 60fps console titles are racing games, fighting games or 2D platformers, and many of the games that don't (LittleBigPlanet, the console versions of Sonic Generations) get criticized for their lag. The extra 16ms to react is crucial. When the NfS: Hot Pursuit reboot came out, a big part of the marketing push was how Criterion minimized the input lag to compensate for it running at 30fps.

>> No.4936706

>>4934878
because more frames means the game feels faster and more fluid, which helps alot if your game is a fast paced action game, otherwise games will be optimized accordingly to what the engine can handle and what is most presentable. However if a frame rate is too low in a noticeable it could potentially impact the enjoy-ability of the overall experience which is what most developers want avoid. Trying to make video games like movies for the sake of it will only make things worse, this is why people mock David Cage all the time.

>> No.4936928

>>4935171
game?

>> No.4937072

>>4934904
>if it becomes the standard in the future

Movies above 24fps look too 'realistic', i.e. just not movie-like (see the Hobbit trilogy cinematic releases at 48fps). Any imperfections are just clear as day in high frame rate.

>> No.4937093

>>4934878
Motionblur. Movies traditionally have 180degree shutter (other values can be used and are used - including, with digital cameras, 360degree shutter meaning retaining ALL of the motion phases in blur trails - but 180degree is by far the most common setting and a default for "muh movie feel"), meaning half the motion phases chip in on the smudged object contour in the resulting frame. Games, without fake, shader-imitated motionblur, can only render immediate states of the objects meaning effectively 0degree shutter. That way 24fps CG footage looks very noticeably choppy.

Also, there is an issue of input latency as well.

>> No.4937114

>>4935201
If the framerate is consistent, it doesn't matter.

>> No.4937259

>>4937072
the hobbit only had issues with 48fps because it was nearly entirely cgi and not very good cgi.

>> No.4937318

>>4934878
>why did movies have to be in 24fps when a painting can be enjoyed just fine at 1fp500y?

>> No.4937350

>>4937114
Yes it does. Ask any of player who is seriously into any of those genres and they will tell you that it does, and there is a reason 60 is the minimum and any time a game allows more players immediately jump at the opportunity. Just because you can get used to the input lag and stuttery visuals doesn't mean they are in any way desirable

>> No.4937389

>>4937318
Anime often cuts costs by panning over still images.

>> No.4937457

>>4937259

No, it's not just the Hobbit. Look at any movie on one of those horrid flat-screens that make everything look like a soap opera, the Hobbit looks like that. I understand some people are not so sensitive to this (the same people who claim you can't notice a difference between 30 and 60 fps, or 60+), but for the large amount of people who DO notice, it makes anything viewed like this nearly unwatchable. The frames slither across the screen like slime.

>> No.4937545

>>4935458
Come to Europe, is legal to be naked as long you aren't doing anything sexual.

>> No.4937564

>>4935142
>Besides, GTA didn't come out for the N64.
He asked for contemporary. GTA3 and perfect dark are one year apart.

>> No.4937593

Watch enough action movies and you won't like movies being 24fps that much


That and how frequent they change camera angles

>> No.4937619

>>4936928
MDK

>> No.4937654

>>4937457
>horrid flat-screens that make everything look like a soap opera
>interpolation
wow, it's like you don't even have an argument! try watching content that's actually shot at a higher fps.

>> No.4938289

>>4934878
movies
>no-ninteractive medium
>in-between frames

games
>interactive medium reliant on immediate input response

>nb4 24 and 30 fps myths
24 is absolute bare minimum for somewhat smooth motion
30 is half of 60hz TV refresh rate most people had so it won't produce screen tearing if the game cant be made to run at 60
Almost any human can easily distinguish between 30 and 60, as well as 60 and 120. People with keen eyesight can see the difference between 120 and 200 fps.
If you cant distinguish between aforementioned FPS values the most probable reason is that your monitor is trash with ghosting or crap response time, which is often the case
Most of the time 30 and lower FPS are a thing because devs couldn't optimize their game better.

>> No.4938305

>>4938289
24 isn't even the minimum. Other trickery is needed to make 24fps movies not painful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En__V0oEJsU

>> No.4938392
File: 119 KB, 585x299, 400.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4938392

Here is the thing. PRO low FPS idiots aka playstation owners believe that the human eye cant see more than 24 frames per second anyway. Which already isn't true.

The reason why high FPS is better, doesn't have anything to do with the visual aspect. Higher FPS give you a broader window for input. A game like Street Fighter II would become unplayable with less than 60 FPS.

Bottom line DON'T FUCKING BELIEVE WHAT THE SONY NIGGERS FEED YOU.

>> No.4938415

>>4934878
Movies are moving pictures where each frame is blended when rolling, so 24 fps movies look fine. The way games gets rendered one frame at a time doesn't have the same smoothness so 24 fps is a complete slideshow, where 30 fps is the absolutely minimum but even then the player's input doesn't react as quick. Can you add motion blur to games to rectify this? You can but the issue still persists because the player is reactively pressing buttons based on false premises of blended, "between" frames. Were you alive in frame A or dead in frame B? There's no in between in the game logic, and you will be hitting buttons based on shit that doesn't exist.

>> No.4938427

>>4938415
Movie frames aren't blended together. It's the long exposure that causes blur. Each frame is shown stationary, and then the light blocked while advancing to the next the next one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En__V0oEJsU

>> No.4938430

>>4938392
>Here is the thing. PRO low FPS idiots aka playstation owners believe that the human eye cant see more than 24 frames per second anyway. Which already isn't true.
Nobody believes that, it's like tapping on a soda can to stop it fizzing; it's a myth that can be disproven within a minute.

>> No.4938439

>>4938427
Isn't that pretty much what I meant when I said when a film is rolling (and playing)?

>> No.4938445

>>4938439
If you want. The part that's being projected isn't rolling at the time. Just tryna prevent misconceptions.

>> No.4938463

>>4938430
Get a load of this boomer with his soda. We drink seltzer now.

>> No.4938468

>>4935152
Try playing an FPS at 144hz and then going back to 60 or hell even 30.
Stop being a retard.

>> No.4938473

>>4938468
It's nice not needing fake blur :-)

>> No.4938512

>>4935018
Tons of games let you do that, you fucking idiot. Just because you don’t screw around in games like you did when you were 8 anymore doesn’t mean they’ve regressed.

>> No.4938523

>>4938512
What games should I check out?

>> No.4938564

>>4938523
Just Cause series are basically build around this concept

>> No.4938595

>>4938564
I'm aware of Bollywood: The Game. Looks fun :-)

>> No.4938598

>>4937654
Wow, it's almost like you are illiterate

>> No.4938604

>>4938595
Of old games: Heretic (which is a Doom clone, but a very good one) has moments where you blow up series of explosive spheres to clear a path. Spheres blow up in sequence and can chain in the direction you want depending on which one you detonated first. You can use it to wipe out your enemies.
In some cases spheres (called spores in the game) regrow after a time, allowing to re-use the trap.

>> No.4938629

>>4938468

You can still enjoy it at 30fps.

>> No.4938652

>>4938629
For me, 30 fps on a game that requires any amount of reflex-based response is too irritating to bear.

I remember playing through Morrowind at 9-15 fps back in the days (with all of its 200+ quests). I wish I did not remember that.

>> No.4939382

The only reason 60 is a standard is because that's the refresh rate on old TVs.

144 is far superior.

>> No.4939391
File: 311 KB, 1440x1095, when op is being a faggot.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4939391

>reported this thread 2 days ago
>still up

what the fuck /vr/?

>> No.4939405

>>4939391
It's not explicit enough. Skim /vg/ to see what's allowed on a blue board.

>> No.4939425

>>4934878
there is no need for games to run in such insanely high frame rates, unless you are playing competitive shooters. some games hinge on extremely precise movements and fast reaction times. film is a passive medium. the frame rate just has to not be annoying. I mean, look at animation. that NEVER breaks 24 fps, and most of it caps at 12. But, those formats don't require their audience to dodge bullets and shoot at targets within fractions of seconds

>> No.4939432

>>4935150
>this
watch any of the Lord of the Rings movies on HD, 60fps. everything looks fake as hell.

>> No.4939495

>>4937389
Anime also often cuts costs by drawing pictures of alien tentacle rape monsters instead of hiring actual alien tentacle rape monsters

>> No.4939513

>>4934878
gameplay

>> No.4939614

>>4939405
I don't think that's reason why he reported it, anon.

>> No.4940468 [DELETED] 

>>4939391
>muh reports
Don't be a pussy.

>> No.4940482

>>4935150

My theory about the "60 fps looks phony" sort of thing has to do with the background versus the actors. When the actors move too fluidly, and the background is totally stiff looking, things start to feel less like moving pictures, and a lot more like people on a set.