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/vr/ - Retro Games

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4734886 No.4734886 [Reply] [Original]

Is Flea a trans girl in the original Japanese, or was that a Woolsey-ism?

>> No.4734898

all regional versions of chrono cross label flea as a male but I can't speak for the original japanese chrono trigger

>> No.4735251

It was something he managed to get past censors.

>> No.4735268

>>4734886
She is a cute girl (male).

>> No.4735309

>>4735268
This doesn’t make sense you goofy faggot

>> No.4735570

Probably creative use of Japanese pronouns and other subtleties. A lot of that stuff got 'lost' in translation, or was perhaps neglected due to censorship policies at the time. NoA was always rather strict about removing LGBT content from games localized on its platforms to appeal to reactionary religious groups.

>> No.4735598

>>4734886
Flea said it himself that he's a guy, and just loves beautiful things.

>> No.4735659

>>4734886
>Frog: Keep your guard up!
>This is no ordinary woman!
>Meet Flea, the magician!

>FLEA: What the...?!
>Hey, I'm a GUY!

>Marle: THAT is a GUY?!

>Lucca: Say what?!
>That's a guy?!

>Robo: But its exterior is that of a
>female...

>FLEA: Male...female......what's the
>difference?
>Power is beautiful, and I've got the
>power!

>カエル「ゆだんするな!
>こいつが空魔土マヨネー!
>ただの女ではない。

>マヨネー「ムキーッ!
>ど~せ、あたいは男ヨ!

>マール「男なの、このコ!

>ルッカ「ゲ! 男なの、アンタ!?


>ロボ「外見はあきらかに女性としか
>思えマセンガ……。

>マヨネー「フフン、けど女でも男でも
>強い者は美しいのヨネ~。

It's actually reasonably close to the original. Slightly reworded, but the meaning is the same.

>> No.4735696

>>4734886
I'm totally out of touch with today's LTGBBQ terminology, but doesn't "trans" imply they went through some procedure to remove the penis? Because if that's the case I find it highly doubtful, that's more of a western thing, you don't see a lot of that in Japanese media, it's more likely he's just a pretty boy cross dressing, which was and still is a lot more common.

>> No.4735702

>>4735696
No, trans doesn't imply that they have had any kind of procedure done. Trans just means you're living as the opposite gender you were born as.

Most trannies still have the junk they were born with, only a small percentage of them actually go through with a gender reassignment surgery. (And most of them seem to regret it to some degree because it's pretty horrific)

>> No.4735751
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4735751

>> No.4735769

>>4735696
Transfolk don't need to get bottom surgery to be trans, and they exist in Japan. Hence the Poison debate since she was listed as a newhalf which is a jap term for transgender.

>> No.4735784

>>4735696
>LTGBBQ
As a gay man I despise being associated with truly mentally ill people.

>> No.4735790

The question is, is Flea a man with a female appearance, a drag queen with a stuffed bra, or a woman who identifies as a man? Being a shapeshifter and a capable mage, all are very reasonable.

Then again this is something we can probably ask Mr. Toriyama himself.

>> No.4735792

>>4734886
Flea isn't even human

>> No.4735803

It was obviously played for laughs.

>> No.4735812

>>4735790
Especially the Japanese script >>4735659
makes it pretty clear he's a guy that likes crossdressing because it makes him feel pretty. He also talks like a girl.

>> No.4735832

>>4735812
Imagine a similar exchange happened with Kuja in FF9. That guy shows off some clearly feminine hips. Japs have always really been into crossdressing. Too bad about contemporary western politics reevaluating these things in old games with a ridiculous lens.

>> No.4735836

>>4735659
>マヨネー「フフン、けど女でも男でも
>強い者は美しいのヨネ~。
>FLEA: Male...female......what's the
>difference?
>Power is beautiful, and I've got the
>power!

That's the only real change in the translation. The original Japanese is more like "But the strong are beautiful, no matter if they are male or female".
Woolsey didn't rewrite it THAT hard, but that "male, female, what's the difference" thing can definitely be interpreted in ways the original text can't be.

I do think Woolsey meant to keep the translation accurate here, though, he just chose a wording that's a bit more up for interpretation than he probably intended.

>> No.4735854

>>4735836
tldr the exchange is basically meant to be read as follows:
>Frog: Be on your guard, this is no ordinary woman.
>Flea/Mayonnaise: Woman? I'm a man.
>Marle/Lucca: YOU'RE a man?!
>Robo: You definitely look like a woman to me.
>Flea/Mayonnaise: That's because I'm strong, and strong people are beautiful no matter if they are male or female.

Basically he just associates power with beauty and dresses up in girly clothes and talks like a girl because it makes him feel pretty and strong. There's nothing about it that implies sexuality, and definitely not gender identification or anything like that.

>> No.4735864
File: 29 KB, 200x500, latest.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4735864

>>4735854
He literally has boobs.

>> No.4735868

>>4735864
I guess he associates boobs with power too?

>> No.4735876

>>4735659
going by this it would seem that Flea is a cis-male who happens to have the appearance of a pretty girl.

>> No.4735880

>>4735864
Not really. That was one thing censored from English Chrono Trigger.
The item you can loot from him is called a "vest" but is a corset in japanese. It's fake.

>> No.4735881

>>4735876
>cis
Commonwealth of Independent States

>> No.4735889

>>4735881
*Confederacy of Independent Systems

>> No.4735890

>>4735880
So in other words >>4735868

>> No.4735895

So I guess the ultimate question is...
Would you?

>> No.4735906

>>4735895
Of course

>> No.4735910

>>4735895
Totally.

>> No.4735912

traps are gay

>> No.4735917

>>4735912
Yes, and...?

>> No.4736040

How the fuck did someone type out the Japanese script and pretend to understand it but just did say Flea is an Okama

>> No.4736146

>>4735702

Cutting your junk off is when it starts slipping into complete insanity anyway, nobody who's already into that wants to fuck some fake vagoo over the almighty feminine penis.

>> No.4736496

>>4735570
It's not LGBT content tho. He changed forms due to a botched spell you mong.

>> No.4736505

>>4736146
People don't get sexual reassignment surgery for the sake of their sexual partners, anon.

>> No.4736554

>>4736505

That's kind of my point, it's self-serving, essentially fixing a 'problem' that never existed in the mind of anybody but the person getting it, and usually making things worse as the other anon said with what they want being ultimately unattainable.

>> No.4736560

>>4734886
Being able to kill that tranny is one of the reasons CT stays in my top 10. Wish you could in more games.

>> No.4736580

>>4735769
Thought newhalf was slant eye for hermaphrodite?

>> No.4736581

>>4736040
What?

>> No.4736614
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4736614

>>4735880
>>4735868
It's Mayone's Bra, actually.

And if he likes wearing it because it makes him feel -empowered-, then he's probably more of a girl than he wants to admit. Pic related :P

>> No.4736619

>>4736614
You're an idiot.

>> No.4736623

>>4735864
BRAVO TORIYAMA

>> No.4736638

>>4736614
Every RPG thread this faggot shows up.

>> No.4736652

>>4734886
Toriyama loves adding femenine-looking men into his works.

>> No.4736653
File: 1.06 MB, 708x1244, Accessories.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4736653

>>4736619
?????

Here's concept art for accessories in Chrono Trigger, which shows that the "Flea vest" is a pink bra. Like, there's nothing factually wrong with what I said, what's your ******* problem?

>> No.4736658 [DELETED] 

>>4736653
>Censoring his own cuss words

Dude, honestly? Go back to yoir subreddit. You are still not ready to use this board.

>> No.4736663 [DELETED] 
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4736663

>>4736658
**** you!

>> No.4736668

>>4735659
Reading that I'm seeing him more like a Balrog or Zhang He
nothing trans at all, just flamboyant

>> No.4736670 [DELETED] 

>>4736663
Get off 4chan and go back to tumblr, fucking shitty trash.

>> No.4736673 [DELETED] 
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4736673

>>4736670

>> No.4736683 [DELETED] 

>>4736673
Can this aids infested coal burning faggot be banned already?

>> No.4736690 [DELETED] 
File: 213 KB, 926x765, tumblr_nwk70ha7NM1qk58qxo1_1280.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4736690

>>4736683

>> No.4736714

>>4736653
>censoring yourself on 4chan
>has a gay name instead of being anonymous
>complaining about tranny shit on /vr/

>> No.4736815

>>4736623
>small series Toriyama did called "Ackman"
>one of chapters they call a prostitute
>she is swinging her body
>drops her pants
>main character:she has a dick
That's Toriyama for you

>> No.4737080 [DELETED] 
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4737080

>>4736714
There is literally nothing wrong with being trans.

>> No.4737083

>>4737080
Poster >>4736714 just explained why flaunting your mental illness online is a problem, faggot.

>> No.4737126

>>4736815
Josephine?
That was in the first game on SNES but instead a dancer.
He's unfazed by her because "she's not his type".

Then again they cut out Tenchi blowing up a bus full of kindergarten children so that could be NCL censors and their rule of no obscene or gratuitously violent content by jp sfc licensees (not as bad as noa's but a thing nevertheless).
But then Ackman 2-3 were original official continuations of the story and they allowed some shit there.

>> No.4737159

>>4737126
>Tenchi blowing up a bus full of kindergarten children
dude what

>> No.4737162

>>4737159
It's something that happens in the manga. Tenshi (Ackman's nemesis) threatens Ackman with a rocket launcher, but when he fires it, he misses and hits a school bus. Then Ackman taunts him saying that he's managed to collect lots of new souls thanks to Tenshi.... and this is all played for laughs, by the way. Toriyama has a pretty off-color sense of humor.

>> No.4737164

>>4737162
I should check it out. I've been reading Dr. Slump recently and loving it.

>> No.4737165 [DELETED] 

>>4737080
You're annoying but really because you're trans, or really people probably mostly have a problem with it just because you're using it to insert an identity into what's supposed to be an anonymous board.
I'd imagine most posters here wouldn't have a problem with a "CIS" female posting either, and so long as she was contributing to the conversation you wouldn't even notice, it's just when they irrelevantly have to state that they are a woman is when it becomes a problem.

>> No.4737167

>>4737080
You're annoying but not really because you're trans, or really people probably mostly have a problem with it just because you're using it to insert an identity into what's supposed to be an anonymous board.
I'd imagine most posters here wouldn't have a problem with a "CIS" female posting either, and so long as she was contributing to the conversation you wouldn't even notice, it's just when they irrelevantly have to state that they are a woman is when it becomes a problem.

>> No.4737170

>>4737167
I think the main problem is that the person is starting a team and picking a side and an agenda on 4chan where there are no teams and there are no sides.

>> No.4737530

>>4736554

It is the point that usually makes things worse once they realize that nothing changed at all, life didn't get better and they are no more the opposite gender they were before, but simply now have mutilated genitals. Gender dysphoria is a serious mental issue that isn't solved by simply cutting off or gluing on a dick. Depression often follows, with suicide already knocking on the door, its lovely wife and business partner.

>> No.4737604
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4737604

>>>

>> No.4738863
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4738863

>> No.4738865
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4738865

I remain surprised at how many people latched onto Flea when I barely remembered them. He was an incredibly minor character with like twenty seconds of screentime outside of his boss fight.

>> No.4738932

>>4738863
>implying you wouldn't

>> No.4738946

>>4738932
>>>/lgbt/

>> No.4738970

this thread make me think of this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3s4nkPZsH_E

>> No.4739304

>>4738865
"Is actually a boy" is an easy gimmick to make people like a character

>> No.4739309

>>4739304
True, most traps have little to nothing going on as characters and live by their gimmick.

>> No.4739549

>>4737530
Yeah. They basically go from "life sucks, but if I can cut my dick off it'll get better" to "life still sucks, and now I'm in massive debt and don't have a dick anymore".

>> No.4739573

>>4734886
Male, female... what's the difference? The only thing that matters is that I want to fuck Flea. Also he/she/it has a big forehead, like Marle. Which is good.

>> No.4739591
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4739591

Crossdressing is not gay.

>> No.4739593

Traps are gay.