/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.4793647]

Is this the biggest leap forward video games has ever seen? I can't think of any game as expansive and real for the time it was released.

[Anonymous No.4793661]

I don't know where you are exactly going to with this. I think standardizing the fact that video games aren't endless games and have a beginning and an end goal to complete the game is a mile stone.

[Anonymous No.4793667]

>>4793647
Super Mario 64 felt the biggest to me.

[Anonymous No.4793668]

Wasn't it based on Hydlyde or something, probably that wasn't even the first top down exploration game, or is this a meme?

[Anonymous No.4793669]

>>4793647
Leap sideways or diagonally if anything. Different genres have their own appeal. And no, open world games are not inherently better, despite what some may say these days.
If anything, for my personal tastes, Zelda was a big step in the wrong direction for games.

[Anonymous No.4793680]

>>4793647
Check out Japanese computer games at the time

[Anonymous No.4793681]

>>4793647
I don't know man, I remember super pitfall and goonies for famicom being pretty fucking huge and they came out around the same time.

Granted, the map is pretty nicely made but i feel like they could have done more with death mountain. a whole 25% of the map practically fucking useless.

[Anonymous No.4793684]

>>4793647
nah, SMB was

It's funny though, I just brought up Zelda to my GF the other day, and was telling her about getting it on the first day as a kid...not knowing what to expect, and the guy is like "Take this", and suddenly it's a story, not just running around bonking things for points, but like a tale being told...felt special and definitely new

[Anonymous No.4793709]

>>4793669
>If anything, for my personal tastes, Zelda was a big step in the wrong direction for games.
It’s assumed that you should have probably been alive for the period the game came out before you spout off opinions like this. Being old enough to post on this site in the first place is equally important.

[Anonymous No.4793971]

>>4793667
t. 9 year old when mario64 came out.

[Anonymous No.4794523]

>>4793709
No, I just prefer arcade style games and never found these adventure games as a direct improvement of that, just different games. And seeing how games nowadays take a lot from Zelda instead of arcades, in hindsight I guess you can understand me better.

[Anonymous No.4794536]

>>4793684
I was 12, and that doesn't invalidate my opinion in this thread.

[Anonymous No.4794579]

>>4793647
In 1985, Ultima IV was released, which featured a great open world map to explore, full of towns, dungeons, dialogues, ships to explore the world, a quest of epic scale.

It is like having a fantastic virtual world at your disposition. I like zelda, but I don't think at the time you would feel more impressed by it than by Ultima to be honest. Consoles are very limited even to this day.

[Anonymous No.4794691]

>>4793667
I'd agree with this. There was absolutely nothing else like SM64 at the time including on PC.

[Anonymous No.4794749]

>>4794523
Yeah well if we are talking about the field as a whole, you can't just arbitrarily limit to your favorite genres. Personally I think Legend of Zelda is a true classic with very few objective flaws that anyone can enjoy and appreciate. But I can't deny that there's a lot more variety with modern games. Even retro-inspired games like Shovel Knight, Binding of Isaac, and Mega Man 9 add bits of modern gameplay elements for the sake of novelty and originality. So now, a great game like Legend of Zelda would not get as much attention, because people have so many other options. Maybe they're playing Witcher 3, or Battlefront, or Dark Souls, or Breath of the Wild, or even fucking Candy Crush. It doesn't mean videogames have regressed nor does it mean the classic game has aged poorly or is dated.

[Anonymous No.4794814]

>>4793667
A big leap forward for platformers that kickstarted a subsequent short-lived craze, but that's about it. Other games that did the same thing are Virtua Cop, Virtua Fighter, Sonic, Final Fantasy 7 and Doom.

[Anonymous No.4794852]

>>4794814
Objectively incorrect. SM64 paved the way for large, free roaming 3D worlds on both console and PC. There was absolutely nothing else quite like it in 1996.

[Anonymous No.4794869]

>>4794852
Resident Evil came out three months sooner.

[Anonymous No.4794872]

>>4794869
Yes and totally wowed us with its huge free roaming worlds and responsive 3D controsl. I love RE but come on buddy. That was a huge stretch and you know it.

[Anonymous No.4794925]

>>4794749
>you can't just arbitrarily limit to your favorite genres.
That's what I'm saying. Arcade games and Zelda have so little in common design-wise I don't like to compare them as the same or in a scale of "objectively better"

[Anonymous No.4794973]

>>4794872
>responsive 3D controsl
Bug! for the Saturn did this. That is a bad game but thats besides the point.
3D platformers are a step backwards not forwards in my eyes since they are utterly devoid of challenge and there is no real way to add any without making the controls unwieldy.

[Anonymous No.4794974]

>>4794973
>since they are utterly devoid of challenge
Well, that means they're a step "forward" since the lack of a challenge is the norm of "games" now, in a sense.

[Anonymous No.4794987]

>>4793647
Nintendo doesn't innovate. They refine.

[Anonymous No.4794993]

>>4794987
Who innovate?

[Anonymous No.4794995]

>>4794987
Refine what

[Anonymous No.4795024]

>>4794973
Bug! was released before the Saturn even had a controller with an analog stick. It’s not even close to what Super Mario 64 achieved. Again, you know this.

[Anonymous No.4795031]

>>4794973
We’re not talking about platformers specifically. We’re talking about the leap forward in video games as a whole that Super Mario 64 kicked off.

[Anonymous No.4795053]

>>4795031
>leap forward in video games as a whole
Super Mario 64 wasn't a leap forward for arcade shooters; from that year, the most innovative and influential one would be Battle Garegga.
This is just one example. Games are not just one thing. 3D platformers aren't a leap forward from arcade shooters. They presented a step forward in terms of a new possibility thanks to advances in technology, but they're not directly better games.

[Anonymous No.4795059]

>>4795024
I don't see analogue controls as a big thing. I never really liked 3D platformers though. Mario 64 was a launch title for what was at the time the most powerful console. I don't think it was that important as a game and if you want to talk about the sprawling immersive 3D worlds Shenmue came out only three years later.
I thought Mario 64 was the best looking 3D game in motion at the time it came out but as a launch title for a new console I expected it to be surpassed quickly.

[Anonymous No.4795062]

>>4793668
Its a nintendrone thread, thinking zelda was the first top down action adventure..... the fucking idiots cant see past their cult like brainwashing.

[Anonymous No.4795078]

>>4794579
They will not acknowledge this. They must feel right "emotionally" nintendrones = sjw!!! Its a futile attempt.

We could explain the numerous games that came out and had more complexity. Charm, story and gameplay, but nintoddlers will not be able to grasp these simple facts.

[Anonymous No.4795098]

Spacewar was the biggest jump ahead. It took nearly two decades for other games to catch on.
Every game before was just trying to implement some traditional game like tic-tac-toe or chess while SW made something that could only be done on computers.

[Anonymous No.4795112]

>>4795031
I think daggerfall has better platforming than sm64. Daggerfall also has a huge amount of lore, "radiant" quests inb4 " the quests in daggerfall are cookie cutter" shut up, i still find new quest objectives and ive played this game for years. The map is huge, dungeons are crazy, cities are like cities, you can jump all around everywhere, levitate, super jump, slow fall, etc... dagerfall isnt just s better platformer than sm64, but its a better game overall.

[Anonymous No.4795120]

>>4795059
I’d still argue that SM64 was a huge jump from what we’d seen in 3D games on the PS1/Saturn though. There’s no denying that playing it for the first time in 1996 was pretty amazing and it was a hugely influential game for the entire industry; especially when fully 3D games were still in their infancy.

[Anonymous No.4795121]

The whole 5th gen felt like a huge step backwards, honestly, with terrible graphics, controls, and game designs. Thank god I had a PC at the time.

[Anonymous No.4795125]

>>4795112
That is certainly an interesting opinion I’ll give you that.

[Anonymous No.4795143]

>>4795121
Those years (1994-1999) were pretty cool on the arcade side too.
Fighting games on better hardware and expanding from the SFII formula. Also, 3D fighting games, while not invented took form then.
The last bunch of high quality beat 'em ups, like from Capcom.
Though horis were phasing out hard, vertical shooters post-Toaplan had a period of creativity and taking the formula to new limits that would never be matched again.
Advances in peripherical games: light gun games, DDR...
Then you have some long lasting franchises that started then, such as Metal Slug.
They may have been the years where they truly started to disappear in the west, but the games themselves, man. People into sprite art should definitely check out arcade games from around then.

[Anonymous No.4795145]

>>4795120
It sucked compared to frontier elite! Just cause sm64 was your first 3d game, doesnt mean it was everybodies. In this case you are a nintendrone fighting in the clone wars. You are a miyamobot with no original thoughts! I think arena was a better game than sm64, It holds my attention more and has way more replay value, but a simple human tumor as you wouldnt have the brain power to delve into any wrpgs.

[Anonymous No.4795152]

>>4795143
Yeah, back then you had to actually find these games in person, now you can download them all.

And I didn't hate 3d at the time. I had 3d games on my PC. But I didn't see the appeal of a system like the N64 for anything but multiplayer, because every single game was 3d on the thing. And to use an example, compare DK64 with DKC 2, which I was still playing until the release of the thing. DKC 2 has way better graphics. 64 games that were sequels to 3d games on the SNES looked better, of course (Star Fox, F-Zero).

I couldn't stand 3d platformers, and most 5th gen 2d platformers started to get really gimmicky, even if some of them looked really nice.

[Anonymous No.4795157]

>>4795152
>most 5th gen 2d platformers started to get really gimmicky
as in, they strayed further and further away from the arcade influence.
However, I find Mega Man X4 to be quite good for what it is even today.

[Anonymous No.4795159]

It's just a more polished ripoff of Dragon Slayer and Hyldide so obviously not. Also Ultima was already up to 4 at that point and dramatically larger and more involved.

[Anonymous No.4795161]

>>4795145
Once again though, there was nothing else on the market quite like Super Mario 64, including on PC. Yes the PC had some fully polygonal games but none were as smooth or as graphically polished. You’re being just as much of a drone by always trying to downplay Nintendo’s influence on the industry.

[Anonymous No.4795169]

>>4795161
SM64 was honestly nothing special outside of its polish.

[Anonymous No.4795173]

>>4795159
Dragon Slayer and Hydlide wouldn't exist without Druaga.

[Anonymous No.4795174]

>>4795161
Adding to this, show me a single other fully 3D game from 1996 with a character that moves as fluidly as Mario and I’ll concede my point.

[Anonymous No.4795179]

>>4795161
What he's trying to say is that for some people, myself included, seeing a game rendered like that wasn't a revelation. Some of the first games I played were fully polygonal, with full 3d movement. No, they weren't nearly as smooth or fast, and didn't look as good. But there was nothing mindblowing about Mario 64.

The fact that many people don't like 3d platformers also adds something.

For the record, I was always impressed by how good Zelda 64 looks and how well it translated its series into 3d, though.

[Anonymous No.4795185]

>>4795179
That’s exactly the point I’m trying to make. Developers had been experimenting with fully 3D worlds for a while but then Nintendo came along and somehow made it look easy. It’s fine if you’re not a fan of the genre but Super Mario 64 is undeniably a huge landmark for 3D game design.

[Anonymous No.4795202]

>>4795179
Some of the little details in SM64 still impress me. Like just outside of the castle alone, there’s the little birds that fly out of the trees when you climb them or the little polygonal fish that swim away if you jump into the pool. Things like that really made the world feel vibrant and alive in a time when 3D environments often felt sterile and soulless.

[Anonymous No.4795203]

>>4795161
Frontier elites gameplay is still very fluid. But playing sm64 with a n64 controller is still shitty. Ever wonder the why mouse and keyboard never got replaced. Daggerfall is smooth i can jump from rooftop to rooftop in every city and its fun, then i use levitate and get on my horse. BOOM, now im flying across the land on my trsusty steed at mach speeds. Super mario 64 is very limited in comparison. Every toad character only says the same shit, theres nothing new after you beat the game, its the same levels for ever and ever. Mario has an annoying voice that was used to entertain literal children, the game is piss easy, the levels are tiny, the music is the best part, bowser looks like a fukushima inhabitant, no yoshi, shitty bosses, brainlet humor, no hard mode, etc...

No go back to /v/ and cry you little bitch.

[Anonymous No.4795208]

>>4795120
>especially when fully 3D games were still in their infancy.
>1996
>the year that Quake came out
you realize that pc gamers had been playing fully 3d games for more than 10 years by this point right?

[Anonymous No.4795209]

>>4795203
>uses terms like brainlet
>I’m the one that should go back to /v/

This guy. Yeesh.

[Anonymous No.4795212]

Elder Scrolls games are aids. Perfect storm of shallow mechanics, bad graphics, bad animations, nonexistent level design, recycled assets, and game bugs. Big, bloated time sinks for the unemployed.

[Anonymous No.4795217]

>>4795208
Yep and none of them came close to running as smoothly or looking as good as Super Mario 64. That’s the point I’m trying to get across. Just because 3D games already existed doesn’t meant SM64 wasn’t hugely influential.

[Anonymous No.4795220]

>>4795209
Great argument, dumbass.

>jeesh fellas hes said brainlet omg lol.

[Anonymous No.4795224]

>>4795212
>Big, bloated time sinks
Modern single player games in a nutshell

[Anonymous No.4795229]

>>4795217
Its like this >>4795062 >>4795078


You just cant get it. Elite frontier has great, smooth controls, fully 3d in a universe thats a 1:1 comparison of reality. You dumbshit asstard!!

[Anonymous No.4795232]

>>4795224
"Open world games" in that sense are a blight, yes. And Daggerfall is just as bad as every other Elder Scrolls game.

[Anonymous No.4795241]

>>4795232
You ever play daggergall? Dont answer, i know you tried it once in dosbox and couldnt muster up the brain power to create your character or get out of privateers hold. Kek

[Anonymous No.4795246]

>>4795229
It’s an impressive game for its time, no question but it’s also a flight sim. No other game before Mario 64 had a fully polygonal humanoid character move so fluidly.

[Anonymous No.4795248]

>>4795241
Of course I've played it, its abandonware that's been freely available for years. I will grant that it was "way ahead of its time". For its open world is even bigger (many times so) and even emptier of anything approaching gameplay than even the shallowest Ubisoft release today.

[Anonymous No.4795291]

>>4795248
I will never understand the love for either randomly/procedurally generated content or big empty sandboxes. When arguing with certain RPG fags they go like "oh I don't like story telling, I don't want you to tell me how my character is" but in the end all they get is empty shit. These are the guys that as kids write fanfiction because they can't stand seeing their favorite character on their favorite show being cucked.

[Anonymous No.4795324]

>>4795291
Same here. Call me a drone all you want but this thread mostly seems to consist of a couple of old school PC dorks with a weird axe to grind with Nintendo.

[Anonymous No.4795367]

>>4795246
Quake was released 1 day before Mario 64 (June 22nd vs June 23rd 1996) and Quake was far ahead of this silliness in every respect.

[Anonymous No.4795379]

Biggest leap in gaming was Dragon's Lair.

Up until then you looked at barely distinct pixels or abstract vector shapes with little bleeps and bloops for sound. Suddenly you could control a cartoon just a year or so after Donkey Kong was released..

[Anonymous No.4795383]

>>4795324
>stating objective facts in response to the ignorant gibberings of an adult child who lives life with blinders and moves goalposts faster than the Sheriff of Nottingham at a field goal competition is considered "an axe to grind with Nintendo"
there is more to life and gaming than your Nintendo
maybe as a child you only ever played NES games but objective reality is not centered around your own personal experiences or the wonky history you learned from some ecelebate on YouTube

[Anonymous No.4795403]

>>4795379
Biggest leap in gaming was Wing Commander 3 because it proved you could combine a dull space flight sim with lousy physics and retarded collision detection with a low-budget sci-fi movie starring the unemployed actor formerly known as luke skywalker, the bully from back to the future, the guy from a clockwork orange who tap dances on people's faces, and an old 80's porn star who has since gone back to being a porn star in her geriatric years

[Anonymous No.4795426]

>>4795367
Claim that if you want. Tomb Raider was also released in 1996 and would be a more direct comparison. While I do think Core’s control scheme was clever, Lara moves like a clunky tank by comparison.

[Anonymous No.4795430]

>>4795383
Your sole argument seems to be that fully polygonal games existed on PC prior to Mario 64 and therefore any improvements Nintendo made to 3D game design are invalid. Patently ridiculous.

[Anonymous No.4795760]

>>4795078
Based

[Anonymous No.4795864]

>>4793971
t. -10 years old when mario64 came out.

[Anonymous No.4796182]

>>4795430
By the way this is the same thing as saying Resident Evil brought nothing new to the table because Alone in the Dark was already a thing. This is such a willfully contrarian argument that I see all the fucking time on this hipster board.

[Anonymous No.4796223]

>>4794852
>large, free roaming 3D worlds
There were dozens of games that did the same things in the years prior. Take off the Nintendo fanboy goggles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qca_bXtxIe4

[Anonymous No.4796235]

>>4796182
Resident Evil is a masterpiece of game design that allowed mechanics that could not possibly be done on a 2D console. Mario 64 is an inferior game to Super Mario World that looked pretty and allowed you to walk around in 360 degrees in a barren empty world that had a conceptual problem of not being able offer any challenge.
Resident Evil is an example of using new technology to provide a new type of game. Mario 64 is an example of using new technology to add an extra dimension to an old series.

[Anonymous No.4796260]

>>4796223
That’s great. Now show me an example of a game before SM64 where you don’t play as a space ship flying around rudimentary polygonal environments with zero texture mapping. Mario’s fluid movement in a large, detailed 3D space was a giant leap forward for games. Anyone that says otherwise is just doing so to be contrarian.

[Anonymous No.4796265]

>>4794814
Doom felt as revolutionary. FF VII was a great game but I never got the feeling of being on the bleeding edge of technology from it. But if it was your first 3d RPG I could see it.

Virtua Cop and Virtua Fighter were revolutionary, but I think we can assume most people in this thread would be answering from a Western perspective and didn't play these games a ton in the arcades. In Japan I could see Virtua Fighter being a mind-blowing game when it was released and everyone could go and play it every day at nearby arcades.

[Anonymous No.4796282]

>>4796260
>Anyone that says otherwise is just doing so to be contrarian.
Fuck you and fuck this attitude. There are no facts only interpretations.

[Anonymous No.4796287]

>>4795179
>Some of the first games I played were fully polygonal, with full 3d movement. No, they weren't nearly as smooth or fast, and didn't look as good. But there was nothing mindblowing about Mario 64.
This is some real holier than thou revisionist bullshit. I don't care if you had played every 3d game ever made up to that point, SM64 was still a huge leap forward from what existed. It is night and day the difference between it and previous attempts at 3d games.

[Anonymous No.4796303]

>>4796282
Nope, put your money where your mouth is then. Tomb Raider is the only thing that comes close and Lara’s movement is nowhere near what SM64 achieved.

[Anonymous No.4796327]

>>4796303
Hell I’ll even answer my own question: Jumping Flash was at least a step above these old PC flight sims you guys have been posting. At least it had textures.

[Anonymous No.4796330]

>>4796303
>what SM64 achieved.
No one disputed Mario 64 is a groundbreaking 3D platformer. I think 3D platformers are a inherently shit genre of game and that a pretty 3D platformer isn't an achievement for gaming in general. At best its a good tech demo for the N64.

[Anonymous No.4796337]

>>4796330
It was a ground breaking 3D game period. Look at all these other examples being posted. Very crude environments with no texture mapping. Mario 64 was the first game to have a fairly detailed human-ish character that moved smoothly through large-for-the-time, detailed levels. This was a major achievement for games in 1996 and I don’t know why you all want to shit on Nintendo and say it was nothing special.

[Anonymous No.4796342]

The biggest leap forward was Shenmue.

[Anonymous No.4796358]

>>4796337
>fairly detailed human-ish character that moved smoothly through large-for-the-time, detailed levels
I could say the same thing about fucking Virtual Hydlide.

[Anonymous No.4796379]

>>4796358
https://youtube.com/watch?v=f9offfJV-O0

Oh yes, just look at this silky smooth gameplay. Totally the same thing.

[Anonymous No.4796394]

>>4796337
>I don’t know why you all want to shit on Nintendo and say it was nothing special.
Stop turning it into a console war thing. Mario 64 had good graphics and controls well. Its a bad game because 3D platformers are inherently lacking any way to make them difficult or give them any kind of depth.

[Anonymous No.4796397]

>>4796379
Its a kusoge but you get the idea.

[Anonymous No.4796401]

>>4796394
That’s not what we’re arguing about though. I don’t care if you don’t like 3D platformers.

[Anonymous No.4796446]

>>4796394
I wasn’t even an N64 guy but come on. Super Mario 64 was a landmark 3D game regardless of genre. I can’t believe anyone wasn’t impressed the first time they made Mario run around outside the castle.

[Anonymous No.4796696]

>>4796330
Could you be even more of an insufferable faggot and narrow minded cunt?

[Anonymous No.4796709]

>>4795078
fuck off with this shit.

[Anonymous No.4796742]

>>4794691
jumping flash! came out a year earlier

[Anonymous No.4796749]

>>4795430
>>4796182
>willfully contrarian
it was the prevailing opinion at the time among gamers who weren't children playing with babby's first video game console that Santa brought them.
We PC gamers didn't even notice these "groundbreaking and revolutionary" games existed outside of a few TV commercials here and there.
They may have been revolutionary from the perspective of a Nintendo player but for everyone else it was just "oh so the kids have 3D games now too, do they?"
and we kind of chuckled at seeing all that 3D hardware chugging away to run Super Mario Brothers
it may be an elitist perspective but most genXers who had a real passion for games abandoned console gaming around the late 16-bit era when platformers and fighting games had worn out their charm.
3D platformers were only a thing for late millennials
Nobody else played them or was even slightly impressed by them.

[Anonymous No.4796752]

>>4796696
>Could you be even more of an insufferable faggot and narrow minded cunt?
Yes, he could be you

[Anonymous No.4796817]

>>4796749
See >>4796337. All of the examples of fully polygonal PC games posted in this thread just look like a slightly more impressive Star Fox. Super Mario 64 came along and blew away anything you snobs had at the time.

[Anonymous No.4796823]

>>4796742
Already brought this up and I like the game a lot. However, it was in first person and had much smaller levels than SM64.

[Anonymous No.4796838]

>>4796817
You know what, I take this back. None of the dorky mid-90s 3D flight sims you guys have posted look as good as Star Fox 2. PCs straight up had nothing even close to Mario 64 in 1996.

[Anonymous No.4796903]

>>4796838
ok, I see now that you're either a troll or a nutter, your sonichu-like obsession with Mario 64 is more pathetic than anything.
I'm done with you

[Anonymous No.4796910]

>>4796903
I've asked multiple times for you PC elitists to put your money where your mouth is. Show me a single PC game from that era that comes even close to looking and running as good as SM64. You can't because there isn't. PC gaming wouldn't catch up until a year or so later when consumer level graphics accelerators became more widely available.

[Anonymous No.4796917]

>>4794579
>tfw impressed by the scope of this game and have a great deal of respect for it
>I'm fucking terrible at it and can't get anywhere

[Anonymous No.4796931]

>>4795246
No other game in retro has as big of map as elite frontier! The controls were smooth and the ships were 3d. The planets were 3d, the battles could be more like elite, but its still fun. Super mario 64 is a great platformer, but its not as revolutionary as you think. I think tomb raider is more innovative than sm64, same with resident evil and virtua fighter. I also think the state of gaming today is disgusting. The only 3d platformer that does well is always mario. Why? Nostalgia! A game could be made that is just like mario, but if nintendo called it something else, it wouldnt sell as much. Luckily a few great new titles slip past each year, or fuck man id give up on new vidya.

[Anonymous No.4796954]

>>4796931
>The only 3d platformer that does well is always mario.

Mario is essentially the only 3D platformer around outside of indie stuff or Ratchet and Clank. Can you even name some others from the last three years or so?

[Anonymous No.4797010]

>>4796749
You keep on mentioning 3D platformers and that is a narrow scope. Mario 64 set a standard and expectation in how you control a character in a third person view and tackling how camera controls functioned. A players viewpoint is different from a first person game to one that revolves around the character.

This applies to a ton of games that 3D and use a third person view, and they are surely more than just 3D platformers.

[Anonymous No.4797076]

>>4797010
Thank you. I've been trying to get this point across the entire thread.

[Anonymous No.4797105]

>>4797010
3rd person 3d games are juvenile crap though.

[Anonymous No.4797112]

>>4797105
The subject of the thread is video games that pushed gaming forward, not genres that you personally don't like, dum-dum.

[Anonymous No.4797134]

>>4795078
kys

[Anonymous No.4797476]

>>4794523
>And seeing how games nowadays take a lot from Zelda instead of arcades
Quarters were the first microtransaction

[Anonymous No.4797481]

>>4797476
Dimes were

[Anonymous No.4797482]

>>4796260

[Anonymous No.4797581]

>>4797105
Video games are a juvenile pastime, so that is a moot point.

[Anonymous No.4797598]

>>4797482
Mmhmm.

[Anonymous No.4797607]

>>4797482
Put your money where your mouth is, PC fags. If SM64 was nothing special and didn’t advance the industry, then surely you can show me a PC game from the same year that was more important and revolutionary. So far all you’ve given me are old flight sims that look worse than Star Fox.

[Anonymous No.4797609]

>>4793647
SM64 probably. It did everything right.

[Anonymous No.4797617]

>>4796931
Tomb Raider still holds up pretty well but the grid based system just doesn’t feel as natural to run around in as Mario 64. TR was essentially still using a modified form of Resident Evil style tank controls.

[Anonymous No.4797649]

>>4797607
Whats the point? You have already said Resident Evil and Tomb Raider don't count because they don't control well and the best PC of 1996 for me was Command and Conquer which i'm sure you will call ugly and say it has bad controls. Shoot em ups let you move in any direction you want so doing that in a third person platformer is not impressive, its a completely arbitrary milestone of "game that lets you move your character like a shoot em up in 3D space" which I will concede Mario 64 did very well. It just isn't anything more than a footnote in gaming.

[Anonymous No.4797659]

>>4797649
>best PC of 1996
*best PC game of 1996

[Anonymous No.4797660]

>>4797649
That’s my point. You guys are just not giving enough credit to how much the freedom of movement in SM64 changed the way 3D games are made. It was a massive achievement and that alone makes it one of the most important games in history. I will always argue against you PC snobs when you try to claim it was nothing special.

[Anonymous No.4797663]

>>4797134
Nintendiddlers are just mad that their advertising schemes didn't manipulate as many people as they thought it would.

[Anonymous No.4797672]

>>4797649
>Shoot em ups let you move in any direction you want

In a 2D space. If that were easy to achieve in a 3D space some other game would have done it long before Super Mario 64 but no. In 1996, there was nothing else like it on the market.

[Anonymous No.4797676]

>>4793647
Pac-Land was the first true side-scrolling platformer, came out a year before SMB and changed the course of video games for the best part of two decades. Alongside Space Invaders, Dragon Quest and Wolfenstein 3D it’s among the most influential video games ever made.

[Anonymous No.4797680]

>>4797676
What makes a game a true side-scrolling platformer?

[Anonymous No.4797681]

>>4797649
>"game that lets you move your character like a shoot em up in 3D space"
I would like to congratulate you for figuring out the most astonishingly stupid way to describe Mario 64. I don't really have anything to add to this conversation, I just wanted you to know that I'm very proud of you.

[Anonymous No.4797689]

>>4797672
>If that were easy to achieve in a 3D space some other game would have done it long before Super Mario 64
Plenty of first person games did it long before Mario 64. Quake predates Mario 64 so it isn't just early FPS with primitive graphics either.

[Anonymous No.4797693]

>>4797689
Yes, first person and that's important to note. Your viewpoint in a game like Quake is essentially acting as a 'back wall' so to speak. Nothing prior to Super Mario 64 had achieved that freedom of movement with a third person perspective, fully polygonal character and environment. On top of that, the environments were open, vibrant and detailed rather than simple blocks or corridors.

[Anonymous No.4797694]

>>4797693
>Nothing prior to Super Mario 64 had achieved that freedom of movement with a third person perspective, fully polygonal character and environment. On top of that, the environments were open, vibrant and detailed rather than simple blocks or corridors.
Again. Virtual Hydlide.

[Anonymous No.4797698]

>zelda
>cheap made trash 'adventure' for console cucks who never saw WRPG's on computers
This is example of leftist basedboy degenerate cuck who likes niggers and basedtendo switch.

[Anonymous No.4797702]

>>4797694
>Virtual Hydlide.
Yup, it's just like Dan Houser always said: "Anyone who makes 3D games who says they’ve not borrowed something from Virtual Hydlide is lying."

[Anonymous No.4797705]

>>4797698
WRPGers are anti-fun. At least Zelda is fun.

[Anonymous No.4797706]

Basedboy, why do you like trash from cucktendo?

[Anonymous No.4797714]

>>4797694
Again. Virtual Hydlide used sprites and looks like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9offfJV-O0

[Anonymous No.4797715]

>>4797705
Because your brain is become degenerate from consumption of onions and all that you can play is degenerate childish games with flashy graphics?

[Anonymous No.4797716]

>>4797694
What about '"fully polygonal" aren't you understanding here?

[Anonymous No.4797729]

>>4797680
Prior to Pac-Land their were side-scrolling games in which one guides an avatar along a linear path to an end goal yet none of these games exhibited the tropes which we now consider integral to the side-scrolling platformer genre: for example, traversing vertically and horizontally arranged platforms; jumping to avoid enemies and pitfalls; character specific jump mechanics or “physics”; multiple levels, each with a different theme that signalled progression through a “world”; collectable items and power ups. It undoubtedly set the tone for all platformers after, up to and beyond Mario 64.

[Anonymous No.4797753]

>>4797729
Well technically Pac-Land didn’t have any actual platforms iirc, but certainly there were obstacles that had to be jumped over in order to progress.

[Anonymous No.4797758]

>>4797753
it did have platforms

[Anonymous No.4797769]

>>4797715
Wrpgers are designed for insecure men with tiny dicks devoid of any personality.

[Anonymous No.4797853]

>>4795169
Sm64 is special because of its lack of polish

[Anonymous No.4797919]

>>4797853
You’re insane if you think that game wasn’t crazy polished by 1996 standards.

[Anonymous No.4798090]

>>4797715
Consumption of onions...wha

[Anonymous No.4798124]

>>4798090
Don’t bother. We don’t need that garbage on this board too.

[Anonymous No.4798146]

>>4797769
Nice butthurt onions loving cuck. Are niggers fucking your wife?

[Anonymous No.4798163]

>>4793647
Donkey Kong was. Having four different levels which all play very differently in the same game was unprecedented.

[Anonymous No.4798524]

>>4797607
>>4797660
Lmao, fucking Marble Madness from 1984 had the same intricate controls and freedom of movement as SM64 has in a 3D space.

>b-b-buh!
Yea can't wait to see you desperately move the goalposts yet again Nintenyearólds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5PBb8Rf00Y

[Anonymous No.4798530]

>>4798524
Isometric is not the same as 3D. Also, see >>4797716

[Anonymous No.4798543]

>>4798524
lolwut. its obvious youre just contrarianfagging but mario does fucking backflips and shit what are you even

[Anonymous No.4798550]

>>4798543
The dork that tried to compare SM64 to fucking garbage like Virtual Hydlide was especially funny.

[Anonymous No.4798558]

>>4798530
TOPFUCKINGKEK not even a minute passed and they moved the goalposts. You guys are hilarious.

>>4798543
I see senpai, it's revolutionary cuz you can do backflips n shizzle dayum boiii!

[Anonymous No.4798559]

>>4798558
I didn’t move the goalposts. There’s 3D and then there’s isometric perspective which is what you’re actually talking about. Isometric gives the illusion of 3D, ie Super Mario RPG.

[Anonymous No.4798563]

>>4798559
Adding to this: Going back to your Marble Madness example, that game has grid/tile based movement system just like Tomb Raider. SM64 was the first fully 3D third person perspective game to overcome that obstacle and give you true free range of motion.

[Anonymous No.4798564]

>>4798559
>ie Super Mario RPG.
I see you are well versed on a variety of different franchises.

[Anonymous No.4798567]

>>4798564
Anything else you wanted to add?

[Anonymous No.4798570]

>>4798543
A contrairianfag believes in what they're saying or at least thinks it's plausible. Being a contrairianfag would be like saying Gex 3 is as good as Mario 64 or Whacky Races is as good as Mario Kart. The guy is clearly a troll.

[Anonymous No.4798576]

>>4798570
I’d like to think he genuinely thought he had something with Marble Madness. Good old /vr/.

[Anonymous No.4798585]

>>4798563
>SM64 was the first fully 3D third person perspective game to overcome that obstacle and give you true free range of motion.
>How will they move the goalposts next
>B-buh muh backflips!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF_a6qMeWP8

[Anonymous No.4798597]

>>4798585
Not on a Nintendo console so it doesn't exist.

[Anonymous No.4798603]

>>4798585
Why didn’t you post this first instead of Marble Madness, dum-dum?

[Anonymous No.4798618]

>>4798603
Marble Madness was in response to >it was the first 3D game with intricate controls and freedom of movement!

This is the response to what they moved the goalposts to afterwards. The mental gymnastics it takes to be a Nintendrone is truly astonishing! Can't wait to see what they come up with next.

[Anonymous No.4798621]

>>4798618
Marble Madness isn’t a 3D game though. You were wrong on that one.

[Anonymous No.4798623]

>>4798576

I mean, I'd leave the conversation there with virtually anything else he could possibly have have come up with. But bruh, he compared Marble Madness with Mario 64.

>Lmao, fucking Marble Madness from 1984 had the same intricate controls and freedom of movement as SM64 has in a 3D space.

MARBLE MADNESS vs MARIO 64 in terms of intricate controls and freedom of movement in 3D space.

[Anonymous No.4798625]

>>4798621
>He was a fan of the 3D graphics used in Battlezone and I, Robot, but felt that the visuals lacked definition and wanted to create a game with "solid and clean" 3D graphics
The creator of the game disagrees with you.

[Anonymous No.4798628]

>>4794974
Nigga please, old games were "hard" because you were completely inexperienced and/or a toddler.

[Anonymous No.4798629]

>>4798618
As neat as Alpha Waves is, I’d say Mario 64 still holds the title for first 3D third person game that’s actually a fully formed game and not just an experimental thing. I’d also argue that Mario was the first fairly detailed fully polygonal human(ish) character in a 3D game. Feel free to dispute.

[Anonymous No.4798630]

>>4798621
>>4798625
You need to change "3D perspective" to "utilizing a 3D physics engine" making Mario 64 sound even less impressive as a footnote of gaming.

[Anonymous No.4798631]

>>4798628
I play stuff like Truxton II which is harder than almost every modern game even with infinite continues. Nice try

[Anonymous No.4798634]

>>4798629
>fairly detailed fully polygonal human(ish) character in a 3D game
Virtua fighter.

[Anonymous No.4798640]

>>4798625
Well he’s wrong. Isometric perspective is illusory 3D.

[Anonymous No.4798641]

>>4798570
What are you even implying by using the word contrarianfag? No one has disputed Mario 64 is a groundbreaking 3D platformer and you think its contrarian to say Mario 64 is not a massive technological jump for videogames in general?

[Anonymous No.4798645]

>>4798634
Virtua Fighter is on a 2D plane if I’m not mistaken.

[Anonymous No.4798652]

>>4798641
But it was a massive technological leap for video games. Freely running around in a detailed, fully texture mapped and fully polygonal world? That had never been done up until that point.

[Anonymous No.4798660]

>>4798629
>SM64 was the most influential game of all time
>Gets BTFO

>Well still, SM64 paved the way for large, free roaming 3D worlds
>Gets BTFO again

>But still, SM64 was a huge jump in graphics in 3D games for what we'd seen at the time
>Gets BTFO yet again

>Ah, b-but, Mario was definitely the first game with fluid, intricate movement in a 3D space
>BTFO yet again

>B-but, umm.. SM64 was definitely the first true 3D game with polygon graphics and freedom of movement
>BTFO AGAIN

>B-but still, SM64 still holds the title for first 3D third person game that’s actually a fully formed game and not just an experimental thing. I’d also argue that Mario was the first fairly detailed fully polygonal human(ish) character in a 3D game

You drooling Nintendrone zombies are hilarious. I'm sure if Mario told you to jump off a bridge you'd do it.

Hi, I'm Mario, go jump off a bridge.

[Anonymous No.4798661]

>>4798652
Why run when you can drive?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Qk7jbj494s

[Anonymous No.4798664]

>>4798570
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHh3MktBqq4
holy shit, fuck this thread I'm just going to put this on repeat instead

[Anonymous No.4798669]

>>4798661
>a linear racetrack is the same as SM64’s open environments

Now who’s moving goalposts?

[Anonymous No.4798670]

>>4798660
Those are all true except for the first one maybe.

[Anonymous No.4798679]

>>4798629
i'm sure if we kept going your reasoning behind SM64 being innovative would get so specific and niche you'd go past the word limit.

[Anonymous No.4798691]

>>4798669
He's just a fool. If you go by his rules you could say that no videogame has ever expanded past th vectrex because in vectrex games you can go all directions in some games. Even then he could have picked a better example of Mario Madness. Mario 64 was not just much better than Marble Madness, it was much better than every other videogame.

[Anonymous No.4798693]

>>4798679
Nothing I said is wrong. See >>4798652

[Anonymous No.4798695]

>>4798691
than Marble Madness*

[Anonymous No.4798704]

>>4798691
>much better than every other videogame.
Its worse than Super Mario World as a game but better as a tech demo. Its a collectable and utterly devoid of challenge.

[Anonymous No.4798706]

>>4798704
>collectable
collectathon

[Anonymous No.4798720]

>>4798693
I don't now who you are but you just described Tomb Raider

[Anonymous No.4798726]

>>4798720
Yeah but Mario 64 was a massive technological leap for video games. Freely running around in a detailed, fully texture mapped and fully polygonal world? That had never been done on 64 bit processors up until that point.

[Anonymous No.4798727]

>>4798704
>utterly devoid of challenge
it's fun idiot

[Anonymous No.4798775]

>>4798720
I don’t think you’ve played it lately. Tomb Raider uses a grid based system and modified tank controls. Lara moves like a tanker truck compared to Mario.

[Anonymous No.4798783]

>>4798775
Yeah, and then someone tells you another game with similar motion released earlier and you add another few words about why it doesn't qualify in your arbitrary criteria. We get it.

[Anonymous No.4798784]

>>4798775
Also: I’m not denying that Tomb Raider’s control scheme was a clever workaround for the era before the DuslShock was released but there’s still a huge difference between Lara’s stiff movement and Mario’s super fluid feel.

[Anonymous No.4798785]

>>4798783
It’s not arbitrary. Mario 64 brought a ton of improvements to 3D game design and deserves to be acknowledged for that.

[Anonymous No.4798798]

The concept of an overworld with maze-like dungeons had already been done ages ago in RPGs such as Ultima. As far as concepts go, it was nothing new, but it expanded and refined on them. Just like BotW did just last year.

[Anonymous No.4798803]

>>4798785
Ah I see, now it's improvement to game design. Keep us updated.

[Anonymous No.4798814]

>>4798803
Okay let’s compromise then:

Super Mario 64 built upon and vastly improved existing elements and put them all together in a total package that made for a landmark and hugely influential game. I’d argue the same for Alone in the Dark to Resident Evil.

[Anonymous No.4798826]

>>4798814
>a landmark and hugely influential game.
What non 3D platformers did it influence?

[Anonymous No.4798837]

>>4798826
Honestly, I’d divide it.

Most influential 2D: Donkey Kong
3D: SM64

[Anonymous No.4798864]

>>4798826
>platformers

It influenced every third person 3D game since, not just platformers. Even if you don’t like those types of games, it’s still true.

[Anonymous No.4799031]

>>4798826
Just gonna quote this anon: >>4797010

[Anonymous No.4799740]

>>4793647

[Anonymous No.4799784]

>>4799740
There is a mistake in the image. The image of Dragon Slayer is actually Dragon Slayer on the MSX.
I suggest you replace it with the GB version.

[Anonymous No.4799801]

>>4799740
Not to derail the thread or anything, but is there any place to check on which games have inspired most of the genres we have today?

[Anonymous No.4799816]

>>4799740

more than anything this picture illustrates how good nintendo was at taking overwrought tedious games like hydlide and dragon slayer and making them actually fun, playable, and able to stand the test of time

[Anonymous No.4799825]

>>4799816
Agreed Comrade, only Nintendo games are fun. All others must be purged.

[Anonymous No.4799831]

>>4798784
this dude talking about feeling Marios super fluid

[Anonymous No.4799839]

>>4799831
Given his posts, that does indeed make a lot of sense

[Anonymous No.4799849]

>>4799825
You're probably shitposting but I mostly agree. With very few exceptions, there are very few third party games on each Nintendo console that are any good. And even the exceptions aren't that fun.

[Anonymous No.4799935]

>>4799849
I’d say this is especially true of older PC games. I have a very difficult time believing that even the staunchest console haters in this thread legitimately enjoy playing something as tedious as Hydlide.

[Anonymous No.4799937]

>>4799935
How is Hydlide 1 tedious?
It's short and simple.

[Anonymous No.4799941]

>>4799937
To each his own but I’ve never understood Images like this >>4799740. Is this trying to imply that just because there were similar games made first, Nintendo’s major improvements in their own games don’t count? I’d acknowledge Hydlide as influential but not particularly fun to play these days.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=LgFtO1FCSko

[Anonymous No.4799964]

>>4799941
I think the image is supposed to be a joke given all the wrong information and obvious shit.
Zelda 2 is absolutely nothing like Xanadu. Nothing is.
It was a huge leap forward but in a direction that nobody else followed.

Hydlide Special is a poor representation of the game.

[Anonymous No.4799968]

>>4799935
>console haters
I prefer consoles I just don't think Nintendo are one of the better or more influential companies. Their family friendly focus was fine in the 8 bit era but they never learned to adapt with the times. Every console after the Famicom had at least one competing console better than it.

[Anonymous No.4799970]

>>4799968
Nintendo Japan wasn't that bad but Nintendo of America was a horrible company.

[Anonymous No.4799974]

>>4799968
I'd strongly disagree with you when it comes to them not being influential. Sega probably wouldn't have invested so much in the home console market if it weren't for the success of the NES and even in the 80s arcade realm Nintendo's stuff was considered very innovative.

[Anonymous No.4799979]

>>4799974
>Sega probably wouldn't have invested so much in the home console market if it weren't for the success of the NES
Maybe not straightaway but the Saturn and Dreamcast were pretty much identical to the Titan and Naomi arcade boards.

[Anonymous No.4799981]

I’d have to say donkey kong country because of the pre rendered graphics which gave Nintendo a lot of exposure for their already huge company

[Anonymous No.4799987]

>>4799981
I still have the promotional VHS that Nintendo sent out for DKC somewhere at my parents’ house.

[Anonymous No.4799991]

>>4799941
>Nintendo’s major improvements
Like what, fanboy? The image is a direct refutation of "nintendo did x first" morons.

[Anonymous No.4800000]

>>4799991
If you think the original Legend of Zelda is nothing more than a direct ripoff of Hydlide with no improvements made, then there's no point in arguing with you. I'm not claiming that Nintendo's famous games were the first of their kind; I'm saying there were several major improvements made to gameplay and presentation. Generally this is Nintendo's biggest strength as a developer.

[Anonymous No.4800006]

>>4800000
Nice get

[Anonymous No.4800012]

>>4800000
>I'm not claiming that Nintendo's famous games were the first of their kind
We won guys.

[Anonymous No.4800014]

>>4800012
Sure, I guess. What confuses me is your insistence that because similar games previously existed, this somehow invalidates Nintendo's contributions to those genres.

[Anonymous No.4800023]

>>4800014
Adding to this: you could claim that the entire fantasy adventure genre started with Adventure on the Atari 2600. I still contend that additional complexity and new gameplay mechanics are just as important as getting there first. Nintendo may not have created these genres but they were very often the ones that did it best.

[Anonymous No.4800034]

>>4799740
>>4799825
Have you considered that Nintendo's games are so influential not because they were the first of their kind but because they were the first of their kind with such a high level of complexity and polish?

[Anonymous No.4800035]

>>4800023
>Nintendo did not create those genres and they were very seldom the ones that did it best.
Dragon Slayer blows Zelda out of the water and that's before we even get to Ys.

[Anonymous No.4800036]

>>4800035
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aq9-xp8yc80

Yeah... if you say so.

[Anonymous No.4800038]

>>4800034
You ever considered that they were one of the first major publishers after the great video game crash due to their in-house development marking, backing from a pre-industrial parent card game company and were able to get a lot of exposure overseas despite having one of the most technologically limited home consoles of its day? That maybe the lowest common denominator of video game consumer isn't the most discerning and just goes for whatever is marketed best/most readily available?

[Anonymous No.4800045]

>>4800036
The worst part is that you're trying to argue about the quality of a game you've never played. Someone who has played both games has an opinion that is worth magnitudes more than the one of a fanboy who hasn't even tried the other side.

[Anonymous No.4800047]

>>4800045
All I'm saying is there's clearly a sizable difference between this and what Nintendo accomplished in LoZ.

[Anonymous No.4800048]

>>4800034
This >>4800038
And also, consider thay thet simply may have been the "first popular game of that kind". You have the same effect with FFVII in Europe. And then the whole "like Dark Souls" shit recently.

[Anonymous No.4800049]

>>4800038
If Nintendo's games had been garbage, they would have quickly crashed and burned like Atari. They weren't though.

[Anonymous No.4800050]

>>4800049
Nice argument. Popular things are always the best, am I right?

[Anonymous No.4800053]

>>4800050
Didn't say popular. I said high quality which games like Super Mario Bros. and Legend of Zelda undeniably are.

[Anonymous No.4800059]

>>4800053
Super Mario Bros. is OK, but I highly prefer the Ghost n Goblins arcade from the same year.
Zelda isn't my cup of tea at all and I hate that it became the template for a lot of modern games. It's not bad, but eh.

[Anonymous No.4800064]

>>4800023
>>4800034
This thread is about innovation, not about who was better at refining someone else's idea. gtfo

[Anonymous No.4800067]

>>4800059
Still, my point is that the NES wouldn't have been such a huge hit if their initial game offerings had been poorly made crap. I agree with this guy >>4799816. Nintendo's specialty has pretty much always been their ability to take core concepts and make them accessible to a mass audience while still maintaining a high level of quality.

[Anonymous No.4800069]

>>4800064
No it's not. If it were just about being the first to do something, then 3D games never would've advanced beyond this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF_a6qMeWP8&t=125s

[Anonymous No.4800070]

>>4800067
I guess you mean people had higher standards for games then, because that sure as hell doesn't happen now

[Anonymous No.4800072]

>>4800070
True enough sadly.

[Anonymous No.4800096]

>>4799964
>Zelda 2 is absolutely nothing like Xanadu. Nothing is.
Well aaaaactually, there is still Faxanadu. On the other hand, that's like saying Battle of Olympus is a Zelda 2 clone even if those two games got a different structure (there's not really an overworld in BoO and you don't gain experience for higher levels either).

[Anonymous No.4800121]

>>4800069
That game is more influential than SM64 because it influenced SM64, not sure why this is so difficult to understand.

If we look at historical inventions, the historical footnote goes to the original inventor, not the guy who made the computer another 10 times faster.

[Anonymous No.4800150]

>>4800096
Maybe you should actually try playing both games. Just because it got developed as a Famicom port of Xanadu doesn't mean it has much of the original left.

[Anonymous No.4800582]

>>4800049
>If Nintendo's games had been garbage,
No one said they were garbage.
>they would have quickly crashed and burned like Atari.
The video game crash had nothing to do with Atari's quality. You're a fucking idiot.

[Anonymous No.4800594]

>>4800121
> influenced sm64
what a load of garbage. completely false.

[Anonymous No.4800597]

>>4800582
quality and oversupply was the biggest problem. atari did not help.

[Anonymous No.4800607]

>>4800597
Quality was not any aspect of the reason, you obfuscate retard.

[Anonymous No.4800728]

>>4800594
Haha oh right, I forgot Miyamoto got his inspiration for this one while doing backflips in the Empress' castle near his home

[Anonymous No.4800753]

>>4800121
Agree to disagree. Alpha Waves is a neat novelty but Super Mario 64 brought 3D gaming into the modern era.

[Anonymous No.4800757]

>>4800607
It absolutely was. Consumers started getting wary of paying full prices for lazily made garbage games.