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/vr/ - Retro Games

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4790062 No.4790062 [Reply] [Original]

>get huge HDCRT for my living room because it looks heavenly
>later learn it has more input lag than my monitor, not to mention other CRTs
someone kill me

>> No.4790070

>>4790062
Play "games" like RPGs or VNs that don't require good inputs on it then if you're into those I guess

>> No.4790079

It shouldn't have very bad delay if you feed it 480p or 1080i from an emulator, then use simple filters to give it the SD aesthetic

>> No.4790085

>>4790079
>filters
Really

>> No.4790106
File: 68 KB, 615x653, tvout.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4790106

>>4790085
Yes, really. Some can make it look more like the actual console while preserving the pixel art. Things have gotten much better since the days of ZSNES.

>> No.4790136

>>4790062
hd crts are garbage!
WHY THE FUCK YOU GET ONE?
theres a fucking thread right here aboput what crt to get and you go out for the worst option!
>>4779543

>> No.4790413
File: 62 KB, 2048x1025, 17b71e5fd86b5ea99141b8c135e3fc9f[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4790413

>>4790062
You did fine, anon. The lag on HD CRTs is very low, and they have all kinds of other benefits.

You can use Retroarch shaders to get proper scanlines on 240p games.

You can play fan games that are locked into 16:9 ratio at their native ratio while most CRT owners must use cuck letterboxing or regress to their LCDs.

If you really care about retro and CRTs you'll have a set of

>CRT Television (shadowmask)
>CRT production monitor with RGB (trinitron)
>Desktop CRT PC Monitor
>HD CRT Television
With that every base is covered for the most part.

And of course actual television shows will look amazing on an HD CRT television.

>> No.4790418

>>4790136
It feels like you protest too much, anon. Worried someone else will get there before you?

Not even close to the worst option btw. There are even posts in that thread you linked talking about it.

>> No.4790420

>>4790413
I just use shaders such as crt-royale :-)

>> No.4790428

>>4790420
aperture
crteasymode
tv-out+interlacing

are best for usage with a HD CRT, unless you are wanting to emulate the look of an old TV running a composite connection.

CRT-Royale is more for LCDs.

>> No.4790439

>>4790428
I know. Cancer ray tubes aren't worth the eye fatigue.

>> No.4790490

>>4790070
Even that is made worse because of the interlacing.

>> No.4790526

>>4790490
You'd never notice interlacing in a VN at 1080i.

>> No.4790529

>>4790062
"HD CRTs" are basically the worst case scenario, as far as signal compatibility goes. They do some digital signal processing even on analogue signals, thus ensuring 240p incompatibility and some associated (sometimes very bad) lag. And their digital signal processing is usually bottom rung.

If you want a (zero lag, 100% 240p capable) CRT, by all means get a CRT. And if you want a digital display, by all means get a fast LCD with no post-processing bullshit going on. But an HD CRT is just the worst of both worlds.

>> No.4790567

>>4790529
>They do some digital signal processing even on analogue signals, thus ensuring 240p incompatibility and some associated (sometimes very bad) lag. And their digital signal processing is usually bottom rung.
All negated by pre-scaling.

The lag on HD CRTs is between 1 to 4 frames depending on the model and resolution. 2 frames of lag is not a dramatic amount of lag. 4 is pushing it, but that is when feeding a non-native res (which you should not do if you can help it).

There is more to retro than 240p.

>> No.4790619

>>4790567
for whatever retro that doesn't fall into 240p i rather use a PC CRT.

>> No.4791534

>>4790062
>anime avatar person made a shit decision.
Shocking :^)
>later learn it has more input lag than my monitor
Plus the image quality is shite for 240p content which is 99.9% of all retro games.

>> No.4791539

>>4791534
Image quality is excellent if you use emulation.

>> No.4792083

>>4790062
>input lag meme
>u-uh i-it's totally input lag and not my 30+yo ass' biological lag!

You have started dying already. Get over it.

>> No.4792092
File: 11 KB, 470x313, ADD4364A-6DE2-4A65-94B9-9C2288F7DAE5.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4792092

>>4792083

>> No.4792204

>>4790062
This post perfectly sums up CRTfags: you have no idea about the input lag until you read about it, and now games are apparently unplayable until you get a SHART cable and PVmeme

>> No.4792282

>>4790062
Meanwhile my LCD monitor accepts 240p and has less than half a frame of latency while being less bulky and easier on the eyes than your flickery CRT. Remind me again why people fall for the CRT meme?

>> No.4792346

>>4790062
HD CRTs are great for some stuff just not most /vr/ stuff although slow games like RPGs are definitely great on it.

>> No.4792361

>>4792204
Play FF2 on a Wonderswan, then on a PS1 with CRT, then an emulator with lcd and tell me there is no growing input lag as you move between the devices. But of course you won't, because you can't. You poorfags just love sitting on your pathetic emulation machines and spend your days trying to troll people with actual knowledge and passion for the hobby. Pathetic.

>> No.4792609

To play doubles advocate. Wouldn't a HD CRT look phenomenal with an OSSC since apparently they are only bad at 240p.

>> No.4792686

>>4792282
>still at this over 24 hours later
It's just sad at this point.

>> No.4792690

>>4792361
I don't emulate, I just think it's pointless to get so turbo autistic over it

>> No.4792697

>>4792690
Dude he's asking you to use the Wonderswan and Playstation versions of Final Fantasy 2 to test latency. It's satire.

>> No.4792705

>>4792609
>doubles advocate
By Ocealot's razor, your argument is invalid.

>> No.4792724

>>4792609
Yes, it would.

>> No.4792732

>>4792609
Looks wise, yes. Calibrated, they can look absolutely fantastic.

>> No.4792782
File: 64 KB, 724x354, 1526582325781.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4792782

>>4790413
Bro what?
I don't see why anyone would want to procure every type of tube TV. That's a waste of time and effort. Just pick up what's good for your setup. I imagine most "serious" CRT collectors only get monitors they need.

>>4790062
Honestly your fault OP. If you're gonna do something as drastic as get a massive tube, you should have done your research to make sure it's worth it. Always do your homework. You remind me of pic related.

>> No.4792835

>>4792782
It's tiresome to respond to idiots like you. Lurk moar.

>> No.4792885

>>4792732
>Looks wise, yes.
Is there a catch?

>> No.4792959

>>4792885
I'm not sure if the OSSC supports 1080i output on it's own, which is what you'd want for feeding into an HDCRT. And as has alreadt been said, even when feeding a signal at the TV's native resolution, there will be a bit of delay that you can't avoid, even if minor.

>> No.4792965

>>4792959
>CRT
>native resolution
nigga, you dumb.

>> No.4792995

>>4792965
Don't talk about things you don't understand.

The way that HDCRT TVs work makes them effectively a fixed resolution display. In the case of Sony's offerings, every single thing you feed into an HDCRT is going to be sent through MID and DRC circuitry and scaled to 1080i/540p. With this comes digitization, some image processing, and then conversion back into an analog format for being sent to the CRT itself for display.

As such, yes, an HDCRT TV has a native resolution. And even when it doesn't have to deinterlace from 240p/480i, you're still going to get a frame or two of delay from scaling to that resolution.

>> No.4793001

>>4792995
What about those 100hz CRTs Europe got. Will they have marginally worse or marginally better lag?

>> No.4793013

>>4792732
I will add that not everyone prefers to have well-defined scanlines. I suppose I'm in the minority of people these days, but I have just about got to the point where I enjoy playing a lot of games with a plain exact-multiple scaling + bilinear filter. It's heresy around here and elsewhere to advocate for it, but I think once you've gone the whole round of messing with PVMs, RGB, and native resolutions you get to the point where it doesn't bother you as much to play on something without them. At least it was that way for me.

also, there may be a teensy amount of nostalgia in there for when I played this way years ago in high school.

>tfw at this I have been emulating games for about four times longer than I ever played them on original hardware

>> No.4793072

>>4793001
No personal experience with them given I'm in the US, but I want to say at least some of the Sony sets will also use some form of their DRC for what it does. I would expect the same amount of delay, but can't say for sure.

>> No.4793085

>>4793001
Depends on what you do with them. If you can somehow get a game to run 100 fps then it might be very enjoyable.

>> No.4793092

>>4793072
I'v never seen a HD CRT being in Europe but I love my 100hz Trinitron. I'v 1CC'ed some pretty hard shoot em ups so input lag is definitely negligible. I always see people complain about them but in my experience they are great unless you want 240P. As it stands I have a 22" Philips and the 28" 100hz and I just don't know why people complain about these so much.
I wish there were comparisons between 100hz and HD CRTs.

>> No.4793102

>>4790062
I was about to buy a rear-projection television, thank god vr told me it was shit.

>> No.4793140

>>4793102
Those have their usages too.
>buy something
>don't know what the fuck you are doing with it
>it doesn't magically perform the way you expect
>"it's shittt!!!!!!1111"

>> No.4793149

>>4793140
I know HD CRTs have their uses but what can you do with a rear projection TV?

>> No.4793150

>>4792835
Please, let me know how "idiots like me" who have been on the CRT thread for over 2 years need to "lurk moar". But if you'd like to tell me how the collect-em-all attitude is at all practical, let me know.

I own 5 PVMs, and 2 SD computer monitors. I don't own a cumbersome HDCRT or a high res computer monitor, or even a television because I don't need anything on those. I'm not playing my 16:9 games on them. I don't need RF. I don't need high resolutions for consoles that max out at 480i. Shaders aren't authentic, and I don't care how low lag is, I don't want it.

But I guess I don't really care about retro and CRTs, so nevermind I guess.

>> No.4793153

>>4793149
Play light gun games, basically

>> No.4793164

>>4793153
My parents had one and I had to pull the curtains and turn on the lights when using it in the daytime since you can barely see it under natural light even if the sun isn't shining directly on it.

>> No.4793194

>>4792609
>Doubles advocate

Are you retarded?

>> No.4793218

>>4793194
For all intensive purposes, he is.

>> No.4793225

>>4793164
Agreed. A CRT projector is much better but if you want to play light gun games on a big screen you can get basically for free, that's something you can do with a rear projection.

>> No.4793271

>>4793085
It doesn't work that way anon.

50hz inputs are doubled and interpolated frames are inserted to generate the 100hz display frequency. There's no way to use a 100hz input unfortunately.

>> No.4793341

>>4793271
What happens if you use a 60hz input? Does it go to 120hz or is it slowed down?

>> No.4793530

>>4793150
>2 years and learned nothing
you're not helping your case

>> No.4793535

I have an HD CRT (PVM 20L5) and there’s pretty much zero input lag and it displays 240p/480i, 480p, and 720p just fine

>> No.4793547

>>4793535
Have you tested it with a a 240p test suite?

>> No.4793590
File: 125 KB, 1042x782, japarc2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4793590

>>4793149
Anything you can do with any other CRT, except you must accept the fact you'll want to play in a darkened room and be facing head-on to it. And probably do some work getting it calibrated since most of them you come across these days are way out of alignment. Once you've got that done you take them on a case by case basis. The older ones are basically just the same 15khz display as any old television, but a lot bigger. The newer ones are much the same as HD CRT televisions, they might have some lag due to digital processing. I've even run across SD units that had processing that couldn't be turned off and created pretty bad lag.

The good ones that have been calibrated will have true deep blacks if you feed them a good video signal, which might be a challenge if you live in the US and you are limited to composite and S-video. If you live in a country with SCART there's more potential there because RGB will let easily you get that real black. I think there were some rear-projection TVs made in the early 2000s that were both non-HD and having component inputs. If you track one of those down it could be worth doing something with.

tl;dr they have a limited usage, but a high potential.

Oh, and one more thing: be careful about burn-in on them. They can get it over time more easily than a regular CRT.

They were used in arcade sometimes. But if I were to play on one today I'd probably stick to more cinematic games.

>> No.4793602
File: 763 KB, 786x576, 234234.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4793602

>>4793271
Where's there's a will there's a way. Who knows, maybe it could be hacked? Maybe some of them are not so picky?

>> No.4793679

>>4793535
Those sort of sets do not fall into the same category as HD CRT TVs.

It is a Multiformat/"Multisync" set; Meaning it's capable of switching between, running at, and displaying various frequencies natively. Where as an HDCRT TV is only capable of running at a frequency of ~33.6khz for 1080i/540p, the 20L5 is able to throw a relay or two to switch between 15.7khz, 31khz, 33.6khz, and 45khz as needed. I haven't had a chance to test it much on my own 20L5, but I've heard claims (at least for the similar D-Series BVMs) of being capable of switching to frequencies in between some of the higher ones for things such as 800x600.

Being able to switch between and natively display all those various resolutions is one of big reasons why that model in particular(as well as it's little brother, the 14L5) are so sought after.

>>4793602
Only way to find out is to experiment and try it out; Who knows could find a nice new use for what is currently seen as a less desirable set.

>> No.4793728
File: 126 KB, 640x700, 72ff2ad9_vbattach166496.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4793728

>>4793679
Were there any CRT HDTVs that were actually multi-sync? Everyone talks about the Sony ones, but RCA, Sanyo, and others made them too.

>> No.4793762

>>4793728
Sony gets the most talk, because it's Sony; Call it a meme, call it the Sony tax, but it's just what most people end up fawning over which ends up feeding back into itself when there are numerous other high quality options.

Toshiba HDCRTs and Samsung HDCRTs both scale.

No personal experience with RCA, but is going to do the same in all likelihood.

Actually own a Sanyo HDCRT, and while I haven't actually cared to test it for any sort of lag etc, I'd be willing to bet good money that it does. Haven't used it much for gaming since I turned into an anal jackass.

I'm not saying that there isn't going to be some unicorn set out there that has a tuner and as such is expecting OTA/broadcast usage AND is a "true" multisync set, but I wouldn't expect you to be able to just walk out and randomly fall into one.

If you're looking for something large format, i.e a big ass CRT, that is multisync, the only easy options to point to are the D24 and D32 BVMs, a ~30'' JVC Broadcast Monitor that I can't actually remember the model of atm, or the NEC and Mitsubishi presentation monitors, ranging from ~27-ish'' to 42''.

Or you could always go full retard and get a CRT projector; Or 3.

>> No.4794141

>>4793530
Yet you still avoid saying what it is I "don't know"?

Real edgy anon, you really got me. Guess I don't know anything.

>> No.4794218

>>4793341
60hz is not doubled afaik.

>> No.4794251

>>4790062
You fell for the crt meme. Just stick to emulation, it’s far superior.

>> No.4794260

>>4790062
Thats a shame. I too have a gigantic uselses CRT at the moment. I hauled the damn thing all the way up stairs too, then it died a month later. At least I'm pretty sure it;s dead... The screen doesn't come on and it just makes this loud chirping noise.

I should probably hitup the CRT thread and see if there is a way to fix it without killing myself.

>> No.4794352

>>4794260
OPs CRT isn't useless. At the very least it is still excellent for watching video, and I don't think anyone could reasonably argue it would be poor for playing fifth and six gen games where lag isn't an issue.

>> No.4794709

>>4790062
>get something without knowing about it
>later learn that's retarded
>too retarded to even kill myself so ask others to do it

>> No.4794923

>>4794352
Saturn games look like ass on TVs that can't do 240P natively. other 5th gen consoles should be fine.

>> No.4795025

>>4790062
You should be glad to know that HDCRTs, in most situations, run the same min lag as any old CRT.

If you wanted the guaranteed best delay you would have gotten a proCRT (eg. Sony PVM) or a computer monitor. You should know there are plenty of consumer CRT sets that have minimum delay that is a fraction of a ms (0.0007), while their max is almost a frame. While HDCRT sets run a fraction of a frame for minimum, while up to 40ms for max. The thing here is you can control the max of an HDCRT but you CANNOT on a regular consumer set if the delay is there. Best bet for guaranteed least delay is still a proCRT or a pc crt.

Gaming monitors and most UHD tvs of the last few years are min 0.5 to max of 9ms to 20ms.

>> No.4795329

>>4794923
I actually had my generations mixed up. I meant the sixth and seventh.

>> No.4795357

Reminder that RNG is the only thing stopping you from beating any game with any amount of lag.

>> No.4795360

>>4795357
What?

>> No.4795651

>>4792965
can tell you are actually black.