SH

[Anonymous No.4929193]

Could it ever come back? Wouldn't it be great if konami made just one more proper game with same atmosphere as the originals?

[Anonymous No.4929201]

>>4929193
I wish but unless they get TS along with good new talent it's not going to be good. Japs like doing stuff like Evil Within 2 or the RE2 remake nowadays

[Anonymous No.4929452]

>>4929201
Could it be done in first-person? SH had something close to that in the extra options, though it was still more of a third-person/pseudo-first-behind-Harry's-head which was still terrifying to play all the way through.

If they do remake it, I don't want any of that rusty-transition garbage into the Otherworld like they did post-4.

[Anonymous No.4929494]

>>4929193
Horror works only when it's new and unfamiliar. The franchise is stale.

[Anonymous No.4929516]

>>4929193
Ever since PT/Silent Hills was cancelled I've assumed the series is dead

[Anonymous No.4929527]

People really seem to forget context.

No, OP, it can't come back, not only because of Konami, but the state of the industry and the average game player of today.

[NESfag No.4929530]

>>4929494
This is exactly why SH was doomed since the movie and Homecoming

>do the same thing again
>it's stale

>do it differently
>fans complain

personally I thought the first movie and Homecoming were great. In terms of gameplay, HC had better survival than any other SH game.

If Resident Evil 2 remake does well, maybe we'll get a remake or reboot or something.

[Anonymous No.4929542]

>>4929494
I tried Alien Colon Isolation and it stopped being scary right away because the xenomorph is just a big kitty.

[Anonymous No.4929584]

>Konami
>doing anything the fans want

If they were smart, they'd make more metroidvanias.

[Anonymous No.4929729]

>>4929516
This, it's done diddlely dead.

[Anonymous No.4929748]

>>4929452
>first-person

It would just become an outlast clone

[Anonymous No.4929751]

>>4929584
>metroidvania
That sucks though, just let me play stages

[the fuck? No.4929758]

>>4929193

silent hill 3 was the last one that i thoroughly enjoyed, the series is dead ever since

[Anonymous No.4929768]

>>4929758
That's not exactly an original opinion

[Anonymous No.4929769]

>>4929758
I liked 4, flawed as it is.

[Anonymous No.4929774]

>>4929769
The room was great, always forget about it. It's different from the rest too.

I like 3 but always hated that it fucked Harry off-screen like a nobody.

[NESfag No.4929776]

>>4929768
Are you kidding now? Hardcore SH fans will argue to the death that The Room, as heavily flawed as it is, is a masterpiece, solely because it was made by Japs and by "Team Silent"....
Even if when the devs started developing the game they weren't called "Team Silent" and those same days became "Team Silent" when they decided to turn The Room into Silent Hill: The Room.

[Anonymous No.4929780]

>>4929776
Sure but 4 is a good game Team Silent or not. I think 3 has more flaws than it not to mention how flawed 1 is compared to the rest, early 3d games really don't age well

[Anonymous No.4929787]

Franchise is dead. Konami killed it by disbanding Team Silent and giving it away to idiots that think Pyramid Head, Nurses and spooky otherworld transitions are Silent Hill.

It had a good run though. We got 4 good games to enjoy forever.

[NESfag No.4930359]

>>4929787
>Franchise is dead. Konami killed it by disbanding Team Silent and giving it away to idiots that think Pyramid Head, Nurses and spooky otherworld transitions are Silent Hill.

So let me get this straight... the creator and director of Silent Hill leaves after the first game. Then, some other people make SH2, they give a COMPLETELY different reason for Silent Hill to even exist and for everything going on in it, only tying it to the original story through a hidden optional document to read, they recycle the lore (nurses, dogs, spooky otherworld transitions); and all of that is totally fine.

Then, when western devs stick to what was always Silent Hill, it's not okay because "not Team Silent" ?


>nothing threatening about SH2 monsters

I'll agree with that. SH2 can get all the praise it wants for its storytelling and astmosphere, but it fails in terms of gameplay.
The only thing it does right gameplay wise is the puzzles, most of them anyway, and the fact that there are difficulty settings for puzzles was a fantastic idea that should have been re-used.

[Anonymous No.4930362]

>>4929527
Pretty much this, the modern player doesn't want atmospheric horror anymore

[Anonymous No.4930390]

>>4930362
Sadly.

Although Alien Isolation was pretty good with it's atmosphere.

[Anonymous No.4930857]

>>4929193
>Wouldn't it be great if konami made just one more
No. Team Silent wouldn't be involved so it'd just be a rubbish fan-game.

[Anonymous No.4930870]

>>4929787
He's not wrong about SH2's voice acting, they're all terrible apart from Eddie and the little girl but only because little girls are usually absolutely shit and she's actually decent

[Anonymous No.4931052]

>>4929452
PT was shit and i'm glad silent hills got canceled.

[Anonymous No.4931058]

>>4930870
>He's not wrong about SH2's voice acting, they're all terrible
I hate this meme.

[Anonymous No.4931092]

>>4930359
Only the director (Toyama) left after 1. The game was written by Hiroyuki Owaku and he stuck for 2 and 3 (and also worked in 4's music).

2 wasn't made by "some other people" and "Team Silent" is not some urban myth. If you bother to read the credits, you'd see that the same members appear throughout the four games. Mobygames has a nice breakdown:

>People who have worked on this game (SH1) have also collaborated on the creation of the following games:
>Silent Hill 2: Restless Dreams, a group of 26 people
>Silent Hill 2, a group of 20 people
>Silent Hill 3, a group of 16 people
>Silent Hill 4: The Room, a group of 10 people

So don't try to push the myth of a "some other people" making SH2. SH2 had the exact same writer. Team SH1 went on to create SH2, and their core members created SH3 with SH4 as a side project. Then Konami disbanded them and put them on hold to the the arcade game, the comics, the PSP "experience" UMD, and the movie, ie to whore the franchise out as much as they could.

Western devs didn't stick to "what was always Silent Hill". What WAS always SH? Each game had its own unique twist to it besides some common things (rust, hospitals, fog). Basically after Konami set out to milk the franchise they had a clear focus group-ish vision of what made SH popular. That's why you have Pyramid Head in the arcade game, in the movie, in HC, in minikart games, even though "Team Silent" had made a point of not using him again. That's why every other game down the line is about the protagonist dealing with psychological issues and a big monster representing said issues chasing them, even though only one game of the original had that.

Before disbanded, TS had commented that for SH5 they wanted to explore horror in broad daylight. I would have liked that concept more than Konami's repetitive SH "vision". If you like it it's fine, but no need to push myths about it. It's clear that there WAS an original team with an original intent behind their games.

[Anonymous No.4931132]

>>4931092
Good post. That's something a lot of people seem to miss, each SH game having it's own theme. Sadly the movie seemed to cement the idea into dev heads that SH HAS to be Pyramid Head (or some hulking brute representing the hero's dark side) movie nurses, industrial otherworld etc. If the movie was in better hands it probably could have turned out good. The set design was spot-on at least and it really nailed the look of the town.

[Anonymous No.4931181]

>>4929494
I think the same. They fucked up trying to remake the feeling of SH2, they need to do a new thing.

[Anonymous No.4931271]

>>4931181
Like every game post 4 has been trying to recapture 2. Maybe Shattered Memories is different? I never played it, but it looks different, and kind of refreshing compared to origins, homecoming and downpour.

[Anonymous No.4931276]

>>4931271
SH:SM it's different. But without combat is just puzzles and running. And they botched the ps2 port controls.

[Anonymous No.4931285]

>>4931271
It is different, no SH2 wanking for the sole exception of the psychological angle, which is still handled differently enough to feel refreshing. Even though it was kind of mediocre gameplay-wise, I wish more post-Team Silent games were like that, doing there own thing, instead of being yet another SH2 wannabe. The only games that don't jerk off SH2 are Shattered Memories and what, the mobile Orphan games?

[Anonymous No.4931365]

>>4931285
Homecomming jerks off the movie.

[Anonymous No.4931424]

>>4931285
It'd be a decent game if it dropped the silent hill title.

[NESfag No.4931904]

>>4931092
> If you bother to read the credits, you'd see that the same members appear throughout the four games.

Okay, and let me ask out, what proportion of percentage of the team does "10 to 26" people make? A lot less than the majority, that's what; and let's not forget that Mobygames include in its credits, and therefore in those numbers, creatively meaningless jobs as far as the game is concerned like Tech Support, Cover Artist, Special Thanks for publishing/marketing guys from EUROPE, etc etc.

Don't give the "these numbers are the key people" argument. The number ONE key member, the one who made the decisions of what was Silent Hill, was the director of 1, who left after 1, and for the key positions, devs who actually worked on several games, usually had a completely different job from one game to the next, the only exception of which being Yamaoka. Wonder why they used him as a "team silent mascot"? Because that's all they had.

So no, it's not "ONE team". You could find the same numbers, and more, of "devs who worked on this other game" if you looked at many other unrelated games from the same company, especially in the PS2 era the amount of people working on a single game became huge.

The very fact that The Room is included in this logic shows how biased it is. The Room started as a non SH game, was developped at the same time as SH3 for quite some time (meaning the key people were working on that), then they decided to turn it into a SH game and suddenly the team BECAME "Team Silent".
But you tell me it's okay because "a group of 10 people who worked on SH1 also worked on it". Yeah, and a group of 12 people worked on Castlevania and on Goemon for N64, and that was one generation before The Room, meaning less total devs. Does that make Goemon a "Team Castle" game?

Not only "team silent" isn't one team, it was also a marketing tool, which everyone fell into and which backfired against them when they didn't have an excuse to use it anymore.

[NESfag No.4931920]

Also,
>58 people who worked on Origins also worked on SM
Now THAT is something. That was the only time something as close as "a" team worked on 2 SH games.

>>4931092
> Then Konami disbanded them and put them on hold to the the arcade game, the comics, the PSP "experience" UMD, and the movie, ie to whore the franchise out as much as they could.

Konami did not want to make the movie. Gans wanted to make the movie. He pressured them for years and years and years, and they always said no. Only when the series was dying, after The Room, that they accepted, and the success of movie is pretty much the only reason the franchise was still alive after that.

>That's why you have Pyramid Head in the arcade game, in the movie, in HC, in minikart games, even though "Team Silent" had made a point of not using him again.

>That's why every other game down the line is about the protagonist dealing with psychological issues and a big monster representing said issues chasing them, even though only one game of the original had that

Okay, you're just parroting whatever you heard everywhere now instead of actually understanding the games and the movie.

So, let's start from the beginning:
in SH2, Pyramid Heads' main role are that of "god"'s executioners. This is pretty clear between the game extablishing the lore, between the painting with a PH on it, and the actions of all the PHs in the game.
Then, there is one "pretend rape" scene, which may represent James' sexual frustratation, but that doesn't change anything. Like established in the game with all the characters, and with James specifically, each takes the SH lore elements and sees them "his" way.
So if it's true, it doesn't change that PH's roles are that of executioner. Notice that I use the plural, there are at LEAST 2 different PHs in SH2, and only one of them in one scene may represent the protag's psyc issues. All the rest of the time they're just that, executionners...

[NESfag No.4931935]

[cont]
do you think that when they spend the game chasing and killing things they represent James' sexual frustration? When they kill Mary at the end?

Finally, James sees the dogs, the nurses, etc part of SH lore. Why only him should see PH? He may see it differently yes, but it's established as part of the SH lore like the rest.

Finally in NO other PH apparations do they represent people pysc issues:
>SH2: executioners
>The movie: "god"'s executioner
>HC: "god"'s executioner

The only game which has PH for no reason is SH the arcade, which I've had the chance to play. Only because it's just "let's not give a shit and shoot everything" type of game.

Last thing now:
>That's why every other game down the line is about the protagonist dealing with psychological issues

And who's fault is that? It's SH2's fault. SH2 almost completely disregarded SH1 to go in that direction, so after it became a mess because sequels had to base themselves on 2 first games with 2 completely different angles.

The FIRST game that mixed the 2 concepts and put them together in one game was The Room, and it was tacked on and awful. BTW, that one is a so called "Team Silent" game.

So, the next games had to base themselves on Team Silent: 2 first games with 2 completely different angles. A 3rd game which completely ignores SH2's angle, and a 4th which mixes the 2 awkwardly. So, that's what the sequels did, and that's what I meant by "they did what Silent Hill always was"


Origins:
>mixed the 2 angles awakwardly, like 4

SM:
>ignored the first angle and went full psyc, like 2

Movie:
>ignored the psyc, like SH3

HC:
>mixed the 2
But unlike the others, HC is the only well do it well, because they did not MIX the two, the 2 were there but seperate. The psyc issues are ONLY in the protag mind and are not the reason why shit is going down, and do not affect the shit all around.

[NESfag No.4931945]

btw I haven't had the chance to play Downpour, so I don't know about that

[Anonymous No.4931952]

>>4931945
Let me save you the time, don't.
Worse than Homecoming.

[NESfag No.4931964]

>>4931952
but HC is my favourite with the first one. It's the most solid all around with the best survival gameplay in the entire series.

[Anonymous No.4932043]

>>4931904
>The Room started as a non SH game
Not true at all. It had a codename like a lot of games, then a SH title.

[NESfag No.4932247]

>>4932043
That's what the wikipedia page claims, only to back it up with a link to an interview which never said that....

If anything that hints at the contrary, it doesn't say "we wanted to make 2 sequels after SH2", as both games were developped at the same time, the interview only says "we wanted to make a sequel after SH3".

[Anonymous No.4932306]

>>4929193
Have you seen a little girl? Short, black hair, just turned seven last month.

My name is Harry Mason, I'm in town on vacation.

[Anonymous No.4932415]

>>4932247
>We wanted to make a sequel after Silent Hill 3 and you could say that [the tunnel between worlds] was the initial concept, but upon that we needed to implement a lot of new flavour to the sequel, otherwise it would have been the same old Silent Hill. So for that, we created "The Room" as the concept for the game, so that we could use to represent the contrast between the normal and the abnormal life which changes suddenly.

[Anonymous No.4932436]

>>4931904
>what proportion of percentage of the team does "10 to 26" people make? A lot less than the majority, that's what
Again, it's not a secret that SH4 has less TS members on it because it was developed as a side project to SH3, which had the "main" members on it. Still, people like Akihiro Imamura (1&3 producer) and Masashi Tsuboyama (designer for 1&2) worked in 4.

A game isn't made by one person. Toyama didn't decide everything in SH1. Hiroyuki Owaku, Masahiro Ito, Akihiro Imamura, Masashi Tsuboyama, and Akira Yamaoka were responsible for several aspects of the game. Yamaoka has gone on record saying that nobody will ever understand SH1 except for Owaku because he's the one that wrote the story.

It's still one team. It's a team made of people who had failed at prior games, assembled to create a horror game to rival Resident Evil. It's a subdivision of KCET. It was treated as such by KCET itself. It was treated as such by themselves. So they're treated as such by fans. This is not a difficult concept to grasp.

The Room started as a non SH gme that TS wanted to develop as a back project, yes. And it turned into a SH game during development. What's the point? It'd still be developed by their "minor" members, so to speak.

>Does that make Goemon a "Team Castle" game?
It makes it a KCEK game. Castlevania 64, Legacy of Darkness and Circle of the Moon are KCEK games. So is Goemon. Yes, it's the same situation as TS, only even easier to tell because KCEK had its own logo that shows up in each of these games.

>58 people who worked on Origins also worked on SM
Yes, Climax worked on both games. What's your point?

>that whole diatrebe on PH
Whatever your mental gymnastics tell you, man. Still, the guy who designed said creature alongside the guy who wrote and thought of said creature has pic related to say.

You like HC so much you want to twist reality to make it seem "justified" as a member of the series. If it's so good, then just accept it it for what it is.

[Anonymous No.4932447]

>>4931945
Dont play it, its the worst, ever worse than HC. Its that bad...

[Anonymous No.4932458]

Who cares about who made what game? Who cares about some contrived and useless continuity between titles? If a game is good is good, and the first 4 games are unarguably better then the rest

[NESfag No.4932560]

>>4932415
I don't see how that proves anything... besides, do you really believe they'd say in an interview
>oh yeah, we decided to turn this game into SH half way through dev time and shoe-horned SH references in it to call it a day.

>>4932436
>mental gymnastics

What mental gymnastics? Pic related is from SH2, with this text

>"Misty day, remains of the Judgment."

and THIS is in a room about the history of Silent Hill. Jesus christ, it's not like I'm making this shit up, it's in the game, showing that in the lore of SH, PH is the executioner for 'judgement day'.
Considering you thought PH represented the psych issues in HC as well, even though there is no indication of that and all he does is execute people after God's judgement, maybe I shouldn't be surprised you didn't get that as well.

Yeah, James may see his guilt in PH, and Ito may feel strongly about that, but that doesn't change the other side of the story. Like I said, everything about SH2 tells us that James takes SH lore and sees it his way, and PH is established as SH lore as god's executioner with that painting in that room.

Both the movie and HC respected that, and were careful not to use James' personal vision.

>You like HC so much you want to twist reality to make it seem "justified" as a member of the series. If it's so good, then just accept it it for what it is.

Funny for me it's the contrary. The vast majority of the complains and supposed "issues" I heard about HC were always pure wrong. People had decided they were going to hate it before playing it because "not team silent" and will twist anything they find about it to try and prove that, or won't even try to understand and play the game for what it is. Like you saying what you said about PH in the game. Like people complaining that "the cheapscare with the wheelchair" is out of line for SH, forgetting about the locker cheapscare in SH1, etc etc

[NESfag No.4932573]

>>4932436
btw, what Ito says doesn't even go against any of what I said. You interpret it the way you want to.

All I see is that he was art director, he did not direct the game, wrote the story.

He was told to create PH in James' image, because like stated James sees everything his way.

Thus, he wouldn't like to see the exact same design re-used, doesn't make sense.

And guess what, PH does look different in the movie and in HC. It's not James' vision of it.

[Anonymous No.4933248]

>>4932447
The weird part about Downpour is I found the town to be so comfy. Like the light rain on a pacific northwest looking town just rubs me the right way.

So good job in that department, even though it's completely not what they were going for lol

[Anonymous No.4935139]

>>4929193
>Could it ever come back?
Not under Konami. Also it runs a huge risk of being modernized trash for GAYmurs anyways.
>>4929193
>Wouldn't it be great if konami made just one more proper game with same atmosphere as the originals?
Sure but I don't expect Konami or any company to ever match the atmosphere of SH1.

[Anonymous No.4936434]

>>4929193
>>4929201
>>4929516
>>4929787
>>4930359
>>4931092
>>4930870
>>4929729
Silent Hill 1 cannot be remade and there's a few reasons for it, more intrinsic to the title than the development team

1) The storyline is dated and is well known. To really remake the game more than just an HD remake (akin to RE2) some things would have to be mixed up and some of the puzzles changed and this would offend the fans.

2) Ahh but keeping the puzzles the same is one of the mechanics that is dated. Except for the Piano puzzle in midwitch elementary the puzzles are quite simple by today's standards, and it would be underwhelming compared to the improved graphics for it to be acceptable to add. There's also the prospect of a puzzle difficulty slider like they had in SH2 but still we're talking about an expected run in with a puzzle.

3) People expect Pyramid Head and the first game didnt have him. You could add Pyramid Head as a strong figment of alessa's unconscious hatred (like the other bosses, but this one moving around and recurring). Some purists wouldn't like this while it would be a welcome surprise to others.
> the first place he should be located IMO is when you pass through the locked door at the home with the doghouse, the darkness comes and the music changes - he should be waiting in the back yard as an obstacle to getting to the alley
> it should be an unexpected encounter without a scene cut, similar to the way it worked in the movie

4) Tank controls are out, so with a significantly more combat capable Harry Mason other aspects of the game are going to have to change too. Players also generally expect Inventory Limits on what you can carry these days. This would engender a Significant Change to the combat mechanics of the game.
> could have slowly regenerating health, health drinks alleviate fatigue caused by wounds for a short time so you can escape, limit on how many you can carry?

[Anonymous No.4936458]

>>4936434
> as harry is walking out of the house and darkness sets in you see PH raising his blade around the corner preparing to chop harry in half
harry is walking right into it just yammering about it being dark again
> seasoned gamers are going wtf PH isnt supposed to be here, and trying to scramble buttons to get back control of harry, this causes him to stop just short of being chopped and takes a step back towards the door, but if you werent button mashing he walks into it and dies
> -- if you kill PH his return is delayed until the hospital, otherwise the next encounter is in a rust hallway of Midwitch School, though at the school he will teleport around to different areas and try to ambush you when you come through doors. And will be combined with split head lizard and youll be forced to fight both of them at the same time.
> -- Next place he shows up is in the rust version of the Hospital

[NESfag No.4936982]

>>4936434
SH1 was already 'remade' once, and although it wasn't exactly a remake as it was at the same time a sequel to SH3, and it went relatively well.
I don't know if the "hardcore" fans complained about SM but they must have considering they always include it in the lot of "post team silent" games.

Either way the game was recieved well. If the game is good enough, the reviews will be good and noone will hear the discordant minority.

Then again maybe that only worked for SM because it was completely different, as not even the press was being objective about Homecoming.

One thing I'd like to see in a SH1 remake would be the last part of the game completely remade.

I always thought the last part of the game starting the lighthouse completely dropped the cake.

Before that you get the perfect amount of exploration, great pacing, 2 great dungeons...

Then starting the lighthouse all you get is linearility and re-hashed game parts, all pretty short too. The second sewer and Nowhere are the epitome of that, considering they're just rehasing what we've seen before but in a worse way.

So all that should go and we should have a proper 3rd dungeon instead. It could the attraction park which, after the Cybil fight, becomes a Nowhere that's not just the hospital.

> Tank controls are out, so with a significantly more combat capable Harry Mason other aspects of the game are going to have to change too.

It's not about the controls, it's about the camera point of view.
SH1 was already about giving tons of freedom of movement compared to other silent hill games: you can strafe, strafe circle, walk in all directions while aiming and even shooting, etc

Harry was already very combat capable considering the usage of all those close combat and fire weapons.

[NESfag No.4936991]

>>4936982
For instance the only thing HC added in terms of controls was the forward roll, and when we consider all the freedom of controls SH1 added compared to its contemporaries, it's barely nothing.
Then it changed the camera angle because fixed point 3rd person cameras were dead and nobody liked them anymore.

It all boils down to the camera angle. It has an incredible psychological effect on players, because of the camera angle everyone thought the protag was "more combat able".

In essence the only difference with Harry is the forward roll and the camera angle. If anything Alex is a lot less combat able considering how much harder it is to either dodge or kill enemies in HC than in SH1/2/3/4. But the camera angle changes the perspective considerably...

[NESfag No.4937369]

Another thing about SH1 is that the worm and moth boss(es) suck. They suck gameplay wise and they suck theme-wise...
What is this, "let's do like Resident Evil and have giant insects?"
Totally uninspired as far as Silent Hill is concerned. Also don't give me the "You don't get it! It's because Alessa has a butterfly collection!". There is nothing smart or deep about that, she only does because that's the only excuse the devs found to justify their uninspired boss designs.

so I'd expect to see those fuckers replaced in a remake.

Otherwise that's about it. Fix the end game, fix those 2 bosses, find a way to make supplies tighter (everything BUT the way SH3 did it), and that's it. Otherwise SH1 is a great game.

[Anonymous No.4937375]

>>4930870
He's not really wrong about a lot of the douchie stuff he said, but he still did a pretty shit job

[Anonymous No.4939679]

You dudes should go watch Jacobs ladder. It's an eye opener how much they stole from that film. They even stole the fucking wheel chairs.

[Anonymous No.4939682]

>>4936434
please stop posting

[Anonymous No.4939685]

>>4937369
I like those bosses, I think they are creepy in a strange way. Probably my favourite bosses in all Silent hill (bosses in this series are generally a bit sloppy).

[NESfag No.4939703]

>>4936434
I can't think of a better way to incorporate PH in SH1 than what the movie did.
It should be there but it shouldn't be a boss. It would hunt and execute people from the cult and/or people who hurt Alessa, but like in the movie it could lose its discernment and take time to realize that not exactly everyone in this world is guilty.
Thus, depending on the player's action and on what ending he's going for, PH could be the one to kill Cybil.

[Anonymous No.4939736]

>>4929193
SH franchise is dead and this is great. Look what they did with RE! Fatal Frame is the only one keeping classic horror feels

[NESfag No.4939946]

>>4932573
>>4932560
Here is another evidence from SH2.
Walter Sullivan was seeing PH, too.

[Anonymous No.4940343]

>>4939946
Jimmy Stone was the red devil, not Pyramid Head

[Anonymous No.4941207]

>>4939679
The wheel chairs are from Session 9.

[Anonymous No.4941245]

>>4929193
>Sony have the director of SH1 employe in SCE Japan Studio.
>Nintendo have(had?) the director of SH2 employe in good feel (the developer of yoshi woolly world)
>None of them is doing a SH spiritual sucessor

It amaze me, at least in sony case would sells better than gravity rush 2 desu.

[Anonymous No.4941271]

>>4941245
>None of them is doing a SH spiritual sucessor
Sony at least tried with the Siren games, but aren't good.

[NESfag No.4942153]

>>4940343
Okay now, but do you genuinely believe they had the story of 4 all figured out when they were making 2? When it was decided so later on to make 4?

Why else would, at the same time, James refer to PH as "Red Pyramid" while this newspaper article refers to "Red devil MONSTER" ?

SH4 may have changed things, or rather used things which were vague enough, or maybe I'm wrong and they HAD the story of 4 all written down already, but either way it backs up what I'm saying:

Why would Jimmy Stone use a triangular red hood to perform ritualistic executions? Because he's using the PH lore. Because PH is part of a the lore, so James isn't the only one to see him.

[Anonymous No.4942598]

>>4937369
The moth and worm bosses fit into the theme of metamorphosis and Cheryl's love for butterflies.

[Anonymous No.4942821]

>>4930870
>>4937375
The voice acting in the original 4 games are all endearing and fit their respective characters. Look at what they did with the voices in the HD remake and tell me it gave the EXACT same impact that the original actors did in the original versions. I wouldn't believe you.

[Anonymous No.4942846]

>>4942821
James sounds like a confused retard and Eddy sounds like a fat idiot.

You're objectively wrong.

[Anonymous No.4942852]

>>4942846
>James sounds like a confused retard and Eddy sounds like a fat idiot.
...
You do realize that was the entire point to their voice direction...right?

[Anonymous No.4942856]

>>4942846
>James sounds like a confused retard and Eddy sounds like a fat idiot
>You're objectively wrong
Doens't sound like you've disproved shit, honestly. You've actually helped make my point.

[Anonymous No.4942857]

>>4942856
The average IQ around here drops to double digits come summertime.

[Anonymous No.4942861]

>>4929193
Silent hill is back! In pachislot form!

[Anonymous No.4942875]

Siren ps3 might be your cup of tea j

[Anonymous No.4942879]

>>4942861
fuck off milhouse

[Anonymous No.4943865]

>>4942153
Yes, it was retconned, the "Red devil at the end of the corridor" message was literally foreshadowing the Pyramid Head behind the bars part. SH4 wasn't even written by the SH2 writer by the way, but he certainly didn't mind the SH4 writer expanding on the lore of the older games by developing unexplained things from the older games into an actual game.

[Anonymous No.4944076]

>>4929193
silent hill was dead in the water when they decided to make SH2
why give a game that doesn't need a sequel a sequel that doesn't have anything to do with the first game?

[NESfag No.4944113]

>>4943865
Not to mention that the message talks guilt and not accepting what happened, exactly like James and his situation with PH.

So why do people still insist only James should see PH? If they wanted you to believe that, they wouldn't talk about it through a newspaper and a museum on the history of Silent Hill.

> but he certainly didn't mind the SH4 writer expanding on the lore of the older games by developing unexplained thing

How do you know he didn't mind? To do you think he's going to spit all over his colleagues decisions, past or present?
The only reason someone like Ito opens his mouth is because he doesn't work in the industry anymore and probably doesn't want to, and when he does he's NOT spitting on the work of Jap colleagues.

[Anonymous No.4944281]

they shouldn't put pyramid head in a new silent hill game because its overdone. as far as monster/creature designs go, i feel like after doing that shit 10 million times it loses its scare factor.

[Anonymous No.4944489]

>>4944281
excuse me? Pyramid Head IS Silent Hill, moran.

[Anonymous No.4944567]

>>4944076
>why give a game that doesn't need a sequel a sequel that doesn't have anything to do with the first game?
Money? Have you ever played a Final Fantasy game?

[Anonymous No.4945210]

>>4941207
>Silent Hill: 1999
>Session 9: 2001

>>4944281
He's only been in 2 main SH titles out of 8.

[Anonymous No.4946836]

>>4941207
Only in that one part in SH3 which they just straight up copied from the Session 9 poster

[Anonymous No.4946840]

>>4945210
>He's only been in 2 main SH titles out of 8.
But that's still one too many, though

[Anonymous No.4949697]

>>4929193
Nah, too much a product of the late 90s to still work today.

[NESfag No.4949726]

>played upcoming again maybe for the 4th or 5th times
>replayed the last fourth of the game 3 times to get all the endings I missed

>all that time I barely ever used a single serum and always saved them

>MFW only after all that I google some shit and realize serums increase your max hp and when you have them all it doubles your hp bar

Well I feel stupid now. No wonder I was getting raped so much against some bosses. Tbh it did make the game a lot more intense for me, I thought the game was very unforgiving which brought a lot of tension, and it's still the case, but a bit less so now that I know that.
Although health items don't heal a % of the max, always the same amount, so I guess it doesn't change THAT much outside of boss rape after all.

[Anonymous No.4950312]

>>4944113
>So why do people still insist only James should see PH? If they wanted you to believe that, they wouldn't talk about it through a newspaper and a museum on the history of Silent Hill.
Because every other monster, including Maria, was specifically made for him, as was the town's changes.
The only people who ever see Pyramid Head are James and Maria, and the only reason Maria sees it is because she was specifically tailored for James.
Take for example, Eddie, who never sees Pyramid Head despite being in the same building as it.
Eddie also has his own nightmare, that being represented by hanging pieces of meat, football stuff and the bodies of people he shot.
Same with Angela, who sees the Doorman and fire, and we only see those when her nightmare and James' overlap.
There's also the fact that Pyramid Head, after becoming two (which is because James has now killed two people, Eddie and Mary), kills itself after James eliminates that part of his guilt, rather than go to torture somebody else.
And in a translated quote from Lost Memories, we have
>"Pyramid head." Takes the appearance of an executioner of times past, but is actually incarnated from the part of James' consciousness that feels that he deserves punishment.
http://silenthillchronicle.net/creat2.htm
Also, the Walter article can be inferred as another manifestation of the town, that SH4 later retcons

[NESfag No.4951170]

>>4950312
This is besides my point and I've already say it but I'll say it again. Actually let me try another take.

James' Silent Hill isn't just "his" nightmare, it's a mix of "his" and of Silent Hill lore. Take the environments for instance, they're all based on Silent Hill places even the most nightmarish of them.

Then, there are the nurses and the dogs, directly taken from SH1.

Then, there is the Rebirth ending, clearly telling us the old Gods are still there.

In SH2 with James' personal psychological view of the SH world, they completely change the reason for Silent Hill to even exist compared to SH1, to the point it can be considered a retcon depending on your definition of the word.

So they had to back up all that up and that was how they did it. They tell us the two are intertwinned, James' only sees all he sees because of what happened in the town and everything he sees is also based on the town.

That is also how they back up PH.
Yes, all you say is true, but all of that is James' PH.
With the painting in the historical museum, the game tells you that James' view of PH is based on a real executioner of the town God's.
With the press article, the game tells you that PH manifested himself in the past to another man who needed it, another man who did something but wouldn't admit it to himself.
Yes, Eddie and Angela don't see him, because they don't need to. Like you say, they disappear after James says "I don't need you anymore".

History museums and press articles are for world facts. If the game wanted to believe he was only for James', they wouldn't use those means to give PH a backstory.
This is also backed up by how James' can read Angela's story through a newspapers. Again, just telling him the world's facts.

Finally, even if the newspaper bit has been retconned by SH4, it still backs up the fact that the executionner with a red hood is part of the SH lore, because that is EXACTLY the design that Jimmy Stone uses for being "the Red Devil".

[NESfag No.4951186]

>>4951170
Then, there are SH2 fanboys who think the game is holy and who will either look too deeply into the interpretation to find things which aren't there, and who will conveniently dismiss anything that they thinks tarnish their holy game, even things that are in SH2. These are the people who write all kinds of wikias and fan sites.

That is how they'll never talk about how SH2 completely changed the reason for shit to happen in the town of Silent Hill; but will claim the movie and Homecoming mis-used PH.
All those two did was to follow what SH2 established as SH lore with PH.

The PH painting shows "Judgement day", telling us PH is God's executioner, and that is what both the movie and HC did, use him as God's executioner when God needed retribution.
And then there are those same SH2 fanboys who will misinterpret everything and make up a story of how PH in HC may represent Alex' guilt while nothing in the game hints to that. That is because, like you, they're stuck into James' view of things, which is only viable in James' mind in SH2.

[Anonymous No.4951256]

>>4941245
>>4941271
>"I've worked on horror for a long time," he replied, "so whenever I work on something different, I can't help but come up with new horror-oriented ideas. So I'd like to make another horror game someday, but the thing is, unlike in the past, I think it's become kind of hard to make horror games. To some extent, horror is a good match for the 'B' genre, in terms of taking advantage of low budgets for the maximum return and maximum quality. However, we're now in an environment where B-grade titles are simply being priced out of the retail-software market. I think making a pure horror AAA console title is going to be really difficult going into the future. Instead, if I have a chance to make something like Journey that you can complete in two or three hours, but still offers an intense horror experience, I'd love to try that."

Says a lot that Sony consider Franco-Belgian anime inFamous less of a risk than a new Siren.

[Anonymous No.4951816]

>>4951170
>Then, there are the nurses and the dogs, directly taken from SH1.
The nurses in SH1 and SH2 have different designs and meanings.
In SH1, they're called puppet nurses as they're controlled by a parasite and have a humpback. They represent the "puppets of the order keeping Alessa alive".
In SH2, they look like regular but sexualized nurses as they represent his anxiety about Mary's illness as well as his sexual deprivation.
And there aren't even any dog enemies in SH2. They were in SH1 because Alessa has a fear of dogs, the only dog in SH2 is the one in the Dog Ending.
>Then, there is the Rebirth ending, clearly telling us the old Gods are still there.
They never said they weren't.
>In SH2 with James' personal psychological view of the SH world, they completely change the reason for Silent Hill to even exist compared to SH1, to the point it can be considered a retcon depending on your definition of the word.
You'd have to be a retarded NESfag to think it's a retcon. Silent Hill always had a spiritual power, and in SH1 it was corrupted by the cult's practices, and after Harry kills the God, the spiritual power now calls people who feel guilty (which usually just means killers) to Silent Hill to repent for their sins. By SH3, the town is once again being used by the cult.
>So they had to back up all that up and that was how they did it. They tell us the two are intertwinned, James' only sees all he sees because of what happened in the town and everything he sees is also based on the town.
But not everybody can see Pyramid Head dumbass. Everybody sees their own punishment in different ways. Why didn't Eddie or Angela get their own Pyramid Head? Because they weren't in James specific situation, the reason why the Pyramid Head looks like an executioner is because James is in denial he killed Mary, so P. Head 'executes' Maria multiple times to remind him of his sins.

[Anonymous No.4951838]

>>4951170
>With the press article, the game tells you that PH manifested himself in the past to another man who needed it, another man who did something but wouldn't admit it to himself.
That is your own interpretation. Pre-4, that was just foreshadowing P. Head's appearance in the hotel, and could easily be written off as another manifestation by the town.
>Finally, even if the newspaper bit has been retconned by SH4, it still backs up the fact that the executionner with a red hood is part of the SH lore, because that is EXACTLY the design that Jimmy Stone uses for being "the Red Devil".
But that doesn't mean some megafaggot in Homecoming should be able to see P. Head. I already explained why P. Head is specific to James and his situation, and if everyone can see him, why didn't he pop up in any of the other Team Silent games? Why did the devs behind Downpour admit that he was specific to James?
>That is how they'll never talk about how SH2 completely changed the reason for shit to happen in the town of Silent Hill
Because it gets explained that the spiritual power got corrupted by the God and the occultic rituals.
>All those two did was to follow what SH2 established as SH lore with PH.
No, the movie made up its own lore about witch burning puritans and Homecoming was the beta for Kojima's SH movie fanfiction
>The PH painting shows "Judgement day", telling us PH is God's executioner, and that is what both the movie and HC did, use him as God's executioner when God needed retribution.
Why isn't he in SH1 or 3 then? Why doesn't he show up in SH4? Fuck, SH3 has Valtiel, where is Pyramid Head though?
Oh. It's because Pyramid Head was modeled after the cult's executioners who wore red hoods.
>That is because, like you, they're stuck into James' view of things, which is only viable in James' mind in SH2.
Because Pyramid Head isn't the God's executioner, that is a retcon by Homecoming and the movie, which are objectively non-canon just because of the town design alone

[NESfag No.4953484]

>>4951816
>The nurses in SH1 and SH2 have different designs and meanings.

I know that. My point is, it's fine to re-use an iconic monster and give it another meaning when SH2 does it but it's not when another game does it from SH2? Even when the base meaning remains the same?!

>You'd have to be a retarded NESfag to think it's a retcon. Silent Hill always had a spiritual power, and in SH1 it was corrupted by the cult's practices, and after Harry kills the God, the spiritual power now calls people who feel guilty (which usually just means killers) to Silent Hill to repent for their sins. By SH3, the town is once again being used by the cult.

There is nothing in SH1/3 that hints that "the town" has powers. It all comes from Alessa/Heather and the baby inside her, with the help of Claudia in 3. This is the reason why in SH3 all the same shit as what happens in Silent Hill, also happens outside of Silent Hill in the first part of SH3.

Only SH2 has that "town power" aspect, and even then it's never made clear whether it's because "of the town itself" or because of what the Cult did to this town, and all the hints lean towards the later...

Which is also the explanation given in 4 and HC: it's because Cultists making rituals or pacts with God.

>But not everybody can see Pyramid Head dumbass. Everybody sees their own punishment in different ways. Why didn't Eddie or Angela get their own Pyramid Head? Because they weren't in James specific situation, the reason why the Pyramid Head looks like an executioner is because James is in denial he killed Mary, so P. Head 'executes' Maria multiple times to remind him of his sins.

That doesn't go against anything I said. In SH2 every character sees his own hell mixed with SH lore, they each see what they need to see.


>that was just foreshadowing P. Head's appearance in the hotel, and could easily be written off as another manifestation by the town.

[NESfag No.4953487]

It's not foreshadowing as much as it is explaning. Foreshadowing would be seeing PH through the bars. The newspaper article starts explaining PH, and again like you conveintently dismiss with your "it's just the town!" bs, newspapers in the game are used to tell world facts, outside of James' personal realm, like the article about Angela.
Why else would they use a newspaper article? They are plenty of other ways to foreshadow something. There is also the painting explaining PH as God's Executioner, located in a history museum, again something meant to show world facts, but I'm sure you can "easily" brush that away, or any lore SH2 establishes, with your "it's just the town!" mentality.


>But that doesn't mean some megafaggot in Homecoming should be able to see P. Head. I already explained why P. Head is specific to James and his situation, and if everyone can see him, why didn't he pop up in any of the other Team Silent games?
>Why isn't he in SH1 or 3 then? Why doesn't he show up in SH4? Fuck, SH3 has Valtiel, where is Pyramid Head though?

You're mixing everything up. You talk as if PH is only real to Alex in Homecoming because you're trying to apply SH2 James logic while that logic only applies to SH2. In HC everything points out that PH is part of the lore, like his representation on the church stained glass.
The shit going on in HC has nothing to do with Alex, it follows SH1/3 logic in which everyone is in the same hell. The Founding Fathers failed their pact with God and thus God uses PH to punish them, there is a reason why he sees Alex in the hotel and does nothing to him, same reason why he's looking for the founders families and why he kills Alex's fathers: they're the faulty ones.

Just like in the movie, he works as God's executioner, just like established in SH2 lore.

Nobody needs God's punishment in the other games, except maybe for SH1 but that's like asking why we see no trace of Travis, they just didn't exist yet.

[NESfag No.4953489]

>Why did the devs behind Downpour admit that he was specific to James?

I'd like to see where that happened, because last time (ITT) someone used an interview to back up their fantaisies, nothing in the interview actually backed it up.
But if it's true, I can tell you the reason is right here in this thread, because of people like you. A good example is Gans, he was a big SH fan and begged Konami for years to make the movie, then made the ultimate fan movie.
He was as respectful as possible to the franchise, going as far as not accepting his producer's wishes to add cheap scares because "that's what the general audiance excepts of a horror movie".
He used PH in the same role as what's established in SH2 lore, while making sure not to step in James' vision of him because that wouldn't make sense.
What did he get in return? A minority of vocal SH2 fanboys who were too busy nitpicking on anything that's different (because retelling the very same story we know would have been great, right) to enjoy the result, while distorting everything else.

Years later he said doing a movie that way was a mistake, and that's part of how we got the atrocious Revelations 3D.

You just can't please these people. SH2 is the 2nd coming of christ and they're willing to destroy anything else by being as dishonest as possible.
The same thing happened with Homecoming, so I'm sure the devs of Downpour came to that conclusion easily.


>Homecoming and the movie, which are objectively non-canon just because of the town design alone

The movie is obviously not canon, since it's a "parrallel universe" with a different story.

[NESfag No.4953492]

But saying Homecoming is not canon is being dishonest, and using "town design" as 'proof' is the most dishonest excuse I've ever seen.

The town is different for gameplay reasons, what fun is there in revisiting the same areas again and again?

I suspect the only reason SH3 re-used a part of SH2's design was so they could quickly, and cheaply, not only gain 1h+ of extra gameplay (town+hospital) but also have at least ONE place in the game with some actual freedom of exploration (the town), as all the other areas in the game are as small and repetitive (design wise) as they could get away with.
The town and the hospital are the same so they could make a game quickly. Saying it's because of "canon" reasons is fooling yourself.
I'm always amazed when people complain that Resident Evil 3 re-used a small part of the RE2 police station, but SH3 somehow gets away with something 10 times as big, executed in a worse way (there is NOTHING to do in the town, not even a single reward for exploration as not supplies can be found outside the bar). Dishonest SH2 fanboyism at its finest. Even classic RE fans admit when they see bs.

[Anonymous No.4953631]

>>4953484
>My point is, it's fine to re-use an iconic monster and give it another meaning when SH2 does it but it's not when another game does it from SH2?
Except they aren't the same monster and have completely different designs. They don't even attack the same, the only similarity is that they're both nurses, and even then, SH1 had puppet doctors as well.
>Even when the base meaning remains the same?!
There is a difference between P. Head being used to torture James and force him to remember the fact that he killed Mary and P. Head showing up in Homecoming for no adequately explained reason and turning his actual head into a glorified hat.
>There is nothing in SH1/3 that hints that "the town" has powers.
Silent Hill 2 retroactively explains how Silent Hill 1 can happen and doesn't change the meaning or anything you tard.
And 4 goes on to explain that the rituals do have their own power but SH2 explains that the town already had a magical presence which is why so much shit happened in SH1.
>Only SH2 has that "town power" aspect, and even then it's never made clear whether it's because "of the town itself" or because of what the Cult did to this town, and all the hints lean towards the later...
Actually, if I recall, the Book of Lost Memories does mention Native American tribes being drawn to Silent Hill because of a spiritual power.
>Which is also the explanation given in 4 and HC
>HC
Homecoming literally can't be canon to anything other than the movies based on the map, not even going into the garbage lore.

[Anonymous No.4953654]

>>4953487
>It's not foreshadowing as much as it is explaning. Foreshadowing would be seeing PH through the bars. The newspaper article starts explaining PH, and again like you conveintently dismiss with your "it's just the town!" bs, newspapers in the game are used to tell world facts, outside of James' personal realm, like the article about Angela.
Fine then, here's an example directly from Silent Hill 2.
There is an item in the game called 'The Crimson Tome' and it refers to the cult's God as the 'Crimson One'. In other words, the 'Red Devil' Walter talks about.
>There is also the painting explaining PH as God's Executioner, located in a history museum, again something meant to show world facts, but I'm sure you can "easily" brush that away, or any lore SH2 establishes, with your "it's just the town!" mentality.
The painting only says "Misty days on the rains of judgement", and yes, you can infer that to be another manifestation.
>You're mixing everything up. You talk as if PH is only real to Alex in Homecoming
No I'm not retard. I'm saying why doesn't fucking everybody in all the games see him if he was intended to be 'God's Executioner' when he wastes his time chasing some chump who killed his wife.
>In HC everything points out that PH is part of the lore, like his representation on the church stained glass.
Yeah, HC works real well with Silent Hill lore. Is it the only game you played mate?
>Just like in the movie, he works as God's executioner, just like established in SH2 lore.
Again, the movie functions on its own lore, the town isn't even in the same state in the movie, let alone the same lore.
>Nobody needs God's punishment in the other games, except maybe for SH1 but that's like asking why we see no trace of Travis, they just didn't exist yet.
Origins is also a game that royally fucked up the timeline they made by forgetting to check when Harry's jeep was made.

[Anonymous No.4953665]

>>4953489
>It can't be by accident. There's a reason. When I had Pyramid Head in the first comic, I was just thinking of creatures. But I didn't realize creatures had a purpose. In hindsight, I know better. In this new comic, creatures relate exactly the sins of this man's past.
And link here https://www.destructoid.com/interview-tom-waltz-from-comics-to-silent-hill-8-180084.phtml
Tomm Huelett, the guy in charge of Silent Hill for the most part at the time also admitted this.
>But if it's true, I can tell you the reason is right here in this thread, because of people like you.
Oh boo hoo, blow it out your ass you cunt. I don't give a shit if some namefag starts trying to ride my ass because some guys who made shit games said some things that invalidate part of your argument.
>He used PH in the same role as what's established in SH2 lore, while making sure not to step in James' vision of him because that wouldn't make sense.
He probably used P. Head because he was told to mate. Even back then he was the most popular monster.
>The same thing happened with Homecoming, so I'm sure the devs of Downpour came to that conclusion easily.
People didn't like Homecoming because it was shit and the devs talked just about as much shit as the HD Collection guys.
>But saying Homecoming is not canon is being dishonest, and using "town design" as 'proof' is the most dishonest excuse I've ever seen.
Homecoming completely changes the town layout and is based more on the movie's town design with the cracked steaming holes from the coal mine fire (that only happened in the movie)
>The town is different for gameplay reasons, what fun is there in revisiting the same areas again and again?
Why did they need to go back to Silent Hill if they were dealing with the cult again? SH3 spent a quarter of the game in another city and SH4 was mostly in Walter's dream world and Henry's apartment. HC goes to Shepard's Glen and then the main characters gets teleported to SH via headaches

[Anonymous No.4953669]

>>4953492
>The town and the hospital are the same so they could make a game quickly. Saying it's because of "canon" reasons is fooling yourself.
I'd honestly rather have SH3 than Origins' mess of a town design (adding a third hospital to a resort town, two of the hospitals being mental institutions)

[NESfag No.4953789]

>>4953631
>There is a difference between P. Head being used to torture James and force him to remember the fact that he killed Mary and P. Head showing up in Homecoming for no adequately explained reason and turning his actual head into a glorified hat.

Why is this so hard to understand? Why are people so stuck up James' vision they fail to see the grand picture?

I've never argued with anything PH represents for James. The point is, what happens to James is a mix between Silent Hill and his own psyche. He sees Silent Hill through his own mind, but it's still Silent Hill as a base.

It is exactly the same with PH, yes it's "his" PH that represents his "guilt" and bla bla bla, but it like everything about Silent Hill that gets shifted for him, it didn't come out of thin air, it's based on a real thing.

And that real thing is God's executionner in SH lore. Why else the newspaper telling us someone else saw him? Why else the painting in the history museum of the town directly referencing a biblical scene, Judgement Day, with PH as executioner?

>The painting only says "Misty days on the rains of judgement", and yes, you can infer that to be another manifestation.

"Only" says?! and another "manifestation" of what?! Why do you insist on dismissing any proof the game lays out that you don't like under a petty "oh, that point doesn't matter" excuse ? Just so you can keep claiming HC and the movie did it wrong?

>Silent Hill 2 retroactively explains how Silent Hill 1 can happen and doesn't change the meaning or anything you tard.

Yes it changes tons of things. In SH1 it's all about Alessa's power. Now that Alessa was gone, they claim "the town has remnants of the power", but they remain vague about it so we don't know whether it's because some cult is still active or because "it's The Town itself!".

[NESfag No.4953797]

>>4953654
>>4953789

That IS a change, and it's a convenient change they made JUST as an excuse to make a sequel, and they remain vague about the reasons just enough so the next sequels could decide.

On top of it they add that it turns into "each person's personal hell", something never talked about in that same manner in another sequel, and that it "attracks people".
All of that is just very convenient for their story.

You can say whatever you want about the story issues of HC or Origins, but if you were objective and coherent you'd admit that stuff in SH2 is just as bad.

>>4953665
>Homecoming completely changes the town layout and is based more on the movie's town design with the cracked steaming holes from the coal mine fire (that only happened in the movie)

Town design argument again? really?
Also what's that about the steam and coal? Each game has visual completely different from the one before.

>HC goes to Shepard's Glen and then the main characters gets teleported to SH via headaches

What's your point and how is it different from Harry constant teleporting in SH1?

[Anonymous No.4953825]

>>4953789
>It is exactly the same with PH, yes it's "his" PH that represents his "guilt" and bla bla bla, but it like everything about Silent Hill that gets shifted for him, it didn't come out of thin air, it's based on a real thing.
But that doesn't mean Pyramid Head should show up constantly. Him showing up in the movie and Homecoming is lazieness on part of the art direction and creature design and has a shoehorned in "deeper" meaning.
>Why else the newspaper telling us someone else saw him?
I explained that. There is an item in SH2 called the 'Crimson Tome' and it references the cult's God as 'The Crimson One'. You chose to ignore that.
>and another "manifestation" of what?!
Something created by the town to spook James and remind him of his sins. That was the point of Pyramid Head, to remind James he killed Mary by having P. Head kill Maria throughout the game. Him showing up in a painting not too long after Maria died for the first time is a reminder of that.
>Yes it changes tons of things. In SH1 it's all about Alessa's power. Now that Alessa was gone, they claim "the town has remnants of the power"
No, they explain via the Book of Lost Memories that the town always had a power and the cult used Alessa's psychic abilities to twist that spiritual power to resurrect the God, and afterwards, the town's power is twisted still and draws in people who have sinned.
>but they remain vague about it so we don't know whether it's because some cult is still active or because "it's The Town itself!".
You brought up the rebirth ending earlier, but you clearly never got it seeing as the items required to get it contain all the info you need.
>That IS a change, and it's a convenient change they made JUST as an excuse to make a sequel
And this change fits within the established lore of SH1 and adds to it, rather than take away meaning like Homecoming and just make a monster with established symbolism and meaning a generic boogeyman.

[Anonymous No.4953843]

>>4953797
>On top of it they add that it turns into "each person's personal hell", something never talked about in that same manner in another sequel, and that it "attracks people".
It's never talked about again because 3 was about the cult influencing the power again, and 4 wasn't in Silent Hill. Downpour does it again, but poorly as it changes if Murphy even killed anybody between endings.
And despite never being talked about again, the later games constantly rip off SH2.
Origins, aside from the Alessa bullshit that fucks up how astral projection works in SH, is about Travis facing his "inner demons", that being his mother and father, and it goes full generic with the 'Travis was the butcher all along!!!11!1' ending.
SM is about Cheryl going to a psychologist to face her "inner demons" about her dad being dead. They also rip off a lot of psychology talk from the Making of Silent Hill 2 video.
Homecoming is about Alex facing his 'inner demons' for having killed his brother and some shit about his dad. They even have Pyramid Head.
Downpour is at least blatant about it, where the creative team said they were going to ripoff SH2 in interviews.
>You can say whatever you want about the story issues of HC or Origins, but if you were objective and coherent you'd admit that stuff in SH2 is just as bad.
SH2 didn't try to set up a timeline of events like Origins or throw the God back in for shits and giggles. It had explanations for everything that happened and how it correlated with the first game and doesn't invalidate any info from the first game.
>Each game has visual completely different from the one before.
SH2 and 3 took place on the other side of the town from SH1, that's why they look different.
SH4 isn't in Silent Hill.
Origins actually works.
SM changes the whole layout, but it's AU anyways.
Homecoming and Downpour completely change the layout and design for no real reason.

[Anonymous No.4953848]

>>4953797
>What's your point and how is it different from Harry constant teleporting in SH1?
Harry never teleported in SH1.
In the intro, it's blatant that Cybil took him to the cafe.
The only other instance in SH1 that can be seen as teleporting is when Harry goes through the hole in the antique shop and passes out, but when he's talking to Lisa, it's an obvious dream sequence, and he wakes up in the exact same place as before. The reason Cybil couldn't find him when she went through was because the town removed him from existence for a period of time and put him in Alessa's mind.

[Anonymous No.4953850]

PH is like one those gorillions Amnesia clones you have on Steam, and just a tech demo with that, but since it's written Kojima on the cover, people will slurp it like no tomorrow.

[Anonymous No.4953859]

Just played this on my PS TV with some comfy noise cancelation headphones and the lights off. Never again.

[NESfag No.4953873]

>>4953825
>Something created by the town to spook James and remind him of his sins.

Why would the painting depinct a biblical scene and show PH as God's tool? And why have the painting in a history museum about the town? All that is "just a spook" ?
Pretty clear that the devs intended to write PH as part of SH lore and show his real origin behind James' vision of him.

There are much smaller and farfetched things fans decide to interpret as "story depth" but somehow this is brushed off.

>I explained that. There is an item in SH2 called the 'Crimson Tome' and it references the cult's God as 'The Crimson One'. You chose to ignore that.

What does the Crimson Tome have to do with the newspaper article?

>No, they explain via the Book of Lost Memories

Yeah, like I said. They explain their changes AFTER so it fits their sequels. SH1 never mentionned that, SH2 did the change

> rather than take away meaning like Homecoming

It didn't take away meaning, it wouldn't make sense to use James' personal twisted vision of things, they used PH's original meaning as protrayed in SH2

>Homecoming is about Alex facing his 'inner demons' for having killed his brother and some shit about his dad. They even have Pyramid Head.

No no no, I'm talking about how in SH2, each persons sees his own twisted view of things in Silent Hill. That is never dealt with again, except arguably with SM which is its own thing. Take 1, 4 or HC for instance, all the characters live through the same silent hill. For instance in HC the hell is everyone's, not the protagonist's personal view, and HC has nothing to do with the protag either.

>SH2 and 3 took place on the other side of the town from SH1, that's why they look different.

You're changing the subject. You were talking about pipes and coals and other hell design. The hell design elements are different for every game, there are only similarities in 1/3/0 because they're all about Alessa and even then they still have differencies.

[NESfag No.4953878]

>>4953873
For instance 2 and 4 each have completely different visual "hell design"

>when Harry goes through the hole in the antique shop and passes out, but when he's talking to Lisa, it's an obvious dream sequence, and he wakes up in the exact same place as before. The reason Cybil couldn't find him when she went through was because the town removed him from existence for a period of time and put him in Alessa's mind.

Okay, so he doesn't teleport but he does. Gotcha. Good old dishonesty again.

[Anonymous No.4953884]

>>4953873
>Pretty clear that the devs intended to write PH as part of SH lore and show his real origin behind James' vision of him.
Well, they had 2 more games to do that and Team Silent never did it. You're drawing this entire interpretation from Homecoming
>What does the Crimson Tome have to do with the newspaper article?
Walter claimed he saw the 'Red Devil'.
Red Devil
Crimson One
I'm sure you can work this out.
>Yeah, like I said. They explain their changes AFTER so it fits their sequels. SH1 never mentionned that, SH2 did the change
And this lore doesn't take away from Silent Hill 1 and in fact adds to it. It's like complaining that Alessa's reincarnation is blonde and named Heather.
>It didn't take away meaning, it wouldn't make sense to use James' personal twisted vision of things, they used PH's original meaning as protrayed in SH2
Please source this claim that PH is God's Executioner in SH2. You have yet to do that, and I expect a screenshot or at the very least a video link. I've sourced all my claims you wanted sources for, so pony up.
>That is never dealt with again, except arguably with SM which is its own thing.
And Downpour. Maybe if you played the games you'd know what you're talking about, but you don't.
>You're changing the subject. You were talking about pipes and coals and other hell design. The hell design elements are different for every game, there are only similarities in 1/3/0 because they're all about Alessa and even then they still have differencies.
No, I was talking about Homecoming's town design, which has cracked steaming holes only seen in the movie.
>For instance 2 and 4 each have completely different visual "hell design"
Because 4 is Walter's nightmare, his literal dreamscape, most of the time.
>Okay, so he doesn't teleport but he does.
It's not teleportation though. He is removed from reality for a period of time and put in an obvious dream sequence.

[NESfag No.4954021]

>>4953884
>Well, they had 2 more games to do that and Team Silent never did it. You're drawing this entire interpretation from Homecoming

Since you're so keen on Book of Lost Memories, maybe you ought to have a look at the description of PH for SH2 there:

>Takes the appearance of an executioner of times past

Now see, even the "canon book" you're using as back up says it.

>Red Devil
>Crimson One
>I'm sure you can work this out.

Those are 2 different things. Red Devil was intially PH until retconned by SH4 as Jimmy Stone. Crimson One is God.

>And this lore doesn't take away from Silent Hill 1 and in fact adds to it. It's like complaining that Alessa's reincarnation is blonde and named Heather.

The point was: SH2 did some heavy changes, but gets a pass. The movie and HC use PH respectfully to his true form as shown in SH2: somehow that's not okay.
All I see is SH2 fanboyism double standard.

>Please source this claim that PH is God's Executioner in SH2

The painting you keep brushing off as "doesn't matter". "Judgement day" couldn't be any clearer in a story about religious.

>I was talking about Homecoming's town design, which has cracked steaming holes only seen in the movie.

Those are "hell design". The town wouldn't have those if hell didn't break loose.

>Because 4 is Walter's nightmare, his literal dreamscape, most of the time.

So yes, the games have different hell design. So why are HC's ones a problem because they're different? It's not Alessa's hell, or James', or Walter, it's the hell made for the entire Founders families and the cult. Why are the steam and other design a problem for being different when they should be different?

[Anonymous No.4954056]

>>4954021
>Now see, even the "canon book" you're using as back up says it.
Except I referenced that line earlier and didn't cut off part of it to drive home my narrative like you.
The full quote is
>"Pyramid head." Takes the appearance of an executioner of times past, but is actually incarnated from the part of James' consciousness that feels that he deserves punishment.
Also, executioner of times past means he was the old prison camp executioner, not this bullshit about God's executioner.
>Those are 2 different things. Red Devil was intially PH until retconned by SH4 as Jimmy Stone. Crimson One is God.
Crimson is derived from the colour red. The cult's God can also be seen as a devil (Goat's head and all), and if you say Walter was a cultist, then that means you are rewriting your understanding of 2 with 4, which means you may as well say he saw Jimmy Stone.
>The point was: SH2 did some heavy changes, but gets a pass.
No it didn't. All it did was establish Silent Hill had an always present spiritual power, which isn't a heavy change as in SH1, they never outright say that SH never had a spiritual power, they just say Alessa was a powerful psychic.
>The movie and HC use PH respectfully to his true form as shown in SH2
They parade him around for marketing you tard. P. Head is the most popular monster in the series.
>The painting you keep brushing off as "doesn't matter". "Judgement day" couldn't be any clearer in a story about religious.
It says 'Misty days on the rains of judgement'. Pyramid Head was derived from an executioner of times past for a prison camp, an executioner delivers judgement.

SIDE NOTE: Made a mistake. Crimson Tome is from SH4, the book I'm referencing is the 'Crimson Ceremony' from SH2, which is required to get the Rebirth ending. This book contains the passage about the cult's God, referring to him as the 'Crimson One', and in Walter's case, a 'Red Devil'.

[Anonymous No.4954435]

Samael is the final boss of SH1. Prove me wrong.

[Anonymous No.4954682]

>>4954435
Everyone knows this.
Samael = Baphomet = Incubus
Also, NESfag permanently and irreparably BTFO

[Anonymous No.4954692]

It would be great but it will never happen. I'm a huge fan of horror games and I've search forever for something that comes even close to Silent Hill, but there was a certain magic that team silent had that will never be replicated.

[NESfag No.4955481]

>>4953884
>It's not teleportation though. He is removed from reality for a period of time and put in an obvious dream sequence.

Okay, let's pretend "it's not teleportation" even though it literaly goes by the definition of it considering the body is removed to be placed somewhere else. How is it a problem that one one hand, we take a body from point A to transport it "in Alessa's mind" like you say, and that the other hand we take a body to transport it to point B? All I see is an arbritary decision to claim one is fine while the other is stupid, and if the situations were reversed and SH1 had teleport from point A to B and HC had the "teleport into dream" sequence, you'd also claim the later is stupid.

>>4954056
>Except I referenced that line earlier and didn't cut off part of it to drive home my narrative like you

Not at all, the point was, like the canon book says, PH's true form was that of "an executioner of time past", and that James' vision of him is only his. Thus, not the real vision, thus he did indeed exist as an executionner.

Considering that the whole PH discussion started because you claimed it didn't make sense that PH exists outside of James' mind, and that now you say

>Also, executioner of times past means he was the old prison camp executioner

I don't know how permantly and irreparably BTFO I am.

Now, I have no idea where you pull this "prison camp executioner" idea from, but even if we take it from granted, even if we claim the painting doesn't have biblical references when other things in the same museum room were religious, I don't see how it could be a problem
that one hand, Silent Hill takes this old executioner to put it into James' mind, while on the other hand, takes this executioner image to be god's executioner.

>>4954056
>Crimson is derived from the colour red.

Okay now that's farfetched. Why would they intentionally not use crimson directly then and risk confusion when PH is defined as Red Pyramid by James

[Anonymous No.4955482]

>>4954682
>NESfag permanently and irreparably BTFO
What, again?

[Anonymous No.4955495]

>>4955481
>Okay, let's pretend "it's not teleportation" even though it literaly goes by the definition of it considering the body is removed to be placed somewhere else.
Harry is removed from existence for a period of time, as he clearly isn't in the hospital. It's an obvious dream sequence. The town didn't teleport him anywhere.
>SH1 had teleport from point A to B and HC had the "teleport into dream" sequence, you'd also claim the later is stupid.
Homecoming devs weren't smart enough to create an actual reason for Alex to go to Silent Hill (despite there being no need for every game to take place in Silent Hill as 4 showed)
That's the reason why teleportation was there.
>Not at all, the point was, like the canon book says, PH's true form was that of "an executioner of time past", and that James' vision of him is only his. Thus, not the real vision, thus he did indeed exist as an executionner.
You miss the part where they say 'BUT IS ACTUALLY'. He takes the appearance of a prison camp executioner from times past, but is is really James' desire for punishment manifested. Not God's executioner.
>Considering that the whole PH discussion started because you claimed it didn't make sense that PH exists outside of James' mind, and that now you say
Not in his mind dumbass, not how it works. Pyramid Head can't exist without James. That's how it works. He's physically present in Silent Hill
>Now, I have no idea where you pull this "prison camp executioner"
Toluca Prison was influenced by the cult, and the executioner's wore hoods that paid homage to Valtiel
>takes this executioner image to be god's executioner.
You're construing one word to mean 'OMG PH IS GOD'S EXECUTIONER' while justifying it with fanfiction published by Konami
>Okay now that's farfetched
Not as far fetched as saying 'Judgment = God'?
Crimson is a different shade of red man. And the book was called the 'Crimson Ceremony'.

[Anonymous No.4955842]

>>4930870
>>4931058
>SH2's voice acting
>terrible

SH2 voice acting is great, anyone who thinks otherwise is a fucknugget. Idiots who expect cheesy action movie delivery. They are the type of people who thinks Blade or the Saw franchise is the peak of horror movies, and only played Silent Hill because they thought Pyramid Head looked cool. Fucking worthless idiots who shouldn't find employment anywhere.

>>4931271
Shattered Memories might be the worst in the series. No enemies except when it's "exciting ice world running time!!!" Even then, the enemy design is so fucking generic, literally the same enemy morphing into slightly different shapes. The puzzles are retarded, gimmicky shit for actual dimwits. It's the easiest game out of the bunch. The characters and story are absolute new cringe compilation 2018.

Absolute snorefest that has nothing to do with the original.

>>4931964
>HC
>most solid "all around"

I know you like the survival mechanics of that game, but that is the only thing it has going for it that might surpass the originals. Atmosphere is not a meme in SH, and the originals do it better. HC's story and pacing is weak. The interface with health bars and button prompts is shit.

[Anonymous No.4955859]

I dream about a world where SH1 got a PS1 sequel. I absolutely love the 3D aesthetic of the first game. Much of it is lost in the sequels. The barren town with the café and the school feels very Twin Peaksy and mysterious.

Everything comes together as this creepy mystery-solving adventure, you just can't let it go until you get to the end. SH2 and beyond doesn't really feel that way, but it's hard to explain why.

[Anonymous No.4956609]

>>4931904
>Okay, and let me ask out, what proportion of percentage of the team does "10 to 26" people make?
Old post, whatever, but those 10 apply to SH4. You claimed SH2 was done by "some other people" when it was basically the same team. Fuck you, goalpost-moving piece of shit.

[Anonymous No.4956635]

>>4955842
>SH2 voice acting is great, anyone who thinks otherwise is a fucknugget. Idiots who expect cheesy action movie delivery. They are the type of people who thinks Blade or the Saw franchise is the peak of horror movies, and only played Silent Hill because they thought Pyramid Head looked cool. Fucking worthless idiots who shouldn't find employment anywhere.
This doesn't upset me, I'm actually happy that somebody out there actually enjoyed this clearly weak aspect of a great game

[Anonymous No.4956891]

>>4956609
NESfag is the kind of guy that defends the merits of Silent Hill Homecoming.
You shouldn't take him seriously when it comes to talking about this series, just look at how hard he tries to bring down 2 to justify sucking off Homecoming

[Anonymous No.4958724]

>>4955859
I'm with you. The shittier it looks, the scarier that feels.

[Anonymous No.4960815]

>>4929452
>Could it be done in first-person?

Look up a Doom mod called "Soundless Mound". It's only a demo but it might be close to what you want.

[Anonymous No.4960826]

>>4956891
You shouldn't take him seriously about any series. This is the guy with such cognitive dissonance that he calls out Quake for having a section with forced damage while pointing out that his favourite FPS, DN3D does this within seconds of starting the game but it's totally not really a big deal. It's staggering.

[Anonymous No.4963235]

They'd have to recapture the surreal quality of the first three.
SH 1-4 for PS4 when?

[Anonymous No.4963251]

>>4963235
The issue with that is the contracts VAs signed, so PS2 classic treatment won't work for 2 and 3 due to dead VAs.

[Anonymous No.4964449]

>>4963251
They could maybe remake the games REmake style.

Well, they did that with Shattered Memories and SH1.

[Anonymous No.4965126]

is the first person mod for silent hill 1 out yet?