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/vr/ - Retro Games

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4603879 No.4603879 [Reply] [Original]

I'm sorry, but it's not that good.

>> No.4603884

But it has the greatest movement mechanics possibly ever developed.

>> No.4603896

>>4603879
Yeah, it isn't. Why not make this thread more interesting instead of just a low quality bait, though?

>> No.4603916

>>4603884
Too bad the level design doesn't really accomodate that outside of maybe the Rainbow Ride and Click Clock.

Mario should always be linear.

>> No.4603927
File: 1.71 MB, 640x480, ttm100.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4603927

>>4603916
>Too bad the level design doesn't really accomodate that
Imagine being this delusional.

>> No.4603932

>>4603916
>Too bad the level design doesn't really accomodate that outside of maybe the Rainbow Ride and Click Clock.
I can't tell if this is a "justpretending" post or someone who undersands the game that little.
>Mario should always be linear.
Thats a preference and not an objective criticism of the game's design/mechanics

>> No.4603950

>>4603884
It's awful at small movements.

>> No.4603968

Shut up Caddy.

>> No.4603971

>>4603879
It's no masterpiece.

>> No.4604036

>>4603950
Only if you're shit. Which is a good thing.

>> No.4604170

>>4603879
How old were you when it was released?

>> No.4604207 [DELETED] 

>>4604170
can you propel yourself underwater with farts?

>> No.4604273

>>4603879
I concur and I played it back when it was new.

>> No.4604368

>>4603879
Believe me, I was in the 1st grade, it was like the moon landing (or an equivalent)

>> No.4604373

>>4603879
I'm sorry, this is cancerous bait and will now be ignored.

>> No.4604581

>>4603879
Meh. I don't hate you if you feel that way. I just did a playthrough recently where I got 120 stars for the first time in my life, and although I think it's still a great game, I was also aware of its flaws more than ever this time around. The stars generally swing between being too easy or quite frustrating (a lot of the 100 coin stars, for example). Playing through the same segments of a level multiple times to get slightly different stars can get repetitive.

But I'll always love this game because I think it has so many positive traits that other games should aspire to. It's unpretentious, it gets out of your way and lets you play. Mario has the perfect speed and weight to him, unlike a lot of modern games which seem to have all decided in unison that the player character should feel like he's moving through molasses at all times. It's got a delightfully weird aesthetic. It's hard to know how big of a role childhood nostalgia plays in it, but I always tell people that just the simple experience of running around outside of Peach's castle with no music playing, just the sound of the birds chirping and the waterfall rushing... there's something magical about it. There's a glimpse of something special in there that the game designers of the far future will have to excavate.

>> No.4604586

>>4603950
Stop playing with a keyboard or an awful 3rd party controller with a deadzone'd stick.

>> No.4604668

You are very special for having such an uncommon opinion.

>> No.4604938

>>4603950
SM64 is my favorite game ever and you're correct.

Awful may be a bit harsh but it's not too far from the truth.
The number of fucking times I've done a U-turn instead of what I want to do...

>> No.4604941
File: 63 KB, 500x500, artworks-000077111280-i8hl7s-t500x500.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4604941

>>4604586
>mfw the fucking virtual console version has deadzone and over sensitivity
It's way better than a lot of other things, but they kind of dropped the ball

>> No.4604946

>>4603879
You're forgiven

>> No.4605087

>>4603879
When are the sony shit rats going to stop hating on Ocarina of time and Super mario 64? There's already two sad threads about it.

We fucking get it dude, you like niche anime rpgs but can you fucking stop for a moment? Can you fucking accept the fact that those two games will be hailed as masterpieces by developers and the public even 100 years after they were made? Even if you cry and whine about it like a bitch. Focus and talk about something you actually like.

>> No.4605089

>>4603879
I'm sorry, but none one gives a fuck.

>> No.4605091

>>4603879
>I'm sorry, but it's not that good.

>> No.4605093

You probably suck at playing the game, this is your excuse?

git gud

>> No.4605141

>>4604373
>acknowledges it anyway

go back

>> No.4605445

>>4603879
Better than Galaxy, although that isn't saying much

>> No.4605551

HOW
DID
NINTENDO
DO
IT
LADS

>> No.4605730

>>4603879
making tiny movements isn't so great and the camera is so fucking annoying but yes, I like the fluidity of his movement otherwise.

>> No.4605806

>>4605730
>making tiny movements isn't so great
The only people who think this are people who play the game on VC or emulator and not on N64 with an OEM controller.

>> No.4605809

what a hot take, thanks op

>> No.4605825

>>4605730
>making tiny movements isn't so great
You mean making tiny movements requires precision instead of flinging the controller all over the place? wow, that's some terrible game design there!

>> No.4605849

>>4603927
looks fun. Are there any games that try something similar ?

>> No.4605972

>>4604938
>The number of fucking times I've done a U-turn instead of what I want to do...
This drives me up the wall. I've never played any other 3rd person game do this.

>> No.4605976

>>4605972
*that does this.

>> No.4605990

thanks for reminding me i havent played this in awhile, op

>> No.4605992

>>4605972
>>4604938
How are people so terrible at video games that they have this problem?

>> No.4606092

>>4603916

>Mario should always be linear

Fucking KILL yourself, fuck I'm mad. Galaxy was fucking awful with this, literally floating hallways in space

>> No.4606269

It had very good movement/physics but it introduced the "explore the level multiple times and find the thingies" style of Mario that is inferior to classic side-scrolling linearity. Also the annoying way he makes a noise every time he moves.

>> No.4606309

>>4603884
paired with one of the worst cameras ever developed

>> No.4606348

>>4606309
It takes talent to be this stupid.

>> No.4606371

>>4606269
This. Though it wasnt linierity that made the classics good. It was finding secret shit, jumping ahead lwvels or worlds, optional levels and sheer volume of powerups that made them great.

Mario 64 is baby's first platformer, and you have to beat every fucking level 8 times. It was the easiest, safest way to cram "content" into a game that kids would drool over because mario could do lots of totally iseless acrobatic bullshit we all did once to see if it would work. And that tactic worked.

Kids and simple minded nostalgiafags still think its amazing because of the acrobatic shit, and you could easily beat the game without ever using any of it.
That, and the fact that every level must be completed so many times only makes the entire game feel redundant as fuck right out of the gate. But who cares? It was one of the only not completely shitty n64 games, so it mist have been amazing...

>> No.4606372

>>4606269
>Also the annoying way he makes a noise every time he moves.
This is the single worst thing that nintendo does, and it's not just with mario games.

>> No.4606483

>>4606371
Yeah I didn't mean strict linearity, more the idea of going to a goal versus collecting items to complete the level.

>> No.4606512

>>4606371
>you could easily beat the game without ever using any of it.
What does that have to do with anything?
>the fact that every level must be completed so many times
You only collect each star once, and they all send you to different areas of the level. You don't do the entire level 8 times. What kind of simple minded hyperbole is that?

>> No.4607005

>>4606372
HA, HA, HA, c'mon, who wants to play that shit, I need to shoot some niggas.

>> No.4607007

>>4606512
Not him, but
>What does that have to do with anything?
A moveset is wasted if the level design doesn't take advantage of it.
Again, Imagine a game with the nicest controls but the level design is just a flat 3D space where you just need to go in one direction to get to the end.
People feel like this a bit for Super Mario 64: its levels aren't demanding enough for what Mario can do. Which is why there's a strong rom hacking community, so that they can make levels in which said good moveset can at last be utilized properly.

>> No.4607290

>>4607007
>A moveset is wasted if the level design doesn't take advantage of it.
The level design does take advantage of it though. It allows your freedom to scale directly with your skill level.

see: >>4603927

>> No.4607484

>>4607290
Nah, that's called a self imposed challenge. What people miss about Mario 64 is the game demanding you to use all your skills through its level design.
It could have been handled nicely to not scare noobies, as well, since you don't need to get all the stars to beat the game. So a few of the levels or challenges could have been more challenging as a result.
I guess there's a reason (aside from it being a Mario and Nintendo game) the game is popular for speedrunning: Its movement is cool for self imposed challenges. Too bad the game doesn't actually demand much, it lacks truly interesting levels.

>> No.4607819

If Mario had required advanced acrobatics then many of us would not have been able to get far as kids. Advanced acrobatics are fine as optional choices in order to go across the level faster, they don't need to be mandatory

>> No.4607869

>>4607819
What about optional levels altogether as I mentioned? Again, you don't need all the stars to beat it.

>> No.4607884

>>4603879
ok

>> No.4607927

The older I get the less I think this was a good game. When I was younger I would have sworn it was the greatest game ever, later I would have thought it's pretty good. Now I think it's the worst 3D mario game ever.

Nearly the entire game looks like shit. There is no getting around it. Plenty of level have downright ugly aesthetics and the characters themself are not exciting pleasant to look at either: Zelda and Banjo which both came out around the same time had much better style.

The level design sucks: having no depth to the jumping, enemies that are completly ineffective, and there isn't even a good sense of pacing to any of this. The game is padded out immensely by sending you out of the level after you collect a star to make up for the fact that the stages are so damn tiny.

There's no challenge to this game. You can't get 'stuck', have an aburdly forgiving health system and once you learn to deal with the shitty camera you will rarely even die to pit-falls. It's a casual game.

>> No.4607948

>>4607927
>around the same time
Launch title VS games that came out two years later.

You are mostly right, though. Just saying.

>> No.4607982

>>4607819
What you are essentially saying is "the people who played this game are ultra casuals and could not handle it if it required the slightiest degree of actual mastery". When I was a kid I played Contra 3 on normal mode and beat it. I beat castlevania 1 on it's second loop.

Furthermore I don't see how you could design levels in Mario 64 for advanced acrobatics. The camera is simply not fit for it and would make it impossible, short of autistic memorization (which is how speed-runners make this stuff).

>> No.4607995

>>4607982
I agree with you. However, check out Mario 64 romhacks to see how they handled that.

>> No.4608015

>>4607995
I've seen rom-hacks: they seem to have no sense of difficulty curve, pacing, and really ugly environments. Mario's camera, move set, health, and check-point system was not designed for high challenging acrobetics and the rom-hacks kind of drive this home. He has no 'check points' because you aren't suppose to die enough to need them. His camera is designed for slow play and his jumps are designed for easy platforming where it is impossible to 'overshoot'. It's hard to judge jump distance in a 3D space where the player is denied a human's natural depth perception: Mario 64 compensates by just making jumping easy, ROM hacks seem to make it hard which doesn't work.

Mario 64 was simply not made for complex acrobatics. It was designed as a casual game for audiences who had never experienced 3D before as a way to get their feet wet. It's very much "a game for children" in the negative sense of the word. I think there's something wrong people with that have their head stuck around this one particular children's game which they long ago mastered.

>> No.4608026

>>4608015
Bowser levels are the ones that seem more akin to what you're thinking about. The camera and design there is more based around the acrobatics.
But yeah, 3D platforming just doesn't work.

>> No.4608140

>>4603879
>if a game is easy then it's bad

>> No.4608150

>>4608140
To some players and by some standards, indeed.

>> No.4608505

>>4608150
>like whipped cream on burgers
>go to burger joint
>no whipped cream burger
>these burgers are bad

>> No.4609376

>>4608505
This is a bad analogy. Let me put forth a better statement about the weight of difficulty.

Difficulty is very essential in platforming because platforming by itself has no depth. You move around a bit and jump, maybe you punch something or throw a fireball. That's pretty much it. If it's not very difficulty it quickly becomes disengaging. Platformers that are still fun despite having no difficulty tend to make it up with a really interesting aestetics like kirby, Klonoa, or to a lesser extent the Banjo series. These games also had lots of gimmicks, so even though they were piss-easy you'd get to see something new every once in awhile (a new kirby form for instance).

>> No.4609384
File: 2.87 MB, 1346x1350, Sonic_Adventure_2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4609384

>Mario 64
How cute.

>> No.4609450

>>4603879
It's heaps better than Mario Galaxy, honestly. It's entirely free roam and there are multiple ways you could approach getting a star. There's so much freedom. It's also crazy that it was like the first real 3d platformer and it came with such a complete moveset, with tricks that you don't even have to use to complete the game. People who say it's too easy are delusional, you've played way too many video games.

>> No.4609457

>>4607484
Goat simulator is literally only about self imposed challenge, does it make it any less fun?

>> No.4609463

>>4609384
Okay sonicfag, you win. Mario 64 doesn't have a raising sim minigame.

>> No.4610207 [DELETED] 
File: 50 KB, 874x686, DTKhRDoXkAA59z1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4610207

>>4609463

>> No.4610283

>>4609376
Very nicely illustrated. Video games need challenge to have a point and be engaging, unless people play them for the aesthetics or whatever.
>>4609457
That game became popular due to the aesthetics and stuff. If you need self imposed challenges to make something fun it's a sign it's not good by itself: you're making a game out of something in hope to make it fun.

>> No.4611410

>>4603879
fuck you yahoo

>> No.4611449

I liked the DS remake.

>> No.4612724

>>4603879
>I'm sorry but (opinion stated as fact)
Okay.

>> No.4612756

>>4603879
Crash Bandicoot was better

>> No.4612864

>>4603879
It never looked very enticing to me. Even when it came out my thought was "I'd rather get a Playstation."

>> No.4612964

>>4603879
It was never good, speaking as a huge Mario fan back when it was released.. 64 games have aged like shit and really just objectively fundamentally suck

>> No.4613636

>>4603879
>Check this sick unpopular opinion mannnn

When this game came out every fucking kid was running to the kid's house on the block who had it or running to McDonald's to play. It really fucking made waves (for good reason). It wasn't the best control wise I will say

>> No.4613657

>>4605551
>HDNDIL
What did he mean by this?

>> No.4613667

>>4612756
Crash is awful. There's a good reason Jason Rubin has been kicked out of the industry. Remove the cool marketing money and he's showing his true hack face.

>> No.4613782

>>4606092
Fuck you, buddy.
Galaxy was 100x better than this piece of trash

>> No.4613818

>>4613636
Oddly enough I only had one friend with a 64 and she always wished her parents got her a Playstation. The only game I remember kids flocking to play was THPS, and not the 64 version.

>> No.4613840

>>4613818
No, according to the official narrative of sony marketing nintendo is for a large casual audience and playstation is for a more hardcore niche audience.

>> No.4614075

>>4611449
I do too. But It's better if you play it on a 3DS because of the analog thumb stick.

>> No.4614076

>>4606092
Nice bad opinion you got there.

Focused, straightforward platforming is way better than just bing-bing wahoo-ing around and hoping to find something

>> No.4614184

>>4613818
Everyone who owned an N64 secretly regretted it. You had to be a massive lying faggot to say Diddy Kong Racing was better than Twisted Metal 2.

>> No.4614264

>>4614184
But Vigilante 8 beats the shit out of Twisted Metal.

>> No.4614761

>>4603879
Your'e right.
It's great.