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/vr/ - Retro Games

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4918951 No.4918951 [Reply] [Original]

>Final Fantasy VII - 1997
>Bushido Blade - 1997
>Final Fantasy Tactics - 1997
>SaGa Frontier - 1997
>Front Mission 2 - 1997
>Einhänder - 1997

>Xenogears - 1998
>Bushido Blade 2 - 1998
>Parasite Eve - 1998
>Brave Fencer Musashi - 1998
>Ehrgeiz - 1998
>Chocobo's Dungeon 2 - 1998

>Final Fantasy VIII - 1999
>SaGa Frontier 2 - 1999
>Legend of Mana - 1999
>Front Mission 3 - 1999
>Threads of Fate - 1999
>Chrono Cross - 1999
>Parasite Eve II - 1999

>Vagrant Story - 2000
>Final Fantasy IX - 2000

If we cut modern game budgets and dev teams in half across the board, do you think games would go back to being as good as they used to?

>> No.4918953

>>4918951
Of course they would. The reason smaller teams make better games is because they have to innovate around problems or come up with intelligent solutions; they can't just throw bodies at the problem until they work. I mean, take for example Kojima; he wanted to make a game, but no one would listen to him, so he ended up doing a majority of it himself on paper first.

>> No.4918954

>>4918951
Enix was always better.

>> No.4918959

>>4918951
None of the games you posted are good, though.

>> No.4918962

>>4918959
EPIC
SIMPLY
EPIC

>> No.4918967

>>4918959
Okay, I'll take the bait for this one. What is your problem with Bushido Blade, of all things?

>> No.4918975

>>4918967
Final Fantasy series are shit.

>> No.4918981
File: 72 KB, 210x243, 1528070111227.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4918981

>>4918975
Your problem with Bushido Blade is that Final Fantasy is shit?

>> No.4919000

>>4918975
4/21 games are Final Fantasy
>none of those games are good

are you even trying?

>> No.4919008

>>4918975
The anon who asked, hello. I don't understand this one. Outside of the developer, there's nothing FF about it in the game presentation. Do you know what the game is about?

>> No.4919016

>>4918951
A good chunk of those games were massively high-budget for the time, with large dev teams. FF7, for example, spent around US$214 million (adjusted for inflation) between development and a massive marketing spend in the US alone, and Parasite Eve 2's development team was IIRC split between Japan and LA for reasons that probably made sense at the time.

>> No.4919018

>>4919016
Japanese developers were obsessed with traveling for authentic atmosphere in their games. Parasite Eve, in particular, was priding itself on being "American".

>> No.4919020

>>4919016
And yet they still came out with 5-6 games a year spanning a multitude of IP's. Compare that today, where even including all of the third party devs they plublish for they only release 2-3 games per year, and most of those fall into the same three IP's; Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest or Kingdom Hearts

>> No.4919384

>>4918953
>take for example Kojima; he wanted to make a game, but no one would listen to him, so he ended up doing a majority of it himself on paper first.

Since when has Kojima ever wanted to make games? The guy has been making pseudo movies pretending to be games for years.
>>4918951
>If we cut modern game budgets and dev teams in half across the board, do you think games would go back to being as good as they used to?

Now as for your post, this still wouldn't fix games. Modern technology pretty much requires large teams for that AAA development. Small teams would need to take way to long on one game just to finally ship it. In short, gaming technology got too advanced and I would also say that the thinking/desire from developers to even truly make great games like in the past isn't there either. A lot of them might think they want to make great games but their thinking is all fucked up in the first place. Think of all of these shitty social justice western developers. You think these people don't want to make what they think is good games? That is their thinking. They just also think making good games is shoving in their shitty ideology as well. So the thinking itself is fucked. If you want good games again like the past you're going to have to have the industry rolled back to lesser technologies and to a point where games weren't as popular. This is impossible.

>> No.4919404 [DELETED] 

This Square bootlicking is getting out of hand. The company isn't great for people not into JRPGs (yes, they exist here), and even some JRPG fans find a lot of their games too basic in terms of gameplay.

>> No.4919662

>>4918951
Vagrant Story is terrible though.

>> No.4919670

>>4919404
Bushido Blade and Einhander are great games.

>> No.4919674

>>4919404
Squares JRPGs basic to what JRPGs? This would include things like the SaGa series as well.

>> No.4919679

Xenogears alone makes Super Famicom - PS1 era Square top-tier.

>> No.4919684 [DELETED] 

>>4919674
>a lot of their games

>> No.4919686

>>4919684
As I said, compared to what other JRPGs?

>> No.4919712 [DELETED] 

>>4919686
No idea, I'm not one of them

>> No.4919717

>>4918951
New games are good. You'd know if you played them.

>> No.4919730

REMINDER WE ARE HAVING A BUSHIDO BLADE TOURNAMENT HERE ON V TONIGHT

IN JUST TEN HOURS

>>>/v/424965231

>> No.4919732

>>4918951
>If we cut modern game budgets and dev teams in half across the board
You'll end up killing them off.
>do you think games would go back to being as good as they used to?
Take off your nostalgia goggles.
Out of the games you listed there's maybe five good games that aren't entirely propelled by either graphics or the company's name.
FF has always been mediocre, Bushido Blade and Tobal were jokes nobody ever took seriously because they were mechanically unsound, Xenogears is a cut movie, PE never stood out because of its dubious nature as a Horror Survival game with RPG elements, Front Mission 3 was the worst game in the series and Legend of Mana, while possibly one of the very best games in the series still plays horribly.

And even among the better titles in there you have SaGa Frontier suffering from a horrible development history which led it to have tons of cut content and some of the most unbalanced gameplay in the series, while Frontier 2 had to share the dev team with LoM, making it an extremely small game with very little content and questionable design choices even for the series' standards.
Then you have Einhänder being an ok hori and Dewprism being a standard action RPG with nothing particularly interesting about it, same with Chocobo Dungeon, a fairly mediocre roguelike series which is only ever remembered for the FF brand associated to it.

Even if I had to bring out the more interesting and obscure games like Internal Section, the golden age of Square is supremely overrated and not really better than what came after it, unless you're awfully blinded by nostalgia and/or blind adoration for Sakaguchi I guess.

>> No.4919848

>>4918951
I miss the days when Square was good. Square Enix is fucking trash.

>> No.4920805

>>4919732
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63UlBsdElsY

>> No.4920826

>>4919848
SaGa Scarlet Grace is better than any game on OP's list though.

>> No.4920838
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4920838

>>4918951
Don't be sad it's over, be happy it happened

>> No.4920887

>>4918951
>>Vagrant Story - 2000
Their last great game.
RIP square :(
>If we cut modern game budgets and dev teams in half across the board, do you think games would go back to being as good as they used to?
Those games were had high budgets anon, so no.
>>4918954
What you're thinking of as Enix is probably an entirely different studio as they hardly made any games, they published games from lots of small studios who never get any credit. Just like we see right here.
>>4919662
Check out this rube.

>> No.4920895

>>4920887
Squaresoft was also a publisher. Publishers end up getting the credit because their name is the most prominent, especially in the /vr/ days.

>> No.4921386

>>4918951
No amount of budgeting cuts can fix lazy and unoriginal businessmen these days.

>> No.4921475

>>4919404
>JRPG fans find a lot of their games too basic in terms of gameplay
What JRPG fan would give a shit about that. 90% of JRPGs have incredibly uninspired identical gameplay.

>> No.4921554

Some people blame Square for ruining Enix and some people blame Enix for ruining Square. The fact of the matter is that S-E realised that there are way more western citizens playing games than there are Japanese game players so we are stuck getting Eidos Crap and generic western styled catering. To continue to operate like they did in 97 to 2000 would be a horrible business move.

Pop Culture is without borders now, and thanks to easily available marketing data and social media data, we are left with bland cultureless, hyper-targeted pap.

It's like you went to your favorite restaurant in Japan after 20 years of being away and come to find out they only sell McDonalds grade cheese burgers now because everyone in the fucking world loves cheeseburgers.

>> No.4921668

>>4921554
Couldn't have put it better, Square is just giving everyone what they think they want instead of making stuff that would be good game idea like in the past (isn't Final Fantasy gameplay just a KH rip off now?) and then produce it well, at least that's the way for most of their international releases, handhelds have suffered less the transition I think but smartphones are taking care of that now, after all, it's their way of getting some quick profit back from their massive budget games.

>> No.4921809

>>4919384
>Modern technology pretty much requires large teams for that AAA development frivolity.
Fixed. A team of 20 guys can absolutely make a proper game still. It just won't be as pwetty with the big gwafix and bloom wowie wow!

The problem is devs and consumers being faggots who want pretty shit instead of games.

>> No.4921814

>>4921668
>isn't Final Fantasy gameplay just a KH rip off now?
FFXV plays way worse than KH2.

>> No.4921863

>>4918959
(you)

>> No.4921870

>>4919732
>(you)

>> No.4921931

>>4921863
It's true though. Moste Square games of this era were somke and mirror. It was the era of 3D games and they still released games with 2D environments where you played on still pics instead of real 3D environment. That's what killed the quality of their games the gen later when they had to make real 3D games but they still had camera problems because of their lack of experience.

>> No.4922165

>>4920826
Scarlet Grace is a game that appeals to a very specific niche, you can say it's better designed and mechanically a lot more interesting than any of the games in the OP, but it's never going to be critically acclaimed because it is very unusual for a RPG and it's low production values don't help its cause.

Also, it's not hard to beat piles of trash like Bushido Blade or Final Fantasy, even something like Blood of Bahamut is better than those, any Squenix Mana game plays drastically better than LoM despite lacking the mechanical depth and so does KH, even the western side of Squenix has made better games that most of the stuff in that list, though of course, /vr/ will never admit it out of a misplaced sense of pride and brand loyalty.

>> No.4922174

>>4921814
Imagine being this retarded

>> No.4922926

>>4918951
>>Final Fantasy VII - 1997
>>Final Fantasy VIII - 1999
>>Final Fantasy IX - 2000

only good games

>> No.4924479

>>4922174
You sure showed me.

>> No.4924510

>>4918954
Yeah, Hong Kong 97 was definitely a fantastic game.

>> No.4924579

>>4921554
>The fact of the matter is that S-E realised that there are way more western citizens playing games than there are Japanese game players so we are stuck getting Eidos Crap and generic western styled catering.
What is "Western-styled catering" about recent Square-Enix releases? They seem as heavily Japanese as ever to me. Do Noctis and Prompto seem like "Western" protagonists to you?

>> No.4924598

>>4918951
I mean Octopath is good as fuck so yes

>> No.4924653

>>4919384
>Since when has Kojima ever wanted to make games? The guy has been making pseudo movies pretending to be games for years.

Super neat opinion bro, did you come up with that all by yourself?

>> No.4925678

>>4919679
Yeah this

Really made me think when a large portion of the team left to make monolith soft and square started to decline

>> No.4925885

>>4919000
>HUURRRR DURRRR LOOK AT ME I'M SO CONTRARIAN AND DIFFERENT AND INTELLIGENT GIVE ME ATTENTION HURRRR

>> No.4925936

>>4925678
Too bad that the Xenoblade games are average trash

>> No.4926032

>>4919679
Xenogears plays like utter trash.

>>4924598
Acquire made Octopath.

>> No.4926479
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4926479

>>4918975

I HAVE A PLAN
IT INCLUDES (YOU)

>> No.4926483

>>4918951
I'm also a weeb but you're asking us to get bullied with that list.