Both released in the same year, whats the better RPG?

[Anonymous No.4889893]

I've had alot of fun with both, what do you think /vr/?

[Anonymous No.4889902]

>>4889893
You cant do this to me anon. I love them both

[Anonymous No.4889903]

>>4889893
The one that doesn't have an autistic fanbase of soulbounders

[Anonymous No.4889908]

>another derivative clone with an autistic teenager's favorite narrative
>one of the best games ever made, a blueprint for cRPG design

Wow, we sure have a tough one.

[Anonymous No.4889919]

>>4889908
>blueprint for crpg design...

Uhh no, crpgs were almost a dead genre by the time fallout came out. It more revitalized the genre.

[Anonymous No.4889924]

>>4889893
The one that's an actual RPG and not a turn based strategy game where you command a small number of troops with a crappy story attached.

[Anonymous No.4889925]

battles in VII >>>>>>>>>>> battles in fallout

[Anonymous No.4889952]

>>4889908
Fallout
>those bugs
>those unfinished quests
>those quests that act like they have multiple solutions but really only one because of bugs.
>that shitty fucking inventory
>that shitty unskippable animation every time you loot a container or use an item
>that bugged AP ammo
>rng can end your game even more mercilessly than nethack, the only defense is save scumming.

It's not that great
You got nostalgia goggles

[Anonymous No.4889957]

>>4889925
That's subjective.

I love FFVII, but if we're being objective here Fallout is by FAR the best RPG.

I'm not saying it's a better game, or that one is more fun than the other, but as a roleplaying game Fallout is just on a completely different level from any Final Fantasy.

[Anonymous No.4889958]

>>4889924
fo1 can be completely beaten by itself, both are RPG's you fucking moron

[Anonymous No.4889965]

apples and oranges

[Anonymous No.4889981]

>>4889925
Fallout deserves to be remade in the Jagged Alliance 2 engine.

[Anonymous No.4889984]

>>4889958
Final fantasy is not an RPG series. You do not make actual decisions outside of what attacks to make in battle. There is a complete wall between your decisions and the character decisions, and if you don't want to do something Cloud wants to, well fuck you!

It's a strategy game, not an RPG. Most "JRPGs" are in fact strategy games.

[Anonymous No.4889986]

>>4889957
This. You can compare FF7 to other console RPGs, but against a proper roleplaying experience like Fallout it's not even in the same ballpark.

It helps that FO1 can be beaten in a dozen or so hours but allows a lot of fucking around with optional quests and dialogue.

[Anonymous No.4890025]

>>4889893
Final Fantasy 7

American RPGs are no good.

[Anonymous No.4890249]

>>4889893
Neither of those shitty games. My vote goes to M∞N: Remix RPG.

>no autistic repeating battles to get points for a progress system
>amazing world-building, story, atmosphere, music, art, and writing
>too good to be released in the west and experienced by baka gaijins

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPzKfuYQwiU

[Anonymous No.4890254]

>>4890249
OP didn't ask what was your favorite he asked which one is fucking better moron

[Anonymous No.4890259]

>>4890254
He implied which was the best 1997 RPG, so I gave him the Answer.

[Anonymous No.4890262]

>>4890259
I didn't imply that, I'm OP

[Anonymous No.4890263]

>>4889893
I like FF7 more. Fallout is an amazing RPG, but I have more fun playing FF7.

[Anonymous No.4890267]

>>4889893
Both are a broken mess, but at least FO is an actual RPG, FFVII is a movie with some generic gameplay on the side that was already archaic the moment it released.

[Anonymous No.4890271]

>>4890249
>pretending to read Japanese makes me superior to you
Go back to /a/ faggot

[Anonymous No.4890272]

>>4890262
Well then fuck your rules, this is now a 1997 RPG's general.

[Anonymous No.4890281]

>>4890271
EOPlebs should be gassed, tbf.

[Anonymous No.4890286]

>>4889893
Fallout allows you to be a dirtbag drug addict who kills people with a flamethrower, so it's obviously superior.

[Anonymous No.4890391]

>>4889893
I guess it depends on how you define "better."

If profitability is the definition, it's FF7.
If critical and player praise is the definition, it's FF7.
If long reaching effect on the genre is the definition, it's FF7.
If plot duration and complexity is the definition, it's FF7.

If character freedom and choice is the definition, it's Fallout.

[Anonymous No.4890398]

>>4889893
Woah, I never knew that Fallout got a Playstation port.

[Anonymous No.4890453]

>>4890281
Nah the problem is with people posturing about how “superior” they are on an anonymous forum online because they can read some kana and played some obscure meme game that needs treat like solid gold because it was never released in the west
Also butthurt third worlder detected.

[Anonymous No.4890471]

I always forget ff7 doesn't have analog support when I go to play it and then I'm like uhg

[Anonymous No.4890474]

>>4890398
To be frank, Baldur's Gate almost did, there's a beta floating around the internet and to be frank it could have been a very impressive port all things considered.

[Anonymous No.4890491]

>>4890398
for some reason i'd like to have seen a gameboy port for it

[Anonymous No.4890545]

>>4889893

*blocks your path 2 years later*

[Anonymous No.4890551]

>>4890545

forgot pic

[Anonymous No.4890578]

One of the greatest console RPGs of all time and the peak of its medium vs a pretty good fedora computer rpg.

nice topic

[Anonymous No.4890583]

>>4889902
Sprite sauce?

[Anonymous No.4890584]

>>4890578
Why is one of the greatest console RPGs of all time such a massive bore with a faggy edgelord for a main villain?

[Anonymous No.4890641]

>>4890453
> the problem is with people posturing about how “superior”
Except nobody was posturing and it's a brainlet faggot who thinks that more knowledge doesn't make someone superior started to cry about it first.

[Anonymous No.4890872]

>>4890584
The only faggy edgelord I see is you

[Anonymous No.4890902]

>>4889984
Wow, i didn't know someone could be this fucking stupid.

Yes, the rpg elements are relatively minor in FF, but it's still a rpg you colossal retard.

[Anonymous No.4890918]

>>4889984
I really hate your kind. There's no "decisions" in 99% of all CRPG's ever made, western or japanese. Between Wasteland and Fallout you could barely find anything similar, 9 fucking years.

[Anonymous No.4890945]

Fallout of course.

But as someone else said, apples and oranges. They're completely different types of games, despite both having RPG in the genre title.

[Anonymous No.4891101]

>>4889893
Is this thread for real? Fallout wasn't even a household name until Bethesda bought the franchise. FFVII when it came out was widely regarded by many as the objective GOAT game ever made and even today many still make this claim. I've never once seen Fallout 1 get such praise even by its own fanbase. Might be their favorite game yeah but they wouldn't dare say it is the best game ever made.

[Anonymous No.4891314]

>>4890902
Unfortunately, it's not the first time I've seen that brain-meltingly retarded argument here. It seems like there's a contingent of people so autistic that any RPG that doesn't try to simulate the open-ended nature of tabletop roleplaying simply doesn't count as an RPG. Their brains seem quite literally incapable of reasoning beyond that.

>>4891101
Also it was Baldur's Gate as much as Fallout that revitalized cRPGs. Perhaps moreso.

[Anonymous No.4891319]

>>4890902
>Yes, the rpg elements are relatively minor in FF, but it's still a rpg you colossal retard.
Every factor you could list to call Final Fantasy an RPG would also apply to War Wind 2, which is considered a strategy game by everyone.

>>4890918
Yes there are. Literally any game in which you had the power to pick sides among competing factions or to pursue a goal because you the player want to rather than Protagonist the Character wants it.

>>4891314
No, all I demand for a game to be an RPG is to have non-tactical player decision-making. It doesn't need to be some sort of complete sandbox open world. It does need you to control your character(s) motivations rather than being informed what they are and subject to them.

[Anonymous No.4891607]

>>4890902
>only has minor RPG elements
>qualifies as a full blown ROH
(you) can only pick one

[Anonymous No.4891616]

>>4889984
This.

JRPGs are a cross between strategies and playing through a movie, everything is already made, the plot, the decisions, etc. You only get to control the battles and your equip screen.

They're meant to tell stories, and the way you get to the next scene is by pressing "A"

[Anonymous No.4891647]

>sleek resource management sim
>clunky iso shit with choice and consequence
FF7 is the better game. Infinitely more polished. UI that doesn't make you want to strangle its creator. Pleasure to look at. But Fallout is the better RPG. That isn't saying much though, since between the two it's the only RPG.

[Anonymous No.4891657]

>>4890583

Baraduke, last boss.

[Anonymous No.4891924]

>>4891319
>Yes there are. Literally any game in which you had the power to pick sides among competing factions or to pursue a goal because you the player want to rather than Protagonist the Character wants it.

So like Romancing Saga, SMT or Soul Cradle and unlike Wizardry, Dungeon Master, Baldur's Gate or IceWind Dale?

[Anonymous No.4891931]

>>4891924
>Baldur's Gate
Nice bait, faggot.
The rest are dungeon crawlers, and SMT wouldn't even exist without Wizardry, so what exactly is your point?

5/10 made me respond

[Anonymous No.4891939]

>>4891931
So Dungeon Crawlers aren't RPG's? Baldur's Gate isn't an RPG?

>SMT wouldn't even exist without Wizardry

And? You pick sides among competing factions.

[Anonymous No.4891961]

>>4891939
Yes, they are RPGs, but the heyday of dungeon crawlers was the fucking 1980s on computers. Computers which didn't have enough power to render big worlds and complex interactions to enable roleplaying. To compare that with late 90s/00s japanese RPGs is either trolling, or being appallingly ignorant.

Baldur's Gate has plenty of choices and consequences. Having a linear main quest doesn't preclude you from being a fairly open cRPG. Most are in fact like this.

[Anonymous No.4891971]

>>4891961
>Computers which didn't have enough power to render big worlds.

That's complete bullshit, there was incredibly complex games for PLATO in the late 70's.
Ultima IV for an Apple II, also Metal Max in a fucking NES.

>compare that with late 90s/00s japanese RPGs is either trolling

Only Soul Cradle is 00's. SMT and RomaSaga were made in 1992, but I could give you enough examples from any year.
And are you trying to say they only did blobbers 99% of the time because they didn't have better technology? And that they didn't do a shitton of blobbers until mid 90's? Let's not even talk about how commonly those blobbers used the best available technology.

>Baldur's Gate has plenty of choices and consequences.

No it doesn't, and I don't even know what you're talking about. If you mean having an open world there's plenty of JRPG's and games from other genres that have that. Starting with Metal Max in a fucking NES (also it's a lot more open than Baldur's Gate).

You act like Fallout 2 was somehow the norm of WRPG's, when it was an exception.

[Anonymous No.4892204]

>>4891319
>No, all I demand for a game to be an RPG is to have non-tactical player decision-making
Demand all you want, but that ship sailed at least 30 fucking years ago. So either use appropriate language in a discussion or go see someone about your autism.

[Anonymous No.4892286]

>>4891961
>Baldur's Gate has plenty of choices and consequences. Having a linear main quest doesn't preclude you from being a fairly open cRPG. Most are in fact like this.
The problem is that all the choices are pre-programmed and in no way resemble what it's actually like to play through a storyline where the narrative is controlled by a smart and creative GM who can adapt the details on the fly based on player actions. Videogames invariably use highly deterministic framework where players often wind up having make arbitrary, ignorant choices because they don't have the relevant knowledge about what the NPCs are programmed to do or how the pre-programmed narratives are going to unfold. Meanwhile the result is just getting to see one narrative unfold instead of the other one, which you'll have to play through the game a second time if you want to see.

Some games choose to forgo a strong central narrative to enable more freedom and player influence on the ultimate outcome of the world; or they might manage to devise a uniquely appropriate narrative for a videogame that can work in an open-ended way.

But for games that want to tell a story, but don't have the ability of a GM to adapt that story on the fly based on player actions, the obvious and most sensible option is to simply limit the player's ability to make those kind of major faction choices that would prevent the story from being told.

[Anonymous No.4892342]

>>4889893
left: poser
right: patrician

[Anonymous No.4892397]

>>4889958
btfo'd

[Anonymous No.4892406]

>>4892286
>Meanwhile the result is just getting to see one narrative unfold instead of the other one, which you'll have to play through the game a second time if you want to see.

That could be some Black Isle or Obsidian games, but Baldur's Gate only had one narrative, one story, one ending. It doesn't matter if you play with a good or an evil guy, it's not even late-Bioware basic level of morality. You can't join the iron throne, you can't convince anyone not to fight or play any chapter in a different order or with a different result.
I don't get were are all those choices people seems to see.

Why Baldur's Gate it's supposed to be open and full of choices and FFVII some linear-cinematic experience? It doesn't make any sense.

[Anonymous No.4892418]

>>4889957
>fallout is better because it has more roleplay
That's a bad argument because the name of the genre, jrpgs don't intend to use roleplay as a major mechanic.

[Anonymous No.4892420]

>>4892418
>because despite the name
fixed

[Anonymous No.4892428]

>>4892406
>I don't get were are all those choices people seems to see.
For the sake of doing some chronicle work: Baldur's Gate lets you choose multiple ways of infiltrating the Bandit Camp, there are some conflicting NPC quests, and the biggest "choice and consequence" element is whether you help or kill Aldeth Sashenstar in his scuffle against local druids - depending on your choice you get slightly different quests and items later, and Aldeth's brother is apparently a vengeful sort.
Baldur's Gate II lets you choose either the Shadow Thieves or Bodhi, and there are multiple ways of solving most of the Spellhold/Underdark questlines - getting to Spellhold itself can be done in various ways, Underdark can be bruteforced, you can choose to completely skip the Underwater City of the Sahuagin, etc. Granted, most of those are fairly miniscule choices.

Those are all examples of C&C that come to my mind. Whether they count as a great or sparse variety of choice and consequence is up to each anon - I'm just relaying what I know.

On a personal note, I think the greatest amount of choice in BG is found in how you decide to pick companions for your party, since they can sometimes interfere in certain dialogue or questlines (e.g. Korgan has an axe to grind with Mencar Pebblecrusher and will always force you to fight him - of course, that's a moot point, as you *obviously* want to kill Mencar and his buddies for all the loot they have).

[Anonymous No.4892493]

>>4892418
They do, just not in the autistic "must be able to make faction-level decisions that lead to different outcomes in the world" definition of roleplay.

For example, early in FF5, your ship gets attacked and after fighting through an "undead ship graveyard" you wind up on the coast having no idea where you are or how to get to your original destination. You wander the countryside until you discover two points of interest to discover (a mountain which is the next level) and a town where you can learn about the dungeon, rest, and pick up supplies.

The point of that scenario is to convey the feeling of being shipwrecked and lost, how you get your bearings and figure out how to continue you journey now that your ship is lost. That clearly designed as a roleplay experience using only the basic JRPG systems and a linear narrative progression.

Games that aren't RPGs tend to not do things like that, and instead focus only on the fun of gameplay mechanics themselves with maybe a bit of theming.

[Anonymous No.4892497]

>>4892493
You wander the countryside until you discover two points of interest: a mountain which is the next level) and a town where you can learn about the dungeon, rest, and pick up supplies.
I need to stop rushing

[Anonymous No.4894090]

>>4889908
no one gave a shit about Fallout back in 97. I bet more people played Fallout 1 after 2008 than back when it was released.

[Anonymous No.4894101]

>>4890249
is this another episode of ''this game so good only because it isn't available in the west?

[Anonymous No.4894245]

>>4892493
I think you really don't understand what roleplaying in a cRPG is. I don't know how to do explain this to you, since you sound deliberately ignorant. None of the jRPGs mentioned in this thread have the amount of choices given to you even in Baldur's Gate, and especially in Arcanum/Torment/Fallout etc. You don't have multiple ways to tackle a quest, you can't determine your party members, you can't kill NPCs, you can't develop your character in extremely different ways.

[Anonymous No.4894283]

>>4894245
If we are talking about choices Baldur's Gate is closer to FFVII than to Fallout or Arcanum. Have you even played the game?

[Anonymous No.4895040]

>>4894245
>I think you really don't understand what roleplaying in a cRPG is
No, I think you don't.
>You don't have multiple ways to tackle a quest, you can't determine your party members, you can't kill NPCs, you can't develop your character in extremely different ways.
First, that's not really true. But even if it was, that doesn't make what I described not roleplaying. The linear, narrative-oriented approach to videogame roleplay has been a commonly accepted way to do it since the fucking 80s and you seem to be the only one too retarded to understand.

Nothing I said precludes counting multiple story branches or having to make permanent build and party choices as roleplaying. But, don't be silly and pretend like having 1+n predetermined story branches rather than 1 story branch is anything close to approximating what you get with a legitimate GM in a tabletop setting.

[Anonymous No.4895085]

>>4895040

i think the salient distinction to be made here is that player agency in plot (although inevitably limited due to the nature of the medium) is a defining part of wrpgs, whereas a jrpg is more about immersing the player as a character in a linear narrative and the progression associated with it.

neither is better than the other - they are simply differing design choices and genres.

[Anonymous No.4895093]

FF7. Better combat, better writing, better characters, more impactful story moments, and much, much better CGI. Fallout is kind of a meme game that is clung to solely because it got a bethshit sequel.

[Anonymous No.4895098]

>>4891319
FF7 lets you choose which type of panties you want to wear and you can even go sing karaoke in the bar in drag. What the fuck else do you want?

[Anonymous No.4895512]

>>4895085
>is a defining part of wrpgs

I don't think it is. It's a defining part of games from certain developers, but it's not a general trait you can find in the whole sub-genre or in a majority of games.

[Anonymous No.4895542]

>>4889893
WRPG vs JRPG. The best of both genres that year.

[Anonymous No.4895637]

>>4889908
>a blueprint for cRPG design
that would actually be Dark Sun which is the first of that era of cRPGs

[Anonymous No.4896179]

>>4889893
the last time I played 7 was in summer 2007, the first time I played fallout was that fall
just a funny little coincidence

Fallout and south park came out around the same time, there's even a south park joke in it.

[Anonymous No.4897830]

>>4895637
My nigger. This game deserves more love

[Anonymous No.4897887]

>>4897830
>tfw Dark Sun didn't spawn a new Gold Box era

[Anonymous No.4898715]

>>4895542
Are you sure about that?

[Anonymous No.4898737]

>>4889893
I only see one RPG there.

[Anonymous No.4898740]

>>4898737
Which one is the visual novel?

[Anonymous No.4898807]

>>4890551
Nice read

[Anonymous No.4898861]

>>4889903
>soulbounders
what?

[Anonymous No.4898910]

>>4889984
This guy gets it. I prefer strategy personally

[Anonymous No.4898962]

>>4890025
What about European ones?

[Anonymous No.4899130]

FFVII was the end of an era, Fallout was the beginning of one.

[Anonymous No.4899487]

>>4899130
The end of what era?