/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.4753087]

What is the most "dark souls" of retro games?

[Anonymous No.4753091]

Uh, I guess it's gotta be Ocarina of Time technically speaking.
If you mean in terms of lore and atmosphere, then it's obviously King's Field.

[Anonymous No.4753092]

the immortal

[Anonymous No.4753094]

>>4753091
OoT is not very DS like. You're right on King's Field though.

[Anonymous No.4753097]

>>4753087
Pic related

[Anonymous No.4753098]

>>4753091
I implied the gameplay where you have to play again and again the same level until you git gut.

[Anonymous No.4753101]

>>4753098
>I implied the gameplay where you have to play again and again the same level until you git gut.
any of about a thousand or so action games

[Anonymous No.4753105]

>>4753098
literally every game

[Anonymous No.4753107]

>>4753094
The third person combat used in Souls is straight out of OoT. the rolling, the automatic jump, the Z target, etc.
Of course Souls is a lot more refined and hase more mechanics (and more RPG elements), but the core mechanics go back to OoT.
>>4753098
That sounds like most retro games, especially pre-16 bit where save batteries weren't common and games were made with an arcade mindset.

[Anonymous No.4753108]

>>4753087
Adventure of Link
Battle of Olympus
Faxanadu

[Anonymous No.4753109]

>>4753087
None. Dark Souls itself is like an amalgamation of many of the best classic retro games, in a full 3D modern game engine with top-notch content design. It has the original Zelda's approach to adventure and exploration, as well as NPCs. NPCs in Dark souls are sparse, isolated, and give cryptic hints with minimal dialog. Its combat is a lot like Mike Tyson's Punch-Out in terms of pacing and the dodge/block/punish dynamics. But it uses a deep, weapons-based moveset system like Bushido Blade.

I'm not sure about aesthetic, since I was never a fan of that style until Demon/Dark Souls.

[Anonymous No.4753110]

>>4753101
>>4753105
>>4753107
Okay, maybe I was too vague, there are also levels that designed to fuck you over so you have to lose time and with every mistake make you closer to the total failure.

[Anonymous No.4753112]

what retro game is exactly as difficult as dark souls

neither more difficult nor less

[Anonymous No.4753116]

>>4753109
And yes, Ocarina's targeting sword/shield/etc. But the pace and dynamics of combat are a lot more like Punch-Out + Bushido Blade. Ocarina's combat is faster paced and lacks the stamina dynamic.

[Anonymous No.4753117]

>>4753112
SMB1.

[Anonymous No.4753119]

>>4753110
ecco the dolphin?

[Anonymous No.4753120]

>Immortal main character
>High difficulty
>Various weapons/spells to play with
>Spammable dodge roll
>Shitty, unfinished second half

[Anonymous No.4753135]

[Anonymous No.4753154]

>>4753120
The drop in quality for Dark Souls second half is vastly overstated. Demon Ruins clearly suffered for it but the rest of the zones are solid.

[Anonymous No.4753157]

not retro (2001), but still

[Anonymous No.4753159]

Castlevania on NES. Long animations that require commitment and punishing difficulty.

[Anonymous No.4753165]

>>4753120
>>Shitty, unfinished second half
delet this

[Anonymous No.4753172]

>>4753092

very good choice. The Immortal is stupidly hard and unfair, but was pretty groundbraking for its time

[Anonymous No.4753180]

>>4753097

the immortal! i had the 2GS version but never beat it, never got past the part where your on the flying carpet

[Anonymous No.4753184]

>>4753109
Did you pull all of this out your arse?

>It has the original Zelda's approach to adventure and exploration

Not even remotely close, did you play any of the souls games? Zelda has one overwolrd in each game littered with about 7 dungeons that all play out by solving puzzles, finding the item you need to solve them then finding a boss room key. Thats every zelda game.

Dark Souls would be more like metroid, moving through areas, killing bosses, opening up new areas and finding shortcuts and backtracking to unlock new areas.

And fromsoft have straight up said OoT was the inspiration for the combat systems.

[Anonymous No.4753197]

>>4753120
My brother got that game one year for Christmas, god I hated that thing

[Anonymous No.4753203]

>>4753159
You're the only person in this thread who isn't a retard. Thank you.

[Anonymous No.4753208]

>>4753159
>>4753203
Castlevania is a platformer first and foremost, Souls doesn't even have a jump button.

[Anonymous No.4753226]

>>4753184
>Did you pull all of this out your arse?
Of course not. And yes, obviously Dark Souls doesn't have precisely the same overworld+dungeon dynamic. Instead it just has interconnected levels. I never played Metroid and yeah it might be a better fit. I was thinking more about the way the original Zelda gates/doesn't gate content, allowing access to end-game zones (like Level-8 or New Londo Ruins) very early on if you know what you're doing. At any given point in Dark Souls and Legend of Zelda, you probably have several alternative levels you could attempt and be rewarded for.

>And fromsoft have straight up said OoT was the inspiration for the combat systems.
Sure whatever, obviously the 3D sword+board is based on OoT. But the way you actually play works a lot more like those two games I mentioned (Punch Out and Bushido Blade). When you play Punch Out, you can block (cost stamina) or dodge (harder to time). After you evade, you have a window to take free hits. If you get too greedy, you'll be punished. Dodging tends to give you better counter windows than blocking. Ocarina doesn't have Dark Souls complex weapon system and moveset-based attacks. Bushido Blade does.

[Anonymous No.4753231]

>>4753087

Daikatana.

[Anonymous No.4753239]

>>4753226
dark souls is a direct descendant of 3D ninja gaiden but everyone is deeply in denial about this for some reason

[babbage's gramps !RATGzMALLY No.4753254]

>this thread
The definitive answer is Shadow Tower and to a somewhat lesser extent King's Field

[Anonymous No.4753285]

>>4753087
That is literally how games are designed..

[Anonymous No.4753318]

>>4753254
Only in lore and atmosphere, and somewhat the weapon/upgrade system, not in core gameplay.

[Anonymous No.4753389]

CV III

Branching pathways, different characters serving as different builds, dat a e s t h e t i c, bastard difficulty, alternate playthroughs yielding different ways to play.

[babbage's gramps !RATGzMALLY No.4753402]

>>4753318
Because they're first person and the physics are more primitive? Shadow Tower: Abyss even introduces the souls-as-money/xp trope. While I think the emerging third person ARPG genre (notably Severance: Blade of Darkness) influenced the Souls games I challenge you to name a retro game that is more similar than Shadow Tower.

[Anonymous No.4753407]

>>4753087

[Anonymous No.4753414]

>>4753402
As already stated, OOT was the one that influenced the core gameplay of Souls.
Severance is from 2001.
Yeah, King's Field and Shadow Tower are basically proto-Souls, but mostly in terms of aesthetics, lore and the RPG element, not gameplay.
It's not just that the physics are "more primitive", it's just a totally different kind of game.

[Anonymous No.4753463]

>>4753120
I knew this looked familiar

[Anonymous No.4753471]

>>4753407
Unironically this

[Anonymous No.4753615]

>>4753254
>filtered
Shadow tower is cool but the hardest part is that it is slooow.

[Anonymous No.4753625]

>>4753389
This.
What's with Trevor's face btw?

[Anonymous No.4753647]

>>4753414
It really didn't anything more than basic controls. Hardly the main influence. In terms of the kind of game they're not very similar.

[Anonymous No.4753652]

>>4753625

He was always the most retarded Belmont

[Anonymous No.4753654]

>>4753087
fuckin what are you even asking man? None I guess
I mean if you mean "dark souls" in the sense of "hard & good" like most of em. That's why there's a whole board for them

[Anonymous No.4753658]

>>4753254
This is the correct answer.

[Anonymous No.4753664]

>>4753647
What you call "basic controls" are the core, the spine of the game.
OP asked what's "the dark souls of retro" and that would be OOT; it's the one that's more similar in terms of core gameplay.
If we get into details like atmosphere and just "it's hard", then it can be whatever. There's countless of dark fantasy games, especially wRPGs. And of course the most logical answer would be King's Field. But KF plays nothing like Souls as in actual gameplay, it's like comparing Doom to Wizardry.

[Anonymous No.4753714]

>>4753664
Don't fight over it, my OP question was pretty retarded, I just remembered today about the original prince of Persia game which I played on uncle's DOS pc back then and how hard it was, so dark souls was used as a meme phrase rather than actual game title.
Then I realized there was entire decade of similar games before it.

[Anonymous No.4753761]

>>4753714
if you just want hard games then >>4745846 is a good thread for suggestions

[Anonymous No.4753818]

>>4753664
>What you call "basic controls" are the core, the spine of the game.

They really aren't.

[babbage's gramps !RATGzMALLY No.4754117]

>>4753664
What if I told you that Armored Core used the 3D lock-on mechanic a whole year before OOT? Also to a two-hander like me or a spell caster OOT combat doesn't feel any more like DS than Daggerfall does.

[Anonymous No.4754129]

>>4754117
OMG Dark Souls is an Armored Core clone then!!!!11

[Anonymous No.4754148]

>>4753818
Okay, so leveling up random numbers are the actual core gameplay mechanic?
>>4754117
What if I told you that lock-on != Z-target? Mega Man Legends and Tomb Raider also have lock-on, yadda yadda, we know that already. The targeting system used in Souls and the way you can move around enemies while targeting them, and the way you can switch targets on the fly come from OOT.
It's not just the targeting system anyway, that's just one of the aspects, and Miyazaki himself said that obviously they were inspired by OOT and called OOT a "texbook for 3D game development".
Out of all retro games, the one that is closer to Souls in terms of gameplay is OOT, like it or not.
In terms of atmosphere, or just "it's hard!", there's countless examples, but they're pretty vague and subjective. KF is the closest answer because Demon's Souls is a spiritual sequel to KF, but gameplay is totally different.

[Anonymous No.4754441]

>>4753098
Battletoads
I know it's the meme response but it's actually true and you asked a meme question

[Anonymous No.4754443]

>>4753208
Anyone else think Souls would have been more fun with some platforming?

[Anonymous No.4754454]

>>4754148
>Okay, so leveling up random numbers are the actual core gameplay mechanic?

Not the core, but deffinitely an important aspect of it. It's among the myriad of reasons DS is almost nothing like OoT.

[Anonymous No.4754543]

>>4754454
Right, not the core.
The core is the 3rd person combat action, which spine is based on the game that set the standard for 3rd person sword/shield combat, OoT, confirmed by Miyazaki himself.
How dense are you? If we're gonna talk about the RPG mechanics, then a fucking lot of games have those, even a Zelda game like Zelda II. Which yes, I know some people claim Zelda II is "the souls of retro games", but Zelda II is still a side-scroller action platformer, and Souls is still a 3D action game.

[Anonymous No.4754563]

>>4754543
You can repeat your point as often as you like but I disagree just as strongly. It's control scheme is hardly the whole backbone of the game and outside of that one aspect it's very different. In no way at all is OoT the "Dark Souls" of retro games, as stupid as the whole notion is.

[Anonymous No.4754571]

I can't even beat the first fucking boss of this game.

[Anonymous No.4754579]

>>4754563
>as stupid as the whole notion is.
That's mainly it though, the whole "dark souls of ____" is a meme.
I don't think OOT is the dark souls of retro games, but it's the most similar in terms of gameplay, like it or not, while King's Field has the RPG mechanics and lore.

[Anonymous No.4754593]

>>4754579
Well I disagree, but at least we do agree the whole notion is stupid. And I dislike both games quite a bit, so I'll give you that they have that in common too.

[Anonymous No.4754702]

>>4754443
That'd be pretty neat. I'd love to see them combine the Frame Gride setting with a Souls game with platforming elements.

[Anonymous No.4754712]

>>4753239
I see the connection you're making, but I feel it's a bit tenuous. Ninja Gaiden rewards speed, whereas Dark Souls offers almost no tangible reward for it.

[Anonymous No.4754772]

Stop using the god damn "dark souls" phrase. Its really getting on my nerves. If a game is difficult, just say it, stop referencing the same shitty game over and over again

[Anonymous No.4755453]

>>4754772
There are plenty of games much more difficult and nothing like Dark Souls. Also I don't think anyone cares that it's getting on your nerves.

[Anonymous No.4755592]

>>4753107
Souls games don't have automatic jump. I wish they did though.

[Anonymous No.4755608]

>>4754443
NOOOOO
I mean, how they currently did it, that sounds fucking awful. If they fixed their jumping mechanic and physics, then maybe it'd be fun.

[Anonymous No.4755658]

There is no previous equivalent. That is why the games are so good, they are fresh.

[Anonymous No.4755675]

Solstice

[Anonymous No.4755847]

>>4753087
Probably King's Field, it is even made by From Software

[Anonymous No.4756306]

>>4754543
>>4754454
To me the key debate about the difference between Dark Souls and Ocarina is the content/level design. Set aside the differences in leveling and the huge range of weapon movesets in DS versus the Zelda hook shots and throwing bombs and such. The main difference is the encounter rate.

In Dark Souls, virtually every area is packed full of dangerous enemies. In Ocarina enemies are more breaks that come up every so often in between solving puzzles, puttering around in 3D environments looking for secrets, and NPC dialog.

[Anonymous No.4756315]

>>4753389
What the fuck is Super Castlevania III

[Anonymous No.4756329]

>>4753625

[Anonymous No.4756357]

King's Field and Shadow Tower games, which are arguably even harder than Souls. They're both spiritual predecessors, and Souls has many references to KF and ST lore. There were a couple for PS2 not long before Souls came about.

Vagrant Story if you prefer third-person RPGs.

Going further back: Zelda II, Battle of Olympus, Faxanadu, Ghosts 'n Goblins, Gargoyle's Quest, Wizards & Warriors and ActRaiser 2 are all contenders for the third and fourth generations.

[Anonymous No.4756720]

My guess is Castlevania 64. I don't remember if it had any leveling but it's a 3d game that is just full of horrible difficult bullshit and deadly enemies, and the aesthetic as I can remember it is eerie and surreal. But it;s been a long time since I've played it.

[Anonymous No.4756804]

Nobody in this thread has actually played PoP?

I never thought of it but it actually resembles DS in a lot of ways, not just in the sense of being hard. And no, not a lot of retro games have the same vibe

[Anonymous No.4756805]

>>4756804
I played PoP 1 and 2 back in the old days of DOS.
It's nothing like Souls dude, what the fuck.

[Anonymous No.4756809]

>>4756805
-Combat has similar flow, lunge, dodge, only a few hits kill
-Chug potions for health
-Environments are dark and made of stone
-Tight level design with no filler

But most importantly it's just the feel. It just "feels" very similar to me in a way that is hard to articulate

[babbage's gramps !RATGzMALLY No.4756823]

>>4756809
They both do have pretty realistic physics

[babbage's gramps !RATGzMALLY No.4756828]

>>4756809
They do both have pretty realistic physics.

[Anonymous No.4756837]

>>4756828
Yeah thought about that after making the post. One thing that stuck at me from DS1 (the only one I played in the series) was the heavy gait of the player character. It reminds meof how I felt playing PoP as a kid and how all the movements in that game felt more physical and realistic than other games because of the rotoscoped animation.

[Anonymous No.4757472]

>>4753087
If you're talking about hardest game ever? Probably Takeshi's Challenge. Try beating it without a guide, I dare you.

[Anonymous No.4757474]

>>4756809
>-Combat has similar flow, lunge, dodge, only a few hits kill
What the fuck.
PoP is first and foremost a platformer, something Souls is not. So from the get go, no, you're wrong.
PoP doesn't even have bosses (one of the central aspects of Souls), unless you count the SNES version.
A fucking thousand of video games use potions for health, what the fuck.
>dark and made of stone
Yeah, unique feature there.
>TIght level design with no filler
what does this even mean. PoP's level design is focused on platforming, Souls is focused on combat. You could have said both have traps, but lots of games have traps too.

[Anonymous No.4757483]

>>4754571
lrn2dash/teleport

[Anonymous No.4757490]

I've been considering Secret of Mana to be "Dark Souls of the SNES" due to being an action rpg able to freely go back and forth on a connected world that slams you relentlessly for going to the wrong area too soon. Probably didn't help that my co-op partner was a sperglord who also complained that I wouldn't use save states when we died. The game gave me trouble and people might call me a casual but I loved the punishment much like i loved punishment in Souls.

[Anonymous No.4757520]

>>4756805
the one thing about DaS which resembles PoP is Sen's Fortress

[Anonymous No.4757609]

>>4757490
>Probably didn't help that my co-op partner was a sperglord who also complained that I wouldn't use save states when we died.

Almost got me

[Anonymous No.4757680]

You guys all have it wrong. Spelunker is obviously the Dark Souls of retro games.

[Anonymous No.4757837]

>>4753087
Ghouls and ghosts is the only correct answer. I was proud just to beat the first level

[Anonymous No.4757880]

My vote goes to Tobal 2's quest mode.

[Anonymous No.4757913]

>>4753159
Plus the dark medieval fantasy atmosphere.

Castlevania's actually fun though.

[Anonymous No.4757939]

>>4753208
>Souls doesn't even have a jump button.
Unless you're counting the fact you have to run THEN jump, even then you're just being silly anon.

[Anonymous No.4758020]

>90 replies
>no one mentions Rygar

/vr/ am disappoint

[Anonymous No.4758293]

>>4756805
>It's nothing like Souls dude, what the fuck.
Everybody says that about every game every time somebody asks this meme question.

I enjoy participating even tho I never played a Dank Souls game :)

[Dillweed No.4758324]

>>4758020
Or maybe you need skill.

[Anonymous No.4758640]

>>4753098
> where you have to play again and again the same level until you git gut.
That's like.... almost every retro action game that isn't a scotformer.

[Anonymous No.4758807]

>>4758324
You are right rygar takes skill

[Anonymous No.4758879]

who cares about dark souls its just shitty overrated pretentious lore with no bgm. Difficulty that is quite simple seeing that options you get. And even the combat is just a roll and backstab fest that uses that facade of a stamina bar to seem deeper than is

[Anonymous No.4759094]

>>4753184
Um...you do know that Zelda and Metroid are virtually the same game formulas just executed from different perspectives, right?

[Anonymous No.4759181]

contra hardcop genesis

[Anonymous No.4759213]

>>4757837
This

Fucking insane difficulty for a scotformer.

[Anonymous No.4759239]

>>4759181

this game is hard even if you use the rewind cheat in emu