itt: RPG red flags

[Anonymous No.4799474]

>random battles

[Anonymous No.4799481]

>>4799474
the only people who hate random battles are people who think they like rpgs but actually don't, man. fake gamer detected.

[Anonymous No.4799612]

>>4799474
>random battles with loading times and long animations
ftfy

[Anonymous No.4799613]

>>4799474
>NON random battles

[Anonymous No.4799686]

>sleep/confuse/poison doesn't work on bosses

[Anonymous No.4799692]

>Useless spells
>Standard attacks stronger than magic attacks
>Spells that allow you to steam roll through the game
>Everyone can use spells
>Long battle animations/movement

[Anonymous No.4799694]

>>4799686
>in a game where basic enemies are generally nonthreatening enough that you are better off just using attacks or attack magic on them and healing as needed instead of needlessly drawing out the battle with status ailments, effectively rendering said moves useless

[Anonymous No.4799791]

>>4799686
>>4799694
This is basically every jrpg though

[Anonymous No.4799826]

Forced grinding. But th real one, like in Dragon Quest 1

[Anonymous No.4799835]

The only games where I use a lot of status spells are DQ and MegaTen, so I conclude they're the most worthwhile RPGs.
It seems a lot of post-NES games in the genre dropped the whole survival aspect where you had to barely make it through s difficult dungeon, usually you can afford a million health/mana potions in these games, boring as fuck.

[Anonymous No.4799848]

>>4799835
They became more focused on plot, which meant making the experience easy for people not playing for the game but for said plot

[Anonymous No.4799864]

4799848
True, but that just makes me drop the game halfway through, since jRPG plots hardly impress anyone that isn't an adolescent or has read a decent amount - or even just played western cRPGs.
I mean, is Dragon Quest 5 a game that isn't focused on plot, considering the usual stereotypes? But that game had a bigger emotional impact on me than any big PS1 classics. Those games show restraint and a good handle on traditional narratives, which works a million times better than plots in most FF games.

[Anonymous No.4799887]

>>4799612
But FF9 was a great game, anon

[Anonymous No.4799890]

>>4799474
>job system

[Anonymous No.4799891]

>>4799864
>since jRPG plots hardly impress anyone that isn't an adolescent or has read a decent amount
Seeing how this board is, I guess it's filled with teens then

[Anonymous No.4799905]

>you can save whenever you want

[Anonymous No.4799910]

>>4799474
I don't really have an issue with random encounters. But I do think they should give the player the option to switch them off or the game automatically switches them off when your backtracking to places and trying to solve puzzles.

It's frustrating having to fight easy opponents when I'm backtracking and being put off solving a puzzle from a random encounter.

[Anonymous No.4799912]

>>4799887
Don't lie. There hasn't been a good FF game since SNES.

[Anonymous No.4799925]

>>4799912
I like Thirteen :-)

[Anonymous No.4799926]

>>4799912
Can't speak for the mainline series, but I really liked Crystal Chronicles. Even if partially for its cozy atmosphere.

In fact, a good deal of what I like in an RPG, aside from a fun battle system to make all those random encounters enjoyable, is a good atmosphere. I loved the atnosphere of games like FF4 (Even though the combat was braindead), Terranigma and Chrono Trigger. At the same time, my favorite Final Fantasy was the first one, so mechanics do still matter a lot to me.

[Anonymous No.4799929]

>>4799474
random battles, or "not random" like in Chrono Trigger/Earthbound, it really doesnt make much difference. Its basically the same system either way, where you still have to engage with a lot of battles while going through an area. The issue is not how the battle is entered, but the battle system itself: its boring.

[Anonymous No.4800027]

>>4799910
To be fair, some games do have a no encounters item that you can get later in the game.

[Anonymous No.4800031]

>Vaguely Tolkien inspired setting
This goes for both JRPGs and Western-style RPGs. If I never see another not-Europe filled with Elves, Humans, Dwarves, and Orcs, it would be too soon. All the coolest RPGs divorce themselves from this paradigm in one way or another.

[Anonymous No.4800107]

>>4799912
Yes there has It was called Bravely Default.

[Anonymous No.4800161]

>>4799474
>It's a JRPG.

[Anonymous No.4800186]

>15mins in
>don’t have full control of your character yet
>haven’t introduced the games core mechanics yet

At this point I shut it off and play something else

[Anonymous No.4800201]

>it's a WRPG

[Anonymous No.4800245]

>>4800031
>FF12
>not-Arabia filled with no Muslims
pretty good fantasy if you ask me

[Anonymous No.4800361]

>>4799791
Hmmm...

[Anonymous No.4800379]

>there's no status moves at all

[Anonymous No.4800414]

>>4800379
And that's a good thing.

[Anonymous No.4800502]

>attack buffs are pointless because they result in equal DPS to spending those turns attacking instead
>single target, short duration defense buff that's only replaced by a full party buff extremely late into the game

[Anonymous No.4800503]

>>4800414
t. chrono triggered

[Anonymous No.4800515]

>>4799912
Both XII and XV are great

[Anonymous No.4800519]

> Numbers exceed 1000 in the early game.
Huge numbers often serve to cheapen the battle system, and it makes it difficult to track just how hard the enemy hit you. The player will only register extremely large numbers as significant damage.

[Anonymous No.4800529]

>>4800502

This.
Fucking hate this.

[Anonymous No.4800556]

>>4799791
Two nukes weren't enough.

[Anonymous No.4800601]

>>4800515
XII yes
XV hell no

[Anonymous No.4800603]

>>4799791
Give some examples so everyone can see how little you know about the genre kek

[Anonymous No.4800608]

>>4800601
>>4800515
XII has about as much gameplay as watching a let's play and below NES tier plot and characters
fucking garbage game, especially coming from the usually great matsuno

[Anonymous No.4800708]

>>4800515
tactics and 12 remix are the only good ones, the rest are kiddie shit especially 4 and 5

[Anonymous No.4800729]

>Enemies use "X% chance of instant kill" attacks

Extra points if it is a rpg where the protagonist dying results in game over.

[Anonymous No.4800762]

>>4800729
persona games want to talk to you

[Anonymous No.4800772]

>Anime
When I say "Anime", I don't mean "Anime", as Anime can can be a really cool art style when in the hands of a properly inspired artist. What I mean by "Anime" is "Anime", you should know which "Anime" I'm talking about. "Anime" is so bad and it makes me embarrassed for liking "Anime".

[Anonymous No.4800779]

>>4800772
BUY HER GAME

[Anonymous No.4800781]

>enemies permanently drain levels

[Anonymous No.4800783]

>>4800781
Good, fuck levels

[Anonymous No.4800913]

>>4800729
>enemies have a 100% chance for insta kill attacks

[Anonymous No.4800930]

>Sewer/waterway dungeons

[Anonymous No.4800940]

>>4799474
more games should've used the radar from 7th saga

[Anonymous No.4800941]

>>4799474
High Encounter rate with weak enemies that are not worth your time to even kill.

>>4799925
That's because you're a faggot

[Anonymous No.4800948]

>>4800941
I am :-)

[Anonymous No.4800974]

>>4799474
>a timer begins counting down

[Anonymous No.4801001]

>>4800186
>15 mins in
how the hell did you survive 15?

[Anonymous No.4801039]

>>4799692
>Everyone can use spells
Don't know why this bugs me, but it does. In FF6 especially, it just makes Terra and Celes not feel special anymore.

[Anonymous No.4801049]

>>4801039
Just cause everybody can use spells, doesnt mean they should be used as a mage.

[Anonymous No.4801083]

>>4799481
Yep, I'm this guy. All JRPGs should allow you to skip through random battles and just let you enjoy the story. I was only able to finally get through Final Fantasy VII by playing the PS4 version that lets you basically cheat through the game. This is also why I enjoy the Persona series since they have difficulty selections.

[Anonymous No.4801095]

>>4801083
>All JRPGs should allow you to skip through random battles and just let you enjoy the story.
>All JRPGs should allow you to skip the game and just let you enjoy the story.
Try reading books or something, they don't have silly gameplay and have potentially much better stories.

[Anonymous No.4801101]

>>4801095
I still enjoy the interactive nature and visual medium of RPGs though. I've accepted that I'm absolutely a casual when it comes to this genre.

[Anonymous No.4801104]

>>4801101
>when it comes to this genre.
to the medium

[Anonymous No.4801107]

>>4801104
Eh... In the case of JRPGs in particular I'd argue that the story and visual novel elements are often a bigger draw than the battles. This is especially true in the case of the Persona series. As far as other genres, I very much enjoy challenging platformers.

[Anonymous No.4801110]

>revive a character
>they immediately get targeted and die
>repeat

It's not really the game's fault, but like 50% or so of the HP on revive seems fair without being overpowered to the point of Mario RPG where it's better to just carry 30 Pick Me Ups than any healing item.

[Anonymous No.4801171]

>spend more time watching battle animations than anything else

[Anonymous No.4801205]

>>4800515
XII was good enough to keep my attention until I beat it 100% but I haven't played XV.

[Anonymous No.4801305]

>>4801083
Just play a visual novel. Country to popular belief they are not all porn or romance, I'm sure there are some out there that will catch your interest.

[Anonymous No.4801339]

>>4801305
Tried a couple on Vita. They were alright but not as engaging as a Final Fantasy game for me.

[Anonymous No.4801375]

>>4801083
You can watch AAA game stories on youtube. Example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxMcuzOgVrU

[Anonymous No.4801441]

>>4801375
Yeah I did this with FFXII after trying to play it. Not very enjoyable gameplay for me but it was a fantastic movie.

[Anonymous No.4801505]

>>4800608
12 was the only one I really enjoyed because the combat was fun instead of an endless chore of waiting through random encounter animations like every game after 6

[Anonymous No.4801506]

>>4800608
You really hated it that much? I personally thought FFXII was a better Star Wars movie than any of the recent Star Wars movies.

[Anonymous No.4801514]

>>4801305
Persona 4 Golden was super fun on very easy difficulty. I genuinely don't know who would play the newer Persona games for the bog standard JRPG combat. The story and social link elements are without a doubt the main appeal.

[Anonymous No.4801536]

>finite amount of XP

[Anonymous No.4801560]

>>4801536
max level based on story, only raised when story moves along.

[Anonymous No.4801575]

>>4799474
The best RPG would have:
>Free exploration
>Non-Random Battles
>Optional Main Storyline
>No pallet-swapped enemies
>Cyberpunk World
>Floating Cities

[Anonymous No.4801579]

>>4800107
it had a shitty story worse than V minus the likable characters tho, except maybe Jap Ringabel

[Anonymous No.4801609]

>>4799474
There's nothing wrong with random battles. Long animations and slow battles are the real problem. FF7's KOTR was obnoxiously long but it one shot nearly everything so it was tolerable. FF8's GFs were worthless and FF9's slow battles are infuriating. You have to wait such a long time to even get the fight started

[Anonymous No.4801624]

>>4801083
Avoiding random battles in FF7 can be done early on.

[Anonymous No.4801627]

>>4801560
Fucking Werdna

[Anonymous No.4801883]

>>4799474
>turn-based combat that doesn't even have anything special
>MP=HP but also HP=HP

[Princess Penisleaf No.4801925]

>>4799474
>None of the NPC houses have bathrooms

[Anonymous No.4801926]

>None of the NPC houses have bathrooms

[Anonymous No.4801935]

>>4801609
There's also an issue when the random battles serve no real purpose. In a lot of RPGs, random encounters are never going to seriously threaten the party, and you have so many recovery options at your disposal that they can't even enforce any resource management. You might as well just have the player randomly gain some XP and money intermittently while walking around.

[Anonymous No.4802046]

I know a lot of guys on /vr/ love to shit on Earthbound, but I think it handled it's regular battles really well.
>enemies are on the overworld
>your position when you start a fight can grant either you or the enemy a surprise attack
>enemies you can one-shot get wiped on the overworld without having to waste time fighting them
>weak enemies actively try to avoid you
Those last 2 are extremely good changes to the formula, I don't know why so few JRPGs do this.

[Anonymous No.4802054]

>>4802046
The rolling meter was a nice mechanic too; the ability to avoid death from mortal damage by being quick with healing made for some pretty fun moments.

[Anonymous No.4802120]

>>4801514
My favorite part of P4 was collecting and fusing new personas and I went through multiple playthroughs so I could 100% the Persona Compendium. The game had the same appeal to me a Pokemon game.
I don't know why you would play it on very easy though, it's already a super easy game.

[Anonymous No.4802125]

>>4801575
So pretty much most Western rpgs.

Not counting the last two which are very specific

[Anonymous No.4802127]

>>4801575
>>Cyberpunk World
I was on board until this

[Anonymous No.4802129]

>>4800515
Absolutely true. XII revived the series after X and X-2, XIII killed it again and XV revived it again. It's been a wild ride

[Anonymous No.4803061]

>>4802125
>>4802127
maybe the last two were a bit much, but to me Xenoblade has this feel.
Might and Magic 6,7 and 8 almost feel like this except for the pallet swapped enemies.

[Anonymous No.4803126]

>>4799791
just finished dragon quest 6 and in order to not need to grind i had to make good use of kasnooze and shit

but then i used exp multiplier cheats when i got to the final boss cause i aint trying to grind that shit was hard

[Anonymous No.4803156]

>game becomes "non-linear"
>you spend hours trying to find out what to do next
>become much higher level than you should be
>no more difficulty

[Anonymous No.4803249]

>>4799835
What other RPG besides Chrono Trigger allows you to hold 99 of each item?

[Anonymous No.4803503]

>>4803249
Square-Enix games

[Anonymous No.4803513]

>>4802125
Steambot Chronicles actually fits most of that criteria, despite not being a WRPG. Unfortunately it's obscure and JRPG devs seem to have completely ignored it, not to mention Bumpy Trot 2 being canned.

Profound sadness...

[Anonymous No.4803534]

>>4801514
>bog standard
The only reason P3 and P4 feel so sloggy is because they're stuck with shitty randomized dungeons. If they bothered with actual dungeon design the games would be legitimately 3 or 4 points higher than I currently rate them. The actual combat is smooth, fun, and feels rewarding when you get off a bunch of criticals or effective attacks. It's just that it's a grind because of the shit dungeons and shit enemy variety.

It'd also help if the main story of the game wasn't spread so thin. P5 was better in that regard.

[Anonymous No.4803581]

>>4800502
Maybe I'm missing something, but this is how I've always felt about the battle items in Pokemon. It seems to me like you could just use an attack twice instead of using X Attack.

[Anonymous No.4803612]

>>4801083
Random battles are a part of the story anon, they represent the struggle the main protagonists have to overcome against the world they're put in so they can succeed in their quest. Since it is a role-play game, I can enact being multiple sides of my party, showing off my strength to the enemies who dared pick a fight with me, helping out my friends showing I care for them while also choosing the ones I appreciate more by sticking with them the most, and be ready to retreat if it turns out the situation is getting really dangerous, or try to make do with what I have if I'm sure I can take on it, in which case the situation gets really tense and adrenaline-filled.

I'm sad you can't experience these feels, anon.

[Anonymous No.4803630]

>>4799887
It really wasn't.

[Anonymous No.4804540]

>>4803612
Yeah sorry, just not a fan of the typical JRPG turn based battle systems. I do however love the more action-based style used in the Paper Mario and South Park games.

[Anonymous No.4804924]

[Anonymous No.4805047]

>Bravely Default
Is English really this difficult

[Anonymous No.4805048]

>>4805047
Yes

[Anonymous No.4805058]

>>4805047
you bet

[Anonymous No.4805234]

>Turn-based RPG
>The order everyone goes in is completely fucking random, there's no speed stat or move priority or anything.

>Boss goes last in the turn and uses a skill that rips off over 50% of your party's health.
>Proceeds to go first next turn and uses that skill again.

[Anonymous No.4805542]

Even with all this red flags, RPG stands for the greatest genre ever. How come?

[Anonymous No.4805557]

>>4805542
quaint charm

[Anonymous No.4805564]

>>4805542
Rpg = Recognizably Perfect Games

[Anonymous No.4805573]

>>4799474
Random Battles are literally even in the original versions of D&D just admit you don't like the genre.

They're there to promote preparedness and help measure the risk vs. reward on continuing to explore dungeons. In D&D they were of course more effective since they also happened based on the party's movement speed (every couple turns, a turn being measured by the amount of space you could move in 10 minutes) which is affected by things like encumbrance and injury.

[Anonymous No.4805578]

>>4805542
Because stories and movies are more popular/palatable than games. As such, narrative driven products will have an easier time catching on than purely gameplay ones.

As well, RPG gameplay is far less mentally taxing than the puzzle focused Adventure genre. Despite how this post is worded, this is not innately a bad thing, as it gives RPGs an innately relaxing quality: there are not only less roadblocks and hard progress stops, but because of how most RPGs work, it is impossible to lose a game unless you get bored and give up. This easy progress melds well with storytelling, and since many people play games to relax, it makes RPGs extra cozy as far as video games go. On top of all this, the nature of RPG progression lends itself well to power fantasies, since bigger numbers means more power. As such the tangible power gain compliments the story even more, and it makes even weak stories more engaging because of that. The RPG is a perfect storm for the passive types which stories appeal to.

This is only a guess on my part, though. It also does not take in to account big action games which also are reliant on cutscenes, since I mainly play story light arcade style games.

[Anonymous No.4805585]

>>4805542
They're okay if you don't have any actual skills and really like shitty anime stories.

[Anonymous No.4805615]

I'll agree that random battles make exploring more tedious, but as long as the encouter rate isn't something stupid like Skies of Arcadia on the Dreamcast, then it isn't going to ruin it.

Honestly I think one of Chrono Trigger's biggest strength in terms of combat was how you fought enemies on there on the map without transitioning to a different battle screen. It's a shame not many of the earlier FFs continued that trend.

[Anonymous No.4805878]

>>4800502
>attack buffs are pointless because they result in equal DPS to spending those turns attacking instead
Bikill in Dragon Quest III and IV was so fucking cool. Double damage all day and nobody but endgame bosses could dispel that shit. And goading bosses into wasting their turns canceling buffs is fun too

[Anonymous No.4805891]

>>4801049
But everyone can use spells with near equal effectiveness. In the case of FF6, one easy way of defeating Kefka is to equip everyone with Ultima and spam it until he's dead.

[Anonymous No.4805909]

>things being drawn out solely to waste your time
DQ7 iirc had an hour long intro and was just going from point a to point b with nothing inbetween. It was an hour that could've easily been summed up in a thirty second cutscene.

[Anonymous No.4805913]

>>4805891
If you've fought so many battles that 4+ characters have learned Ultima, then pretty much any strategy is going to defeat Kefka.

[Anonymous No.4806342]

>>4799474
> lolis in the cover art

[Anonymous No.4806343]

>>4799613
I don't have an issue with seeing where the enemies are coming from. I just wish the enemies you encounter at Level 1 didn't look like negro league baseball players from before civil rights

[Anonymous No.4806347]

>>4800027
You can also use Game Genie codes if you're emulating or have a Game Genie.

[Anonymous No.4806354]

Koryu Densetsu Villgust for SNES is a crappy game but it had an interesting system where random encounters in any given area grow rarer as you fight them, and you could eventually run out of random encounters. Limiting your ability to grind and also making backtracking less painful. I think something like that could be cool if implemented well.

[Anonymous No.4807991]

>>4806343
That's not how it is in the NES version, There you will always get attacked after a fixed time interval, even if you're standing still.

[Anonymous No.4807998]

>>4801624
Are you talking about enemy away? Because you can't reliably get that as a prize, it's random. I tried for fucking hours and never did get it.

[Anonymous No.4808002]

>>4806354
Cthulhu Saves the World does this, and it's a major mechanic in Undertale.

[Anonymous No.4808010]

>>4805891
Ohh man thats shit, why would they do that?

[Anonymous No.4808178]

>>4805542
>Shit taste
>Shit girl
Kys yourself.

[Anonymous No.4808203]

>>4807998
moogle charm once you find mog.

[Anonymous No.4808249]

Random battles kills getting all the discoveries in Skies Of Arcadia. Why the developers never put in an item or an option to turn them off when doing that is baffling.

[Anonymous No.4808348]

>>4802046
>your position when you start a fight can grant either you or the enemy a surprise attack
I love this mechanic in Earthbound. The only other game I can think of that uses it is Citizens of Earth which is heavily inspired by Earthbound are there any other games with this mechanic?
>>4808178
>Kys yourself.

[Anonymous No.4808360]

>>4808348
Romancing SaGa does that.

[Anonymous No.4808363]

>>4803581
No that's pretty much it. Anything worth using that benefits from stat ups will just have stat up moves anyway. X Accuracy is useful but also expensive as fuck.

X items are pretty much only good for speedruns.

[Anonymous No.4808364]

>>4808348
In Paper Mario and later Mario RPGs you can jump and hammer encounters on the overworld and they'll take damage from it at the start of the fight. There's some fucking fantastic RPGs in that franchise.

[Anonymous No.4808365]

>>4799686
FF10 annoyed the fuck out of me with that horseshit.

[Anonymous No.4808371]

>>4799474
Crafting.

[Anonymous No.4808374]

>>4808371
Remember, this is /vr/

[Anonymous No.4808383]

>>4808348
Grandia has no random encounters, and you can get ambushed or start a surpris attacks on enemies in that way.
Same as Lufia II (in dungeons, not on the overworld)

[Anonymous No.4808394]

>>4801095
I would much rather have harsher battles. if you remove random battles then the game is designed and balanced around the inability to grind

[Anonymous No.4808404]

>>4808374
Vagrant Story was ruined by its shitty crafting system.

[Anonymous No.4808465]

>>4808203
>Avoiding random battles in FF7 can be done early on
>by getting the moogle charm
>for mog
>In FF7

[Anonymous No.4808659]

>multiclassing

Yeah, just be a Mary Sue who can do it all. Fuck that garbage.

[Anonymous No.4808661]

>>4808365
Poison was effective on most bosses, especially Seymour.

[Anonymous No.4809003]

>>4805578
These are good points. I love RPGs, but they require engagement, not skill. Maybe it's more of any activity than a game.

[Anonymous No.4809097]

>>4809003
Depends. One could share Sid Meier's view on games:
>A game is a series of meaningful choices.
Though even then one could argue/disagree on whether most RPGs even allow you to make meaningful/impactful decisions.

[Anonymous No.4809129]

>>4809003
People who care too much about showing off skill in videogames sound like they are compensating for their own inadequacies in real| life. Just saying.

[Anonymous No.4809136]

>>4809129
I don't agree. I think being good at a video game is as real as any other skill, like cooking or banjo playing. I'm not good at any of those things, and am impressed by people who are, for certain values of impressed. But while I play a lot of RPGs I don't really see how one is supposed to be good at them, or that that's even what the game is asking of its players.

[Anonymous No.4809287]

>>4809097
That's actually the essential quality of Final Fantasy combat. The choices are meaningful in a sense, even if the risk of actually winding up at a game over screen is miniscule. There's lots of little successes and failures with minor costs and rewards.

[Anonymous No.4809295]

>>4805913
You can get 3 characters to learn Ultima before Kefka easily. Lots of MP to be had in the fanatics tower.

[Anonymous No.4809453]

>>4808465
Same version that your uncle at nintendo had for the N64 where you could resurrect general leo and get both aries and areith back.

[Anonymous No.4809570]

>>4799474
If it puts me to sleep. I don't know if it's the music or the slow text or what, but despite how interesting Xenogears is I can't play it for more than like 40 minutes without slowly starting to doze off. This game makes my eyelids heavy as soon as I boot it up.

[Anonymous No.4809885]

>>4805913
I took me 37 hours to complete the game. That's the around the average time for JRPGs.

[Anonymous No.4810913]

>>4799474
>main character uses a sword

[Anonymous No.4811160]

>>4810913
>main character has a solid design
>main character's weapon is horrifically overdesigned

[Anonymous No.4811171]

>It's an RPG

[Anonymous No.4811184]

>>4799474
>>4799481
>>4799612
>>4799910
>>4799926
>>4799929
>>4801083
>>4801095
>>4801505
>>4801935
>>4803534
>>4803612
>>4805573
>>4806354
>>4808249
>>4808383
>>4808394
The battles aren't really "random" at all. :^)

[Anonymous No.4811214]

>>4801926
THIS. I'm so annoyed by bad world building and inconsistency in most of the RPGs. Developers should learn from Ultima 7.

[Anonymous No.4811476]

>>4801926
>>4811214
That only is a problem if there is neither an outhouse to be seen nor any designated shitting street. Which is most often the case, I guess.

[Anonymous No.4811483]

>>4811476
Does Dalaam have a designated shitting street?

[Anonymous No.4811484]

>>4799612
I couldn't finish Skies of Arcadia on Dreamcast because of this shit
>2 minute loading
>airship mode
>fly forward 3 pixels
>random encounter
>2 minute loading
>long slow animation as each enemy loads in one at a time
>use skill
>long unskippable cutscene
>enemies defeated
>2 minutes loading
>airship
>fly forward 1 pixel
>random encounter

[Anonymous No.4811493]

>the non-magic using physical melee characters have "special moves" like causing explosions, teleports, shockwave slashes from across the room, etc

[Anonymous No.4811495]

>game has elemental magic system but there are no functional differences or side effects for using a given element beyond simple rock-paper-scissors vs enemy type

[Anonymous No.4811508]

>>4811495
Magic is effectively worthless in most RPGs it seems like. Except for like 2-3 enemies that have insane high physical defense making magic the only way to damage them, your best bet is usually just spamming regular attack or physical moves. Especially true with magic that causes status effects. Any non-boss fight the enemies won't live long enough for status effects to have any impact on the fight, and all bosses are always immune to statuses.

It's incredibly annoying how few RPGs get magic right.

[Anonymous No.4811532]

>>4800930
Those are comfy though, as long as you don't actually go underwater.

[Anonymous No.4811548]

>>4808659
I only like it in games that turn the second class into a real subclass and limit how strong it can be by limiting level or only letting some things transfer over.
Then you get to cover a weakness or two, but not to the point of steamrolling everything. Its rare that a game nails the perfect feeling though.

[Anonymous No.4811554]

>>4811508
If I made a game I would have poison roll a number at the end of the round and deal that much damage, but make the high end actually deal lethal damage. You have to tweak its %chance to proc just right. That way poison is strong enough to kill early enemies and it would feel like real poison, but strong enemies might be able to take 2-3 hits before they die.

The problem is the poison damage is always, always too small a percentage of the enemy's overall health that the move is wasted. Up the damage to make it deadly, but lower the proc chance or something.
A poison dagger that did low damage for its level range but dealt high poison damage would actually be good and feel like an actual poisoned dagger.

[Anonymous No.4811626]

>>4811548
Not /vr/ but I can only think of ffxi what are some retro games that do it well enough?

[Anonymous No.4811710]

>>4803126
>play Dragon Quest
>not grinding

what's even the point?

[Anonymous No.4814086]

>stat gain on levelup is random

[Anonymous No.4814120]

>>4809136
RPG's aren't about Timing, memorization and reflexes like action games or FPS games . There about assessing situations and planning your next move.

[Anonymous No.4814139]

>>4811626
FF5: You have a main class, then one one slot for a secondary command that may have an effect on your stats as well. If you want to sub a support ability, you have to use up the command slot.

FFTactics: Unlike FF5 you have explicit slots for support and reaction abilities in addition to your secondary command slot, but stats ONLY come from the primary class.

The main issue people might have with FF5 and FFT is that you can change your "job" at any time, but when you play these games that feels appropriate and works a lot more elegantly than trying to have dozens of extra characters to level up different class combinations.

[Anonymous No.4814140]

>>4814120
Exactly. Resource optimization and tactical decision-making. Even the games that don't call themselves "tactics" games are still about tactical decision-making.

[Anonymous No.4814204]

I don't know why random battles set so many people off. It seems to be something a lot of people just can't wrap their brains around logically.

Like the implication is, say you're in a forest, which you probably have been at some point, or at least a wooded area. You can't typically see any critters at any one moment, right? But then occasionally you might spot a squirrel 10 feet in front of you. You might see like 20 different squirrels. If you're really unlucky, you might see a bear, which would be like the apex predator of the area. These are random encounters, they're not there until they are.

You can apply this to any situation. Maybe you're walking around a military complex in the game. You turn a corner, and suddenly there's a guard. That was random, and happens in a split second.

I would argue it's the games where you can see enemies everywhere that doesn't make any sense. Since when is it fair that you might be able to magically know that there's an enemy in the opposite corner of a room behind a partition that your character can't see?

[Anonymous No.4814207]

>>4814204
I'd say the complaints aren't usually about the logical implications, they just don't find it an appealing game mechanic. I disagree, but hey.

[Anonymous No.4814227]

>>4814204
If you're arguing the logical implications: how is it possible you can fight an unlimited amount of human enemies, military complex or not?
But that really isn't the problem like >>4814207 said.

[Anonymous No.4814381]

>>4799791
Shin Megami Tensei

[Anonymous No.4814927]

>main character is a nigger

[Anonymous No.4815776]

>>4800930
>you just run along the same straight pathway occasionally taking a turn or crossing over a tiny bridge every so often for an hour interrupted by random battles now and then
Terrible.

[Anonymous No.4817347]

>Characters can only have specific skills at specific levels
>Only way to upgrade skills is to change characters

[Anonymous No.4817356]

>Only two members in party, the main hero and support character that can't be controlled in any manner or equipped with anything
>Encounter a party of enemies that all give sleep status alignments
>Hero gets hit repeatedly with sleep spell, goes to sleep, and gets pummeled to death by the enemies.

[Anonymous No.4819407]

>hp isn't refilled on level up

[Anonymous No.4819412]

>>4819407
Hate it. And then you only get the +5 or whatever it is from your max HP increasing, just to taunt you.

[Anonymous No.4819505]

>"No dude! it gets good after 47 hours in I swear!"

[Anonymous No.4819516]

>>4800762
Yes, hello?

[Anonymous No.4819521]

>>4805047

[Anonymous No.4819528]

>>4810913
>can change them to a different class
>still uses a sword in story sequences

[Anonymous No.4819532]

>>4805047
Yes but that's not the red flag for Bravely Default.

[Anonymous No.4819534]

>very slow battles
>magic misses 50% of the time for every magic caster (even when they're at very high levels)
>useless tactical movement

[Anonymous No.4819543]

>>4799474
Reminder

[Anonymous No.4819549]

>>4819407
>level up while at full HP
>life is no longer full because your max HP increased on level up

[Anonymous No.4819558]

>>4819549
>Healing skill increases max hp temporarily
>It does't actually heal for the extra hp though

[Anonymous No.4819571]

>>4819543
Half of these are constraints imposed by the medium, not creative choices. Stuff like being able to fight a character who later joins your party is a good game design choice, not a bad or cliche one. It's a way for the game to naturally show you the capabilities of a character. It's the central mechanic of Pokemon, for example.
And yeah, it's no surprise that a 16-bit game is going to have a scripted storyline with "little do do outside of the main quest" and without endless possible choices like "kill the king with your magic instead of being imprisoned by his soldiers." By the way, that prison sequence will show up in a lot of games, because the color palettes give the appearance of more hue variation in darker scenes. Developers will naturally want to show off with cave scenes, dungeon scenes, etc.
Several more are just obvious game design choices but there's no need to go on.

[Anonymous No.4819583]

>>4800772
You are fucking up the use-mention distinction. At the very least, the final "Anime" should be "Anime." (Ironically, in this sentence, the typographical convention fails to convey the distinction.)
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use%E2%80%93mention_distinction
Or maybe you could write it
>"Anime" is so bad and it makes me embarrassed for "liking Anime."
and avoid the confusion.

[Anonymous No.4819606]

>>4817347
God, I used to think HQ4x looked good. Kms.

[Anonymous No.4819642]

>>4819571
>being able to fight a character who later joins your party is a good game design choice, not a bad or cliche one. It's a way for the game to naturally show you the capabilities of a character. It's the central mechanic of Pokemon, for example.
It's quite obvious that it's not in reference to games where you collect monsters, but to the tired old RPG storyline cliche of a character testing your skill in battle and then joining your team. By conflating that with something like pokemon your intentionally missing the spirit of what's being criticized.

>it's no surprise that a 16-bit game is going to have a scripted storyline with "little do do outside of the main quest
It's just lazy. There are plenty of 16 bit RPGs that offer a good amount of rewarding exploration and intriguing things to do / find, possibly even hidden characters, outside of the main quest. Lufia II has a bonus dungeon so immersive it's like a separate game within itself, Star Ocean has a million wacky random things to find and do, Star Ocean 2 is even more over the top, you can choose to stay on the story and beat the game or invest even more into it and get even more out of it. The criticism of lazy totally controlled start to finish RPGs that are nothing but "press A" simulators.

>endless possible choices like "kill the king with your magic instead of being imprisoned by his soldiers."
Nobody asked for "endless choices," people enjoy some degree of decision making beyond reading an interactive novel on screen, countless games do this well.

>By the way, that prison sequence will show up in a lot of games, because the color palettes give the appearance of more hue variation in darker scene
There is no excuse for having the same exact storyline mechanic used in maybe half of all JRPGs. And it usually has the same conclusion, either there's a guy sleeping in the cell with you who knows how to open the door, or there's a secret brick you touch that opens the door (or passage).

[Anonymous No.4819689]

>complex dungeon
>no automapping

[Anonymous No.4819705]

>dungeon exploring in third person
>real time and not first person
>real time with pause

[Anonymous No.4819806]

>>4819642
>either there's a guy sleeping in the cell with you who knows how to open the door, or there's a secret brick you touch that opens the door (or passage)
Or the enemy Lieutenant is sympathetic to your cause and throws you the key or opens your cell.
But really, the main character getting captured should end with their head rolling more often than it does. Or the player should have to break in with whoever was not captured, at least.
Subtract more points if you have to steal your equipment from a sleeping guard somewhere.
>>4819543
>bad guy passes on multiple chances to kill you when you are still weak
That's also quite bad, especially when the bad guy is shown to not be adverse to killing.
And I guess depending on how it plays out, this could imply that leveling up is much more than just a game mechanic. Not a fan of that. Don't start as a guy having trouble killing boars who turns into a godslayer later while the bad guy's power stays constant in time.

[Anonymous No.4819880]

>>4800107
>bravely default
>playing the same five bosses fucking over and over again is good

[Anonymous No.4820105]

>>4807991
My bad, I didn't expand the thumbnail and thought it was Ultima: Exodus

[Anonymous No.4820114]

>>4819549
Oh, I hate that and the MP no longer being full because you leveled up, especially when certain skills are based on what % of HP/MP you have.

[Anonymous No.4820129]

>One hour before you can play the game
>Two hours before you can get to the main story and not the shitty start town plot
>Three hours until you can save

[Anonymous No.4820131]

>>4820129
And then you have this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0_--mwn5RY

[Anonymous No.4820152]

>>4801083
>I don't want video games to be video games
Then go watch let's plays if you only care about the story.

[Anonymous No.4820178]

>>4814227
Sometimes it's OK to design around the probable/likely player behavior and write off the egde case. There's also obviously just the rule of fun . Would it really be fun for every sentient RPG enemy to run for reinforcements, where any successful escape effectively meant game-over? It can work, but can get tedious and restrictive very quickly especially if you're using a turn-based JRPG battle system.

[Anonymous No.4820182]

>>4820131
Then you repeat those 20 minutes all over again because you lost a medal

[Anonymous No.4820242]

>>4800940
Agreed. It's a much better compromise for non-random encounters than the flashing meter thing from EO/SMT Nocturne which doesn't go far enough, and the way every other garbage game does it where enemies are visible on screen and it's practically up to you whether you engage them or not. I think the key to a good JRPG encounter system is making them unavoidable in some measure; you can manoeuver around them in 7th Saga and Mystic Ark but it's really hard not to get cornered eventually

[Anonymous No.4820250]

>>4819642
>It's quite obvious that it's not in reference to games where you collect monsters, but to the tired old RPG storyline cliche of a character testing your skill in battle and then joining your team. By conflating that with something like pokemon your intentionally missing the spirit of what's being criticized.
No! It's the same mechanic. Fighting somebody before they join your party is a way for the game to use that character's moveset data twice. First as a CPU controlled opponent, then as a player-controlled party member. In Pokemon, the monsters fight (and are your party members) rather than other trainers, but don't let the fact that the other trainers are the ones who "talk" to you obscure what is really going on. It's the same game design strategy of squeezing more gameplay out of your fixed amount of data.

You're just trying to argue with me for the sake of argument. We're not going to agree, but presumably you can see that there are reasons why many games have similar mechanics and mechanic-driven story elements.

[Anonymous No.4820256]

>>4805878
The DQ games have really good magic back-and-forth in general, especially once spells like Bounce are introduced. I love when games know how to have fun with their systems

[Anonymous No.4820258]

>>4808348
I feel like that's how every game with visible encounters does it

[Anonymous No.4820259]

>>4809003
Game literacy can be seen as a skill. It separates people who think these games are all about attacking and healing from people who know how to exploit the rules to their advantage

[Anonymous No.4820262]

Calling pokemon a JRPG

[Anonymous No.4820346]

>>4820262
It is though.

[Anonymous No.4820367]

>rubberbanding AI

[Anonymous No.4820389]

>>4820367
In RPGs? Like, adjusting enemy stats depending on how well you do? Scaling enemy levels to yours?
What are examples (what's actually done, and games which do it)?

[Anonymous No.4820415]

>High encounter rate
>A lot of backtracking
Those two together is enough for me to drop a game at once.

[Anonymous No.4820495]

>>4820389
SaGa games have levelled content to make up for their open nature

[Anonymous No.4820513]

>>4819543
is there an rpg where you're not the chosen one?

[Anonymous No.4820528]

>>4820513
Atelier. You're a big fucking deal being the local alchemist and all but you're not the chosen one or anything. You just have a rare and powerful skill and it's up to you to develop it to its full potential.

I recommend Mana Khemia and Atelier Sophie to people new to the Atelier franchise

[Anonymous No.4820539]

>>4820513
In most of the Tales Of- games you're not the chosen one.

Super Mario RPG

I don't think you're necessarily the chosen one in Terranigma. You just fucked shit up and there's literally no one else around to fix it.

Pokemon, Dragon Quest Monsters

I think there's a ton of games where you're not the chosen one. A lot of popular ones just happen to use that trope.

[Anonymous No.4820578]

>>4820513
Dragon Quest five
A couple SaGa protags also qualify, like Lute

[Anonymous No.4820851]

>>4800783
made me fuckin cackle like that pic of crazy tom cruise. thanks anon

>>4800974
>your orb turns from yellow to orange to red to indicate higher threat of battle occuring

>>4801083
>>4801095
I'm fine and can enjoy random turn based battles but give me a fucking turbo button or options to speed up everything a LOT more.
ff's 'active battle' system is such horseshit. its great on those bosses where shit actually happens and you need it, but for literally everything else its aids.

[Anonymous No.4820853]

>>4801110
FF V's cover mechanic on knight. Unless ofc its your knight what's been layed low
then u just fucked mate

[Anonymous No.4820861]

>>4811483
no but it has the toot guru outside lol

[Anonymous No.4820876]

>>4820389
Plenty of games where level scaling is a thing, even FF did it with FFVIII.
SaGa games are one of the rare examples of games where the enemies downright change completely depending on how strong you get or simply how much you waste time grinding foolishly, this even includes boss battles in many of the games.
>>4820513
Many of them, it's easier to actually name the ones in which you are the chosen ones than the ones you're not.

[Anonymous No.4820887]

>>4814086
>Ness reached level 43!
>Maximum HP was increased by 1!
>Oh baby! Maximum PP was increased by 4!

[Anonymous No.4820894]

>>4814086
>you can lose stats by leveling up
Fucking Wizardry

[Anonymous No.4820908]

>No timed hits
>no special input commands to increase the efficacy of magic

[Anonymous No.4821726]

>>4799686
>uses Tent on the boss
>he becomes an autistic faggot

[Anonymous No.4821756]

>>4820908
So everything other than FF8 and SMRPG?

[Anonymous No.4821761]

So this is what I like about Digimon World
>no random encounters
>enemies move in patterns, so you can dodge them easily
>there's a gym to level up
>you can literally beat the game only fighting bosses

[Anonymous No.4821792]

>>4800930
Fuck that "dungeon" in Digital Devil Saga

[Anonymous No.4821851]

>>4821756
And Legend of Dragoon, I think. I know they have timed hits, anyways. That was one of the things I didn't like about it--if I wanted to do timing, I wouldn't be playing a goddamn turn-based RPG.

[Anonymous No.4821970]

>>4821851
It was half the reason I couldn't get into that game. Who wants to spend an extra 30 seconds on a single attack? People complain about certain FF titles having slow battles, but I never see anything but praise for LOD's.

[Anonymous No.4821985]

>>4821851
I like the timed hits because you have to be in a more focused state of mind to play the game, if you're too distracted you'll be prone to miss a lot. It isn't good for people who just wanna play without minding about this kind of thing, but I like it

[Anonymous No.4822540]

>>4819407
The absolute worst. It makes sense for games that want to give this "barely made it" feel so the level up doesn't make progressing easier but anything else has no excuse.

[Anonymous No.4822559]

>>4820513
FFVIII manages to be this despite the game playing around with fate in its plot.

[Anonymous No.4823003]

>>4822540
I barely notice this one way or the other. Personally, I usually prefer gaining HP by whatever amount your max was raised. So if you were 95/105, you'd level up to 105/115. The exception is for games where level-up restoration smooths out a lot of pointless tedium from the early game.

[Anonymous No.4823023]

>>4820887
You might not know this, but earthbound actually always keep your stats within a certain range. So even if you get bad level ups, the game will then give you great stats gain so that your stats don't fall off. You can see those ranges for yourself here. http://files.fobby.net/0000/5a27/earthbound_stats.txt

[Anonymous No.4823061]

>Mage, Archer, Warrior class options
>One class is so objectively superior that there isn't even a real choice

Bonus points for one of them being actually unplayable

[Anonymous No.4823201]

>>4800031
Would love to see more cyberpunk RPGs with multiple worlds.

[Anonymous No.4823217]

>>4823061
>hunter/archer is just a shittier version of mage

[Anonymous No.4824231]

>>4800031
This doesn't bother me much. For me the main appeal of a fantasy setting is the lack of real-world elements. A fantasy setting enables:

> credible combat scenarios that don't involve guns, artillery, and other modern equipment.
There's just something appealing about combat oriented around medieval melee weapons and armor, at least for me.

> Lack of modern global organization and efficiency.
Many if not most of the threats in a classic medieval fantasy would be trivial for any post-industrial civilization to methodically eliminate with social coordination and technology.

> Meaningful geographic elements with legitimate frontier regions.
Fantasy worlds usually have credible wild regions with lawless, unexplored territory full of danger and potential rewards.

Races, clothing styles, architecture, and all that stuff is largely cosmetic to me. I prefer variety, but am not going to object to the generic Tolkein-style world if the world itself nails the adventure elements.

[Anonymous No.4824382]

>>4801083
providing more options to players makes sense - SOMA had implemented "walking simulator" mode and it boosted the sales among the wuss crowd who were interested in premise but were scared of hiding and running from monsters.

[Anonymous No.4824601]

>>4799686
>>4799694
Pretty much, yeah.

Regular battles, you don't need things like sleep/confuse/poison because the enemies die too quickly

But the enemies that don't die quickly, are immune to those things

so why the fuck do they exist

[Anonymous No.4824815]

>>4824601
I get that this is not a criticism of every game, but it can be done well even if players don't notice.

In FF4, sleep is a good spell early on. You often fight 3-5 enemies at a time and don't have any spells that can wipe out the entire field. So sleep comes in handy to the reduce enemy damage output and possibly negative statuses.

In many other cases, including bosses, certain enemies will be weak to specific debuffs. Mute (White Magic) and Pig (Black Magic) are very useful for stopping enemy casters, especially those with counter-attacks. Ogres have a high damage output and tons of HP, but hit them with "size change" (which rarely misses on them) and they're out effectively of the fight. Many normal enemies are susceptible to charm, which a White Magic spell so it's often not competing with raw damage output. Several bosses are weak to the "slow" debuff as well as the HP drain from the virus spell.

True that poison is not that useful, but that spells is like 3 MP so you're not expecting much anyway.

[Anonymous No.4827303]

>>4820528
>You just have a rare and powerful skill

Rare special skill cliche.

[Anonymous No.4827305]

>>4821851
At least it makes them feel more like a game and not a boring menu after menu mash A to win slogfest.

[Anonymous No.4827342]

>>4803581
In Pokemon though you can play through multiple fights with the same X Attack buffed Pokemon. Against a single enemy I agree, it takes a turn to change a 3 attack fight into a 2 attack one, but you can compound that advantage over 2 enemies to save a turn and with it, HP and PP.

[Anonymous No.4827353]

>>4801575
>Optional Main Storyline

this makes shit.

a main story that's written to be loose enough to incorporate side questing is the best. otherwise, the plot loses focus and you lose immersion.

compare the plots of morrowind to skyrim and you'll see it -- both have plots that are ostensibly "optional" in a functional sense, but one has a plot that's written to work with side-questing, the other has a plot that's written with urgency to the main narrative such that even if the main quest is optional, the side quests cannot be done without immersion breaking.

[Anonymous No.4827360]

>>4799791
I agree with you. Ignore them haters

[Anonymous No.4827376]

>>4801506
It rehashed the original trilogy better than The Force Awakens did

[Anonymous No.4827410]

>>4800502
>the few bosses against whom such a party-wide buff move might be useful have buff canceling abilities

This happened in Skies of Arcadia, where spells are already pointless to cast in battles. You could argue that since you're forcing the boss to use a low-damage buff-clearing move you're preventing them from taking a turn dealing more damage but you're also giving up SP (which is shared between the party) which could have been used to just inflict a ton of damage via a super move.

Etrian Odyssey does buffs really well. Stacking buffs and debuffs is the key to doing good damage, but the skills are not so prohibitively expensive that you'd neglect using them. Some bosses do have buff-clearing skills but you can prepare for those by clearing your own buffs first.

[Anonymous No.4827635]

>>4822559
With the time travel, you could make an argument that FFVIII fits the "chosen one" mould in a retroactive sort of way

[Anonymous No.4827748]

>>4808661
Using Bio on Seymour was the most satisfying shit

[Anonymous No.4827782]

>>4827353
Objectively you're correct, but practically speaking the urgency of Skyrim's main quest means fuck all to the gameplay. The game is otherwise so thoroughly designed to be a sandbox that I barely notice.

[Anonymous No.4827790]

>>4805047
What's grammatically incorrect about it?
Admittedly, I have no clue what it means, but that's semantics, not grammar.

[Anonymous No.4827795]

>>4800502
>>4800529
This depends on whether there's more to the game than DPS. If an enemy has counter-attacks, for example, the same DPS with fewer attacks means you take fewer counter attacks.

[Anonymous No.4827807]

>>4801506
Only just started playing FFXII for the first time, but so far the story is not very engaging. The opening sequences, while great spectacle, are kind of a mess. Too many characters briefly introduced and too much backstory barfed up all at once, only to be sidelined entirely to focus on Vaan hunting rats in the sewer and admiring Penelo's butt.

[Anonymous No.4827980]

>>4827807
FFXII is weird in the sense that while Vaan is the main character of the game he is not the main character of the story. While he plays his part in some instances, he is more of a passenger to the plot. It's very much a more political story which I personally enjoy and it is also arguably the most lore-heavy entry in the series which is nice too.

[Anonymous No.4828179]

>>4799686
>final boss has huge move that's supposed to cause multiple status effects
>lol ribbon

[Anonymous No.4828195]

>it doesn't have Wizardry in the title

[Anonymous No.4829285]

>>4800186
>replace 15 minutes with THREE FUCKING HOURS

[Anonymous No.4829553]

>>4828179
Does the game provide ribbons for every character?
Does the ribbon require any tradeoff to use (such as a relic slot that could be used for damage boosting instead)

It's beginning to look like ITT: People who don't know how to play RPGs and just grind until they win.

[Anonymous No.4829736]

>>4829553
No ff7 is just casual as fuck, I got 3 ribbons without going out of my way really on my first blind playthrough.

[Anonymous No.4830256]

>>4829553
>implying most RPGs have any strategical depth

[Anonymous No.4831758]

>>4830256
> strategical
Exactly. How pathetic is it to fail at understanding games that are so simple?

[Anonymous No.4831768]

>>4829553
>ITT: People who don't know how to play RPGs and just grind until they win.
Those are the people that made these popular and profitable. Also called storyfags. Now imagine if you couldn't grind to win, RIP that audience.