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/vr/ - Retro Games


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4743453 No.4743453 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

What is /vr/'s opinion on reproductions, specifically rarer games?

>> No.4743548

I don't think there is a point to them. Just get a flashcart already.

>> No.4743558

>>4743548
This. If you're willing to go the fake cart route, why not get the fake cart that can hold everything?

>> No.4743573
File: 64 KB, 864x521, il_fullxfull.955030806_1fyd.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4743573

Thoughts on this, and Star Fox 2, and other games that were never properly released?

>> No.4743578

>>4743558
Because they can look nice.

>> No.4743583

>>4743453
>>4743573
>I can not think for myself and I must ask anons what I should think
It's simply a euphemism of "bootleg" so what do you think? C'mon anon, it's not that hard to use your brain.

>> No.4743586

I got the Holy Diver set from Castlemania, but it's probably the only time I'll ever get something like that. There's no reason not to have a flashcart instead unless you really like the box art of the repro or you really enjoy putting in a specific cartridge.

>> No.4743587

As long as it's labeled as a repro when being sold then I could care less

>> No.4743613

>>4743453
"Artisanal" bullshit for millennials, women, and other types of fruits who care more about their failure shelf aesthetics than games. Just emulate or use a flashc... yknow what, no, just emulate.

>> No.4743617

>>4743453
acceptable as long as they look different from the originals

pceworks discs are different but the cases are the same, which is problematic

>> No.4743618

>>4743453
I don't understand it at all, but then I emulate these days. If someone else gets a kick out if them though more power.

>> No.4743634

I just really wanted an SNES version of Dual Orb 2.

>> No.4743640 [DELETED] 

>>4743548
>DUDE GET LE FLASHCART LMAOOO
Can mods PLEASE start taking action against these fucking shills already? Every god damned thread I gotta seee these idiots shilling their overglorified emulator they paid $100+ for fucking shut up we get it you made a terrible purchase and now have to delude yourself it was a good idea go somewhere else like hmmmmmm reddit maybe for that!

>> No.4743659

>>4743453
Personally I think getting a translated version of a Japan only game on a repo flash cart has some value

>> No.4743665

>>4743640
My damn god man, I dont know if you are just trolling or just a damn idiot, Flashcarts are not emulators.
The special chips games on the other hand are in fact emulated by the fpga, so i guess you are saying that.
btw the super analoge nt is a fucking glorified emulator box

>> No.4743672 [DELETED] 

>>4743640
>REEEE STOP IT, MUH PLASTIC ISN’T OBSOLETE!
Hey, why don’t you stay mad? Also nice racism, reported :)

>> No.4743674

>>4743548
I've heard those don't run everything though. Is it a big margin or just a couple specific titles? I feel like that's something worth waiting on till it actually gets good enough.

>> No.4743675
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4743675

>>4743453
I make repros. I think if you are making a repro of a rare game that's perfectly fine as long as you're not trying to dupe people. I either use an alternate label or have "reproduction" printed somewhere on it, and I also will often use unique colored cartridges. Here's some of the carts I've made. If it's a game that never got a retail release I am more likely to use a standard cart, but not always.

Another form of reproduction cart is to make a translation cart. You can pick up a lot of RPGs in Japan for only about $5 and then replace the MaskROM with a translated EPROM or TSOP flash chip using an adapter, which Is what I did for the Final Fantasy SNES trilogy and Chrono Trigger. I only paid about $5 for each of those carts on eBay, which on the SNES is sports-game-cheap. It's immediately clear that the game has been modified but it also carries with it a slightly increased level of authenticity versus just a straight reproduction cartridge.

I think repros are a very exciting aspect of retro gaming, again, as long as people are not using them as counterfeits being passed off as authentic. If you sell reproductions they should be priced fairly and the buyer should know what they are getting, including what quality wirework you've done. A poorly done repro with spaghetti wire and hot glue everywhere in a beat up old cartridge is not worth the same as one that's tidily done and uses high quality materials. I am a fan of letting people see what's inside if they are interested in buying.

>> No.4743697

>>4743675
Can you show us the insides of one?

>> No.4743701
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4743701

>>4743697

>> No.4743704

>>4743674
It depends on the flashcart. It's usually only a handful of titles. Some don't support special chips at all.

>> No.4743706

>>4743675
Castlevania III can still be bought for 25$ or less. Was getting a repro for that really necessary?

>> No.4743715
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4743715

>>4743706
It's actually the famicom version, translated and put on another cartridge that used Konami's audio expansion chip. That was a pretty challenging cart to do since I had to move the audio chip to the back of the board in order to fit everything iside, and I had to file down some spots on the cartridge and the board to make everything fit. In the end it turned out really nice though.

>> No.4743719

There's only about 5 games in interested in the that my flash cart can't play. For these cases I'd consider getting a repro.

>> No.4743727

>>4743453
It's a nice way to absorb and enjoy the artwork, booklet and decorate your shelf.

But if you just want to play the game, just emulate it or flash cart it.

>> No.4743736

>>4743453
Many moons ago, I bought Tetris DS as a known bootleg rather than pay the inflated prices due to it being out of print and being jacked up since Nintendo tax, and I'm still happy to have access to it whenever I want.

As long as it's clear it is a repro and not trying to pass itself off at all as the original, then it has a niche market to fill. Stuff like nabbing an old Sega Genesis for $20 or so, then nabbing something like Wily Wars for $8 off eBay is a great way to break a system in, with perhaps multicarts being the only better option than reasonably priced repros. At the end of the day, it's whatever makes the person happy, since at least having options is better than being stuck paying hundreds of dollars for some titles due to perceived rarity or online trackers going nuts since a youtuber suddenly brought attention to an otherwise common and cheap title.

>>4743640
That anon isn't wrong, though, since anything a repro can do is usually done just as well on a flash cart. It's cost effective and saves shelf space, on top of being able to patch games if a revision happens without resorting to buying another repro. There have been rom hacks that were unbeatable due to various bugs and the like.

>> No.4743746

>>4743701
ok that sticker on the chips is a nice touch.

>> No.4743758

>>4743453
Personally I don't care how other adults spend their money. buy them or dont. I don't do repro but I use flashcarts to play games I don't have and refuse to enrich resellers by buying.

>> No.4743760

I've got no problem with it. Just don't sell them for non-repro prices.

>> No.4743763

>>4743640
Overcooked pasta there weak sauce. 0/10 but here's your (You).

>> No.4743779

>>4743573
I got a SNES Classic version Star Fox 2 repro. Kind of redundant now that my SD2SNES can play it but it's still a nice professionally put together cartridge, the ROM chip is actually soldered to the board rather than dangling from wires like many repros.

>> No.4743783

>>4743453
I tried buying Lobo for the SNES, but they no longer sell reproduction copies of that now. The price was way too high on ebay. I would prefer to buy it for $20, not $300.

>> No.4743831

>>4743453
I think anything that takes money out of the pockets of hipster bandwagoners so they can't use it to drive up the prices of original hardware by overpaying on ebay is great. So overpriced bootlegs are awesome.

>> No.4743858 [DELETED] 

>>4743548
SERIOUSLY?! YOU DELETE MY POSTS BUT NOT THESE BLATANT FUCKING SHILLS?! HEY JANITOR! NEWSFLASH! NOT BUYING BANNERS TO ADVERTISE YOUR SHIT IS AGAINST THE RULES YOU FUCKING MORON!

>> No.4743863 [DELETED] 

>>4743548
DELETE THIS POST NOW! NOW NOW NOW! DO YOUR JOB PROPERLY DELETE THIS FUCKING RULE BREAKING POST NOW FUCKING DO IT PUSSY OR ARE YOU KRIKZZ HUH ANSWER ME ASSHOLE BY DELETING THIS STUPID ASS RULEBREAKINGPOSTNOOKOOKKOKW!

>> No.4744471

>>4743453
FUCK YEAH DUAL ORB 2

>> No.4744473

>>4743453
What game is that?

>> No.4744486
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4744486

>>4743453

For it it all boils down to honesty. If the seller is selling them AS repros and says as much in his listing and if he's selling them for a fair price, then by all means if you want one get one. I got a seiken densetsu 3 one. It's pretty neat. I didn't pay a lot for it and it even had a nice case.

If you're selling them as if they where the real deal or at a stupid high price? Then go to hell.

>> No.4744495

>>4743548
I think there is a certain art and entertainment that goes into the process of making a new box and manual. Some people go as far as putting the correct ads and safety inserts into the box.

>> No.4744515
File: 173 KB, 600x600, pat-contri-too-many-games-2018.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4744515

>>4743453
"Selling, buying or producing reproduction cartridges or labels is wrong - It is illegal, and it is literally killing the retro gaming hobby. Anyone who takes part in such activities is a scumbag and a criminal. Counterfeit and bootleg goods are against the law and no one has any right to do it. The excuse that you simply want them for your personal collection is disingenuous and impotent reasoning used by those who lack the will to track down legitimate copies like the rest of us in the collecting scene."

>> No.4744519

I enjoy making them for myself. I really like soldering and since all of my consoles are modded how I want them to be making a few repros is my fix. It’s really satisfying to get a nice clean soldering job done and make your label and everything. 10/10 hobby. Buying them is a different story. I feel they’re pretty overpriced, especially with the Chinese bootlegs being so fucking cheap. Never really got into the novelty cartridge colors shit either. I like trying to make everything as close to what you would’ve seen on a shelf in the early 90s as possible.

>> No.4744524

>>4743675
Can I buy earthbound from ye? Do you have a shop online

>> No.4744573

selling a repro of a fan translation is a dick move

>> No.4744580

>>4743453
Whats that DUAL ORB 2 going for?

>> No.4744614

>>4743453
Only extreme faggot autists are bothered by them. They look pretty cool, run well, and are nice additions to a normal person's collection. The only thing wrong with them is that they may devalue/deceive concerning a legitimate copy (ie, of a game that was already physically released before repros, such as Earthbound)

>> No.4744616

>>4744573
Why?
>inb4 emotional response like "muh translator's efforts"

>> No.4744618

>>4744515
>e-celeb attention whore's opinions on ethics and morality

>> No.4744626

>>4744515
>>4744573
>>4744616
Keep in mind that these fan translators are hypocrites if they get mad about someone selling their work. They're fucking modifying and distributing copyrighted content under their OWN NAME

>> No.4744630

>>4743675
>that ninja gaiden sticker
nice

>> No.4744646

>>4743675
You're doing nothing wrong. Never let cognitive dissonant retards get to you about this (unless you start making shitty products, that is)

>> No.4744648

>>4744515
lel get fukked pat

>> No.4744656

>>4744618
Pat the NES Cuck preaches about the evils of repros and even sent his listeners to harass another youtuber (8-Bit Guy I think.. Older guy in his 40s that makes really informative and decent videos just for fun and to help others in the hobby) just because he posted a tutorial video on how to create easy high quality repro/replacement labels for NES games. He called the guy out by name on his faggy podcast and the guy was stampeded by Pats autistic shelf collector fans for it.

He will get on a soapbox about this shit any chance he get, I even heard him go off on someone at a convention that asked him to sell a repro of Little Samson (that was marked repro in the corner of the label) and told him he "You and this kid of shit is a big part of the problem" and when the guy asked 'So you won't sign it?' He said "Absolutely not! Fuck off, okay?" Admittedly I think the guy did it as kind of a troll, but definitely did not expect that kimd of reaction, nor did any of us standing around them at the time.

Hes an arrogant douche and cocksucker. His prices are way too high and for someone who whines about how sellers at cons should haggle and give deals, I have never seen him budge less than 2 or 3 bucks on his over priced garbage. If you press him he will just tell you to get lost or that hes not runnimg a charity.

The only reason he has such a fanatical stance on repros being 100% wrong and never justified is because he knows it will take away his ability to resell his shit and diminish his e-cred for his OMG COMPLETE US set of NES dust collectors.

>> No.4744662

>>4744656
Samefag here. Typo should read:
>asked him to SIGN a repro of Little Samson
instead of SELL a repro of Little Samson

>> No.4744681

>>4744656
>>4744662
Ultimately doing it for the dramaclicks (which his dying channel desperately needs).

Also, he's clearly autistic.

>> No.4744768

If more people get to play Dual Orb 2 I'm for it.

>> No.4744848

>>4744768
What's with this shitty DUAL ORB 2 forced meme? Its a pretty good JRPG with really.cool battle scenes. At least meme with a crappy RPG like Secret of Evermore or Paladins Quest

>> No.4744872

>>4744848
Welcome to /vr/. How's you're first day going?

>> No.4744901

>>4744848
Honestly I think everyone just likes the monster truck segments. The rest of the game is good, but that is where it really shines.

>> No.4744917

>>4744656
While I absolutely agree with pretty much everything you've written here, the faggot is still correct in his opinion on repros. Maybe that shit isn't actually killing the hobby, but it sure as fuck isn't helping.

>> No.4744959

>>4744917
I think if anything it helps people who want to collect originals as it gives a nice alternative to "casuals". The average person into retro just wants to play some games from their childhood or whatever metal Jesus says a re hidden gems. The less people that are competing for a scarce commodity, the less the price is.

Now for resellers or people deluding themselves into thinking children's toys are somehow a savings or retirement plan, sure repro are pretty much the worst thing imaginable. They somehow think their worth as a human is tied to their "rare exclusive" collection, which is just sad.

>> No.4744973

>>4744848
Some faggot from Romhacking.net translated it recently and unsurprisingly attention whored here about it.

>> No.4744992

>>4744515
>It is illegal

I mean I guess that's kind of true. If we're all being honest. Don't get me wrong, Im pro repro. I just feel like we should all be a little honest when it comes to things like repros, flash carts and emulation in general.

>> No.4744996 [DELETED] 

damn nigga, is that some dual orb 2? Legit the best game I've ever played

>> No.4745000

>>4744848
Step 1 buy as many copies of unknown game as possible
Step 2 meme it on vr
Step 3 sell copies on ebay

>> No.4745002

Want to get into making my own repros, have a bunch of Japanese snes games that id love to put the translated rom onto. How do I get started?

>> No.4745006

>>4745000
Just how influential do you think our piddly corner of the internet is?

>> No.4745012

>>4744917
>. Maybe that shit isn't actually killing the hobby, but it sure as fuck isn't helping.


How the fuck is giving people another way to play the games "NOT HELPING?" There's no shortage of issues surrounding them but that mostly stems from dishonesty and trying to take people for a ride but encouraging people to play games can only be seen as a boon to the hobby. Saying otherwise is like saying anyone who didn't get a first run of a VHS movie doesn't deserve to watch it.

>> No.4745023

>>4743586
Are you me? Holy Diver is also my first and probably last repro purchase because of the multiple factors of
a) Japan-only title
b) now translated
c) with an added easy mode
d) lots of swag

>> No.4745043
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4745043

>>4744515
And yet he'll gladly buy competition cart repros (NWC?)

I guess he gets to decide for us which repros are "total evil" and which are "just fine".

All that fucker wants is his ridiculous collection to be "worth something" when he starts selling off half of it, and hates other people getting easy-to-access copies of games he wants to sell for $500+ a pop.

>> No.4745049

>>4745002
Buy a programmer like the TL866 and a bunch of adapters then prepare to shell out tonnes for 29f032/29f033 EEPROMs, 801's and other popular repro chips.

Only tip i can give is to look into the 27c322 and adapters. Hard to get working though

>> No.4745056

>>4745006
>Just how influential do you think our piddly corner of the internet is?

The internet as we know it only exists because the hacker known as 4chin created it by modifying Bob Dole's source code. I'm surprised you didn't know that, after all it was a major plot point in Dual Orb 2.

>> No.4745094

>>4744992
How is it illegal when the shit you're emulating is several decades out of print?
It's not like Nintendo is going to release Little Samson on the virtual console anytime soon, nor is it any more likely that Live a Live finally gets an official English translation either. So how exactly is it illegal when you can no longer buy the games in the first place?

>> No.4745104

>>4745094
Laws don't need to make sense to still be laws. That said I agree with the sentiment, they are dumb laws.

>> No.4745112

>>4745104
Laws also only work when people give enough of a shit to enforce them as well and nobody wants to waste money shutting down some two-bit gamer who bought a bootleg copy of Wily Wars from a convention he went to a few years ago, especially when you have pirates who are pirating shit that was released less than a month ago.

It's stupid to get worked up over something like this when the devs aren't seeing one red cent from a resold copy of an NES/SNES/N64/PSX/etc. game regardless.

>> No.4745115

>>4745094
>How is it illegal when the shit you're emulating is several decades out of print?

When you're selling them for profit. You don't own the IP there's no legal ambiguity here.

>I want something you're not selling

Isn't a legal defense. Look, Im pro emulation but you're an idiot if you think there's any wiggle room. The only reason Nintendo isn't gunning for most of these people is they can't be assed to pay attention.

>> No.4745119

i sold all my aliexpress repros because i was scared they will burn the fucking house down.

>> No.4745121

>>4745115
>When you're selling them for profit. You don't own the IP there's no legal ambiguity here.
Are you also breaking the law if you sell a used copy of a game as well? Because selling a repro is effectively the same as selling a used copy of a game for profit as well.
>The only reason Nintendo isn't gunning for most of these people is they can't be assed to pay attention.
Well if they don't give enough of a shit to pursue legal action for emulation then why should you? People are going to buy their products by the simplest and cheapest means possible and if that just so happens not to be you, that's ultimately a (you) problem.

>> No.4745127
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4745127

>>4745121
>Are you also breaking the law if you sell a used copy of a game as well? Because selling a repro is effectively the same as selling a used copy of a game for profit as well.

No it's not and you're an idiot.

>> No.4745147

>>4745127
Okay, were you authorized to sell your used copy of the game for profit? Did you get written consent from the powers that be to sell your used copy of SMB/Duck Hunt for $5 at the local flea market? Because if you didn't then you're just as fucked as the guy selling bootleg copies of Free Willy from the back of his Cadillac '94 or the guy hosting torrent sites where you can download ROMs for free. Luckily, nobody gives a fuck, not even the companies that made the game, so why should you care if people are selling repros for profit?

>> No.4745154

>>4745115
So you would rather buy a copy of Earthbound for $500 on ebay than get it for $30 via reproduction cartridge? I would never go out of my way to pay for a game that cost as much as my rent. This is why I'm pro-reproduction cartridges.

>> No.4745161

>>4745154
>So you would rather buy a copy of Earthbound for $500 on ebay than get it for $30 via reproduction cartridge?

Oh for fuck's sake. I didn't say that you moron. I just said it was what it was. Im also PRO repro but that doesn't make it legal. Actually listen to people why don't you. I didn't say don't do it, I just said be honest about it.

>> No.4745164

>>4745161
A law is only as legal as people are willing to enforce it anon.

>> No.4745227

>>4743453
I don't have any issue with them, but I personally wouldn't ever buy one. I'm a stickler for using original hardware whenever possible, and if that option isn't available, I'll just emulate.

>> No.4745230

>>4745154
>$30 via reproduction cartridge

Try $13 on AliExpress, tyhats where i got mine. Snes repros have fallen in price dramatically in the last year.

>> No.4745258
File: 170 KB, 1440x1080, 35693592596.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4745258

>>4744515
>abloo bloo it's not fair that I paid $300 for my copy of Earthbound and you only paid the cost of a sports game and an eprom chip

>> No.4745264

>>4744626
In large quantities like they do on Ali Express yeah, it's pretty scummy to sell someone else's fan translations. If you are just making up a few copies to sell and trade at a convention or swap meet though, I don't think they really care.

>> No.4745282

>>4745258
>it's not fair that I paid $300

You mean had "donated" by his good patron-friend right anon?

>> No.4745440
File: 426 KB, 2048x1024, IMG_3825.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4745440

Bootlegs are garbage. I only buy genuine reproductions from a trusted company.

>> No.4745471

>>4743675
I agree with you percent. I have no problem with repros as long as sellers are honest and have reproduction printed on the label

>> No.4745478

>>4744515
I pretty sure pat has no problem with repros as long as it's stated in the label

>> No.4745545

>>4745440
I can't tell if you're serious but at least they have the decency to warn you not to use them because of risk of fire to your console.

>WARNING: Use of this reproduction game cartridge (the “Product”) on the SNES gaming hardware may cause the SNES console to overheat or catch fire. The SNES hardware is deemed a vintage collectible, so please exercise extreme caution when using the Product and make sure there is fire extinguishment equipment nearby. Use of the Product is at the sole risk of the user.

https://store.iam8bit.com/products/street-fighter-ii-30th-anniversary-edition toward the bottom of the page.

>>4745440

>> No.4745562

>>4745545
>I can't tell if you're serious but at least I can't tell if they're serious
I can tell that you're serious. So sad.

>> No.4745571

>>4744973
I wish i was the great messiah that translated DUAL ORB 2. DUAL ORB 2 was translated a long time ago, new fag. I'm just spreading the gospel

>> No.4745726

>>4745545
What's the point of making a cart if you can't even play it?

>> No.4745787

>>4744524
I don't have a shop online yet, but if you are interested in getting a cartridge I'm sure we can work something out. Do you have discord?

Generally speaking I charge $25 for labor + parts/materials + shipping. My spitball estimate for Earthbound is that the donor cart would $8 and the TSOP chip I'd need is $10. A professionally printed label label costs $5 but if you'd rather use your own I can leave it bare, and then a special colored cartridge like the one shown is generally about $5 or $6.

>> No.4745814

It should be against the law to sell any electronic that goes on fire period... I'm sure it must be, no matter what you write on it. What if a person can't read? Forget about "vintage console", what about a person's house and life.

>> No.4745816

>>4745814
Do those carts really catch on fire or is Capcom just stupid paranoid and doesn't want any potential liability if someone plugs the game into an old broken console?

>> No.4745827

>>4745787
So you sell them for around $40-50? is it worth all the investment in EPROMS, a burner, shells, etc.? i mean, you can buy them for $12 on AliExpress.

How many have you sold?

>> No.4745840

>>4745816
I have no idea. If they are being really paranoid, then it's mighty stupid of them to put that on there because that's an admission of foreknowledge that something might occur could be viewed as partial evidence the equipment may have had a fire problem and started a fire. It's just ridiculous - if there's no risk then they should put nothing on, if there is a risk then probably they shouldn't sell it. I have never heard of any electronic company give that type of warning before, the only thing remotely similar was with mobile phones and that was almost always due to people putting blankets or textiles on them.

>> No.4745841

>>4745827
I do it mostly for fun. Ali express is cheaper if you just want to play the game. The material quality might not be as good but it's really up to you whether you think it's worth it or not.

If you just want a copy of a game for the sake of playing it I'd say Ali Express is fine. I've bought a cart or two from them myself and the quality is not bad. If you are going to spend $50 on a repro though I suggest either getting something a bit fancier like a special color cart and a unique looking label design, or something that's not available on Ali Express that you want, like a romhack version of a game. For example, there's a hack called "New Ghostbusters 2 Plus" that that gets rid of a lot of the weird color problems the original had. There's also new translations of Final Fantasy IV and VI available that are better than the original Final Fantasy 2 and 3 translations.

>> No.4745857

>>4745840
Like I said, the only reason I can think of is the fact that it's vintage electronics, and they do not want any responsibility if for some reason your obsolete game console does not work. The carts are probably perfectly safe but the lawyers are extremely panicky about the suggestion that someone plug in a 25 year old machine into a wall outlet to use a new product. It's probably the console itself they are worried about and not the cartridges they are selling.

>> No.4745901

>>4743675
Would you be willing to teach someome your ways for their own personal collection? I had to sell off all my old VR stuff years ago, but I'd love to remake my own collection. If not, take comissions for yours?

>> No.4745907

>>4745901
I learned most of my techniqes and equipment from John Riggs' channel on Youtube. If you want to learn the ropes I'd say start there.

>> No.4745917

>>4745907
You're a hero anon. Before I look into it, do I need to do anything to my old consoles to get them to play these? Or since it uses actual chips do they just work?

>> No.4745920

>>4745917
If the carts are made right then you shouldn't need to do any alterations to your system. The two exceptions are the expanded audio channels on the NES (which is only necessary for a few very specific games) and removing the tabs from an SNES if you are doing Japanese translation carts.

>> No.4745924

>>4745023
If you were in that memorabilia thread, then it was you who convinced me to get it.

>> No.4745925

>>4745917
>>4745920
Also, you should make sure your ROM files are compatible with your region before you burn them, using an emulator forced to your region.

>> No.4745928

>>4745787
>>4745827
I should amend that I've changed my labor costs from $25 to $20 since I recently got a desolder vacuum station that has sped up the work a lot. Desoldering ROM chips from donor boards used to be the most time consuming and aggravating part of the process but now it only takes me a few minutes.

>> No.4745992

>>4745012
Yeah, this is great and all, but what you think is going to happen isn't going to happen. Counterfeit carts aren't going to crash the legit cart market.

>> No.4745997

>>4745787

I'm not the anon you talked to but I wouldn't mind buying an EB repro from you. I'd rather support another anon than some aliexpress shop. I have discord, what's yours?

>> No.4746027
File: 235 KB, 878x592, 1494106271796.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4746027

>>4745440
>$100.00
>US box art
>Only one game instead of multiple MM games per cart
>Forwarded by goddamned e-celebs

>> No.4746078

>>4745440
>>4745545
So basically you are buying a nice fabrige coffin cause you cant even use it!

Its bad enough that the prices of the real game, a game that is Widespread thanks to the Majesco reprint goes at bloated fake prices but now this snake oil scam! FUCK YOU PEOPLE!

>> No.4746313

If you're a private collector, and you want to commission a repro of some super-rare to put on your shelf or to play some patched ROM, I have no problem with it.
But if you're selling these things in a shop or online, I want you to die. Yes, even the ones with gimmick drinking games that were never real games to begin with.

This one mom and pop started selling marked-up repros of patched games and super-rares, and I had to calmly explain to the owner that selling bootlegs alongside real carts cheapened his entire inventory and would make people doubt whether his genuine rare carts were real or fake (I know there ways to tell if you crack it open, but he didn't) and he thankfully agreed and stopped selling them a while later.

>> No.4746318

>>4746313
>This one mom and pop started selling marked-up repros of patched games and super-rares, and I had to calmly explain to the owner that selling bootlegs alongside real carts cheapened his entire inventory and would make people doubt whether his genuine rare carts were real or fake
As long as the games are playable and don't damage my console, why the fuck does this matter at all?

Granted, I'm not a collector but it seems pretty asinine to buy games just so they can look pretty on your shelve, unopened and unplayed on the off chance that you happen to sell it at some point years/decades down the line.

>> No.4746326

>>4746027

>Will melt your system

>> No.4746337

There's no doubt that people who make repros and sell them disguised as the real thing are the lowest scum of the earth. But the existance of repros doesn't really hurt anybody beyond that, but rather, the opposite.

>> No.4746365

>>4746318
>just so they can look pretty on your shelve, unopened and unplayed
Maybe 1 or 2% of collecters do this with retro games, all of them incredibly rich.
If you want a repro copy of [game], go commission one. But don't go selling it on the market.

>> No.4746376

>>4746365
>If you want a repro copy of [game], go commission one. But don't go selling it on the market.
Again, why exactly does this matter? It's the same shit as buying a flashcart or downloading a ROM to play on an emulator.

>> No.4746380

>>4745258
This chunky jewess makes my ball sack tighten

>> No.4746382

>>4746078
Faberge.

>> No.4746385

>>4745094
Holy shit you're a fucking idiot. Like. Fuck man. Go to school or something Jesus... You're dumb. Not even joking. You're just pissing me off now with how fucking stupid this post was. Go away. Now.

>> No.4746392 [DELETED] 

>>4746385
>UR DUMB LMAO
We get it, repros hurt your fee-fees, it doesn't mean you have to act like a child over it.

>> No.4746401 [DELETED] 
File: 356 KB, 1214x1239, butthurt.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4746401

>>4746385

>> No.4746458 [DELETED] 

>>4745787
>uses donor carts
>pays $10 for a $2 chip
>charges $25 for wasting time due to retardation
Wew lad. You can get a fully assembled board including all the chips for $20. You can then stuff it in your $5 shell in under 60 seconds. Why are so many repro makers so retarded?

>>4745827
Absolutely worth it. Especially if you go the cheaper route with EPROMs and doing a little work. In that case your total cost per cart is maybe $15 and you can use a cheap ass programmer. If you sell for $40 you've more than paid for your programmer if you sell 3. And since you're not doing a lot of SMD you could use any cheep ass $5 soldering iron, although it would be worth splurging on a $10 one. So sell 4 and you've recouped your <$100 capitol investment.

>> No.4746465 [DELETED] 

>>4746392
>>4746401
If you don't fuck off within the next five minutes I'm going to lick the shit out of you. Fuck. Off.
>>4746458
Can you believe those idiots? Jesus Christ what the hell happened to this board? Swear the /v/ contamination is just increasing exponentially each day.

>> No.4746473 [DELETED] 
File: 84 KB, 573x729, 1485815918472.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4746473

>>4746465
>If you don't fuck off within the next five minutes I'm going to lick the shit out of you. Fuck. Off.

>> No.4746481 [DELETED] 

>>4746473
Holy shit you're a Drumpftard too. Figures, it's the only way one could be so fucking retarded. Hey kid....kill yourself before your little god emperor makes the purge real and I have to do the job for you.....

>> No.4746489 [DELETED] 
File: 48 KB, 402x490, 1436943416668.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4746489

>>4746481

>> No.4746491 [DELETED] 

>>4746489
If I knew you in real life I would probably kick the fuck out of you. No offense but that's just what guys like me do to wimpy little babby men like you. Its the natural order of things

A gorilla roars

A dog barks

and buddy I hurt people

>> No.4746495 [DELETED] 
File: 40 KB, 480x456, 480w_s.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4746495

>>4746481
>Drumpftard!
/vr/ is a faggot-free board. Get the fuck out of here.

>> No.4746498 [DELETED] 
File: 51 KB, 555x344, 1437641347673.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4746498

>>4746491
>If I knew you in real life I would probably kick the fuck out of you.
No you wouldn't.
>No offense but that's just what guys like me do to wimpy little babby men like you.
You say, while on a Ethiopian Elephant Emporium, getting butthurt over reproduction carts, whatever you say man.
>and buddy I hurt people
No you don't.

>> No.4746501 [DELETED] 

>>4746495
/vr/ is one of the most liberal and tolerant boards on 4chan. Don't try to spread your hateful philosophy here I will have the mods handle it faster than Obama handled Osama's death.

>> No.4746502 [DELETED] 

>>4746501
>threatens
>not hateful
Pick one, derailing faggot

>> No.4746526

>>4745264
>fan translators modify someone else's copyrighted material: completely acceptable
>someone selling fan translators stolen valour: completely unacceptable
Think before typing next time

>> No.4746532 [DELETED] 

>>4746495
lol fag

>> No.4746567

>>4745154
I'd still go for the flash cart in this case. If I was autistic enough to need a real ROM cart plugged in to enjoy the game, then I would probably think about it being a repro forever until I forced myself to buy the 'real' thing for some god-awful price.
If you're going to pirate it anyway, why not get the whole enchilada?

>> No.4746579 [DELETED] 

>>4746502
Do NOT use that word here again.

>> No.4746582 [DELETED] 

>>4746579
hateful
*dabs*

>> No.4746595 [DELETED] 

>>4746579
>Hateful faggot
Hateful faggot
Repros are kino
Repros are kino
Repros are kino

>> No.4746598

No problem with them as long as not passed off as an original. I essentially look at them like LP represses. Yeah, they're bootleg and usually not officially released by the dev/publisher, unlike record represses, but most of these games (outside of the big name titles) are unlikely to ever be officially re-released anyway. Probably not cost effective for a company to buy the rights to Musha and then going into manufacturing however many carts.

>> No.4746604 [DELETED] 

>>4746595
>k*no
MODS

>> No.4746606

>>4746595
based kinography man

>> No.4746608

>>4746606
MODS

>> No.4746613
File: 41 KB, 512x433, 1523231994601.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4746613

>>4746608

>> No.4746614

>>4746027
>>4746078
baited.jpg

>> No.4746618

>>4743453
I honestly have no idea why someone would buy reproductions when emulation exists, since that's literally what these repros are in the first place except they cost money and come attached to a cart that you could damage or lose, but whatever man. Lots of people burn their money on drugs and women. If you want to burn it on nerdy shit instead that's fine. Doesn't affect me either way.

>> No.4746620

Absolutely fine. I wish we could have 100% faithful hardware reproductions of the console itself.

>> No.4746654

>>4744848
It's literally one guy. You can tell because his posts have the same voice and his "comedic timing" is consistently off the mark.

>> No.4746662

>>4746618
>I honestly have no idea why someone would buy reproductions when emulation exists

Because a reproduction cart (or any reproduction of something), in theory, physically resembles the original cart, with its design aesthetics and original artwork, and thus recreates the experience of removing/inserting cartridges and the like.

>autistic blah blah blah

Emulation and flashcarts are nice, but right now, vintage gamers have the options of emulation, original hardware/carts, and reproductions. Vintage gaming really isn't a particular expensive hobby compared to the variety of hobbies many adults have (though there are some cost prohibitive systems and games), so as long the option of emulation vs. the real thing exists, gamers with disposable income prefer the latter (in most cases). Repros can be a middle ground/alternative to those mega buck titles that only wealthy collectors can really afford.

Ex. Option A, 299.99 (built to spec) reproduction Neo Geo System, with games at an average cost of 30.00.

Option B. Emulate it.

For people who are SNK enthusiasts, but can't afford to get into the Neo Geo, Option A will probably be the preferred alternative, since part of the "fun" of the retro gaming hobby is playing around with the hardware itself and experience the platform in its historical state. So while the reproduction Neo might not be original, it still recreates the overall experience more accurately than loading up a rom.

>> No.4746668

>>4746620
Why can’t we

>> No.4746673

>>4746668
I dunno. Why can't we just order the exact same chips the SNES or Playstation used and make our own board? Maybe they just don't make the old chips anymore?

>> No.4746681

>>4746673
If they can make the carts why can’t they make the chips??

>> No.4746685

>>4745440
>retro pack-in surprises
Got to be the NP pog collection, right?

>> No.4746686

>>4746681
Would be nice if some electronics guy could explain this. I'm guessing the carts are just some memory chips while consoles have more unique hardware. Still, can't you decap the hardware, take a photo and then copy it?

>> No.4746720

>>4746662
>vintage gamers
>VINTAGE GAMERS
oh you mean poser hipsters and e-penis braggers /e-speculators that have co-opted our medium for profit and penis messuring conteststs?

>> No.4746727

>>4746662
so basically the answer to why do people make and buy repros is "autism"

i guess.

>> No.4746732

>>4746662
>Emulation and flashcarts are nice, but right now, millennials who were never interested in "loser nerd shit" as children have the options of spending actual money for something with less quality of life features that they could get for free elsewhere and with more quality of life features, because being a nerd is cool in [current year] but only if you can show off how much money you spend on it.

>> No.4746745

>>4746732
>but only if you can show off how much money you spend on it.
That's the crux of it. You can post selfies of your reprods on social media for consumerist normie points, but posting screenshots of actually playing videogames e.g. with an emulator still makes you a loser.

>> No.4746874

>>4743453
I think they're great. Dumb kids butchering games for donor carts has really driven up the value of my thrift store sports games. Some day loose madden carts will be rarer than factory sealed EB originals.

>> No.4746875

if you decorate you walls with cardboard and plastic garbage guess what you're a fucking basedboy retard

>> No.4746880

If you can buy a repro, you can buy the original.

Personally, repros just aren't the real thing. I could never buy one because deep down I'd know I'd prefer to have the real game.

>> No.4746897

>>4745997
I've created a discord channel if you guys would like to contact me about buying repros from me.

https://discord.gg/7QNVkz

The link will expire in a day but I can make another link if anyone else wants to contact me.

>> No.4747117

>>4746880
>If you can buy a repro, you can buy the original.
There's a HUGE fucking difference between paying $20-50 for a repro of Earthbound and paying $200-500 for the actual cart chief. Even then, the Wii U port is by far cheaper and easier to get your hands on, but that's besides the point.

The point is, it really doesn't matter. If your prerogative is to play the game on an actual console, it doesn't really matter whether it's official or not, so long as it works and doesn't fuck up the console.

If you're just buying carts for the purpose of improving the worth of your collection later on then congrats, you're just as bad as the people who buy a game, post le funny picture of it on facebook, and then chuck it in a pile somewhere because they never had any intentions on playing the fucking game.

>> No.4747192

>>4745726
just a way to CYA otherwise some moron would sue them after playing this game on a 25yr old snes with dried up caps going up in flames

>> No.4747227

>>4747117
This guy gets it

>> No.4747372

im cool with repros. i used to be friends with a counterfeiter. he was making them for a few bucks and selling them for $80 a pop lmao

>> No.4747391

>>4743453
I like them. They'll allow me to buy my ideal SNES collection, use the real hardware and not have to take out a loan.

>> No.4748349

>>4747117
Welcome to /vr/ newfriend. Before your kind showed up we paid a buck for a bootleg. "$20-50 for a repro" fucking kek.

>>4747227
>gets it
In da butt

>>4747372
>used to be
But you're a 12yo LARPer. How old were you when you pretended to suck him off for a PS3 bootleg?

>> No.4748375

>>4743548
There is a point to them. My favorite game ever, flaws and all, is Terranigma, but it was only released in Europe and Japan. So to play it I'd have to mess with my SNES and import or go through a flashcart/repro. I went with a reproduction because it's nice having a physical copy with a good looking box, a manual, a map and a poster for my favorite game ever. I mean, the reproduction I got actually comes with more physical extras than the official European or Japanese release. So for things that you really, really like and can't otherwise get, there is value to them.

If it's just a random game you want to play, sure, get a flashcart or emulate.

>> No.4748548

>>4746673
Those consoles used custom chips that aren't made anymore. The closest you'll be able to get is an FPGA. By studying the original system, you can make a cycle-accurate replica of the logic chips. The analog components are usually the most difficult to get right (ie. sound and exact color pallette)

>> No.4748561

>>4746686
Most carts are memory chips with a little glue logic. A few (like the later Japanese Famicom games and later SNES games) have microprocessors and audio circuits. (That's why a lot of these games don't work correctly on older emulators or flash carts.)
The systems? Very few were made with 100% off-the-shelf parts. The ColecoVision or Sega SG-1000 was probably the last fully off-the-shelf console (until the Xbox), and most of the chips have been discontinued. The SNES had a semi-custom clone CPU, a custom video chip, and a reprogrammable sound chip with custom programming. Sega consoles had custom video hardware, even though they started with a standard part. Once you get to the Playstation era, all bets are off. Those consoles used obscure CPUs with highly customized video and sound chips. There's no way to source the necessary components, at least not without salvaging them from broken consoles.
The best thing to do is to remake the chips themselves through reverse engineering. That is very time consuming and expensive, though.

>> No.4748686

I made this thread as a shitty stealth Dual Orb II thread, but it actually had some decent discussion. I love this board.

>> No.4748690

>>4743453
There's no point to buying anything that isn't real when you can emulate for free...you only get an actual cart as a collectible or you're just giving some chinks who put roms on a flashcart money.

>> No.4748706

>>4748561
>Most carts are memory chips with a little glue logic
Sauce? In my experience most carts are memory chips with no glue logic. I've only been doing this since before your parents were born but I'm pretty sure I'm right about this.

>> No.4748992
File: 701 KB, 1000x1280, pub_ram_plus_2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4748992

>>4748706
Video games from "before my parents were born" would be purely mechanical, my dude.
At least as early as the Atari VCS, developers were adding extra chips. The Atari VCS - whose cartridge slot is literally the same signals as a ROM chip. The game Tunnel Runner had RAM, which had to be addressed specially. Hell, if you have more than one physical ROM chip in these carts, you'll at least need an inverter circuit for the chip select!
Once you get to the NES, all bets are off. The NES had separate addressing for program and character ROM. That's great for primitive games, so you don't need any extra chips, right? Wrong - games like Super Mario 3 used a 'mapper' chip that did bank switching. (Anyone who has been doing this for a long time will have heard of bank switching.)
Try opening up a game cartridge for something newer than the Fairchild Channel F.

>> No.4748994
File: 782 KB, 1952x2088, IMG_20140125_173150.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4748994

>>4748706
>>4748992
Here's Castlevania 3. Notice the SCC-1 chip, which definitely isn't just memory. It's a custom sound processor made by Konami.

>> No.4749002
File: 3.56 MB, 3264x2448, Super-Mario-World-Innards.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4749002

>>4748706
>>4748992
Here's Super Mario World, a launch title for the Super Nintendo system. It has four chips: the ROM, an SRAM, the lockout chip, and... the MAD-1 memory address decoder ("glue logic"). It's even got a battery! Some later games (like Mario Kart) had their own CPUs on board as well.

>> No.4749036

>>4748992
>At least as early as the Atari VCS, developers were adding extra chips
it was incredibly expensive to do and not a great deal of cartridges were built like that. RAM was expensive then, even for small amounts, and ROMs weren't much cheaper.

> you'll at least need an inverter circuit for the chip select!
it's called bank switching. worked the same way as you have described for the NES. there were several types of bank switching chips made for 2600 carts.

>>4749002
mario kart had no extra CPU, just a DSP (FPU) for mode 7 math calculations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super_NES_enhancement_chips#DSP-1

>> No.4749038

>>4748706
well, you're old AND wrong. congratulations! of course there's going to be some kind of logic in advanced carts. how on earth do you expect a system to bank in parts of ROM the system is unable to see on its own? magic? human sacrifice?

>> No.4749050

>>4749036
I'd say that the bank switching circuitry IS glue logic, even if it is standard practice. As for extra memory on early games - of course it's bloody expensive. Most Atari games don't go quite so far, but there are more than a few which do this. I'm sure they were expensive to buy back in the day, as well.
The Nintendo MMC3 is a bit more sophisticated than the typical bank-switcher - it does scanline counting and provides interrupts. Not super impressive in 2018, but it is very helpful on the NES.

As for Mario Kart/Starfox etc... Good luck convincing anyone that a DSP isn't a specialized microprocessor. It's not a general purpose computer, but it's definitely running program code in parallel with the main CPU.

>> No.4749060

Just to check, I looked at a newer game that I had handy (a GBA game - Puffy AmiYumi). It had only two chips: the game ROM and a serial EEPROM for the save games. I believe that the DS games are similar, but I don't want to take one apart right now.
So, if you're young enough, all of your games are simple memory chips.

>> No.4749076

>>4749050
>Good luck convincing anyone that a DSP isn't a specialized microprocessor
only the dumbest fucking morons on the planet would think a DSP is a microprocessor.

>> No.4749087

>>4749076
Keep digging, there's gold down there

>> No.4749126

According to the data sheet for the uPD77C55 (the SNES DSP), it supports mostly math instructions, and some conditional branching, subroutines, etc. It definitely is meant to run in parallel with another processor, except for stand-alone signal processing applications. The SNES mostly uses it as a math coprocessor. Of course, it's not being used in the same way as the i80387 that you might be used to - it isn't getting 'traps' etc.
According to the data sheet, "the feature that distinguishes digital signal processing (DSP) chips from general-purpose microcomputers is the on-chip multiplier - necessary for high speed signal processing algorithms." Other than that, it's a fairly mundane 16-bit Harvard architecture computer, including interrupt support and a stack.

>> No.4749273

>>4748686
I did the same thing with a sequel thread. All them niggas did was talk about pokemon.

>> No.4749369

>>4743675
I don't like it. I feel for every 1 '''''legit'''' seller who lets you know they're repros, there will be 10 sellers that don't say shit and just fleece you. Also because you are making money off of what you are doing, it will encourage more people to get into repro-cart making which will in turn result in more shitty fake repro carts flooding the market

>> No.4749436

>>4743578
Because FlashCarts can't? Do you have some form of mental retardation?

>> No.4749648

>>4748992
The NDS wasn't "purely mechanical, my dude." Also, readingcomprehension.

>>4749038
Cool story kid. readingcomprehension

>> No.4749653

>>4743578
having a shelf full of fake games is lame and something a poseur would do

>> No.4749664

>>4743453
To me there's absolutely no point. The point of collecting is I want the real original physical copy. Might as well just emulate it at that point.

>> No.4749685

>>4749648
I don't know about you, but my first experience with gaming was the Atari VCS and the C64. I suppose if your first console was the DS, you'd think that game carts would just be memory chips.
I think you might be in violation of rule #2...

>> No.4749697

>>4743453
Usefulness replaced by flashcarts, emulators.

BUT it makes for a good gift, it's better than a funko or some shit.

>> No.4749749

>>4749697
Now there's an interesting idea. Yeah, I think I'd rather get that Megaman repro than a Funko Pop version of Megaman for Christmas. Both are useless, but the repro cart is far more aesthetically pleasing.
Maybe that sort of thing could be put in the same category as fan art?

>> No.4749758

>>4748994
>>4749002
>electronics using THT
good times.

>> No.4749809

>>4749758
Amen to that. I can do larger SMD stuff, but it's a pain in the ass (and nose). I built an 8051 single-board industrial controller back in the day on a 2 oz thru-hole board. It's super easy to make changes in the field with that stuff. Nowadays, bring a spare and chuck the old board...

>> No.4749819

>>4743453

They're for bugmen. They have zero value since they're just bootlegs, and for not much more money you can buy a flashcart.

>> No.4751143

>>4743613
I have a few bootlegs, and I don't even leave my stuff on shelves for everyone to see. It's all in drawers. So I'm the Pinnacle of autism.

>> No.4751153

>>4743715
>>4743701
You should REALLY be using TSOP packages instead of EPROMs.
Those are getting rare, while TSOPs are still manufactured today.

A TSOP adaptor for your programmer is cheap.
Additionally, Flash EEPROMs will hold their data longer than an EPROM.

>> No.4751162

>>4749819
>They have zero value since they're just bootlegs

They hold the value of the parts used to make them, and the time involved in making them.

A TSOP package repro cart with a quality label, new battery, and clean cart is worth at least $30-$50 depending on the number and type of chips used.

>> No.4751184

>>4751153
Longevity issues with EPROMS are highly exaggerated. They're also cheaper than you might think. If you buy them in the US they are exensive but I recently ordered a lot of 10 from China and I only paid about $2.30 for each of them. Given the prices on TSOP chips + adapters amount of extra work required to solder them, I don't think it's worth the fuss at this point. It might be in the future, but that time is still a long ways off.

>> No.4751684 [DELETED] 

>>4743675
Bro you self-promoted in my thread asking about repros pretending to be a consumer lol wtf?

>> No.4751832

>>4749685
Cool projecting kid. I guess that's what happens when the shit between your ears is purely mechanical

>> No.4751870

>>4749002
Numerically, most titles were just mask ROMs and didn't require logic chips (MAD-1 is just two logic chips in one package).

Games with SRAM were rare until SNES, and even then many SNES titles didn't use it.

Think about all those dumb sports games with one mask rom, a lockout chip, and nothing else, or arcade ports like Sunset Riders.

Mask rom, lockout chip, a few passives, and nothing else.

>> No.4751923

>>4751870
For the NES, you can get about 48k PRG (32k typical) and 8k CHR without bank switching. After that, you absolutely need at least one other 'mapper' chip (a 74xx series logic chip for the early games). I believe you can have PRG RAM without a mapper.
I don't know the relative counts of games that are purely mask ROMs, but there are a non-trivial number of games with mapper chips (Megaman, Castlevania, Super Mario 3, etc), so they are definitely an important part of the system. Other than the Famicom games with sound chips, though, I think only the MMC3 chip had a function other than bank switching or changing the mirroring. (I could be wrong about that.)
The SNES typically only had a memory address decoder and CIC - much like the NES. The few games that went beyond that really went overboard with the SuperFX etc.
I believe only a small number of Genesis games used extra chips - Sega went for add-on hardware in most cases. I don't know how those cartridges were typically wired. I'm guessing the same is true for the MasterSystem, since they were able to fit some games on plastic cards, and general production of surface-mount ASICs wasn't quite as affordable back then...

>> No.4754098

>>4748706
screencapped and added to the cringy larp folder
thanks

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