/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.4700960]

>game has a leveling up system with experience points
>regularly throws infinitely respawning enemies at you that drain your experience points

Yeah, no thanks.

[Anonymous No.4700964]

Let's not forget the egregious typos, shit-tier combat, FF-style overworld with no classic exploration, awful art style and weird pacing. But hey, this is /vr/, so remember:
>ZELDA 2 BEING SHIT IS A MEME, I LOVED THE GAME AS A KID, BETTER THAN ZELDA 1

[Anonymous No.4700969]

>>4700964
Zelda 2 being shit isn't a meme. It's worse than 1 in almost every way.

[Anonymous No.4700974]

Zelda 2 is still one of the best Zelda games

[Anonymous No.4700978]

>>4700960
>regularly
Wrong. How you enjoying the first palace, you casual fuck?

>>4700969
Wrong again.

[Anonymous No.4700979]

>>4700969
>Zelda 2 being shit isn't a meme. It's worse than 1 in almost every way.
Yes, I agree. And then we have...
>>4700974
... faggots like this. RIP your thread.

[Anonymous No.4700993]

>>4700978
>Wrong
Very insightful and informative rebuttal, rural / suburban retard.

[Anonymous No.4700997]

>>4700993
Your whole problem is that the game was too hard for you, maybe something like kirby would be better for you?

[Anonymous No.4701004]

The only Zelda game worse than Zelda 2 is Skyward Sword.

[Anonymous No.4701006]

>>4700997
>game sucks
>LOL GIT GUD

[Anonymous No.4701008]

>>4700997
I love Castlevania III. Zelda II is just tedious.

[Anonymous No.4701009]

>>4701006
>game is too hard for me
>game is shit

[Anonymous No.4701012]

Why does Link's sword look like a turkey leg. Who was responsible for the sprite art in this fuckin thing?

[Anonymous No.4701013]

>>4701004
>>4701006
>>4701008
NES Castlevania is awfully primitive gameplay-wise. It really boggles my mind that Zelda II has become an easy target for the self-proclaimed 'retro' gamers, but Castlevania remains on good terms. I think that the combat in Zelda II is phenomenal, and is the obvious contender for greatest sidescrolling combat of its era. Firstly, Zelda II has virtually flawless movement - Link runs at the perfect speed, quick enough to travel and avoid anything in the game, but not too fast that it feels anxious or too quick. Jumping around is fantastic too; Link has momentum and flexibility, it's so much fun to just run around and do things, because the character is just so responsive and fittingly designed. As for the combat itself, attacking feels so good also. Link can jump and thrust all over the place, and can elegantly hop and avoid a whole barrage of attacks. On, top of that there's also the magic system, which can allow the player to jump higher, fly, just to name a few things. Back to Castlevania. In contrast, these games are extremely lacking. Simon has zero momentum, he's incredibly slow, he can only attack in two directions, he's unresponsive to fast movements, he cannot jump far, he cannot even angle his jumps, there is no dodging/parry, or fast movements. Castlevania is very slow and basic. The level design in Castlevania is equally boring because it has to pander to this limited character combat and movement.

[Anonymous No.4701015]

>>4701009
Dude I've beaten Alundra without a guide, which blows Zelda 2 out of the fucking water in terms of tedium and difficulty, and difficulty isn't a factor. The gameplay and overall quality just isn't good. I know it's hard for someone with a double-digit IQ like yourself to understand that a game can be bad for reasons other than the player being bad at it, but make no mistake, Zelda 2 is a piece of shit and you're an apologist for bad design.

[Anonymous No.4701018]

>>4700997
>he dislikes the game so he must be bad at it!
I never said the difficulty was the issue.

[Anonymous No.4701020]

>>4701004
Nope. Skyward Sword is leaps and bounds better than Zelda II, but that's not retro.

[Anonymous No.4701026]

>>4701018
>regularly throws infinitely respawning enemies at you that drain your experience points
Yeah I dont see the problem here, any other complain?

[Anonymous No.4701042]

>>4701015
What bad design?. the game is good. better than 1 not by much but better

[Anonymous No.4701050]

>ITT Millennial OOT babies try older entries to the franchise
>Can't into Zelda 2 because they have no patience or actual skill
>Proceed to cry about it like entitled man-children

[Anonymous No.4701054]

>>4701050
OoT is still the best Zelda game

[babbage's gramps !RATGzMALLY No.4701057]

>can't take the level drain
stay out of the 80s

[Anonymous No.4701087]

>>4701050
I love Zelda II and Ocarina of Time.
/gen x

[Anonymous No.4701120]

>>4701057
Some Wizardry games have monsters that drain a level on each hit that can hit up to like 5 times a round. Fun shit.

[Anonymous No.4701545]

>>4700960
This is good game design, though. It adds a fair challenge. I don't want to be the "git gud" guy, but your complaint is literally that the game is too difficult. Trying to build up XP and you keep getting hit by enemies that drain your XP? Try not getting hit lmao
The game isn't unfair. Its just hard.

[Anonymous No.4701616]

where do you think you are, OP? This is /vr/, where old shit games are considered good, and old good games are considered shit. Zelda 2 is basically christ-incarnate to 95% of the posters here.

[Anonymous No.4701620]

>>4701616
Reminder that Zelda II was never considered a bad game before the internet. It was highly praised upon release.

[Anonymous No.4701637]

Isn't this the game where you had to have prior knowledge on how to progress?

[Anonymous No.4701645]

>>4701637
Not really, but I can understand why people say that.

[Anonymous No.4701652]

>>4701637

Only thing I can think of is you have to have talked to Error before the quest relevant to him arrives, otherwise you don't know who Error is.

>>4701620

Wrong, it was hated when it came out and every gaming mag confirmed this. That's why they axed that formula and went back to the old one.

Zelda 2 would have tons of fans if it didn't have the name Zelda on the box, though.

[Anonymous No.4701656]

>>4701652

[Anonymous No.4701657]

>>4701620
Preach.

[Anonymous No.4701685]

>>4700964
I love the combat.

Everything else you said is correct.

[Anonymous No.4701835]

>>4701656
Told Status: No Country for Told Men

[Anonymous No.4701846]

>>4701656

No, anon, review scores don't mean anything.

If you read any mention of Zelda 2 in EGM during the 90s, it would have pointed out that the game was hated. Correctly. Because that's the popular consensus of the millions that played the game.

You're literally banking on video game reviews as a placeholder for the public's views.

[Anonymous No.4702121]

>>4701652
>>it was hated when it came out
Yeah that's why people wanted to get both Zelda 2 and Super Mario Bros. 2 in 1988 and demand was so big that there was a temporal shortage of NES cartridges that year. Now that I think about it, SMB2 also gets a lot of flack from "retro gamers" because of it being different from the first game.

Look kid, I and a lot of posters here as well probably don't care if you like those games as much but if you're going to post here then at least inform yourself instead of showing how much you parrot from other people on the internet.

[Anonymous No.4702156]

>>4701006
The thing is, the game doesn't suck. You do. I used to hate Zelda II until I actually gave it a chance and now it's one of my favorite games in the series precisely because it doesn't coddle me and every encounter is a rush.

[Anonymous No.4702193]

>>4702121
>Everybody wanted to get the sequel to The Legend of Zelda sight unseen, so it must have been a great game!
Yeah, just like the Phantom Menace was movie of the year, right?

[Anonymous No.4702263]

>>4702193
The game was widely beloved, but it was hard which at the time didn't matter.

[Anonymous No.4702281]

>>4700960
>I can't just grind till it's easy so this game sucks

Lol

[Anonymous No.4702305]

Just fucking dodge? Draining levels was a thing in old rpgs,At least here you can dodge because it's an action rpg

[Anon No.4702325]

>>4702193
>implying tpm wasn't LIT

[Anonymous No.4702335]

>>4700960
The hardest part about Zelda 2 is to not grab the crystal if you're more than halfway to your next level up, just go grind some ez shit. The best thing is the fire vulnerable jumpy things in the second landmass. They are right by a town and are a ton of xp. After you level up, go back and grab the crystal.

Or even save all the crystals for am end game run when the xp counts are over 7000.

Shouldn't really be a problem so long as you don't grab crystals when you're almost going to level up anyway. There is almost always a perfect number of enemies to level up between dungeons. You don't really need to work that hard

[Anonymous No.4702337]

Fun anecdote about this game. I was around 4 y/o fucking around on my 13 y/o brothers save file. Was in one of the dungeons and I decided to cast fairy and fly around, and ended up flying through one of the doors you need keys for. Seeing as how I played it quite a bit while he was in school I didn't think much of it, but when he came home one day and saw me do it it blew his mind realizing he could just bypass doors like that.
He ended up sending in this "tip" to Nintendo Power and ended up being featured in the magazine one month, and they gave him a free NES game for it. Totally ripped off my discovery and profited off it.
Anyone know if there are sites with scans of old Nintendo Powers? I'd kind of like to look it up since I haven't seen it in a few decades.

[Anonymous No.4702356]

>>4702337
>Anyone know if there are sites with scans of old Nintendo Powers? I'd kind of like to look it up since I haven't seen it in a few decades.
>https://archive.org/stream/Nintendo_Power_Issue001-Issue127/Nintendo%20Power%20Issue%20006%20May-June%201989#page/n57/mode/2up
Found it.

[Anonymous No.4702414]

>>4701545
It's not challenging, it's just tedious.

[Anonymous No.4702419]

>>4701846
>in 30 years, people will think Gone Home is a beloved classic because of its review scores

[Anonymous No.4702432]

>>4701013
Hope that's pasta

[Anonymous No.4702438]

>>4702156
>The thing is
The thing is, you're using the de facto defense of every apologist assclown who ever defended any shitty game ever made. No my friend, it's the game that sucks. There have been plenty of games that have driven me to the brink of insanity and I would still say I love them to death. Zelda 2 is not one of them. Zelda 2 isn't even particularly difficult. It just isn't fun. Zelda doesn't make a good sidescroller, the RPG elements are unnecessary, the graphics are washed out and almost depressing, the controls are poorly designed, the exploration is minimal, the blend of perspectives removes you from the experience, the overworld looks like steaming garbage, the game is riddled with typos and glitches... I could go on and on. If you want to delude yourself into thinking this is a good game just because you played it as a child, by all means, go ahead. But it's not. It's a piece of shit.

[Anonymous No.4702443]

>>4702438
I want to add, I really don't like the soundtrack for the game. It has an obnoxious overuse of vibrato, and the compositions are so mundane compared to the rest of the series. The original Zelda overworld theme evokes the sense of an epic adventure. The Zelda 2 overworld theme is more evocative of a Sunday afternoon stroll.

[Anonymous No.4702445]

>This game is different therefore I will not like it and neither can you

[Anonymous No.4702450]

>>4701846
You couldn't be more wrong. Zelda 2 was considered by critics and players alike to be one of the best NES games. The controversy didn't come until many years later when newfags saw Zelda 2 as the black sheep of the series because of some invisible standard of what a Zelda game is allegedly supposed to be.

[Anonymous No.4702453]

>>4702445
Yeah, no one said anything even remotely close to that though.

[Anonymous No.4702538]

>>4700960
>>4700964

I can understand that Zelda II is a game that has mixed feelings attached to it, but I really do enjoy the way it DOESN'T feel like all the other Zelda games in the series. The combat is honestly one of the greatest parts of the game, and the exploration is handled more in the dungeon segments than the over world. Don't get me wrong, there are still parts that make my blood boil, but overall, Zelda II is a game that grew on me as I got older and learned about all the game had to offer.

I find it funny that the first complaint is the experience draining enemies. Those things make no difference in the game whatsoever. Out of all the rage-inducing enemy designs from Zelda II, you probably picked the worst example.

[Anonymous No.4702587]

>>4700960
You complain about the level-draining enemies in Zelda 2? Fair enough...
Now, let me ask where your bitching is about the 'sword blocking' bubbles in Zelda 1, which you apparently love? 'Cause THOSE enemies are assholes.

[Anonymous No.4702607]

>>4702443
The palace theme is an obvious rip-off of the James Bond theme too

[Anonymous No.4702640]

>>4702587
In the second quest, those things can actually help out inadvertently, since they don't deal damage, but the player still gets an invincibility buffer after being hit by them. The second quest is really hard, and just overwhelms the player with blue darknuts and blue wizrobes, so the bubbles can offer reprieve in some circumstances. Putting them in the same room as like-likes is just fucking cruel though.

[Anonymous No.4702650]

>>4701013
pasta bait

[Anonymous No.4702813]

Zelda 2 is one of the best nes games, too complex for its time

[Anonymous No.4704497]

>>4700964
Jokes on you I don't like either Zelda 1 or 2. OoT is best.

[Anonymous No.4704763]

>>4702335
hi you are returning the crystals thats why they travel up the statue and start flashing instead of opposite travel direction also the number in the pause menu decreases

[Anonymous No.4704810]

>>4702813
I think ambitious is a better word for this instance. Some people got it, some didn't, with better hardware and a more fleshed out game more people would have got it.

[Anonymous No.4704991]

>Gruk no need play game
>Gruk get opinion on game from magic box person in glasses and patchy beard

[Anonymous No.4705232]

I've always unironically loved Zelda over any other Zelda game. The Tinsuits and dragonheads are designed to keep you on your toes while you're in the palaces. Once you get the rhythm down, they never hit you again.

>>4701057
It works because vampires are intended to be a terrifying opponent and at higher levels going "vampire hunting" was a thrilling adventure. Besides, any DM worth his salt is only going to drain a level or 2 in an entire party just to put the fear of Jesus in you.

[Anonymous No.4705597]

Zelda 2 is bad. The concept of Zelda 2 is not. I found games similar to it that are great. Maybe I'm too charitable, but I consider Wonder Boy in Monster World to be like Zelda 2 and that game is fine as fuck.

[Anonymous No.4705628]

>>4705597
you might be lil puss puss my guy

[babbage's gramps !RATGzMALLY No.4705684]

>>4705232
Biggest problem is the plain vampire being chaotic. Strahd rarely uses his physical attacks mainly because he doesn't want to create too many other vampires, but random encounters with 1-4 of them can and should run the risk of wiping a party that was dumb enough to be in the wilderness at night or a deep enough dungeon level - or seeking them out without scarabs of protection. I do let them get their levels back if they kill the undead that took them (vampires and the like being very hard to actually kill) and I let Restoration restore all lost levels since unless they're stockpiling wishes (which they never do) it's so rare and expensive to have performed (and only on one character every few weeks of game time).

[Anonymous No.4705730]

>>4701054
Link to the Past is the most essential

[Rob1billion No.4705869]

After reading the comments, I think the pros made a better argument than the cons. Especially the dude talking about link's movement and momentum. Z2 did have some good battle dynamics. I remember the music being a bit cheesey, and I didn't like it as a kid, but going back to it now I see it is a great game. And hell, why knock them for trying something different? We got our full of the top-view games in 1 and 3.

[Anonymous No.4706068]

>>4705869
I always say the same thing, go look at any game reviews back when it came out and most people who shit on it are shitbabies that are pissed that this Zelda game is different from later entries in a game that has become painfully formulaic over the years.

[Anonymous No.4706096]

>>4705869
After seeing that you are a namefag, it's easy to disregard your opinion and use your very existence as further evidence for why Zelda 2 is a piece of shit.

[Anonymous No.4706123]

>>4700960
>yfw even miyamoto doesn't like Zelda 2

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/06/shigeru_miyamoto_wishes_nintendo_had_done_more_with_zelda_ii

[Anonymous No.4706209]

>>4702450
Pfffft, where you get your argument, avgn?

[Anonymous No.4706262]

>>4700960
GIT GUD

[Anonymous No.4706267]

I honestly never knew there were enemies like that. Goes to show how insignificant your point is. I hope you’re not just grinding to level up...

[Anonymous No.4706279]

Zelda 2 is pretty okay, brutally difficult in some spots and pretty unforgiving, but the combat is pretty great once you get the downstab and start pogofucking most monsters to death.

[Anonymous No.4706284]

>>4706267
Yeah dude, those red hopping jackal bastards that spawn infinitely in the first temple? They deplete XP on contact.
Those big flying eyeballs drain XP too

[Anonymous No.4706436]

>>4706123
>http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/06/shigeru_miyamoto_wishes_nintendo_had_done_more_with_zelda_ii
>miyamoto doesn't like Zelda 2
>"a game I think we could have done more with was Zelda II: The Adventure of Link."

He doesn't state he didn't like working on it or that he regrets making it to begin with. At most he wrote that he and his team wished they could do more but were limited by the hardware and they'd wish to continue it (this in case the article you sent here is as real as it pretends to be). Did you even read it yourself before linking it here?

I believe it would be very interesting if Nintendo actually made a new game in the style of Zelda 2 but I'm afraid most fans wouldn't want that and Nintendo knows it won't sell enough to cut the losses on development on such a project.

[Anonymous No.4707098]

>>4706436
>I believe it would be very interesting if Nintendo actually made a new game in the style of Zelda 2
Hoenstly, isn't the play style of the new, 3d Zeldas pretty much a fusion of classic Zelda style and Zelda 2? I don't know what else Z2-style combat would look like in an age of 3d platforming 2bh

Like in a way the platforming in Zelda 2 was a kind of... unconscious way of compensating for the fact that the tech wasn't there to do seamless yet? Idk how to express it properly but I hope you see what I'm grasping after.

[Anonymous No.4707102]

>>4700960
>game to hoard
>i caint react fast nuff yo

[Anonymous No.4707719]

>>4702356

Haha that's awesome dude. I remember being totally obsessed in middle school with this game. Being in class and just scheming what I was going to do next when I got home to play it. I can't remember if I ever beat it though.

[Anonymous No.4708727]

>>4700969
>worse than 1 in almost every way.
That doesn't make it shit, that makes it worse than 1. Legend of Zelda is fucking amazing and most games are worse than it.

[Anonymous No.4708745]

>>4707098
I can see wat you're getting at with the Z-targeting system and the sword fighting, which are both introduced in OoT and used in every 3D Zelda after it but none of the 3D games feel as challenging as the (older) top down Zeldas. Not saying that a game has to be very challenging to be good but I feel that with the first two Zelda games the challenge actually made it much more satisfying to beat them.

Other Zelda 2 staples like the leveling up system and spells like fairy never saw a return in any Zelda game but to be honest, even I am not sure if they should be all used again. The medallions in LttP and some of the new items in OoT more or less cover most of the attacking magic spells and because of the upgradeable equipment and more use of key weapons like the hookshot, the bow, the boomerang and tons of other items it might make several parts of Zelda 2 feel obsolete for later games. Sure, they might have done it that way with Zelda 2 because of the limitations but maybe that's why it's so much harder for newer Zelda fans to get into the second game because it feels so different for them, even if Z2 itself would also be a huge influence to the later games.
Like it was said before, it would be cool if they did a Zelda 2 sequel/re-imagining but with the possibility to use both more items/weapons and still have a big focus on exploring, visiting several towns and having challenging sword battles from the original game. It'll probably only exist in my dreams for now but man, I'm sure a lot of older Zelda fans would love something like that.

[Anonymous No.4708754]

I recently beat this fucker again about three weeks ago.
It's amazing how tight the controls are. The game feels well-put together. And the fighting is, as other people say, pretty damn evolved for an NES game.
Link to the Past doesn't have combat programming that good.

[Anonymous No.4708861]

>>4708745
>maybe that's why it's so much harder for newer Zelda fans to get into the second game because it feels so different for them
I pretty much think the biggest reason more modern players can't get into games like Zelda 2 or Kid Icarus is because of the fact that nothing drops health. Your mistakes matter a lot more when healing is rare (or perceived as rare).
One thing that a lot of people fail to do with Zelda 2 is use their magic. Unlike the original's "tenth enemy" kill counter, Zelda 2 has a VERY obvious method of determining drops, so blue potion bottles will litter your adventure so you can keep casting Shield or Reflect. But these people ignore any spell that isn't Life.

[Anonymous No.4708927]

zelda 2 inspired pic related
try it if you like zelda 2
inb4 not retro

[Anonymous No.4709053]

>>4708861
how is "sixth enemy" kill counter VERY obvious while "tenth enemy" is not?

[Anonymous No.4709086]

>>4706279
Downthrust isn't that helpful compared to the mighty crouching-jump-stab; hits a darknutty shieldy boi e'rrytime. Just gotta get a 'lil crouch goin', jump, and as ye come down like thunda, ye stab the bitchies.

[Anonymous No.4709091]

>>4709053
Because enemies in Zelda 2 don't drop anything EXCEPT at the sixth killed. Meanwhile Zelda 1 has it so enemies both randomly drop AND the tenth enemy kill only happens if you kill ten enemies without getting hit.

[Anonymous No.4710369]

>>4705730
Nah, that's Majora's Mask, despite being removed from Hyrule, Zelda, Ganon, and the Triforce. ALTTP has a dense overworld, clever dungeons and a better balance of gameplay and story progression, while OOT has great atmosphere, deeper combat and more gameplay mechanics. MM has all of these things, and is the quintessential Zelda game.

[Anonymous No.4710372]

>>4706436
>Did you even read it yourself before linking it here?
No, I was shitposting.

[Anonymous No.4710374]

>>4710369
>linear shit
Majora's Mask is a neat spinoff but a lousy Zelda.