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4604360 No.4604360 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

No love for Heretic/HeXen series?
They were the first FPS to include inventory, looking up and down, environmental sounds, flying, and were the first true DooM clones.
Their last game was from 20 years ago, and Activision are using the original developers to produce shitty CoD games nowadays. It really makes me sad…

>> No.4604392

>>4604360
I wish I could say I liked HeXen, but there's the point where navigating labyrinths and flipping switches isn't fun anymore.

>> No.4604431
File: 287 KB, 891x689, Hexen Maniac.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4604431

>>4604360
Hexen is my favorite game of all time.

>>4604392
Hexen requires a different mindset to enjoy fully. For me I love exploration and revisiting old areas, so Hexen is right up my alley; that and I just love the setting, atmosphere, melee/magic weapons, and so on. If you go into thinking it's Doom then you're going to be disappointed.

>> No.4604454

>>4604431
>using the numpad for the directionals

>> No.4604483
File: 2.33 MB, 640x360, 2017-02-25-0939-53_2.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4604483

>>4604360

>> No.4604558
File: 8 KB, 51x71, The Fighter Stride.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4604558

>>4604483
>shield
>no lightning enchantment on Timon's Axe
Gross.

>> No.4604562

>>4604360
I love Heretic, I play it on GZDoom with some crazy mods and it's awesome.
Hexen is a mess, I don't know who did the maps, but they are really bad.

>> No.4604860

>>4604360
it's pretty cool

>> No.4605109

>>4604558

Its the old Brutal Hexen Fighter mod, it makes a bunch of changes to Baratus. Its development was scrapped well before it could be fleshed out enough, sadly.

>> No.4605395

Hexen 2 is really good, but it does have even more cryptic stuff than the first one (not in quantity maybe, but in how cryptic they are).

The first part of the game is actually the worse, although the quadrant shit in Egypt is also some bs

Still a great game though

the addon is really cool too and isn't as cryptic, although iirc the new character is op as fuck

>> No.4605414

running back and forth the level with samey looking texture to find a hidden switch sure is fun

if they wanted to capture experience of playing a dungeon crawler using doom engine and gameplay, they nailed it

>> No.4605586

>>4604392
"Just do X and you will enjoy it". It sounded so logical a while back. Now it feels like people are just mocking me. I am not even sure if this game can truly be enjoyed or if it is a device used to torture unfortunate people like myself. I have been contemplating suicide a lot more, but the effort is too much and I would fail anyway, then I would get people upset at me for being closed minded and not appreciating Hexen.

>>4604431
Except Hexen lacks those exact things in my eyes. I love exploration, I play games for the sole reason of exploring a world and becoming better acquainted. I love to write text documents of various games, exploring the world and detailing how everything works together. It is even better with mods, expanding the world further. Doesn't matter if the mod is garbage, in a great game I will still love the base gameplay and add it to my internal lore.

Hexen, as the other anon said, is literal labyrinths. There is no exploration to be had. I also can't really rest and explore, the game just keeps bombarding you with enemies constantly that tell you "keep going, you need to beat the boss at the end, why are you trying to stare at the geometry? Here, have some enemies because of your ineptitude.". I get no relaxation, no ability to appreciate the world, I just get a conveyor belt ride through hell with a bunch of dead ends and tiny little buttons I need to find in order to continue my way to ending my hell.

Revisiting old areas could be fine... if those old areas weren't spewing things constantly. I loathe fantasy, I never could get into Lord of the Rings and absolutely hate Wheel of Time. The stress means no atmosphere. The weapons all feel the same, point and shoot, or click and punch.

I also hate Doom. My problem might be that the game is too much like Doom on permanent nightmare mode with LOTR crammed in there.

>> No.4605624

>>4605586
Jesus Christ.

>> No.4605642

>>4605586
>I hate Doom
>I hate fantasy settings
Why are you in this thread, exactly? To say the game lacks exploration is a lie because you need to do just that to find the keys/switches in order to, you know, progress in the game. There's also secret levels that need specific actions taken in order to unlock them and if you miss it the first time then it locks all future secret levels, incentivizing exploration, which in turn leads you to more resources.

Also the game spawns in a single ettin into your current level ever minute or so, how is that even remotely stressful and reminiscent of Nightmare Doom? Hexen's weapons are more creative than most of its competitors at the time. Look at Doom for instance, nothing there comes close to the Arc of Death, Firestorm, Frost Shards, or Wraithverge.

>> No.4605665

>>4605642
>Why are you in this thread exactly?
I don't have many passions. It is easier for me to talk about things I hate than things I like. So it becomes a good conversation piece to go to things I loathe and discuss them.

>You need to do just that
Wandering around aimlessly in similar looking mazes isn't exploration. When I can tell up ahead what the environment is going to look like, that isn't real exploration, but just a tedious maze.

>Secret Levels
Aka more mazes. There is nothing intriguing or even gimmicky about them. Nothing in any of the secret levels is in any way memorable (I went through them all and yet can barely remember them).

>Every minute or so
It sure feels faster than that. Even so, every minute is still too quick. Take a bit of time to look around, suddenly I have to deal with ettins everywhere. And obviously you aren't referring to the Deathkings expansion, where they made things all the more miserable with spawning.

>At the time
Sure. But today there is little reason to go back to it. We have moved on to better things. And the things here come off as very limited.

>Those weapons
I had to look up those weapons as I forgot they even existed. Because of the constant respawning enemies, I became stressed and realized I couldn't keep wasting mana, so I quickly started savescumming my way through the game with the Mace of Contrition. I gave up with the Mage, I couldn't play without melee and it was point and shoot anyway, and Baratus' Gauntlets were pretty much the Doom fist.

>> No.4605676

>>4604360
I had the shareware episode of Heretic and loved it but I usually just played with cheats. When I finally played the full game, I didn't it as much. Had more monsters and a darker environment to the first episode. Similar experiences with Doom too. First episode is the most enjoyable.

>> No.4605724

>>4605665
>Wandering around aimlessly
It's not aimless, you know what you need to do you just don't know where exactly you need to go, aka you're exploring.

>Aka more mazes
No, m8, you seriously don't know what you're going on about. Also how could you not remember the Orchard of Lamentation secret level? It's a single room with a gimmick where you need to kill a certain number of enemies before Korax traps you in the level forever until you die. If that's not a gimmick than I don't know what is.

>It sure feels faster than that
According to various wikis it's actually every 4 minutes an Ettin respawns. And Ettin, the most pathetic enemy in the game, every 4min; god forbid.

>Sure. But today there is little reason to go back to it
What are you even talking about? Hexen's arsenal is still one of the more unique ones even today. Even the new Doom is still pretty stock standard by comparison, same goes for the SW reboot and sequel, the new Wolfenstein games, etc.

>I had to look up those weapons as I forgot they even existed
Well that's your fault for being stupid. Sorry but that's the truth. Hexen throws mana at you like it's going out of style, be it in the form of mana pickups are kraters of might littering the ground. The only time I every use the Mace is to break vases and shit, running out of mana using Timon's Axe or the Serpent Staff is nigh impossible.

>> No.4605727

>>4605724
>Orchard of Lamentation
Sacred Grove, my mistake.

>> No.4605828

>>4604360
shit games, always have been

COD is better than Hexen/Heretic so that's an improvement on the use of the devs.

>> No.4605832

>>4605724
>Not aimless
Unless the clues aren't exactly clear on what is needed to be done, like the first puzzle.

>You seriously don't know what you're going on about
Completely forget the level. Killing enemies and trying to rush things just feels normal in Hexen.

>Your fault for being stupid
Except when all the spawning enemies makes it so you keep running out of mana. It just seems logical that when things keep respawning you conserve everything for the final boss. Which was rather easy.

>> No.4605837

>>4605828
I thought /vr/ was better than this?

>> No.4605858

>>4605828
Hey, they also produced Solder of Fortune, Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raven_Software

>> No.4605865

yep pretty much agree
heretic-good frenetic fast paced dungeon crawling fun

heretic levels that dont really feel rewarding with a very slow drip feed of items and hard to navigate levels

i did play heretic as a kid and not hexen so maybe some bias but heretic is still fun with some mods vanilla isnt bad either i kind of find some of the weapons a bit average though

>> No.4605876

>>4605865
Yeah the game relies a bit too much on the Tome of Power to make the weapons more interesting. Otherwise they are pretty much stock Doom weapon reskins, except for the bouncing mace balls.

>> No.4605897

>>4605876
Firemace was intended to work the same way as the beta BFG

>> No.4605912

Hexen is my favorite first person shooter. I love the world-building, the puzzles, and the art design. Best oldschool version is the N64 port, which has way better graphics than the DOS original, but these days play it on a high resolution Doom sourceport. Looks great.

>> No.4605954

>>4604562
Reverse Heretic and Hexen in that statement and you have my sentiments re: maps.

>> No.4606001
File: 98 KB, 640x480, Heretic_E3L2_2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4606001

>>4604360
Ep.3 of Heretic was god-tier.

>> No.4606003
File: 253 KB, 1280x1024, Heretic-e3m4-pool.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4606003

>>4606001

>> No.4606043

Has anyone ever tried adding levels and enemies from Heretic or Hexan back into Doom since they use the same engine? Would be surprised if noone ever thought of combining doom, heretic, hexan and strife assets.

>> No.4606052

>>4605897
That actually makes sense, I always wondered why it functioned the way it did. I still do kind of wonder though. What would go through someone's head to make them think "Hey, I'm going to make a mace except it spins and shoots bouncy balls"

>> No.4606059

>>4606043
I think there was a thing for that. Not sure about Strife tho.

>> No.4606089

>>4604360
There's a whole general thread tfor that.
The so called Doom General actually extends to Heretic, Duke, Blood and Hexen too.

>> No.4606090

>>4606089
Nobody talks about Heretic/Hexen there and when they do they generally shit on it.

>> No.4606127

>>4606001
>playing on sourceports
>being this fag
Also, did you know there are even two additional episodes on the Shadow of the Serpent Riders version, and three secret levels accessed only by the cheat code engage 61, 62 or 63?

>> No.4606170

>>4605665
If this isn't bait then I genuinely feel bad for you.

>> No.4606213

>>4604360
They're among my favorite games of all time. I still listen to the music occasionally. Raven produced some really nice artwork.

>> No.4606236
File: 64 KB, 379x381, 11235813.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4606236

>>4606213
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_E4Ek8kKnU
>last difficulty level
>final boss D'Sparil
>hard as fuck
>impossible to beat without using an invincibility ring
>this music start playing

>> No.4606237
File: 227 KB, 557x605, 1457879340112.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4606237

>>4606213
>The Docks
>D'Sparil's Keep
>Ice Grotto
>Winnowing Hall
>Guardian of Fire
>Zedek's Tomb

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv9rZVsOknE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fispefQPGw

>> No.4606263

I love Heretic. One strong point compared to Doom is how cool the bosses, having multiple attacks and varied movement instead of just being lumbering "shoot until it dies" monsters or a shitty puzzle (Icon Of Sin). Also unlike most Doom clones it had very good level design.

>> No.4606487
File: 485 KB, 712x550, heretic_monsters__maulotaur_by_liamythesh-d4wxvnx.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4606487

>>4606263
Maulotaurs are the shit!

>> No.4606686
File: 2.51 MB, 1524x2000, baron_of_hell_colored_by_kracov-d6c5305.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4606686

>>4606487
I've always liked Maulotaurs more than Doom's Barons of Hell. They even feel like a spiritual successor to them.

>> No.4606939

I'd like a game like Hexen that had the environmental ethos of Dark Souls: Backtracking and shortcuts and switches, but through an interconnected, coherent space.

>> No.4606946

>>4606487

When I was little nothing made me more scared than being pounded by a maulotaur.

>> No.4606998

>>4606263
this, D'Sparil is awesome

>> No.4607009

>>4604431
you're not the only one.

>>4605727
every hub has a hidden level: bright crucible, sacred grove, deathwind chapel, desolate garden, and vivarium.
for desolate garden, you need to have visited bright crucible and sacred grove in order to open the portal.

>> No.4607029

>>4605832
>Except when all the spawning enemies makes it so you keep running out of mana.
no, you don't keep running out lol. what are you talking about?
the game spawns ettins one at a time intermittently, which should not be stressful at all, especially in an FPS. maybe you just can't into video games.

>> No.4607045

>>4604431
If Hexen's weapons were better I'd probably like it more.

>> No.4607046

>>4607045
the weapons work fine, the only issue is that your arsenal feels limited.

>> No.4607048

>>4607046
Probably. I was playing the Mage and it felt so unsatisfying to be forced to go back to the plinker so often.

>> No.4607058

>>4607048
I sort of know what you mean. but maybe you were having problems using frost shards properly. you should attack with them either at mid range or point blank range.
at close range, the shards dont finish spawning and you wont get a full blast. too far away, they scatter too widely. at midrange, they'll all spawn and mostly hit your target. at point blank, you get the 'frost touch' melee attack, which does more damage than all of the shards connecting. I can kill an ettin in 2 hits using frost touch.
it's a finicky weapon, and somewhat inferior to the other blue mana weapons, but it can still be effective if you wield it properly. if you find yourself relying on the wand too much, maybe you didnt realize about frost touch or the midrange sweet-spot.
also, arc of destruction is easily the best third weapon in the game, it can tear through centaurs in particular.

>> No.4607087

>>4606946
Now nothing turns me on more

>> No.4607104

Like Heretic, LOVE Hexen 1 and 2, didn't play much Heretic 2.

>> No.4607341
File: 763 KB, 640x480, 1502876942163.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4607341

>>4607048
>>4607058
I love the Mage's weapons, they're all useful depending on the situation.

>Sapphire Wand for long ranged combat vs. groups of enemies, particularly enemies grouped up / in hallways
>Frost Shards for melee combat in tight corridors to pump out Timon's Axe damage and create ice shields for defense
>Arc of Death of more open ended areas, since the lightning dissipates if it collides with a wall, to melt anything it touches
>Bloodscourge for mass death in close to mid range

I noticed Frost Shards are incredibly strong in deathmatch since players have less health than monsters.

>> No.4607375

>>4607104
Heretic 2 shouldn't even exist. They turned Corvus into some acrobatics monkey rather than an actual mage elf.
Also talking Tomes O'Power? Fuck this shit!

>> No.4607395

>>4607375
Heretic 2 was excellent, even if the story sucked. Also Corvus wasn't a mage or even a soldier, he was just a random civilian that took up arms against D'Sparil; it's worth noting that he doesn't have any latent magical prowess in Heretic 1 as his entire arsenal comprises of enchanted weapons and he himself doesn't cast a single spell.

His abilities are pretty much up for interpretation. You could argue that he learned martial combat during his time wandering conquered worlds after being cursed, leading to him upgrade his staff with the blade as he may not have been able to acquire the ammunition required for his other weapons.

>> No.4607601

>>4605828
made me reply

>> No.4608256

>>4606090
Nobody ever shat on Heretic.
Doom community accept it as a pretty good game.

>> No.4608258

>>4606236
>completely butchered by default windows soundfont

>> No.4608398

Hexen was good but Heretic is still one of my favorite games and is right up there with Doom II. Of course you’d have to play all the campaigns on Black Plague Possesses Thee to get the full enjoyment out of it. Too bad the sequel was a third person nightmare. I would love to see new wads for the first Heretic though, but it doesn’t seem to have the same community as Doom still has.

>> No.4608492

>>4604360
It's cool.

>> No.4608526

>>4608258
You mean you prefer this version?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmcF1msVRuY

>> No.4608586

>>4606059

Samsara has a monster mixer addon that lets you put each monster type into each game (doom/doom2/heretic/hexen/strife/chex) and even cvar them with a randomizer.

Heretical Doom also has a monster addon that replaces the vanilla monsters in doom and hereti with beefed up heretic versions..

there are probably others, thats all I can think of atm.

>> No.4608589

>>4606127

Sourceports can improve the original IWADS immensely if you use pk3's that actually improve aspects of the game. If you use the sprite blurry ass filters tho you should die

>> No.4608886

>>4608586
Samsara looked so promising. Too bad it got discontinued...

>> No.4608894

>>4607046
>the weapons work fine, the only issue is that your arsenal feels limited.

yeah they probably shoulda made it 1 character class with all 12 weapons. 4 at a time felt annoyingly restrictive for the fighter and mage, and like ball torture for the fuckin cleric.

>> No.4608906

>>4604360
Not to be a total normie but check out Autumn Night on steam. Spiritual indie successor to Hexen from our soviet friends

>> No.4608929

>>4608906
Thanks for the tip!
I've also heard Ziggurat drew heavy inspiration from this series…

>> No.4609102

>>4608929
Ziggurat is nothing like Heretic/Hexen whatsoever.

>> No.4609383

>>4609102
Hmm I read the reviews and they mention them a lot…

>> No.4609905

>>4609383
Yeah, I know, I read and was told the same thing until I tried it. Ziggurat is horde shooter like SS/PK/etc with a fantasy skin. It features the Serpent Staff from Hexen but that's it.

>> No.4610854 [DELETED] 

>>4607341
indeed, I forgot to mention using frozen enemies as tactical shields, always useful. while arc of destruction dissipates against walls, that limitation is only there so it's not completely broken. sapphire wand is situationally useful throughout the game.

the Mage is effective, you just have to know how to use him properly. for new players I'd recommend using fighter first, since he's beginner friendly and powers through the early hubs. once you're more familiar with the game, the mage is a good choice.

and yes, deathmatch is a little unbalanced because your damage output is keyed towards enemies who generally have more health than you (eg an ettin has 175 hp, even a dark bishop has 130).

>> No.4610860

>>4607341
indeed, I forgot to mention using frozen enemies as tactical shields, always useful. while arc of destruction dissipates against walls, that limitation is only there so it's not completely broken. sapphire wand is situationally useful throughout the game.

the Mage is effective, you just have to know how to use him properly. for new players I'd recommend using fighter first, since he's beginner friendly and powers through the early hubs. once you're more familiar with the game, the mage is a good choice.

and yes, deathmatch is a little unbalanced because your damage output is keyed towards the enemies who mostly have more health than you (eg an ettin has 175 hp, even a dark bishop has 130).

>> No.4610919

>>4604360
I thought they were cool in the 90's, but i dont remember why...

>> No.4611224

>>4609383
Heretic is a maze-fps in the veins of Doom, distinguished by its good handcrafted levels that were made with more limited texture set.

Ziggurat is a horde shooter with boring proc-gen levels and rogue-lite elements.

>>4604360
Heretic is still my favourite of all Doom-engine games. I like the combination of great dark-fantasy aestethics and Doom formula being kept intact with some fairly minor additions.

Really hope that Amid Evil turns out good - I liked what I saw so far.

>> No.4611275

Did Hexen and Heretic have no vertical mouselook like Doom?

>> No.4611325

>>4604360
> looking up and down
I'm pretty sure Marathon did that first or am I wrong?

>> No.4611337

>>4604360
>They were the first FPS to include inventory, looking up and down, environmental sounds, flying

wut

>> No.4611356

>>4611337
It was Ultima Underworld.

>> No.4611536

I played the hell out of the shareware of Heretic as a kid. Got around to playing it fully not long ago and I had a blast. E3 really amazed me especially.

I really wanted to love Hexen but some puzzles were really frustrating. The weapons were great but felt too limited. It felt sometimes as if they decided to take one fully loaded character and split them up into 4 just for the sake of it.

I remember someone buying Hexen 64 when I was younger and I only managed to beat it recently. I had a blast playing with friends tho.

>> No.4611636

>>4611356
UUW is not FPS tho. And it renders into a 1/3 size screen window, giving it much more performance leeway to do things.
Most of the technical limitations of the Doom engine were there to ensure maximum FPS which was important for a shooter, but less so for an RPG.

>>4611325
At the same time, they released 2 days apart.
Also Marathon has much shittier leveldesign.

>> No.4611978
File: 123 KB, 773x506, what le fug problelm.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4611978

what le fug were their problem??

>> No.4612127

>>4611636
>Also Marathon has much shittier leveldesign.
Brainlet

>> No.4612241

>>4612127
>perpetually cramped areas with no distinctive features
>clashing color palettes
>misaligned textures fucking everywhere
iGamers defend this

>> No.4612467

>>4612241
>>perpetually cramped areas with no distinctive features
Brainlet
>>clashing color palettes
Only the Pfhor ship in M2 had bad coloring, but at least Marathon had color unlike most retro FPS
>>misaligned textures fucking everywhere
You're actually right about this one

>> No.4612568
File: 497 KB, 985x702, what le fug problelm doomsday engine.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4612568

okay i downloaded Doomsday now i ask again
what le fug were their problem!?! roo

>> No.4612578

>>4612568
You'd be mad too if you were undead.

>> No.4612585

>>4612467
Marathon is overrated garbage by Halo kiddies and Mac fans, it sucks, get over it. You millennial Gen Z Redditor piece of ass.

>> No.4612604
File: 438 KB, 2016x1246, 1465196230125.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4612604

Never forget.

>> No.4612639

>>4612585
>overrated
It's literally never discussed anywhere on the internet.
>You millennial Gen Z Redditor piece of ass
Calm down before you have a heart attack

>> No.4612640

>>4608526
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv9rZVsOknE

>> No.4612689

I'm playing heretic now and the game has stairs and raising platforms and other obstacles where height is the main issue, so why is there no jumping allowed?
?? obviously the engine could support jumping, why would they intentionally not add jumping to the game?

>> No.4612691
File: 73 KB, 290x200, 1495680665525.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4612691

>>4604360
Where can I get Hexen without subjecting myself to shitty Steam or downloading it illegally? I'd love to play it again but gog.com doesn't sell it and I don't know where else to go.

>> No.4612697
File: 1.99 MB, 352x264, 1518013202394.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4612697

>>4605665
Came just to say that I'm literally lol'ing at your life for being "stressed" by fucking Ettins. I mean, holy fuck man how shit are you at games that a piss easy enemy that can barely hit you stresses you out? Just, what?

>> No.4612717

>>4611275
That is correct, you could look up and down with the keyboard. Mouse was movement and turning only, no mouselook option.

>> No.4612723

>>4611275
very annoying, but doomsday engine has mouselook support for heretic
i'm loving it ahah

>> No.4612726

>>4612689
It was only added on HeXen.

>> No.4612734

i'm sorta disappointed how important the graphic upgrade of using a modern sourceport of heretic is, it makes things a lot easier to see and understand.
but graphics aren't that important right? hahaha

>>4612726
i look forward to hexen then but i started a blind playthrough of heretic first!

>> No.4612750

>>4612640
It sounds like shit.
The original version of this music is much better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1ZV7LCM3Nc

>> No.4612759

>>4612734
if you're really gonna bitch about graphics go play PUBG

>> No.4612763

How do I play Hexen with zdoom?

>> No.4612768

>>4612763
put hexen.wad in the same directory, click on gzdoom.exe

>> No.4612791

>>4612768
Cool, thank you. Now how can I make seperate folders for each game so clicking the exe starts the respective game rather than asking me to choose between them? I tried copying the folder and just removing my Doom 2 wad but it still asks which I want to play.

>> No.4612818

>>4612689
>obviously the engine could support jumping, why would they intentionally not add jumping to the game
The engine could handle jumping in the sense that it would have been possible for them to code it in. But they didn't do so until Hexen. It's not like there was a jumping system and Doom and Heretic just intentionally didn't use it.

>> No.4612840

Man, Hexen is such a cool game. I first played it about a year ago after picking up a copy for the N64 on a whim. I fell in love and recently started playing the PC version for the full experience. I always wished for a game that had swords and sorcery in first person like TES, but without all of the dialogue and questing, and I finally found it. I love the blend of combat, exploration and puzzle solving. Really just a cool little game.

>> No.4612887

>>4612818
i agree but this was a definitely design choice; why would you (the programmers) want a game without jumping?

>> No.4612897

>>4612840
N64 is the PC experience, but with better default controls and texture filtering.

>> No.4612925

>>4612897
>default controls
as if any PC player ever uses default anything
>and texture filtering
So, it's worse than PC experience then?

>> No.4612930

>>4612925
You ever play Hexen in 320x240 bro? It isn't a pretty sight. I originally discovered it on PC, but never beat it till i got the N64 version because I got headaches from the pixel shifting when I played too long on PC.

>> No.4612947

>>4612897
The N64 version is pretty faithful and cool in its own right, but the PC versions absolutely shits on it if you play with zdoom. Love being able to play with a 360 game pad and having a solid framerate.

Also, the N64 controls were retarded. Having to strafe by holding down Z, which is also how you have to switch between items, but you can't circle strafe unless you use the d-pad setup, which then has an even more retarded way to use items, and you can't look up or down without using the fuck d-pad on analog setup or by holding a button on the d-pad setup. Just a total mess.

>> No.4612948

>>4612887
To make a game simpler. Remember, this was the time when KB+M was not the norm, and people were used to a different control scheme, that didn't leave much room for quickly accessible jump button. I remember having trouble adjusting to Quake and for quite some time I played it with keyboard only, until I got into its multiplayer.

>>4612930
I've had PC since '93 (had spectrum prior to that) and I played most FPS games upon their releases since I was really into them back then. So yes, I played Hexen at 320x200 and had no trouble with it. And I don't think I get what you mean by "pixel shifting" 'cause that's not a description of anything I know of and can mean anything you want it to mean. Maybe you mean "pixel shimmering" that can be seen on distant textures and caused by playing with no mipmaps on higher resolution? This is not an issue at vanilla resolution, and while it can be alleviated by filtering at higher resolutions (which also blurs out details and makes distant textures look mudier), a proper mipmapping would always look better, as well as not require any filtering of close-by textures.

>> No.4612973

>>4612947
No shit, PC original through a Doom sourceport wrecks the N64 version. It isn't the "real experience" though, its much better than that.

>> No.4613039

>>4612691
get zdoom and the HEXEN.wad

>> No.4613042

>>4612691
>>4613039

By the way, friendly reminder to NEVER buy id classics on Steam. All of them simply slap the game folder on to your hardrive and not feature the appropriate CD music. Hexen has the crappy fm music(I like FM music, but no id games actually composed it in that form, its all converted to fm from midi), but the expansion, which was CD based, has no music. Quake has no music, too.

>> No.4613045
File: 31 KB, 543x273, 236347.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4613045

Who was the best Rider and why was it Korax?

>> No.4613053

>>4613045
Eidolon, because in the evening before his arrival a rain of fire fell from the heavens

>> No.4613063

>>4613042
Unfortunately I had to buy it on Steam because outside of pirating it, there's no place I've found to get it DRM-free.

>> No.4613206

>>4613042
PC HeXen's CDA soundtrack is literally just a part of its midi soundtrack, recorded by Romero, no less, on Roland SC-55. Some of the tunes are missing, some are cropped. There isn't any point in going with it, if you can use an actual official Roland's sound canvas emulator (it creates a virtual midi-device - and you can out your midi-music through it). The old, 32bit Roland's emulator is called Roland Virtual Sound Canvas (RVSC), it's for XP and such, the newer, for modern systems - eh, just google it.

>> No.4613359

>>4604483
mod name?

>> No.4613362

Darkmere Swamp is my favorite FPS level of all time.

>> No.4613708

>>4613359
Follow the first reply

>> No.4613780
File: 590 KB, 1024x768, 1385340695991.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4613780

>>4613362
It's fucking great.

>> No.4615682 [DELETED] 

bump

>> No.4617562

>>4606090
Opinions are really mixed on Hexen, some actually like it, some don't.

>> No.4617605

replaying the first episode of heretic is fun with just the 4 or so weapons on hand so i guess it could be fun with limited weapons in hexen but the feed of gear is just way to slow for how specific each item is

maybe its also because you get the best heretic weapons first then just some lameish staffs and weird mace ball things later

>> No.4620041

>>4605586
If you want exploration FPS are not the way to go, unless the exploration you want is a maze.

>> No.4620121

>>4620041
FPS' do exploration just fine, see Hexen, Strife, Powerslave, and Metroid Prime.

>> No.4620312

>>4604431
Hexen sucks when it comes to exploration and revisiting old areas. Go play Metroid and don't tell me you have because no sane person would EVER go back to Hexen after playing Metroid.

>> No.4620691

>>4620312
Excuse, but in Metroid it's primarily that YOU, your abilities, change. In HeXen1 it's the levels themselves change. Metroids' worlds are WAY more static than HeXen's, that's basically One Giant Multi-Layered Trap.

It's not a maze, it's a trap. It's Doom Monster Closet Times 9000: The Game.

>> No.4620693

>>4620691
>Excuse me
>it's the levels themselves that change
>WAY more static than HeXen's, which is basically

>> No.4620701

>>4620691
Come to think of, it's a funny idea. It's almost as if in Doom you handle monster-closets from outside, while in HeXen you are sort of inside a multi-layered monster-closet, and handling said monster-closet from withing. It's almost as if YOU are the one invading, YOU are the alien, and YOU are the enemy. It's... kind of interesting train of thought.

>> No.4620708

>>4620701
In other words, it seems quite possible, that HeXen 1 is Doom's own "Wizardry IV"-like.

>> No.4621821

>>4620701
In Hexen, YOU are the demons

>> No.4621873

>>4604360
I legit prefer Heretic to Doom. Vanilla at least. I just wish Heretic had a bigger modding scene, and weapons that weren't shitty doom ripoffs. That's the biggest con of the game for me.

>> No.4621904 [DELETED] 

>>4605586
>>4605665
What do you think of Catacomb 3-D?
You have your own taste i understand that
Let's remember tho, that these games were (and imo still) pretty fucking badass back in the day, i mean, they were the new hot shit.

>> No.4622251

>>4621821
This, but unironically.

>> No.4622296

>>4621873

Have you tried Heretical Doom? The weapons have a lot different feedback, and a ton of different functions between altfires and Tomed modes.

>> No.4624307

>>4621873
The Ethereal Crossbow was not an equivalent of the Shotgun tho.

>> No.4624764
File: 57 KB, 594x445, ringworld-by-larry-niven.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4624764

Is this the current Doom thread?

I'd make a request of you Doom WAD makers: Could someone PLEASE make a Doom WAD based on or around the Niven Ringworld?

Don't ask me why, I just want that aesthetic mane.. I don't know how to and am too much of a brainlet to create Doom maps/wads so someone else pls do this.

>> No.4625549
File: 99 KB, 570x429, 0C662E79-D21B-4CDF-8682-D519F1FB80A5.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4625549

>>4604360
You could look up and down in Marathon.

>> No.4625551

>>4612467
Also remember that the explanation for the weird colors on the Pfhor ship was that Pfhor eyes are different enough from human eyesight that the perception of colors isn’t the same. It’s actually a pretty interesting take on biology.

>> No.4625559

>>4624764

Check in here >>4623970

>> No.4625720

The fighter was the best in Hexen.

What is your favorite mod for Hexen or Heretic /vr/?

>> No.4628132

>>4625720
Mage literally facerolls 95% of the entire game on max difficulty due to his starting magic wand being stupidly, unbelievably, OP (doesn't require ammo, non-reflectable, hitscan, precise, no distance-based damage falloff, infinite distance, pierces as many enemies in a row,as there are, including blocking ones). It's just why fucking bother with anything else if and when you have at least SOME space in order to maneuver and to evade enemy attacks?
The entire last location of the original game is quite EZ to clear, on the last difficulty, using said wand ONLY.

>> No.4628243

>>4628132
Another funny thought. Monsters in Doom don't really have ammo counters, now do they? It's just that the mage in HeXen really reminds me about it with his starting wand forays.

And if I were to describe my impressions from HeXen's art direction, or rather the main theme behind it, I would probably go with COMPASSION.

That being said, another word I'd go with, would be DISFIGUREMENT, meaning, first and foremost, the depiction of long since lost (corrupted, distorted) beauty of the ingame world. And the monsters have both been disfigured (from native creatures occupying the world) by Korax's influence into freaks we see in the game - and are further disfigured into, well, see death animations, by players actions. And the world itself, having been already transformed by Korax, is further transformed via, once again, player's actions, due to player's pressing all them buttons and stuff. Also, see transformed fighter/cleric/wizard elders in ep5.

There's something about all those transformations I can't quite formulate yet.

To be ultimately continued.

>> No.4628249

>>4628243
>There's something about all those transformations I can't quite formulate yet.
Actually, I can.

Symmetry.

Reflection.

Empathy.

>> No.4628251

>>4628249
"Reflection" - meaning, "as in the mirror".

>> No.4628308

>>4628249
Also, see disks of repulsion, which are unusual enough for the genre to suppose they could also be a metaphor for that reflection thing.

Anyway, from all of this in general follows the concept egotism as the habit to refuse to place oneself at another person's "place", consider his circumstances.

You know what? I think all of this is primarily about Romero's involvement at the producing role. It seems to me, that the initial concept of what ultimately became HeXen, did NOT originate from him, was VERY much influenced (disfigured, corrupted) by him, and changed in accordance to his whims and his tastes to the point where it lost all semblance to that initial concept, whatever that concept might've been. Player is the witness to what HeXen has never managed to become, and also unwilling cooperator in it, since it is quite possible, that another major source of changes to the HeXen concept came from the necessity to appeal to Doom fanbase (which, it is probably assumed, player belongs to). Anyway, the point is, it is impossible to discern, what the original HeXen was supposed to be at some point in time or other, from what it ended up being (or, in fewer words, to discern what it was in what it is). The player can only guess, and can't confirm any of his guesses even if some of them, by pure chance, pure luck, happen to fit what really happened, because, ultimately, he didn't see it, and whatever evidence, the possible reasons behind it are still imagined and are just speculations on player's part.

>> No.4628321

>>4628308
you just drained the site-wide supply of commas
thanks

>> No.4628392
File: 223 KB, 898x1024, 56027552_p0.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4628392

>>4628243
>>4628249
>>4628251
>>4628308

>> No.4628507

>>4628132

The Sapphire wand isn't hitscan. It's a fastprojectile.

>> No.4628519

>>4628507
Is is that way just visually, or mechanically too? I mean, FarCry1 had bullet animation, but in reality the guns were instantaneous hitscans, so that the damage was dealt before the bullet visually reached the target (as evidenced by crosshair blinking read). Hence the question.

>> No.4628527

>>4628507
Also, if it's a projectile, going through blocked enemies and being unreflectable honestly doesn't make much sense.

>>4628519
>blinking red
Fix.

>> No.4628529

>>4628527
There's multiple projectiles in Hexen that ignore Reflection

>Arc of Death
>Firestorm
>Sapphire Wand

>> No.4628531

>>4628529
Okay.

>> No.4628534

>>4628519

Mechanically as well, it's a fastprojectile that rips through enemies.
https://zdoom.org/wiki/Classes:MageWandMissile

Mind, ZDoom isn't really a 100% recreation of things, but in this case it's accurate to source behavior.

>> No.4629804

I played both heretic and hexen for the first time recently. Thought heretic was great. Like the classes and wepons in hexen but thought the level design was only ok. The enemies are the worst part though, fuck those stupid centaurs with shields. I'd love a version of heretic with hexens weapons.

>> No.4630961

^

>> No.4631093

There's a community alive and well at discord.me/Heretic
It also covers Hexen!

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