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/vr/ - Retro Games

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File: 2.92 MB, 1000x750, quake.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4678081 No.4678081 [Reply] [Original]

why do saturn games warp like this?

>> No.4678104

Cuz the saturn sucks

>> No.4678106

>>4678104
Saturnfags can never recover from this

>> No.4678110

Has to do with the graphics. One of the many reasons the saturn sucks

>> No.4678127

>>4678110
No shit? I thought it was related to sound...

>> No.4678141

>>4678110
>Has to do with the graphics.
I would have never guessed.

>> No.4678185

I don't know and I don't care. It's a fun game.

>> No.4678230

ps1 and many pc games from the time do it too

>> No.4678237

>>4678081
Division is an expensive operation.

The same problem, more or less, exists on other consoles.

>> No.4678268

>>4678110
really made me think

>> No.4678283

Affline texture mapping. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuH7RDIDZN4 for an unrealistically extreme example

>> No.4679453

>>4678081
https://youtu.be/VutzIK3DqZE?t=217
This has a good explanation (starting at around 3:30)

>> No.4679515

Probably something related to the wizardy required to get Quake running on the Saturn

>> No.4681094

Saturn "models" are actually just collections of sprites being distorted by the GPU. It's somewhere between modern 3D rendering techniques and what the Super Nintendo did with mode 7

>> No.4681382

>>4681094
>It's somewhere between modern 3D rendering techniques and what the Super Nintendo did with mode 7
VDP1 (the thing that makes polygons) is nothing like Mode 7. That's VDP2.

>> No.4681538
File: 92 KB, 867x366, tdsrbidkeastdi.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4681538

>>4681094

>> No.4682213

>>4681094
You can as well say that all 3D games are “just collections of sprites being distorted”, and that these sprites are called “textures”.

That video is not actually a good explanation. This link (from a quick google search) is better: >>/vr/thread/3200690

>> No.4682872

It's a problem with the 3d graphics, they're not 100% accurate

>> No.4682892
File: 152 KB, 564x1166, 1458895835362.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4682892

Similar but not identical reasons to PS1

>> No.4682895

>>4682213
>You can as well say that all 3D games are “just collections of sprites being distorted”, and that these sprites are called “textures”
no, really, a funky trick of the saturn hardware is that it was using the sprite registers and deforming them still on the 2d plane to emulate polygons, as opposed to the PS1 which handles polygons in 3d space and then projects them on the 2d plane. It's a really interesting difference in terms of hardware design and unrelated to affine texturing, which is the cause of texture swimming on the PS1.

>> No.4682902

>>4682895
Yeah, but it also pains me when Saturn fans try to say that Saturn did more perspective correct textures than PS1.

It was also just as prone to warping but in different ways and different places.

>> No.4683414

>>4682902
Oh yeah, sure. The end result was just affine quads rather than affine triangles like the PS1, plus some funky unique glitches due to how sprites interact differently from triangle lists..

>> No.4683483

>>4678230
I've seen this yesterday on Kingsfield(II).

>> No.4683489

Blast processing

>> No.4683542
File: 167 KB, 1000x1334, 2D_affine_transformation_matrix.svg.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4683542

>>4682895
Ah, I see that you still got the wrong impression from that incomplete and misleading video example.

Both triangles and quadrilaterals are polygons, there was nothing to “emulate”. Many consoles and first generation PC 3D accelerators from companies well known and long forgotten used quads for surface units. It is easy to guess they all leaned towards universal accelerated processing pipeline for both traditional 2D spritework and 3D effects.

No matter how you theoretically imagine the polygon projection process, it is always implemented as matrix multiplications, because it's the least computationally expensive method. You can visualize those as a composition of affine transformations that are applied to original “flat” sprite (quad) or half-sprite (triangle) to make it appear at the proper place, angle, and size on the screen. While vertex coordinates are calculated properly on all systems (though with different precision), repeating the same calculation for each textured pixel inside the polygon would result in either performance hit, or significant increase in hardware requirements (and price) because it spends many CPU cycles on division. A simplified rasterization algorithm is used after vertex coordinates are calculated for that reason (and also for other factors like memory access optimization, benefit from specific processor instructions available, caching, etc.).

So, big quads and triangles without perspective correction all wobble on all these systems. Also, all of them can eqally be called “sprite manipulation engines”.

Check these nice tutorials:
http://www.scratchapixel.com/lessons/3d-basic-rendering/perspective-and-orthographic-projection-matrix
http://www.scratchapixel.com/lessons/3d-basic-rendering/rasterization-practical-implementation