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/vr/ - Retro Games

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4593219 No.4593219[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Guys, I think I actually kind of hate this game...

>> No.4593232

Congratulations.

>> No.4593246

>>4593219
Well, it's not like you're alone at all here. Not much of a contrarian opinion.

>> No.4593249
File: 169 KB, 390x290, giphy[1].gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4593249

Congratulations!

>> No.4593454

omedetou, shinji-kun.

>> No.4593478

Why?

>> No.4593492

>>4593219
I think I've realized I don't like Zelda that much. I always thought I did. MM was cool, but link to the past is too much backtracking. I was just about to buy a switch just for botw too.

>> No.4593498

>>4593492
That's the realization I came too the other day. I always thought I liked Zelda a lot but that fondness is really just for the first one and LtTP. And Link's Awakening too I guess but the other Gameboy ones I hardly even remember playing

I started thinking about all the ones I liked. Not crazy about OoT, didnt care for MM, dropped Minish Cap, Spirit Tracks, TP, SS, WW all in the middle of playing and not for any particular reason...just stopped playing and was never compelled to go back.
BoTW looked neat but...meh

>> No.4593507

>>4593498

Most Zelda fans stopped after OoT and MM.

I remember /v/ having 2 or 3 Zelda threads at the same time every day, now Nintendo effectively mangled the series

>> No.4593521

A Link Between Worlds was good.

>> No.4593524

OoT sucks..surprise all the opinions about it being 100/100 are parrotted

>> No.4593585

Story time. I distinctly remember the hype surrounding this game. I saw a few pictures in game magazines. It's not like now, there were literally a couple pics and you never saw anything else about the game for months.

I hungrily ate up everything on those old shitty websites, geocities, random pre google searches just trying to find out ANYTHING about the game. It looked so so epic. Nothing like it had ever been released. That 3d, that open worlds, riding a fucking horse. I was so hyped to finally get my hands on this game.

I never did. I don't know why, but I never got the game. I got a playstation between the time I read snippets about it and the time it released. Later I got a N64 while it was still the current generation, but never got OOT.

Fast forward to about 2005 and I finally got it. I played for about 3 dungeons worth then forgot the game. It's cool and all, but I have just never got past 3 or so dungeons. I just get sidetracked in life or on other games.

This is a "retro sin" I am genuinely sorry for. Someday I'll continue it and actually get to the point I can ride a fucking horse.

Related, I found the gold MM today at a thrift/antique store for $35, almost bought it, but the case was broken where the tabs fit together and they wouldn't budge on the price. For $25 or 30 I would have bought it, even broken, but I don't think comparing a game with a broken case to ebay prices is an accurate way to price things in a thrift store.

>> No.4593605

>>4593585

sounds like a you problem

>> No.4593660

>>4593219
I have the Gamecube version
Like every other Zelda game the dungeons are the only fun part

>> No.4593664

>>4593219
I love this game, it turns into a simplified 3D fighter when you press Z and that's clever.

>> No.4593697

>>4593492
>>4593498
Same, I realized this a while ago. The only thing really resembling gameplay is the dungeons, and now that I'm not 10 they are trivially easy.

I think the only reason I ever liked it so much was because all the collectables skinner box you a bit, especially if you're OCD, but now that I'm older I've come to realize games like that are just wasting my time.

>> No.4593708

I own it on N64, Wii, and on 3DS
I've played through it once. I don't have a single fond memory of playing it.

>> No.4593723

>>4593697
As you get older, your brain becomes damaged and so you find it harder to enjoy things like a normal human being. Because you aren't a normal human being anymore.

>> No.4593854

>>4593219
>Continuing from the start location every time you load the game
>1998
Masterpiece 10/10

>> No.4593863
File: 58 KB, 256x256, thinking-face.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4593863

>>4593723
...damn...

>> No.4593937

>>4593478
My HS crush dated a guy who liked Ocarina of Time

>> No.4593942

>>4593498
I completely forgot Spirit Tracks and Phantom Hourglass even existed.
The whole series really has been coasting on the clout of two or three games out of nineteen

>> No.4594272

Loved it at the time, but it's just too ugly. I'll play up to the deku tree but then my eyes can't take it anymore.

>> No.4594290

Still fun, definitely not the best zelda but definitely not the worst either. I still to this day don't know who thought windwaker was a good idea...

>> No.4594301

>>4593605

Probably. I'm not saying it's bad or anything, just I get distracted easily. I enjoy games more if I finish them, so I pretty much force myself to play a game I like to completion now. It's much more enjoyable to "beat" a game rather than sample random games for 5 minutes each.

>> No.4594305

>>4593723
fuck u

>> No.4594312
File: 57 KB, 575x691, ok.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4594312

>>4593219

>> No.4594421
File: 3 KB, 284x115, 448C6200-E38F-4F8E-949F-1520A1762D09.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4594421

>>4594305

>> No.4594441

>>4594272
I kind of like N64 graphics. They have an eerie feeling to them, they're very aesthetic IMO.

>> No.4594451

>>4594272
>>4594441
if you're playing on an emulator with a non-native resolution on an LCD it can make N64 games very ugly imo. But it looks great the way it's intended. Kokiri Forest is definitely has a style that way. But if you're playing high-res on PJ64 it looks like sterile low-poly grossness.

>> No.4594464

>>4594451
Yeah, N64 games are definitely made to be played on a CRT; the anti-aliasing technique used on the console looks great there. In a way, the blurriness of the CRT and AA gives games a pre-rendered look to them that is very hard to replicate on modern hardware. When people say that 5th gen games aged poorly graphically, it's because they weren't designed to be viewed on an LCD.

>> No.4594716

>>4594464
>>4594451
I've got OoT running on original hardware on an old crt right now and it's the ugliest pile of brown I've ever seen.
To hell with this game and it's shitty aesthetics. They should have gone the Toon look for the N64 games

>> No.4595235

>>4594716
It looked fine for the time. Most games on the N64 look like ass now.

That said I prefer the 3DS overhaul in most ways.

>> No.4595496

>>4594716
>the ugliest pile of brown I've ever seen.
Try Alundra on the PS1. It's not even 3D but it's really, really brown.

>> No.4596421

I always loved the world of OoT as a kid, partly because I had a Playstation and a friend I didn't get to see very often was the only person I knew with an N64, so it had a kind of exoticism about it.

I got a Gamecube the next gen and got the OoT bonus disk with Wind Waker, but I always preferred watching a different friend playing it rather than actually playing the game myself.

I've sat down to play it a few times since but I never got beyond the water temple. I always figured that it being hard was just a meme, but it's the actual poor design that makes it 'difficult.' Similarly whenever I've tried playing it since I always get bored of all the unskippable tutorial dialogue, it's not a game that lends itself well to being replayed when you already know what you're doing.

I still have a fondness for it, it's clearly a landmark game in terms of the world and its characters, but the actual game design hasn't aged well - a lot of choices would have made sense for a time when nobody had played Zelda in 3D.

>> No.4596423

>>4596421
what is poorly designed about it? only thing I can think of is switching the boots

>> No.4596496

What we're seeing in this thread is a mixture of envious Sony faggots who have never played the game, spermlings who weren't even alive when it was released, and contrarian hipsters who think it's cool to shit on one of the best games ever made.

Now, don't get me wrong, OoT is not a perfect game. It has its share of flaws. But it is the best adventure game ever made. You can say "well it was revolutionary when it came out", and that's true, but it does a disservice to the game in saying that, because there still hasn't been another game that outdoes it. If you don't like OoT, you just don't like these kind of games in general. It has amazing music, near perfect controls, great graphics for its time that still have incredible atmosphere, a story that is cliche but engaging, tons of memorables moments and characters, and a ton of content to explore. I don't think most people even consider, nor realize, the kind of heart and soul that went into this game, with how many secrets and special touches there were. How many of you know about turning butterflies into fairies, catching the fisherman's hat, the pit of redeads in kakariko, the secrets all over gerudo fortress, the dozens of secret holes you can find, playing song of storms to seedlings, the hidden pink fairies, and the dozens of other hidden things? Probably not many of you. Most games would be content with giving you the bare basics, but OoT creates a living world with so much to do, and this is all on top of the content that intend for you to see, like progressing the main quest, fishing, archery, bug hunting, etc. Simply put, the game is wonderfully rich and interactive. If you want a "hard" game, look elsewhere, because that isn't what makes OoT special. It's that it is simply pure, unadultered fun. It's a world of mystery and secrets and atmosphere.

If you think OoT is a bad game, you don't know what a bad game is. OoT is an amazing experience through and through.

>> No.4596498

>>4594421
well come over here and say that, because I have something for your black ass

>> No.4596516

Well how many hours have you played it for? I've seen people claiming they don't like games, then find out later they've beaten them six times. It's just how you say you just "realize" you hate it, yet didn't before. You can't expect a single player game to last hundreds of hours and never get boring. The key is to know when to quit without spoiling your fondness for and memory of the game.

>> No.4596692

>>4596423
The problem with the water temple is that if you miss something you have to do the whole water cycle again, which takes a lot of time and is rather tedious.

That said, I do love the game. It deserves most of the praise.

>> No.4596707

>>4596496
I love Blood Omen and Zanzarah - and I find OoT just indescribably fucking boring. My eyes begin to tear and my jaw gets tired immediately because of all the yawning I get when I as much as lay my eyes upon this game.

>> No.4596729

>>4593585

Just emulate it

>> No.4596730

>>4596707
To me it's the opposite, I see anything OOT-related and I get woke as fuck.

>> No.4596741

>>4596496
>I don't have any actual points so I'll call names to everyone that disagrees with me that's teach em!
Literal text adventures with no graphics had more "content" than this. You're not saying anything. What makes the music amazing? What makes the controls near perfect? What makes the graphics great? What makes the story engaging? WTF is a memorable? You're implying there's all these secret details laying around, but what would make anyone go out of their way to find them? You say it's a living world, but in what ways does the game advance without the player's input? How are the minigames incorporated into the main quest, if at all?

>If you think OoT is a bad game, you don't know what a bad game is.
Only people defending bad games say this. Maybe not bad, but at least subpar.

>> No.4596848

>>4596741
Not him but.

>music

whether you like music is of course subjective, but I and I think most find the soundtrack memorable and atmospheric

>controls

In contrast to many 3d games of that era, the controls are responsive. your character does what you direct him to. They are not floaty or hard to use.

>graphics

aged poorly of course, but when compared to the standards of the day the graphics were visually impressive.

>Story,
again subjective but I, most fans find the story simple but compelling, with interesting and likeable characters

>memorable

The game combines these elements to create an experience that like it or not many people found unforgettable the first time they played.

>minigames

That depends on the game. The least ones give you upgrades or new items which are very useful. Others advance side stories or give you access to information which makes the world feel bigger and lived in.

You may still not like the game. You might say it has not aged well or that later games have improved on every aspect of those things. But for 1998 this was impressive, very much so. and many still find it quite enjoyable today.

>> No.4597449

>>4593219
I'm literally listening to a song composed of sounds from this game. Just replayed it when i got the 2ds. Fucking beautiful.

>> No.4597515

>>4596741
How the fuck is this game bad. It's full of innovative design. You lock on to a bird and the camera finds an angle framing the fight. It's fucking brilliant.

>> No.4597685

>>4596496
>If you don't like OoT, you just don't like these kind of games in general.
The key thing to understand is that the original Legend of Zelda and A Link to the Past are very different kinds of games. OoT lacks the same sense of adventure, discovery, and challenge that the original games had.

Talk to any post-Ocarina Zelda fan and they'll rave about "puzzles" by which they basically mean arbitrary mini-games dropped into the middle of dungeons that must be solved to progress. Before Ocarina, the game was the puzzle, the puzzles weren't stuffed into the game.

>> No.4597691

>>4597515
It's boring. Yeah sure innovative for its time but rather tedious to go back and play after something like Dark Souls. The NES and SNES Zelda games, however. They are timeless and are as fun to play now as they ever were.

>> No.4597693

>>4597685
There was plenty of exploration in OoT. On my first playthrough I played dungeons out of order, entered some early and had to come back later, and so on. It's one of the freer Zelda games, Majora's Mask was locked down by comparison.

>> No.4597702

>>4597691
I just can't see the game as boring. Too many "interesting" moments that kept me glued to the screen, like draining the well and exploring zombie sewers.

>> No.4597719

>>4597702
I don't blame people for being fans of the game and personally avoid calling it "bad". I just find the ratio of interesting moments to filler is just not that great.

>> No.4597731

>>4597719
The parts of the game I dislike is shit like Bombchu Bowling. Hiding items behind lame minigames isn't very fun.

>> No.4597808

>>4597702
Interesting ONCE, yes. There is nothing that makes the game worth playing more than once.

>> No.4597923

>>4593219
Hi Arin.

>> No.4597931

>>4597808
The game needs a boss rush mode.

>> No.4597941

>>4597515
Never said it was, but saying there are worse games doesn't make it good, either. This actually makes me want to play it >>4596848

>> No.4597950

>>4596496
The best adventure game ever made probably runs higher than 10 fps.

>> No.4598169
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4598169

I think I fucked it up for myself. Back in the day I bought the game along with a really fancy hint guide.
So I managed to 100% the thing on my first run through with zero confused about what to do next. the whole thing was a breeze and I never felt compelled to play it again.

>> No.4598175

Does this game have a randomizer yet?

>> No.4598187

>>4598169
That sucks bro. I'm not typically against using guides if that's how you roll, but I feel like some games can be ruined by guides, and Zelda is one of them.

Me, I ruined the game for myself by playing it way too often. Master Quest and self imposed challenges managed to squeeze a little extra mileage out of it for me, but not much.

>> No.4598196

>>4597685
>arbitrary mini-games dropped into the middle of dungeons that must be solved to progress
What minigames? Finding a switch to shoot?
>Before Ocarina, the game was the puzzle, the puzzles weren't stuffed into the game.
ALttP followed the same sequence of solving room puzzles to find a key for the next area. You're being a crackpot nerd.

>> No.4598212

>>4598175
Beta quest runs? Bingo runs?

>> No.4598218

>>4598212
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tdua_gGR7_4

>> No.4598302

>>4598169
I ended up doing the same to Majora's Mask. My friend was all excited to play it again a couple years back when it re-released on the 3ds. I just gave a shrug and told him I have zero desire to play it after I 100%'d it on the 64.

>> No.4598315

>>4598302

MM is a chore to replay, mainly because you have to redo several parts of it over and over again to 100%

In OoT you can at least sequence break and do minimal runs, or exploit some glitches to skip over bullshit parts.

>> No.4598342

>>4593723
That could explain why is there more Vidya Journalist each day than actual players.

>> No.4598381

>>4598342

Nah, it's because contrary to popular belief, gaming isn't for everyone.

>> No.4598489

>>4598196
> ALttP followed the same sequence of solving room puzzles to find a key for the next area. You're being a crackpot nerd.
In ALttP the puzzles are all well-integrated into the normal gameplay. Consider Blind's hideout. There are essentially only two puzzles to solve: (1) Find the Big Key in the maze, (2) get the boss to reveal himself. The actual dungeon experience involves all the other little details related to solving those two puzzles, like dealing with the new fire-breathing enemy and spike-laden conveyor belts. It's like this for every labyrinth in the game. The number of situations where you actually have to stop in a specific room to figure out the secret of the room before you proceed to the next room is actually rather small.

>> No.4598507

>>4597923
Sequeliltis is a great video but all he really did was articulate in a persuasive, entertaining fashion what many people already felt.

As a kid I was super-excited about Ocarina, but I could never manage to finish it. Even going back several times and trying to play on an emulator I just got bored and gave up. I thought I'd just gotten too old to enjoy Zelda and never played any of the sequels. But then Dark Souls came along and I absolutely loved it in much the same way that I'd loved the original NES and SNES Zelda games.

While Souls was certainly more combat-centric than I'd ever expect Zelda to be, the Souls approach to adventure was far closer to what I wanted out of Zelda than what Ocarina actually delivers. Puzzles and mysteries are woven into the world itself and revealed through normal gameplay. NPCs have minimalist dialogue, the game is not laden with RPG-style cutscenes. Combat is tightly integrated with the environment and every encounter is custom designed with the terrain in mind. Replace the crapsack Lordran with colorful Hyrule and the smithing/weapon system with boomerangs and bombs, and you'd have the Zelda game I'd have wanted to play.

>> No.4598510

>>4598489
>In ALttP the puzzles are all well-integrated into the normal gameplay.

ALttP has no more 'well integrated' puzzles than most of the others games. Hell, I remember more and better environmental puzzles from both LoZ and OoT. There are also things like block puzzles, but they a hardly the most interesting aspect of OoT and barely anyone raves about them, especially compared to everything else in the game.

>> No.4598526

>>4598507
Souls is specifically better at offering the equivalent of a NES Zelda, experience in 3D compared to OoT, but I still considering OoT to be over and above the entire Souls series.

Dark Souls is probably the most re-playable game I've experienced, and it's a shame that OoT doesn't provide the resources for challenge runs to anywhere near the same extend despite its basic gameplay being extremely solid.

But the interactivity OoT provides and the way it builds up the totality of its world exceeds even what DaS1 is able to achieve. It's specifically inferior at developing most its puzzles and mysteries (with the exception of things like the return to the asylum and what develops from that), as so much ends up being based around figuring out how to fall down into the right spot or otherwise stumbling on the new location of an NPC. It's extremely good at hiding secrets given the limitations of its system, far better that the vast bulk of games, but there's a reason From dropped arbitrary climbing from the engine past Demons. OoT generally provides more meat for contemplation and reflection and is ultimately the richer experience despite Souls' specific and exceptional merits.

>> No.4598537

>>4598526
>Dark Souls is probably the most re-playable game I've experienced
/v/ has definitely been storming us these last few days
(Disclaimer: not a big fan of Zelda, if anything I prefer the 2D ones to OoT)

>>4598381
The biggest companies sure as hell are trying to in order to get more profits, to the detriment of more niche tastes.

>>4598507
Arin should never be listened to when it comes to game design. It's a case of "a broken clock is right twice a day", as evidenced in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJg3HP36FrM

>> No.4598545

>>4598537
> /v/ has definitely been storming us these last few days
Honestly I wouldn't even know what /v/ thinks of Dark Souls.

> Arin should never be listened
Ad hominem. Everything I've seen from him apart from sequelitis sucks balls. But for whatever reason, he appears to have put a lot of thought and research into those videos. They're opinionated of course but that doens't mean don't listen, that just means listen smartly.

>> No.4598862

>>4598507
Have you seen Arin play OOT? Many of the things he considers flaws come down to him being bad at them, or personal preference.

>> No.4598885

>>4598545
>he appears to have put a lot of thought and research into those videos.
He can't even finish the games he criticizes.
By the way, the grumps just started doing a Majora's Mask series, and Arin started it with "this game sucks!", so prepare for a legion of Majora's Mask shitposting.

>> No.4598956

>>4598885
None of this changes the fact that the criticism actually in the sequelitis videos is insightful and accurate.

>> No.4598998
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4598998

>>4598545
>Honestly I wouldn't even know what /v/ thinks of Dark Souls.
Granted, my pic is from '12, right before /vr/. Since I don't go to /v/ stuff may have changed since.
>Ad hominem
There's a thing called "backing up your opinions". The fact that Arin was luckily right just means that "even a broken clock is right twice a day". If a guy that can't cook tries to convince you on how to cook and dismiss his opinions, that's not ad hominem.
If you are terrible at games like him you really can't form a solid opinion on them. He also probably parroted his opinions from somewhere else and claimed them as his own.

>> No.4599003

>>4598956
>reasoning with idiots
Just wait for forced trips to come and launch the filterpocalypse.

>> No.4599050

That's cuz Mega Man Legends was the superior game at the time.

>> No.4599069

>>4598956

>insightful and accurate

Hmmmm, nope. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iQFfm30rz28

>> No.4599304

>>4598526
Examples of OoT being memorable? Examples of puzzles from OoT being well integrated? You keep gushing about it in contention with people but I've yet to even see where you're coming from.
OoT belongs squarely in the "neat for the time but not worth replaying" category

>> No.4599345

>>4599304
Not him, but the puzzles in OOT are well integrated, and a fair bit more complex than in most 2D zelda titles.

Not only do they make good use of 3d space but many of them follow the theme of the level they are in.

As for memorable, there is a reason so many later titles tried to copy its formula. You can bring up the various dungeons and cutscenes with fans and they will instantly know what your talking about.

Not to mention the way it intergrated music. The simple songs you play on the ocarina in many cases match background music and serve an important function, so you end up associating them with places and things. Again this makes them very memorable.

>> No.4599349

>>4599345
>You can bring up the various dungeons and cutscenes with fans and they will instantly know what your talking about.
No shit. Fans are familiar with the thing.

Still waiting on examples.
The ONLY thing I remember being cool from the game was the spirally hallway.

>> No.4599371

>>4599349

Dying soldier in the back alley
Final form ganon rising in the lightning
Dead hands
Thrusting your sword right into ganons skull
The atmosphere of the shadow temple
The royal family's tomb when you learn the sun song

>> No.4599375

>>4599371
All of this shit only fans who have played a ton of times would remember. I had to youtube the dying soldier. That's what counts as memorable to you guys?
Ganon's final form, really!? Dead Hand is neat I'll give you that only because it's such an unnerving design in an otherwise uninspired game.

>> No.4599380

>>4599375

>it's not memorable because I never saw it

And fuck you, if you were actually playing in 97(which I highly doubt), seeing the pig ganon rise like that was terrifying

>> No.4599382

>>4599380

Shit's absolute pure kino

>> No.4599387

>>4599380
I did play in '97. I'm willing to bet I was older than you at the time though so maybe that's why it didn't leave an impression on me.

>> No.4599710

>>4599387
Well that is the thing about this astetical qualities is they were somewhat subjective, so the only thing close to an "objective" way to measure them is to look at things like relative popularity among audiences and critics.

Out of curiosity how old were you at the time?

>> No.4599924

>>4599710
>"""subjective"""
Simple people like simple things. Nothing subjective about that.

>> No.4599990

>>4599387
>Ocarina of Time
>1997
Your dad worked for Nintendo?

>> No.4600362

>>4599345
>Not him, but the puzzles in OOT are well integrated, and a fair bit more complex than in most 2D zelda titles.
I'm doubt we'll be able to agree on what "well-integrated" actually means in this respect. Ocarina is indeed far more complex, but unfortunately this complexity results much less consistency and integration. The 2D Zelda games are built from a small set of rules and primitives. They are orthogonal. The 3D Zeldas are much less orthogonal. This results in quite a disparity in content, where some areas are very interesting while others are extremely boring. And you have various types of puzzles that are more-or-less one-offs. Explore the 3D environment until you discover where to torch the cobweb, then you can move on. How many more times in the game am I going to need to burn cobweb? In the 2D Zelda games, you learned almost all the rules in the first dungeon or two.

> As for memorable, there is a reason so many later titles tried to copy its formula.
Which is probably why I stopped playing them after Ocarina. The formula everyone else seemed to like didn't result in the kind of games I want to play.

>> No.4600378

>>4599371
fwiw these all look like RPG-type memories and not the kind of thing I associate with Zelda. For me, the kind of Zelda I remember is shit like discovering the secret entrance to Level 7. Finally beating a room full of Wizrobes. Obtaining the magic wand and being able to shoot at enemies whenever I wanted.

>> No.4600393

>>4600362

I suppose not. To me the puzles in most early 2D zelda games are simple and often very repetitive. a bomb on a wall here, a moved block there.

To me integrated means they play into the experience, OOT has lots of puzzles like the ones in earlier games, but it also has many unique puzzles that follow a theme. You have to control the water level in the water temple, you have to find a way around a pit of lava in the fire temple. You have to navigate illusions in the shadow temple.

This means the game doesn't all blur together. Blinds hideout is the only dungeon in LTTP that stands out to me for instance, well that and the ice one but it sticks out for all the wrong reasons.

>> No.4600443

>>4600393
A I just remembered one other, so yeah LTTP was really a step up in that department, One of the reasons its stood the test of time.

that said I dont really play Zelda games for the puzzle solving elements.

>> No.4600451

>>4593219
It's not very good, there is nothing that the game does particularly well.

>> No.4600463

>>4593219
are you gay

>> No.4600524

It is the best game ever made.
Of course it's going to have detractors trying to cherrypick personal pet peeves in order todo call for attention.

>> No.4600525

I'm so hungry

>> No.4600529

>>4593219
Well, it was definitely a step backwards from its 2D predecessors just like almost every other 1st generation 3D sequel out there.

>> No.4600637

>>4600529
Except for the people that grew up with 5th gen being their first experience with games, or their first main one. Which is where most of this praise for these slow games comes from.

>> No.4600639

>>4600637
I'd say this is what /vr/ is mostly comprised of, btw, which explains the overpraise and spam of this stuff (since 5th gen sold a lot more and was when many people started to play)

>> No.4600675

>>4599710
At the time of release in Nov of 98 I was 17 years old.

>> No.4600681

>>4600637
Gotta go fast

>> No.4600985

>>4599990
So sue me, I didn't remember the exact year I knew it was around that time.

>> No.4601115

>>4600681
Games really started slowing down during that era. All the running around in a 3D environment sucked up a lot of time. It was also around this time that games started bloating up with drawn out cutscenes and unnecessary stories.

>> No.4601119

>>4601115
I don't know, turn based RPGs and adventure games from before 3D times were also kinda slow.

>> No.4601175

>>4600681
I'm not even a fan of Sonic. I mean stuff like OoT taking so long to get started, where you can put an arcade game and be instantly engaged.
>>4601119
Not him.
1. Turn based RPGs are noticeably faster paced, as well as shorter (aka tighter and less padded) before 5th gen. Loading and disk space marked a shift.
2. If you compare AlttP to OoT, for instance, the same holds true. Faster paced, more action packed, shorter and more to the point.
That guy is absolutely right, 5th gen was the start of modern gaming and posters here that grew up playing exclusively made for console games from that era are essentially modern gamers for me unless they later got into other classic stuff. Including 5th gen here was a mistake, we need another board for 5th and 6th gen and leave vr only up till 4th.

>> No.4601224

>>4601175
I started playing during the third gen, I assure you that you can like stuff like OOT if you grew up with 3rd and 4th gen games.

A game doesn't need to be fast paced to be good, nor are story and cut scenes necessarily padding. I grew up with those face paced games, I assure you I was blown away by OOT by the first minute.

All that said I would not mind if retro was limited to gen 4 and below, since it feels like we spend a lot of time arguing about gen 5.

>> No.4601248

>>4601119
As you go back in time, you can find some turn-based RPGs that struggled with technical limitations and were clunky or slow for that reason. In Final Fantasy 1 for NES, for example, dialog boxes were slow and the process of issuing orders and watching it play out could be tedious. But I think people recognized that was somewhat of an experimental and ambitious game that took a few iterations to figure out. By Final Fantasy 4, there was nothing slow about it.
And even with FF1, once you're done with character creation the game just starts immediately. There's no lengthy story cutscenes to sit through or tutorials to complete before you start playing the game.

>> No.4601272

>>4601224
>I started playing during the third gen, I assure you that you can like stuff like OOT if you grew up with 3rd and 4th gen games.
I'm not saying you can't, just that there was a notable shift in focus during 5th gen from gameplay to storytelling and exploring 3D virtual environments. Ocarina of Time is one of the clearest examples of that shift in focus.

For what it's worth, the first "3D virtual world" game to capture my imagination was Everquest. I think for most non-Zelda fans, it was an FPS game like Quake or Half-Life.

>> No.4601273

>>4601224
Sure, if you mostly played the easiest NES and SNES games or stuff like that
>>4601248
This guy gets it, even slower genres were more to the point

>> No.4601490

>>4601273
Right.

Check out these two Zelda Let's Plays on youtube. After about an hour into A Link to the Past, he's defeated Aghanim and is entering the Dark World. In OoT, he doesn't even make it to Dodongo's cavern, which to me was the first real dungeon in the game, until the 12th video (roughly 2 hours in).

ALttP: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8DBACF1556B84D74

OoT: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5254D3DA3A77256D

>> No.4601495

>>4601490
Also, see how hard it is to find any actual combat sections in the first 12 videos of OoT. Meanwhile, almost any random timecode you visit in the ALttP playthrough will involve combat.

>> No.4601501

>>4601490
Games just got slower and slower paced over the years after abandoning the arcade influence, except for the short overblown cinematic stuff like the CoD franchise (and, of course, multiplayer or mobile games that are differently built).
Notice how games started to have either short or skippable cutscenes. Later on, cutscenes became unskippable and the "game" part began to become skippable. Really makes you think about what people play games for these days.

>> No.4601676

>>4596496
What we're seeing in this thread is a mixture of envious Saints Row faggots who have never played the game, spermlings who weren't even alive when it was released, and contrarian hipsters who think it's cool to shit on one of the best games ever made.

Now, don't get me wrong, GTA:SA is not a perfect game. It has its share of flaws. But it is the best adventure game ever made. You can say "well it was revolutionary when it came out", and that's true, but it does a disservice to the game in saying that, because there still hasn't been another game that outdoes it. If you don't like GTA:SA, you just don't like these kind of games in general. It has amazing music, near perfect controls, great graphics for its time that still have incredible atmosphere, a story that is cliche but engaging, tons of memorables moments and characters, and a ton of content to explore. I don't think most people even consider, nor realize, the kind of heart and soul that went into this game, with how many secrets and special touches there were. How many of you know about tagging Grove Street with green, catching the damn train CJ, the removed sex minigame, the secrets all over los santos, the dozens of secret safehouses you can find, shooting up enemy gangs on their turf, the hidden side missions, and the dozens of other hidden things? Probably not many of you. Most games would be content with giving you the bare basics, but GTA:SA creates a living world with so much to do, and this is all on top of the content that intend for you to see, like progressing the main quest, fishing, archery, bug hunting, etc. Simply put, the game is wonderfully rich and interactive. If you want a "hard" game, look elsewhere, because that isn't what makes GTA:SA special. It's that it is simply pure, unadultered fun. It's a world of mystery and secrets and atmosphere.

If you think GTA:SA is a bad game, you don't know what a bad game is. GTA:SA is an amazing experience through and through.

>> No.4601696

>get tired of /v/
>let's go on /vr/ these guys are cool and have top tier tastes
>ocarina of time sucks
Well, it's time to say goodbye to videogame boards on this taiwanese noodle chat.
See you guys in hell.

>> No.4601717

>>4601696
>likes OoT
You definitely fit better in /v/. Stop crossposting.

>> No.4601735

>>4601696
>>4601717
>different people on the same board dont have the same opinions on everything
go figure

>> No.4601740

>>4593219
I actually hate it just as much as you do there!

>> No.4601769

>>4601735
Liking stuff like OoT is much more /v/ / modern gamer, though.

>> No.4601772

>>4601769
so? does that mean that everyone who likes OoT should go to /v/ and everyone who doesn't should come here? the boards aren't organized that way.

>> No.4601779

>>4601772
Well, if we strive for a board that feels different from /v/ so it has a point to exist then yes.
However, as long as 5th gen discussion is allowed here, we'll have to deal with these crossposters.

>> No.4601825

>>4601779
are you suggesting that 5th gen shouldn't be considered retro? because if so i disagree along with the rest of the world.

>> No.4601862

>>4601501
Honestly I just think some people are very task-oriented and are satisfied by games that give them straightforward tasks to accomplish in a linear and risk-free format with lots of incidental and aesthetic detail along the way.

>> No.4601865

>>4601825
I agree with you but the line does get blurry for a game like Ocarina of Time which is modern by most standards.

>> No.4601890

>>4601865
by calling ocarina of time "modern by most standards", arent you acknowledging that it was set to a higher standard by its own revolutionary design despite its retro hardware limitations? the whole point of the game industry is to advance and revolutionize, isnt it? wouldnt that give a game like ocarina of time the unique quality of appealing to both one's sense of novelty and nostalgia simultaneously? maybe that's why everyone and their mom loves it. just a thought.

>> No.4601891

>>4601717
Hating good games is just as much a /v/ thing liking bad ones, now get the fuck back to /v/.
>>4601865
>Games I don’t like are magically more modern than other games I do like for unexplained reasons, therefore it shouldn’t be on this board I just found.
I’m fuckin’ praying this is bait, next you’re going to say the same thing about Shenmue and Soulcalibur, right? At the very least it’s more proof that you’re just a /v/ crossboarder that’s trying to hard to fit in, get the fuck outta here.

>> No.4601936

>>4601891
>a /v/ thing
when will this meme die?
example of "a /v/ thing": literally anything having to do with a game and/or console released after 2000
example of "a /vr/ thing": literally anything having to do with a game and/or console released before 2000

>> No.4601952

>>4601891
>Hating good games
I'm not hating on the game, I just consider it OK and definitely overpraised by 5th gen babies. I prefer older styled games, good luck with that on /v/ lol
>>4601825
5th gen is the start of modern gaming. However, the change wasn't instant. OoT was one of the more modern feeling games from the 90's, which is why it gets so much praise while people like me who prefer more classic style games get bored with it to an extent, as >>4601865 pointed out.

>>4601890
>arent you acknowledging that it was set to a higher standard by its own revolutionary design despite its retro hardware limitations?
No, since I consider modern games to be of a lesser standard, game mechanics wise. When we say OoT feels modern, we mean it's more focused on stuff like aesthetics than game mechanics.
Or, to put it in other words, we didn't think games advanced, they just sidestepped and became another thing altogether (which is why I'm talking about "classic" and "modern" games)
An example of games improving would be Xevious to Flying Shark or Street Fighter to Street Fighter II. Starting with stuff like OoT they're made with a different appeal and mindset in mind altogether.

>> No.4601992

>>4601952
personally, i think that the mechanics in OoT aren't that different from the original LOZ and aLttP, to me it just felt like the next logical step, an updated version. sure, they had to come up with some weird ways to accomodate the 3d graphics, but the core idea of going through dungeons, picking up new items and weapons along the way, and solving small puzzles before a moderately easy bossfight is still there, even in newer zelda games like WW, TP, and SS. the only real differences i've seen are that the graphics are gradually improving and the bosses are getting gradually easier, which is not a huge problem for me.

>> No.4602006

>>4601992
The mechanics seem similar but it's the way they are implemented. The game is much slower paced and easier, the experience seems to be catered more towards the aesthetics here.

>> No.4602018

>>4602006
i understand where you're coming from, but you also have to remember that Z1 and aLttP were both beautiful games in terms of graphics, soundtrack, and overall atmosphere at the time compared to other adventure games. OoT had some stiff competition graphically, and consumers had been moving away from challenging games and towards "experience" based games since SMB1.

>> No.4602034

>>4602018
Sure, but there comes a point where the game becomes so easy and slow the appeal becomes mainly what the game features aesthetically instead of how it plays.
Zelda 1 to OoT is a jarring jump. The first one is absolutely straight to the point and it's actually hard to survive in later dungeons, while also being much less linear and handholdy. AlttP is a middle ground.
>consumers had been moving away from challenging games and towards "experience" based games since SMB1.
This is true, but this trend was slow and it didn't truly accelerate till 5th gen. Mario 1 is a really arcadey game and actually decently challenging without abusing codes or not knowing where the warps are.

>> No.4602054

>>4602034
i guess we just draw the line in different places then. to me, WW was the point where they started getting too easy and slow paced, but OoT and MM were still enjoyable. just out of curiosity, what do you think of majora's mask? its quite a bit more challenging than ocarina.

>> No.4602068

>>4602054
WW is even easier, sure, but OoT already crossed the line.
I'm not a big Zelda fan, much less so for the 3D games. MM is interesting but ultimately too focused on side content which is mostly just tasks with not much mechanical substance (they had to pad it out like this to not make it feel too short for modern audiences that suddenly judged games with quality+time/price intead of quality/time; at least it wasn't forced padding). The dungeons are a bit better designed and it's indeed a step backwards in the trend of these becoming style over substance, but it doesn't end up being as good as it could have been due to it being a rushed game.

>> No.4602112

I honestly couldnt give a damn what /vr/ thinks of this game and the people who like it. Liking OOT does not preclude liking the original. Liking RPG's does not preclude liking platformers, and liking modern games does not preclude liking retro games or new games that imitate a retro style.

>> No.4602119

>>4602068
i agree that MM was a lot less polished than OoT due to time constraints, causing some graphical and gameplay glitches as well as reused resources, but putting those aside in reference to, for example, the 3ds remake, i think its probably the best zelda game imo. first one was a bit too obtuse for my taste, i dont like needing a guide to have any hope of finishing a game within the decade. aLttP felt slightly stale to me beacuse it was basically an addon to the first game with better graphics and a more intuitive overworld. i loved OoT when i first played it due to the hype, graphics and new mechanics, but once i finished it i realized that i never really wanted to play it again because it was boring to me now. majoras mask, however, was refreshing to me because i got to enjoy muh graphics and muh ocarina without sacrificing all challenge and replay value. and 3d just fixed all the glitches and made it look better, so that was pretty handy.

>> No.4602136

>>4602119
eh, I love MM but I think the master quest is a good deal harder than it.

>> No.4602146

>>4602136
havent played MQ, is it good? seemed a little cheap to me. isn't it just mirrored OoT with minor difficulty changes?

>> No.4602151

>>4602146
I haven't completed it yet, I started but it was right at the end of another play through so I got bored. Its on my to do list.

they mirror the over world but the dungeon layout is completely different.

The most disappointing thing is the bosses since they are way underwhelming compared to the dungeons and they didn't think to give them extra health or damage.

>> No.4602175

>>4602151
wait so is just the map mirrored or the whole game? because right handed link bothers me for some reason

>> No.4602183

>>4601891
>I’m fuckin’ praying this is bait
I think you must have mistaken me for someone else. I have made no argument about what should or shouldn't belong on this board.

I consider Ocarina of Time a modern game because it's so fully committed to the 3D virtual world aspect.

>> No.4602198

>>4602175
no no, the dungeon layout is different, and a good deal more complex.

yeah right handed link bothers me too.

>> No.4602309

>>4593219
Twilight princess is good, but yes the old version is less than the remastered 3ds.

>> No.4602387

>>4601992
> i think that the mechanics in OoT aren't that different from the original LOZ and aLttP,
The biggest fundamental difference in mechanics between LOZ/ALttP and Ocarina of Time is how the game is constructed from its primitive elements. The NES and SNES games, like most 2D games, use purely symbolic representation for everything. Every element of the game and all of its the rules are based around those symbolic elements. On the other hand, in Ocarina, you have a 3D representation of a realistic alternate reality with a set of fundamental rules to govern that alternate reality. The game elements are then an additional layer of rules on top of that baseline alternate reality. On the NES, Link is a game piece controlled by the player. On the N64, Link is the player's avatar. It's a fundamentally different approach.

So you have a situation where you can spend an hour puttering around Kakariko village exploring the 3D world and it feels like playing. But in all that time you never actually do anything dangerous or challenging and don't advance the story. 3D games have been dealing with this fundamental issue ever since.

>> No.4602412

>>4601890
I mostly agree with >>4601952.
You could call it a higher standard, but then the question is still the degree to which it meets that standard. Chess is held to a higher standard than checkers. But if you try to make a chess set you have to be sure every piece is represented.
I think that Ocarina is a major achievement and landmark in gaming history, however it has a number of shortcomings in terms of being a game that's fun to play if you don't have a nostalgia association with it.

>> No.4602454

I played it and MM for the first time on the Gamecube, really liked both.

>> No.4602475

I love oot but it's retarded to get mad about someone not liking it. It has pretty much none of what made the original loz good, it's a good game for entirely different reasons. It's like getting mad at a Smash TV fan for not liking Riven.

>>4602175
>>4602198
Just a reminder that the gamecube version of mq doesn't mirror the overworld, it just remixed the dungeons. So Link is left handed in this version.

Dunno if there are other differences between the two versions, other than the qol and aesthetic changes that are also in the base game.

>> No.4602570

>>4602387
OoT handled exploring a virtual reality really well, it's genuinely enjoyable puttering around Kakariko or Hyrule Market Town for hours. There's so much to absorb, things to see and characters to talk to, minigames to play, atmosphere to soak in, and there's hidden stuff everywhere to reward exploration. In the early days of 3D it was especially unique because we didn't have that much exposure to 3D gaming, 20 years of 3D games may have diminished the specialness that Ocarina had to gamers when it came out because nowadays its quite normal to navigate 3D virtual environments.

>> No.4602635

>>4602570
What Oot did you play?? Wandering around tge village for hours? Theres fuckall there. The game felt dated when it was new.
Nintendo kids have a fucked perspective of gaming

>> No.4602764

>>4602034
im the anon from before, just curious again, what does someone like you think of cuphead? have you played it?

>> No.4602775

>>4602112
I guess you didn't play the first one with the NES instruction manual, which is enough to get by. Lots of games depend on the manual to be enjoyable; have you tried the NES Dragon Quest games? You won't know what the items on the shops do unless you check on the manual, since they had limited space for text.

>>4602412
>So you have a situation where you can spend an hour puttering around Kakariko village exploring the 3D world and it feels like playing. But in all that time you never actually do anything dangerous or challenging and don't advance the story. 3D games have been dealing with this fundamental issue ever since.
This guy gets it, stuff like that is essentially modern gaming approach.
>>4602570
>There's so much to absorb, things to see and characters to talk to, minigames to play, atmosphere to soak in, and there's hidden stuff everywhere to reward exploration.
None of this is engaging if you don't care about aesthetics or rewards and play games to be engaged with cool mechanics and challenge. That's the point. To me it's not special but comparing it to older games, not later games.
>>4602764
Seems like a decent game made in a MegaDrive era made for console style and challenge (which is to say, easy to moderate by classic game standards), though compromised a bit to fit into some bad modern standards. I think most of that game's success is due to the aesthetics, people wouldn't have cared if not for that. As a run and gun I've seen better.

>> No.4602801

>>4593219
it's a wonderful game.
>>4602635
thanks for wonderful contribution of nothing for a game you sound like you have (obviously) never played.

>> No.4602802

>>4602775
I guess you didn't play the first one with the NES instruction manual, which is enough to get by. Lots of games depend on the manual to be enjoyable; have you tried the NES Dragon Quest games? You won't know what the items on the shops do unless you check on the manual, since they had limited space for text.

I remember the days when manuals were relevant, and I have played dragon quest I but I dont see what that has to do with my point.

>> No.4602806

>>4602775
i thought cuphead was harder than SMB, but not as hard as the lost levels

>> No.4602837

>>4602801
I don't suck the game's dick so that means I never played it?
Fuck off with that noise. I cant imagine the shit you exposed to prior if Oot feels expansive to you in any way.

Kakariko village is like three houses and a windmill. You spent hours exploring that?

>> No.4602857

>>4602837
>>4602801
You're both hyperbolic as fuck.

>> No.4602940

I don't reckon I'll ever get around to finishing Ocarina of Time myself since I've seen it played before so many times that I kind of know it inside and out, but I've got a bit of an urge to play Majora's Mask since I know relatively little about it and the setting/tone seems really cool.

I'm hesitant because I feel like the 3 day time cycle thing will stress me out enough to not enjoy it. Is that much of a hassle in practice?

>> No.4602945

>>4602940

just do the 4th day glitch, when you want to do dungeons

>> No.4602964

>>4598998
team fortress 2 is on that. lmfao. what the actual FUCK?

>> No.4602968

>>4599375
memorable to me would be becoming adult Link for the first time and seeing the world completely changed, and definitely certain dialogue portions. i especially love when you return to Kokori Forest and you see the Kokori who used to hate link. now that you're an adult, he doesn't recognize you, and won't let you pass. you play Saria's song and he realizes you must be a friend of hers and says "i don't know why, but when i look at you... i remember him". not sure why, but that scene has just always stuck with me.

>> No.4602971

>>4601490
what idiot takes 2 hours to get to dodongo's cavern...???

>> No.4603108

>>4602971
>what idiot takes 2 hours to get to dodongo's cavern...???
Literally anyone who plays like a normal person. You can get there faster if you focus on speed but even then it takes a long time. Here's a glitchless 100% speedrun that makes it to Dodongo's Cavern in 43 minutes.

https://youtu.be/dd8j0fviZMg?t=43m29s

>> No.4603143

>>4593219
heh, fucking faggot.

>> No.4603145

>>4602802
It was just an example to see how they were very relevant. Without one, shops only showed the prices for goods. To know how weapons and armor affected your stats, or what items did you either had to refer to the manual or pointlessly save and reload (which takes a while since you can't save at the spot)
>>4602806
Yeah, a moderate console challenge. Far from arcade run and guns, though. My favorite is OutZone, though that game is a top down run and gun.
>>4602940
>and the setting/tone seems really cool.
This is what we mean when we say these are modern games in design and appeal. People are attracted to them not by how the play, but aesthetic stuff.
>>4602964
It's /veddit/

>> No.4604794

>>4603108
The game needed some extra tutorialization to make sure you get the Z-Targeting shit.

>> No.4604798 [DELETED] 

>>4604794
The people I've met who hate this game are all 35+.

>> No.4604806

>>4593219
The people I've met who hate this game are all 35+.

>> No.4604880

>>4596741
>actually retarded

>> No.4604924

>>4604806
Exactly. There's a reason we're saying the appeal of this game is more of that of a modern title than of games classically designed.

>> No.4604927

>>4604806
>>4604924
Also, btw, 35+ years old is 1983-, which would mean being 15+ when OoT came out. So your statement aligns with my hypothesis: the ones that are not blinded by the game are the ones that were old enough and enjoyed older games way before OoT came out. Seeing how OoT has a different, slower appeal, it's no wonder.
So younger ones that were early teen or less and impressionable, that had this as their first exposure to games are almost a different generation. Even younger ones have played this out of the overpraising parroting from the ones that played this as a kid when it came out, and since the game is essentially a low poly modern game it was right up their alley.

>> No.4604931

>>4604806
>>4604924
>>4604927
And man, /vr/ really needs to let go of 5th gen at some point so it can be with 6th gen in another board, having to deal with all these 5th gen babies, even if tolerable, is such a pain.

>> No.4604950

>>4604927
It's a wonder that indie developers haven't embraced lowpoly, I'd love to see games that throw back to the N64 and PSX, it'd be a fresh break from pixelshit.

>> No.4604954

I thought it was pretty original at the time, being the first zelda game to transfer to 3D. It's too bad every other game after it became a rehash of it to the point that I already knew the controls. Morrowind and Shadow of the Colossus busted my nostalgia bubble, especially after the childish Windwaker.

>> No.4604958

>>4604927
who started playing games in their teens? I was three or four when I started.

>> No.4604960

>>4604950
ive seen a few. Mostly horrible survival horror though

>> No.4604964

>>4604954
The only thing wrong with Wind Waker was that it was too short.
All games are childish, but some appeal to children in their 20's and 30's, children old enough to become numb to competent art design.

>> No.4604967

>>4604960
I saw something that looked like resident evil, then I saw that it was "procedurally generated" and I backed off from buying it.

>> No.4605114

>>4601676
I don't remember fishing and archery in SA. And the only bugs I found were when you fall through the map into the fucking sky.

>> No.4605139

>>4593219
Easily one of the worst games I have ever played. Fuck any game before 2002.

>> No.4605151

>>4604964
>The only thing wrong with Wind Waker was that it was too short.

this joker, WW is long enough for how rushed it was, the problem is the horrible padding and unwieldy mechanics

>> No.4605185

The best 2d Zelda isn't A Link to the Past, it's Alundra.
The best 3d Zelda isn't Ocarina of Time, it's Okami.

The best thing Zelda has ever done is inspiring better games.

>> No.4605186

>>4605185
>Alundra
Eh.

>> No.4605447

>>4604958
What I meant is that when you're still in your early teen you're quite impressionable. So having OoT as one of your gaming experiences during that time is bound to have an impact in how you see games from that point on.
Think of it like this:
"Wow, this aesthetic 3D world I can relax in is so cool, all the gamey gaming I did before this was child's play in comparison".
Check this out:
>>4604964
>The only thing wrong with Wind Waker was that it was too short.
You can see the modern gaming mentality (of "length" being important) here, for instance. Classic games are designed to be as good as possible all the time, which lends itself to shorter lengths since it's both hard to keep that pace for long (with a budget) and also stuff beatable in a sitting assuming high skill is appealing.
So a player that early modern stuff like OoT as something big in their childhood is bound to see games through these modern lenses instead of one of more classically designed games.
>>4605151
Indeed, nice irony. That modern gamer is complaining that a game that is clearly padded is "too short" which is hilarious. Instead of asking for better quality; no, length is the issue!

>> No.4605448

>>4605447
that had early*

>> No.4605449

>>4604794
I wish.
Most of the bloat at the beginning of Ocarina doesn't involve combat practice at all (which I would have appreciated). It involves running over empty spaces, reading dialogs, whacking pots, herding chickens, and other mundane activities.

>> No.4605452

>>4605449
>It involves running over empty spaces, reading dialogs, whacking pots, herding chickens, and other mundane activities.
Truly the GOAT

>> No.4605515

>>4605185

>The best 2d Zelda isn't A Link to the Past, it's Alundra.

This. Alundra was awesome.

>> No.4605517

>>4593723
What do you mean?

>> No.4605550

>>4605447
>You can see the modern gaming mentality (of "length" being important) here, for instance.
What's interesting to note is that despite its increased length, OoT has fewer items, fewer bosses, and fewer dungeons than its predecessor. Just because it takes 4+ times longer to play doesn't mean it's a 4 times larger game.

What does OoT have? OoT has more characters. More dialog. More story. More quest items. More empty space. More minigames. Longer animations. More aesthetic detail in the environments. It does have the Ocarina melodies, though some of those are essentially just quest tokens. And even if you count every melody as a distinct item, that still means only 25% more items than A Link to the Past.

Not to say that more is necessarily better on these metrics either, just that "length" of a game is often a function of how much time the game forces you to waste.

>> No.4605565

>>4605550
>"length" of a game is often a function of how much time the game forces you to waste.
Exactly right. Glad to see others with a more classical approach to game design taste.

>> No.4605580

>>4605447
>What I meant is that when you're still in your early teen you're quite impressionable. So having OoT as one of your gaming experiences during that time is bound to have an impact in how you see games from that point on.
Think of it like this:
"Wow, this aesthetic 3D world I can relax in is so cool, all the gamey gaming I did before this was child's play in comparison".

But here is the thing: OOT would not have had that effect if there was not something to it. Rather than evaluating those qualities on their own terms, you have just labeled them antithetical and harmful to "real" gaming.

>> No.4605601

>>4605447
If anything you should hate RPG's for letting their emphasis on story, progress and aesthetics leak into most other aspects of gaming

>> No.4605602

>>4605580
Sure, OoT is a good game by modern standards (as in, it features aesthetics and stuff that people enjoy). I never argued otherwise. It just wasn't a classic style game.

>> No.4605609

>>4605601
In fact, I do, particularly what FFVII did to the west (it's one of the other big 5th gen baby games).
I rather enjoy playing the ones less focused on plot with low levels (as in, never grinding), though. Think of stuff like Wizardry.
However, for a while, those elements you mention were mostly confined to RPGs. It was with OoT and the like when they really began to spread to everything else, and it got really silly by 7th gen.

>> No.4605635

>>4598998
>inb4 trolling
No, I just have the worst opinions of all time and am a miserable excuse for a human being
>Chrono Trigger
Absolute dogshit. Tried playing that excuse of a game, I felt it had about as much investment and difficulty as one of those Humongous Entertainment games. It is pretty much the precursor to Putt-Putt Travels Through Time.
>DOOM
Seriously? As one of the best games of all time? Granted, yes, it was responsible for the FPS genre. But in 2017, I just don't feel compelled by it. The levels are simple in comparison to what existed later, the MIDI music is bland, the enemies feel like monster closet beasts instead of a world I am exploring, and the entire thing just comes off as a monotonous labyrinth. I tried playing some shovelware packs from 1994, after about 300 levels I just couldn't take the torment anymore. None of it was fun.
>System Shock 2
This is a joke, right? As one of the best games of all time? The end was absolutely broken, the game focused on respawning enemies in a limited area that resulted in sheer tedium to explore places, and most of the game was just spent listening to audio logs to get codes (what happened to Looking Glass' stance on not having mandatory items that require waiting for a cutscene or listening to dialogue?). Extremely overrated.
>Wolfenstein 3D
Flat plan mazes of hell that never want to end and can be expanded with shitty shovelware. I guess "because of its influences on the industry" instead of its merit today. Forget what was around in 1992. "In the Middle Ages everyone shat in a bucket, it was all we had, so it is enjoyable to appreciate that bucket shitting from time to time". No, you realize it wasn't the best you could have in hindsight and move on.
>Diablo
Because stat management and bland music makes for such an immersive experience.
>Other games
Never played them. Based on /v/'s tastes, I bet they are shit as well. Then again, pretty much everything is shit.

>> No.4605639

>>4605635
Read the filename, it should tell you a lot about what's wrong with that list.
Also, it's from /v/

>> No.4605726

>>4605602
Well I can agree to that. If this board was restricted to 4th gen I could live with that, though some 5th gen games are still in that mold, or at least are not fully fleshed out "modern" games.

I just dont like the hate.

>> No.4605748

>>4605726
Nah, it's not hate. Though I don't blame you, after seeing so much trolling and shitposting it becomes hard to take people seriously here when they are trying to argue something that's a bit unpopular.

>> No.4605862

>>4605114
fuck, i missed that part. it was joke anyway.

>> No.4605960

>>4605609
The fascinating thing about FF7 is that it was reasonably faithful to its predecessors' gameplay while at the same time greatly expanding the aesthetic elements. FF7 dives right into the action after a brief and tasteful cinematic opening. The game doesn't slow down until you've defeated the first boss and blown up the Mako reactor (in another brief FMV which has a useful purpose in showing the scale of the explosion in relation to the rest of the city, to give a better sense of the consequences of what you've just done). Summoned monsters aside, the battle animations are snappy and the transitions are reasonably quick.

While there's no doubt FF7 had a lot of drawn-out cutscenes and an overwrought plot, I think many of its imitators failed to recognize the classical elements that it nevertheless got right. For all its aesthetic excess and lengthy story, FF7 was still a pretty fun game to play, assuming you liked the FF ATB battle system.

>> No.4605971

>>4605960
You're right, I'd rather play FFVII than a lot of later stuff, and that's saying something since I never liked that game much.
Here in particular:
>I think many of its imitators failed to recognize the classical elements that it nevertheless got right.
You got it right. Unfortunately, people focused more on the "wrong" things about the game, both in how they valued and in how later games inspired by it were designed.

>> No.4605973

>>4605971
how they valued it*

>> No.4606021

>>4597950
you do realize that n64 games run at 60fps, right

>> No.4606026

>>4606021
The Zelda games sure don't.

>> No.4606027

>>4605635
>Chrono Trigger
Is vastly overrated, but I do think it is a good representation of a classic JRPG.
>Other games
I really do consider Dark Souls to be the best game I have ever played and I started w/ 2nd gen in the early 80s. Don't have much to say about the rest of the list.

>> No.4606101

>>4606021
None of them do besides F Zero X.

>> No.4606109

>>4606101
Smash is 60fps in 1vs1.

>> No.4606129

>>4606109
Also boring as shit in 1v1 but point taken

>> No.4606226

>>4606129
Well, that's your opinion, but yeah, it's still 60fps.
There's also several 2D games on N64 that run at 60fps, but I'm guessing we're only talking 3D games here.

>> No.4606636

>>4606129
just so you know, the rest of the smash community disagrees with you wholeheartedly. casual gamers, little kids, and soccer moms, however, agree.

>> No.4606638

>>4606636
The smash community are also a bunch of autistic cock gobblers, so whatever they think it's generally good practice to go and do the opposite of that.

>> No.4606646

>>4606638
why so hostile? we're just having fun playing yoshi vs yoshi on dreamland over and over again for all eternity.

>> No.4607082 [DELETED] 

Be honest with me. I have never played this game (but i have played a lot of zelda games before). Will i enjoy this game as much as someone would when it was released? Or at least, will i end up praising the game as others do?

>> No.4607083
File: 16 KB, 238x310, aadara[1].gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4607083

Be honest with me. I have never played this game (but i have played a lot of zelda games before). Will i enjoy this game as much as someone would when it was released? Or at least, will i end up praising the game as others do?

>> No.4607086

>>4606636
Well the Smash community is generally wrong about everything so I guess I'm heading in the right direction.

>> No.4607293

>>4606636
>the smash community disagrees with you wholeheartedly
That's how I know I'm right

>> No.4607297

>>4606636
>>4606638
>>4607086
>>4607293
The "smash community" didn't exist in 1999. It was fun to play 1vs1 with your friend. Link vs Link was the classic between me and my bro, we were pretty even, but I think I edged him out by a little bit.

>> No.4607301

>>4607083
Depends on your familiarity I guess. I'm just sick of seeing it/hearing it from so many years of exposure.

I liked it back in the day just fine though and I remember being amazed that it was on a cart since it felt to me like it should have been on a few cd-roms.

>> No.4607305
File: 660 KB, 1275x1732, OOTconcept.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4607305

>>4607083
Only one way to find out:
Play it.
Try to set your mind off prejudices and hype, though. Hype can definitely ruin something for you, or at least have a sort of "fake" disappointiment.
If you've played lots of Zeldas before and you like the formula, yes, there is a chance you'll like this game.

>> No.4607338

>>4607083
Have you mostly played 2D or 3D Zelda games?

>> No.4607354

I was so hyped for oot and it let me down. It just felt so lifeless and dull to me. Wind waker i loved the shit out of.

I don't hate oot tho, and it did a lot for early 3d games. Hate the fanbase and the n64 fanbse in general.

>> No.4607362

Played through OoT for the first time like a month ago. I've already pretty much forgotten everything about it. Shows how unremarkable it was. If it wasn't for the fact that it was part of the Legend of Zelda series I doubt anyone would ever talk about it.

>> No.4607454

>>4607083
It definitely depends on your tastes: what you expect from your games and enjoy in them.
If you are into games that don't waste any time like me, then you'd probably find it boring. OoT wastes much more time than 2D Zeldas, though it's more to the point than say TP and some later 3D ones.
Seeing as how you already enjoy Zelda, try it and see for yourself.

>> No.4607480

>>4605185
This is what sony niggers actually believe.

>> No.4607486
File: 217 KB, 1066x600, le contrarian controversial opinion.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4607486

>>4593219
I didn't play the game but I hate It!
How does this game is better ranked by critics than my favourite game?!! arghh!!! fuck nintendo!!!

>> No.4607528

>>4607083
probably not as much as when it was first released. back then it was cutting technology and there were not many games like it.

But its still worth playing, consider trying the 3ds version as it has better graphics and a higher frame rate. It also comes with the master quest which changes things up and ups the difficulty a little.

>> No.4607556

>>4593507
are you retarded? /v/ went through a period where there were like 50 BOTW threads every day arguing over why it is/isn't GOTY. there is also a "TP is the best nu-zelda" sentiment for hipster gamers, and WW has become a celebrated "classic" on that board.

>> No.4607570

>>4605960
there is also a distinct sense of "awe" that is lost on modern players who didn't grow up with NES/SNES/Sega consoles. when you leave midgar and the world opens up, and you've been playing SNES and NES for years, it was one of the last real generational gaps in gaming that i remember feeling like i was seeing a real shift in the way games would be played. where everything since then has looked like an incremental step, ff7 was a leap forward.

replaying it now is tedious, but the circumstances surrounding its release made it feel like being a part of something great. a totally new world of gaming was opening up.

>> No.4607638

>>4607570
>it was one of the last real generational gaps in gaming that i remember feeling like i was seeing a real shift in the way games would be played.
Yes, the start of modern gaming. Things haves stayed pretty much the same since, except worse.
>a leap forward.
Nah, more like a sideways leap.

>> No.4607758

>>4607486
>everybody who doesn't like my middling overhyped game didn't play it
stay on /v/