/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.4787332]

Trying to clear my enormous backlog and am thinking about giving pic related a whirl. Is it actually good or is it overrated?

[Anonymous No.4787372]

Baldur's Gate is underrated because of its wildly popular sequel. People dismiss the first one, but it is a very well constructed game.

[Anonymous No.4787418]

>>4787332
It's divisive. It doesn't have universal appeal anymore. Back at its time it basically spawned a sub-genre, and it is in this game, where it's the most apparent, by what internal logic that sub-genre works. If you are fine with just taking things for granted, then you will almost certainly be better off with pretty much any other Infinity Engine game. This game, after those games, is purely about going back to the roots, to the fundamentals, and going, like, "Oh, I see, what this is all about". It's a tremendously important from the historical perspective, and it does have a very clear point to it (IF you, once again, are interested in fundamentals), but it's simply not all that conventionally entertaining at all. It's much more of a conceptual piece. And its closest relatives among the D&D games are, strangely enough, not all the other Infinity Engine games, but Temple of Elemental Evil and Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor. All three are low-level, down-to-Earth, and each one is built around illustrating a particular high-level concept. Now, try to remember, just how often did you see either ToEE or, even better, RoMD not just mentioned, earnestly RECOMMENDED here? I'd guess, that not very often to say the least. Which is my point exactly.

BG1 is nowadays strictly a love it or hate it game, and it is only interesting as far as you are interested in gaining historical perspective on a sub-genre it spawned, and in analyzing gamedesign as such.

[Anonymous No.4787420]

>>4787418
Speak for yourself, I find it one of the most entertaining RPGs ever made.

[Anonymous No.4787426]

>>4787420
>CONVENTIONALLY entertaining
>UNIVERSAL appeal
I am glad you know what "speaking for yourself" means. However, purely statistically, I'd say, that BG1 is much more often either disliked for what it DOESN'T have in comparison to some or other of later games, disregarded as mediocre, or treated purely as an introduction to Trilogy, over here, as opposed to being valued for what it actually is.
As for me personally, it's my favorite Infinity game. Then again, I genuinely liked ToEE and RoMD (which is universally viewed as computer D&D adaptions' own "first third of Daikatana" pretty much anywhere on the Web), so what do I know.

[Anonymous No.4787438]

>>4787332
it depends what kind of games you like, it's an adventure game, "based" on d&d, it adpats many things for different reasons which seems to trigger many faggots; there's really not much choice in whatever you do, except of the order you do things, which companions you take with you, and yeah you can just go around trying to kill everything in your path if that's your thing, stealing in stores, whatever... eventually you'll have to get to the same point as if you played the good guy though... I played this game when I was about 18 or 19 yo and it became and remains one of the games I've mostly enjoyed ever... played it many times, many different ways, sequels too.

[Anonymous No.4787447]

>>4787426
Ruins of Myth Drannor was made in like 2002 and feels like it was made in 1988. I've played worse, but it was not a very solidly constructed game. It is still more fun than both Neverwinter Nights games, though.

[Anonymous No.4787545]

>>4787447
Because enormous multi-layered catacombs, slowly desintegrating into rot and oblivion, should naturally play like a Michael Bay movie. I mean, take for example speleology or Paris/Odessa catacombs. Ain't that a load of special effects and all the fancy explosions and generally being on entertained as all hell?
RoMD is pretty much the only game in the existence, that makes you feel as if you were in an actual catacomb purely through its gamedesign, layout design and encounter design, and it, at least, deserves some respect just for that.

Also, once having been patched and barring compatibility issues, its engine is just fine. It's 60fps, it's responsive, it's smooth, and well, really, just more or less overall convenient. More so, at least from my standpoint, than any of the Infinities are, and undeniably more so, than the sprawling piece of code ToEE sports.

[Anonymous No.4787675]

Its worth playing just for the fact that there's a sequel and you can dump hundreds of hours into both games. I actually just finished bg1 and was wondering if its worth playing siege of dragonspear (not retro) or if I should just jump straight into 2 without all the gear and extra levels you get from 1.5

[Anonymous No.4787689]

>>4787372
Yes, it's good in very different ways from its sequel. It has a much better sense of exploration and the way the story is introduced through the half of the game first borders on genius for a low-level adventure.

>>4787675
Skip it and come back to check it out later if you really want more content. BG2 is a loot whore's paradise and it's not like you need a leg up to get through the early game.

[Anonymous No.4787718]

>>4787675
skip siege of dragonspear

[Anonymous No.4787780]

>>4787545
>RL catacombs suck so they must suck in a vidya game

What a curious mindset. Even if we really looking forward to exploring a huge barren low-res catacomb, the game is still pretty fucking boring even in a combat. Which, for all accounts and purposes, should be a bit more entertaining than looking at an Excel table.

[Anonymous No.4788148]

>>4787718
>>4787689
Thanks for the input. Guess ill leave SoD for another run. Im so anxious to play bg2

[Anonymous No.4789245]

>>4787780
The graphics are really flat and undetailed compared to infinity engine games, all of which are older (except maybe IWD 2).

[Anonymous No.4789390]

>>4789245
Yeah. So the game is nothing. No good combat, no good exploration, just a snorefest.

[Anonymous No.4789397]

Except Infra Arcanum is a game about delving through catacombs that is actually quite exciting

[Anonymous No.4789430]

I hated it back in the day for not being very faithful to 2nd Edition.
Then 3rd Edition came out and I hated it because 3rd is miles better.
It's so bad compared to NWN, and NWN also did a pretty bad job of representing 3rd edition rules.
Maybe people who don't play DnD can enjoy it as a video game, but as a DnD product, I think it's fucking horrid. But please play it and make your own determination, if you do like it, that's great.

[Anonymous No.4789432]

>>4789430
Isn't ToEE the most accurate to 3rd edition rules?

[Anonymous No.4789463]

>>4789432
I wouldn't know, never played it. I've played the module in both 2nd and 3rd and its reputation for bullshit high difficulty is well-earned.

[Anonymous No.4789502]

>>4787780
I value novelty. Besides, giving to a player a taste of speleology wasn't done simply because of "realism, dude!". The catacomb seems to serve as metaphor for for human memory as a whole.
That being said, you are definitely right about the combat. It could, at the very least, be faster without sacrificing the atmosphere.
Wait a second. I played it pure turn-based, but it was actually meant to be played with time-limit on decisions. That way, the simplified 3e and comparative lack of depth makes all the sense, and enemies' moving speed being realistic simply adds to the suspense. In other words, you are supposed to botch some of your commands to the characters while in-battle due to the time limit and all the haste, to make judgemental AND executional mistakes. Funny, haven't really thought about it before.
>>4789245
RoMD is tiled, while Inifnities' shtick was that it was basically "MEGASTRUCTURE: 1998 ISOMETRIC EDITION". Like "Every square inch is unique, my dude!". So, the thing about RoMD is that the maps are MOTHERFUCKING HUGE, and no Infinity game has a single location the size of picrelated (the faint red marks in the lower right corner of it are secret doors, so that should give you some idea of what the scale is). So, yeah, naturally, Infinities look better. That being said, RoMD look way better in movement due to its smoothness and responsiveness.
>>4789390
It's a concept piece, basically, a genuine work of high art. I know of no other game like it.

[Anonymous No.4789503]

>>4789502

[Anonymous No.4789508]

>>4789502
>MEGATEXTURE

>>4789503
^And that's only one of 8 major catacomb levels, even if the biggest.

Also, I honestly don't think this
<--
looks all that bad.

Somewhat low-res texture-wise (it seems like it was initially meant to be a 640x480 game), well, aliasing doesn't do it any favors as well (then again, there could be a way to force it, and, besides, it's not that apparent while moving), but at the very least, I would say, it looks simply okay.

[Anonymous No.4789542]

>>4789502
In other words, the monsters in combat are slow not only because that is realistic, but in order to give you time to think about your actions, because if you are playing it with time limit, then on your turn, there is simply no time to think, you need to act immediately.

[Anonymous No.4789596]

I played BG since it was released in 90s. Tried some mods too from The Gibberlings 3. Redpill me why I should play BG EE.

[Anonymous No.4789749]

>>4787545
I barely played the demo and I liked the graphics but it was so universally despised that I never thought there was something good about it, should I give it a chance then?

[Anonymous No.4789774]

>>4789749
At the end of the day, it's a sort of a moodpiece. You either get on its wavelength or you don't. Basically, no way to know unless you try it.

The first, outside, map is short and nothing special, the point is the catacombs, so, at least, give THEM a couple of hours to sink in, to, like, stumble upon some special encounters and stuff, well, basically to see, what's it all about, and whether the style this game is made in does anything for you.

Thief has some unique descriptions for the stuff you encounter from time to time. So does the ranger (different from thief's and at different spots - but you can multiclass, so that to make do with one character for all that, not two), without those classes you'd be missing some minor bits of content.

I also heard it could be very much of a pain to run in anything other than WinXP, but, I guess, there is virtual machine for that.

F1 brings the list of hotkeys used in the game.

Replacementdocs have the manual and the overworld map, if you need them (both are not mandatory, the game is straightforward enough in terms of its ruleset).

Don't go funny on character generation, keep your builds simple and survivable.

Combat speed controls the time limit you have in order to act when it's your turn, for a given character. Leftmost position turns it off, making the game traditionally turn-based.

Oh, yeah, and make sure you properly patch this game.

That seems to be all. Just try to judge it on its own merits, not on Infinity games' ones.

[Anonymous No.4789780]

>>4789749
Oh, yeah, and you can also handplace your characters in any formation you fancy, SAVE it, with a special on-screen button, and then they'll keep it, while moving as a group. Pretty nifty.

And there is an on-screen indicator of whether the current location is safe for resting or not.

[Anonymous No.4790285]

>>4789749
It isn't that bad, I've finished it. Most bad reviews I read at the time were criticizing the technical aspects of it. They way it could fuck up your operating system and whatnot.

[Anonymous No.4790296]

>>4787332
threadly reminder to pirate the games and don't give money to Beamdog, thanks for reading, have a nice day

[Anonymous No.4790320]

>>4787332
I thought it was garbage.

>RTwP
>cringy writing
>awful companion portraits
>awful companions, period
>Minsc is garbage, had him killed really early into the game on purpose
>fetch quests everywhere
>enjoy exploring huge empty maps

If you haven't played Fallout and Fallout 2 already, play those instead.

[Anonymous No.4790329]

>>4790320
What sort of lunatic criticizes Baldur's Gate for "cringy writing" and then recommends Fallout 2? I think we can safely ignore this post.

[Anonymous No.4790341]

>>4787332
It's a decent but not great game in my opinion. The biggest problem it has is that the gameplay method and game story are at loggerheads. Spoilers below:
You have a hero's journey personal story, where you discover that you're the offspring and eventually heir to a deceased God, which gives you all sorts of superpowers (this gets delved into at greater length in the second game, in the first, the super powers are pretty minor stuff). You have enemies, the most important being in the form of another one of these god children who wants to ascend to divinity as well, and you've got the very standard "Stop the Bad Guy Before He Does His Evil Plot and Ruins Everything".

There's nothing wrong with that, but the guys making the game decided that it should be modeled after old D&D style hexcrawls. You have about 30 in game locations you can go to, most of which will never, ever reference anything you ever do in any other region. It's a very self-contained "go here, kill the monsters, get the treasure, enjoy the adventure". Which again is fine if you like that sort of thing.

The problem is that it doesn't really mix with the above very well. The big villain's plot can and will keep on hold if you decide to spend a month wandering the forest beating up random encounters for loot and XP. Nothing about your special heritage matters until you hit the plot coupons saying it does, even though there's no real connection between the two. It doesn't focus enough on your companions to truly flesh them out (this will be fixed in the second game), but at the same time implies that adventuring with them is the game's focus, since you see so little of the plot progression for the game's villain plot.

They would have done much better if they focused on one or the other instead of trying to do both.

[Anonymous No.4790419]

A few tips, you start out pretty weak, especially if you roll a spellcaster. Early enemies can one shot you if you are not careful. Ranged weapons and kiting enemies will let you survive long enough to get to level 3 or so, when you can actually start to succeed.
If you do roll mage, crowd control spells will serve you better than direct damage at first.

[Anonymous No.4791115]

>>4790296
You can still get them cheap and physical without having to go through Beamdog bullshit.

[Anonymous No.4791138]

>>4789774
way to ruin the thread, you reddit-spacing gaylord.

[Anonymous No.4791294]

>>4789774
That's really useful, thanks.

[Anonymous No.4791385]

Siege of Dragonspear is actually rather fun is one of the better RPGs released of late.

[Anonymous No.4791437]

>>4790320
OP here. I just started playing today and am enjoying myself so far, although I'm barely even into the game. I've found myself some new friends and we're gonna go meet some guy at the inn (I think?)
>>4790320
I've played both Fallout and Fallout 2 and liked them a lot.

[Anonymous No.4791439]

>>4791437
Have fun, man. And remember, BG is a non-linear game. You have to complete certain quests (the ones it tells you about) to progress the story, but you can just explore and dick around if you want.

[Anonymous No.4791456]

>>4791437
>heya it's me imoen
>go away, child
>i'm not much younger than you are, you 60 year old dwarf!

[Anonymous No.4791475]

>>4790320
>minsc is garbage
opinion discarded.

[Anonymous No.4791487]

>>4790341
I dunno man, I feel like BG handled it pretty well. There's no true urgency to the main quest for most of the game, you're just trying to lay low and find out what Gorion's killer is doing and what his plan is. Exploring, fucking around and getting stronger is fairly well justified in BG1.

By comparison, I loved BG2 but it has totally fucked pacing on the main quest. You get overwhelmed by interesting quests in Athkatla but also constantly reminded that Imoen is getting tortured and hurry it up already. Once you sail off the game is totally linear with no way to retreat and goes to some pretty difficult location, so if you went too early you can have a pretty bad time. Meanwhile if you wait too long Imoen ends up horrendously under leveled compared to the rest of your party. Once you get back, you can finish up your quests but fucking around in the city makes even less sense narratively.

To be fair a lot of RPGs fuck this up, Morrowind is the only other one I can think of that makes sidequesting feel appropriate. But BG1 is ok.

[Anonymous No.4791742]

>>4790341
Baldur's Gate's resolves those two conflicting goals far better than most RPGs.

>You have about 30 in game locations you can go to, most of which will never, ever reference anything you ever do in any other region.
This makes the world feel more realistic and is a good fit for a low-level adventure where you play a very small part in a bigger world.

>The big villain's plot can and will keep on hold
In BG1, the big villain's plot is a slow-burn conspiracy. It's reasonable that it would take months for his plans to come to fruition. That the player technically controls the advance of time with triggering events is a conceit common to videogames because the only other reasonable alternatives is a frustrating real-time simulation, or forgoing a scripted narrative altogether.

The story in BG1 is written specifically to fit into the background of a low-level open-ended adventure. The development of special powers is only semi-connected to advancing the plot. You get powers from dreams that happen randomly when you sleep, but they go in order and are "unlocked" by advancing the plot. Again, this is the time-control conceit of the genre. JRPGs, for example, usually don't even pretend to care about this kind of thing. There's no story condition so urgent that you can't stop to grind or poke around for secrets any time you want.

> It doesn't focus enough on your companions to truly flesh them out.
This is valid criticism but doesn't relate to the other points.

>They would have done much better if they focused on one or the other instead of trying to do both.
Really could not disagree more. The combination of the two is part of what made this game special.

[Anonymous No.4791769]

>>4791487
Yeah I totally agree on BG2's pacing. Now that I've played it through and understand the intent of Chapter 2, it doesn't seem too bad, but I was very uncomfortable on my first playthrough. The pacing of individual side-quests tends to be fantastic, though, if you ignore the main story narrative.

[Anonymous No.4791776]

>>4787332
This game is what made me realize I don't like WRPGs.

[Anonymous No.4791881]

>>4789432
no, iwd2 is iirc

[Anonymous No.4791883]

>>4791881
IWD2 is literally running on an engine designed to recreate AD&D2e rules. It is one of the least accurate implementations of 3.

[Anonymous No.4791886]

>>4791883
and yet at the same time, beamdog wont remaster it because they feel the rules are too 'complicated' on their engine

really makes you think

[Anonymous No.4791908]

My recommendation is to pirate the original GOG edition and play both 1 and 2 via TUTU.

I personally don't like the first game too much. It always feels like having a total douchebag as a DM where you literally can't walk into a tavern without someone trying to kill you. Granted once you get past that part it opens up a bit, but the pacing of the game always just felt off to me. Much prefer the sequel.

I do fire it up once in a while just to fuck around. Pic related. I know it's the EE, Don't feel like downloading all the mods again when Im probably going to uninstall it in a few weeks anyways.

[Anonymous No.4791913]

>>4791487
>There's no urgency.
But by god there should be. I mean hell, you dodge assassins and bounty hunters every time you enter a plot relevant area. Simple survival instinct, if nothing else, should see you wanting to resolve the situation.

>>4791742
>This makes the world feel more realistic and is a good fit for a low-level adventure where you play a very small part in a bigger world.
Not really. Making the world feel big and having other things happening off screen is handled easily enough by having people talk about areas you never get to go to. Having a dozen wilderness areas that add nothing narratively and aren't affected one iota by what you do not half a dozen miles (or however big those areas are supposed to be) just makes it feel incoherent.

>In BG1, the big villain's plot is a slow-burn conspiracy.
Except it really isn't. War between Baldur's Gate and Amn is in the giving as you progress. The iron shortage is going on right now. bandits have actually cut communication off between two major centers of civilization. That's now slow-burn, that's anarchy.

>because the only other reasonable alternatives is a frustrating real-time simulation,
Exactly what is frustrating about it? Falling Stars, for instance, handles it amazingly well, and puts you into a frenzy trying to save everything that can be saved.
1/2

[Anonymous No.4791914]

>>4791742

>There's no story condition so urgent that you can't stop to grind or poke around for secrets any time you want.
Which is the problem; and also not true by the text of the game. You can, for instance, take a monthlong break after Sarevok is about to take over de facto leadership of the city.

>This is valid criticism but doesn't relate to the other points.
It does relate to the other points; at least in a traditional, pen and paper hexcrawl, inter-party interaction is used to humanize the game in a way that is necessary because there isn't much meaningful interaction with the rest of the world. If you want to be a hexcrawl, you do very well to have fleshed out characters. BG has that incredibly annoying middleground that they have just enough personality that they can't be total mental inserts (a la something like the Icewind Dale games), but at the same time doesn't actually make them anything beyond 2 dimensional.

[Anonymous No.4791972]

>>4789432
ToEE is 3.5 Edition.

[Anonymous No.4791973]

>>4791914
It has just enough to make it apparent that, at the end of the day, they are just random strangers you know and will ever know next to nothing about, and you just happen to just happen to have similar enough goals or similar enough intentions for the time being.
Really, it's not all that much about emulating p&p experience. Maybe rather it is, but from a heavily munchkin's, "end justifies the means"/"I'll be just minding my own business by and large", take.

[Anonymous No.4791992]

>>4791973
In other words, some player seem to get into p&p to feel the sense of comradery, to unite before the face of imaginary evil. Basically, to hang out and to feel like those around them are their actual friends they could somewhat rely upon if something happens. While munchkins are there more like to actually slay or to figure out HOW to slay, and THEN slay, the fucking evil, and everything else is more or less tangential to that main goal. And the point is that HE is smart, HE is useful, HE is insightful, HE is dedicated, HE is indispensable, etc. Basically, that is compensational behavior that stems from the inadequate self-esteem.

[Anonymous No.4791997]

>>4791992
Maybe not munchkin and rather powergamer, come to think of it.

BG1 is very heavily rooted in powergamer's worldview, and it's actually very much reflected in its story content and its story progression.

[Anonymous No.4792074]

>>4791913
>But by god there should be. I mean hell, you dodge assassins and bounty hunters every time you enter a plot relevant area. Simple survival instinct, if nothing else, should see you wanting to resolve the situation.

So after you see Gorion get cut down by a walking tank in heavy armor, your first instinct as a squishy level 1 should be to rush and confront him asap?

To be honest I think just hiding out in the wilderness might make more sense than rushing into the iron throne base. There's no concrete sense of urgency for most of the game, you know he's up to something, but you don't know what it is or how long it will take. It's a big gamble to rush into a place like Cloakwood unprepared based on ideas about what his plan *might* be.

>>4791913
>War between Baldur's Gate and Amn is in the giving as you progress
You have no idea about that for most of the game, though.

I'm not saying it's perfect, but it's clearly not trying to have a laser-focused linear narrative. It's a good excuse plot for what the game is, which is fairly open and free. Most games don't even do that, they have both an urgent main quest and a shit ton of side quests which when combined can end up being extremely dissonant

[Anonymous No.4792229]

Does anyone know how to disable auto load on baldurs gate 1 for ps1?

[Anonymous No.4793598]

>>4791913
>Except it really isn't. War between Baldur's Gate and Amn is in the giving as you progress.
Except it really is, in the way that matters. Escalation to war is the kind of thing that can happen over days, weeks, or months. Communication is handled by couriers carrying written correspondence which takes time to deliver. The precise pace of the escalation is not important to the story, so pegging it to player actions doesn't harm anything unless you really go out of your way to waste time. If you have to try hard to break the narrative, I'm not inclined to take points off.
> Exactly what is frustrating about [real-time simulation]
It's frustrating to play a computer game where you don't know the rules. You know it's a CRPG. There's concrete program logic governing the outcome of events. If there are arbitrary rules that the player can't reasonably account for or understand which have significant consequences to the gameplay experience, the result will be frustrating and feel unfair. Having an an expensive, hand-crafted storyline fail because there was a secret time limit the player had no reasonable way of knowing about is far worse than simply making the story wait for the player to trigger the right event.

Of course it doesn't always have to be frustrating, but again odds are good that you'll have to forgo parts of the narrative to make it work, which is and was a huge selling point of the Balder's Gate series
>>4791914
> You can ... take a monthlong break after Sarevok is about to take over ... the city
Sure but again how likely is it really? It's not like the game specifically encourages you to do this, despite it being technically possible.

[Anonymous No.4793637]

>>4791914
> inter-party interaction is used to humanize the game in a way that is necessary because there isn't much meaningful interaction with the rest of the world
In BG1 you get meaningful interaction with the world through the big-picture narrative and playing a major role in it, as well as for engaging in combat and exploration, which makes up most of the gameplay. Call it munchkiny if you want, but when the world isn't fully interactive in a way that allows a lot of creativity, you get a heavy focus on combat. That's the part that's engaging and fun. The personalities of the characters add flavor. Many people really love Minsc, after all, to the point of him being one of their favorite all-time RPG characters period. But in the end, people are playing the game for the story and the combat/exploration gameplay.

And criticizing Baldur's Gate for not having a fully-interactive world is simply not fair. They knew they couldn't be fully-interactive so didn't try to be. They made the combat good.