How bad of a translator was Ted Woolsey?

[Anonymous No.4744549]

[Anonymous No.4744556]

Todd Woosley was a terrible translator.
His stinky translations ruined many grate games and the only reason fans lick him is because they growed up on those games. To be blunt he is a piece of shot and his translations are trash can.

[Anonymous No.4744590]

>>4744549
There are definite issues with his scripts, but given the circumstances he had to deal with, he did a pretty darn decent job.

[Anonymous No.4744601]

>>4744549
Considering he only had like a month to do them the'yre suropriginsly goosh.

[Anonymous No.4744609]

>>4744556
> Todd Woosley was a terrible translator.
> ruined many grate games
> GRATE
I think you'd probably be the last person on earth judging other's translations when you can't even fucking spell. how would you know what is good or not? huh?

[Anonymous No.4744615]

>>4744609
Anon doesn't make a living off of her grammatical prowess so it's okay for her to make mistakes once in awhile Todd.

[Anonymous No.4744639]

>>4744590
Exactly how bad were his conditions?

[Anonymous No.4744727]

>>4744609
>the joke
>you

[Anonymous No.4744758]

He did a serviceable job as a translator. You can quibble about things like "son of a submariner" but for the most part he did just fine. His scripts could have been a hell of a lot worse. The only major issues are his treatment of Frog in Chrono Trigger and Secret of Mana's script.

[Anonymous No.4744880]

>>4744609
u 8 the b8 m8

[Anonymous No.4744946]

>>4744615
>her

[Anonymous No.4744950]

>>4744639
He had a pretty limited amount of time to translate an entire RPG while also dealing with character limits for proper names and such.

[Anonymous No.4744956]

OP here, I forgot the rest of my post.

Gomenasai, my name is Ken-Sama.

I’m a 27 year old American Otaku (Anime fan for you gaijins). I draw Anime and Manga on my tablet, and spend my days perfecting my art and playing superior Japanese games. (Disgaea, Final Fantasy, Persona series)

I train with my Katana every day, this superior weapon can cut clean through steel because it is folded over a thousand times, and is vastly superior to any other weapon on earth. I earned my sword license two years ago, and I have been getting better every day.

I speak Japanese fluently, both Kanji and the Osaka dialect, and I write fluently as well. I know everything about Japanese history and their bushido code, which I follow 100%

When I get my Japanese visa, I am moving to Tokyo to attend a prestigious High School to learn more about their magnificent culture. I hope I can become an animator for Studio Ghibli or a game designer!

I own several kimonos, which I wear around town. I want to get used to wearing them before I move to Japan, so I can fit in easier. I bow to my elders and seniors and speak Japanese as often as I can, but rarely does anyone manage to respond.

Wish me luck in Japan!

[Anonymous No.4744963]

>>4744556
>"translator is a shit"
>can't into english
kys

[Anonymous No.4744971]

>>4744956
judging by the replies to the first post the people in this thread will actually think you're serious

[Anonymous No.4744998]

>>4744639
Secret of Mana had to be done in 30 days or so, and 40% of the script needed to be cut due to space limitations. Don't quote me on the numbers, though.
Just an example, I can only imagine it wasn't much better for other games.

[Anonymous No.4745005]

>>4744556
Elegantly put and well argued. May I suggest using a trip as well?

[Anonymous No.4745008]

he's alright, I don't think any of the games he translated had incredible script to begin with. FF6 and Chrono Trigger's later retranslations don't add much

[Anonymous No.4745016]

>>4744609
>>4744963
/vr/: as dense as ever edition

[Anonymous No.4745035]

I’ve got no complaints about the guy. Given the space restrictions and the goal of not making the translation a literal, dry mess, he did fine. Poor guy just did translations for an autistic demographic who have enough of an understanding of the language to say “That’s not a literal translation!” and want to label him as the great Satan because of it.

[Anonymous No.4745038]

>>4745008
I even prefer many of the names he used for items and monsters.

[Anonymous No.4745176]

>>4745035

>Poor guy just did translations for an autistic demographic

This. There's no fucking point arguing for and against translations with RPG fans as most of them don't understand inflections, humour or the portrayal of emotion in the first place. Some fantranslations are drier than the fucking Sahara and somehow they can convince themselves they've done a better job than someone who did it professionally their whole life.

Now Bitching about Working Designs I get, you get the feeling they were just throwing shit at the wall and had no respect for the work, but Woolsey doesn't give off that vibe at all.

[Anonymous No.4745182]

>>4744549
Why not judge it yourself?

http://kwh
azit.
ucoz.
net/
tra
ns/
ff6/

(I don't know what is up with linking)

[Anonymous No.4745215]

>>4745176

As long as I get the jist of what the original intent is, that is fine to me. I've seen many bootleg Chinese anime DVD's over the years with bad translations (like translating white Gundam as a giant white moppet) but I still get what was going on and can appreciate the story. Adding in shit like Bill Clinton jokes or changing what characters say that is where I draw the line.

[Anonymous No.4745260]

>>4744609
>falling for it

[Anonymous No.4745271]

>>4745176
Once you go bilingual you can't accept translations anymore without severely triggering your autism. I'm pretty shit at japanese and even I can tell how the original Frog was the complete opposite of the bumbling white knight that they turned him in the American script, plus there's added annoyance that nobody else in the middle ages used flowery speech besides him.

[Anonymous No.4745286]

>>4745271
How come NOBODY ELSE in the entire middle ages used flowery speech besides him?
Now I know somebody will come along and point out I am shit at Japanese but that's the thing, I'm only a beginner and even I can tell the way American Frog turned out was the opposite of what the creators intended.

[Anonymous No.4745293]

>>4745286
>How come NOBODY ELSE in the entire middle ages used flowery speech besides him?
Serious answer: because Woolsey ran out of time. His original intent was to have everyone in the middle ages talk like that.

[Anonymous No.4745416]

It's a mix of two things

- Squaresoft did not give a damn about overseas distribution, and used lackluster sales of Secret of Mana and Final Fantasy 6 to justify their lackluster track, cancelling planned games (Romancing SaGa, Final Fantasy 2/3 for NES, Front Mission, Final Fantasy "extREEEEEme" 5, etc) and for games that make it, tell translators to do it under one month. In one case they gave a Japanese SoM script to the german translator before checking if he knows the language or has an english script to translate from, and he made it all up.

- Ted Woosley did not like the source material. He often despised it or found it boring, and his idea of making it less boring was referencing his preferred pop trash bands (inspired Mega Man X5's joke of a translation), or faux queen's english that doesn't fit (inspired the unreadable Dragon Quest 4 translation), or made up insults to spice up things (the son of a submariner line, and then final fantasy 7's translation was inspired by it for most of its profanity laden fansub-like lines). For such a professional localizer, his translation of Super Mario RPG he didn't even bother to check established series terminology because that's about all the fucks he give about it, and so most NPC names are still untranslated nihongese, like Hinopio (what would be Suntoad or something similar)

He had good grammar, but translation was dubious.
But that was light years ahead of other translations then.
People look at the good grammar and say, yup this is a good translation. Weaboos poison the argument being hung too much over honorifics instead of looking at the myriads of examples of entire paragraphs completely removed by Woosley or other localizers, but that's because they're not very fluent in Japanese themselves either beyond first few lessons (the Aer-HISS posts)
People then get Golden Sun and Metal Gear Solid with plot holes and inconsistent names and plodding writing and think they're game flaws while it's the translation.

[Anonymous No.4745481]

>>4745416
>Metal Gear Solid

What is more infuriating is that Twin Snakes was supposed to bring an accurate script for once, but they only "fixed" some lines by making them sound even dumber than they were originally instead of just making them more accurate (and no, the two aren't mutually exclusive), while they kept most of Blaustein's shoddy rewrites.

[Anonymous No.4745487]

>>4745293

Yeah that makes the most sense. I always read Frog as some kind of eccentric who longed for 'the old days' despite everybody else moving on, language-wise, which plays into his obsession with chivalry and the like. Obviously it's technically incorrect, but when I played the DS version he didn't really stand out as a character anymore.

[Anonymous No.4745494]

>>4745416
>>4745481

What exactly did people have against MGS? I always thought Blaustein did a fantastic job and kept all the dialogue firmly grounded in realism. I guess Kojima didn't agree but it seems like one of the few cases where taking liberties was warranted, looking at how many good lines are lost in the Gamecube version.

[Anonymous No.4745517]

>>4744998
>I can only imagine it wasn't much better for other games.
It was. His Secret of Mana translation reads like absolute ass because he had absolutely no time to do anything other than hammer down some quick and dirty "good enough" approximations of what was said, while his FF6 and Chrono Trigger translations are fairly well written because they weren't produced under similar conditions.

[Anonymous No.4745542]

>>4745182
I didn't know this. Thanks man.

It is pretty fascinating that people spend so much time doing this shit.

[Anonymous No.4745619]

>>4745494
It wasn't a faithful translation.

Not honorifics keeping deviations.
Not direct equivalent of Japanese sentence deviations either.
But fucking changing the plot to something he thought better because he knows how to write stories and Kojima does not.

Since that's not how writing work, especially when you do it behind your boss back without telling them not only to check their approval (but death of the author FTW!) but to make sure it's even consistent with the shit onscreen they make, that introduced plot holes and inconsistencies within the game's events, and then with the later games.
Basically after that incident Kojima trusted translators as a whole a lot less, and to see how much disdain Agnes Kaku had from her interviews about translating Ghost Babel and MGS2 and Hybrid Heaven for the game and their writers (she thinks they should be locked and never do any game story without the input of an american writer, for one), he wasn't wrong.

The best defense their fanboys, and these localizers themselves, have to justify this: "it's all trash writing anyways that does not matter by a wannabe writer, nothing of value is lost even if you threw it all and made it up all from scratch B-B-BUT don't you dare change one letter from my fabulous translated script when you port the game again, you'll ruin it forever"

[Anonymous No.4745639]

>>4745487
Woosley's Frog talked normally until he got brain damage from meeting Magus.

[Anonymous No.4745694]

>>4745494
It would be too long a list, but just some lines I saved recently:

Blaustein:
>Fox: But everytime I looked at her I saw her parents' eyes staring back at me.
Attempt at accurate localization:
>Fox: But everytime I looked into her eyes, I was always afraid she'd find out.

Blaustein:
>Fox: Fighting was the only thing... the ONLY thing I was good at... but at least I always fought for what I believed in.
Attempts at accurate localization:
>Fox: Fighting may have been the only thing I could ever achieve... but at least... I
>Fox: Fighting may have been the only thing I ever did in my life... but at least... it was a life that I wished for...

Blaustein:
>Liquid: After I launch this weapon and get our billion dollars we will be able...
Attempt at accurate localization:
>Liquid: For the time being, this new kind of nuke will grant us the necessary funds so that we can...

And trust me, there are lots more. While you can indeed salvage most of the translation, there are situations like these that make you wonder how just much of his head was shoved into his ass. Blaustein is also the guy that constantly strikes his cock over the "what is a man?" line and its meme value, even though none of that shit was in the original (so people don't even realize it's a scene from Rondo of Blood, because the fucker even translated "Rondo of Blood" as "Bloodlines" for some fucking reason). Igarashi even said that they had to take out a line when Death stole your weapons, apparently in the English version Alucard was going to shout "Noooooo!" and it sounded so lame they had to replace it with a stock "What!".
"Noooooo!" being a translation of "Shimatta!", which you would translate in any other way than what he did ("Damn it!" "Drat!").

[Anonymous No.4745701]

>>4745494
It would be too long a list, but just some lines I saved recently:

Blaustein:
>Fox: But everytime I looked at her I saw her parents' eyes staring back at me.
Attempt at accurate localization:
>Fox: But everytime I looked into her eyes, I was always afraid she'd find out.

Blaustein:
>Fox: Fighting was the only thing... the ONLY thing I was good at... but at least I always fought for what I believed in.
Attempts at accurate localization:
>Fox: Fighting may have been the only thing I could ever achieve... but at least... it was something that I chose for myself...
>Fox: Fighting may have been the only thing I ever did in my life... but at least... it was a life that I wished for...

Blaustein:
>Liquid: After I launch this weapon and get our billion dollars we will be able...
Attempt at accurate localization:
>Liquid: For the time being, this new kind of nuke will grant us the necessary funds so that we can...

And trust me, there are lots more. While you can indeed salvage most of the translation, there are situations like these that make you wonder how just much of his head was shoved into his ass. Blaustein is also the guy that constantly strikes his cock over the "what is a man?" line and its meme value, even though none of that shit was in the original (so people don't even realize it's a scene from Rondo of Blood, because the fucker even translated "Rondo of Blood" as "Bloodlines" for some fucking reason). Igarashi even said that they had to take out a line when Death stole your weapons, apparently in the English version Alucard was going to shout "Noooooo!" and it sounded so lame they had to replace it with a stock "What!".
"Noooooo!" being a translation of "Shimatta!", which you would translate in any other way than what he did ("Damn it!" "Drat!").

[Anonymous No.4745704]

>>4744639
Short deadlines, character and memory limits, Nintendo's censorship policies about drugs, religion and violence.

[Anonymous No.4745716]

How does everyone feel about Alexander O. Smith? Was his Vagrant Story translation good/faithful?
Also I know it's not retro but how does Blaustein's work on Silent Hill 2, 3 and 4 hold up? I'd hate to find out the games were butchered or that he just wrote whatever the hell he felt like, because that series is simply fantastic and dear to me

[Anonymous No.4745723]

>>4745619
>how much disdain Agnes Kaku had from her interviews

You mean Agness "Think again!" Kaku?
Or you mean Agness "Mickey Finn in my morning glass of OJ" Kaku?
Surely, you don't mean Agness "I don't think Shalashaska is a real word, you should get a Russian native for this" Kaku.
Oh, but maybe you mean Agness "You haven't read the Surgeon General's Warning have you" Kaku.
It's hard to pick them apart, between all the Agness "Exactly. Plastic explosives 'R Us" Kakus.

[Anonymous No.4745732]

>>4745487
he doesnt talk like that in the DS version? glad i never played it. frog is my favourite character in chrono trigger because he talks like that. man fuck weebs.

[Anonymous No.4745803]

>>4745716
Vagrant Story is a great translation.

FFT PSP is the worst though. It's so awful.

[Anonymous No.4745826]

>>4745701
All those "attempts" at localisation are terrible and read like a computer translation, they are awkward and make no attempt to sound like something an English speaker would say.

[Anonymous No.4745856]

>>4744639
They put him in the basement and made him kill cockroaches

[Anonymous No.4745873]

>>4745826
Explain.

[Anonymous No.4746056]

>>4745826
>4745826
>read like a computer translation
>make no attempt to sound like something an English speaker would say
Meme criticisms. Why don't you just call it for what it is: "bad writing"?

[Anonymous No.4746063]

>>4745826
It's more that you're used to hearing nothing but cliches and pre-made sentences
The attempts in the post are fine. There's nothing wrong with them
The actual translation fails by virtue of simply modifying things to what they wanted. Liquid talking about a billion dollars is pure Blaustein fan-wank and something out of a shitty Austin Powers movie, which is what Blaustein probably thought he was working on

[Anonymous No.4746117]

>>4745416
>For such a professional localizer, his translation of Super Mario RPG he didn't even bother to check established series terminology because that's about all the fucks he give about it

To be fair, its not like there were wikis to easily reference at the time, and its not like you normally got a lexicon of every obscure translation for one off proper nouns.

[Anonymous No.4746125]

>weebs are still mad that you have to change some dialogue a little because English and Japanese are so incredibly different from each other doing a direct translation sounds clunky and forced

[Anonymous No.4746214]

>>4744549
>how bad
Not at all. Under the conditions he was working against, he did a fucking fantastic job.

[Anonymous No.4746217]

I like his translations, they have charm.

[Anonymous No.4746243]

>>4745826
...so why don't you reword them into something that sounds like what an English speaker would say?

[Anonymous No.4746249]

>>4746214
Mario RPG is pretty fucking lazily translated. A translator of a Mario game not knowing, nor bothering to check, what a Koopa Troopa is sounds like a joke.

[Anonymous No.4746506]

>>4745619
>>4745701

Interesting stuff, thanks for the explanation.

Fanwank or not I like those first two Blaustein lines better, I'm not sure, I guess I like how introspective they are. Japanese has a tendency to be quite dry emotionally, I could see why they'd be poorly received by Kojima, but that kind of melodramatic flair suits a impactful scene in English. I can't say I'd ever argue for translators making shit up but I don't hate it here. I can at least see Blaustein's logic.

The 'billion dollars' line is pure cheese though, the Austin Powers comparison was quite apt. Not sure what he was thinking there.

[Anonymous No.4746906]

>>4746125
>implying english and japanese are so different that when you try to translate a plot point without epically missing the point, getting the names wrong, or adding memes, Microsoft Word's Clippy will jump out of the screen and murder you
>>4746117
Nintendo had no reference documents? Not even the manuals every kid got with the games? But the names he messed up he inconsistently translated elsewhere, so more than a lack of documentation it's a lack of care and no amount of support will fix that.
>>4746217
All bases are belong to us has charm too.

[Anonymous No.4746925]

>>4745701
Oh yeah, the Castlevania SoTN translation.
Bloodlines might have been marketing since Rondo of Blood never made it outside, and the jp name means the circle of reincarnation of blood so it's not too far off even though a mistake.

The translation is so far off the original script they got it retranslated, and the retranslation isn't any better. Every single reference to christianity in the text, besides a voiced line in the chapel (they cut from the NA version anyways in their infinite wisdom) is made up, the japanese script is all about "shared values" and "humanity is able to prosper because of love" so if anything that heathen who sees our lord and savior JC's light routine loads the work with a message the developers very much did not intend and is so hilariously out of place in a game series that was censored because of offending (non/)religious folk.

>Igarashi even said that they had to take out a line when Death stole your weapons, apparently in the English version Alucard was going to shout "Noooooo!" and it sounded so lame they had to replace it with a stock "What!".
Yet another tyrannical Japanese developer who does not understand the art of localization or the subtleties of the American English language and the little fucker thinks he knows better.

[Anonymous No.4746938]

>>4745008
This is right. Recently I played FF6 on the GBA because some anon said that the translation there made the game look more mature. It turns out is the same garbage.

[Anonymous No.4746941]

>>4745416
>People then get Golden Sun and Metal Gear Solid with plot holes and inconsistent names and plodding writing and think they're game flaws while it's the translation.
>Golden Sun
What did I miss?

[Anonymous No.4747018]

>>4745701
those localisation attemps are terrible

[Anonymous No.4747030]

>>4746906
>Nintendo had no reference documents?

Probably not any that made it to Woolsey, since you'd need Nintendo's translation department to submit their lexicon of official translations to Square, who would need to make sure that Woolsey was aware of it, and if it were that important it should have been written in to the licensing agreement. There are half a dozen potential points of failure in that document flow if you know anything about document control.

I know the turbo-nerd expectation of translating is that you've consumed all previous media in a franchise as well as the various apocrypha such as licensed novels and happy meals toys, but this is just a job, not someone perfecting a passion project.

[Anonymous No.4747094]

>>4746925
>The translation is so far off the original script they got it retranslated

That's not saying much, the PSP translation is a joke. It's as if they fed Blaustein's translation back to Blaustein itself without knowing it was his and told him "make it even more wacky". The PS1 original, except for some scenes, is at least somewhat accurate. PSP on the other hand is garbage all around.

[Anonymous No.4747106]

>>4745701
those attempts sound so dry and soulless holy shit, they're star wars prequel tier bad

[Anonymous No.4747178]

>>4745271
As a fan of classical music and opera, I've gotten quite used to seeing a wide variety of interpretations of classics, including different translations and even art styles, like playing JS Bach's keyboard works with swing 8ths and a rhythm section. Some works are more flexible than others.

So I don't really mind seeing different takes on characters so long as it's a quality interpretation. But I understand

What really bothers me though is when translations get "fixed" and those fixes wind up renaming half the catalog of items and monsters. Most of the time in FF games, item and monster names aren't story-related or particularly consistent with in-universe lore. They're just semi-random references to mythical creatures, made-up words, or real-life historical/cultural references. In this case, accurate translation is far less important than names and labels that are appropriate for and enhance the gameplay experience for the target audience. And in that case, I do get annoyed by the nitpicking autism of weebs.

[Anonymous No.4747180]

>>4747030
Anon, it's an official translation of a Mario game that refers to Koopa Troopas as "Nok Noks" because nobody involved with the localization knew anything about Mario beyond the barest, barest basics. You're seriously defending this.

Would you have defended Bowser being named "Copper" too because "Woolsey should not be expected to know Bowser is an established character"?

[Anonymous No.4747183]

>>4747106
I've never played MGS and know nothing about it. But to my eye, the Bon-Blaustein versions are wordy as fuck and very clumsy and awkward (if technically correct) English.

[Anonymous No.4747191]

>>4747183
Don't bother, anon. "(official made-up "translation") is good because (someone's attempt at accurate translation) is worded badly" is the go-to excuse for shitposters. If an official translation is inaccurate, it's always because it's literally impossible to accurately translate it, so the translator HAD to make some shit up to replace the text with.

[Anonymous No.4747198]

>>4747180
Not him. I wouldn't defend the translation, but if we're assigning blame for a failure, it is absolutely on Nintendo's project leader to ensure the translator has the appropriate resources and uses them when required.

[Anonymous No.4747214]

>>4747198
Oh, I agree. I think the Secret of Mana translation is absolute fucking garbage, but I also realize the reason it's so bad is that Woolsey had no choice but to shit something out in a hurry in order to be done before his ridiculously short deadline was up.

But just because the quality of the translation should be blamed on someone other than the translator does not mean the translation isn't bad.

[Anonymous No.4747253]

>>4746941
Golden Sun was panned for extremely long dialog scenes that take forever to finish. Guess why they're long, and only in the English versions. They didn't even get simple translations right.

Aqua Strike → Aqua Socks
Mud Spatter → Mad Spatter
Fulminous Edge → Formina Sage
Dark Contact → True Collide
X Breath → X Blessing (Bless)
Suicide Sting → Mortal Blow
Altin Mines → Altin Peak
Orichalcum → Orihalcon

Go ahead and guess which version is the Engrish one that doesn't make any sense disguised behind that ploddingly written wall of text editing.

[Anonymous No.4747258]

>>4747253
To be fair, Golden Sun is a fucking awful game to begin with.

[Anonymous No.4747260]

>>4747191
Of course.
We all know if the translator doesn't make up shit, the translation will sound like babelfish.
Now excuse me while I read my Murakami translated novel with a poop joke in that emotional part, it's a delight to read because the book is crap and only elevated with said poop joke.

[Anonymous No.4747262]

>>4747258
That's like your opinion, man.
Even assuming it was shitty, emptying two bags of organic dung on it won't make it better.

[Anonymous No.4747287]

>>4745701
the Blaustein ones sound pretty good, the "accurate" ones are literal to the point of being boring as shit and I can't even read through them
>>4746506
Japanese aren't "quite dry emotionally", rather there are things implied and left unspoken which are lost when someone makes a literal translation to English.
if you read a text in Japanese and understand it then read an English translation, it doesn't matter how good the translation is, much will be lost. If you're going to lose substance either way you might as well try and end up with a coherent story which is what the localizers try to do.
and let me also point out that many changes involving words like death and suicide used to be strictly mandated by Nintendo because they had severe content policies for English language content which is why blood and religious symbolism were removed from all games through the 16 bit era at least, hence the bloodless mortal kombat and wolfenstein with big black plusses

[Anonymous No.4747317]

>>4747287
So you're arguing that Blaustein is such a shitty translator he's incapable of translating things and making them sound good?

[Anonymous No.4747331]

>>4747317
I believe I just said that his translation sounded pretty good, can you make it sound better? I'll wait.
Please post the original Japanese alongside your translation and I'll compare the two.

[Anonymous No.4747339]

>>4747331
Blaustein didn't translate, though, he replaced the line with some shit he made up because he apparently wasn't able to translate it.

I'm not claiming to be a good translator either, but unlike him, it's not my job. Do you think professionally translated novels are full of passages the translator made up because they weren't able to translate what the original author wrote or something?

[Anonymous No.4747340]

>>4747331
Not him, but you're the sort of person as long as the grammar pleases you enough the text could be all made up like Samurai Ninja Cats or Batman Ninja's american release for all what you care.

You're in love with the burger version.
This still doesn't make it a good translation.
If you read localizer interviews, they don't defend their shit saying it's a good translation because it "feels better". They bring up justifications why the original STORYTELLING doesn't work, and why their work is localization so they can't be held up to the same standards as normal translators.

[Anonymous No.4747349]

>>4747340
They also tend to sound like presumptious faggots acting like they're better writers than the original author while at it. These are not the kind of people anyone would want near a work they want to give a good translation.

[Anonymous No.4747359]

>>4747340
>You're in love with the burger version
I actually hate Metal Gear and think the gameplay, plot and writing are all absolute shit, although I have only played the US version. I think Kojima is an overrated hack and I don't know who Blaustein is actually and furthermore I think the English text as shown there is dumb. But it's a lot better than the dull, stilted meandering fansub nonsense that is supposed to be the "corrected" version. One is acceptable in a commercial product, the other is unacceptable.

[Anonymous No.4747370]

>>4747287
>if you read a text in Japanese and understand it then read an English translation, it doesn't matter how good the translation is, much will be lost.

I'm >>4745701 and I took care of a couple of those things, the dialogue is not literal to the Japanese (otherwise I wouldn't have written localization). And by the way, I may have misinterpreted Fox's last words, I'm not a really professional, there are good chances Blaustein had got the right nuance (since he worked close to KCEJ, and he could read the whole script anyway). Still, some of the other lines are indeed rewritings.

>>4746063
>Liquid talking about a billion dollars is pure Blaustein fan-wank and something out of a shitty Austin Powers movie

To be fair the billion dollars thing was an earlier plot point (they were going to get that money from the US), once REX was incapacitated from launching nukes, Liquid couldn't blackmail the government anymore so he couldn't know how much money he'd get from selling the prototype stealth nukes and the railgun technology to the black market.

[Anonymous No.4747375]

>>4747339
A video game is not a literary novel.
A video game is something that needs mass market appeal to sell units.
the localizer does what they need to do to make a consistent, cohesive product matching the standards of the target market and the client in the short deadline they are provided. From all known metrics, he did his job correctly and successfully.
If I changed the content of my translated text the way he seems to have done, I would be fired. But if he turned in a translation that was meandering word salad like the fan translations above, he would likely be fired as well.
we all do our jobs in the way that the customer and the client demands. I understand you may worship Kojima's prose, but please understand that you aren't the target market for this game. You will buy one copy while bubba six pack and his 17 cousins will buy 18 copies between them, and they want to be able to understand the story
it probably sounds like I am being a dick and I sort of am because of what site we are posting on but what I'm saying is not completely unreasonable, is it?

[Anonymous No.4747379]

>>4747375
But if he had turned in an accurate translation that DID read well, he wouldn't have been fired.

Are you saying he's such a bad translator he's not able to translate in a way that sounds good?

[Anonymous No.4747387]

>>4747375
It's not an either-or situation, you retard. Are you saying the professional English translations of Murakami are "meandering word salad"?

[Anonymous No.4747392]

These translations threads always make me cringe. Half of it is people that know nothing about how to translate, have no experience doing it, or maybe have at best an elementary understanding of Japanese and want to believe that their opinion based on limited understanding is the word of God. The rest are just weebs that are jealous someone understands Japanese better than then. Truly sad.

>>4747183
Kojima games are ridiculously verbose in Japanese and if you’ve played them you’d know this. Stop trying to push it off on the translator. If anything I applaud any one that has to translate Kojima because of how verbose it is.

>>4746906
>t. Angry weeb who only understands very simple Japanese learned from anime

>>4747094
You would think that a translator changes his ability after almost a decade but nope everything is static and unchanging

>>4747339
If you read French there is a good example of how literature is changed through translation. There is a book floating around of Translations of Baudelaire’s poetry and each one is done by 3-4 people with the original French. Each one is very different. That’s how shit works, not every translator is the same; ideally the translator tries to mimic the source author but many times they also have to take liberties to help convey the mood, keep rhyming intact, meet deadlines/demands or because of the subtleties that are in the source language that are difficult to translate into the target. who would have thought that languages and cultures were different?

>>4747331
From a professional standpoint, I’d agree that he is pretty good and has matured over the years. While not perfect he has some really good projects. I’m a huge fan of Kamaitachi no Yoru and was cynical about hearing that it’d get a Western localization and besides some obvious changes such as location and Kamaitachi becoming Banshees, he actually did a really good job in comparison.

[Anonymous No.4747396]

>>4747370
I wasn't aware that you'd written it yourself otherwise I might have read it more closely, your translation is probably more accurate but the way I understand it these commercial products have all sorts of guidelines and all kinds of people with their hands in the pot and everybody wants the thing to end up sounding like a Hollywood movie. Maybe the original story is good, my negativity may be impacted by my burning hatred for Metal Gear Solid 1 because to me it was really an awful game with awful writing. I've played other games in Japanese and he always been appalled by the translated version when it eventually comes out, but because there is so much difference in culture and language between Japanese and English that all translations are huge compromises and at some point it seems the best choice for the greatest good is to focus on making a product that has the appearance of the desired quality level despite it not being what the original creator intended.
I don't do translations of creative works myself because my job is business related, so ironically despite all the bullshit I have spread in this thread my own translations are focused first and foremost on accuracy and only secondarily on style.
It's good work you've done but it's important to remember that your goals in making your localization are likely quite different from the company's goals when they hired that guy to localize it.

[Anonymous No.4747397]

>>4747392
Poetry is not really a good example. There's so many different ways to represent what the original author was doing to the best of your ability.

[Anonymous No.4747401]

>>4747392
>wanting a translation is being "weeb"

Ok, Japanese Expert-kun. Can you give a single example of something that has been given a second translation that was superior to the original translation, and explain WHY this second translation was superior?

[Anonymous No.4747402]

>>4747387
I believe he is saying these fan translations >>4745701 are meandering word salad, which is true.

[Anonymous No.4747403]

>>4747387
>Are you saying the professional English translations of Murakami are "meandering word salad"?
I've read Murakami in Japanese and his original text is meandering word salad
I understand they cleaned it up a bit for the English version.
>>4747379
they made a lot of money and his client seems to have been happy and he got it in by the deadline so it looks like he did a good job.
You're repeating your question I see but I believe I've addressed your concerns above

[Anonymous No.4747405]

>>4747396
>he shat on anon's translation without even reading it because his entire point was just going to be "Blaustein good, not-Blaustein bad" no matter what the alternate translation was
k

[Anonymous No.4747410]

>>4747403
The guy that translated the manual to Solomon's Key also made his client happy and got it in by the deadline, so it looks like he did a good job as well.
Right?

[Anonymous No.4747418]

>>4747405
>not reading what I wrote
I'm trying to be polite and soften my earlier blanket criticisms because I didn't realize I was talking to the guy who wrote it and I don't want to be unfair to him. My point about marketable vs not marketable still stands.
>>4747410
I don't know what Solomon's Key is but judging by the phrasing of your statement it appears you believe the opposite is the case. I have no basis upon which to challenge your assertion.

[Anonymous No.4747424]

>>4747401
Not understanding how something works and then saying it sucks because your coming at it from a background of ignorance makes that thing wrong?

>Japanese expert kun
Thanks for proving my point that weebs are mad at anyone that has a better understanding of Japanese than them.

>>4747397
For what I said it could be the same for literature as well. Why are there multiple translations of Dostoyevsky? If it’s that simple to translate literature why not just have one translation, or multiple translations that are the same exact thing? Because language changes when you translate it and people bring their own interpretations to the table when they translate.

[Anonymous No.4747428]

>>4747392
I don't read French, but I do read Norwegian, and one of the most impressive translations I've ever read of anything is Rolf Fjelde's translation of Ibsen's Peer Gynt. It's an incredible translation that really preserves the spirit of the original work - and is translated according to Ibsen's own idea of what a good translation should be - and it goes so heavily against what all the "translations should be full of rewrites because it's impossible to be accurate and not sound like shit" faggots here say it's ridiculous.

[Anonymous No.4747438]

>>4747424
thank you anon, this is what I've been trying to say as well but I've been shitposting for so long that I'm beginning to lose the ability to communicate normally

[Anonymous No.4747443]

>>4747424
>supports multiple translations of the same work that translate it in different ways
>throws a shitfit about people not liking Blaustein's "translation" and wanting a more accurate one, calling them weebs
What.

Is everyone that likes prefers something other than the first ever translation of a given Dostoyevsky novel a Russeeb, then?

[Anonymous No.4747452]

>>4745639

Honestly I'm going with this as my head canon, Frog was so traumatized by being turned into a frog he adopted old English as a coping mechanism

[Anonymous No.4747457]

>>4747428
>Norwegian literary to (closely linguistically related) English literary translation by a master is possible so Japanese mass-market voice acting scripts should be able to be 1:1 translated to American mass-market fake Hollywood voice acting scripts despite the languages and cultures sharing nothing in common and people speaking colloquial Japanese should be precisely translated into English preserving the nuances and idioms both literally and figuratively and these should sound like perfectly normal and snappy English dialog despite having no content or other changes and all this should be done on a shoestring budget with a crushing deadline because the voice actors have already been hired and cash is burning
this is what you're saying right?

[Anonymous No.4747460]

>>4747457
You have literally no clue what Peer Gynt is and what makes it a considerable challenge to translate, do you?

[Anonymous No.4747462]

>>4747460
I looked it up on Wikipedia, it's an old play from the 1800's.
now let's get back to my question

[Anonymous No.4747474]

>>4747462
Your argument is basically that you think it's MORE challenging to translate fucking Metal Gear Solid into English than Peer Gynt because "muh magical nihongo is so untranslatable", which makes you a bigger weeb than anyone else here. It's a language like any other, and this Blaustein guy comes across as an incompetent fuck if he wasn't able to stick closer to the original text than what the above indicates.

[Anonymous No.4747485]

>>4747405
Keep dreaming. Here is some objective analysis.
Blaustein vs Anon:
>Liquid: After I launch this weapon and get our billion dollars we will be able...
>Liquid: For the time being, this new kind of nuke will grant us the necessary funds so that we can...

Most obviously, Blaustein's uses a clear, direct active voice while anon used passive voice. Anon also starts the sentence with a qualifying clause, which is not an error but in English at least you try to avoid them unless you really need it or it's something peculiarly in-character. Blaustein's version leaves this point implied based on the conditional at the end. Anon's also hopelessly verbose.

>For the time being, this new kind of nuke will grant us the necessary funds so that we can...
For now, this new model nuke will provide the funds we need to...

I'm not even a professional writer.

[Anonymous No.4747489]

>>4747485
So you're saying Blaustein is such a shitty writer he's not able to accurately translate without making it sound like shit, so he has to make something up instead, right?

[Anonymous No.4747495]

A comment on Castlevania: SOTN

The main problem with the game is the awful voice acting, the guy who did Death was actually a good actor, when you hear him cackling "i'll not ask you to return to OUR side, but I demand you cease your attack!" and followed by Alucard's "I willllll notttt" it just sounds so bad in comparison.

A good translation is worthless if the delivery is hammy. Likewise MGS1 had great voice-acting for what is a period where voice acting in games is taken for granted. Any mistakes in translation are superseded by the natural speech delivery in it.

[Anonymous No.4747496]

>>4747485
...so are you saying your translation is better than Anon's? In that case, aren't you killing your own argument that it's impossible to accurately translate and not have it sound bad, necessitating Blaustein-type rewrites?

[Anonymous No.4747508]

>>4747474
I don't care about peer gynt or your opinions regarding how easy or difficult it is to translate. I am a professional Japanese to English translator and my job can be fucking hard sometimes. If you think that the fact that I have observed that my job can be difficult sometimes means that I am a weeb then please allow me to suggest that there is a distinct possibility that you just might be fucking retarded.

[Anonymous No.4747510]

>>4747496
>>4747489
Mine is not a translation, it's an edit of one. Without more context it's impossible to evaluate the Blaustein version. It's dialogue, for one thing. Writers often use language appropriate for the character. Blaustein's dialog is clearly spoken by a character with some personality (eg determined, decisive, perhaps reckless). The alternative dialog is generic, it has no personality and could have been said by anyone.

Without seeing the translation as a whole, then, it's hard to evaluate.

[Anonymous No.4747514]

>>4747496
>>4747489
You realize you're talking to two different anons right? He's the one calling you a weeb, whereas I'm the one calling you an idiot

[Anonymous No.4747517]

>>4747510
Considering how literal-sounding anon's translation was, I think it's fairly easy to guess roughly what the original Japanese was.

I don't have the script available, but I assume anon does, and the point remains that what you provided was a translation that read fine AND was most definitely more accurate than Blaustein's.

[Anonymous No.4747520]

>>4744556
I lick him and I'm not his fans. Why generalizations?

[Anonymous No.4747551]

>>4747517
Mine was still passive voice and had no direct action verbs. If you're actually doing a localization that is something to consider, as the two languages have very different attitudes about this and what should be implied and left unsaid.

[Anonymous No.4747561]

>>4747551
You're the one that didn't consider it, though.

[Anonymous No.4747564]

>>4747561
no u

[Anonymous No.4747616]

>>4747495
Also, in the case of MGS, the later games in that series that did have a more literal translation managed to take the same cast of skilled voice actors and turn them into hammy parody voices.

[Anonymous No.4747620]

>>4745016
>kys
It's an underage /v/ermin that came here to shitpost.

[Anonymous No.4747623]

>>4747485
>For now, this new model nuke will provide the funds we need to...

If you put it like this, I would also remove "model" (it's not really a model), but then you'd get something like "this new nuke", and any VA is going to struggle with the nju: sounds.

[Anonymous No.4747635]

>>4747508
Oh sure, I did professional game translator too, from English, for PAL versions. I would not dream of rewriting much less removing plot points behind their backs and stealth get myself the co-writer seat. They're super anal even about keeping some trademarked English names so no game title dropping, or changing this or that weapon... Not that I would want to, either.

Burger translators think they reserve themselves that right.
French and Italian translators do just fine from Japanese even when the translators are notable insufferable grammar & style purists. Where they see a sentence that reminds them of some reference and fits that in, burger translators with few exceptions (Xseed, whoever did Yakuza 0) think of the reference first and then the translation as an afterthought.

Plus Alfa whines on their site their Shaman King translations are close to the original and they did not get to add extra lines because of the text limitations and this makes it a jig they're not proud of. You seem to be frustrated a ton, anon translator. Are you in the same plight as Blaustein who was denied by Kojima and even that IGA refused to press some of his takes in SOTN's master copy? Did some shithead clients demand your copy to closely reflect the original? The horror.

[Anonymous No.4747637]

>>4747616
>more literal translation

That's pushing it.

[Anonymous No.4747650]

>>4747637
The game's plot is the same, no allergic reactions to nipponese cultural references (the river in MGS3), no cutting down problematic stuff like Quiet...
OF COURSE it's literal. It's almost as bad as Breath of Fire 2 and Secret of the Stars, Konami should be ashamed of their works and deeds and hire the DBZ Abridged Dub team to translate it, anything they will put out will be better than the trash mental wank Kojima spent time masturbating it. Language? Manufactured consent? Anti-war messages? Pshht--spit.

[Anonymous No.4747661]

He did a fine job. Could the translations have been better/more accurate? Probably. But they're perfectly fine.

[Anonymous No.4747685]

>>4747661
>Secret of Mana
>perfectly fine

[Anonymous No.4747723]

>>4747340

It's Samurai Pizza Cats you uncultured fucking swine.

[Anonymous No.4747750]

>>4744639
IIRC he was the only one doing a script. More than once it was only 30 days, and he had to do multiple revisions to cut everything down the size over memory/in-game menu limits.

>>4745639
I always thought it was because the frog lips made him always -th things, so he might as well just adapt.

[Anonymous No.4747756]

>>4745487
Slattery more or less corrected Frog in exchange for making Magus way more talkative than the original script.

Take a couple of looks. Funnily enough, outside of the shitty End of Time dialog it was mostly done right the first time.

[Anonymous No.4747768]

>>4747723
The name was made up by literally uncultered "translators" who didn't even know the language of what they were "translating" either in written or heard form. I could care less about getting it right.

[Anonymous No.4747827]

>>4747768

Goddamn get that stick out of your ass you fucking autist. You're the only guy in here sperging out about 'the burger version' and to-the-letter translation in this thread, it's gone from what was a pretty entertaining debate on accuracy to you just shitting on everyone that dares offer a differing viewpoint with no arguments presented.

In this case of Samurai Pizza Cats, Saban literally making shit up on the spot made for a more entertaining show than the generic kids drivel it was originally. This isn't up for debate, the anime was a flop and Saban were working under the specific instruction from the creators to do whatever they wanted with the script. Said creators have gone on-record to say they prefer the dubbed version over their own. Why you think it was some form of careless sabotage is anyone's guess.

[Anonymous No.4747837]

>>4747827
>Said creators have gone on-record to say they prefer the dubbed version over their own
Of course they have.

[Anonymous No.4747852]

>>4747827
And the creator of MGS has gone on record to say that the English translations of the early MGS games are terrible.

Do creators' opinions only count when they fit your argument or something?

[Dillweed No.4747863]

>>4744556
kek'd

[Anonymous No.4747967]

>>4747635
>Are you in the same plight as Blaustein who was denied by Kojima and even that IGA refused to press some of his takes in SOTN's master copy? Did some shithead clients demand your copy to closely reflect the original? The horror.
nope, I rarely get complaints. In fact I often get paid extra by clients after the fact when I find and correct factual errors in their source material.
Again, I don't don't do video game translation, the work I do demands a higher degree of accuracy and conformity with other content which is hard when the dope responsible for making the request doesn't bother to pass along any of the reference material and you end up having to dig through public stockholder announcements to find info about the internal structure of the company

[Anonymous No.4747972]

>>4747852
>And the creator of MGS has gone on record to say that the English translations of the early MGS games are terrible.
It's a perfect match for the game then isn't it?

[Anonymous No.4747973]

>>4747972
Yes

[Anonymous No.4748780]

>>4744556
Jimmy James: Macho Business Donkey Wrestler

[Anonymous No.4748862]

>>4747827
> You're the only guy in here sperging out about 'the burger version' and to-the-letter translation in this thread
No, I also make posts defending Woosley and WD, also under the name "Anonymous". It's my master plan to mess up with your fragile psyche and so far it's working wonderfully.

YOU are the entertaining show here.
The Saban asshats were literally uncultured and credited themselves translators despite not even knowing a single letter of the script. I think it speaks more about you when you think anything less than that is a "to-the-letter translation"

>Said creators have gone on-record to say they prefer the dubbed version over their own
Oh yes, just like Ghost Stories' original animators were said to have "highly appreciated ADV's dub", and how "it saved a show that was once a flop and made it a success".
... according to ADV translators of course.
Despite the show having in fact had a high audience during its initial showing in Japan. Still recieving reruns. And the Japanese side licensing it again years later to another publisher who then made their new accurate translation instead of reusing the SUPERIOR adv translation.
Gee. It's as if that kind of trivia is as accurate as the "translations" it's about. Kind of fits.

Or how about Nintendo of America.
>changes game.
>Iwata Ask interview, and art book mention the cut content and how important it is
>"edit" those too
>"...what cuts? Here, the creators said nothing was cut."

We get your passion for abridged dubs. You should be more understanding that not everyone wants to pay $60 for that kind of shit passed off as a translation with no disclosure whatsoever.

[Anonymous No.4748895]

>>4748862
Why don't you just make posts under the name Edgar Gramps? It's not like everyone can't tell.

[Anonymous No.4748897]

>>4744556
Based ESL phoneposter.

[Anonymous No.4748929]

>>4747253
>Dark Contact → True Collide
"Dark" and "True" seem neither phonetically similar to me, nor in meaning. What exactly went wrong here? Multiple meaning for one moonrune, and they chose the wrong one?

[Anonymous No.4748947]

>>4748929
It's まのせっしょく, and for some reason they seemingly decided that ま was 真, which is pretty Google Translate-y. "真の" is never read as まの.

[Anonymous No.4748949]

>>4748929
>>4748947
Should be mentioned that "Dark Contact" is kinda eh as a translation in itself. It's more like "evil touch". Apparently Dark Contact is what the attack was called in the translation of the sequel.

[Anonymous No.4749001]

>>4748947
This is why we need kanji

[Anonymous No.4749006]

Good lord what an embarrassing thread

>>4747827
I thoroughly enjoy Samurai Pizza Cats but there's a lot of misinformation surrounding it.
For starters there aren't really all that many differences between it and the original, just replace the dated American references and puns with dated Japanese references and puns.
Secondly the creators haven't ever really said anything about it much less prefer it, which makes sense when you take the above into account.
Thirdly all the stuff about Saban's writers not having translations or whatever is pure internet rumor.
Lastly, the show most definitely was not a flop in Japan.

>>4748862
Discotek's Ghost Stories release is a 1:1 reissue of ADV's, they even used the dub as a selling point. Unless you're talking about the Animax dub, in which case you should know that a) it was aired before ADV's was finished, b) Animax always makes their own (usually terrible) dub if they can't get their hands on an older one, and c) that dub is pretty much lost media.

[Anonymous No.4749020]

>>4749001
Not really. If you can't tell that that まのせっしょく is 魔の接触, you have zero fucking business translating video games.

[Anonymous No.4749028]

>>4744956
>I speak Japanese fluently, both Kanji and the Osaka dialect

Holy fuck hahaha

[Anonymous No.4749030]

>>4749028
>unironically being unfamiliar with the Ken-sama pasta
Jesus fucking Christ

[Anonymous No.4749035]

>>4749028
your new is showing

[Anonymous No.4749046]

Didn't read the thread, just want to say lol EOPs and DJT EOPs.

[Anonymous No.4749057]

>>4749020
That's a fair point but what I'm really talking about is all the Japanese 101 students who flood the internet with "Japan needs to get rid of its outdated kanji system which is totally unnecessary because it already has a fully functioning phonetic alphabet"
kanji make the language so much easier to read and eliminate a lot of ambiguity as long as the person doing the typing bothers to look at the screen after pressing 変換 to make sure that the right kanji came out

[Anonymous No.4749185]

All I'm getting from this thread is that translators are 50% retarded and 50% failed writers who use translation and localization projects as excuses to push their own shitty writing
Reminds me of the absolute state of translating films and TV shows in my country where "I propose we make a toast" was literally translated to someone wanting to make butter-toast at a wedding

[Anonymous No.4749257]

>>4749057
Anything a Japanese 101 student says can be safely ignored.

[Anonymous No.4749460]

>>4747428
Cool man I love Ibsen so I’ll give that a look. Thank you.

>>4747438
I know how it is man.

>>4747443
Shutout? Haha. That’s grand. Having a hammer doesn’t make you a carpenter.

[Anonymous No.4749463]

>>4749460
Ah fuck I meant to say shitfit not shutout. Whatever that’s what I get for phone posting during my break.

[Anonymous No.4749480]

>>4747508
What do you translate? Most “professional” translators I know are pretty shitty and can’t even hold a conversation let alone do business in Japanese; probably why you think it’s hard. There are also a lot of fan translators that say they are “professional” but they mainly translate shitty hentai games, so I’m always sceptical of people that claim to be one online. If you’re legit, here something you might like:
昨夜、友達と韓国料理屋さんに行ってた。あそこね、キムチを食べすぎちゃって, 気持ちが悪くなったんだ。

[Anonymous No.4749576]

>>4749480
Last night, I went to a korean restaurant with a friend. While there I ate too much kimchi and got sick.
Based this off a Google translation, I'm curious if it's anywhere close. I'm guessing it's a trick-phrase full of double meanings and other tricky shit though
And in case it isn't obvious, I'm not that pro-anon

[Anonymous No.4749901]

>>4749576
I pretty much just wrote the Japanese equivalent of a dad joke. Kimuchi Kimochi - kinda like "What kind of cheese is not your cheese? Nacho cheese."

[Anonymous No.4750304]

>>4749576
There is no such thing as too much kimchi so it's obviously wrong

[Anonymous No.4750391]

>>4747402
Better a meandering world salad than the turd sandwich of the Blaustein translations.

[Anonymous No.4750417]

Which has the better English translation, FF6 SNES or FF6 GBA?

[Anonymous No.4750419]

>>4747392
>poetry

Poetry is a very bad benchmark to use for quality translations seeing as how poetry routinely and intentionally violates basic grammatical rules for the sake of art. In English poetry authors will even go as far as to intentionally misspell words or make up their own words entirely. So of course you will have multiple translations of poetic work that are equally viable, in the sense that they are all equally wrong.

>>4747424
For what I said it could be the same for literature as well.

No, you really can't.

[Anonymous No.4750420]

>>4749901
I wonder what would be a generally acceptable way of translating that. Going fully literal and dropping the slight humor, or doing some rough approximation, like "I ate too much kimchi and wound up really belchy." Or just going full Working Desings and saying "Whenever farmer MacDonald starts selling his famous barbecue rib sandwiches, I wind up eating so many that I puke!"

[Anonymous No.4750441]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvNxgHTWIlo

>this thread

[Anonymous No.4750497]

>>4750420
you think that's hard, try to translate the joke that Sakamoto Kyu told on the Steve Allen show in 1963:
https://youtu.be/HpBtU4rAYWo
even if you get the joke there's no way to translate it to English which is why the interpreter just kind of gives up.
I seem to remember there was a longer version of this video on YouTube a long time ago where the older lady finally says something like "the one friend says 'there's a nice wall' and his friend says 'oh really?'" and then there's dead silence and Steve Allen just turns and stares at the camera and the audience starts laughing

[Anonymous No.4750509]

I'm not gonna complain about stuff like Woolsey's when I've seen garbage the likes of Discotek's Teyandee translations.

[Anonymous No.4750564]

>>4744998
Goddamn. I got to learn Jap now

[Anonymous No.4750598]

>>4750441
This video unironically made me think. Sometimes the nuance of a word can be expressed by an astoundingly good delivery depending on the context, without the need to localize it because it's all implied in said delivery. Too bad you really need to be a stage-actor tier professional or prodigy, and the director must REALLY know what they're doing. The likelihood of both of these things happening at once is sadly nothing short of a miracle.

[Anonymous No.4750809]

>>4747402
Vagrant Story, Golden Sun, Dragon Quest IV are still meandering word salads, but instead of "let's translate all of this literally" it's "oh why am i even working on this shitty game oh well i'll impress them with my perfect sense of humor and lots of shakespearian old english words and accents all fake as fuck, that's all what matters to make it a good translation right? anyone who disagrees want babelfish or honorifics and is a weebuh" which is not that much better.

Nihongese isn't a mystical alien language that always collapses to yoda speech when you try and translate it without mocking the original speaker's message with antics even abridged dubs would be above.

French "ouibous" threw a fit when they got a Hokuto no Ken gag dub in the eighties and now get well-written accurate translations that somehow satisfy translation purists AND style and grammar purists. It's not mutually exclusive. Their Fire Emblem Fates version is serious and people don't talk like clowns all the time, quelle surprise. No surprise they are the second largest market for japanese cultural exports.

[Anonymous No.4751129]

>>4750598
It's not really any different than sci-fi shows using made-up terms because "different cultures/the future".

Judge Dredd's "drokk" definitely comes to mind. People know what that word means and what kind of nuance it has even though it doesn't exist in their language.

[Anonymous No.4751136]

>>4745701
Hey, thanks, these are interesting. Especially 2, there's quite a significant difference in meaning there.

[Anonymous No.4751348]

>>4750509
>when I've seen garbage the likes of Discotek's Teyandee translations.
Wait, what? How bad is it?

[Anonymous No.4751375]

>>4750809
>Vagrant Story
is actually punchy as hell while still sounding like period dialogue without getting bogged down by historical accuracy

it's comic book Shakespearean and you need to shut the fuck up

dude gave us some fucking lines

>I AM THE REINFORCEMENTS

is something I still say while playing dark souls

[Anonymous No.4751448]

>>4751348
It's about as guesslated as the Samurai Pizza Cats dub, it's just that the guesslations say different inaccurate things.

[Anonymous No.4751525]

>>4750420
Hey that first one is pretty good actually.

>>4750497
Oh this is cool, I’ll watch it later when I get home. I agree though, imagine trying to translating some thing like Sandwich Man into English and keeping the same meaning where 75% of the jokes are based on the principle of “these words sound the same in Japanese”. I had thought about doing it because I love them and other konto groups but it’s almost impossible to keep the original idea without completely distorting the meaning.

>>4750809
Like I said above it’s easy to translate an straight forward anime, manga or game but when you get into stuff like comedy and word play, if you want to keep the original meaning and humor it’s really hard if not impossible.

[Anonymous No.4751550]

>>4751525
Nobody expects word play to be translated literally. If you're actually trying to translate wordplay comedy into another language, you kinda just have to explain what the joke is and why it's funny as best as you can. If there's no way to translate the joke, there's no way to translate the joke, and you can't really do anything other than explain why the joke is funny in the original language.

[Anonymous No.4751735]

Why do these threads always put forward this absurd "FULL 100% ACCURATE ENGRISH TRANSLATION" and "NO TRANSLATION CAN EVER BE ACCURATE SO LET'S BE INACCURATE AS HELL" dichotomy? Is it really that much to ask that Frog doesn't speak in Shakesperian English?

While I do think translating is not easy, I also think a lot of people make it appear much harder than it actually is. For instance >>4750441 who gives a shit about the term for "closest friend"? Why does it even MATTER? Using the Japanese term won't make us understand it anymore than we already can by saying "closest friend". Same with honorifics: the only times they are actually useful is when they denote a specific personality, and there are plenty of ways to make this visible in the English language without resorting to retarded Japanese honorifics. Even if I was wrong on this specific case, it just proves that certain things don't need to be translated because, ultimately, they don't matter to anyone but the Japanese audience who "gets" (as in, "shares") the meaning of them.

The real question that we should be asking ourselves is: is it more important to have a (reasonably) accurate translation, or is it better to try and improve on the original? I associate Vagrant Story with the Shakesperian English. I don't know what it is like in Japanese, but I know I can't think of the game in any other way.

[Anonymous No.4751745]

>>4751735
I also want to answer this myself, as I feel what can happen is that, even if the translation reads much better than the original language, people will prefer the original by virtue of being the original. Not because it reads better, but because OG = GOOD. While I think it is noble, I also think it is really retarded.

[Anonymous No.4751762]

>>4751735
>who gives a shit about the term for "closest friend"?
That's not what nakama means, you're thinking of shinyuu

good thing you're not a translator

[Anonymous No.4751774]

>>4751735
>>4751745
If a translator thinks he's a better writer than the person whose work he's translating, why is he spending his time "translating" instead of writing?

[Anonymous No.4751786]

>>4751745
What's CURRENTLY happening is that no matter what a translation reads like, people will prefer it by default out of a fear of being called "weebs" and shit all over any attempt at criticism, though.

"Reads better" is not an objective quality, and there honestly isn't anything wrong with just wanting to play a video game the way it was written and not the way someone calling themselves a translator decided to rewrite it.

[Anonymous No.4751860]

>>4751762
I'm talking about the video, you dumbfuck.

>"nakama is a word that means your closest friend like in one piece and there really is no English equivalent to how powerful that word is so we have decided to keep it as nakama"

>>4751774
It's easier to rewrite something that come up with something entirely from scratch. I don't need to be a professional writer to know Final Fantasy IV's intro sequence is amateurish as fuck.

[Anonymous No.4751864]

>>4751860
>I'm not wrong if I get incorrect information from a bad source and use it to explain something incorrectly
sure thing there retard

[Anonymous No.4751868]

>>4751860
>It's easier to rewrite something that come up with something entirely from scratch. I don't need to be a professional writer
you better fix your grammar and typos tho desu

[Anonymous No.4751869]

>>4751774
Because deep down, he knows his immature "jokes" on their own out in the marketplace of ideas will fail harder than an Amy Schumer comedy, and that people buy the work sold by its name, its developers and its own story, all of which are not his own.
What this means for him is that hijacking those games and trojaning his own name and "writing" is the next best thing. Worse and worse when you factor in translators trying to recently use these games to indoctrinate vulnerable children who don't know any better to their pet causes (fat shaming, xir is totally a normal pronoun, more than two genders, turning an FE Fates convo between two fujoshis insulting each other for being perverts fantasizing about two males fucking each other to be all about how awesome that would be because current year)

Ted Woosley was ironically more honest and had more integrity than most of these localizers.
He declined working on further works with Squaresoft and instead started developing his own original game with his original story, but it was too bad he got screwed over by Nintendo pulling 64DD support. There are some Nintendo France translators who joined Ubisoft too as creative leads.

[Anonymous No.4751881]

>>4747756
>you got whacked cuz you're weak

[Anonymous No.4751893]

>>4751881
>fiendlord

[Anonymous No.4752016]

>>4751864
>sure thing there retard
Do you not understand the point, retard? Some things aren't worth translating, and it's simply better to omit them.

I swear these threads are a magnet for autists.

[Anonymous No.4752120]

>>4752016
You translate everything. You translate the meaning of the sentence into abstract concept and rewrite it in another language.

What I'm saying is, you completely fucked up grammatically so it's a good thing this isn't your job.

[Anonymous No.4752163]

>>4752016
>Some things aren't worth translating, and it's simply better to omit them.

How cucked does someone have to be to be interested in Fire Emblem Waifus and buy it for like $60 only to find the "translator" "translated" a 12 line long conversation as "..." and purged lots of lines he didn't feel like translating, because the "translator" was not interested in Fire Emblem Waifus.

>It's okay, the plot is trash and only the shiny graphics... err no scratch that they cut on that too, t-the.. err, gameplay yes. Except those side missions that can't be explained away by their hatred of fanservice they cut for no reason. Yesss, I played it just for the gameplay. Everything else is trash anyways and the gag dub is the only legacy this shitty game deserves.
Why do you need a localization then to begin with? Might as well import the nihongese version you can't understand a lick of for cheaper, mute the sounds, and enjoy the shiny graphics.

Unless it's the fanservice that bothers you. In which case, instead of waiting for a localization to do that, why not mod every square inch of bare skin away like with the Quiet MGS5 mods in the original? There are fan translation mods, and then fan "relocalization" patches that bring back localization changes and cuts to the fan translation mods, so why not that?

[Anonymous No.4752231]

>>4751348
https://digitalshokunin.tumblr.com/post/124751308028/why-retranslate-teyandee
This is a sampling of some of the worst stuff. Apparently they improved things to an extent on the Crunchyroll versions of at least a handful of episodes.

[Anonymous No.4752303]

>>4752120
>You translate the meaning of the sentence into abstract concept and rewrite it in another language.
Except it is not always that easy, and things can be lost in translation.

>What I'm saying is, you completely fucked up grammatically so it's a good thing this isn't your job.
Thankfully I never said I wanted to be a professional translator. And grammar, to be frank, is the least of the problems going around with translations nowadays. Try cut content, characters having their personalities altered or manners of speech completely butchered.

>>4752163
>only to find the "translator" "translated" a 12 line long conversation as "..."
That's hardly what I'm saying, though. I'm talking about deliberately omitting bits of dialogue that only make sense to the native speakers. This includes particular nuances of the dialogue and stuff like specific references that only the target audience of the original work would understand.

If the 12-line long conversation is about a TV show popular in Japan and Japan only... sorry, I'm cutting it. It has no place in a work intended for worldwide audiences. Same with jokes only the Japanese get, pop culture references, and more. It's either that, or altering those jokes/references/etc. to something the rest of the world will get/can relate to.

[Anonymous No.4752332]

>>4752303
>If the 12-line long conversation is about a TV show popular in Japan and Japan only...

Way to change the subject by using the only safe argument you have left. What people are giving you shit for is the word "omitting", you should ADAPT things that are not immediately understandable for your audience, trying your best to mimic what the original Japanese writer would have done if his first language was English or whatever else.

[Anonymous No.4752432]

>>4752303
anon do you actually know japanese

[Anonymous No.4752584]

>>4752332
> you should ADAPT things that are not immediately understandable for your audience, trying your best to mimic what the original Japanese writer would have done if his first language was English or whatever else.
If I caught one of my translators taking such liberties with the source material I would fire them and make sure that they were never hired again, and I would share that information with colleagues across the industry.
You translate literally, word for word or you find yourself blacklisted and facing legal repercussions for misrepresentation and fraud

[Anonymous No.4752610]

>>4752584
If you translate books or manga, then I would almost agree with you, but then you would need to at least write TL notes.

[Anonymous No.4752834]

>>4752332
>Way to change the subject by using the only safe argument you have left.
It's the only argument I've ever put forward: don't translate things that have no equivalents. If they have equivalents, translate them ONLY if the result isn't a Frankenstein monster and it won't bother audiences. If it can be literally translated, or translated with good equivalents, then by all means do so: there's no excuse as to why entire plot elements are omitted from a translation.

For the record: I'd rather not translate pop culture references at all. It won't sit well to see an obviously Western reference in a Japanese videogame. It would simply be too jarring, pic related.

>trying your best to mimic what the original Japanese writer would have done if his first language was English or whatever else
It doesn't matter what language do you translate your game to: Latin American audiences don't get half of the references from The Simpsons, and thus the translators changed many of these names to Mexican celebrities. It was the right thing to do (if only the rest of Latin America knew about these people).

>>4752432
I don't. Does it matter? If so, explain why.

[Anonymous No.4752845]

>>4752834
"Pic related" is not a translation in any sense of the word, and that "retranslation patch" is about 50% "people that don't know a word of Japanese making shit up".

[Anonymous No.4752847]

>>4752834
>>4752332
Also
>How cucked does someone have to be to be interested in Fire Emblem Waifus and buy it for like $60 only to find the "translator" "translated" a 12 line long conversation as "..." and purged lots of lines he didn't feel like translating, because the "translator" was not interested in Fire Emblem Waifus.
An entire conversation or a specific term used by Japan and Japan only that has no English equivalent or cannot be translated without coming off as extremely awkward... Hmmm, guess which one I'm referring to when I say "it's not worth translating"?

[Anonymous No.4752853]

>>4752834
>people that only know one language trying to explain how translation should work
>using bullshit examples that aren't even translations
Every time

[Anonymous No.4752854]

>>4752845
>"Pic related" is not a translation in any sense of the word
The image displays a Western reference where there previously was none. And like I said, the end result is jarring as hell. It would be equally as jarring if placed where there previously used to be a Japanese celebrity reference.

[Anonymous No.4752860]

>>4752854
Do you really think Final Fantasy characters go around referencing random Japanese celebrities, and that the English translators erase these references and replace them with generic lines?

Maybe you should use a real example if you want to be taken seriously.

[Anonymous No.4752875]

>>4752854
Anon, the only reason it has a reference at ALL there is because the "translator" thought it was funny and decided to replace the line with some shit he made up.
You're literally arguing against your own argument here.

[Anonymous No.4752901]

>>4752875
>>4752854
>>4752847
>>4752834
what was the original line in Japanese

[Anonymous No.4753009]

>>4752901
おしばいするなら もうすこし うまく やっていただきたいものね。

[Anonymous No.4753023]

who cares? the japanese have never written anything worth reading so quality of translation is a non-issue.

[Anonymous No.4753027]

>>4753023
t.Ready Player One fan

[Anonymous No.4753031]

>>4753027
actually a gravity's rainbow fan. gtfo

[Anonymous No.4753070]

>>4753009
What a complete disgrace, it's a straightforward line that becomes nonsensical when they throw in William Shatner out of fucking nowhere
If the original was talking about Tashiro Masashi or someone it would be understandable but what the fuck

[Anonymous No.4753072]

>>4744549
It’s a shame he never got the chance to localize DUAL ORB 2

[Anonymous No.4753074]

>>4753070
The entire thing is full of shit like that. It's far less accurate than the original, official translation as a whole.

[Anonymous No.4753076]

I've seen too many awful translations from people who are clearly aiming for Woosley's style to hate the man himself.

[Anonymous No.4753083]

>>4752432
He clearly understands that video games are bought for the entertainment value, not the authenticity of the translation.

[Anonymous No.4753086]

>>4753083
Yet he was bitching about fan translators adding jokes about William Shatner in his next post.

[Anonymous No.4753089]

>>4753076
Woolsey never did anything even remotely like this.

[Anonymous No.4753113]

>>4753074
wait... this was a fan "retranslation"? It wasn't a joke project or anything?
I knew a guy years ago before fansubs were as widespread as they are now who was talking about translating and subbing anime into jeffk leetspeak just to fuck around but it was just kind of a joke and he never actually did it.
Is this possibly like a doom terrywad or something where they made it fucked up on purpose to piss people off?

[Anonymous No.4753127]

>>4753113
Not a retranslation, a translation period. It predates the Playstation release of FF4, so this was literally the only way to play an English version of the game that wasn't the hacked-to-bits American "FF2" version.

And yes, it got passed around as supposedly accurate.

[Anonymous No.4753128]

>>4753076
what the fuck
is this official? It's appalling, it completely changes the characters' personalities and makes the woman the crazy person instead of the man

[Anonymous No.4753136]

>>4753128
Not only is it official, it has an army of insane fans that insist this is the only way to translate and that anyone that even remotely suggests they don't like it is a pocky-sniffing weeb.

[Anonymous No.4753138]

>>4753127
Oh, I remember that. I downloaded it way back then but didn't go past the intro because i'd just finished Chrono Trigger and FF6 and the old graphics were too off-putting. Seems like I made the right decision in not wasting my time with it

[Anonymous No.4753140]

>>4753089
woosley cuts out dialogue and changes stuff all the time

[Anonymous No.4753147]

>>4753140
Not to this degree, and he mostly cut stuff in order to fit the translated dialogue into the limited space he had to work with.

[Anonymous No.4753148]

>>4752231
>censoring gay jokes
Such a shame that old anime is too """"problematic"""" for its modern audience and needs to be sanitized for their sensibilities.

[Anonymous No.4753162]

>>4753136
I think that dialog is just bad in the first place. I fell asleep trying to read it.

[Anonymous No.4753163]

>>4753136
aside from the massive personality changes the official translation sounds fucking stupid and isn't funny in the slightest, whereas the original Japanese is pretty funny because the guy is clearly off his rocker but in a very low-key sort of way

[Anonymous No.4753164]

>>4752834
>I don't. Does it matter? If so, explain why.
Do you have literally any experience in translation of anything or the learning of more than a single language or are you talking about something you literally have absolutely no business acting like you know about it.

[Anonymous No.4753173]

>>4753162
Well here's the other problem that most people don't know about. Although I would word some things a little differently, the "rough translation" is basically accurate. But look how much longer it is than the Japanese original. It takes twice as much space to say something in English as it does in Japanese - at least with text that is originally Japanese, because of character and grammar differences. Therefore an accurate translation ends up being long as fuck compared to the original

[Anonymous No.4753176]

>>4753076
All I can gather from this is that Fire Emblem is boring as shit no matter how you translate it.

[Anonymous No.4753205]

>>4753176
well this is another one of the subtleties of language differences... note the line about "it looked like you were trying to finish it off"
English grammar puts the "finish it off" at the end of the phrase, but in Japanese "todome wo sasou" comes at the very beginning of the line so the impact is more abrupt and it's more of a shock and much funnier that way.
if you read the line in English I agree it's pretty dull but in Japanese it's much funnier, which is one of the issues that we have, in that it can be a literally 100% accurate translation in terms of meaning yet still lose the timing and flow that drama and humor rely on.

[Anonymous No.4753218]

>people acting like Japanese is untranslatable and needs to be replaced with fanfiction because someone offering a rough accurate translation of a completely rewritten line in an official translation used slightly wonky English
Every
Fucking
Time

[Anonymous No.4753261]

>>4753218
Unless you can read Japanese and English fluently you will never see how much better the original Japanese is compared to the "rough accurate translation"
since learning Japanese I have never seen a translation that was not enormously inferior to the original.
But that goes both ways you see, because Japanese people who can understand English often complain about the shit quality of Japanese dubs of American movies. It's always stilted and unnatural, even I can pick it up. I've also noticed serious plot changing mistakes in the Japanese dubs of some recent major Hollywood movies but that's a different issue.
What is the root cause of this isn't that Japanese is untranslateable, it's that Japanese and English are very different in many ways and there is enormous compromise in even "perfect" translations - and I use that word because most of the people who talk about "perfect" translations cannot understand the original language and think that just because every word in 聖帝サウザー's 究極奥義 is translated exactly as it appears in the dictionary then it is totally top quality despite the word combination sounding totally badass in Japanese and totally idiotic in English.
Another example from the same series, did you know "Hokuto no Ken" doesn't mean "Fist of the North Star"? It means "FIST OF THE BIG DIPPER".
Which of these sounds better to you? Personally if I were walking around a 90's video rental place I would never pick up a VHS tape of something called "Fist of the Big Dipper" because it sounds like some kind of weird gay porn

[Anonymous No.4753265]

>>4751893
Magus is actually the word for his title (as in a class or job). As a title it's used very rarely and all are ways that aren't notable at all (and desu in a pretty crappy way, as the title is first used by the protags who never even knew it was a thing), but Slattery used it much more than intended.

This was his warped way of attempting to fix Magus's original name being a demon, and the mystics being demons. It didn't work.

[Anonymous No.4753301]

>>4753261
That's the case with all translations from anything. The point was that these threads always devolve into retards screeching that since "But staves and medicine are precious things, right?" is pretty shitty English, there's LITERALLY NO OTHER WAY TO TRANSLATE other than replacing the line with "...", because that's what the official translation did and they treat it as an either-or issue.

[Anonymous No.4753306]

>>4753205
That's why you have to rewrite it. You can't put a Japanese comedy sketch into a language that doesn't have the same traditions or expectations or grammar structure. It ends up being a joke written backwards.

Just look at Liz and Ard in Wild Arms 2, Liz is completely incomprehensible because he expresses himself solely through the use of historical Japanese poetry forms, but the translator just said "this is obviously supposed to be gibberish" and transliterates it all.

There's nothing wrong with localization, because only a complete idiot thinks a game written in two different languages should be the same game. It's written for different brains.

[Anonymous No.4753307]

>>4753265
I mean there's absolutely no reason not to just call him Magic Lord or Wizard King.

[Anonymous No.4753441]

>>4753306
If you're translating a comedy sketch, you're doing it for people that are most likely familiar with Japanese comedy in the first place and want to understand what the comedy actually is. It's a lot different from translating some piece of media that just happens to have a random sketch in it somewhere.

[Anonymous No.4754137]

>>4752853
English is my second language. But I suppose it is pointless if I don't know Japanese, right?

>>4752860
>>4752875
>Maybe you should use a real example if you want to be taken seriously.
Like I said earlier, The Simpsons have a lot of pop culture references Latin Americans simply don't understand. As a consequence, these have to be adapted for the Latin American market. And believe me: it is jarring as hell to see Homer talking about Mexican celebrities. While not a Mexican myself, I suppose they must find it odd too.

>You're literally arguing against your own argument here.
Not really, because I was specifically talking about one thing the image is useful for: that these type of translations are weird as hell.

>>4753086
>Yet he was bitching about fan translators adding jokes about William Shatner in his next post.
I wasn't, though? You are saying that yourself.

I only said that references to Western culture in a Japanese videogame is jarring. I said nothing about "fan translations" at all. That the image happens to be from a fan translation doesn't change the fact: that kind of stuff is jarring, period. Be it an official Square translation or a fan "translation" (apparently if I don't put this in quotes, people will bitch about me referring to J2e's "translation" as an actual translation).

>>4753164
Spanish is my native language, English is my second language. So yes, I have experience in "translating", if you can call it that.

These discussions would be much better if people didn't put words in my mouth and actually bothered to understand what I'm saying. I certainly don't understand what everyone else is arguing for, but it isn't that hard considering their arguments boil down to

>DO YOU EVEN SECOND LANGUAGE???
>BUT DO YOU EVEN JAPANESE???

[Anonymous No.4754245]

>>4754137
anon part of becoming an adult means realizing that there is literally never ever a time when typing in all caps is acceptable or effective

[Anonymous No.4754467]

>>4754245
In this case, however, it is both acceptable and effective.

English and Japanese are not the only two languages to exist, and thus a discussion around translation has no reason to revolve around these two languages exclusively.

[Anonymous No.4754620]

>>4754137
Spanish and English are close enough that the translation between them is not really comparable between Japanese and English
even Chinese is easier to translate because it uses the same word order and logical structure as English, whereas Japanese is reversed. Try to translate a long rambling speech by a corporate executive where he goes through a paragraph-length run-on sentence and doesn't get to an actual verb until the last line of the paragraph and you will see how difficult things can get, and then you show your translation to the Japanese client and he's mad because the subtitles don't match the speech line for line
I have been in this situation and it makes me want to put a bullet in my brain
but hardcore monolingual video game localization connoisseurs in this thread will surely insist that it's because I'm a shitty translator

[Anonymous No.4754669]

>>4754620
It's very true. I have a hard time translating certain terms from Spanish to English and viceversa, and like you said

>Spanish and English are close enough that the translation between them is not really comparable between Japanese and English
But I guess you must be a certified Japanese speaker in order to say "translating is not easy", because pretty much everyone here implies otherwise, and there are no such things as puns, specific terms, references, jokes, and the like that can get lost in translation.

No sir, "What a cat dude" makes as much sense to an American as "Qué tipo gato" makes to someone from my country.

[Anonymous No.4754671]

>>4753301

This thread has been that from the start and I cannot believe it's still here. It goes round and round but all you're left with is the same few illiterate morons screeching at each other, pulling ad-hominems out of their ass (like >>4754245) and other reaching no conclusions. It needs a quick, merciful death.

[Anonymous No.4754696]

>>4753089

Nintendo Treehouse in general goes for faux Woosley, I agree that the pic was a bad example.

[Anonymous No.4754804]

>>4754669
It's true that translating any language to any other language can be difficult. But you get additional layers of difficulty added on as the languages become more and more different from each other

[Anonymous No.4754834]

>e-celeb kiddies pretending that FF6 was a bad translation

For an official SNES translation, that was literally as good as they got. Go play Illusion of Gaia if you want to see a typical translation.

[Anonymous No.4755430]

>>4754137
>I only said that references to Western culture in a Japanese videogame is jarring.

There's lots of Japanese video games with references to western culture, you dumbass. Just because nobody outside your country has heard of your local celebrities doesn't mean American celebrities are unknown outside burgerland.

[Anonymous No.4755457]

>>4755430
>your country isn't the center of the world
>mine is
Daily reminder Star Wars isn't that well known in China, and that was one major reason why the latest one bombed there (couldn't ride on brand recognition from the cameos, and the rest was unremarkable)

[Anonymous No.4755491]

>>4755430
>There's lots of Japanese video games with references to western culture
No shit. But I'm guessing those references were understood by the Japanese population, whereas making a reference to something like "Married... with Children" wouldn't make it into a Japanese game.

Also

>Just because nobody outside your country has heard of your local celebrities
Funny considering the entire world knows about Diego Maradona and Lionel Messi.

[Anonymous No.4755501]

>>4755491
>>4755430
Moreover, just because the world knows about Diego Maradona and Lionel Messi doesn't make it okay to mention Tato Bores in a Japanese videogame. The Japanese population won't know who the fuck that guy is, despite him being one of the most known comedians in our country's history.

Going back to the J2e example: I, for one, had no idea who the hell William Shatner was until I googled his name. But I know who Steven Spielberg is, because some references are much more easily understood by the entire world.

[Anonymous No.4755521]

I have a friend who prefers Woosley's scripts because he feels they add personality to otherwise flat writing. He criticizes ports and re-releases because they don't use Woosley's work and terms.

I don't care one way or another.

[Anonymous No.4755526]

>>4755457
I'm not even American. Do you seriously have your head so far up your ass that you think nips haven't heard of Hollywood actors or major American pop stars just because they haven't heard of some random Mexican comedians?

[Anonymous No.4755536]

>>4755526
>implying chinese people won't recognize the characters from the toys they made when they were children

[Anonymous No.4755541]

>Japanese version of LttP has a reference to M.C. Hammer
>burger release removes it
>hurr durr references to Western culture in a Japanese videogame is jarring

[Anonymous No.4755558]

>>4755457
Star Wars is well known in Japan though. It's not "jarring" to see Star Wars references in Japanese video games just because "it's western".

[Anonymous No.4755575]

I'm pretty sure the biggest tv show in japan is still The fucking Big Bang Theory

[Anonymous No.4755605]

>>4755541
>>4755558
>It's not "jarring" to see Star Wars references in Japanese video games just because "it's western".
It's true. It becomes jarring when the reference is so obscure (by comparison) only the country it is from is aware of the reference. Case in point: everybody knows who Diego Maradona is, but not everybody knows who Tato Bores is. And both of them are Argentinians.

Most people around the world know about Star Wars, but the % of people who know who portrays the lead dude in Star Trek is much smaller. At that point, you pretty much have to be American or someone who watches Star Trek to know who William Shatner is.

[Anonymous No.4755612]

>>4755605
>At that point, you pretty much have to be American or someone who watches Star Trek to know who William Shatner is.
Just because nitpickers gonna nitpick: you can also be someone who is old enough to have heard of him, like my parents who are in their sixties. My friends, on the other hand, have never heard of Shatner.

[Anonymous No.4755634]

>>4755575
>media in Japan today is the same as media in Japan 20 years ago

[Anonymous No.4755749]

>>4755634
See >>4755541

[Anonymous No.4756635]

>>4755491
>Diego Maradona and Lionel Messi.
I have literally never heard these names before

[Anonymous No.4756640]

>>4755575
I have been living in Japan since well before that show premiered in the USA and I have never seen it on tv or heard a single Japanese person mention it even once

[Anonymous No.4756764]

>>4756635
Yes, the unknown, irrelevant, obscure as fuck sport known as soccer, or fake football played with... FEET. The horror. Who even cares about some third world shithole fake sport stars?

[Anonymous No.4756917]

>>4755749
"Media" encompasses music, films, TV, amongst others. Just because today's most popular show in Japan is The Big Bang Theory doesn't mean that western TV shows were just as prevalent in 1995.

With music is different. If the song is good, it will get everywhere.

[Anonymous No.4756920]

>>4756635
Makes sense if you are a burger. If they are bad at a certain sport, it doesn't exist to them. Much easier to keep the "Americans are good at everything!" facade.

[Anonymous No.4757417]

>>4756764
>>4756920
>watching spectator sports is something everyone should do and if you don't do it you're a loser
don't make me say it

[Anonymous No.4757584]

>>4757417
I've never watched a basketball match and I still know about Michael Jordan. I've never watched an F1 race and I still know about Michael Schumacher. Same with baseball and Babe Ruth.

Americans shun out every sport they are not good at. I'm not even asking you to name what club does Messi play for: if you don't know who Lionel Messi is, you must be a burger or belong to a 3rd world shithole country with no TV or Internet access.

[Anonymous No.4757596]

>>4757584
I don't know who Michael Schumacher is either, the only footballer I can think of off the top of my head is Pele.
Perhaps my personal heroes are a different sort of man than yours.

[Anonymous No.4757718]

>>4757596
>I don't know who Michael Schumacher is either
Burgers, everyone.

[Anonymous No.4757801]

Objectively speaking, the quality of his work is no better or worse than any cheap no-name translator who's ever been involved with the industry. The only reason he has such a dedicated cult following is because he was commissioned to work with a major developer like Squaresoft for which people have a lot of nostalgia.

But yeah, Ted Woolsey is an unprofessional hack.

[Anonymous No.4758136]

>>4757801
That and the fact that he was one of the few "good" names of the day.

At that time it was somewhat hard to find someone who worked as well at getting things to read well outside of Working Designs or possibly NIntendo, as evidenced by FFVII. Accuracy or even making things coherent wasn't as high of a priority as "just get it out to Burgerland."

[Anonymous No.4758301]

>>4757718
>if you don't follow bread and circuses you are a stupid burger
want to know how I know you are a lemming

[Anonymous No.4758331]

>>4758301
Is that pic sarcastic or satirical? Because the "alt-right" are associated with people who believe the government is poisoning their water so they're unlikely to believe in the system
The left is much more loyal to the system and government, it's just that the current political party goes against their own and so they feel like they rebel against it, even though if the left had won, they would be acting exactly like the lemmings in your pic
The concept of lemmings in society is something that has less to do with politics and just the human condition of following the leader that you align with and caters to you, even in simpler situations like making decisions or sharing opinions and views
>inb4 keep /pol/ crap in /pol/ and these posts are deleted

[Anonymous No.4758343]

>>4758331
You didn't just drink the kool-aid.
You became one with it.

[Anonymous No.4758354]

>>4758343
Elaborate

[Anonymous No.4758361]

>>4758331
The concept of the lemming isn't exclusively political, but the open and blatant politicization of the lemming mindset as a bulwark to shore up the positions of the ruling elite goes back at the very least to the late Roman Empire when Juvenal coined the term.
Pierce called them lemmings, while Rockwell who was a better man than Pierce in every way referred to them as "the sports fans, television-watchers and comic book readers"
MacArthur warned of the military-industrial complex, but our failure to heed his warning has allowed it to evolve into the military-industrial-corporate complex.
regarding the "circuses" of video games, they're also a distraction from more important things, and although I enjoy the nostalgia of looking at this board if I could go back and prevent my younger self from playing games in the first place I would gladly do it.
>inb4 user was banned for this post

[Anonymous No.4758362]

>>4758361
>military-industrial-corporate
sorry that was a brain doot I meant to say military-industrial-entertainment which is a far far worse development

[Anonymous No.4758383]

>>4758354
not him but I think the part about
>The left is much more loyal to the system and government
shows that you are looking at things from a very short-term perspective.
The 1960's radical left, themselves the heirs of early 1900's Bolshevism, have infiltrated all aspects of the system from academia to government to journalism, and this is why "the left" is loyal to "the system" - because it is their system.
meanwhile their puppets the neocons pretend to oppose them while in reality they are draining first-world countries of their treasure in order to bomb the kings and princes of the third world and break down all existing power structures, while at the same time exploiting third world labor to drain the west of the technological and engineering abilities that allows them to build their nations, and now we have come to the stage of unlimited third world immigration into the first world to destroy any remaining sense of national, racial and ethnic identity. Even natural gender identity is being attacked now with dozens of artificially created genders and a denial of basic biological reality.
On top of this all, there is one ethnic group and culture which is put on a pedestal and hailed as the perpetually innocent, pure, and divinely chosen. It's almost like the plot of a bad video game.
If I'm not banned yet I likely will be after this post, but please allow me to remind you of anon's timeless words more relevant now than ever:

>If only you knew how bad things really are.

[Anonymous No.4758585]

>>4758301
>Whomever provides
>Whomever
>Whom as a nominative

Glad to know Daddy's tuition wasn't wasted.

[Anonymous No.4758896]

>>4758301
Imagine being this assblasted you resort to meme pics to deflect attention from your pop culture ignorance.

[Anonymous No.4759125]

>>4744549
https://legendsoflocalization.com/culex-is-quite-different-in-japanese-super-mario-rpg/

At least the Japanese has some charm to it, other than displaying the villain's true motivations. The localization manages to be both generic and uninteresting, but people still remember and quote the fuck out of it because it sounded "smart" and nostalgia did the rest.

[Anonymous No.4759324]

>>4759125
Japanese texts or correct translations of them can't have charm, anon.
That's a physical propriety unique to loose localizations.

[Anonymous No.4759327]

>>4759324
>Japanese texts can't have charm, anon.

How can you say that when Japanese text literally reads itself once you're accustomed?

[Anonymous No.4759494]

>>4759125
The localization reads much better.

It is a shame that the 2D joke got lost, though.

[Anonymous No.4759531]

>>4759494
The Japanese in the screenshots is much better then any of the English versions
Japanese stuff that sounds so corny in English often sounds much much better in Japanese
>>4759324
>completely missing the all the points and pretending to be stupid
what you should take away from this discussion is that all translations suck, even the amazing weeaboo translations that "preserve the original content". Because they don't. If you don't read the original Japanese then you don't know the real story, regardless of how many times the shrine maiden waived her little stick over the exact high-quality literal translation of the game text
>>4759327
the guy you're talking to is one of those weebs who plays through 3 different translated versions of a 200-hour-game and fancies himself a connoisseur of subtitled anime but won't bother to crack a book and try learning the fucking language which would ironically take less time than picking apart the various localized releases of Puzzle Fighter 486DX2/66 to compare the different iterations of Chun-Li's victory taunt in an attempt to piece together an idea of what the original Japanese text said as through you're trying to reconstruct the lost books of the Bible from the Dead Sea Scrolls or something

[Anonymous No.4759540]

>>4744556
>Ted woolsey ams evul
>I R speaked english good
>am phonpoter
Die, pig.

[Anonymous No.4759559]

>>4759531
Yeah, no doubt about it. It just reinforces my view that the original is the original, and you can't translate a game wanting it to sound 99% like the original. It just comes across as "odd", so you have to rephrase as best as you can.

If you can manage to keep all the important info, fantastic. That's what translators should strive for.

[Anonymous No.4759564]

>>4759559
>If you can manage to keep all the important info, fantastic.

>be a professional pizza-maker
>you'll have to make as good as a pizza as you can
>if you can use tomato and cheese, fantastic.

[Anonymous No.4759580]

ITT: Autistic weeaboos angry at translators who translate "nakama" as "friend."

[Anonymous No.4759583]

>>4759564
That's a stupid analogy.

Let me give you a better one: imagine the script is a film, and the language is an aspect ratio. Japanese is a widescreen TV, and English is a SDTV.

A Japanese film is specifically made for Japanese TVs and Japanese TVs only. You can shoehorne that film into English TVs, but you will end up with a wildly distorted image. It's up to you if you want to play watch it that way, or demand that the film is reshoot in standard definition. Content will be lost: you can fit much more info on a bigger screen. But it's all the same to me if I watch the 16:9 film on my 4:3 screen: everything will be so squished together I won't see any of that detail I'm supposedly "not losing".

I, personally, would rather have films specifically tailored for the TV I'm using, because watching 16:9 films on a 4:3 screen is annoying as hell, and literal translations are annoying as hell.

[Anonymous No.4759617]

>>4759540
>this is the kind of retard that defends woolsey and other shit localizations
kek

[Anonymous No.4759639]

>>4759559
Congratulations, anon, you discovered how languages work. This is why translations are done by humans and why it's considered an art. If it was possible to translate 1:1 and end up with literally the same text in a different language, machine translators would be able to do it. A translation is always going to be an approximation.

[Anonymous No.4759717]

>>4759559
>>4759564
>have a foreign visitor who you have to treat to lunch
>ask him where he wants to go
>his translator says "he wants to eat a hot dog
>go get hot dogs
>foreign visitor is upset when I bring him hot dogs
>find out from a completely different person that he wanted to eat a pizza
>translator shrugs his shoulders and goes "Hey, the message got across that he wanted to eat, I did my job"

[Anonymous No.4759747]

>>4759717
>foreign visitor comes over to lunch
>interpreter introduces him as Esty Dee
>interpreter translates everything visitor says as memes
>interpreter flat out doesn't translate long sentences from visitor
>interpreter rants to you and visitor about how problematic he is and how his culture doesn't fly in OUR US of A
>interpreter insist that visitor eat jelly filled donuts
>interpreter insults and mocks you for thinking that maybe he's not being very considerate of visitor and what he truly wants
>interpreter tells you to just learn visitor's language and go to his country yourself
>interpreter says he's not censoring visitor, he's making him more appropriate for you and the west
>interpreter follows visitor back home and prevents him from patting his wife and children on the head
>interpreter uses smoke machine to censor visitor's wife's body when they're about to have sex
This is a bit more accurate to today's localizations

[Anonymous No.4759750]

>>4759639
>Congratulations, anon, you discovered how languages work.
Don't tell me, tell that to the retards who insist you can keep absolutely everything from one language to another.

>>4759717
Good job at picking an example of something the translator could have easily translated with no difficulties, thereby disregarding the issues of translating things that aren't just as easily translated.

"Me encanta la concha de tu madre" could both mean "I love your mother's cunt" or "I love your mother's seashell". But saying "I love your mother's cunt" in English can in no way also mean "I love your mother's seashell".

Chances are that joke will have to be removed or replaced with something else entirely (like "pussy", meaning both cunt and cat). Which isn't that much of a problem, unless the dialogue was also accompanied with a depiction of a seashell.

[Anonymous No.4759763]

>>4759750
>>4759717
Also

>translator shrugs his shoulders and goes "Hey, the message got across that he wanted to eat, I did my job"
Pray tell: how would you translate Kaeru, the Chrono Trigger character?

[Anonymous No.4759770]

>>4759763
You mean the name? Translating it as anything other than "Frog" is retarded, the entire point is that he calls himself Frog because he's a frog now.

[Anonymous No.4759794]

>>4759763
Are you >>4752303 by any chance?

[Anonymous No.4759876]

>>4759770
But you acknowledge the double meaning was lost, right?

[Anonymous No.4759901]

>>4759794
Yup. If you want to discuss something I've said before, don't bother. I don't feel like defending a poorly phrased argument.

[Anonymous No.4759959]

>>4759876
There's no double meaning, anon. "Kaeru" can mean "to go back", but that has nothing to do with why he named himself that. It's literally just "I'm a frog so call me Frog".

[Anonymous No.4759983]

>>4759959
I thought it meant "to transform"?

[Anonymous No.4759995]

>>4759983
It can mean that too, yeah. But I really don't get why you think there's supposed to be an intended double meaning there. Do you think Woolsey should've made Frog French because "frog" can mean "Frenchman" in English?

[Anonymous No.4760031]

>>4759717
>>4759750
It also is an example of a simple and completely functional use of language that is not creative, artistic, or humorous in any way.

[Anonymous No.4760109]

>>4759959
Nah it doesn’t mean to go back it means 変える “to change” and it’s a pun on his character and his name that he changed into a frog.

[Anonymous No.4760115]

>>4760109
Think like this 蛙に変える”kaeru ni kaeru” meaning “change into a frog” not 帰る as in to go home or leave or to go back

[Anonymous No.4760137]

>>4760109
It's not a pun, anon. Why do you think it's a pun?

[Anonymous No.4760142]

>>4760115
God strike me down for a triple post but it like the Japanese sentence 箸を持て橋の端まで走ってきてください。『はしをもてはしのはしまではしってきてください』”hashi wo motte hashi no hashi made hashitte kite kudsai” it’s the same, or sometimes similar, sound with different meanings and most of the time it is done intentionally like my above joke with キムチ and 気持ち

[Anonymous No.4760148]

>>4760137
I’ve lived in Japan for 3 years, all my friends here in New York are Japanese, and I’ve worked at Japanese companies for over 6 years; I’m also a varacious consumer of authentic Japanese media. So I feel pretty confident to say that I have some level of insight to their sense of humor and how they use same and similar sounding words as puns and jokes; whether intentional or not.

[Anonymous No.4760156]

>>4760148
>whether intentional or not
>or not
Keyword right there.
It's possible for a fictional frog to be named Frog without HAHAHA "TO FROG" MEANS TO TRANSFORM AND HE'S A HUMAN TRANSFORMED INTO A FROG SO IT'S A PUN. Coincidences exist, and not everything has to be a pun or have some sort of double meaning.

[Anonymous No.4760165]

>>4760148
Also, here's an actual example for you.
In Japan, there's two super long-running Pokemon manga series that both started when the original games came out, Pocket Monsters and Pocket Monsters Special. Both of them started by adapting the first games, so they both have a protagonist named Red and his rival Green. When the third Pokemon game, the Blue Version, came out, they both introduced a character named Blue.

In Pocket Monsters, Blue is a super gloomy guy and the manga really beats you over the head with "his name is Blue and he's blue. It's a pun, get it?" In Pocket Monsters Special, Blue is a not-at-all-gloomy girl, and there's absolutely no indication the name is meant to be a pun on anything. She's just named Blue because that's what the game is named, nothing else.

Just because a word CAN have a double meaning doesn't mean it always does.

[Anonymous No.4760178]

>>4760148
Gomenasai, my name is Ken-Sama.

I’m a 27 year old American Otaku (Anime fan for you gaijins). I draw Anime and Manga on my tablet, and spend my days perfecting my art and playing superior Japanese games. (Disgaea, Final Fantasy, Persona series)

I train with my Katana every day, this superior weapon can cut clean through steel because it is folded over a thousand times, and is vastly superior to any other weapon on earth. I earned my sword license two years ago, and I have been getting better every day.

I speak Japanese fluently, both Kanji and the Osaka dialect, and I write fluently as well. I know everything about Japanese history and their bushido code, which I follow 100%

When I get my Japanese visa, I am moving to Tokyo to attend a prestigious High School to learn more about their magnificent culture. I hope I can become an animator for Studio Ghibli or a game designer!

I own several kimonos, which I wear around town. I want to get used to wearing them before I move to Japan, so I can fit in easier. I bow to my elders and seniors and speak Japanese as often as I can, but rarely does anyone manage to respond.

Wish me luck in Japan!

[Anonymous No.4760206]

guys, stop fighting for a second. you're all ignoring the true evil of translation in this world...

[Anonymous No.4760506]

>>4760148
there are so many homophones in Japanese and the fairy tale idea of magically turning into a frog is well known in Japanese culture as well.
I understand what you are saying and yes it's possible to make a pun about it but I'm not really convinced that his name itself is intended to be a pun because if every homophone were a deliberate pun it would have no end
t. been living in japan a long time

[Anonymous No.4760536]

>>4751129
Sci-fi/fantasy writers

>Hi, I just made up this new word because I'm terrible at communicating what I actually mean to say
>No I don't have asperger's, why does everyone keep asking me that?

[Anonymous No.4761017]

>>4760156
As the user that asked the "how would you translate it" question, you are absolutely right. But we won't know unless we ask the person who named Kaeru that way.

I for one believe that, even if Kaeru been an intentional pun, it should have been translated to Frog. I doubt Kaeru named himself after "to change" as opposed to "frog", even if the author himself may have chosen Kaeru as a pun. And ultimately, the English speaking world won't give a shit about a (possible?) pun that only makes sense for Japanese-speaking audiences.

[Anonymous No.4761089]

>>4760178
Sarcasm, bait, or just a really pathetic weeaboo?

[Anonymous No.4761267]

>>4761089

[Anonymous No.4761362]

>>4760206
this

[Anonymous No.4761962]

>>4761089
Is this your second day here?

[Anonymous No.4762417]

>>4761089
You fail to recognize an old and common pasta? Really embarrassing, my man.

[Anonymous No.4762754]

>>4744556
Adding to what other anons said, attitudes in general were different. Woolsey explained how games were just seen as another toy for kids and translation was basically higher ups throwing the game at you and telling you to have it done in a month. A lot of the bad translations you see from the period can probably just be attributed to straight up apathy from executives.

>>4745517
Woolsey admitted that he had to blow up 40% of the plot in Secret of Mana and working on that nearly killed him. He also only had 30ish days to translate Chrono Trigger, most of the games he worked on had to be done within 30 days, on top of dealing with space/memory limitations and NoA's shitty censorship.

Frankly, it's a miracle Woolsey's translations are as accurate/good as they are. Got a lot of respect for the guy, and sometimes his changes are for the better, especially regarding Kefka.

[Anonymous No.4762947]

>>4750417
>GBA
The GBA one was censored even in the jap version
. One example was removing the guards punching Celes.

[Anonymous No.4764173]

>>4762947
One example? That's the only example.

The others were unique to the NA version when Square picked and chose what naughty bits to leave naked or not to keep their rating.

>>4762754
>long explanation why translation conditions were shit
>even mentions censorship, lack of consistency and review
>"Woosley's translations are accurate/good"
???

[Anonymous No.4764509]

>>4744549
Outside of the context of his working conditions, demand, pace and other elements? So-so translations with lots of hits and miss when it comes to context.
Within the context? This guy is a fucking genius.
Also, remember the issue of memory storage - you can only have this many dialogues in those games and as it turns out, Japanese simply is capable of cramming more context with less characters than when you need to use Latin alphabet.

[Anonymous No.4764517]

>>4764173
>No time
>No support
>No resources
>Translation is still workable despite all that
Not him, but how hard it is to understand?

[N2 No.4764609]

>>4744609
>>4744963
>>4745005
>>4759540
I didn't think that it was possible to be this new.

[Anonymous No.4764627]

>>4760206
>I don't feel so good ....

[Anonymous No.4764653]

>>4744549

Theodore is an unfathomable transliterator? This is further than belief.

[Anonymous No.4765052]

>>4764173
If you are going to quote me, at least do it properly.

>it's a miracle Woolsey's translations are as accurate/good as they are
>as they are
>given the constraints he faced

And yet, despite having a month to translate text heavy games AND had to deal with NoA's censorship/space limitations, his translations are still fairly memorable, even if they weren't 100% accurate. And they weren't full of 90s memes like in Working Design's stuff either. Given such conditions, you kind of have to respect him. Super Mario RPG is probably the best English script on the SNES.

[Anonymous No.4765071]

>>4765052
>I'm going to keep moving the goalposts until I'm right

Just stop before you embarrass yourself any further. This isn't even about defending Woolsey, it's about maintaining your ego because you can't stand to be contradicted.

[Anonymous No.4765181]

>>4765071
>>4764517

[Anonymous No.4765193]

>>4765071
>moving goalposts
>fails to address any points beyond lol idc
seriously end yourself. I bet you think honorifics should be a thing in localizations too.

[Anonymous No.4765318]

>>4746938
At least they got the GBA FF5 script right. Having a little fun over being a stickler for "accuracy" probably helps.