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/vr/ - Retro Games

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4931818 No.4931818 [Reply] [Original]

Why do so many people keep praising 2D games. But shit all over early 3D games?

>> No.4931823

because it's cool

>> No.4931827

Because good spritework is eternally appealing, while the transition to early 3D ruined many a series with crappy controls, bad cameras and muddy models.
I still haven't recovered from the RTS/RPG and other genres switching from isometric to true 3D, personally. The former will always remain my favorite graphical style.

>> No.4931829

I haven't seen that much. There ARE a lot of really shitty early 3D games, while most 2D games are at least somewhat playable.

Roll Away is fucking ace tho.

>> No.4931841

these early 3D games are like this really unique flavor that 2D games and modern 3D games lack

Sadly alot of people juat can´t appriciate that flavor

>> No.4931842

people are usually shitting on 3d games that were originally in 2d. also (pictured), being the first home console to do 3d this detailed, and in real time, was unheard of then and people were still learning the ropes of making games in 3d, so quality of some games is questionable. by the end of ps1's life, developers were still squeezing some impressive tricks out of it. I do believe there's still a lot of untapped potential in it not used, same goes for ps2 too (yes, i'm looking at you: DEMOSCENE!) ;)

>> No.4931845
File: 203 KB, 960x714, 52619-OverBlood_(E)-1482926319.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

early 3d is cool now deal with it nerds

>> No.4931881

People shit on early 2D games just as much as early 3D games. You're not comparing apples to apples.

>> No.4931893

Some people just can´t appriciate uniqueness

>> No.4931926

I played early 3D games. I love them and I still play them to this day. They are shit though. The controls, the camera issues, it makes me nauseous playing some of my favorite games from my childhood sometimes. There are some really cool and unique games from the time period but there's nothing wrong with being honest about it all.

>> No.4932049

They aren't praising Atari games, they are praising later games.

Early 3D had a lot of experimentation with controls schemes and camera use. Now they have the standards on how to do it.

>> No.4932064

ridge racer plays pretty good

>> No.4932078

People also shit on early 2D games. Just look at all the Atari threads we have.

>> No.4932116

Can you name two early talkies worth watching?

>> No.4932192

If you shit on Alone in the dark's graphics it's fine. If you shit on MGS, OoT, Mario64, FF7, etc graphics then you should kill yourself you stupid underrage with shit taste

>> No.4932198


>> No.4932231

No one said the zx spectrum was good

>> No.4932250

It wasn't even intended to play games. Every Zed-Ex Speccy game suffers attribute clash because it was designed to display mostly text. not graphical games. Most of Clives success was by accident.

>> No.4932272
File: 2.71 MB, 3200x2400, 1497562954070.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

THIS. Early 3D games had controls from hell and everybody was trying something different and weird every game untill something worked. Even after the PSX introduced dual analog I think only a small handful of games actually used the right stick for camera control instead of the bumpers.

When you pick up a 2D game the control scheme is much more likely to be obvious from the get go.

>> No.4932275

They're idiots.

>> No.4932290

Because by 4th gen, concepts of 2D game design had been pretty well solidified.
Early 3D is full of
>Jank gameplay experiments, actually throwing shit at the wall to see what works
>A lot of devs not giving a shit about art style because they know anything 3D will be praised for cutting edge graphics.

>> No.4932364

2D constraints led to certain kinds of games being very popular and well-developed. No 3D game can capture the elegant orthogonality of a 2D side-scroller or shmup. Constraints forced developers to focus on gameplay details and polish. It was very rare for any 2D game during the late 80s and early 90s to have padding. Even JRPGs were snappy and focused on key gameplay elements. Even a game with boring level design(say, E.V.O.) at least put enemies in those plain, flat levels and didn't just expect you to admire the ugly polygonal scenery as you ran through.

5th gen, the PS1 in particular, saw a massive increase in the focus on spectacle and the novelty of 3D. Loading times on 2D consoles were never more than a second or two, easily disguised by transition screens that a well-paced game would have anyway (eg Street Fighter 2). Literally every PS1 game has loading screens slower than the worst of the previous gen.

3D also opened up many possibilities for new kinds of games that were (essentially) impossible in 2D. I think Twisted Metal is a good example of a game that has many of the bad traits of PS1 3D like wobbly polygons and periods of boringness moving through flat areas-- but it was also a new style of game that hadn't been done before. Before Twisted Metal, arena-style vehicle combat was virtually unheard of in videogames. I can think of Combat on Atari 2600 and that's about it. I'm sure there are a few others but doubt any of them come anywhere close to Twisted Metal.

>> No.4932380

Polygons ruined gaming.

>> No.4932389

I disagree. Before 3D, there were only variations of the same three games.

There's still plenty of polygon-free games for you to play, some with graphics animated on paper/plastic then photographed/scanned, and many others drawn by hand on a tablet.

>> No.4932406

he looks confused by his own fingers

>> No.4932423

Z-buffer can be a little confusing

>> No.4932482

This. When people praise 2D, they’re largely talking about the 16-bit era when they were at their peak.

>> No.4932535

I do love some early 3D games like Model 1 or Model 2 games. What I have never liked was mixing 3D with really low resolutions (you can't see it as well as if the games were 2D), flickering or the lack of perspective correction. Those problems were in abundance in 32 bits consoles.

>> No.4932683


Early 3D looks like blocky shit compared to 2D games from the same era.

Some series like Darius shooters that still get modern releases have never recovered. Darius Gaiden remains the pinnacle compared to G-Darius or the PSP turned arcade/home console shooter Dariusburst.

>> No.4932730

To be fair, one of the problems with Dariusburst is more the uneven and uncharismatic artstyle than it being 3D.

>> No.4932747
File: 61 KB, 640x480, 1531281529700.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>Why do so many people keep praising 2D games. (no time table)
>But shit all over early 3D games? (timed era)
What a weak ass bait thread. You might as well say "why does everybody praise high speed internet but shit on AOL 56k?"

>> No.4932947

Just decided to play THPS2 on original HW via composite.
Must say, it still holds up IMO. I note that the shadow of the skaters is quite dynamic and impressive for a PSX title. GT2 also has a neat look, over composite. On component via PS2, many games bear their flaws. FFVII looked great however. It just depends what game. Like most say, they were in very uncharted back in those days. And I'd rather have it like that, than modern. You see, we've basically mastered graphics. There's no more push to find tricks because hardware can basically make a bitch out of any graphical tech. Just look at Cuphead.

>> No.4932957

THPS2 is far from an early 3D game though. It came out in 2000. I’d describe “early 3D” as stuff from like 1992 to 1997 or so.

>> No.4932969
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Is Ape Escape early 3d

>> No.4932976


Did you even look at the fucking picture? I know autism makes it hard to connect two things together sometimes, but come the fuck on.

>> No.4932983

Well the thing is I wouldn’t describe the entire PS1 generation as early 3D. Later PS1 games look pretty nice. Stuff like Resident Evil 2/3, Vagrant Story, Metal Gear Solid and Silent Hill are way more advanced looking compared to year 1 or 2 PlayStation releases.

>> No.4933020


>Why do so many people keep praising 2D games (released for ps1/5th gen consoles), but shit all over early 3D games (released for ps1/5th gen consoles)?

There, now you should be able to understand it. If not there is nothing I can do to help you.

>> No.4933025

Hence why I also tossed FFVII in there.
Let's not bullshit here either. THPS2 is early 3D when you consider 3D gaming in general. 2000 is only 10 years from 1990 after all. There's no fucking shader faggotry in that game.

>> No.4933027


Like Virtua Fighter?

>> No.4933039

Well the answer to that is easy. 2D sprite-based games looked their absolute best at that time while a lot of 3D games were pretty crude looking and frankly had a lot of control and camera issues that make them difficult to go back to and play now.

>> No.4933050

i think its subjective also. i dont really like the textures on n64. i dont hate them and some games use them better than others. but, what i do find interesting is the weird artifacts in ps1 and saturn games. the way the devs chose to make things give a very etheral vibe. its not an uncanny valley thing, its more of an artistic things. i like how games like vagrant story, ff8, brave fencer musashi, mgs, etc... use textures. It is very subjective and i dont expect everybody to like it, but its the dipshits spouting allegorical cacophonies like fryers in the 1500s that get on my nerves.

>> No.4933058

Agreed. Most N64 games looked ugly to me even when they were new.

>> No.4933095

>i dont really like the textures on n64
but there aren't any

>> No.4933097

And what were these three games?

>> No.4933110

The fuck? The N64 was the first console to offer smooth textures. Hell it had that before 3D acceleration became commonplace for PC gaming.

>> No.4933130

Maryo, packmin and dreyguns quest.

Not him, his assertion was ass.
There are at least 7 2d gaming styles.
Puzzles, platformers, shmups, action, adventure, rpg and fighters.

>> No.4933132

9, simulations and strategy games.

>> No.4933216

Are there any simulators that are better in 2D than 3D?

There's also sports games. Many are not simulators and fully adapted to the 2D mechanics, such as Tecmo Super Bowl.

>> No.4933225

>But shit all over early 3D games
Coz they generally look awful, have shit performance and have severe camera issues.

>> No.4933238
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>> No.4933243

>Are there any simulators that are better in 2D than 3D?
City building simulators

>> No.4933365

i agree. there is an awesome "city builder" on ps1 but you need to know moonrunes. its called azito and there is 3 of them. they are fucking fantastic

>> No.4933370

Early 3D looked like shit.
Early 2D also looked like shit.
Notice how few people care about Intellivision.

>> No.4933379

personal preference

>> No.4933479

> mario kart
> a shoot em up
please leave.

>> No.4933482

not that many here have any idea what the intellivision was or how awesome it was when it was launched.

>> No.4933486

we had this thread
we've had this thread several times with a lot of answers
shit, I thought this was the last thread, and was looking for my post in it

but anyway, we went from some of the best looking 2D games with loads of skilled artists working on them with more frames of animation and more color than before... to chunky, blocky, choppy 3D games on PS1 with flickering polygons, low polycounts, warping textures, pop-in, fog effects (wasn't technically supported in hardware, but it's ezpz to just tint the texture white the further from the camera it is)

plus, the controls were rougher, and the whole idea of 3D camera control was a newfangled beast that no one really knew what to do with yet

FF7 looks ugly, but that's less because of the blocky overworld characters and more on Square's inexperience and kinda ugly pre-renders (it's insane how much prettier FF8 is across the board)

Man, despite thinking it looked like a blocky mess even back at the time, I'm still kinda impressed at how nice this guy's face looked in Die Hard Arcade.
There's a lot of life to it. It's a bit weird moving, but it's still pretty okay.
shame about the president's daughter, good christ

>> No.4933902 [DELETED] 


Yeah and they are shitty indie games. Sony effectively banned 2D graphics from gaming because they couldn't pull it off convincingly. And the 3D crap is cheaper to produce in masses too.Do not defend those who take advantage of your naiveté.

>> No.4933905


Yeah and they are shitty indie games. Sony effectively banned 2D graphics from gaming because they couldn't pull it off convincingly. And the 3D crap is cheaper to produce in masses too.Do not defend those who take advantage of your naiveté.

>> No.4934130

It plays like one if you don't look at the mode 7 background.

>> No.4934619

ah that makes sense. I was thinking flight and racing sims.

>> No.4934629

No it doesn't, it plays like a racing game. I realize there are some similarities but no, shmups are clearly distinct.

Also, SF2 a shmup? That's not even close.

>> No.4934657

The attacks in Street Fighter are essentially short range projectiles :^)

>> No.4934667

>he thinks that early 2D games where Mario and Pacman

>> No.4934682
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>> No.4934701

Why is this black and white? Wasn't that show in color?

>> No.4934839

polygons dumbass
ever play tekken 1?
then go play tekken 7
there's a big difference

>> No.4936498

I like the flat-shaded polygon art style, but the early textured 3D games used such low-res textures and bad models that are way too dated to be playable to most people these days.

>> No.4936508

Funny boomer

>> No.4936518
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>wants to talk about 5th gen pixel art that was the height of it's power to the recent developed 3D games of the time.

This makes no sense. Now if people were gushing for say Oddessy 2 SD games and shitting on Tekken 1 you have a case but right now your logic is fried and you are comparing something that at that point had 30+ to evolve to something that was less than a decade old in the gaming system world.

>> No.4936530

Scarface and Casablanca.

>> No.4936537

>If you shit on Alone in the dark's graphics it's fine. If you shit on MGS, OoT, Mario64, FF7, etc graphics
Alone in the Dark had objectively better graphics than those shitty console games

>> No.4936554

>Literally every PS1 game has loading screens slower than the worst of the previous gen.
Slower than the PC Engine CD-ROM2, the Sega CD, and the Neo Geo CD-ROM?

>> No.4936558

>I can think of Combat on Atari 2600 and that's about it. I'm sure there are a few others but doubt any of them come anywhere close to Twisted Metal.
There is a car combat game for Atari Lynx that shits on any car combat game on the PS1

>> No.4936562

Early 3D = 5th gen consoles and older, so yes.

>> No.4936570

That's exculding quite a few 4th gen titles as well as the sea of PC games at that time that were early 3D....

>> No.4936586

>That's exculding quite a few 4th gen titles as well as the sea of PC games at that time that were early 3D....
>Early 3D = 5th gen consoles and older, so yes.
>5th gen consoles and older
>and older

>> No.4936775

I had contra 3d. It was bad

>> No.4936920

It is, in an ironic way.


>> No.4936923

1942 aint early.

Casablanca has plot holes and it's full of so many cliches it's like a parody of itself. To be fair, it may have invented or popularized many of them. I only got around to watching it because The Last Jedi reminded me it exists.

>> No.4937001

Casablanca was one of the most notable disaster filmings, with producers changing directors and a script that was being written as the film was made. I believe nobody knew how the movie would end.

But you don't watch Casablanca for a perfect script but for the actors and their interactions, the fantastic direction by Curtiz, the photography, the mood, the dialogues, etc. It really has a lot of classic cinema magic in it in a way that it's difficult to express.