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/vr/ - Retro Games

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4772589 No.4772589[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Is FFVII the best RPG? At least of the Japanese console variant. I think it has top notch design and nails the formula.

>> No.4772608

>>4772589
Edgar? Is that you??

>> No.4772609

It's not even in the top 3 on it's on franchise.

VI is the best, followed by X and IV.

>> No.4772610

>>4772589
The graphics are good and Midgar was full of atmosphere but the game becomes more generic after that and you start finding out just how little complexity the the gameplay has. Would have been better if the entire game was just Midgar and poured it all into polish

>> No.4772612

4 stars out of 5

>> No.4772613

>>4772589
Not even the best franchise, let alone the best entry in it

>> No.4772616

>>4772609
VI is also quite good. However, not only did this game come three year later, I think it's more streamlined. The game is are longer yet more compact (VI has like "two halves") and you don't have to dance around to manage a lot of unique abilities that seem to become more useless (even though I'll admit this can be fun too). Also, there isn't magicite in VII, so everything feels more consistent and thus it's less frustrating to customize characters, though I'll admit that this is a minor point since VII has materia.

>> No.4772619

>>4772610
You may move slowly but the game is quite tense with how it's designed. Those FMVs! It's not dull at all, it feels very masterfully crafted in every segment. Otherslike X and IV are awesome but a bit less polished and memorable IMO.
I'm not concerned with any of the other stuff since it doesn't affect the game plot.

>> No.4774049

>>4772609
>X

The game where you walk in a straight line for 5 minutes to watch a 10 minute unskippable cutscene? It's not even better than VII, let alone in the top 3.

>> No.4774073

>>4772609
FFIV 's story was fucking terrible though. Probably the worst of the series barring XIII.

>> No.4774160

Pathetic >>4770321

>> No.4774197

>>4772609
IV is incredibly mediocre. Maybe not the "worst" in the series but most boring for sure. Only reason you might possibly think it's good is nostalgia goggles.

>> No.4774216

Fuck yeah

>> No.4774298

>>4774049
10 does have the best battle system of the series, though.

>> No.4774308

>>4774197
>Only reason you might possibly think it's good is nostalgia goggles.
You can potentially say the same about every game in existence, boy.

FF7 is good but I couldn't consider a turn based game with loading times and unskippable animations the best in its genre.

>> No.4774384

The best part about it is it skipped the boring medieval design of its predecessors.

>> No.4774390

>>4774384
Rendering intricate medieval castles takes some extra work.

>> No.4774413

>>4772589
It did everything great with the exception of the materia system.

I will never understand why people praise it so much. Instead of having characters that have certain skills which only they can make use of. They devolved it into everybody can do everything.

>> No.4774574

Still my favorite in the main series, though I like V a lot as well. Other then VII I've played:

>IV
Mediocre story based JRPG, easy to play but lacks gameplay depth
>V
Real fun to customize characters and revisit with self imposed limits.
>VI
I see why people like this and I bet if I'd played it before VII, is think it was the best too. I wish you could start messing with character customization a little earlier in the game, but maybe that's because I'm not invested in the world the way VII grabs me.
>IX
If anybody likes IV more than this they're crazy. They're both linear story based games but this is a better story with better characters. Don't mind the battle speed as much as others.
>X
Hated this when it was new and have not been able to bring myself to revisit. I beat it way too fast and the long walks between locations instead of a world map made the game feel to samey.

Anyway, I like Final Fantasy Tactics more than any of these games. I've been thinking of trying similar games like Tactics Ogre.

>> No.4774979

>>4772589
I'm a Xenogearsfag, but FF7 is certainly a special game for me. I still have my black-label discs (of both games). I'm replaying FF7 on New Threat now since I've mastered the main game, and it really breathes new life into it, especially after you've played it 10 times.

>> No.4775034

>>4772589
Have sex

>> No.4775064

>>4775034
With what kind of animal?

>> No.4775459

>>4775064
human, if available

>> No.4775490

>>4774216
this basically

>> No.4775517

>>4775490
>gramps' favorite JRPG of all time is FF fucking VII
lmao

>> No.4775524

>>4772609
Tactics is the best actually

>> No.4775536

FF7 is certainly the peak of the genre. I'm not sure I'd say its the best, but it definitely is a prime example of how much fun these sorts of games used to be.

>> No.4775537
File: 427 KB, 470x408, 1526025607304.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4775537

>>4774413
No, no they didnt. Certain characters are geared toward a certain "class". Dont make barret the magic guy, but he could have a few like fire and cure. You need to not be such a retard about everything in your life.

>> No.4775538

Not even the best in the Series. VIII > Tactics > IX > X > VII >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> X-2

>> No.4775546

>>4775517
Oh yeah, without a doubt. There are other more hip RPGs that I like too and that might even be arguably "better" than FF7 but FF7 can be picked right up, it's engrossing it's everything >>4775536 says and it's easily my personal favorite JRPG. If I'm trying to earn contrarian cred I can criticize it on a number of points, both reasonable and unreasonable but anybody who's so far up their own ass to truly believe the game is anything short of great is some kind of idiot.

Now if the remaster just added FF5"s job system that keyed branching story arcs where we could investigate all the fan favorite what-ifs, I'd think I had died and gone to heaven.

>> No.4775549

>>4774073
Is it possible for you to give a spoiler-free explanation why? I just started playing it

>> No.4776180

>>4772589
i get spoiled too much by V's job system to enjoy the others for gameplay. sure some of the games in the franchise rely on story to make it engaging but let's be honest here. it's a classic jrpg with random encounters and you'd spend A LOT of time having to do monotonous work and grinding before you get plot exposition. the least you could do is have fun by breaking the system with it

>> No.4776198

>>4772589
That isnt Dual Orb 2...

>> No.4776327
File: 13 KB, 250x272, stopped reading there.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4776327

>>4775538
>VIII > Tactics

>> No.4776374

>>4772589
decent game if you’re a casual / storyfag. for the true jrpg experience, only dragon quest 1 through 4 is acceptable, any thing else is a pale imitation

>> No.4776383

>>4772589
>is the worst final fantasy game the best rpg?

>> No.4776407

>>4776383
lol dude epic!! ff7 is for losers...SEPHIROTH IS A MOMMAS BOY!!! lol...true gamers know ff6 is the most epic ff -.- kefka is basically me haha.

I HEARD U LIEK MUDKIPZ!!!

^ nvm just me being random lol...

>> No.4776418

>>4776407
I really wonder sometimes about the people that post things like this.

>> No.4776537

>>4772610
I was about to say that

>> No.4776763

Wouldn't say best, but definitely the one that I can bring myself to play again on the FF series

>> No.4776778

>>4772609
>X and IV
Worst taste I've see .

>> No.4776779

>>4774298
And absolutely awful mobs that don't take advantage of it. What good is a Grandia-esque system if my solution to every random battle is "swap to character X to one shot enemy Y"?

>> No.4776935

>>4772589
I don't think so, FF has always been a mediocre series and VII is no exception, but I'm what people call a contrarian in this place because of this opinion so take that as you will.

>> No.4776953

>>4776935
I'm OP and I made this after getting frustrated with my previous thread >>4770321
Lo and behold, over 30 unique posters, activity... and they took it seriously. This fucking place.
I dislike FFVII.
What I don't get is that people always complain that /vr/ is getting stale or whatever, but in reality they want to talk about the same shit over and over.

>> No.4776961

>>4776953
You double agent.

>> No.4776962

>>4776779
Try an ability-spheres-only run.

>>4776953
Let us talk about 6th gen and problems will solve on the spot. It's been four years, FOUR FUCKING YEARS, since the sticky was changed. FOUR YEARS.

>> No.4776979

>>4776962
What about talking about other than the same 10 fucking games
The fact that you just talk about the most modern in style of the allowed games and want to talk about newer games just speaks for itself.

>> No.4777003

>>4776953
So fucking true. Same shit, over and over. Ever play DUAL ORB 2?

>> No.4777009

>>4777003
Nah, haven't touched a game of that genre in years and don't plan to, but appreciated.

>> No.4777060

>>4775549
It's story is great for a JRPG, if you accept that it's a cartoony story for adolescents. It's far more focused and concise than anything that came after it. The first part is character-driven and excellent, and the climax is also great. While there's a variety of side characters who get plenty of attention, it's not like later games where each one has an elaborate story and a quest and all that bullshit. Character backstories and personalities are explored as part of the main plot, not semi-optional side quests.

There are some scenes where it veers into melodrama, but it has never bothered me due to the cartoony nature. The characters and themes are solid. The plot is at least a B+.

>> No.4777068

>>4772589
Best RPG? No.
Best Final Fantasy? No.
Best anything? At being overrated yes.

>> No.4777083

>>4777068
You guys keep missing the point.
Stop giving the same shit attention, even if you dislike it, and make threads you like, or respond to threads about stuff you like.
Shit gets old. Pissing off the circlejerk of fanboys can be fun once or twice, I understand, but c'mon, move on.

>> No.4777583

>>4772610
Truth here.
Most of the nostalgia comes from the excellent start in Midgar. After that, the teleports-behind-you katana-unsheathing villain is the best part.

>> No.4777808

>>4777060
>It's story is great for a JRPG
>if you accept that it's a cartoony story for adolescents
But it's a JRPG, what else do you expect? ;)

>> No.4777826

>>4772589

9.5 / 10

perfect length and amount of sidequests
no annoying grinding needed
good story
great ost

>> No.4777921

>>4777808
Yeah I've never played a JRPG with a good story honestly. Good for the genre is good enough for me.

>> No.4777939

>>4777826
>no annoying grinding needed
I'll add onto that Anon.
The difficulty is constant without grinding, but boss battles are still beatable within a few levels or by optimizing materia.
FFX ruined this shit, not a single point in the game were the bosses difficult in the storyline. It was literal point a-b and I never once had to optimize.

FFVII was perfect, the scorpion boss in cloud's home town, the weapons,
So many points that if you didn't grind just a little bit the fights could actually be pretty intense. Which actually made grinding fun, playing it as a child it was like damn that boss was tough. Maybe I need to be a little bit stronger or get that next spell level.
When you get to the three part boss battle at the end it was fun as shit with no grind and actually felt like you were accomplishing something.
Jenova was a little underwhelming, but bizarro sephiroth was intense as hell.

>> No.4778158

>>4777921
Digital Devil Saga, Shadow Hearts I and II, Radiant Historia and FFX are "up there", but even they all fall into the usual JRPGs pitfall tropes at some point. Good for the genre is about as good as it gets.

>>4777939
>FFX ruined this shit, not a single point in the game were the bosses difficult in the storyline.
FFX is actually one of the few FFs where I had a hard time fighting some of the storyline bosses. Granted, it could just be that I didn't know what the fuck I was doing with the sphere grid, but I haven't replayed it a second time to know if it was just that or not.

>> No.4778209

>>4778158
How old are you by chance?
When I got to X the only boss that I had issue with is the common issue point for most people with Seymour on the mountainside.
It was a very obvious jumping point in difficulty compared to the rest of the bosses.
I still don't remember having that much issue with it.
While it might have just been I was 2-3 years younger when 7 came out. I've played it a lot and it still feels the same way. It's a good constant difficulty throughout the game.
It's especially noticeable when leaving Midgar. You have a good section of grinding until the next set of bosses. Once you get there you feel really overpowered and tend to stop grinding for a good quarter (maybe even third) of the game. When you get to the next couple of bosses which start setting up around Cosmo Canyon. That shit gets rough fast and kind of rides that way for a long while. I only remember grinding at two points.

Diamond Weapon is incredibly rough as is Ultimate Weapon without grinding, but both can still be beaten doing a minimalist run with proper optimization.
It's fun as hell m8.
This is somewhere between level 35-50.
If you go above 50 it really does become so cheese it's silly, but i've done it a few times around 55-57 and it's obvious 7 was not a game you were suppose to grind.

>> No.4778271

>>4777939
>>4778209
FF7's difficulty is cut in half once you realize that (1) it's better to just Barrier yourself and not Haste because it ends up just running down your barriers faster (2) even the tougher bosses have some status weaknesses.

Anything that's not a robot, Weapon, or Hojo in the first two discs gets spanked by poison, it's absolutely devastating, just free damage. Demon's Gate can even be poisoned too through Added Effect which is incredibly helpful. Most things that can be poisoned can also be paralyzed or stopped using Seal Evil/Cross-Slash/Choco-Mog (or the Stop spell obviously but if you have a level 3 Time materia you're probably kind of powerful enough anyway). The Weapons can even be slowed.

>> No.4778319

>>4776962
>Try an ability-spheres-only run.
If you have to kick yourself in the junk to extract any challenge from the game it is not a well designed game. Rather than wasting time playing the game wrong on purpose, one could just play a better game with non-shit enemy encounters.

>> No.4778337

>>4778271
Or you can just use the enemy skill materia

>> No.4778345

>>4778319
another thing that annoys the shit out of me is "this game is great [with 5 different mods]"

>> No.4778505

>>4772610
This. It's like anime/manga that starts off good and then takes a rapid nose dive afterwards.

>> No.4778562

>>4776953
I remember when /vr/ first started there was actual varied discussion and the only time it really got uncivil was discussing the Dreamcast before it eventually got added to the sticky.
I don't know who's to blame for the board's decline, but it's clear that it's not the same people who were posting in those comfy threads years ago.

>> No.4778589

45 unique posters for a joke thread taken seriously because of muh FFVII
Fuck

>> No.4778595

>>4772589
It's a piece of shit. FF peaked with 6 and everything after that has been shit.

>> No.4779108

>>4778589
Sorry your “Epic Win Trolling” was not a success

>> No.4779196

>>4772610
It's pretty sad, really. Midgar had one of the best atmospheres ever made
I'd play a whole FF based on Midgar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-FdsYXXDrc

>> No.4779203

>>4779196
Wasn't it going to be like that and then they essentially went like "nah fuck that it's a terrible idea"

>> No.4779253

>>4774298
You mean the one where each zone you fight reskinned versions of the monsters that you fought in previous zones and are forced to pull out Auron or Kimahri for armor pierce, Wakka or Lulu for flyers and the rest for standard mobs??? jej progressing through this game was unbelievably boring

>> No.4779254
File: 5 KB, 88x131, 1524278826727.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4779254

>>4778595
I could never get into ff6 especially the clunky overworld controls, but i love its music. Ff7 is just more intruiging in every aspect. The art is better, the story is more accessible to larger audiences (maybe not better, but it was recieved better). The music kicks it up to 11, but is still very similar to 6. The battles are way better to sit through, until you get knights of the round, The side quests are amazingly fun and thought out, the story is actually quite good and has good lore, but its just such a popular game even the most hidden secrets are common knowledge now.

If ff7 wasnt as big of a success as it was, you fuckin hypocrits would be praising it as the best jrpg ever made. You people (black people?) Can sit and tell me about how good all the shitty games are and then shit on popular games that are good, just for being popular. This aint fnaf or angry birds you dumb shits.

>> No.4779262

>>4779254
>If ff7 wasnt as big of a success as it was, you fuckin hypocrits would be praising it as the best jrpg ever made.
Yup pretty much. The contrarians are too real around here.

>> No.4779268

>>4772610
FF7 has a good bit of parallels to Chrono Trigge. With Jenova and Lavos's concepts and then the games themselves having the opposite problems of CT's best parts being late in the game (Zeal) while FF7's best parts are early in the game (Midgar). Aeris' death vs Schala's. Then there's Midgar and Zeal both involving a class struggle and being a hybrid of utopia/dystopia depending on your class.

>> No.4779271

>>4779254
What gets me is that at the end of the day VII is mostly just an improved version of VI. VI looks better in battles with its amazing spritework, but that's about it. Materia is vastly superior to Espers, the setting and overworld visuals are more interesting than generic fantasy towns with some steampunk thrown in, the cast is less bloated and there are no FUCKING SPLIT PARTY SEGMENTS.

I say this as someone who beat VI over a decade ago but has only gotten to play through VII a couple years ago. VII is not the best in the series (that's V for gameplay and IX for presentation) but there's a reason it's so successful.

>> No.4779354

>>4779271
I love V, but I couldn't get into VI after trying it hundreds of times. I would force myself to enjoy that shit but I couldn't. VII just got things right overall, specially I would say the atmosphere. It's weird in its own way. FFVI is fairly generic considering other RPGs in the system, while VII stands out on the PS1 despite it also being a platform with dozens of JRPGs.

>> No.4779383

>>4779354
I dropped FFVI multiple times because of the horrid split party segments that triggered my OCD something severe. The worst possible sin a party based RPG can commit. Ignoring that it's a decent and very pretty game, but V did gameplay far better while the PSX games had better narratives. It's perhaps the second prettiest FF after IX with the highest sound production values, I'll give it that at least.

>> No.4779403

>>4779271
>Materia is vastly superior to Espers
Materia is not comparable to Espers, they're fundamentally different build systems. Materia is more comparable to FF5's job system, except it's much worse at it.

FF7 replaces the fun of FF5-style character builds with tedium of equipping every individual ability you want on a party of permanently blank slate characters. I'd often forget which character had some specific command like scan or steal because it really didn't fucking matter anyway.

Materia does modify stats appropriately (eg a character with all magic materia will have higher magic power). But because it's so granular, it winds up not mattering so much. Most builds are just a bland mix of command, magic, and support. In FF5, if you wanted steal, you had to either set the primary class of a character to thief, or add it as a secondary ability (and those slots were very limited). In FF7, you just need steal materia, one spare slot, and the stats of that character will be slightly (temporarily) modified.

The materia system is extremely over-rated.

>> No.4779410

>>4779403
I wouldn't say the materia system per se is bad, but the aspect of characters being blank slates. I used to complain about this too. Then again there's the New Threat mod which makes the choice of characters have a little bit more impact at least.

>> No.4779437

>>4779410
not that guy, but is there a version of that mod that doesn't change the story?

>> No.4779445

>>4779410
>I wouldn't say the materia system per se is bad, but the aspect of characters being blank slates
I wouldn't say it's a bad thing, since it all depends on what you want out of your game. The materia system can be seen as the standard job system broken up into mix-and-match modules, so I don't see how FF7 does a worst job of having blank state characters compared to III or V. The only game that does the worst job of that is XII since it just naturally happens over the course of the game and is unavoidable whereas you can easily give each character their own niche in VII. Even in V, you can give characters their own collection of jobs to specialize in, which is how I like to play V (I'd say III too, but that had too many bullshit moments where they forced you to pick certain jobs).

And it's a sad thing about the Esper system since it can be improved tremendously with an affinity system that works based on the characters' job/title (make someone like Cyan can't equip Shiva). It's weird because there are job titles in FFVI, but they're little more than flavor text that imply that maybe affinity based on class was maybe supposed to be a thing.

>> No.4779454

>>4779445
Every character should have started with a unique soul materia only they could equip that synergized differently with different builds but oh well nothing's perfect

>> No.4779458

>>4772589
>4772589
I can't be the best in the genre when its not even the best in its own series.

>> No.4779475

>>4779410
Well, it's not just the blank slates, but also the degree of arbitrary and unsatisfying micromanagement involved in selecting individual materia for each character.

>> No.4779479

>>4779475
You should definitely not play FF12

>> No.4779484

wtf is wrong with you guys
>>4779108
Are you that desperate to discuss about this game AGAIN

>> No.4779485

>there are people browsing this complaining about freedom in gameplay

>> No.4779490

>>4779484
hello newfriend, if you make a thread about a game on /vr/ it tends to get discussed, especially if it was a popular game that sold over 10 million units worldwide
sorry your obscure shootemup isn't getting the attention you feel it deserves, but making a thread about a popular game to prove a point is not going to help

>> No.4779506

>>4779484
ITT are a small handful of people interested in discussing a game that millions have played on a board about discussing games and one sputtering attention whore miffed that nobody cares about his lame joke.

>> No.4779513

>>4779490
Obscure? lol
No, more like if a thread isn't about the same bunch of super popular shit it gets absolutely ignored.
And newfriend my ass, I'm mad because this trend is getting worse over time. I think due to the userbase getting younger and having only played the most popular older games and that's it.
And there's no alternative place for this stuff as far a I'm concerned.

>> No.4779526

>>4779403
Materia and Espers are comparable insofar they're the primary build systems of their respective games, and Materia despite all of its flaws does allow for far more flexibility than Espers. And let's be honest here, nothing beats FFV's jobs

>>4779410
There's nothing wrong with characters being (gameplay) blank slates. I'd pick blank slates over 100% delineated characters like in IV and IX anyday. VII tries to reconcile the two approaches by having characters be mostly blank slates but with unique weapons and limit breaks to give them some flair, and I think it works well. More freedom isn't bad.